Helping a SO understand

[Taielyn]

Hi everybody, I'll apologize for two things right off the bat 1. This is going to be a novel of a post, and 2. I'm trying very hard to be open minded, and that is very very difficult for me as I wasn't raised in an open-minded family. I apologize in advance if I offend anybody by submitting to stereotypes or unintentionally.

Here's a little background: I've been with my fiancé for nearly 4 years. We met in college and I knew only a short while into it that I wanted to be with him as long as the universe would let me. When he graduated he got a job a state away and eventually moved me up with him. A little over 2 years ago I was packing to go back down to Oregon where we are from for my Mom's wedding, and I found a huge bag full of women's clothing. I was very confused, upset, and frankly scared. This person I had been living with and had discussed marrying was suddenly completely foreign to me. I tried to make up excuses for why he had all these clothes in our closet, thinking it was stuff he had held on to from a previous relationship. But couldn't get over the breast implants and the fact that all his stuff was nicer than my stuff. I left that night (a day early) and was very hesitant to return. We talked a bit while I was away and he told me he never realized it could hurt someone the way it hurt me, and that he wanted to stop. I came home, and I insisted he go see a counselor to get to the bottom of why he dresses. All he could tell me was that it helps relieve stress, and I was (still kind of am) convinced there is a deeper reason. He went to see the counselor for nearly 2 months and then told me he didn't need to go anymore.

A little over a year passed, we got engaged, bought a house and started planning our wedding. I walked out to grab the mail one day and there was a filer from Soma, a store I have never shopped at (I like VS), with his name on it and a customer number. I asked him about it, and he said he had no idea how they got his name. I didn't buy it, so I went on to their customer service page and started a live chat. I gave them all his information and they told me when the last purchase was. He had been dressing again for 5 months and even though I have been asking he hadn't told me he was having problems.

At this point I had it out with myself that if this is something he needed to do I would find a way to be alright with it. I wasn't sure how I would explain that (heaven forbid I had to) to my future kids, but I would learn to accept that if he needed "sparkle time" I could leave and find something to do so long as he talked to me about it. I climbed into the attic that night (which according to him the attic isn't part of the house, so it was never actually in my house) and pulled down approximately $500.00 worth of clothes, again - much nicer stuff than I have ever had. (I get my VS bras during the semi annual sale and consider it a treat).

I have up hope that a 1 on 1 counselor would help, and he agreed that we need to go to couples counseling. This was right about the time that I was getting ready, and actually just had, quit a job with a very hostile work environment that resulted in a very bad impact on our relationship, which I still think has to do with this "relapse".

We were doing better than ever, I agreed to continue on with the wedding, and we were beginning to talk more about difficult topics like the dressing, we also started doing more things together. He would help with some of the crafty things I had to do for the wedding, and I took up cycling and bowling which are both things he likes to do.

Fast forward to last Sunday - Easter. We went over to Panera to have breakfast (a treat because we are both on a diet) and when I got back in the car I saw a reciept from Macy's on the floor. I figured it was one of mine because we had bought some shirts and such for the wedding just a week before. When I looked closer at the reciept it was time stamped for a time that I was at work. I asked him what is was, he got defensive and finally fessed up that he had gone shopping again. Once again it was in the attic. I Had him bring it down and show me. I asked again if he needed to do this and that I could accept it if he did. He assured me that he doesn't want to, he just doesn't know how to stop. We padlocked the attic shut, and I have the keys on my person at all times.

Now to the last part of this story. I was looking up a video on YouTube using his phone. And in his previous searches had searched for "how to make Breast implants" or something along those lines. I was planning to ask but not let it bother me because I knew he had been dressing. There was one other search "27 m to f" that one bothered me. Because all the related videos are trans(?) (forgive me, I'm not sure what the proper term is, I think it's transgender though?). I know I have a double standard here because I can accept men who are becoming women (despite not understanding) however I know I couldn't marry a man who was wanting to become a woman. I lost it, I was more confused than I ever had been. He said he had been looking as sites like these and was looking into it because he wasn't sure where he fit in, what his title is, and why he does this.

He has been dressing since he was about 16. He says he is certain that he likes being a guy and being with girls. I want to believe him so badly. I know he wouldn't hurt me intentionally. I just feel like I can't get out of this wedding if I wanted to. Part of me does want to leave on the basis that he can't seem to be honest and talk openly with me. But the other, much larger part of me loves this man to death and only wants to see him be the best he can be whether or not that means dressing. One of the friends I have that knows swears he's going to come home one day with his boyfriend, however my roommate in college (who happens to be lesbian, and I love that girl to death) doesn't think that is the case and thinks it's a manifestation of his inability to express his femininity in the outside world. I honestly think he straight, and this is a way to relieve stress, not to mention the thrill of being "bad" and going against society's standards.

I'm sorry this has been so long. I just don't know what to do to help, he wants to stop and I'm more than alright with that, he knows I would support his choices should he decide he wants to continue to dress. I figured this would be a good place to turn for some support, I don't have any friends that dress, and the one person I knew that did is gay - which doesn't help my fears.

Thanks for your help, and sorry it's so long.
Taielyn

[cheryl reeves]

taielyn,hate to be bearer of bad news but he isnt going to stop,he will find somewhere else to do it. if you came here for advice on helping him quit,you came to the wrong place..the reason your fiance' has difficulty talking to you its because of shame,been through that with my wife. now if yqou want to understand your fiance',you came to the right place. men have oroblems talking about the desire to dress as women,that is fact. want to surprise your fiance'? go to the attic find one of his nice female outfits with the works,lay it out for him and tell him you want to meet the other woma and go from their. our son knows about my dressing and has no prob with it. this will always be the pink flamingo in the rm. force him to quit and he will wind up resenting you..like the old saying goesw you need to evaluate your relationship now and not 11-20 yrs from now when the marriage is destroyed from lack of honesty..sorry to sound so crud...

[Shaedow]

Hi Taielyn, as another GG SO, I feel ur pain. I was just as confused, hurt, & upset as u are when my SO first came out to me. He pushed too hard within the first wk after telling me, & I lost it. I seriously considered where our relationship was headed & if we even had one. We were able to start communicating, at my pace, as I could process the information & get it sorted out in my head.

It sounds like u are well on ur way to good communication, although perhaps he is not talking as much as u would like him to. I tried asking the "why" question myself, & the only answer I got was "to relieve stress" (of being a male & having the huge responsibilities that go along with that) & "getting in touch with" his "feminine side." I think why may be the wrong question to ask; from what I have seen & read on this site, most of the CDers don't know why themselves; it is just something they are driven to do.

I also worried about how far my SO would take his CDing, as I knew I could not live with him as a woman. He assured me that he would never want to be a woman full-time; he enjoys being a male too much; and that he would stop dressing if I wanted him to. I cannot do that to him tho. I love him too much to ask him to give up an integral part of himself; even at the potential expense of my own happiness & comfort.

I understand also how u feel about him having nicer things than u do. My SO has not only nicer clothes than I really ever had, but he has more of them. I have exactly 2 pairs of heels with me; he has close to a dozen. I have one dress & a coupla of skirts with me; he has mini skirts & long dresses. When he started buying even more dresses for himself, my first reactions were where did he think he was going to wear all these dresses & why wasn't he considering my lack of clothes to dress up & go out? And yes, we have been out together with him fully dressed; skirt & blouse, hose, heels, & make up. The first time was to a movie & I was uncomfortable, thinking everyone was looking at me with him. The second time was to dinner. I felt more comfortable that time. It seemed like one girl looked at him, okay stared, but I think that had more to do with a botched makeup job that evening. We plan more trips out together, as finances allow, & I believe it will become easier for both of us the more we go out.

I am truly sorry that ur SO has seemed to feel it necessary to hide things from u. My SO didn't tell me until after we had known each other approx. 3 yrs (2 online & 1 actually living together). I felt upset that he hadn't told me sooner, so that I had the opportunity to process & decide if it was something I could live with BEFORE I picked up myself & my cat & came to Texas from Maine to be with him.

As u will probably hear from others, communication is the most vital in any relationship but esp. in the relationship between a GG & a CDer. I am lucky that we have been able to talk thru everything & come to terms with each other & our thoughts & feelings. I hope the same for u.

I hope this has been helpful to u. When u have gotten ur first 10 posts & are able to use PM feature, please feel free to msg me & we can discuss our mutual experiences.

Take care of urself,

Shaedow
GG

[AllieSF]

Sorry to hear about your issues. First, it sounds like you are trying real hard to understand and that is a definite plus in a deepening relationship when this side of life is included. I personally recommend that you postpone the wedding date before it really is too late. There are a million reasons you can use to explain to others, but going forward right now does not appear to me to be a good idea. I would also suggest that both of you go to counseling with a good gender experienced therapist to better understand what is happening and what may happen in the future regarding your fiancé's desires, urges and needs regarding his crossdressing. With both of you there, you get to hear and participate in both sides of the conversation and can ask all the questions that you can think of when there. I would guess that he knows that whatever is going on with himself will not go away and may or may not be deeper than what it appears to be. But, as many will probably say here, he is also just trying to understand himself too, which is definitely not easy, nor a simply black or white issue. There are many varying and confusing shades of gray mixed in too, and not necessarily the recent popular "50 Shades of Gray".

I wish you the best of luck. He sounds like a good person that may just need time to sort out who and what he is and how to fit this side of himself into his complete life with you.

[Taielyn]

I know he may never quit. I can accept that he dresses so long as he communicates with me.

