Change rooms, public toilets etc

[Danitgirl1]

Hi all
So change rooms have been in the news of late...
This has prompted some thoughts around change rooms and public toilets.
How should we as a community put our needs forward?
How should society respond?
What can we realistically expect of society?
I have no answers, only thoughts: https://daniellaargento.wordpress.com/2015/03/13/to-pee-or-not-to-pee-urine-trouble-now/
Let me know what you think

[SandraB]

Daniella:
I haven't gone out en femme in public yet but I would like to some day. I think that if I was out in public and I needed to use a changing room, public toilet I would not be comfortable using the male one. At the same time, I can fully appreciate that GGs may not be happy and object to a CD using their facilities. Your linked articles are interesting, however, in both cases the rules seems to support the person using the facilities in accordance with the gender they identify with rather than the one at birth. This would work for TGs but I don't think it would for a CD. I'm a CD that identifies with the male gender, so I don't think it would meet my needs. My preference would be for uni-sex facilities. As you mention, this may be a feasible stipulation for new facilities but could be onerous without a grand-father clause for existing facilities.

[Nikki A.]

I've been out dressed and used the ladies room without any issues. Anywhere from waiting on line at the Port Authority Bus Terminal, Olive Garden, Kmart etc in Pennsylvania and other states . I go in do my business, wash and go, no hanging out and I've had no problems so far. Of course if there is a private bathroom so much the better, but otherwise you do what you need to do.
It seems that if you're dressed as a woman, it would create more of an uproar using the men's room.

[kimdl93]

Honestly, it astonishes me how obsessed some people are with bathrooms etc. I don't believe I pass and yet in years of going out, I've yet to encounter any issues with using a bathroom or dressing room.

[KlaireLarnia]

I firmly believe you should use the toilet/washroom which matches your sex. If you are male you go in the male toilet. I see no excuse for a man to go in a female toilet as I find it quite a disturbing thought.

If you choose to go out en femme, then so be it - you are still male and therefore your choice is set by that. I am sure a lot of women would be horrified to know there was a man in their toilets/washroom irrespective of how he was dressed.

[Sometimes Steffi]

When out en femme, I go to the girls room. I have not had any problems, but I did have an embarrassing incident. I was in the girls room doing my makeup (before a GG clothing swap) and this girl comes in while I'm doing my makeup, and starts trying on tops, one after the other, each time exposing her bra. I still don't know if she didn't make me, or made me and didn't care. Anyhow, I pretended it was the most normal thing, finished my makeup and left.

But if you do use a girls room, do it like a girl, sitting down, feet away from the toilet.

[Melissa Rose]

Many clothing stores now have gender neutral dressing rooms with private stalls so the dressing rooms are not designated for men or women. In many US states, you have the right to use the restroom corresponding with your gender identity if it is a public or implied public facility (shopping centers, lobbies, etc.). In almost 6 years, I have never encountered a problem. The general rule is to use the restroom or dressing room that corresponds to your presentation providing you are making a sincere effort at your gender presentation. If you are a very obvious "man in a dress" and making no attempt at a female presentation, use the men's restroom or dressing room. If you are androgynous or gender queer, use the ones where you feel the most comfortable or safe.

Where I live it is a very tiny vocal minority who complain about transgender individuals using the restroom, dressing room or locker room corresponding to their gender identity. They are losing the battle and the war. The current trends in California are for more unisex restrooms where all of the stalls are private or making all single stall restrooms not segregated by sex/gender. In many locations, this is a requirement for new or remodeled buildings especially in city, county and state buildings, and at state colleges and universities. At the college where I teach, all new buildings are required to have multiple gender neutral single use restrooms, and all existing single stall restrooms are having new signs installed. This was initiated by the LGBTQ faculty sub-committee of which I am a member. There are laws in California protecting your right to use the restroom or locker room corresponding with your gender identity. Changes for the better are happening, but some places are lagging behind.

