180 degrees

[Nigella]

Nope this is not the temperature of the oven of a delicious recipe :)

This hypothetical question is aimed at those who are in a relationship where the SO does know, it is a mute point if your SO is unaware of your TGism.

Both sides of a knowing relationship can answer, that is those who know but are in a DADT relationship and those who embrace the duel personality of being TG.

So the question is...

... You come into the house and your SO drops the bombshell, she has done a 180 degree on how she relates to you being TG, that is,

a. She no longer accepts and wants everything gone

or

b. She accepts 100% and wants to embrace fully this new life you both have.

Please don't respond with "this will never happen", you never know, I would like to know how you would respond if it did happen.

[Marcelle]

Hi Nigella,

My wife and I have had this discussion on many occasions as I progress on this journey. She is not blind and can see that I tend to wander down the TG spectrum pathway a little further right of just CDing and I do not hide that from her. She has seen me go from "As far as I know I will never leave the house dressed" to a 40(female)/60(male) split out and about in the world. We also know that should this ever go any further down the road then there might be a tipping point where she will not be able to continue on this journey in our present relationship. Specifically, if I came home one day and said "Dear, I think I want to go 24/7 as a woman" that would be the end of us as husband and wife. Now, I want to qualify this statement with it would not mean the end of our relationship as people just in our current state . . . she is not prepared to enter into a same sex relationship regardless of the plumbing.

So to your question . . . if she suddenly said she cannot abide by what I am doing we both agreed at the beginning, if I could live with giving this up (which I know I cannot) then we would continue. If I could not, then we would go our separate ways because to remain together when one party is miserable would only lead to the end of the relationship over time. In our opinions it is better to part friends than stay together in misery.

Hugs

Isha

[pamela7]

Hi Nigella,

Our present situation being that I have recently "come out", and after some wobbles, I'm fully accepted wherever this leads. so the 180 would be that my SO decides to no longer accept and wants it all gone.

I would feel sad, I would agree to mothball the outer-wear and continue to wear the knickers regardless, that bit is my stopping point, its hidden, no-one else knows. That's one possible reaction. I would probably also argue, debate, insist on counselling and seek a range of mitigating alternatives.

[Michelle (Oz)]

Nigella

I'm in a DADT relationship although I don't need to be too careful hiding and I'm out dressed most week days. By not pushing her to accept my CDing and her not pushing me to stop leaves us in a good place. So I'm not sure what her turning 180 degrees would mean for us.

If it meant that she wanted me to stop and if I didn't she couldn't live with me then my choice would be to separate. But this definitely won't happen!!

So, if she said that she was now accepting, wanted to see me dressed, perhaps go out togther ... pretty easy to give my reaction. While on balance I'd embrace the change in her attitude, there would be some downsides. I have built a femme life with a circle of friends that I wouldn't want to dismantle; my dressing style is shall we say age inappropriate and I'd have to change; and I dress very frequently and wouldn't want to reduce the frequency.

Interesting hypothetical though.

[Maria 60]

My wife has known for almost thirty years and I treat everyday like my first. A women is capable of changing her mind at any moment, so I don't take advantage or don't push to many issues, but always make sure I keep things on the table.

[JuliaM]

As my therapist says, "the cat is out of the bag" which I interpret as no going back. I hid my girl self for years, and came out a year ago. My true happiness lies somewhere between my male and female personas.

That said, if my SO said Julia needs to go, I have prepared myself to leave. At this point life suppressing Julia is worse than losing my wife (and she means everything to me!)

[Shelly Preston]

A) I think this would be shattering and I doubt if I could cope in the long term.

B) This would be much easier to deal with, as its closer to where I am.

[Carole]

Hi Nigella,

In answer to a) This has already happened, although seemingly happy when we discussed it prior to getting married, things changed over time to a point where after 30 years together we are at the point of going our separate ways, somewhat amicably but with occasional bouts of anger on her part, although she is the one instigating the split.

b) As you can see from a this will never happen but if it had I would be on top of the world and do almost anything to repay her.

