AA and CD

[pamela7]

I've been thinking, sponsored by Taielyn's thread, about "our" compulsion, and wonder if its any different to an addiction.

The AA have a reasonably well-proven process for living substance-free, and in cases where people want to be free of "it", does it work? Has it worked?

I'm not interested at all in stopping, personally, but just idly wondering if those groups and methods might help someone who did want to "give it up". I

Anyone have any ideas or thoughts or comments on this?

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Yeah I found her thread very moving and found myself deleting a sentence which started, "Think of it a bit like cigarette smoking..." because it's a silly analogy. But I then couldn't think of a good analogy, so I rambled on about something else.

It's a good point- has anyone overcome their xd instincts by using a 12-step program?

Any members of the British royal family care to weigh-in here?

[Curiosity666]

I think the biggest difference is AA is for chemical addictions that are developed after birth. I don't know "why" we crossdress, but I think it's a deeper part of us then chemical addiction.

[pamela7]

the clue i was looking at was the bits where a) the addict gives up control to "a higher power" (e.g. god), b) actions of redemption to those harmed in the process, [for those who want to stop CD-ing].

The attractor energy behind addictions, compulsions and obsessions has the same form, we're looking at when/what created them. For me, a chemical event is no different to an emotional or physical or mental defining moment, as these also involve chemistry.

[CountessVF]

A bit of dangerous logic comparing the two. One could make the argument that if crossdressing isn't just a compulsive addiction and is intrinsically part of us that the same is or could be true of alcoholics.

[Pat]

I'm thinking it's like starting a 12-step program for people who are left-handed or who want to stop having blue eyes. I don't think we need a program to make us stop being what we are, we need a program to accept what we are and help society see us (and help us see ourselves) in a positive light. We need positive role models that help us understand how to handle the challenges of our daily lives and disperse the Pink Fog. But other than that, I think you're on to something...;)

[Jenniferathome]

Cross dressing is absolutely, completely and utterly different from alcoholism. There is no physical dependency for cross dressing as there is in all drug addictions. I think you are mistaking one similarity and implying 12 step solution because of it. The similarity is that in the case of drug/alcohol addiction and cross dressing, you are that for life, whether you "do" it or not.

Unfortunately, if you were to apply your hypothesis, you could 12 step your way to "cure" ADD, or OCD or even homosexuality.

[Alice Torn]

My guess, is that 12 step support groups can be helpful, in overcoming anything, to a degree. i have been to many 12 step groups, but i don't think anyone is miraculously "cured" very often of anything. Terrible traumatic experiences while drinking, smoking, or cding, may spur a person to want to stop drinking, smoking, or dressing also. I tend to agree with those who say there is a genetic connection to dressing too, and maybe brain chemistry.

[pamela7]

Yes Jennifer Jennie Countess,

I'm not advocating, I'm asking IF, in the light of people who do want to shed the behaviour.

[CarlaWestin]

I have a lifelong friend who refuses to work for a living and is absolutely addicted to AA meetings and bible study. Oh yeah, and pain killers. This is completely enabled by his wife's income. Personally, I've just focused in on the benefit of not smoking, not drinking, honest nutrition, physical health, stress reduction and emotional well being. My crossdressing falls in the plus column as being necessary for emotional balance and overall well being. Am I addicted? Sure! There is nothing out there that you can't just champion if you set your mind to it. People who state that it is out of their control, or my favorite, "It's in god's hands", are just lying to themselves to avoid the hard road of ownership.

Some people carry the water. Others gladly drink the water you've provided. And others just cry because they're thirsty and point a finger when you don't share.

[Victoria Demeanor]

Okay so my thought on this is that AA is not a cure, but rather a form of form of supportive self denial. Once you are an alcoholic, you always are and that’s why you go to support groups and have a sponsor. One little sip can put you down the path of heavy drinking again. If you apply this to cross dressing you would have a poor soul calling their sponsor late at night, crying about passing the women’s department at Macy’s and seeing a cute LBD and, and, sob sob I…..just want to try it on just, just try it on.

Well since many all ready practice denial the only thing we are missing is the meetings (hi my name is Vicky and I am a cross dresser) and the sponsors. But you know unlike the ill effects of alcoholism, I think this is a good thing and should be embraced.

[Beverley Sims]

I think it goes hand in hand with addictions but maybe it is more obsessive compulsion.

[CynthiaD]

I think that 12-steps programs are for people who want to get something bad out of their life. Crossdressing, being a good thing, doesn't really need such a group.

Perhaps we could start a group to help non-crossdressers give up their non-crossdressing. :)

"You know, sir, there's a whole new life waiting for you out there. All you have to do is put on that dress!"

[Pat]

Cross dressing is absolutely, completely and utterly different from alcoholism.

