Middle aged, married, white male

[Katie Russell]

Hi

This is purely observational but it does seem that the majority of members hear fit this demographic.

Is it because this is the typical profile of a crossdresser or is it because we feel comfortable in this little tribe? I suspect that there are other forums out there - I haven't really explored as I feel comfortable hear - which offer a different view / interest. Has anyone experience other forums with different demographic or are they all the same?

The stats at the bottom of the home page say 28,000 member and 5,000 active. It would be interesting to know how many browsers there are out there to see if we can gauge some idea of how many crossdressers there are out there. If we added together all the different sites would that be more representative?

Just a few musings for a Monday morning.

Katie

[Lacey New]

I fit the same demographic, married, middle aged white male, college educated with a good income. And I too have been curious about how many of us there really are. I have read estimates of as high as three percent. However sometimes I doubt that. If one lived in a modestly sized city of 200,000, then there would theoretically 6,000 of us. More than the active role of this site. But since the reach of this site is obviously international, our population pool is huge. So, if the percentage of men who crossdress is 3%, it seems as if our active membership should be something greater. Could the estimates be wrong!?

[SandraB]

I fit this profile in line with your observations. I only recently joined the site as I've only just come to fully accept myself as a cd (having struggled with it since my teens). Having reached this point, I came out to my wife and to my delight she is accepting of this (though I wouldn't say over enthusiastic about it so far). I've not any experience of other forums so can't say how different forums may compare. I know the stats vary widely on how many cross dressers there are out there and it is almost impossible to determine as it is kept very much an activity in the closet. I wouldn't even admit to myself for a long time that this is who I am! If cd'ing were largely accepted by society as a normal activity, I would think the number of cd'ers would be a sizeable proportion. After all, we all have some level of both female and male hormones and society has a huge affect on how we try to identify ourselves as either black or white (male or female) with nothing in between. However when you get down to it we are all different shades of grey.

[alwayshave]

Other than not being married, I'm in a long term relationship with a woman, I'm white and middle aged. Who knows whether that's typical. My feeling is that CDers of my age group come here for support that they did not have growing up and that younger CDers do not require as much as they grow up in more accepting society. I know that a lot of younger CDers are on tumblr, where its more about posting pictures.

[scarletcd]

Much like in real life I've found that certain demographics end up frequenting different forums or spaces. There are a number of places that maybe cater for different types of demographics.

[Leighcdmd]

I think the described demographic is highly representative. I am in my 60s and have been dressing ( secretly or otherwise) as long as I can remember. Since the dawn of the Internet and the realization that I was not alone in the world, I have had the opportunity to meet numerous other CDs in person. Yep...almost entirely white, mostly seemingly successful, middle aged males.

[il.dso]

Very interesting observation and probably accurate.
Not sure what to conclude from it but definitely worth noting.

[Candice Mae]

Other than not being married, I'm in a long term relationship with a woman, I'm white and middle aged. Who knows whether that's typical. My feeling is that CDers of my age group come here for support that they did not have growing up and that younger CDers do not require as much as they grow up in more accepting society. I know that a lot of younger CDers are on tumblr, where its more about posting pictures.

I call bs on that, you just think society is more accepting because you have a broader social network due to technology. People today are more accepting of gay/lesbians and transsexuals, but as for CDs it's still something that is frowned upon. Do we not still hear about SOs leaving and parents disowning ther children because of CDing? People or still people nothing has really changed that much, if you were growing up today you would still feel the same pressures on you as you did back in your real childhood.

I've lost count on how may times I've been told "oh I'm glad you not some ........ Cross dresser" when I explain to people who I am.

[Rachael Leigh]

Yes I fit into that demographic and there does seem to be a lot of us here. Acceptance is really not as much as some would like it really depends on where we all live

[Katey888]

You know how much I like messing with statistics on this forum... ;)

I did some analysis on Intro posts from new members and also on active members posts and length of marriage (which gives you a nod towards estimating age) - here's what I found...

Marital/ Relationship status: 68% married/SO
Average length of marriage/ relationship (from members sharing): 28.4 years (highest noted 50 years.. Blue... :)) - guess at an average age of early 50s on that premise

Sorry - have no ethnicity figures but that's easy for everyone to work out... ;)

And yes, predominantly male... :lol:

Katie - you could spend a long time looking at the other sites out there - I look forward to seeing the results of your survey but to get you started and to give you a flavour... I've only found and registered with one other site (and I have minimal activity there for reasons that will become apparent, but not to be judgmental...) in the UK - that's TVChix - which is an unapologetic dating site for CD/TV/TG folk. Here's a summary of how it looks...