For the past 10 years, the Sacramento Unified School District has had a policy of individuals can use the restroom corresponding to their gender identity as long as there is sincere and genuine effort. There have been zero, yes zero, reported complaints, issues or problems. Zero. Not a single boy has tried to use the transgender excuse to go into a girls restroom or locker room. All of the fear mongering about someone abusing the policy has been proven wrong.

I believe the images and comments in the following link highlight how wrong the policy of only using your birth gender restroom can be. http://www.newnownext.com/trans-people-fight-unjust-bathroom-bills-with-restroom-selfies-in-wejustneedtopee-viral-campaign/03/2015/

[Rhonda Darling]

Honestly, it astonishes me how obsessed some people are with bathrooms etc. I don't believe I pass and yet in years of going out, I've yet to encounter any issues with using a bathroom or dressing room.

. . . Which of course doesn't tell us anything about how you handle this basic human need when out en femme. So please, do tell!


So, everyone else . . . Please realize that what you can do is entirely dependent on where you are. What works in San Francisco, or Washington, DC, OR Pennsylvania, can get you a beat down in other sections of the country. You've got to have situational awareness. The people who fear we will molest or otherwise cause trouble in a restroom have irrational fears that won't easily go away. The fact that no TG/TS/CD has ever actually done this is of no persuasion to people whose minds are already made up.

Rhonda

[Nadine Spirit]

If I am out wearing women's clothes but not presenting as a woman, I will use the men's room.

If I am out presenting as a woman, i will use the ladies.

In ten years of this practice, over four different states, Oregon, California, Arizona, Nevada, I have never ever had the slightest problem by anyone.

For dressing rooms, the same policy has applied. And I have frequently dressed both ways and both ways have taken the other genders clothes into the rooms with me. Some folks have questioned if the items are for me, to which I have simply replied, yes. And surprsingly no problems, ever.

[Lorileah]

How should we as a community put our needs forward? Needs? This isn't even a question. You are out, you present as female....you should be able to use the women's room. If this is a problem with the society...build unisex restrooms and REQUIRE them in every PUBLIC venue. It is required under ADA for handicapped persons.

How should society respond? Society needs to grow up. All the BS perpetuated by myths needs to be erased and people need to know that what they THINK isn't what is real. Again it was done in 1967. The government said "this is how it needs to be...do it"

What can we realistically expect of society? Now a dang thing. Especially when our own community won't step up and be heard because they can hide when the world gets tough...i.e.
I firmly believe you should use the toilet/washroom which matches your sex. If you are male you go in the male toilet. I see no excuse for a man to go in a female toilet as I find it quite a disturbing thought.

If you choose to go out en femme, then so be it - you are still male and therefore your choice is set by that. I am sure a lot of women would be horrified to know there was a man in their toilets/washroom irrespective of how he was dressed. So risking your life and well being just because you were TOLD that TGs were perverts or strange or not normal. Because you were TOLD that the ONLY reason TGs or any MtF person was there to sexually assault women...because you go into restrooms for anything but natures call? See when we can't even get people who are TG to see us as NOT abnormal or strange or perverts...how the heck can we expect someone without our perspective to see us as otherwise?




Honestly, it astonishes me how obsessed some people are with bathrooms etc. I don't believe I pass and yet in years of going out, I've yet to encounter any issues with using a bathroom or dressing room. :yt:

Grow up... get over it...lose the learned fears. Really?
. . . Which of course doesn't tell us anything about how you handle this basic human need when out en femme. So please, do tell! Youuse the facilities you are presenting as and you do what every other person does.



Please realize that what you can do is entirely dependent on where you are. What works in San Francisco, or Washington, DC, OR Pennsylvania, can get you a beat down in other sections of the country. Sorry but you didn't say that either way you get beat down. If I were in a male restroom and in your example I would get beaten, abused, and possibly raped and killed. So what do I do? You say I could get beat if I use the women's? So where do I go? Explain? Please. You see this is what I am talking about. You see the problem but what is the solution? TGs in the areas you talk about have to "go" too and sometimes you can't wait? So what do you do?