[mykell]

i would be overwhelmed either way and as its emotional i would most likely become weepy, one way sad if it has to go it would most likely mean i would have to go with it,
the other enthused and overjoyed that i could share my soul with my soulmate !!!!!

[kimdl93]

I've experienced something a bit like a 180 from acceptance to rejection, but in truth it was more like a 90 than a 180. She talked with a gender therapist, we talked and we each made some accommodations. Now I feel we are again on a sustainable heading. Further course corrections are likely as we navigate this journey.

[Teresa]

I would say a) is the most likely outcome, with me pushing to be more open, I've ended up with an ultimatum :-
1) Things stay as they are.
2) I seek counselling and or medication.
3) We sort the house, downsize and make the final decision to stay together or go our separate ways.
4) This option upset some members when I quoted it in a thread in loved ones, so I won't quote it again !

I can't see option b) being offered as much I'd like it to !

At the moment I'm taking option 2 but not as joint counselling, so the outcome may not be too helpful ! I'm working on option 3 as I think it inevitable ! Option 4 been there and nearly succeeded !

[charlenesomeone]

Since it's also DADT for me too, I can't imagine B ever happening.
A is possible, hope not, but having been through one D, you do survive, it
is difficult though. Just no way to do A and stay that way.

[Steph_CD_62]

My wife's attitude towards my dressing changes so much this does not apply to me.

However if she ever wanted everything gone or she would be gone, I would get rid of everything except my panties since that is the only thing she totally accepts.

[Nadine Spirit]

My wife is currently accepting. So... If she said that everything had to go, I would go with it. It's sad but true. Because being transgender for me is not the stuff, but who I am. So for me, I could get rid of everything, but that would not stop me from being TG. So if she said she wanted it all gone, she would be saying she wanted me gone.

[Suzie Petersen]

I went through a).
Maybe not 180 degrees, since she never 100% accepted it, but lets call it 170 degrees or so.

Short'ish version of a very long story:

Told her 2 weeks after we met, years before we married. She was OK with it, although perhaps not thrilled.
We both thought at the time that I could stop if I wanted to. Never had full acceptance so no going out together or casual days at home with me dressed etc. Mostly dressing when she wasn't home or when I was traveling. She would buy me clothes and jewelry now and then which made me think she was actually OK with it. She wasnt, but I really appreciated the effort she made to live with it.
We had kids and she told me that now I needed to stop, as we had agreed! Well, I couldnt. Tried but couldnt.
For years she would make space for me. Take the kids out shopping etc. I would get my fix at home.

Then I developed and grew. I joined a chatroom online and started making friends. Spent too much time online chatting and started meeting up with friends out and about. Went to SCC (TG conference in Atlanta) several times and had a wonderful time. We both realized that I could actually get away with it. I could pass as a woman in the real world without too much trouble. I was building an identity. Even had a few people who only knew me as a woman and didn't know I wasn't..

One day she said stop. This had to end, or else!
She then did something that made me realize that she was serious. I'm not prepared to share that here and now, but it wasn't good. We had reached a point with only 2 options.

My wife and, now grown, children means the world to me and I could not handle loosing them. Their happiness and safety means more to me than my own. So .. I stopped!

I deleted my website, said goodbye to friends on the chatroom, deleted all my pictures and quit a couple of memberships of organisations where Suzie was a member, some CD related, some not.
Overnight, Suzie Petersen seized to exist.

This was in 2008.
Since then, my wife has been acting like it never happened and I am keeping my mouth shut about it. I try hard to not act weird when she shows me clothes she has bought or when the topic comes up on TV or something. Just acting like I have no interest in the topic, being neutral on it.

I am not dressing anymore, except on a rare occasion with a few items, mostly a pair of boots I still have and enjoy wearing now and then. Do I miss it? Certainly I do! Something important died inside of me that day. But I can live with it. Nobody ever promised me a happy life.