I don't want to force him to quit, I know that won't work. However if he wants to quit I don't want to force him to keep dressing. He's very secretive and embarrassed by it.

I also know that right now I don't want to participate. If he came to me and told me he didn't want to stop I would try to accept it more and would try to get to the point that I could participate, but now isn't that time.

Thank you!! I have felt very alone. And I am so glad to hear of other couples that are functional.

[Shelly Preston]

Hi Taielyn

Welcome to the forum, Why not post a thread in the introduction section.

I am sure a lot of the guilt he feels is due to not telling you. We can be very good at keeping secrets as most of us thought at one time this would go away. That would have solved the problem of secrets, but sadly it not to be. Can some give up cross dressing yes I am sure they can but we don't here too many success stories hear about that. The good news is there are many happily married couples here who have been happy for a very long time.

There are lots of answers here. We have members here all over the transgender spectrum. Only your fiancé will know exactly where he fits.
I wish you both the best of luck.

[Dana44]

Taielyn, I am a CD'r and one thing I will say is that He is not necessarily gay. In a heterosexual relationship. MY SO is the most important to keep happy as I love her. It is so nice to have the support of your mate and I think love goes a little deeper than a typical relationship as it refreshes things more. She has posted here and I thought I would say something from a CD point of view. Communication is the most important thing. You have more command over him than you typically would and if he loves you he will accept your boundaries and what you expect in that relationship. Many of us has had to go through almost a lifetime until we just had to do it.

[Kate Simmons]

I could never get my wife to talk about it and she eventually left. You are willing to talk to him about it but like most of us guys he is reluctant, partly because he probably feels he shames his manhood and he will end up disappointing you.He has to find out it's okay to be in touch will all of his feelings and not be ashamed or afraid.That doesn't make him any less of a man. The key is communication. As long as you are willing to communicate, I think you only need to convince him of that. My GF and I talk about everything, including when I dress and go to the local club dancing. She even goes with me sometimes and it's great.One thing I have learned is that you cannot over communicate and if you truly love a person, you are always learning something new about them. That is the real life adventure, caring and sharing and no one feels alone or sad. Keep us posted on how things go Hon. :battingeyelashes::)

[Lorileah]

let me address the amount of clothing question because I have that issue myself. It isn't that he is getting clothes to go "out" he is getting clothes to placate himself. A kind of soothing to help him feel good about the feminine side of himself. I have enough dresses to wear a different one almost every day for a year. Some I have worn once. But I still buy. It isn't to be prettier than someone else, it is sort like hoarding. I need them...OK I don't need them but I NEED them

About being out with him. In my case it was opposite. I felt everyone staring at me. My GF took it in stride and owned it. But time made things easier and it wasn't long before I still noticed the double takes and stares but now I just smile and move on. When you get comfortable less will notice.

And hang onto each other. There is nothing in the world more important than sharing and supporting each other through this. If something should happen to make this go away and eithr of you are alone, you can see how much the other really meant to you.

Welcome :)

[Rachelakld]

Sorry to hear.
1) He can't stop, it screws our emotions in a bad way, makes us volatile and will break the relationship.
2) He must hide it from the one he loves, otherwise you will think him not manly, and he doesn't want you to think that (It's all about his internal image and what society has taught him is "correct" for his physical gender).

3) In life, everyone changes, our paths diverge or grow stronger and the future is never garrenteed to give anyone "their happy ever after" except in Disney movies.

My wife and 4 daughters have been very supportive, although wife will not go out with Rachel, as is her right, the kids have learned different behaviour, and only care about good vrs bad, not gender.

I do recommend you shop for his/her clothes together, otherwise you could find some financial difficulties ahead, eg $500 dress, vrs $200 dress and pay the electricity bill.

I did make my own breast forms, I enjoyed using resins etc from my Sci-Fi make up shop, but did badly burn my hand, so recommend he buys a cheap set to start with.

I've just turned 50, once I reach 60, my goal will be to take steroids and do serious body building, think my wife will object due to what it does to the heart, and the worry that younger girls might like my abs, so maybe I'll wait until I'm 70.

So my thoughts going forward, have a girls night (at home or out with her, to help change his/her body image issues) and remember "life is like a box of chocolates"

[Taielyn]

Thank you guys for your support, and your insight. I could not ever see him leaving the house dressed, unless it's like a pair of panties under his normal clothes. He's been doing this on and off for 10 years, and is very very aware of what people say and how they act. By nature he is not a very talkative person, I actually didn't even know he was interested in me until the day he asked me to be his girlfriend. I don't know if I would be opposed to going out into public with him, once I get comfortable seeing him dressed. i mentioned dressing with me in the house with him at lunch a few minutes ago, he shut the idea down completely. Telling me he didn't want to do it anymore and that he was taking what he bought last week to goodwill.

Am I wrong for supporting him in quitting? Even though I've told him I'll support him if he dresses?

[Dianne S]

I could not ever see him leaving the house dressed

Never say never...

I would say if you are having a hard time handling this, do not get married.

Relationship red-flags very rarely improve with time. Think very seriously about whether or not you can handle his need to CD.

[Taielyn]

I know I can handle the dressing. I also know with time I could grow to accept it more, and become comfortable with other things so long as it happens at my own pace. He hasn't lied to me about anything else, just this. That's my problem. I've proven to myself and to him that I can accept it, he's just so scared to talk about it that he simply won't. That's my concern with the whole thing, which, in my heart, I know can get better if we both try.

[TinaZ]

Hi Taielyn:

You sound like an amazing, caring, and patient person. He's very fortunate to have you as a partner.

You've already received some good advice, so I'll keep my remarks brief.

The good news - your fiance is still the same person. Those qualities that made you fall in love are genuinely him. You've discovered the hard way that there's more to him, but the core of who he is hasn't changed.

The real news - he is transgender. Meaning, part of him identifies strongly female and the dressing is his way to connect to that part. This will ebb and flow, but it will never change, no matter how many padlocks are used.

The bad news - he's being a butt in his handling of this. Lots of people around here would be thrilled if their partners were half as willing as you to understand this. I'm no counselor, but my opinion is he NEEDS to be honest and upfront. It's possible to merge this into a normal life, but it won't happen if he keeps hiding.

Couple of other points - don't worry about his browser history. Transgender issues are huge and no matter where he is on the spectrum, he'll be curious about things ahead of him and behind him. Don't worry about his sexuality. Most cross dressers are straight. Finally, even when you're at your wit's end with this stuff, please keep in mind that he likely grew up in a culture where being called a girl was the nuclear weapon of insults. It's stupid and childish, but during our developmental years, nothing could be worse than being seen as feminine. That stigma is hard to overcome, which is why we have such a difficult time being honest about this stuff - even with people who deserve that honesty.

Good luck!

P.S. - Just saw your post about Goodwill. Do him and yourself a favor - if he must "purge" his things, take it to storage. We all regret the stuff we've given away.

[cheryl reeves]

if you want to confront this,then it sounds like you may need to take the first step.

[Kate Simmons]

Personally, I've found the best way to address inner "demons" is to confront them directly. The other thing is that by accepting his feelings, it's puts him more in control than the process of CDing. The only real way to "beat" it I've found is to make it a conscious choice of whether to do or not rather than let it remain a compulsion. :)

[Welshgirl]

Hi Taielyn,

I am married to a CDer, who has recently gone from wearing panties under his clothes occasionally to being full time in ladies' clothes (apart from the very few times when he really can't). I had a different experience to yours, in that Pamela (my SO) went through his process of discovering that he was a cross dresser with me alongside him every step of the way. I was with him when he was buying his first femme clothes in the shops, and I was the one who paid for them; I was the one who went with him to buy his first ladies' shoes, his first wig, his first makeup; I was the one who took him to get a makeover so that he could find the right shade of foundation.

I really do appreciate that finding out by surprise must be a huge shock, and it is a massive learning curve for both parties. The difference is, he has had a long time to get used to the idea, and you didn't have that luxury.


A little over 2 years ago I was packing to go back down to Oregon where we are from for my Mom's wedding, and I found a huge bag full of women's clothing. I was very confused, upset, and frankly scared. This person I had been living with and had discussed marrying was suddenly completely foreign to me.

He was still just the same guy, and all the sides to him that you knew were the same - he just had an added dimension that you didn't know about.


I insisted he go see a counselor to get to the bottom of why he dresses. All he could tell me was that it helps relieve stress, and I was (still kind of am) convinced there is a deeper reason.

If you read some of the back threads on this site, you will find that this is the reason why a great many men dress. Pamela tells me that he is happier, more relaxed, less angry, less aggressive and much more emotionally sensitive now that he has let his feminine side in too. There may be other reasons, but if that is the one that he has given you then I would believe it to be the truth because if he has noticed it enough to comment on it, then it is really happening for him.


He had been dressing again for 5 months and even though I have been asking he hadn't told me he was having problems.

Why do you assume that him dressing again equates to him having problems? He may not be able to resist the urge to experience the calmness and relaxation that it brings. For Pamela, it is an urge, a compulsion even, but one that is of great benefit to him and to the way he relates to (and interacts with) the rest of the world. It is a shame that he found it necessary to hide it from you, but if he couldn't cope with negative reactions to it (whether in the past, or yours, or in his imagination or fears) then perhaps that was why he did it. It may have been something that he has hidden for the whole time so far, and that may be how he is used to it being.


At this point I had it out with myself that if this is something he needed to do I would find a way to be alright with it.