[Danitgirl1]

I admire your passion Lorileah, more power to you!

[Vickie_CDTV]

When it comes to society, there are no easy answers. It is a fine line between protecting one group without trespassing on the rights of others. For a subset of trans people like me who have issues passing (or are not trans but are gender variant in appearance), the best course is to encourage facilities to have a third restroom to assist families where one person needs to assist a child (or elderly SO) of the opposite gender. No need to argue the bathroom thing for all trans people, there is already a need for a third restroom for others segments of society; you can argue it makes good business sense, will save them some headaches and this way it can be done without using government force to compel them to do it.

Personally, I always use a single user one, if not available a female restroom (carefully) but absolutely never if there are young girls in there; I'd use the men's room instead, I, personally, wouldn't go there. A mama bear will attack someone she thinks might mess with her cubs, whether they are or not.

[DonnaT]

The big problem is the current few states that are trying to pass laws to force a person to use the restroom consistent with their gender as assigned at birth.

This means that there will be many transmen using the ladies room. Of course, telling a transman from a cisman can be quite difficult, and if these legislatures are worried about men dressing as women just to spy on or rape women in the ladies room, the new law will enable cismen, who do have bad intentions, to enter the ladies by declaring they were female born.

Imagine a young girl, say 9, goiing into the ladies room at the mall as her dad waits outside for her to finish, and some large bearded transman follows her in. I don't think the dad is going to passively watch this happen. I can envision an increase in assaults and law suits.

What are they going to do, post someone at the doors of all restrooms to check genitalia?

[Nikki A.]

In general there is no backlash as long as you do your business and go. And I think that some perceptions are changing (IE the Planet Fitness incident where the complainer was asked to leave).
I find it humorous that a pervert would go through all the trouble to dress as a woman to hang out in a bathroom. However I guess that there are people who may think like that.
However, I would be more fearful of being dressed and going into a men's room, especially when there is alcohol involved.

[Marcelle]

Hi Dani,

When I go out if I am presenting female, I use the ladies restroom and to date I have had little issue. A few odd looks but nobody screaming blue murder. I am cognizant of the discomfort a woman could feel upon seen me in that space but I do my business and get out (okay, I may straighten my hair on a windy day). The unfortunate thing we are beginning to see is push back from Conservative/Religious fundamentalist in the legislating bodies drumming up "perverted boogey men" who will dress up as women and use this to ogle women or assault young girls (no such evidence supports this stance). However it is being used quite effectively here in Canada to block a Federal TG rights bill in which one bigoted Senator has added an amendment to the Bill designed to give us protected rights which in effect makes it illegal for us to use the bathroom of the gender we are presenting. This created a sort of "selfie" campaign of trans men and women taking photos of themselves in the bathroom of the birth gender even though they present the opposite. There are a few posts on the "media" portion of this forum dealing with this. One interesting one which speaks to the campaign is http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?225804-quot-Trans-men-in-women-s-bathrooms-Get-used-to-it-quot-Montreal-Gazette



I firmly believe you should use the toilet/washroom which matches your sex. If you are male you go in the male toilet. I see no excuse for a man to go in a female toilet as I find it quite a disturbing thought.

If you choose to go out en femme, then so be it - you are still male and therefore your choice is set by that. I am sure a lot of women would be horrified to know there was a man in their toilets/washroom irrespective of how he was dressed.

Klaire,

While you may be applying logic to the scenario you do not take into account the type of violence which may occur for a trans individual using their birth gender restroom. Say for example a 15 year old child in your family is a "trans girl" who has not had GRS (still male below the belt). She is out with her GG friends at the mall and before heading home they all decide to use the restroom. While her friends turn right into the ladies she turns left into the men's (using her birth gender restroom as you suggest). Luckily it is empty, she enters a stall, does her business and exits only to find three young men staring at what appears to be a 15 year old girl in the men's room. So they decide to take this opportunity to have their way with her (after all she is in the guy's room so she must be looking for it). However, once they discover she is trans they then decide to beat her mercilessly. So I have to argue your logic would only lead to a very serious consequences.

