Does this help?

[ophelia]

I am a crossdresser. I am not transgender.
I see crossdressing as a choice of style.
Although I concede that transgenders also crossdress, I see transgender as a style of life.

[2B Natasha]

Nope. Not at all. Transgender folk be they MTF or FTM are not presented with a choice. For some its do it or die. For others its a life of self loathing and depression. So no not doesn't help a bit really.

[Taylor186]

I agree with Natasha. Crossdressing may be a fashion choice for you, but for me it is not. I have been inexplicably compelled to crossdress from an early age. I believe my experience is true for many here from what I have read. While I can choose not to physically crossdress the desire is always there.

As for transgender being a style of life, I would say it depends on what you really mean. Some would say being a motorcyclist is a style of life. I wouldn't describe being transgender in that way.

[Beverley Sims]

For someone transgendered, it is not a clothing choice, but a necessity.

[Nadine Spirit]

I will still argue, and probably always will, that what many describe as transgender is actually more accurately described as transsexual. Those who are TS and those who are CD are both under the TG umbrella.

If we cannot agree on a set of definitions then how do we speak about things? As in - You know those long yellow things you buy in the fruit section of the store, you peel them and then eat the white flesh inside, oh you mean bananas? No, not bananas, I call them yellows. Well, they are called bananas. No, not to me, I call them yellows.

You can define things anyway you want, it does not mean the rest of the world will accept your definition.

Will we always go round and round about this TG vs TS vs CD vs A manly man who just likes to wear a nightie to bed?

Yup, probably.

[Stephanie47]

Before I found this site my definitions were:

1. A cross dresser wore the clothes of the opposite gender.

2. Transgender meant the person was "trapped" in the body of the opposite sex: the physical body and mind were opposite each other.

I think society's definitions are: transgender = transsexual

If a person were to ask me how I characterize myself I will still say I am a cross dresser and I am not transgendered. I understand the scope of the definition of "transgender" on this website, but, that is not what the uninitiated holds to as definitions.

[pamela7]

i just had a serious business meeting with a very influential/wealthy/connected person, and I was dressed en-femme, but subtly-ish (jeggings, knee-length boots, t-shirt and bright blue fleece), she was admiring, looking me up and down, and we really connected, and yet she did not say a word nor ask, i think it made me more interesting and curious to know. Being the "man-in-a-dress" / "man in female clothing" I am simply dressed in clothing normally associated with females, however, presenting as a male.

PS after the meeting we went shopping together, and I can honestly say no-one's ever asked me to do that before!

It is for me a matter of style yes Ophelia, but definitely I see its not a choice for many of us.

[audreyinalbany]

Alright, although I'm hesitant to even enter this discussion, I'll go ahead and throw this out:

gender |ˈjendər|
noun
1. the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones): traditional concepts of gender | [ as modifier ] : gender roles.

So, in this sense (i.e. 'social and cultural differences rather than biological) we are all transGENDER; I (personally) would reserve the transSEXUAL appellation to those who
self-identify as the sex that differs from their biological one.

That having been said, none of this linguistic double talk really 'helps'. We are all what we are and the sooner we just accept that and move on, the better.

[Nadine Spirit]

I understand the scope of the definition of "transgender" on this website, but, that is not what the uninitiated holds to as definitions.

From my experience the public says:

crossdresser = sexual fetish

[AllieSF]

This getting to be an age old debate here. I sometimes think that those that bring it up constantly seem to not want to be associated with one or more parts of the spectrum that TG represents. We used to have a lot of people here that would categorically state in a lot of their posts that they were not gay, as if to not state it meant that they could be associated with gays or as being gay, as being an undesirable person, i.e. a negative statement?? I think it may somehow be related to some type of phobia, from homophobia to transphobia, not so much in the hate aspects, but in the "No way, Not Me" type, as in it associates me with a lesser type of person.

As this site tries to use the terminology "Transgender" and "TG" are the umbrella terms from panty wearers to post op and transitioned TS. The naysayers have a lot of reasons, some very reasonable, why not to use them. As stated by someone above, having a standard definition helps in communicating who and what we are to others not under the umbrella, thus helping to promote our overall cause of being accepted as real and normal and good human beings. Is the term accurate and the only good one? Probably not, but for now it seems to work quite well except for these types of threads and the occasional denial post stating "I am a Crossdresser not a Transgender". Believe and use what you want. But do not expect total acceptance of your point of view here.

So, in answer to your question, No it does not help, except for to further divide a very loose group of like minded individuals.

[Annaliese]

I do not see either as a choice, or a life style. This is who we are no choice at all. We may stop dressing we may choice to not transition. That does not change anything does not change who we are. It in the DNA

[CONSUELO]

This is a long standing and probably stale discussion but one we are almost forced to respond to. I don't find my desire to cross dress is a style issue. It is a deep desire to look and feel as close to being female as possible without actually changing my genitalia. Why is this? I have no good answer and being so close to the issue I doubt if I would ever have the objectivity to figure out the why's.