There is plenty of support for you too, both on the forum and in the form of counselling for you on your own or as a couple. It is definitely something that cross dressers need to do, and I have my doubts that this will ever change. Rather than just being alright with it, how about finding a way of embracing all aspects of your partner? It is a part of him, and has been for a long time.


I wasn't sure how I would explain that (heaven forbid I had to) to my future kids

We have five children, all late teens/early twenties. They all know about their dad, and are uniformly not at all bothered. Their reactions ranged from 'cool' to 'whatever makes him happy'. If your kids were brought up with it as normal, there would be no need for you to tell them. If you waited to tell them, and insisted that he hide it from them until you were ready to tell them, they would pick up on any disquiet that you have with it, and you would be perpetuating your family pattern of not being open-minded. There are plenty of families which are outside the range of what society deems 'normal' - do you think that if he was in a wheelchair you would hide it from the children until they were old enough for you to have to tell them? That would just make them less understanding of diversity and less accepting of difference when they encounter it.


approximately $500.00 worth of clothes, again - much nicer stuff than I have ever had. (I get my VS bras during the semi annual sale and consider it a treat).

Pamela spent £2000 in a month on his new wardrobe. I don't think I have spent that much on myself in five years. I know what you mean!


I asked again if he needed to do this and that I could accept it if he did. He assured me that he doesn't want to, he just doesn't know how to stop. We padlocked the attic shut, and I have the keys on my person at all times.

He may never find a way to stop. Him feeling guilty about it is not going to help anyone, and may make him less happy all round than if he felt accepted. I'm sorry, but I can't believe that you have padlocked all his stuff away from him. It won't make him stop - if he wants to dress, he will just go out and buy more things when he can't resist any longer, and then he will almost certainly come to resent you for trying to stop him.


I know I have a double standard here because I can accept men who are becoming women (despite not understanding) however I know I couldn't marry a man who was wanting to become a woman. I lost it, I was more confused than I ever had been. He said he had been looking as sites like these and was looking into it because he wasn't sure where he fit in, what his title is, and why he does this.

Fair enough on both parts - if you get married it is usually because you see a future ahead of you that includes children and family, not necessarily losing that option to him transitioning. For him, he needs to spend some time with a proper gender-specialist counsellor to sort out what he wants. That is not something that he can rush, and if he doesn't accept where he is now then he will need to find out somehow.


He says he is certain that he likes being a guy and being with girls. I want to believe him so badly.

I would believe him. There are enough posts on this forum that give all sides of this, and guys seem to know from early on whether they are hetero, bi or gay. Cross dressing does not automatically mean 'gay'. Quite the opposite - gay guys are men who like other men, they are not generally men who like other men who are dressing up as women. They are attracted to men, not women. As far as I understand it, cross dressing is a way of allowing men to express their feminine side, which society denies to them from an early age. The vast majority of CDers on this site are firmly hetero.

Please don't let your fears hold you back from having a full and loving relationship with your partner. There is nothing 'wrong' with him, and the sad truth is that the more you try and make him out to be doing something shameful or disgusting, the more he will hide it from you and the less trusting and loving your relationship will be. He is who he is, and you may as well ask him to stop having blue eyes as ask him to stop dressing.

[Dianne S]

That's my concern with the whole thing, which, in my heart, I know can get better if we both try.

I hope you're right; that's very encouraging. I don't mean to sound negative, but I would postpone the wedding so you can see if things happen "at your own pace". Trust me, ending a long relationship is far, far worse than pausing one that's just beginning.

And I'm not giving you this advice because I think there's something wrong with crossdressing... obviously I do not! But I recognize that partners of crossdressers sometimes can't handle it and there's nothing wrong with that either.

[Cheryl T]

I have to use the phrase ... "Been there, done that".
I've walked in his shoes all my life and from my perspective YES, he may want to stop. YES, he may feel guilt and shame for doing it because it's just not what's expected of men. YES, he's probably afraid to admit that he enjoys this because he's afraid it will hurt you.
Just keep in mind that he has been involved in this since BEFORE he met you. YOU are NOT the reason in any way, shape or form. You mentioned he had nicer things than you. This is NOT a competition ! He's NOT trying to replace or supplement you in any way. This is NOT about YOU !! It's totally about him. My wife went through the same situation. She took a long time to understand. She thought it was her fault...it wasn't. She thought she was not fulfilling my needs...couldn't be farther from the truth.
What the truth is begins long before I met her or you met him. He said he began dressing at 16. Probably out of curiosity and found something releasing, enjoyable, comfortable. Why any of us begin this journey NO ONE KNOWS !! The truth is that many if not most of us are ashamed to admit it to the one we love the most because we are desperately afraid of losing them. Sure, you can say that won't happen, but that doesn't change the nagging thought in the back of our minds that One Day...things will change and you will leave.
Personally, I was previously engaged to a fabulous woman. I decided to come clean as I had never lied to her about anything and I wanted ours to be a clean start together. Her words, as she handed back the engagement ring were, "I want a man, not a Freak !". Fast forward to current wife and ask me why I didn't tell her before we married. I'll give you 3 guesses and the first two don't count.

It's our inner fear, fear of losing you, fear of appearing "less a man" in your eyes that keeps so many of us from admitting how much a part of us this really is. It's not about sex, it's not that we're Gay. It's because that becomes the first thought on everyone's mind.
I personally believe that we are born with something genetic that predisposes us to express our inner femininity in an outward way. Some of us more than others and they are our TS sisters. Some of us less and they prefer single articles of clothing and are considered Fetishists. We are all the same to varying degrees, but we are all different in how we choose to express this inner woman.

Fast forward...
My wife is now fully supportive. I can dress however and whenever I wish and I do. I am no longer shy about being in my lingerie around her or doing my makeup as she watches. That took time for me as I had hid for so many years. That closet is a dark and lonely place and stepping into the light can be a frightening thing.
We go out frequently as girl friends. She goes everywhere with me. I share everything with her and we have grown so much closer because of this being a part of us. I help her with clothing suggestions and makeup tips (I wear more than she does obviously) and we share clothes as we are near in size. I can look at a mannequin and say to her, "I wish that came in my size" and have her say "your boobs are too big for that top" and we laugh, sharing that joke in public.

The one thing that allowed us to work through this is COMMUNICATION. No judgment involved, just open, honest communication. It won't come in an hour, it may not come in a month, but if you ask questions with curiosity and LOVE and accept his answers without criticism you can find common ground. You sound like you have a deep love that you share. Let that be your guide.
Just remember...it's not about you....it's about him.

Sorry everyone for the podium speech. Just was too close to home to be shorter.

[Taielyn]

Why do you assume that him dressing again equates to him having problems?

He had told me he was quitting, I meant that he was having problems stopping.



Rather than just being alright with it, how about finding a way of embracing all aspects of your partner? It is a part of him, and has been for a long time.

I'm willing to try, I just need to embrace it on my own time. He hasn't expressed to me (with the exception of just doing it) the desire to keep dressing. I'm torn between supporting him in stopping, as he says he wants to now, and supporting him in continuing dressing. I've tried to walk the fine line between both, explaining to him that I can accept and support him and also trying to give him suggestions to channel his stress relief to other places (like working out, riding his bike, things like that).



I'm sorry, but I can't believe that you have padlocked all his stuff away from him.

The bag of clothes is next to my dresser currently. I wouldn't lock his stuff away from him, that's cruel. I locked it so I knew he couldn't hide it there anymore. We talked about it prior to installing the locks, he was alright with it. My attic isn't finished, so he balances on beams if he's up there. He's a 6 ft 2, big-boned guy, and he hides it on the other side of some venting, if he falls up there he could get really hurt, and destroy some rather important ductwork.

[Pat]

You're getting great advice I'll add a few things:

First, reassurances -- the majority of crossdressers are straight. The majority of men who crossdress report that they have no desire to become a woman (that is, they ARE transgender, but they are NOT Transsexual.) From what I see in the forum, most are ecstatic to have their SO involved once they get their own head straight about what's going on for them.

There's an education issue that has to be dealt with. Our society has only recently become (somewhat) understanding of transgender people. Part of that means we don't know a lot about them. Which means he never learned about how to be a crossdresser from his family or at school. He's had to learn as he goes. YOU also have never learned about how crossdressers act or what a long life with a crossdressing partner will look like. The thing that is changing is you can find places like this where information is exchanged. He can too. There are also books available on Amazon or elsewhere that cover the topic that you can both read. Between the two you can find out what to expect, answer some questions, get tips and advice. Take advantage of that and make sure he does too. Figuring it all out without help is a sure way to fail.

You two might want to find places where he can express himself out in the open. Trans friendly bars, vacation resorts, etc. He may not want to go outside now, but everything i've seen indicates that crossdressers are happiest when they can take their persona into the daylight.

Another thing I'd say is don't worry about explaining this to the kids. They'll probably explain it to you. The current generation is getting exposure to gender issues and are very tolerant. It shocks me sometimes how cool they are about it.

The only way this can become a disaster is if you guys don't talk about it. It sounds like you're doing that and he's not. You have to get him talking and sharing with you. He probably is afraid that no matter what you say, you'll see him as less of a man if you're in touch with his crossdressing. The only way to convince him otherwise is to engage him on it. If you're OK with it ask him about fashions ("would you wear that?" "Wow look at that... imagine how it feels.") help him with his makeup and teach him how to select outfits that would work on the street. Take him out (dressed) for drives at night, absolutely insist he dress for Halloween, etc.