It's very true, especially in terms of social harm. If a AA guy falls off the wagon, the headline reads, "Local family killed by drunk driver." If a CD falls off the wagon the headline reads, "Local family mildly amused at man in dress." OK, maybe that's a little flippant -- certainly CD behavior has motivated divorces and things like that but generally the magnitude of social harm from crossdressing seems low.

[audreyinalbany]

and, a little off topic, AA 'recovery rates" are between 5 and 10%. Any other treatment with a 5% success rate would probably be considered somewhat of a failure.

[Isabella Ross]

Gotta agree with Cynthia here. Why would anyone want to stop such a beautiful and enjoyable thing? Perhaps a 12 step program would be a better idea for anyone who sees being transgendered as a burden...a program that might help them see it for the joyful thing it can be...

[Lily Catherine]

I'm inclined to consider cross-dressing a matter of identity rather than an addiction or compulsion. That said, the concept of emotional dependency, even that on clothing of the opposite gender, appears to be a thin common thread if it is at all.

@Jennie-CD: I was beaten, with no 12-step programme, into writing with my right hand. Guess the appeal of such programmes falls back to social perception and shame - the greatest deterrence is an unforgiving community.

I last smoked 9 months ago, and I don't feel "once a smoker always a smoker" as much as I do "once a cross-dresser, always a cross-dresser".

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Pam, Please don't make me quit .:daydreaming:

[Angie G]

For AA or any program to work one really must want to stop. And chang the people one hangs with.:hugs:
Angie

[MissTee]

I suppose among the many things one could try, that would be another one to add to the list. Seems it would be la lot like purging and most of us have done that countless times.

[Terrylynn]

Wether it's chemicals, clothing, shopping, sex, etc., people use or abuse them for the same reason - it's pleasurable. The point of AA is to get you to a state where you are living in peace and harmony with your fellow man and creator (higher power) and thus don't need substances to feel good. 12 step programs do work but it requires a high degree of motivation which is probably why the success rate isn't higher. It's a heck of a lot easier escape from your problems by talking a drink, smoking a joint, wearing something pretty than to ruthlessly examine your life. Of course if drinking or CDing isn't destructive than you have no need for 12 step or similar programs.

[Jamz1b]

Studies have shown that a drug addiction is not chemical but emotional. If it was chemical, every one who was prescribed morphine would be hooked on heroine.
The 12 step as some have said already, focuses on rebuilding healthy social relationships and overcoming emotional issues.
What ever your addiction of choice, if it is driven by poor emotional coping, or causes poor emotional health, i would guess that the 12 step could give a lot of strength to any one struggling emotionally. I actually think that nothing but good could come from using any of the 12 steps to improve ones emotional state. It could also lead to lower reliance on the things that give us false happiness whatever that may be.

[pamela7]

Cynthia, absolutely, yes, I see only good in getting men into CD-ing, embracing a much-missing feminine energy in workplaces and life generally.

Feedback so far seems like no-one's really tried it, nor wants it. Personally, I have much better methods than AA - willing to take on all-comers in such trials - but the only "therapy" i see as useful for CD is for helping SO's acclimatise and helping TG decide if they're going to transition.

Blue Orchid: I won't make anyone give up their dresses!

xxx Pamela

[Teresa]

Pamela,
I'm convinced that I was born like it, whatever trait was passed onto me, nothing is going to change that part !
Secondly I know what triggered my sexual connection and that is too much a part of me, that after fifty years nothing is going to change that either !
Our Cding may lead us to addictions and obsessions but stopping or altering them is not going to take away part of our brain that really needs whatever transvestism gives us !

[pamela7]

Our Cding may lead us to addictions and obsessions but stopping or altering them is not going to take away part of our brain that really needs whatever transvestism gives us !

I reckon this is true for lifelong CD'ers, TS's and late-bloomers, but hey what do I know, I so new to this from one perspective. I also reckon there will be folks who have had imprinting experiences that can be un-imprinted, and if the guilt-purge-urge-dress cycle is too much for them, then having a way to alleviate suffering is a good thing.

I've dug deep, life-reviewed and found a yearning deeply buried for so long, so I'm with you, this is not going away for me. I've also found experiences that dug into were not imprintings. One example: about 12 years old I liked two of my mother's tops, so she gave them to me, and I wore them until I grew out of them. She has no memory of that, but funnily enough I have a photo of her wearing one of them before she passed them on! I just managed to buy a number of similar tops, yummm, and I realised I'd been looking for these clothes in mens departments for 40 years without success! Call me a bit dumb, but the writing's been on my wall a long, long time, I just did not read it.

[Krisi]

Alcohol (and tobacco) are physical addictions. I quit them both without outside help. Crossdressing is mental. I wouldn't call it an addiction but it doesn't really matter what anyone calls it. If you really want to quit, it's a matter of will power. Remove the temptation and focus on other things.