You may say this would not be the norm but I would argue that even once is not a good enough reason to force trans people into a situation where their lives could be at risk.

Hugs

Isha

[Richelle]

I use the ladies room all the time without an issue. In fact I have a number of conversations with others while washing up or waiting for a stall. The same with the dressing room at the stores I buy my clothes.

If you act like you belong, no one will care as they are busy doing what they are there for

Richelle

[Cheryl T]

Honestly, it astonishes me how obsessed some people are with bathrooms etc. I don't believe I pass and yet in years of going out, I've yet to encounter any issues with using a bathroom or dressing room.

I feel the same as Kim. When asked what restroom to use it's "when in Rome" for me. Drab = Mens Fab = Womens. Yes there are the horror stories of being outed in the women's room, but my feeling is that I would rather suffer the wrath of a woman and try to reason with her than be confronted by some Testosterone overloaded man who feels he has to defend men everywhere against the "sissy invasion".
I've had encounters with women in the restroom. One in particular was memorable. I was in the stall and heard the hand dryers all going and going and little girls giggling. This set the stage for what I thought might be "one of those moments". I lingered and the sounds continued. Finally exiting and washing my hands I saw 2 girls, about 8 or 9 yrs old, standing under the dryers with their long hair blowing everywhere while their mom stood by them watching and laughing. As I neared the dryers she said to them, "that's enough, let the lady use the dryer". We smiled at each other, I dried my hands and as I stepped away the girls returned to their playing under the dryers.
What could have been horrible (a mother and her daughters) turned wonderful in a second. You never know what will happen.

In another case I was in Macy's dressing room trying on a top. My wife was scouring the racks and I cautiously stepped out of the dressing area to see if she was nearby to get her opinion. As I did an older woman walked by and said, "just buy it darling, it looks wonderful on you". I smiled and did just that.

[Beverley Sims]

I wouldn't push the issue, acceptance will be slow.

Society????? will object and procrastinate till the cows come hone.

I take it day by day and be discreet about it.

I must go th the "WASHROOM" now:)

[Jodi]

When out enfemme, I use the ladies room. never had a problem. When shopping, I most always shop as a guy and mostly in women's clothing stores. I request a fitting room, go in, try on and make my purchases. About 15 years ago, I had an SA at Christopher & Banks make a stink when I asked for a fitting room. I smiled, handed her my items and walked out. When I looked back, she was being chewed out by the manager. Never had a problem since.

Jodi

[Kate T]

This one doesn't even need a trans slant.

Communal urinals / change rooms really should be a thing of the past in modern western society for the safety and dignity of ALL individuals, not just those who have an unconventional gender expression. Once all of the facilities are individual then the question of whether they are gendered is moot.

I think that whilst I can understand women's fears regarding bathrooms they are completely unfounded. Think of this. If your 14 yr old child was gender questioning and felt and presented in a feminine manner, would you feel safer for them if they used a mens or womens restroom?

[CynthiaD]

I think this is one of the top trans issues. In my home state of Texas it is illegal for a man to enter the ladies room without being invited (whatever that means). A few years ago a mtf trans woman was arrested for using the ladies room in (I believe) the Austin public library. She was a pre-op transsexual going through her life-test. She presented as a woman 24/7, and (as I recall) had obtained permission to use the ladies room while in the library.

If someone is harassing others, there are plenty of other laws to cover that. No one should be arrested just because they have to pee.

[Rhanda]

I don't try to present as a woman. I just like to wear whatever I want as long as it doesn't get me arrested for indecency. If I have to use a rest room I use the men's room or a single use restroom. No problem even though I have been told that I pass as a woman. Don't sweat it. You are generally safe in your own stall.

Rhanda

[flatlander_48]

In the broadest sense, those who have a problem with LGBT rights are not above fear mongering. They will say anything, stretch any truth and outright fabricate in order to maintain the status quo. Logic and facts have no meaning for them...