It's a little unfair and I'm aware that I'm suggesting you do a lot of work. Hopefully it will ease up if you can get him out of his shell. The shell is made up of fear, self-loathing and misery and he really needs your help to get out of it. And there's a very important part of him in there.

I think you're one of the coolest people I've run into for wanting to understand and for sticking by him through repeated incidents. Kudos to you.

[RADER]

Hi Taielyn:
My wife to be found out about my dressing on our second date.
She under stood that I liked to wear womans clothes.
After we where married, we set up some simple rules;
never embarrass her by going out dressed; Only dress around
the house, and under dress as so nobody See's or can tell.
And lastly do not shave the abundance of chest hair I have
because she loved to run her fingers through it.
Maybe the two of you could strike up some deal that works for you.
Rader

[Nyla F]

Hi Taielyn!

Congratulations on making such a bold move and reaching out for help! You are certainly making an effort to understand your fiancé's crossdressing. On the other hand, from what you have told us about your fiancé it seems he has a long way to go to understand and accept himself. That feeling of guilt, trying to quit but not being able to, it makes it difficult to understand one's self because instead of exploring your feelings you end up supressing them. I wouldn't be surprised if your fiancé isn't able to answer many of your questions because he is denying this part of himself. Communication is going to be difficult.

I think it would be a good idea to postpone the wedding until he can accept himself, get rid of the guilt, and better understand and communicate what he needs. At the same time you can try to understand your own feelings about the crossdressing and what you are comfortable with. Then you can decide if this is something you can live with and whether or not your needs can be met.

I've been in that place of guilt, shame, and denial, and tried to quit many times. It was personal counseling and couples counseling that really started the process of me healing myself and then me and my wife healing our marriage. The counseling didn't "fix" me or my wife. I still crossdress, and she still doesn't want to have anything to do with it. But we are now fulfilling each others needs better and communicate better. I feel I can now balance my need to crossdress with the other parts of my life.

So please continue with the counseling.

Nyla

[Alice_2014_B]

For starters it is really good that you have been supportive of him and his cross-dressing. It is much easier, and fun, when one’s significant other supports dressing up, even more so to participate. Just to give him the room and time, even if you do not participate in shopping and clothing/makeup tips for example, would mean a lot.
Anything beyond cross-dressing, such transitioning, I have no experience or advice on; however, plenty on the forum here do.

[~Joanne~]

Welshgirl has a very strong head on her shoulders and I agree with pretty much everything she said. This never goes away Taielyn that's the most important thing you have to understand. Doesn't matter how many counselor's you "insist" that he go see, it's going to come back time and time again. This isn't something we can turn on or off, if that was the case a lot of us would have turned it off a long time ago.

You are actually one of the luckier ones in the fact that you know about this before you got married. A lot of SO's didn't have that knowledge and it breaks the marriage almost every time. I say almost because there are exceptions to every rule. Just so you know, it's not unnatural for a CD to do a bunch of searches in the quest for answers or to see where this road is heading for them on a personal level. I know I did a LOT of searching, what you find is very little other than porn. That doesn't mean he watched it. I think jumping to conclusions is your main problem right now especially when you have a friend saying stupid crap like "until he comes home with his boyfriend". I have real news for you, most of us are hetro.

The thing I found the most disturbing of everything you typed was that Soma gave you private and confidential information over a chat, freely and without any proof of who they were talking to. Either they do nothing to protect their customers, or you lied yourself and pretended to be him to get private information. This alone could be a reason as to why he doesn't share with you. You invaded his privacy, after all, your not a Mrs. yet. I am wondering how you would feel if he did the same?

I do wish you both the best of luck though, this road will be a rough one that you may or may not want to travel together. If given the amount of time to rebuild the trust, it can work out as you do seem to want to try to understand, but you also have to give some space too. We hear it alot around here that a SO should be given the time to read, understand, and adjust but so do we, after all, this isn't a secret we run around telling everyone. If you give him the space, I am sure he'll come around to sharing more with you.

[docrobbysherry]

I have good news and bad news Taielyn. Let me give u the bad news first:

No one here can give u the proper advice. Because no one here knows what "stages" your SO will go thru next. Much less what he'll be like in 5 or 10 years.

Your problem(s) r not because he dresses. They're mainly that u r trying to make grown up decisions before either of u have fully matured. I warned my daughter NOT to get married at 24. Now, she's separated at 28 with 2 kids. Seems she found out her SO is a stick in the mud and she didn't realize how much fun partying was until they split up!:doh:

The good news is:
U r NOT separated with 2 kids at age 28 yet! Pull the plug on your seemingly rushed marriage. Give him the time to find out who he is and what he wants. And, u the time to figure out if you're really ready to saddle that horse!:)

[char GG]

Welcome Taielyn,
It seems that you are being a very supportive SO. It is bothersome that he doesn't seem to be open and honest with you.

Others on this site have suggested postponing your wedding. That seems to be a great idea. Your SO already seems to be hiding things including his feelings. Until he can properly communicate with you, it may be wise to step back.

Consider yourself lucky that you are working on these things prior to marriage.

I wish you both all of the luck in the world.

[MissTee]

Hey Taielyn and welcome to the forum.

You've shared an all too common story. You are struggling to understand, and he is struggling to accept himself and his need. I do think you should set the wedding aside until you work these things out, or decide it's not for you.

It can work and there are many experiences here that demonstrate that. My wife and I have been together for 40 years and she is supportive. I like being a man, don't want to transition, don't want to go out, and am completely content being able to dress with the wife and stay inside. I'm completely hetero, too. That said, it took a long time for me to be OK with dressing and not to feel like a gender criminal because of my need to dress.

Good luck!

[Di]

Hi another GG here.
I think he is ashamed and has hid it for years and when he says he wants to quit he means it.BUT only because he is ashamed , embarrased and wants to make you happy does he say this.....in his mind he means it.
All these years here no one I know of has every quit forever, sometimes yrs or months but it really is just a part of them and thats it.
My advice is to tell him no more hiding things....
THEN figure out what you can accept even if it is a private time to dress or whatever you feel comfortable with To make this work .
he is going to have to accept himself and stop hiding things.

Right now it seems over whelming but trust me it can work and end up not being a huge thing in your life.
Also remind him he has had YEARS to come to grips with it ( sounds like he has not totally) you can not be expected to be on the same page with this in a snap.

add
I suggest getting a dresser or space he can just have his things might help with the hiding and it will be out in the open.

It has to be about both of you and you can find a way to make it work

[Alaina R]

You've gotten really good advice on this board. I'm with those who suggest that you hold off on the marriage. Both of you need to find a way to deal with this in a better way. It sounds like you are really trying although, as best I can tell, he is not dealing with it at all. If he cannot be honest with himself he cannot be honest with you. That lack of openness and communication (and comfort) can be corrosive over time.

[Brooke B]

Hi taielyn,
You are so courageous. You seem like a very understanding person. This will be a hard subject for him to open up with but my only bit of help is when he is fully willingly ready to talk, be the strong supportive shoulder for him. Good luck

[Jenniferathome]

Hi Taielyn,

It is incredibly brave to you to reach out. This cross dressing thing is a whole other universe to the average person. The fact that you re asking questions says a lot about you.

I am a cross dresser (duh) and married. I came out to my wife about 4 years ago after more than 20 years of marriage and even more years dating. Talk about shocking! I am straight, always have been and always will be. I know this. Some here don't have this certainty. This cross dressing thing has a lot of flavors.

I picked out several comments you made and wanted to respond to each. I added the number, of course, to help keep us aligned. So see below for commentary and I hope it helps.




1)... I was very confused, upset, and frankly scared. This person I had been living with and had discussed marrying was suddenly completely foreign to me.

2)...I insisted he go see a counselor to get to the bottom of why he dresses. All he could tell me was that it helps relieve stress, and I was (still kind of am) convinced there is a deeper reason. He went to see the counselor for nearly 2 months and then told me he didn't need to go anymore.

3)... and there was a filer from Soma, ..., with his name on it and a customer number. I asked him about it, and he said he had no idea how they got his name. ...

4)...and he agreed that we need to go to couples counseling. ...

5)... I asked him what is was, he got defensive and finally fessed up that he had gone shopping again. Once again it was in the attic. I Had him bring it down and show me. I asked again if he needed to do this and that I could accept it if he did. He assured me that he doesn't want to, he just doesn't know how to stop. ...

6)... He said he had been looking as sites like these and was looking into it because he wasn't sure where he fit in, what his title is, and why he does this.

7) He has been dressing since he was about 16. He says he is certain that he likes being a guy and being with girls. I want to believe him so badly. I know he wouldn't hurt me intentionally. I just feel like I can't get out of this wedding if I wanted to. Part of me does want to leave on the basis that he can't seem to be honest and talk openly with me. ...

1) This is completely normal. IT is shocking. Likely you are wondering WHAT ELSE is he hiding. Well, THAT is what needs to come out. Still, do try to be objective about this. If you were him, would you want to tell anyone? It's horribly embarrassing and such an admission is like telling the woman you love that you are not really a man. He absolutely should have told you in advance. I should have told my wife but I didn't. I made excuses but I was simply a coward. It's a tough one.

2) There is no bottom to be found. There is no "reason" so give up on that notion. I have cross dressed since I was about 7. I needed it for some reason that remains a mystery. This is the one thing you will never understand because we cross dressers don't understand it. Stress relief is part of it but you are right, it is not all of it. That part will remain a mystery for all. I for one, think genetics are responsible. Just like being gay, this is a spin on some gene that makes us want this. Others disagree.