I joined this forum just some weeks ago against my better judgement. I am probably not going to stay long, but I wanted to share some of my stories and experiences and possibly help a few others in making sense of it all and in avoiding some of the traps.

So there you have it. I am not really worthy of being a member here, since I am not really a crossdresser anymore. But I used to be!

- Suzie's Ghost

[Beverley Sims]

If a; was to come into the equation after such a long time, I would practice deceit and go underground.

It would not be living a lie or cheating. She already knows.

If b; was in the equation it would be open slather and probably an improvement in marriage even after a long time.

Yep, hypothetical answers here. :)

[UNDERDRESSER]

So, is your question which one of these represents a 180? Or what would I do?

My SO knows, and has done since before we were a couple. She is completely accepting, but not bothered by it, or terribly interested. So, a 180 could be not accepting it, and gives ultimatum to get rid of it, or going the other way and getting enthusiastic?

As to what I would do, well, if she turned against it now, I would just move into the other room and look for a new place to live. If she went the other way, and started showing enthusiastic interest in what I wear..... Oh my, I would be one happy camper!

[Laceytosee]

If she went 180 degrees the answer is a) for me.
She is today and has been since I've known her the true b) person

[2B Natasha]

A- she wants everything gone. It's just stuff and if she rents a big enough truck she can fit all of the furniture and her dresser in it at one time. Sounds crass and hard. But neither of us deserve to live in that relationship. Plus if that where the case. Is it still love? Desire? Or even a partnership at that/this point? Let me add. This would not be an easy ending to a beautiful marriage. But it is the only solution that would leave us both at peace.

B- sounds pretty much like what I have now. If your asking does she want me to live as a female the whole time. Then it would be a long conversation about life and the future.

[ReineD]

I think it's more difficult to have a positive taken away, than have one added. None of us enjoys experiencing loss.

It doesn't surprise me that some members who are in accepting relationships would want to leave if their wives changed their minds. But, thinking one way before an event occurs is not necessarily the way they would follow through once it happens.

As for my part, if my SO changed 180-degrees to want to transition (if I am reading your question right, in reverse), I've no idea how I would react. My thought right now is that like Isha's wife, I would not be able to stay in a same-gender relationship. But, as mentioned this is not an absolute indicator of my reaction should this situation actually occur.

[Jennifer8]

a. She no longer accepts and wants everything gone
b. She accepts 100% and wants to embrace fully this new life you both have.

I wasnt going to reply but it sorta did make me think.... maybe its diff for us because Im trans but maybe not?

Right now she is like 5000% B She cant be any more accepting she is the one who got me to comeout she helped me like every step the way! serious if it wasnt for her i prob wouldnt be here.
she was my only real friend. when we started to get real close and started dating she was dating ME not him cause well he was finally gone. we both pull up with a lot of stuff we both lost friends I really felt bad for her even wondered why shed even ever wanting to be with me?? she told me it didnt matter it didnt matter what people said about us. she didnt care her mom never cared and she said all that mattered was we were both happy. and finally we got married! doesnt mean we stil dont have problems and all but we try to not let it get to us.

Uh A......... IDK? I dont shed ever tell me to stop being me, she knows there no way Id ever go back to being a guy.. I guess maybe if one day she said she didnt want to be with me or you know with a girl and wanted a guy Id be crushed I wouldnt know what to do?? what could I do?? thered be tuff time figuring out who gets what clothes thou lol! but ya i cant see myself not ever not being with her. but if she like ever did say were done id hope wed still be close or friends or something?

[trisha kobichenko]

pretty much the same for me and my SO,
Trish

[SandraB]

A. Unthinkable that this would happen. If it did, I would have to negotiate, but bottom line, I would try to maintain our relationship and promise to give up. However, in my heart of hearts and despite my best efforts, I know I would just go back to secrecy!
B. Utopia. While my wife accepts my cd'ing, she is non-participative so far ... however, I hope to slowly and carefully move the boundaries.