A quick proximity search there comes back with about 600 members in a 12-15 mile radius of my location.
A rough count shows a split of about 60/40 CDs/ Admirers
Of the CDs, a fraction are only there for chatting, not dating - perhaps 10% out of the 60%
The 40% Admirers are clearly there for dating... plus...

I know of only a handful of our members here who are even in this part of the country, and only a couple that are within 12-15 mile - but there are 300 girls on TVChix (maybe not all active) and I'm betting most wouldn't have the patience with the sort of discussions we have here...

Does cd.com attract similar folk to the established membership? Of course - that's reflected by the fact that guests can view our MtF discussions here openly (not so on other sites) and see what they're getting into before they join. Are any of the 300 I mentioned above likely to join? Not many - I know of one girl here other than me who's on that site, and she's not a very active member here.

This is why I believe we represent such a niche in the CD/TG world here - and perhaps why the rest of society has such a skewed view of the CD/TG world once you're prepared to open your eyes and your mind to what happens out there, beyond this place... :thinking:

Katey x

[Katie Russell]

Thanks for your insight Katey.

I did a quick look an only found another couple of sites with around 1,000 members each. If we are to believe that 3% of the male population CD then the membership of this and other sites isn't high when you consider it is global. Maybe the subject matter of many posts don't appeal to younger, single CD and hence we find ourselves talking with other middle aged, married, white males :D.

I know the saying about 'birds of a feather ....' which may explain the membership but it does't explain the lack of other alternative sites.

Maybe it's just part of the CD journey and you find yourself needing to talk when you hit middle age!

Katie

[Khora]

I'm white, 32 (not middle aged yet! :angry:) and never married. Where do I fit in?

[JustChris]

I believe that this site (or at least this subforum) seems to attract that demographic based on some of the rules that the mods have put in place.

If you look at something like crossdressing on reddit, it's mostly pictures and not much of the support that you find here. This site seems much better for actual conversations as opposed to the "hey look at me" posts that other sites seem to have.

I don't really think the 3% is really an unreasonable number if you think of it in the whole "spectrum" that ranges from just wearing underwear, to going out presenting as a female.

[Lily Catherine]

As one of the younger members of this thread, I must admit that Tumblr is one of the more visually-oriented platforms that my generation openly embraces, though unfortunately as far as cross-dressing goes, they tend to be more lewd and directly open to the point of exposing genitalia on purpose. I couldn't make this up if I tried; though their intention is certainly to flaunt the gender duality, rather than to hide it as some of us try to do.

I reckon access and intention to access are the key factors that determine the demographics here. Compared to visual platforms (Tumblr / Instagram / Reddit etc.), the forum layout as it is definitely promotes discussion rather than visuals that clamour for attention (not an inherently bad thing). Talking (writing?) definitely feels much more cathartic and brings discussion to a much higher level than mere images. A picture can well paint a thousand words, but these 1000 words will vary with each individual.

(For the record, as of time of publication, I'm considered young, single, ethnic Chinese male, and this is the only site I have signed up for after searching for motivations / reasons for cross-dressing.)

That already being said, there have to be many more unseen ones unwilling to risk the stigma out there (before I joined the forum, I hesitated because of said stigma). Especially in Singapore, we're a pretty visible minority, but are most likely lone wolves what with everyone's not-in-my-bloody-backyard attitude in the face of infrequent cross-dressing on television. Only a few with little perceived loss would actually sign up I guess.

[Beverley Sims]

This forum is probably a too staid forum and does not relate to the more adventurous activities of younger people.

There is a perception of more adventure and dialogue related to younger members out there even if you are living on the edge when out there.

Some prefer the risky, not risque, side of living.

[Katey888]

I'm white, 32 (not middle aged yet! :angry:) and never married. Where do I fit in?

Kristina - you are our future... and probably fit in smaller sizes than most of us... :D

Katey x

[stacey.eyes]

Interesting conversation, and want to contribute one more data point to it: In the Washington, D.C. area, there are at least two or three meetup groups for TS/CD girls. One I'm in has more than 500 members, but to my knowledge fewer than a dozen of them are also members of this forum. So that suggests that there are quite a few out there who are active and who get out, who aren't looking for the kind of online support that CD.com provides.

[Sarah Doepner]

I'm past middle age and I'm widowed, but when I joined my wife was alive and I was much closer to mid-life. Why here? The members of this forum have demonstrated a willingness to address our questions with respect and considerable thought. The Mods have been pretty consistent over the years and discussion can come from a wide range of perspectives, including the full range of TG people and both approving and disapproving S.O.s. I'm not sure what younger CDs are looking for, but for the mid-life generation, there have been fewer options for this type of support than may exist for a younger crowd.

