Natural nature vs. Fun fetish

[CountessVF]

It's been on my mind lately as I've read the forum posts. There seems to be a majority here of people who see themselves as transgendered. People have expressed that when they are wearing the ladies attire they feel natural and comfortable, "at home", "like I should be", or "trapped in a man's body".

This made me wonder if they are really crossdressing. In society's eyes based on genitals, maybe. But if these people identify as female and are wearing the clothing associated with their perceived gender it seems to me it's dressing and not cross-dressing.

In contrast those of us who just wear the clothes for fun. I'm not suggesting one way is right or wrong. Just working out the lay of the land.

[Marcelle]

Hi Countess VF,

Well this is the ongoing debate centered around labels . . . am a guy wearing a dress for fun or am a woman trapped in a man's body wearing what feels natural. It is a hard call especially for those of us who tend to be gender fluid (I spend 40 percent of my time female and the other 60 percent male). I love both sides and each bring their own reward. So for me, I like to think I am just a person wearing what feels right . . . my clothes.

Hugs

Isha

[CynthiaD]

You're quite correct. But there's more to it than just clothes. There's the big problem of self acceptance and understanding one's role in society. We've become familiar with the male role, and it's a learning experience to move toward the female role, even if that role is fundamentally more natural. It's necessary to have experiences, learn from them, and then step back and assess where we are and where we're going. So it's not just dressing, it's much more than that.

[CountessVF]

Hi Countess VF,

Well this is the ongoing debate centered around labels . . . am a guy wearing a dress for fun or am a woman trapped in a man's body wearing what feels natural. It is a hard call especially for those of us who tend to be gender fluid (I spend 40 percent of my time female and the other 60 percent male). I love both sides and each bring their own reward. So for me, I like to think I am just a person wearing what feels right . . . my clothes.

Hugs

Isha

Thanks for responding Isha.

Had not considered the idea of gender fluidity. Are there times where you don't feel natural in either of the sets of clothing? If so do you get a thrill from that? Or is that when you change genders and just wear what matches the gender you're identifying with at the time to feel comfortable.

I think that's the pivotal question. Are we dressing as men or women to feel comfortable or experience a fetish?

[Crissy Kay]

I am on the fun side!!

[Marcelle]

Hi Countess VF,

I always feel natural in my clothing irrespective of gender presentation. So I would have to say I merely dress for the gender I am presenting. I do not mix my clothing or underdress. So no thrill . . . just clothes for me.

Hugs

Isha

[Stephanie47]

Threads such as this have been explored endlessly on this site, which is good. I think too many men are lost when it comes to trying to identify the reason why they like to wear women's clothing. I really think the youngsters having access to the Internet and sites like this have an advantage over the oldsters like moi. Back in the 1960's I had no idea what the heck I was. Society put round peg into a square hole. I was suppose to be a homosexual. I was totally confused. It took a long time to sort out those conflicts. So, there are men who are homosexual who wear women's clothing. And, there are heterosexual men who like to wear women's clothing. There are men who are "trapped" in a male body, and, have the mindset of a woman. Those men really have a medical issue to deal with.

When you stated there arre "those of uswho just wear the clothes for fun," you should really explored why you wear women's clothing for fun. Yes, maybe a guy will be an outrageously dress hooker on Halloween, bu, why do men like to just wear women's clothing in the privacy of their homes. Is it for fun? Or, is there something else going on in their minds? I have absolutely no understanding what motivated me to begin wearing women's clothing. I know what I get out of it now. It's not something I do for fun. I do other things en homme for fun.

[CountessVF]

When you stated there arre "those of uswho just wear the clothes for fun," you should really explored why you wear women's clothing for fun. Yes, maybe a guy will be an outrageously dress hooker on Halloween, bu, why do men like to just wear women's clothing in the privacy of their homes. Is it for fun? Or, is there something else going on in their minds? I have absolutely no understanding what motivated me to begin wearing women's clothing. I know what I get out of it now. It's not something I do for fun. I do other things en homme for fun.

Speaking for my self I enjoy it because of the contrast to my true nature. I'm an alpha and a leader. I enjoy the absurdity of it, the power exchange with wife. I probably experience it more as an extension of BDSM than indulging a need to experience my feminine side, of which I'm not I have one. Or really what being feminine looks like in modern society.

