Great anti gynophila rant I ran across

[Barbara Jo]

I found this on a Yahoo page........


"Consider this... if you were 100% female from birth... had a female body, a female upbringing, functioned in society as a female, were seen by men as a female, and had all the REAL experiences that the majority of females have, what do you think your sexual fantasies would be about?

My guess is, they probably wouldn't have anything to do with *being* female, since you already are female. There's no reason to fantasize about having or being something you already have, or already are, right?

Sexual arousal is only one part of a much larger "arousal mechanism" in our brains. The term arousal can apply to many things... salivating at the smell of fresh baked cookies, seeing a new car, or a piece of jewelry you'd desperately like to own, wanting to catch the perfect wave while surfing, or getting ready to have sex with someone you desire. We become aroused in many different ways by many different things. Some people get aroused by life-threatening situations. Some get aroused by the idea of taking risks and getting caught. Some people even get aroused by breaking the law.

We all react differently to desire and the attainment of desirable things. Some people laugh and shout. Some people cry. Some people faint. Some people break into a cold sweat. Some people experience erotic arousal. Did you know that before hanging fell out of favor, it was not unusual for men to ejaculate when they were hanged. What's going on there I wonder? The conditioning that is responsible for our most fundamental behavior is not well understood, but clearly something happens at puberty that allows us to associate specific desires with erotic arousal, and apparently these become indelibly burned into our brain.

Although figures vary, it's widely accepted that the "rape fantasy" is extremely popular amongst females. Few would argue that the repercussions of real-life rape are devastating. In no rational sense should anyone *want* to be raped, and yet MANY females have this fantasy. Why don't psychologists pathologize this? How is it possible that this desire is dismissed as just a "harmless erotic fantasy", while the idea of a Transsexual female feeling erotically aroused at having her greatest desire fulfilled (which also happens to be unarguably beneficial for her) is considered pathological? How many men use the phrase "has a hard-on for" in lieu "wants really badly?" Nothing wrong there though, huh?

I had a dog who became erect when he heard the Snausages bag open. Same thing would happen when I'd ask him, "want to go for a walk?" Boom - instant erection. Does that mean he was a "dogtreataphile", or a "walkintheparkaphile?" What was wrong with this silly animal? How did he tie treats and going for a walk in with humping the neighbor's bi tc h? Answer? Who the hell knows? What difference does it make? His wires got crossed, or maybe that's how they were supposed to work. From what I've seen, he wasn't the only dog like this.

These silly researchers are so desperate to pathologize each and every little behavior that eventually there won't be any leeway as to what you're allowed to feel or not feel in response to certain stimuli. At the end of the day all that matters is, "does the person who Transitions have a better life after they Transition?" According to the professionals who care for Transsexual people, the answer is a resounding, "YES!" What difference does it make *how* a person arrives at happiness, what matters is that they find it."

[Teresa]

Barbara,
Thanks for posting that text !
I know Blanchard was discredited by some as his research was partially flawed ! In this field proving hard fact is almost impossible anyway, trying to find the right box and put an appropriate label on it to accommodate every variation to satisfy all the critics is impossible !

I didn't expect the confusion over labels when I first joined the forum but to me autogynerphilia (tranvestic ) does tick most of my boxes !
It's the point I made in my thread titled, " Never ending feeling ".
The text ends by saying how a person arrives at happiness is immaterial as long you can find it ! And that's the rub, theory is one thing but real life is somewhat different ! You may find happiness at the expense of others, life is not perfect it's full of compromises !

Barbara,
Now you've found this text , what are your thoughts on it ?

[Katey888]

It's certainly a rant... and just one individual's opinion at the end of it all - but I can understand how the biggest 'anti' opinions do come from some transsexuals who reject the idea of agp for them. I don't believe later proponents of agp have suggested that it applies to all TS folk, just some - and that doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

To me, agp can explain one part of the TG/TS complexity - this is just someone ranting and missing the point of why professionals need to understand what drives people to want to transition... Without the research and professionals like Blanchard being prepared to go out on a bit of a limb with theories that can then be debated, modified, proven, disproven, restated - then our knowledge of these conditions would not progress. It's one of those things you have to accept if you want scientific progress particularly in the complex field of human psychology and gender.

That really niggles me about people... it's often those that may benefit from progress that are the first to rant against the process that eventually gets us there... :thinking:

Katey x

[Pat]

That really niggles me about people... it's often those that may benefit from progress that are the first to rant against the process that eventually gets us there... :thinking:


Let's say I want a cookie. I REALLY want a cookie. You're baking cookies. I can smell it. You start taking cookie pans out of the oven... first there's Brussel Sprouts chip. Then there's Tuna Macaroon. I go off the deep end THOSE AREN'T COOKIES!! I WANT COOKIES!! You carry on confident that someday someone will discover the fabled "chip of chocolate" that is in the anecdotal record, but in the mean time you reach for the liver and Mentos batter....