3) This is a real problem. Lies AFTER you fond him out are totally unreasonable and unforgivable. Hold him accountable. He should be all in. He may not be able to answer every question but he has to try.

4) I think this is a good thing. A third party can help draw out the issues without the emotion so they can be discussed.

5) Bullshit. He doesn't want to get caught. This is a lie and this is a real serious problem. This is what counseling should focus on.

6) Could be true. As I mentioned above, WE cross dressers don't understand it. But I suspect he is holding something back. His MO is to lie. Again, that's bad.

7) He may be right or he may only think this. You HAVE TO get counseling to dig into this issue. On marriage, there is no reason you can not postpone this. You have big issues in front of you and marriage adds more. Don't bury your head on this. A delay could be the fix for this.


I know he may never quit. I can accept that he dresses so long as he communicates with me.

1) I don't want to force him to quit, I know that won't work. However if he wants to quit I don't want to force him to keep dressing. He's very secretive and embarrassed by it.

2) I also know that right now I don't want to participate. If he came to me and told me he didn't want to stop I would try to accept it more and would try to get to the point that I could participate, but now isn't that time....

1) He doesn't want to quit. He wants his problems to go away. Quitting will NEVER happen. Stopping for a time is possible, but the result will be him turing into a pressure cooker. His personality will change and he will get moody, depressed, short tempered. It's not good. Strangely, he does;t want to discuss it but that is a HUGE source of relief!

2) You don't have to participate and you can still be supportive. Supportive is being willing to talk about it or willing to allow him his "sparkle time." Don't get caught up in "helping" or joining him in this. If you are open to discussion, you are doing more than enough.



1) ...I could not ever see him leaving the house dressed, ...

2) ... i mentioned dressing with me in the house with him at lunch a few minutes ago, he shut the idea down completely. Telling me he didn't want to do it anymore and that he was taking what he bought last week to goodwill.

3)Am I wrong for supporting him in quitting? Even though I've told him I'll support him if he dresses?

1) Don't make that assumption. I never thought about going out in my early days and then it became a must do. I describe it as a validation of myself without saying anything.

2) He's not quitting. Purging all his purchases is a waste as he will be buying again soon. Stop him from doing this. Set the clothes aside until you two get a chance to see a counselor.


I know I can handle the dressing. I also know with time I could grow to accept it more, and become comfortable with other things so long as it happens at my own pace. He hasn't lied to me about anything else, just this. That's my problem. ...

Yep, this is THE issue. If he can't talk to you your future is doomed. Do a reset. Pause everything. Get in front of a professional couples counselor, preferably one with transgender experience and talk. yes, he will be embarrassed. Tough.

Taielyn, no marriage can survive lying. He's both lying to himself and to you. This is no way to start a marriage. He needs to know that. Take the bull by the balls and tell him it's counseling or nothing. He opens up or you walk. You need to shake him to his core. Right now, lying about his cross dressing is more important to him than you.

Best of luck,

Jenn

[Tracii G]

Welcome to the forum first off.
Its a good think that you came here for help in trying to understand what is going on with him.
Sounds like to me he hasn't come to grips with himself yet.Self acceptance is the first thing that needs to happen before he can open up to you about everything.
I'm probably going to get slammed for even saying this but I have to because its a trust thing.
You went thru his stuff thats a no no you went thru his phone looking for evidence a no no again.
If you do things like that no wonder he won't open up around you.It may be because he is scared you are going to tell everyone hence he won't trust you.
You know if you tell a GF about whats going on between you two it will be all over town in a matter of days in some shape or form.
I would think most guys would be horrified if something like that got out.That could be part of his reason for not talking to you about it.
If I were in a relationship how would it look me dragging stuff out in front of him asking whats this? Not showing must trust is it?
What is he going to think you might ask? OMG he has been thru all my stuff I can't trust him at all.
Trust is a huge thing and it goes both ways.

[UNDERDRESSER]

Just so you know where this advice is coming from, I thought of myself as a crossdresser, and I told my GF that's what I was, before we started dating properly. I do not now think of myself that way, but technically I still am. My needs and drives have changed over the last 2 years, mostly because of the way my GF reacted, and the way she lets me explore myself.

Anyway, I wouldn't dump the clothes on the goodwill, eventually, maybe start putting it up on ebay, probably hasn't been worn much. For now, either he uses them as he needs to, or box them up for a while. First, he, and you, need to understand that crossdressing is not bad, of itself. it isn't even that uncommon. He really needs to get it into his head, that's difficult, because of the problems it can cause. It's not commonly accepted in the mainstream, but that is mostly it not being understood. it took me a while to get past the feelings of guilt, and shame, and feeling an outsider, this place helped to get me started on that road, and my GF has helped even more, I still have away to go. A good gender therapist or counsellor is almost a necessity for you two I think. Together, and him on his own probably. The fact that he has lied may indicate other problems, but accepting this in himself can be a huge hurdle to get over, and it may be that nothing else will have the same hold on him as this guilt. It could be said that he wasn't lying, and he does want to stop it, but as others have said, not many of us can rid ourselves of this, and while some can suppress it for a while, doing so can make some seriously unpleasant people to be around. I have no clue where this will take him, there are so many forms, or flavours, some end up finding, or making, an alter ego, and donning that persona at whatever intervals they need, some blend their 2 personalities into a sort of in-between gender, male, but with somewhat feminine style. Yes, a few take on some sort of transition, be it partial, or full surgical conversion. That's rare though, and from what you've said, unlikely.

Tell him, if you think it fits with what your view is, that this isn't a problem if he needs it, but he must get it clarified with some professional help. He has to find a good counsellor or therapist, and at least get past the idea that it's wrong. It isn't wrong, it's just different. If he won't do that, it is extremely likely to come back. If he disagrees with that assessment, point out to him that he has no idea why he does this, how on earth can he be so sure he can control it if he doesn't know where it is coming from?

My opinion is that the suppression has to stop, acceptance has to take place, without that you can't start to peel back the layers and understand, or at least find the shape of, what drives this. With the guilt and shame blocking the view, he's not seeing things clearly yet. if he won't do that, or you can't accept it, then cancel the wedding. If you can start that road, then put a hold on the wedding until you can both start to get a handle on this.

I will say you are very special person to be taking the attitude you have, and he should consider himself lucky.

[DebbieL]

Taielyn,
It's very hard for you as a woman to understand how hard it is for a man to be a cross-dresser (or transgender), let alone tell someone he really loves, that he is a cross-dresser. Keep in mind that there is a spectrum of gender identity usually rated 1-6 with 1 being cis-gender, 2 being a fetish dresser, 3 being a cross-dresser, 4 being a public cross-dresser, 5 wanting to transition but not critical, and 6 is the "Transition or die" group.

Boys who are feminine growing up are often brutally assaulted on a regular basis, often starting as young as 5 years old, and often by large groups of 10-15 boys at a time. Imagine going to school every day, knowing that you would have 10-15 boys hitting you before school, kicking you during recess, kicking and hitting you during gym, and then beating you with sticks on the way home. Usually there are names that go with these beatings like "Sissy", "Fairy", and far worse. Often feminine boys are beaten because they are attractive to some boys who don't want to admit that they are attracted to a boy, no matter how feminine. Other boys participate in the assault because if they don't, they will be targeted as well.

Many of us have told girlfriends or girl friends too soon and have been seriously hurt. What was a closely guarded secret becomes gossip and spreads like wild-fire, which leads to more violence. In other cases, a serious love interest may not only reject us, but may also spread false information, such as that we are gay, that we like boys, or worse. This can often lead to more dire consequences. So the fact that he told you a secret he has kept for many years, possibly a decade or more, is a pretty good sign that he loves you so much he can barely imagine life without you. But he can't live a lie either. He has literally put his life on the line for you.

Being transgender is not a "phase", a "fantasy", or a "delusion". Often there are true medical reasons for these feelings, including the actual makeup of the brain. There are some boys who have female skeletal structure, facial structure, mannerisms, and a few may even have female body parts or missing or deformed boy body parts. The medical condition is "Gender Ambiguity" and is commonly referred to as Intersex. Being intersex does not mandate being transgender, and vice-versa, but they are very often related.

You boyfriend sounds like he's fairly low on the spectrum. He may be quite content to limit his dressing to home, with or without you. Keep in mind that this may be where his more intimate, sensitive, caring, and sensitive nature have to live.

The thing you need to look at is your attraction to him. There is a very good chance that you were actually attracted to many of his feminine traits. Many women are attracted to feminine or males because they are more sensitive, caring, they listen better, they are more romantic, they enjoy kissing and cuddling more, and more willing to let the woman take control or make requests. Often the women who are attracted to these males are very strong, secure, confident, and powerful women who have no trouble leading teams, managing others, and getting what they want. To a feminine man, these are traits that make you attractive to him. The fact that you made him see a counselor and he did it with very little argument indicates how much he cares, and also demonstrates your power and his desire for you to have that power.

You refer to implants, which suggests that you are not well informed about this world at all, and are probably just now starting to find out about the subject. Cross-dressers often have the desire to fully present as female, to look like they actually are female. To do this, they may use breast forms. These can range from home made "fillers" such as bags of rice or beans, to foam, to forms made of a gel that is quite realistic. Forms can range in price for free (rice bags) to $10 "silicone bra" at WalMart to $300 forms that can be attached for several days in a row.