That being said I don't think less of anyone because they are experiencing this differently. And if life has taught me anything it's impermanence. So I might end up feeling differently over time.

[Teresa]

Countess,
No I don't dress for fun but I do enjoy it, at the moment I prefer to look like Teresa in my avatar rather than the male behind the makeup ! I feel just as comfortable dressed whether I'm a CDer or TG it's still crossdressing because I'm not TS as far as I know!

Trying to find the lie of the land is really irrelevant because we're all different, the clothes and dressing have different meanings to many of us !

[Beverley Sims]

It is thought provoking looking through the various posts.

After reading others replies you then need to judge for yourself what the real problem is.

[CountessVF]

It is thought provoking looking through the various posts.

After reading others replies you then need to judge for yourself what the real problem is.

There isn't a problem. Just interested in how others see themselves. Been reflecting on who I am and what makes me tic.

[pamela7]

if there's one thing i have learned on this forum: there is very little black and white in nature - apart from Orcas that is.
A human being might exhibit a range of behaviours attributed to one sex or the other for the society in which they were raised. By default we wear what we are given to wear.
Personally, I have been greatly surprised how much happier I feel en-femme. I'm a man in a male body, I love women, but I dress in women's clothes unless i have to don overalls for the garden for example. It began as a fetish and has become a lifestyle that feels more natural. I would say therefore I'm crossdressing.

[Lacy PJs]

For me, it is about 90% about the clothes. I do like the feel of fem clothing but am not at all uncomfortable in donning a coat & tie either. The other 10% leans towards a relaxed feeling that I sometimes get when dressed. But that isn't all of the time.

I know that others here really frown on labels but in my way of thinking... for those like me who just like the clothes, crossdressing is an end. To others who feel that they are the woman trapped in a man's body (or other common descriptions), then crossdressing is a means to a different end.

Lacy PJs

[Nadine Spirit]

There seems to be a majority here of people who see themselves as transgendered. People have expressed that when they are wearing the ladies attire they feel natural and comfortable, "at home", "like I should be", or "trapped in a man's body".

...with their perceived gender it seems to me it's dressing and not cross-dressing.

In contrast those of us who just wear the clothes for fun.

So I suppose this may just be me being a bit picky but....

I see myself as being transgender but i don't identify with the rest of your statement about what TG feels like. I see myself as primarily gender non conforming and an occasional cross dresser. But I never feel like I am trapped in man's body. I think you are mixing transgender with transexual and thinking we are one and the same. So not true.

I am curious about how you see yourself being as with think you do this simply for fun or for the thrill of it. What do you suppose it is about you that makes you think that doing this is fun or thrilling. Sure you said you enjoy the "absurdity" of it but it still begs the question of why this? You could be absurd in lots of ways, but why this way?

My opinion is that we (cross dressers, transexuals, gender non conformists, gender fluids, non genders, bi genders, those who have transitioned, those who have not had SRS but live as a woman, those who want to be something other than their birth genders and do not intend to ever act on it, the cross dressing fethists, the man who gets a kick out of trying on his wifes panties - oh to heck with it!!!!!) who are transgender desire this stuff because we were born this way. So my vote is for natural nature, for ALL of us. :)

Disclaimer - this was only my opinion and not meant to label anyone beyond what they themselves choose to be labeled as.

[Maria 60]

Through out the years here I have noticed that we are all unique. I see it like we are like snowflakes, we are almost the same but we all dress for different reasons. In my opinion as long as a man wears a dress for what ever reason we are crossdressers. But that only my opinion.

[reb.femme]

Isha mentioned the labels game and to that end, I identify as transgendered as I present as both male and female. As I have no desire to chop my appendages, I further identify as a crossdresser. But, and I say it every time this comes up, I see life as, 'it is what it is'. I really don't query myself over the whys and the wherefores and simply accept that I like doing what I do, so it may be nature or nuture, but I really don't care.