[Nolwenn Elizabeth]

Because of the great relationship I have with my wife, I would drop TG-ism and many other things to maintain that relationship in a second. She fully knows that it is not going to "cross over" and I don't, at this point, want it to. If I did want it it would end our relationship, and that is too great a price for me. This is a private sandbox for me to play in, she knows about it and respects it, but that's all I want. I flat out told her about it because I wanted to be open with her. She is supportive to a point. And I try to reciprocate by doing things for her that she wants/likes. TG-ing could be analogous to Sunday football. Something I do that she doesn't, but I'd gladly give it up because she does so many other things for me and my family.

Winnie :daydreaming:

[2B Natasha]

I think it's more difficult to have a positive taken away, than have one added. None of us enjoys experiencing loss.

It doesn't surprise me that some members who are in accepting relationships would want to leave if their wives changed their minds. But, thinking one way before an event occurs is not necessarily the way they would follow through once it happens.


I can why you would think this way. It only makes sense to try an preserve a relationship. You loved her or him so you married them with every intention of living the rest of your life with them. I would hazard to guess to plan on making them as happy as you could. Here's my issue. I tried this once. It didn't work. I became depressed, sullen, resentful, sexually withdrawn, argumentative, putting everyone around me egg shells and generally becoming a miserable person. All the while destroying her life at the same time. I will never do that again. I told my current wife right from day one. If she could not deal with it now or thought that she couldn't in the future then it had to end. I was bidding this part of me in my home or about my person ever again. So while the romantic ideal is to pack it away and save the marriage. I, and I speak for myself, cannot/will not do that again. Doesn't work.

[DonnaT]

Been married for 39½ years and my wife has done the ±180º turn a number of times.

I've never gotten rid of the clothes, but put them away and tried to stop, but couldn't very long.
The last -180º almost led to separation/divorce, but she came to her senses after a long conversation.
We are now on the +180º side, and dress when I want, with no backlash whatsoever.

[Sarah Beth]

I've been there for real twice with my wife. When she first found out she was naturally devastated but then after awhile went on to become very accepting of it even o the point where she bought be some clothes and we shared a few things and I would dress up and stay dressed on weekends sometimes. The when our kids were in grade school I came home from work one day and she had boxed up all my things told me I had to stop. I tried to talk to her about it but she said it was time to put that aside she was afraid I would get caught.

I did still dress when I had a chance to but never when she was around. Then after about five years or so she told me she knew I had kept my things and that it was ok if I did some dressing up as long the kids weren't around to catch me at it. Then it got back to the point where she would once in awhile suggest I put something on for awhile if I wanted.

The last time she did the about face was about nine months ago when our granddaughter came to stay with us. I came home and she had packed all my things which got stored in the shed. She told I couldn't be doing that while the granddaughter was around.

It is unbelievably hard to go from wearing something every day to wearing nothing. I manage, and sneak into panties and bra sometimes but it just isn't the same.

[Tina_gm]

A is more likely than B for my wife. I would tell her when or if A was to happen that I have tried that myself for 3 decades and I could not make the desires go away. I would attempt to reconcile our relationship in ways in which all evidence of CDing was removed from the house, and there would never be talk of it. I would seek a time and place in which to dress and express myself. If she demanded CDing be gone completely, I would tell her it is time to end us. I gave it my all to end CDing and I can't. Long before her, and when we first got together. I could never make it go away, and I know at some point I would cave.

[Laura912]

My wife is accepting and encouraging so the question becomes similar to those in Advanced English Literature where one was required to guess what the author was thinking so we could have a good discussion. It is very difficult to imagine her doing a 180. (Us pilots understand the term.) If she really did a 180, I would get rid of everything. Then I would accumulate a secrete stash. The cross dressing will never go away and I do not want her to go either. Should the secrete stash be discovered and she says bye, then I gambled and lost.

[Suzie Petersen]

SheerJoy: That was a sad account :( Feeling sorry for you.

Hugs
Suzie