It is unethical for a therapist, such as a CSW or PhD psychologist to try and force or convince a transgender client to accept their birth gender and stop the dressing. The reason for this is that it can push them deeper into secrecy, trigger depression, actually make their gender dysphoria more intense, and could even lead to suicide.

If your boyfriend wanted to transition (actually become a woman), he would be required to do the "Real Life Test", which means living as the chosen gender as much as possible for at least a year, then starting hormones and living full-time as female, and legally changing name and gender. Some will decide not to have the Gender Reassignment Surgery (GRS), but will continue to live as female the rest of their lives. At this point, it does not seem that your boyfriend is headed in this direction.

You should find a counselor with with solid experience in working with Gender Dysphoria. He will probably go to around 5-8 sessions, first in male form, then perhaps in female form, and at that point, you will see the counselor together. The counselor may wish to see you alone a few times as well.

The real challenge is not getting him to stop, but deciding how the two of you will relate to the girl side of him. One option may be to let him explore this in private, at home, when you are not there. This means that you will need to schedule 3-4 days a week when you will not be there and he will. Some men take jobs where they "go on the road" and indulge when they are at hotels. This can be very hard on a relationship because it can be experienced as rejection of something that is very important to your partner. Imagine if your boyfriend insisted that you wear mid-thigh miniskirts, dark hose, 3 inch heels, low cut satin shirts, and hair styled the way he liked it, as well as full make-up every day, and if you didn't appear that way, he would ignore or avoid you, or worse start to criticize everything about you. It wouldn't take long for him to turn your love into hate, and you would be gone.

Another option is for him to dress with you, in the house, in private. You may even find that he is willing to do chores you don't like doing, like cooking, cleaning, dusting, or vacuuming, even cleaning the bathrooms. You may also find that SHE knows exactly where to scratch your back, can kiss your neck in a way that covers your whole body with goose bumps.

I've been married twice. The first time, I told my ex about being a cross-dresser about 3 weeks after we moved in. She seemed to accept so I proposed and we got married about 6 months later. Even before the wedding there were indications that she wasn't as accepting as she pretended. Over the next 8 years, it reached the point where I would work absurdly late, often well after midnight, and spend 12-15 hours a day at work to avoid the rejection and snarky remarks. We finally went to a couples counselor and she immediately brought up my "Wardrobe Problem". We talked about it together for a few weeks, then he met with us separately.

With me, the counselor asked a lot of questions to assess my true gender identity. I told him that I had started dressing when I was 6, because most of my friends were girls and we were just trading clothes. When a mother freaked out and demanded that I be banned from playing with the girls, I got severely beaten by the boys on a regular basis. Even without dressing up, it was nearly impossible to hide my feminine nature. How I laughed, how I covered my mouth when I laughed, how I would squeal with delight, or giggle, how I would often use a whole octave in a single sentence. My hips were wider, my waist was smaller, and my chest was bigger than most boys my age. I was tall, but thin and had very long legs. Finding pants was always a challenge. If I wore boys pants, I had to pay extra to get the 36 inch inseam, I would use a belt to gather up all the extra space at the waist, and I'd wear dress shirts that fit like tents to hide my curves. I often wore jackets. At puberty, when I found out I had a bass voice I turned to drugs and booze and nearly killed myself numerous times.

With my ex, he asked what she found attractive about me, then has he tried to point out that these were feminine traits, she kept saying she couldn't stand the way I looked. She actually LIKED the feminine traits, but wanted me hairy and masculine looking and dressing like a man all the time.

Ultimately, he brought us together said "Rex/Debbie is transsexual and should transition as soon as possible, I'm surprised he has lived this long", then "Leslie is not bisexual or a lesbian and will never be attracted to Rex as long as he continues to look so feminine. The communication is great, the love is there, and you support each other, but this conflict can't be resolved. Your options are 1 - Continue your platonic marriage (we hadn't had sex in over 2 years), 2 - Have an open marriage where you each take your own lovers but stay married, or 3 - Get divorced and see if you can marry someone who is a better match. I chose option 1, she chose option 2, but after about 4 months, her lover wanted to get married so we ended up with option 3.

When I married Lee, my current wife, I was much more honest much earlier. I met her on match.com where my profile contained pictures of Debbie as well as Rex. Lee sent a note saynig "Yo, you're wearing a dress, what's that about?". I sent her a response explaining that I was transgender and had wanted to transition, but felt I was too old and fat to do so at this point in my life. We talked on the phone for 2 weeks, then went out on a date. When I met her parents I realized she had great role models and could be a great wife. When she lost the keys to our beach rental, I was so calm and so supportive she decided I was a keeper. She realized that was my feminine nature coming out. I didn't freak out, I just asked if she wanted me to book a hotel nearby, go back to my place (closest), or sleep in the car. She opted to sleep in the car, and we cuddled together. I just wanted to make sure she was taken care of.

Fast forward about 6 years, including a wedding, a stroke (mine), 8 hernias (hers), and lots of love, and the death of my father created the space where I wanted to transition. I started seeing a therapist, and was looking at boot-leg hormones, and Lee said "I'm not OK with this". I sorta freaked out. I was in Maine and had mixed a "Prestone Cocktail" before I poured it down the drain and when I got back to NJ I told my doctor I needed help. A few days later I started seeing a gender counselor, and after about 5 sessions, Lee came along. We started going ot dinner as Debbie and Lee, and Lee helped me to dress like a professional business woman. It was a bit like an episode of "What not to wear" with all my "club wear" going into the trash, and then having to buy longer skirts, looser tops, jackets, and business appropriate shoes. At the same time, Lee was beginning to see how much happier I was. I even looked about 15 years younger. I had a mild heart problem, and shortly after that I was approved for spiro and estro. When I told my heart doctor what I was taking, he said "Wonderful, Now I can take you off those really dangerous drugs I was giving you, most men hate the side effects, but you don't seem to mind".

Today I have been living as Debbie full time for about 3 years now, and have legally changed my name and gender. I even work as Debbie. Lee and I are closer than ever, and happier too. I don't think I have ever loved as much or experienced the love of others as much. It's so much easier to experience love when I don't have to pretend not to be what I am and pretend to be what I am not. I wasn't even very good at it.. Her family likes Debbie even better than Rex, as do the people at work, and even the people at church. Again, it's so much easier when you aren't hold up a clown mask to survive.

Given what you have written in your original post, it's pretty obvious that you are very much in love with both the boy and the girl, but you are still struggling with how to deal with the wardrobe issue. The good news is that he seems to like being a man, with it's special privileges, benefits, and conventions, and seems to only need to let the girl out on occasion, rather than 24/7.

As for coming home with a boyfriend, if he were attracted to guys, he would have been searching out guys. He may find your strong personality, positive outlook, power, and confidence to be very attractive, even though these are "masculine" traits. I tell Lee, "You are more than man enough, and more than woman enough, for me, and I love you just the way you are, no matter what changes". I've always been a bit bisexual, but boys/men were also associated with violence and pain. Even if I got a wonderfully romantic offer, I would never want to jeopardize the wonderful relationship I have with Lee. I suspect your boyfriend is similar, he wants you and cares enough to share a secret he might have taken to the grave if you hadn't found his stash.

[Gillian Gigs]

I think that Jenniferathome hit the nail right on the head. The best advice I have seen so far. There is nothing worst than the state of denial and your SO seems to be wallowing in it. The lies are the give away.

[Tanya+]

Speaking for myself, the tendency to hide this part of myself wasn't shame, so much as self-hatred, somewhere a long the line i judged myself as unacceptable and unlovable, and the fear of sharing was the fear of being exposed as unloveable. The process of self acceptance was long and healing and had little to do with actual cross-dressing behaviour. After accepting myself, the experience of being known and accepted by my wife was staggering and tearful, as a lifetime of pain poured out. The next issue was that this aspect of me was immature and prone to rushes of blood and a modest bit of overspending. From what little i know of Your story, i would sayy this: the commitment of marriage should be free of massive doubts and reservations.. BUT a fearful heart would take this as confirmation of being unacceptable, UNLESS the engagement continues as an affirmation of mutual exploration and understanding. If its love you have to honour it, without losing yourself. Anyway, i talk too much, best of luck to you both.

[Taielyn]

I really appreciate all the stories. Some sound very simmilar in ways, and open my eyes to things about myself that I wasn't really attuned to. (Here I thought it was going to be all about him). Especially the bit about my masculine side, I've often joked that I have bigger balls than most men, and have always been very assertive and direct - especially with male coworkers and friends. However I never really attributed it to a masculine side in me, I just shrugged it off as being a very strong and confident female who doesn't take anybody's flack. Part of the reason I love him so much really is his feminine side, it's rare when it comes out, and it's usually in very small ways, but it's those nice gestures that I love so much.

As far as the snooping goes. We talked about that last night actually. Although technically snooping when I found his stash the first time, he agrees that he would have done the same and didn't consider it a blatant invasion of privacy. When I found out the second time it was a complete invasion, and we talked about it because we never had before. He admitted he never faulted me for it because he wasn't being honest to begin with, which would have solved the problem. I feel bad about it, but after our talk we are agreeing to put that behind us, as there's nothing we can do about it now. Neither of us think the reciept I found was an invasion of privacy either, and he opened up right away, which did help quite a bit for both sides. Looking on his phone was purely a mistake, he knew I was looking up a video on YouTube when he handed me my phone, it's not like I was pulling search history from 5 years ago. Although I understand exactly where you are coming from when you say trust is mutual.

