What transitioning means to me

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

It has been awhile since I posted a musing so I thought why not today. I promise, it is not truly that deep thinking so while coffee might be nice it is not required :). I tend to do most of my thinking while exercising and yesterday I was jumping rope in the gym at work and observing those around me . . . burly men with lots of body hair, petit women with fit physiques, overweight folks trying to loose weight . . . basically the whole host of gym rats. After 50 minutes of rope jumping I began to stretch and prepare for the rest of my work out. As I was stretching I looked in the mirror at my reflection and saw as smallish fit man, completely denuded of body hair, arched and slightly feminine (could go both ways) eyebrows, very little facial hair. Indeed with the exception of slight beard shadow and wider shoulders and bigger arms, I looked quite androgynous. Now most people in that gym know about me and I am sure some spend a bit of time thinking . . . "Hey that's the guy who likes to dress like a woman . . . I wonder what that looks like?" :eek: I am sure some think due to the body mass drop (I used to weigh 170 lbs and now weigh 149 lbs), facial hair removal, arched brows and lack of body hair (BTW I have always removed my body hair), that I am laying the ground work for transitioning.

So, this got me thinking . . . what does transitioning really mean? When a person realizes they are truly TS and need to align their body with their target gender, we always talk about transitioning from one gender to the other . . . that makes perfect sense as it is a transition. However, I think for many here and definitely in my own case . . . transitioning can also mean personal growth. I have spent a greater part of my adult life hiding, suppressing and being ashamed of who I am . . . TG. I don't consider myself TS as I don't feel out of sorts with my body and desire to change it via HRT or surgical procedures. However, I am transitioning from who I was to who I am. This has included a complete outing on my part to family, friends, work and will culminate shortly with working one day a week dressed "en femme". Yes, I will admit the reduced beard growth, reduced body mass and thinned brows makes presentation easier in the Vanilla world but I hold no illusions that people will see me as anything but a man and many will just naturally assume I am transitioning because for many cis people, it is an all or none process and thinking that someone would exist somewhere in between does not make sense. So while some may naturally assume I am transitioning to become a woman, in essence I am transitioning in that I now have the confidence and support to grow and be who I was always meant to be. :)

Hugs

Isha

[mykell]

morning,
already had the "cup-o-joe" good to see one of your musings again Isha....after reading your terms and conditions i believe that we all are transitioning, we all come here for some reason, camaraderie, support, to learn about our "self", to share, to learn about our family or freinds....and once here we all have some sort of personal growth, so whether were CD, TG, TS, GG, GM i think we all have something to offer at one time or another, as well as something to gain....its a good thing to be part of this group....and just to muse back at you....imagine if we didnt need this group or site, that would be a great thing....im glad i came here to transition....

[Claire Cook]

Dear Isha,

You have encapsulated so much of what I feel, and I hope others as well. I too have thought about what transitioning means besides changing gender. I have a slight build, smooth arms and legs, pierced ears and wear clear nail polish all of the time. I do what I can to soften my complexion (and emotions!) and that rough male exterior. When at the gym I have the same feelings -- I generally wear a bra and women's shorts or workout pants, and do the kind of workouts that won't bulk me up but keep me toned. (And yes I take women's vitamins and supplements but I am not doing HRT, even though I've been asked if I do.) My transitioning, such as it is, is a state of mind and it has been a state of growth for me too, as I try to bring all of the elements of ME together -- including the male persona I was born with. What I am finding to be remarkable is how well I have been accepted by those who know me. I'm hopefully been accepted as me, and I can't tell you how gratifying that is.

Thank you so much for this post; you've been such an inspiration to the rest of us.

Warmest hugs,

Claire

[Jackie7]

Isha and Claire, y'all nailed it for me. Thank you.
Xxx

[Kate Simmons]

Transitioning is a process that goes from the inside out. Once we are confident with who we are as a person, and as you say growth as that person, any physical changes in connection with that are purely our own personal decision.:battingeyelashes::)

[Dorit]

I like what you wrote and can relate to it as similar to my own thoughts. Thanks Isha!