Somewhere out there is a psychologist/psychiatrist/sociologist/scientist of some stripe or other, who is hopefully making use of the best and most modern data to find an answer. Maybe?

[kimdl93]

No, you're choosing to redefine a term to suit your preferences. But peel back the skin of that supposed 'choice of style' and you find that it's again simply a manifestation of the many, many faces of transgendered people.

[TinaZ]

Here's GLAAD's reference guide, with which I agree.

http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

Bottom line, if you say, "I'm a crossdresser," that is a noun and a state of being, and that state of being is not 100 percent male, because at some point you present female (totally or partially). Thus, that is transgender.

Also an important point, avoid putting "ed" at the end of "transgender." You are male, or female, or transgender. You haven't been "maled" or "femaled," so you can't be "transgendered."

[Anna Stouf]

I agree with Tina. Transgender is an umbrella term that covers several specific sub-groups. And I think we should go by the definitions set out by GLAAD.

Thanks Tina.

Also I have been a Crossdresser since 1968, not because it is a clothing choice, but because it is who I am. I was born that way and if I didn't live that way, my stress levels would be unbearable. I have my own understanding of why that is, but that's for another post at another time. I don't want to hijack this one.

Anna

[docrobbysherry]

I've been dressing for 17 years and it took 10+ for me to figure THAT out.

As far as saying that CDing is a choice? I'd say that the individual who says THAT is either lying or very lucky.:straightface:

For me, it is a compulsion. The only one I've run up against in my 70 years!:brolleyes:

[Rachelakld]

Sometimes I wear drab
Sometimes I crossdress
Sometimes my brain switches in to girl mode, while body and clothes are still in drab
Sometimes my brain and looks are both feminine
Sometimes (aka often) I like the idea of bedding a girl
Sometimes, if that girl is already in bed with someone else, I would like to join both/all of them (never yet happened and unlikely to ever happen)

Don't bother giving me a label, I'm quite happy being me, but if I get a choice, I'd be 6ft 3 quarterback with a flock of cheerleaders after me :)

[donnalee]

Me thinks thow dost protest too much.

[Rianna Humble]

Ophelia, from your wording, you appear to be excluding transsexuals from your private definition of transgender (whatever that definition may be), but I can assure you that people who have finally accepted that they are transsexual do not cross-dress.

In any conversation it is helpful if all parties use the same definition for key words. the definitions used on this site have been established for a long time.

As many members have already mentioned, the convention on this site are that Transgender is used as an umbrella term for everyone who crosses the gender norms, be they cross-dresser, gender fluid, bi-gender or transsexual.

I accept that a small minority of people who cross-dress may do so purely for fashion reasons, but for the great majority of cross-dressers (certainly on tese forums) this is not a lifestyle choice it is a deep seated need.

[sometimes_miss]

Transgender is a noun, not a verb. It's not what you do, it's what you are, and it's not something you can usually choose to be, you either are, or are not. There are some people, who can go from one side of the middle of our gender spectrum to the other, just as there are bisexuals who like both but at any given time may prefer one over the other. It's a big varied world out there.

[Adriana Moretti]

If it helps YOU feel better about yourself or your crossdressing situation and it helps you better understand things ...good....your the only one who's opinion really matters anyway........ you do you....

[prene]

I think Adriana said it the best.
I have not idea what I am, when I think I know things seem to change.
I love to dress and have purged before but always come back.
I am not totally unhappy with being born male, but like 99% of the people I would love to be a 100% girl for a time.
In my mind would I be unhappy/happy if i was a female. I think happy.

I guess I am like Rachelakld also.

[Marcelle]

Arrg . . . labels again . . . where is my soup can :)

Sorry Ophelia . . . not hacking you just being silly. Seriously though, if the definition works for you that is all that matters as we will never truly agree on a definition because this is way to complex to fit into a neat category. I truly believe that when I am out in the Vanilla world strangers naturally assume I am TS (transitioning) . . . not that anyone asks. My friends I have spent a lot of time educating but for some telling them I cross dress is the easiest explanation as they get that on a fundamental level while others can grasp the complexity of my 40/60 split (will never transition) explanation. However, if someone were to ask "what I was" I would be more inclined to reply "a human being" :battingeyelashes:

Hugs

Isha

[MsVal]

[Program note]
Threads such as this, while routine and predictable to many are very helpful to those who are new to the forum,

Best wishes
MsVal

[Katey888]

Threads such as this, while routine and predictable to many are very helpful to those who are new to the forum...

:eek: Ms Val! Are we boring you... again...??? :lol:

You're right though - it helps to settle anyone new to these discussions into what is normally held to be the majority or professionally accepted definitions... and it sure as heck is important that we do all understand what is meant because if I say potato and I'm thinking of an apple, it's surely going to be confusing for everyone. So....