[Jackie7]

With your open-minded attitude and your willingness to work with him at your own pace, you can have a lot of fun with it provided he comes clean with you and gets over his need to create new secrets. What's toxic is the parade of secrets and the resulting fear of what next that hasn't yet been mentioned.

My wife is very womanly yet she has a strong masculine side too. and I am very manly but with a strong girl side. These are the qualities we prize most in each other. Our love, complete openness, and mutual trust is what allows these qualities to emerge.

When I showed this thread to my wife, she pointed out that in exchange for no secrets, I got acceptance. And with time and love, acceptance becomes approval. And that's what we really want, your approval.

[Nadine Spirit]

Hi Taielyn-

Good for you for reaching out for more information on this little known subject. Even most of us that personally do it really do not have much understanding of it. The vast majority of information is simply personal opinions, so take it as you will.

I do agree with what Jennifer at home stated in her earlier post.

Some of my own thoughts:

- In my marriage neither of us even considers any right to privacy from each other. What is mine is hers and vice versa. We share everything. Apparently many have told me that makes our relationship quite bizarre. Anywho... for me, you did nothing wrong with looking around your own house. He did something wrong with attempting to hide something from you.

- He is in the middle of a great amount of denial. Many, many, many! transgender folks are quite annoyed with this seemingly weird desire within ourselves. I know it bugged the heck out of me for a long time and still does on occasion. Until he comes to grips with his own internal desires he will continue to deny them and will most likely end up lying to himself and thus to you. He will most likely never rid himself of these desires.

- Being a strong stand up woman, does not mean you have a masculine side, as him being softer or more gentle does not mean he has a feminine side. These are social constructs and definitions of what is male or female. It does not necessarily make it so. I think for many of us, it is a feeling inside. I know for me, I have never fully felt comfortable with defining myself as male. Nor do I feel comfortable as defining myself as female. Talk about feeling like a weirdo! How in the world could I possibly ever explain that to anybody else who has never felt that way? Well, what I have discovered is that you just say it and let others think what they may. It is how I feel inside is all that matters.

- You certainly can postpone or cancel the marriage at anytime. Do NOT feel locked into doing something you are not comfortable with.

- Oh and here is another vote for cross dressing does not mean you are homosexual. I have been given the opportunity on several occasions to be with men and I have never been interested in doing so. While my desire to cross dress has been with me for as long as I can remember, my total lack of desire to be intimate with men has been with me just as long. And I have had opportunities to do so since I was about 12 to the current time. Neither desire has ever changed.

Good luck!

[Rachael Leigh]

Taielyn, from my experience with my wife who really is not accepting but does know its been a struggle for a long time. Your BF sounds a lot like many of us and we try to deny this and that we can make it go away. Well Ive known for a long time I wanted to dress up and never ever could understand it, once I told my wife just before we got married I thought finally I have someone who knows. It does help to tell and yet I still felt bad for having this a part of me and I kept thinking once married I will not need it.
I was wrong, it got stronger because I saw my wonderful wife dressed pretty and thinking man I wish I could have something pretty to wear too.
I did stop for a time, but in the last few years its came back as strong as its ever had and it has been a big burden on our relationship. We do talk about it but it still hurts her.
So yes communication is a huge key for you both and he may still not be sure where he wants to go with all this. I wish you the best and thanks for sharing this because we all have an understanding
blessings Leigh

[Isabella Ross]

So much good advice. Incredible to see this forum living up to its potential, in terms of simply helping people. Taeilyn, not much new to add, but I will stress a couple of points that have already been made:

- although it might not seem like it now, your relationship, like many others on this forum, might grow stronger if you can both come to terms with this

- you do seem like you can get to that level of acceptance based on what you've written (but I still might suggest postponing the wedding until you do get there)

- he will never lose this aspect of his personality, so please...do not fall into the trap of believing that he will "quit" and "helping" him achieve this

- he will wallow in guilt and shame until the end of his days if he doesn't come to terms with it

- because it's permanent and in no way optional, he needs to somehow see begin to see this as a gift and source of joy in his life

- the main stumbling block seems to be his inability to move forward, not yours

Best wishes.

[Alyssa Lane]

Only advice i can give, as this sounds exactly like me, the dressing doesnt stop, some days the urge is more then other days where im busy, getting rid of anything isnt a good idea unless its something i dont like or doesnt fit. The saying he wants to stop is just denial where he doesn't know what to do or where to go from here, he sounds like he is trying to find his comfortable spot to be living as where you and him are happy together. Let him do what he needs, just have him know not to go crazy spending like any woman can in a mall with a blank cheque. Its a hard thing to talk anout when he doesnt know where he is at and hasnt come to terms with it yet.

[Taielyn]

We met with our counselor last night. It was very helpful. My fiancé still says he wants to quit for himself, he says everything would be much easier if he just stopped, which I get. We made a deal that when he comes to me saying he wants to shop, or dress, that it would be beneficial for me to ask him how I can help him. That way if he decides on his own that he wants my acceptance, all he has to do is tell me. Or if he wants me to give him some support to stop, I can do that too. That way I'm not responsible for making him do something one way or another. I think he has a general understanding, but can't verbalize it. I don't expect him to be able to fully explain something as complex as this seems. He knows I will support him no matter what. The bag of clothes is still by the dresser, I'm thinking im just going to put it in the drawer with my lingerie, and have that just be our "special occasion" drawer. At least then when he feels the urge to dress he doesn't drop a crazy amount of money, at least until we have talked about it.

[franlee]

From the impression I get from your post you are CD and with that said, you aren't going to be able to give it up just because someone else wants you to. So the best you can do is be honest with yourself and her. Take the whole package(you as you are) or part with a taste of sweet sorrow and move on with your life until you find a woman that Loves you, the true and total you. It's really that simple unless you want to live in misery and resentment with a woman that doesn't want to be in a complete/honest relationship. I can't except that compromise for a life time. Can you? We are who and what we are, good, bad, or indifferent take me as I am or we'll part friends, it's their choice.

[c2candice]

Hi Taielyn,

I get where you guys are at. Just a comment on your last post. He probably, like me, sometimes wants so bad not to want to dress. I go through periods of thinking I will never do it again. It's a hassle. It does not fit in with my current life (me now married 6 years, 2 kids). It doesn't have a place in my happy marriage. I don't have time for it. I've said all those things.

But the thoughts always come back. I don't know why. I don't know what brings it on.

Chances are, he "wants" really hard himself not to have these feelings. If it were up to him, he would forget it all. But if he is like any of us, he simply can't just drop it.

Hope that helps. Lots of good advice here.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Hi Taielyn - beautiful choice of name by the way -

Thanks for writing and telling us what's been happening.

Firstly his dressing isn't about you. It isn't about anything you've done, it isn't about stress caused by your work.

He's fuelled by a compulsion which is deep seated and virtually uncontrollable. If he were to 'control' it, it would simply be suppression- and you're aware of course of how suppressing a powerful compulsion is likely to turn out.

This is NOT going to go away. If you choose to be with this man, you need to accept that- and I for one do not blame you if you decide not to. You care a lot about him, and I don't actually think 'what the kids think' somewhere down the line is very relevant- it's what you think, what you feel which matter.

He may or may not have or develop an attraction to men- the majority of us are hetero believe it or not, and many of us are devoted to our wives and torn up about the pain and/or confusion we have caused them. Plenty here have very understanding and accepting wives. There are all sorts. I believe him when he says he does not want to hurt you- but at the same time he does sound a bit immature- perhaps no more than most his age.

My advice is that you listen to your instincts and fears. Don't marry this guy blindly hoping that things will magically change. I realise that the problem is in sorting out what is a legitimate threat to your future and what is insecurity- yes, he may (with your help) learn to manage his compulsion and you may learn to accommodate it into your marriage. But the operative word is 'may'.

I don't like the locking of the attic idea- that has very negative overtones. A small chunk of metal can no more staunch his compulsion than a sandbag can resist a rising river. The best solution is talk, talk, talk. Locking one door just means he'll find another, and you need to avoid him feeling he must hide his compulsion.

I don't mean by that that you are obliged to accept his every whim- but your r/ship must be based on honesty if it is to have any chance of success.

It distresses me that you say "I just feel like I can't get out of this wedding if I wanted to."

This is not 1895, there is no shotgun, and no one among your family and friends (his as well as yours) can or should contribute to any feeling of pressure to marry him or anybody.

If you are talking about guilt, then use your obvious intelligence to do the math. Marrying someone because you feel guilty otherwise is the worst basis to form a marriage. You do not owe him anything- but you do owe it to yourself to make the best, happiest life you can for yourself. He must fight his own battles, and frankly I doubt he is really prepared for marriage- he needs to sort himself out in a big way. By all means stay engaged, but postpone the marriage before you get in over your head. I'd say he needs 5-10 years to come to terms with himself, if he's anything like most of us!

Don't hesitate to write as much and as often as you feel you need.

Hugs, Nikki


...he was taking what he bought last week to goodwill.

Am I wrong for supporting him in quitting?

He isn't quitting, he's purging. We see it all the time. It will be followed by an empty ache, which will nag and nag at his guts until he gives in and begins buying again.

I say again: this is NOT going to go away.