[Jean 103]

Isha
I’m glad that you are doing well. I completely understand what you are saying. Last Thursday night one of the girls came up to me and told me how she totally supports me and knows what I’m going through. This has happened to me before. People I guess assume I’m transitioning. So I see how people think you should be on one side or the other. I have never had a burning desire to transition, but if I could afford it I would. Take care Love Jean

[Nadya]

Isha,

I just want to say that I think what you are saying best represents how I feel about myself. I have been told that you aren't really a TG unless you have some sort of plan to modify yourself. I know that's wrong. Like many others, I've been hiding my true self since I was a kid. While I don't plan to move towards HRT or SRS, the transitioning I've done has started moving away from my wholly masculine self to something in-between. Your progress on this has kind of given me a goal to pursue. I want to feel like I can be who I am at work and in public because that's who I was meant to be. Thank you so much for having the strength to make progress in your own life and thereby inspiring others like myself to be who they are. Life is too short to live with your true self hidden away. <3

[LucyNewport]

This is a very thought provoking perspective on what a transition can be. I mean we all know that classic description that gets used in our little world, but it could be more than that, depending on the individual transitioner. As long as you end up in a place that makes you happy, feels authentic and is otherwise right than it is awesome!

I like the idea of blending my male and female personae into one coherent whole, but I find there are limits to what I can currently get away with. People like neat categories: good/bad, healthy/sick, man/woman. Anything that can't be quickly filed away gets much more attention. I find it easier to gain public acceptance (or at least disinterest) by pushing the femme to 11 (hair, clothes, makeup etc). The downside to this is it is difficult and too time consuming for me for it to be an every day thing.

I would like to hear more about your day-to-day experiences in the between zone. I think that if more up us were as brave as you it would open up more possibilities for all people who feel constricted by the gender they are supposed to be.

Lucy

[AnnieMac]

I've been meaning to ask this for a while. I see the term cis used quite often. What does "cis" mean? Pardon my ignorance, I'm not smart enough to know that men don't wear panties.

[Katey888]

I've been meaning to ask this for a while. I see the term cis used quite often. What does "cis" mean?

There's a useful definition sticky in the Introductions section here (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?162497-Some-Common-Trans-Related-Definitions-and-Abbreviations)for common abbreviations... (although we do still get the occasional debate about agreement of some terms... ;)) but it simply means your gender identity matches your physical gender. :)

Isha - good thoughts... that transition is not an absolute, but a series of steps on which we pause because we are comfortable or perhaps because we just like to relax and enjoy the view for a while... :thinking:

Now if everyone on the stairs could just get along and stop shoving up or down... ;)

Katey x

[Heidi Stevens]

Isha, lead on my dear. I'm at about the same point in the transition journey that you are. I started low dose HRT six weeks ago and have never felt better! Will I go the whole nine yards and live as a woman? Not right now. I love my wife way too much to burden her with all the trappings that would entail. I'm happy where I am for now. I get my Heidi time in and she gets a husband who can stil look like her husband. Yes, she is the only thing stopping me from moving on to womanhood. Love does strange things.
I hope you and your wife are on a page where your lives are both happy and I look forward to your progress.

[Allisa]

Like the others have said you once again sum up many of our feelings in your musings. I know of the assuming of changing gender for I often get asked that question I believe because of my smaller stature, length of my hair and style, lack of blue shadow from hair removal technique I use, pierced ears with small hoops, etc...but no way a female just a softer male, and as you said existing somewhere in between just doesn't make sense to them. A problem many of us struggle with until one day the light bulb comes on and we accept ourselves and "transition".

[Bria]

Isha, I'm glad to hear that your gray matter is still in full function, it's been a while since we have been treated to one of your thought provoking threads!

There is a thread on the TS forum asking the same question from the TS point of view, when have you transitioned (that is when are you finished). If you have followed the TS forum you will know that there is no real agreement on the subject as some think that you must have HRT, FFS, SRS, out to the world, name change, gender marker change, etc, etc.

I believe that Isha is correct in saying that she has transitioned, you just have to define the beginning state and the ending state, and that can be different for every person. The important point is to be comfortable with/at peace with where you are at on the TG spectrum. You are the only one that can know that!

My 2 cents.

Hugs, Bria

[Jenniferathome]

No Isha, you haven't "transitioned." You have come to accept yourself. That's it. For those that are TS, they first accept themselves THEN they transition, living, full time, as the gender they are.

[Teresa]

Isha,
When I first joined this site it was in desperation to make sense of my CDing ! In some respects it's been more like an awakening ! Has it brainwashed me ? I don't think so !
It's taken me through it all from the start, and in the process an acceptance but not a full understanding of what it now appears I was born with !