I am a crossdresser. I am not transgender.
I see crossdressing as a choice of style.
Although I concede that transgenders also crossdress, I see transgender as a style of life.

I am a crossdresser. I am transgender.
I see crossdressing as a necessary symptom of being transgender. I don't believe it is a choice for anyone but fetish crossdressers, but we can (and generally do) all choose our own style. ;)
Transgender folk do certainly crossdress - but it is not a style of life or lifestyle - it is a need that is driven by a condition. I would say that fetish crossdressing is more a style of life compared with transgender crossdressing which is driven by a different motivation, although I personally believe they are intimately connected.

Transgender crossdressing for me is about portraying and expressing an image, persona or presentation that is at odds with your defined birth gender and allows you to feel a state of contentment and correctness that would not normally be the same for cisgender males. It is not necessarily a full-time role, but may be represented by a range of frequencies and duration.

And I think we should all stick with the definitions that are noted on the forum here: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?162497-Some-Common-Trans-Related-Definitions-and-Abbreviations otherwise things may get more confusing than they sometimes already are... :D

Katey x

[Tina_gm]

I have been to a gender therapist and their professional definition of transgender is that it is a spectrum which includes any actions, thoughts or desires which are of the opposite of a persons birth gender. With exception to someone doing those for reasons other than personal satisfaction, gratification or relaxation.

So, transgender (which is a noun) fits me as the description given by a professional gender therapist. I have no problem with it, as far as a description anyway.

I crossdress, but why? because I am feminine. I have thoughts, desires and emotions along with actions such as dressing which are of the opposite sex. That makes me transgender according to the professional. I do not identify as a transexual however. There are times, sometimes more than others I desire to look as a woman, perhaps even be a woman. But I do not identify as a woman, and my desires I have do not become so strong that I have chosen to make any permanent changes which align my femininity to my male body. I am somewhere within the middle between a man and woman, or perhaps I am both internally a man and a woman, or just a feminine man who likes t wear women's clothing and other likes that are more typical of women then men.

I do see that the media especially has taken on transgender to be only those who identify as the opposite sex and are transitioning or planning to. They too are also transgender, according to the professional, as transgender is a wide spectrum. But I personally feel that transgender covers just about any cross gender internal feeling or action taken because of it.

Many who CD "chose" to not CD for sometimes decades. The same goes for many who are TS, who fought not being so for sometimes decades. They chose not to express themselves as they wanted to, or who they felt they really were, it was a choice, and now CDers and TS who are dressing or transitioning are choosing to do that to be happier, or free etc etc. The only thing that is truly not a choice is the desires feelings and emotions that are that of the opposite sex. Whatever we do or don't do about it is ultimately a choice.

[ReluctantDebutant]

Much of this has to do with how one identifies oneself. I have been told many times that being transgender means identifying with the sex not of your birth. I was born male, I identify myself as male. I am not transgender.

But RD you cross-dress that is transgender.

So wearing women's clothing from time to time changes my gender identity? How? Who says? Yes I do it for fun, I do it to fill a need deep inside. But how does it change who I am, my identity? I dress in chainmail and period clothes when I go to the renaissance festival for enjoyment. Does that make me transtemporal? In my movie quality Starfleet uniform at Trek Cons. Do I become transrealities?

from Wikipedia:
Of, relating to, or designating a person whose identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender roles, but combines or moves between these."[2]

-I feel like myself in a dress or in a suit my identity does not change.

"People who were assigned a sex, usually at birth and based on their genitals, but who feel that this is a false or incomplete description of themselves."[3]

-I was born male and I am quite ok with that description

"Non-identification with, or non-presentation as, the sex (and assumed gender) one was assigned at birth."[4]

-So only when I dress en femme I am transgender? I become cisgender again when I take off the female clothing? Sounds confusing. Sounds too temporary a state to have any real meaning.


P.S.
I think CDing is under the TG umbrella simply because no one knows were to put it. I get that. I just don't see it as being very accurate which is why these sort of grumbling come up.

[Barbara Black]

I liked TinaZ's quote: avoid putting "ed" at the end of "transgender." You are male, or female, or transgender. You haven't been "maled" or "femaled," so you can't be "transgendered." It will help to remember not to do that. I don't talk to any CDs except on this forum, but it is hard to remember how to speak properly or correctly sometimes.

[Katey888]

Actually, this point has come up before and I haven't chipped in - so forgive me Barbara, Lexi and GM, but you've reminded me that others have also previously communicated this perspective on 'transgender' (and as we're talking definitions here..)

The OED (Oxford English Dictionary) has transgender as both a noun and an adjective - therefore it is perfectly valid to describe someone as transgendered if you wish... at least this side of the pond.. (actually Webster's has it as an adjective too) :)

The OED also features the additional noun 'transgenderist', which sounds way too close to someone that stuffs dead animals to my liking, so I sincerely hope that doesn't catch on... :eek:

Katey x