[Seana Summer]

I kinda fit the profile. However I suspect this type of chat board is more attractive to middle age folks than to the younger crowd. I bet a good number of lurkers are the older generation who are not comfortable enough with computers to post.

[Jaymees22]

Middle aged, married, white male, drives

A) a Buick?

B) a Ford F 150?

C) his wife crazy?

Hugs Jaymee

[Jenniferbabe]

Not quite middle age yet but getting there. Married, straight, white and with children would describe me.

[Welshgirl]

I know that this is slightly off topic for the OP, but I do have an age-related observation. Some people have suggested that younger CDers probably frequent tumblr and other such sites. Others have commented that it is the middle aged and older members who join sites such as this, because they need the support.

My observation is that younger people may not need much support at all, because they do not have the same level of problems with the whole idea of cross dressing that we 'older' people do. So far I only have a statistical sample of 6 late teens/ early 20s, but all of these are our kids and their friends and they have uniformly not so much as batted an eyelid when Pamela told them about the cross dressing. They have just taken the whole thing in their stride, and it is clearly unimportant and unexceptional to them. I was far more worried about them knowing than I needed to be.

[Annaliese]

Not at all, this is the most diverse group I have ever been with, love it.

[Julie Denier]

Middle-aged married white male -- I guess that's me. Is 42 middle-aged? Jeesh ...

[Leslie Langford]

Interesting, but when it comes to transsexual ladies - or at least the ones who are in the forefront these days championing the cause of the transgender community through their high visibility in the media - it is Hispanic ladies or ladies of color such as Laverne Cox, Janet Mock, Isis King, Carmen Carrera, Geena Rocera, Lea T - and even the indomitable RuPaul - who are doing the heavy lifting.

Not just that, but when one looks at the prevalence of hate crimes involving transphobia, it is also that same demographic which seems to be grossly over-represented in the assault and murder statistics. Curious...

[Khora]

Kristina - you are our future...

We're DOOMED... :eek:

[AngelaYVR]

The observation is based on who participates in the forums and not the vastly bigger number who just reads them.

[mykell]

would be honored to be considered middle aged,
but from what i found in my state from those i reached out too we represent a good variety of the populace, but we have some diversity....

my angst here is the sheer number of folks that i welcome that we never here from or see posting after the initial intro....im sure some are better suited to other sites...
and for obvious reasons the initial 10 post rule keeps creeps away but iv felt that those who have their instant messaging and sharing tied to all their devices get spooked when the CD.com e-mails start popping up and folks bail right away (i once started a thread about this)....I wondered how many get outed that way....

[flatlander_48]

LL:

Interesting observation and a couple of things come to mind. One is that while there are F2M activists out there, they don't seem to have the same degree of notoriety. Possible exception being Chaz Bono.

The second is that while, in general, transwomen are overrepresented regarding having violence visited upon them, they are underreported in terms of the media attention. The overrepresentation is painfully obvious when you look at the roll call for the Transgender Day of Remembrance.

Anyway, back to the original premise...

No, not quite the same demographic:
Far side of middle aged, married (2x), bisexual Black male

66 as of the end of last year, 1st marriage was 30 years - 2nd will be 10 years in a few months, 2 grown children, 2 grandchildren

In terms of occupation, mechanical engineer closing in of 43 years. Lived in Taiwan for 6 years, worked in Korea for a couple of months, have worked with people from 21 different countries, have visited 7 countries plus Hong Kong (excluding Canada and Mexico) and extended domestic assignments in California, North Carolina, Kentucky, Maine, Texas and Illinois.

So, in some ways similar and in others, very different...

DeeAnn

[Lorileah]

:thinking: I used to be all that when I joined. Now I am over the hill, female and widowed. Still Caucasian (haven't been white in years).

[flatlander_48]

:thinking: I used to be all that when I joined. Now I am over the hill, female and widowed. Still Caucasian (haven't been white in years).

Yeah, but that was just the makeup...

DeeAnn

[justmetoo]

Other than being single I guess I fit the thread title. :P

[alwayshave]

I call bs on that, you just think society is more accepting because you have a broader social network due to technology.

You can call BS if you like, however in the late 60s when I was in grade school, it was a crime for a man to dress up like a women. So, I do believe that society is more accepting. Maybe not to the degree that you would like, but it does not mean it is not more accepting.