Just saying it's easy to want. It's easy to be impatient.

[Erika Lyne]

"Consider this... We all react differently to desire and the attainment of desirable things. ...What difference does it make *how* a person arrives at happiness, what matters is that they find it."

This is the most important thought. Discredited by scientific peers or not, this has a whole lot of message to it. The Declaration of Independence written by the Founding Fathers of the United States (no offense to our GB CD/TG GFs! We love you girls and guys!) even states that "life, liberty and the persuit of happiness" are examples of "unalienable rights." Say that to someone who says that you "shouldn't" dress. Tell them dressing is part of your persuit of happiness as an unalienable right. I've said it to an argumentative, over zealot, hyper-religious, "Proud to be an American" type person once who confronted me...it shut him down, immediately.
Hugs,
-E

PS: Thanks Jenni-cd, now I want a Tune Macaroon!!! I was doing so well on my diet. :laughing:

[cheryl reeves]

this is why i dont trust therapists

[Pat]

Honesty compels me to reveal that the Tuna Macaroon wasn't my idea -- it was a swipe from an old, wonderfully dumb movie called Traxx. The titular (keep it clean) hero was trying to get out of the hero business and open a bakery but first felt he had to discover a unique new cookie recipe. Tuna Macaroon was one of the candidates albeit made by another character he interacted with.

[docrobbysherry]

An interesting but pointless rant in my opinion. Dogs and baking cookies have NOTHING to do with getting turned on by your own image when dressed!

For those of us that may live with AGP, it is both a joy and a curse. Sex is supposed to be part of a loving relationship. And, it was for most of my life. Now, it's simply sex. Without affection, conversation, or sensual sharing.

Blanchard was technically wrong. But, even a broken clock is rite twice a day. :straightface:

[Cheryl T]

Just a note on the hanging subject.
If you check I believe you will see that when a person dies it's not unusual for all of those bodily functions to occur as the body reacts to the stress and release of death.

[Barbara Jo]

An interesting but pointless rant in my opinion. Dogs and baking cookies have NOTHING to do with getting turned on by your own image when dressed!

For those of us that may live with AGP, it is both a joy and a curse. Sex is supposed to be part of a loving relationship. And, it was for most of my life. Now, it's simply sex. Without affection, conversation, or sensual sharing.

Blanchard was technically wrong. But, even a broken clock is rite twice a day. :straightface:

I think the point was/is that human sexuality and gender identity is far more complex that some therapists suggest. :)

[Michelle789]

Barbara,

Thank you for your post!!! It's really enlightening and I see plenty of truth to it. As a transsexual female myself, I can totally identify with having had erotic fantasies about being a woman, and about having sex with a man, or about being turned into a woman. I would also fantasize about being raped too, although there is no freakin way I would want to be raped in real life. I am now nearly 8 months on hormones, and living full-time as a woman for 8 months - I was living as a woman "165" for two months before that. I am much happier on hormones, and much happier living as a woman and being seen and treated as such daily. I love seeing my breasts grow and my face and skin soften up. Yet there is no way I would ever want to be raped.

I do enjoy having a man take the lead, and make the moves on me, and woo me into having sex with him. But all sex must still be consensual.

Also, living as a woman full-time and sex are like apples and oranges. I am a woman. Living as a woman and taking hormones is full-time, and there is no going back. Sex is a momentary act of pleasure that I engage in. I'm not participating in anything sexual most of the time. I don't think about sex most of the time.

I see one more serious flaw in Blanchard's thinking. He said there were two types of transsexuals. One of his assertions is that we are either engaged in auto-erotic behavior and lived successful male lives, or were feminine gay boys who didn't engage in auto-erotic behavior. And neither are woman. Well, guess what? I both engaged in auto-erotic behavior and I was feminine as a boy - not in the flamboyant way like a gay man, nor was it reflected in the way I talked or dressed - it was reflected in my behavior and my personality and probably in subtle gender cues, as well as non-aggressive, non-girl-chasing behavior. And I am a woman. I am not a fetishist. I am not a gay man. I am not a feminine straight man either. I am a woman, born in the wrong body.

[Beverley Sims]

If I see a drop dead gorgeous girl dressed seductively walking down the street, wearing something I would want to wear..........


No I am not dead from the waist down "YET". :)