DeeAnn

[Launa]

I don't know what the best answer is for the toilets. I've used the men's quite a bit and its come close to starting fights especially at the bars.

The last time out I used the women's because my very good friend that's transitioning said I should be using it and I really respect her and it was her event she invited me to. When I go out again in a couple weeks I will probably use the men's unless some women around me invite me in with them. I don't know what the heck to do, I still figure if I use the men's that they can make room for me. In saying that I want to do what's right for our cause and movement and this might not be the right thing to do......

Launa

[flatlander_48]

L:

I would be more concerned about personal safety. Doing the right thing politically is cold comfort if you get beaten up. That is just not a good trade...

DeeAnn

[Launa]

Yeah that's the wise approach!!!!!

But honestly I feel more comfortable in the men's. I'm sure its all in my head but I feel I belong there unless I was going to start transitioning.

[flatlander_48]

The thing is, if at all possible, you never want to put people in a situation where they feel bad behavior is justified.

[SheriM]

When I am wearing womans jeans and a bra underneath, without make up or a wig, I use the men's room. When I am wearing a skirt, high heels, forms, wig and makeup, I use the womens room. It's wise to still be vigilant and cognizant of who is around you. If you look at me, I so not completely pass and I don't want to freak anyone out, nor do I want to create a scene. I'll try to go in when it is not busy, especially avoiding pre teen and teenage girls. I go in, shut the door, do my business and get out. Never had a problem.

[Stephanie47]

In Washington State the law protects transsexuals and cross dressers. Basically, it offers protection for those who are presenting themselves as the opposite gender. Someone above made a distinction between a man transitioning from male to female, and, a cross dresser who is not transitioning. I think society has pretty much accepted the fact there are people 'trapped' in the wrong body. Society really has not accepted the idea of a man wearing women's clothing for 'fun.' I'm sure there are many cross dressers who are passable and blend.

In my locale there have been a news story or two recently concerning men wearing women's clothing and using cell phone cameras to take pictures of women and girls in public restrooms. I'm sure any mother or father is extra careful when their daughters use the facilities. Of course, all the negative press slops over onto all transsexuals and cross dressers.

I think the vast majority of us take careful consideration of others when out en femme. Be realistic! Be prepared for the worst, even if you're legally protected. If a 'family' restroom is available, I would use it before venturing into either a woman's or men's room. I also would make sure I used my home bathroom before venturing out, and, restrict fluid intake.

It only takes one ignorant person to make a scene.

[Rachel_B]

I have read that Planet Fitness article as well and articles about 4 different states that are trying to get laws passed to protect women and children by forcing transgender people to use the restroom that matches their birth gender. One of these states is going as far as letting students sue the school for $2,500 if they catch another student in the wrong bathroom. I think this will send a wrong message and continue bigotry in the USA. The bottom line that I believe is that all these Anti-Transgender laws are stripping the transgender community of their human rights. How long will it take before you start hearing news about people getting harassed or physically beat or worse because they went into the wrong restroom based on their appearance? Anybody that thinks people have to use the restroom that correlates to what is between their legs needs a reality check and realize that people that know they are a person of the opposite gender or just like to express themselves as the opposite gender are still considered a person and a human being; they have the same rights to feel safe from harm as everybody else.

[AletaHawk]

I'm sorry but I really don't feel like being thrown in jail because I made a GG uncomfortable This garbage is exactly why I have to live in the closet. The Florida bill is moving forward, and given how on-party-lines it has been so far, the future is bleak. I hate this state so much.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/gay-south-florida/article15120632.html

[JayeLefaye]

There have been a lot of thoughtful responses here to a question that comes up a lot. So thanks to all who have contributed!!!

I fear that my contribution will not further any cause at all, but am going to offer it because I don't think anyone has yet, in any of the "Her's or His' Threads yet .

I, personally, still haven't come to a comfortable solution...

So , what do I do???

I park way out back, or down the street a bit ...Somewhere out of the mainstream traffic and next to some bushes. Then I excuse myself to get some "Fresh air", use my car as a "blocker", hike up my skirt and water the bushes .