[Christispanties]

I am fairly new to this board, mid 40's white married.ostly just dress in private, my SO is supportive but doesn't participate. I belong to another forum with 3,000 members, I would say about 300-500 active members.
I haven't posted much here but have begun to read more, many here are far advanced than I am but there is much here for me to learn and explore, and know that I am not alone :-)

[flatlander_48]

You can call BS if you like, however in the late 60s when I was in grade school, it was a crime for a man to dress up like a women. So, I do believe that society is more accepting. Maybe not to the degree that you would like, but it does not mean it is not more accepting.

In New York State the law used to be that you had to wear at least 3 articles of clothing consistent with your sex at birth. Back in the Stonewall days, it was the excuse used for rousting crossdressers and drag queens...

DeeAnn

[Khora]

In New York State the law used to be that you had to wear at least 3 articles of clothing consistent with your sex at birth. Back in the Stonewall days, it was the excuse used for rousting crossdressers and drag queens...

DeeAnn


You can call BS if you like, however in the late 60s when I was in grade school, it was a crime for a man to dress up like a women. So, I do believe that society is more accepting. Maybe not to the degree that you would like, but it does not mean it is not more accepting.

This is absolutely ridiculous. LAWS governing what we can and cannot wear? Sorry, I just get into full Kristina Rage Mode when I hear about stuff like this. :angry::angry::angry:

[Jenniferathome]

that describes most serial killers, doesn't it?

[Anna Stouf]

I bet a good number of lurkers are the older generation who are not comfortable enough with computers to post.

This might be a good point. I am 70 yrs old and I don't believe any of my friends who are my age (OK maybe one) know anything about computers. Most don't even know how to turn one on and off. And they don't seem to have any interest in learning. I think it's sad. I'm enthusiastic and learn new things every day. I would not have had such a good career if I wasn't positive and enthusiastic. I actually became good enough to "out computer" some of the younger guys.

To complete the demographic, I'm 70, single (3 divorces), been CDng for 50 yrs, and looking forward to many more. Heck, I even believe that I will have one more SO in my life, if I can find someone who wants me the way I am - cuz I'll never stop being who I really am.

Anna

[Christen]

I think the younger, singles are out partying so late that they're too tired to muck around here. :)

[Diane Smith]

Guess what -- white, middle aged male also describes the general population of online forum users, regardless of the subject matter. I've been doing this for almost 40 years now, starting with relatively closed mainframe messaging systems, and it hasn't changed much since then. We could just as well be gabbing about golf or Led Zeppelin. My guess is that we may be a slightly older crowd than the average, but not by any huge amount.

- Diane

[Gillian Gigs]

If the demographics, guilty as charged.
This makes me wonder if the younger crowd are using facebook and twitter more than us in the older generation. The fabric of the social network has changed and old habits die hard.

[flatlander_48]

This is absolutely ridiculous. LAWS governing what we can and cannot wear? Sorry, I just get into full Kristina Rage Mode when I hear about stuff like this. :angry::angry::angry:

I don't know when the law was changed, but it is no longer the case in NYS.

DeeAnn

[meganmartin]

I will give you my opinion based on observation and have no data to back up my statement.
Just from my discussions with a diverse number of people in the trans-gender community this is what I have determined.

Although the majority of us who are middle age crossdressers knew this about ourselves very early on.
This is what I found to be consistent.

1. During your teens your finding yourself trying to figure out adulthood, gender discovery is not really on the front burner.
2. In your 20s your dating and seeking that mate, working on the foundation of college or carrer.
3. The 30s your either really engaged in your family life raising a family or nurturing your work.
4 Sometimes between 35-45 you get the sense its finally time to revisit this gender thing and it really is nagging you there is more to you than just a guy.

I think in a nutshell all the distractions are removed and your mature enough to explore there is more to this than meets the eye. As you search you find a group such as this and discover your not alone. It opens your eyes to find the complete you.

That is my 2 cents

[Kate Simmons]

I'm wondering why we always feel the need to "pigeon hole" ourselves. :)

[sometimes_miss]

. So, if the percentage of men who crossdress is 3%, it seems as if our active membership should be something greater. Could the estimates be wrong!?
You're assuming that every crossdresser has a need to write about it. One night at work I asked the people there how many participated in online discussion forums. No one knew what I was talking about. They knew about facebook, sure. But no one had ever heard of discussion forums on the net. And how many here even know of something called the usenet or newsgroups (same thing)? Probably only IT folks, and the younger ones have probably only heard about it, never gone on them. I now know ONE person at work that does, but she's a former IT person.
Also, a great many of us were probably ashamed of our crossdressing, even after we found out that other guys do it. That too will prevent them from participating.