[TinaZ]

We met with our counselor last night. It was very helpful. My fiancé still says he wants to quit for himself, he says everything would be much easier if he just stopped, which I get. We made a deal that when he comes to me saying he wants to shop, or dress, that it would be beneficial for me to ask him how I can help him. That way if he decides on his own that he wants my acceptance, all he has to do is tell me. Or if he wants me to give him some support to stop, I can do that too. That way I'm not responsible for making him do something one way or another. I think he has a general understanding, but can't verbalize it. I don't expect him to be able to fully explain something as complex as this seems. He knows I will support him no matter what. The bag of clothes is still by the dresser, I'm thinking im just going to put it in the drawer with my lingerie, and have that just be our "special occasion" drawer. At least then when he feels the urge to dress he doesn't drop a crazy amount of money, at least until we have talked about it.


He might want to quit. I've wanted to quit countless times. The thing is, transgender is transgender is transgender. Part of his being will be female until the day he dies, and whether he ever dresses again or not, that is an etched-in-stone fact. Bottom line, dressing will help him connect to that part, which eventually will help him be whole, which means a calmer, happier, more well adjusted person.

Life would be WAY easier if this were not true (so he's honest when he says he "wants" to quit), but it is true. Once he internalizes this, everything will be better.

[Kate T]

I think your approach is admirable.

Many here have already advised that it always comes back. Certainly that would seem to be the case though you must remember you are posting on a support site for crossdressers, we are a fairly biased population.

One thing is clear and definite. You cannot MAKE him quit. Not only can you not make him quit, to try and make him would be cruel and unfair. Another thing also is very clear. He could not have a more loving or supportive partner.

Best wishes

[Jane P]

Hi Taielyn ,

I am sorry I do not have any advice for you . I just wanted to thank you for starting this thread as so much useful information has been generated in the process.

I can believe that he "wants" to quit dressing . While doing it can relieve stress , hiding it builds up a different stress and it is hard to break this cycle . We grew up being told this is wrong , boys don't dress like girls , yet some of us have this urge , this desire . We don't know where it comes from , we wish it would go away . Note: ( please replace all the "we's" with "I's " as I cannot really speak for others ). The thing is , it doesn't ever really go away . The best we can hope for is to accept this and deal with it. He needs to learn that it is part of him that he is stuck with and start being honest with both himself and you that it is likely not going away .

Thank you for being brave enough to come here and ask these questions and seek out knowledge to help you accept your partner as he is . I hope he is able to do the same for you . In the end do what is right for you , I wish you the best of luck in your relationship , but , as painful as it may be , it is not too late to call off or postpone a wedding if you are having doubts.

Best of luck Taielyn and again thanks , and welcome to the forum.

John ( Jonnie )

[c2candice]

One more thing to note. Based on most others here, and those of myself to my wife.

He is totally in love with you, cherishes you! You are everything to him.

Dressing DOES NOT replace you! You guys will have to figure out how it fits into your dynamic. Some wife's participate, others know it happens, and give them space.

Chances are good that he does not want to transition to a female full time. For many of us, it is a part time hobby. But best get him counseling, to see if he has gender identity problems.

Chances are good that he doesn't know the answer to any of your questions, but he wants to give you comfort.

Chances are, he is scared about his own future. I myself fear that I am headed down the path of transitioning. Though I am 98% sure this will only be a part time thing, contained between my wife and I.

This is something you two can cope with! Make sure he knows that he can be completely honest. That's the only way it's going to work. He is dealing with years of shame, guilt, denial. It's going to be hard for him. At the very least he needs to be honest about his own feelings, and wants going FORWARD. No sense dwelling in the past for either of you.

You feel betrayed, but be clear that he wants to be with you. This is complex. You will both be figuring it out at the same time.

All the best,
Candice

[Beverley Sims]

Taielyn,
Hang in there, the dressing is unlikely to stop, more than likely he is not gay, nor will he transition.

There may be many experiments at trying to look good and you can help by being supportive.

If he is attractive you could both go out dressed and this is a great outlet.

The neighbours need not know.

[Stephanie47]

Taielyn, I really do not have any advice for you. This is something you and your boyfriend need to sort out. Me?

1. My first experience with wearing women's attire was donning nylon full slips my mother hanged in the sole bathroom to dry. I loved the feel of the material It was totally different from my boy clothes. There was no desire to be a girl. My mother and aunts did not dress me as a girl to punish me. I had no sister and minimal contact with "yucky" girls. I was/am all boy. I played from morning to night.

2. I expanded my "interest" in women's clothing as a mid teen. I have not idea why. Again, there was no outside stimuli. I felt like crap. Society labeled men who wore women's clothing as "queers, faggots, fruits" and worse, and, were free game to beat up and torment. I knew I was not gay, but, I was totally confused. I was into self loathing. I had no idea why.

3. I went to a prestigious public high school. I went to a prestigious public college. I did well. I was drafted. I served in combat and killed people as required of me. I was more man than 90% of my male friends. I suffer from that more than I ever suffered from wearing a dress. Yes, wearing women's clothing does relieve stress. It was a better way of relieving stress than drinking or doing illicit drugs or womanizing.

4. My wife and I raised two great kids..educated and prosperous. They are loving and consideration. They are great. I take some credit for it.

I could go on and on. The point is, we are no different than any other male. There are cross dressers who are boorish individuals who will not consider their wives. You'll read about their belief on this site, too! Again, we are no different.

Some relationships are "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." Some are fully engaged. And, any where in between. I will say you need to set boundaries. You also need to figure out if you can accept him as he is. Do not expect him to change. He'll try. He'll succumb. You'll get testy. You'll destroy each other. If you cannot live with a cross dresser because of your morale beliefs, then do NOT marry him. But, if you do want to be his wife, then you and he need to establish boundaries.

[cheryl reeves]

sounds like your so is heading for disaster thinking he can quit to make you happy...you want a happy husband or a miserable and sneaky husband? thinking he is going to quit is going to lead to him really hiding his femme side from you and being sneaky and not truthful period..speaking from experience this almost destroyed my marriage 16 yrs ago..my problem was my wife knew i told her then hid it from her entirely except lingerie time to time, which lead to me doing stupid stuff and getting caught..she was the one who burned down the closet i was hiding in and getting me to meetings with others and going out in public,she was the strong one in the times i was weak and wanting to go back to hiding..12 yrs ago i stopped again( except for panties which are more comfortable) for personal reasons and family reasons,but still dressed when alone and i mean alone which was rare,now that all that is behind us we are finding we are starting over again from scratch,but we still have the foundation we laid 16 yrs ago which is a plus.

[Tina_gm]

Hi. my thoughts are that he wants to quit because he WANTS to just be a "normal " guy. I still go through this quite a bit myself. I know I have given my wife an extrordinary circumstance to deal with and to accept simply because of who and what I am. For the very reason I love my wife, I want to alleviate any difficulty in her life but just being me adds to it.

Society may not be as hard on crossdressers as it used to be, but still far from accepting or comfortable with it.

There is so much ingrained into us from day one about being tough and Yada yada. How sick, demented and deviant those Transgender people are. Funny how cheating and abuse can be forgiven.... but Transgender which hurts no one but yet our society views it far worse.... so no wonder we spend so much our lives fighting against our own selves. It is definitely what your fiance is doing. It is what nearly all of us do or have done.

[giuseppina]

Hi Taielyn

It sounds to me like your fiance may want some sort of aversion therapy. Unfortunately, this has been shown to be ineffective and unethical because it causes mood disorders like depression, anxiety and anger issues in some cases. In effect, it tells people not to accept themselves as they are. This is not conducive to good mental health.

Perhaps you or your therapist can persuade your fiance that accepting himself as he is, including crossdressing. is the best choice. This is a decision he has to make himself.

He made a good choice in a life partner.

[kimdl93]

Ok, here's my two cents on the matter. The problem is not that he secretly desires to become a woman...it is that he has not accepted himself as a CDer. Btw, transgender is an umbrella term encompassing a wide spectrum of gender related variations, such as the fetish dresser, the occasional cross dresser, the middle pather who lives with his/her feet in both worlds, to transsexuals, who actually do identify as women. He is most likely towards the fetish or occasional dresser end, but hides because he is ashamed and confused. Unfortunately, he has lived much of his life in shame, denial and hiding, so it's a hard habit to break.

My advice is to focus on helping him get over the shame. This isn't a condition that can be cured, but he can learn to accept himself and to be honest with you. If the two of you work on those two things, you can go on to a long and happy relationship.

[suchacutie]

Hi and welcome. Your finance is a lucky guy to have you! Before I give you what may be a wild thought, let me tell you that my wife and I discovered my feminine side together, after 34 years of marriage. We thought we knew ourselves and each other well, but suddenly Tina appeared and within 48 hours we had named here and started an in-depth conversation about who she (Tina) had been in our lives and how she might fit in for the future, now that we knew she existed.

Given that, let me suggest that you might not want him to stop exhibiting his feminine self! In fact, it might be important for both of you, as it was to us, to find out who she is (this third person in your relationship) because it very well may be that many of the characteristics you love about your finance are manifestations of his feminine self. I've read this whole thread and he seems really confused about how to come to grips with his own femininity. You can be incredibly helpful by helping him to understand who he is. Unfortunately, he already has a pile of guilt and fear built up which will have to be diffused. I was lucky to avoid that step.

The person you know as the man you wish to spend the rest of your life with is complex, but it's clear you are in love with all of that. The easiest way to settle this is to dive in and embrace it with him. Remove the uncertainty and really find out who this man is you love, and what his feminine manifestation can do FOR your relationship.

Tina has brought our marriage closer, not farther apart, and I hope it can do the same for you.