12:00 noon, or 12:00 midnight, it doesn't 't matter. If I gotta go , then I'm gonna go... Been doing it for twenty years, with sanity-wipes and a bottle of water to rinse my hands.

Sometimes, it's nice to be able to hike up my skirt and take advantage of my guy "equipment".

But that's just me????

Jaye

[Danitgirl1]

I am very concerned about the Florida bill.
And yes I agree that it is crazy that trans* people should be marginalised in this way.
In a way it is the extention of the 'inappropriate clothing' debate.
Just because someone else is made to feel uncomfortable by you or the way you dress, doesn't mean that you should have to change.
For example, if a male is getting 'turned on' by his sister in a mini skirt, you simply cannot argue that teh fault lies with her wearing a mini skirt. The problem is his. He is having the inappropriate response, not her. You cannot blame her for his feelings, emotions etc.
Now the same is, imho, true of trans* people and toilet facilities. Why oh why is it our fault that (some) men (may) want to physically assault us for using a men's toilet and, nor is it our fault that (some) women (may) feel uncomfortable urinating (or whatever) in a closed, locked and private stall next to a trans* person doing the same. And as for the horror that is washing your hands next to a possibly trans* person!!!???
All we can do is hope that this publicity will start to (re)form public perceptions in a more sensible way, but I do think we need to think carefully about how we respond to this.

[Claire Cook]

Dani,

A lot of us are worried about the Florida bill. Since the bill (here is the wording (http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=_h0583__.docx&DocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=0583&Session=2015)) expressly defines "sex" (not gender...) as that "sex" one is assigned at birth, it would seem to include ALL transpeople, even post-op people who have had legal gender changes.

I have used ladies' rooms here for years with never a problem. (And as for as I know no female has ever been threatened by my presence.) Will we all be able to do so if this thing passes? I for one would never think of going to the men's room when presenting as female.

[DonnaT]

Transmen should visit the legislature as often as possible and follow the lady representatives into the restrooms, if they even use public restrooms.

[flatlander_48]

I for one would never think of going to the men's room when presenting as female.

That would be like wearing a sign that said Punch Me!!

[Dianne S]

I am sure a lot of women would be horrified to know there was a man in their toilets/washroom irrespective of how he was dressed.

OK; that's something I don't get. Why would they be "horrified"?

Women's washrooms have private stalls. I've never seen anyone doing anything remotely private or intimate in the common area of a women's washroom. In fact, I've been to some places where all washrooms are gender-neutral. What's the big deal?

It would be extremely dangerous for me to go to a men's washroom while presenting as female. I'm not going to take my life into my own hands just to pee, thanks.

[Ellie52]

I don't care anymore. I go out dressed in DRAB and ask if I can try on clothes. The shops I have been in haven't (as yet) complained to me.
I recently went to spoil yourself (a dress shop in Australia) and asked to try on a ball gown. There were other people in the store and I took a wig/boobs etc with me. I tried the dress on in the change room with other women and all very friendly and offered advice. It was great fun and I tried several dresses and bought one.
The SA was pleased to get a sale and asked me to come back anytime.
This wasn't an isolated incident so maybe times are changing.
I think there could be an issue if a woman said she wasnt going back to the store after seeing a guy trying on clothes she may end up buying. I would totally agree with her. Until then I'll keep on trying/ buying clothes as its great fun.
E

[Krisi]

Complaining and getting all worked up on a crossdressing forum does nothing at all. The majority of the population thinks it's wrong or even sick for men to "dress up and pretend they are women". The only way for us to have a right to a place to handle our bodily functions is for us to call, e-mail or write our elected representatives and ask them to pass laws protecting our rights and repeal laws that restrict our rights.

[marci_j]

I use the ladies restroom but I try to find ones that are private and only one person at a time. I have used larger ones but try and wait for a lull and get in and out.

[MsVal]

I have used the womans' room several when presenting as a woman. They were uneventful.