[susan54]

White, 60 and currently single. I used to be on another Forum but no longer log in and occasionally lurk. I don't know why I am even here, a much nicer Forum, as I seem to have little in common with most members. I am heterosexual, never think of myself as a woman, and get no 'excitement' from dressing up, so a lot of the posts pass me by. I go out regularly with confidence, I have lots of clothes that work wonderfully for me - and which I try on happily as man or woman, am happy with how I look (which is good) but I do not pass at close quarters. I do not have problems with my cross-dressing or need advice, and when(as an old hat at this) I give advice, it tends to close down the thread. I suspect the Forum is not for people like me, but for some reason I persist.

[flatlander_48]

And how many here even know of something called the usenet or newsgroups (same thing)? Probably only IT folks, and the younger ones have probably only heard about it, never gone on them.

Not true. While I knew of usenet and newsgroups back in the day, I didn't have a computer at the time. And, while I was never a part of an IT group, I did do computer programming and simulation programming for several years. I was part of a control systems group at the time.

However, I do remember hauling a Lear-Siegler ADM-3A terminal and a 1200 baud modem home over Christmas one year in order to play D&D on Compuserve. How's that for trivia?

DeeAnn

[AprilMayy<3]

Single, male, 19? One of the youngest here I would assume?

As far as growing up in a "more accepting society", I would disagree. I started dressing at 8 years old(at that age, it's not 'dressing' as much as putting on bras and panties, it's all the same and all leads to where I am now), so I've done this for at least 10 years. I feel no where near accepted. I have few friends who are ok with discussing it with me, and my mom and sister are both on a DADT basis for the most part. Half my family doesn't know and would flip if they found out. Lets pray the trash bag in the hamper does the trick for a little while longer(On a side note, I was looking for the 'praying' emoji, :p)

Though I do feel as if I am in the minority of this forum, lol.

[Katie Russell]

Thanks for all the replies.

My thread was purely as an observation and was not meant to 'pigeon hole' or exclude anyone from our group. I think it's great that there are members who don't fit the description - the more the merrier.

I agree that it is probably a minority of CDers who actually use a forum. There don't appear to be anymore out there with the same perspective as this one and I can understand that the rules here prevent some people wanting to join.

In an example given of a group of 500 'out of the closet' CDers only 12 were members. That a little over 2%. I would imagine that CDers who attend meetings are again a minority so if you start extrapolating the facts you might even get to the 3% of the population who CD!

I just wonder if joining a forum such as this is just part of the journey alluded to by another poster. It's nice to feel part of a community, we as human beings need to fell part of a group and belonging here makes me feel a little bit more normal. I've made some good friends and hope to meet up with a few in the future. It's all part of growing as a person and experiencing new things.

Katie

[ange_o]

Well I fit your demographic if you switch married for long term (not outed) relationship. And I had been lurking this forum for years learning what I could about why others do what I do before I actually signed up, which I did because I had finally realised I wanted to share and in part get some form of acceptance for what I do.

[mykell]

hi april,
i think when you here us say society is more accepting with this we as the elder CDs would never have posted on a platform like this ever at 19yrs old....and as it has been said the young seem to use the visual forms of media to share with one another, flicker ect...some folks have two facebooks, one for each, and what i see in general when greeting folks here the young ones are so connected with theyre devices that when the cd.com e-mails are sent and shared with those devices they accidentally out themselves before they are prepared to too friends and family....

i think that 5 or 10 yrs from now as you establish a family and career you will more understand our comments of acceptance, what 19 yr old does not have some angst for what is ahead in life.....
hope that made sense....

[flatlander_48]

One important thing to include is that the majority of us are coming from a distinct disadvantage. Females have decades of head start in the mechanics of living. They have had mothers, aunts, grandmothers and older sisters to learn from and to emulate. This information is absorbed over an extended period of time. This means that there is a lot of time for trial and error. M2F crossdressers don't have that luxury and that makes our learning curve very steep. Being able to share and trade information here is very useful.

DeeAnn

[Alice Torn]

I have always been a square peg in a round hole. When i got on here, i was very surprised to see the vast majority are married, with families. I thought most would be poor single isolated loners like me.

[flatlander_48]

AT:

Yes, funny how that works. Going in, I thought that the majority of us were gay or bisexual like me. As Holly Near sang: "Imagine My Surprise..."

DeeAnn

[CountessVF]

I fit that description. 34, white, married. I remember hearing theories that those that have power, status, and success seek submission more often in the bedroom or when fetish is concerned. And the demographic we've described certainly fits the bill more than some ages and ethnicities.

[TinaZ]

I'm a 19-year-old Chinese woman.

[Kristy 56]

I too fall into the demographic. Early 60's now,and remember those tough days for a CD before the internet.

[Raquel Maire]

Same boat Late forties and closeted. Have been all my life but glad there is a site like this.

Thanks
Raquel M