I think of it as analogous to the fact that I used to play Football (Soccer) back in the day and never liked or cared for Rugby. I can't tell why I had this preference, I just did. So it is with dressing, but I should note, I never ruptured my patella pole (knee cap) and in plaster for eight weeks whilst dressing up :).

Rebecca

[SandraB]

I don't know why I CD. I don't do it for fun, but I want to have fun doing it. I don't find it natural as I identify with my male gender. However, I'm greatly attracted to all things femine - the clothes, the makeup, the look, the style, the movement, the scent, the softness, not being afraid to show emotion etc. Maybe CD'ing helps me get in touch with the feminine side of my personality, helps fill a void and makes me a more complete person. I don't know but I'm getting to feel very comfortable with it.

[Jilmac]

I consider "transgender" to be an umbrella term covering all phases of gender dysphoria. When I refer to myself I say I'm bi gender because there are two genders within one body and I'm comfortable with both. I thoroughly enjoy being Jill whenever I can, but can also enjoy being the male that I was born as.

[CountessVF]

I am curious about how you see yourself being as with think you do this simply for fun or for the thrill of it. What do you suppose it is about you that makes you think that doing this is fun or thrilling. Sure you said you enjoy the "absurdity" of it but it still begs the question of why this? You could be absurd in lots of ways, but why this way?

Ohh, good point. Got me dead to tights, get it?

I grew up in a very conservative religion where gender rules are very rigid. The man is the leader, bread winner and protector of the family. Up til recently I felt overwhelming anxiety being responsible for every detail. During that period it was nice to have the occasional power exchange.

Assuming the submissive role through clothing alleviated the pressure and expectations. So I guess my draw to it might be closer to BDSM than indulging a need/want to connect to a feminine side. Even if it was only for an hour at a time.

Through a private discussion I realized I wasn't being honest with myself and by that any of you.

I want to want believe what I said about it being a nice distraction from the pressures of being the "patriarch", yet I can remember as a small child excitement from lingerie, pantyhose and even swim suits that I tried on. But it's always been sexual for me. I'd put stuff on and get off and go back to blue jeans and a t-shirt. And that holds true today.

I've started to form a theory that the attraction and admiration we boys/men have for women, especially for the sexier attire, gets overemphasized onto the clothing. And then with the attraction being largely associated with the clothing the excitement can be independent from the woman. Naturally we aren't going to be satisfied with staring at a pile of clothing on the floor so the tactile experience starts and progresses into putting on what is our focus for attraction. And I think we can all agree the same woman will be perceived quite differently based on the clothing choices she makes. You don't see a lot of "gurls" wearing baggy sweats lol. I think we might actually be drawn to the things we are attract to on a woman.

Thoughts?

[msniki48]

Stephanie
I am with you on this one....being 63...I went through a lot of self loathing before a therapist told me what it was to be transgendered...I do see a lot of evolving going on in the CD community with access to the information on the internet. I know that when I need niki time, I truly need it. I know now that I don't do it for fun, but years ago I may have used that as the excuse to dress. I love that you girls make me think when I am here. it has been a while since my last post. This one really hits home for me.

hugs, Niki

[crystal37]

Countess, I see where you are coming from here and my experience in my teens and into my 20s was very similar, but although there is still a sexual thrill in dressing up for me it's not all its about, I love to browse around shops and look at fashion mags etc and it's not just for thrills, I don't really know why but it's definitely not just a sexual thin any more now that I'm older.

[CountessVF]

Countess, I see where you are coming from here and my experience in my teens and into my 20s was very similar, but although there is still a sexual thrill in dressing up for me it's not all its about, I love to browse around shops and look at fashion mags etc and it's not just for thrills, I don't really know why but it's definitely not just a sexual thin any more now that I'm older.

I enjoy catalogs and browsing too. Damn.

I appreciate all the responses. Very thought filled and kind. Apparently I have no idea what I am doing. I know I enjoy it. Started to wonder if the calm some of us feel might be from the tension we carry trying to resist the urge to dress fading as we get dolled up.

[Nadine Spirit]

Apparently I have no idea what I am doing.

Sure you do. Its the why that you are struggling with. And that is totally normal. Given whatever explanation I will probably ponder various ones until I die. So for the most part I don't dwell on it. Like you said, I know I enjoy it!