Twenty years ago I came to the odd conclusion that I was a male lesbian ! I still don't know if there is such a thing and I know the term ruffles a few feathers !

Dealing with the basic questions, are you gay ? NO ! Do you want to be a woman ? At one time it would have been a NO !

I didn't realise that the term transition could be so wide ranging ! Your definition of it sits well with me but then Lorileah ( I hope I've spelt it right !) has come up with a thread going into the mechanics of it ! Now I am confused , where do I fit in with the definitions given in some of those replies !
One point I would like to make is that we are not being explicit enough, if you're totally in the know, that's fine but I'm getting lost in all the abbreviations ! Some of the stickies explain them but when you're trying to make sense of thread it's easy to lose the meaning if it's not explicit enough !

I'm still waiting for a referral from my GP for gender/sexual counselling ! I'm hoping that I can get enough answers to finally settle my mind ! I'm not sure how successful it will be but the brain has a nasty habit of changing direction just when you think you have things sorted !

[PaulaQ]

Can we just drop the term TS already? It was invented by the medical community to describe their rather strict interpretation of the gender binary. Its really not relevant.

When we speak of "transition" it is generally assumed to mean gender transition - I.e. changing to live as a gender other than your sex assigned at birth.

I do not disagree that many here are undergoing a kind of transition with regards to the way they deal with their feelings about being trans.

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

Thanks for your comments back and while some may not agree with my concept and is their right to do so, as I said . . . this is how I see it from my own opinion. :battingeyelashes:



No Isha, you haven't "transitioned." You have come to accept yourself. That's it. For those that are TS, they first accept themselves THEN they transition, living, full time, as the gender they are.

Hi Jen,

If you had taken time to read my post I did not say "I have transitioned" in the sense of how it is defined by many in the community (I think I stated that quite clearly). The term transition to me means "accepting myself (as both you and I pointed out) to become the person I need to be. That is transitioning from one aspect of my life to another. Just because I am TG does not mean I can't use the term because I have to be what . . . TS to transition. Seriously???


Can we just drop the term TS already? It was invented by the medical community to describe their rather strict interpretation of the gender binary. Its really not relevant.

When we speak of "transition" it is generally assumed to mean gender transition - I.e. changing to live as a gender other than your sex assigned at birth.

I do not disagree that many here are undergoing a kind of transition with regards to the way they deal with their feelings about being trans.

Paula,

Again this seems to be a touchy subject for you and I did not want to cause offence to you or anyone in the TS (sorry it's all I have but I suppose I could say trans woman or trans man) community. This is my take on how the term transitioning has become pigeon holed to one side of the spectrum where I don't believe it has to be.

Isha

[MsVal]

As a noun, transition is the process of changing. As a verb, it is the change itself.

We transition in many ways. Eg: We go to school to transition from ignorant to knowledgeable. While there, we are in transition, or ''transitioning".

In the context of this discussion I am in transition from what I was to something different. I am not sure of the final state except that it is something quite a bit more feminine than masculine.

I like to direct my energy and my thoughts toward a known goal. There is no defined end-state to this change and the uncertainty is quite unsettling to me. It was a topic at last week's therapy session.

If you look for me, all you will find is where I was. I'm not there anymore, I'm somewhere else.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Bria]

Ms Val rightly points out that many of us don't have a defined goal and that makes it hard to know when you have arrived at the point that you need to be. As I said in my previous post, it is only you that can define the end point of your transition. Usually when we are on journey, we know exactly were we are going and how long it takes. "Are we there yet?" is the frequent question, but if the end of the journey is an unknown, how can one start to feel relief that the journey is nearly over. If we don't know the end point maybe we don't stop there, but keep on going, not knowing that we should have stopped sooner.

I wish I had the answers to these questions!

Hugs, Bria

[kimdl93]

I tread lightly on the subject of transition, because I don't want to convey any confusion about the magnitude of life changes faced by transsexuals. So, I try to distinguish between 'a' transition and 'THE' transition. I feel that many of us so-called middle pathers are making a transition Of sorts when we live more open and active lives, presenting as women. Regardless of our motivations, we inevitably relate in a new way to the world and particularly those most meaningful to us. That is no small thing. It may be a resting point on the path to THE transition or in large measure, it may be all the change we can accomplish in our lives.