More to the point of the discussion, there are existing laws that make it illegal to assault another person, whether sexually or otherwise. It is currently NOT illegal to have the ABILITY to assault another person.

If we can take it out of the context of sexual assault and apply that standard to another crime it gets really silly. Let's look at the possession of narcotic drugs.

It is illegal for anyone but a licensed pharmacist to sell narcotic drugs (existing law). Some people augment their income by selling their prescribed narcotic drugs (ability to break the law). Should it be made illegal to possess narcotic drugs (criminalize the ability)? Should people be required to visit clinics for each dose they require (compensation for loss of ability)? Would society be better off having people with significant pain management issues, or pharmacy technicians with boxes of drugs for single dose delivery on the roads six times a day (unintended consequences)?

Some things just get sillier every day.

Best wishes
MsVal

[RachelB.]

Based on how I'm presenting I use the approiate facilities. I try to use the bathrooms in places that have small single occupancy restrooms. This eliminates the possibility of offending a GG in the restroom.

[Lily Catherine]

Line looks like it's been pushed even closer and much more easily crossed, if only by how others see "our ilk" in light of rather recent events.

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/singapore/more-singapore-stories/story/man-allegedly-dresses-girl-peep-inside-female-toilet-ite

Once I go out presenting as female, guess it'll be the handicapped toilet if I really need it. There are just too many who, sadly, react upon suspicion, like a pre-emptive strike. Unisex single toilets are pretty rare here at any rate. Were they more common I'd have one less grouse.

[FrancineS]

I have used ladies room many times, if you act like you belong in there its cool. Obviously you must squat to take care of business. Only have had problem at that Arkansas based big box store, so I don't go to that establishment any more. Small joints with one restroom are key, as are Family restrooms. Most folks don't even notice, others don't care. I avoid mens rooms all together that's where problems occur IMO.

[cheryl reeves]

when enfemme its the ladies rm for i pass,dressed as a male the men rm. never had problems.

[Rhian]

As far as I'm aware in the UK all toilets are public spaces so there's no law requiring people to use a certain toilet. So I think when I eventually start going out in public I'll use the one I feel most comfortable entering.

[cassiekat]

My formula is men's room in the general public and if I am at a gay club I use the ladies room. Got yelled at in a gay club men's room by three guys and I got really pissed and almost started something because I said I was in the right bathroom. Most places are going to family restrooms and heading off the problem

[JenniferYager]

I don't understand why we haven't shifted to unisex bathrooms everywhere and no men/womens. From an engineering perspective, it's way simpler and you can have more stalls for everyone!

As for changing rooms, most rooms are unisex anymore. At Ross, I went dressed up and was sent to the women's changing room. Easy day, no drama. I'm there to try on clothes, not check out the other women, plus the changing rooms are private anyway.

[alwayshave]

Jennifer, I know in the D.C. area that is the trend, unisex single stall bathrooms.

[Sarah Doepner]

There are several states where very restrictive bathroom useage laws are being drafted and proposed regarding Trans* use of public restrooms. From my perspective these are all based on unfounded fears and there are probably more problems with Trans* folks using the restroom of their assigned gender when presenting their preferred gender.

But that is all based on individual perception and selective memory. Is there any data out there that addresses this issue? If not, why?

I've asked the local Pride Law Enforcement group this question and they say that gathering the data is difficult since they all use computer records systems that they either purchase or lease. Any changes cost money and they don't have money to spend on something like this. My response continues to be the same; without data laws are being designed without a base in reality and the officers will be required to enforce something that will result in lawsuits and countersuits, costing a lot more money in the long run.

I suggest each of us send a note to local law enforcement, district attorneys and legislators asking how this can be fixed, other than through a blind rush to legislate based only on an undocumented fear.

[I Am Paula]

Most of this proposed legislation will be struck down before it gains any strength. If even one, or a few go thru, it is truly a bad sign. A lot of our elected officials see these bills as easy to get aboard, and will require little of their time, or effort. If it fails, it will be quickly forgotten. To them a win win.