That said, Alcohol and tobacco cause physical harm to your body so there's a legitimate reason to quit. Crossdressing does not so unless it is causing problems in your family or social life, there's no reason to quit other than just that you want to.

Bottom line - You can quit crossdressing if you really want to and it doesn't take pills or group therapy to do so. It's all in your mind.

[sometimes_miss]

Wether it's chemicals, clothing, shopping, sex, etc., people use or abuse them for the same reason - it's pleasurable.
Ummm, not so much. For some, it's a way to avoid pain. I don't equate that with the desire for pleasure. I feel uncomfortable when dressed as a guy. Not as painful as, say, having a knife stuck in my knee, but uncomfortable none the less. Kind of like an itch you can't scratch. I don't see that being anything like, say, wanting an orgasm.

Studies have shown that a drug addiction is not chemical but emotional.
You can have both. Yes, the tendency to get addicted to something is definitely psychological, but with certain substances, there is a physically addictive component to it that must be overcome before you can stop it. Stopping heroin cold turkey, for example, results in physical pain way beyond the discomfort someone goes through when, say, quitting smoking cigarettes suddenly does.

Feedback so far seems like no-one's really tried it, nor wants it
You're pretty new here, and yes, the search function doesn't work very well when trying to find old threads on topics. However, many people have tried to stop crossdressing, using all kinds of methods. And so far, the success rate is close to zero. If I could get rid of this feeling without any adverse reactions, I'd do it in a heartbeat; crossdressing has really screwed up my life. A lot of people choose to embrace it because it's a way of dealing with something that you can't change. I....tolerate it because I can't change it. But I certainly don't think it's something that anyone in their right mind would choose if they had the option. It just makes life harder in so many ways.

I also reckon there will be folks who have had imprinting experiences that can be un-imprinted
It seems to depend on at what point in personality development it occurs. Some things become permanant at certain ages. An example is language; if you learn a new language before the onset of puberty, you won't have an accent in that language. But the part of the brain involved 'matures' during puberty, so once you've passed that age, you will have an accent. In the same way, it's possible that once our gender identity is set, then at some point it becomes permanent and cannot be changed either. However, this has not been studied extensively at all, so we don't know exactly what mechanisms are involved, nor what part(s) of the brain is involved, if indeed there is one part specifically which determines our gender identity.
There is one treatment that has had some success in stopping the desire to crossdress. Electro convulsive therapy. But it seems to work by destroying connections in the brain which form memories and knowledge, so you may wind up being unable to work or in some cases, unable to perform normal daily activities, not to mention, forget huge amounts of knowledge. Also, as your mind slowly 'heals' from the damage the shock causes, you slowly regain the desire to crossdress once again, and will need repeated 'treatments'. So it's not a permanent cure, nor is it something that you might casually like to try. ECT is usually reserved for people who become unable to function normally and/or cannot be treated with prescription drugs or therapy.

[Eryn]

The common addictions being discussed are chemical-based self-destructive behaviors. In each of them one cares less and less about oneself and more about the addiction.

Transgenderism is not in the same category. It is about being more the person one is meant to be.

The basic premise of the chemical dependency programs is "I will not use the substance right now." Apply the premise continuously and you will not use the substance at all.

The same can obviously be applied to crossdressing but it will not make one's life happier.

[Stephanie47]

I did give it up voluntarily for two years. I had absolutely no desire to wear women's clothing. I did not think of any sexual. It was called combat. Combat had a way of curing me of wanting to dress as a woman.

As to the thought of addiction vs compulsion. I have seen some threads/comments on this forum where the poster really has some need of serious therapy. If one cannot function in society and with family because cross dressing has become a driving force in their daily existence, then, yes it is more than a compulsion. I have been wearing women's clothing for more than fifty years. Some times it did border on a compulsion because it was a much needed stress reliever, and, I felt only getting a chance to "dress" would relieve the stress. I had no problem functioning without the clothing. It was just in the nature of someone else looking forward to a round of golf on the weekend. A chance to knock the crap out of that little ball.

Cross dressing has become a choice now. Some days or weeks when I have the opportunity to "dress," I find something else to do that is more fulfilling. Some days when I want to clean the house and cook or bake, then Stephanie likes to come out and play. But, I'll do that in my beat up cut off jeans and wholly tee shirt just as well and just as comfortable.

Do I have a compulsion? Yep! If I am in a hobby shop or surfing eBay or an on-line store and see a new military model that I "must" buy...well, it takes a lot of restraint. I thought after retirement I would work off that tall stack(s) of military models I acquired before retirement. Alas, I'm still adding to it. My time is surely running out. I am addicted to amassing models I know I will never complete. Wait, isn't the world record for living at 117? I have forty more years. I need to buy more? Phew!