[Sarah Doepner]

I tread lightly on the subject of transition, because I don't want to convey any confusion about the magnitude of life changes faced by transsexuals. So, I try to distinguish between 'a' transition and 'THE' transition. I feel that many of us so-called middle pathers are making a transition Of sorts when we live more open and active lives, presenting as women. Regardless of our motivations, we inevitably relate in a new way to the world and particularly those most meaningful to us. That is no small thing. It may be a resting point on the path to THE transition or in large measure, it may be all the change we can accomplish in our lives.

That "middle-path" is 6-8 lane freeway with lots of exits, rest stops and more than a few distractions. Some of them worth spending years investigating. I've seen no reason for me, so far, to jump on the express lane to that full Transition destination. I'm not out to old friends and family so far, so I'm not on that part of the path yet. However, I have made enough changes in my life over the years that I'm very different from what I might have been without this transition/personal acceptance/change. In fact, it's one of those things that some people, who have not seen me in a long time tend to notice. I hope it makes them happy because it usually does that for me.

[ReineD]

So, this got me thinking . . . what does transitioning really mean? When a person realizes they are truly TS and need to align their body with their target gender, we always talk about transitioning from one gender to the other . . . that makes perfect sense as it is a transition. However, I think for many here and definitely in my own case . . . transitioning can also mean personal growth.

The Oxford English Dictionary definition:

n. The process or a period of changing from one state or condition to another.
v. Undergo or cause to undergo a process or period of transition.

So it means "change". And there are lots of different types of transition: transitioning from single to married, from child-less to parent, and then again to empty-nester, from married to divorce, transitioning from one career to another.

1. In terms of a physical transition between two gender-states:
Using this forum's meaning I think there are different end points. A person can undergo a full transition between male and female, or as full as medical science will allow, and present completely as the sex opposite than birth together with living it full time.

But then there are people who undergo a partial transition, to the point where they present a blend of gender cues ... as in your case. The people you encounter believe you to be a male with some feminine characteristics (eyebrows, lack of body hair, maybe a lack of body mass compared to other males, however there are also males who do not have a lot of body mass). Other people may wish to add breast augmentation to the mix and still present, or being taken by others, as a male. Some FtMs prefer to adopt and live full-time wearing male haircuts and male clothing, while not taking hormones and retaining their breasts and their feminine voices. But, strangers who encounter these FtMs will not define them as male in the same way that they define my brother (for example) as male.

2. In terms of an identity transition between two gender-states:
Again, I think there are different end points. There are people who have always felt one gender residing inside a body that had opposite sexual characteristics. You see it all the time in stories of two year olds who tell their mothers, "I a girl" or "I a boy". When they grow up and alter their bodies to match who they are, I don't see this as an identity transition.

But then there are people who did, for most of their lives, feel comfortable identifying as the gender matching their physical characteristics and who later on discoverer this is not satisfactory for them. So they may begin a process of internal change, of moving away from thinking of themselves strictly as males to being gender flexible or also having female characteristics.

3. Identity vs affinities.
There are [insert label of choice] who were always attracted to some of the trappings of femininity (the clothes, the cachet, the soft voices, etc), but who also felt satisfied as men. Is this identity or affinity? The spectrum of possible answers is too vast to begin touching upon here. It would take volumes to explore all the personality, lifestyle, and background variables that can fit into a situation like this.

[Dianne S]

I find myself agreeing with Jenniferathome. To me, a transition is a visible, permanent change. But it's hard to know when one has started transitioning and when one has finished.

I consider the start of my transition to have been my first laser session. I was consciously altering my body with the goal of appearing feminine. But for me, transition was still somewhat unreal until about two weeks ago when I started living and working full-time as a woman. I think doing that without having the safety of falling back on male presentation is the real start of transition.

I guess my transition will end when I just think of myself as a woman and the whole "transgender" issue fades into the background. I suspect that's years away.

[PaulaQ]

No Isha, you haven't "transitioned." You have come to accept yourself. That's it. For those that are TS, they first accept themselves THEN they transition, living, full time, as the gender they are.

Jennifer, you don't know the first thing about this. Seriously! There are a lot of gender identies you simply ignore here. There are many who's identities don't match the gender binary of cisnormative society.


Again this seems to be a touchy subject for you and I did not want to cause offence to you or anyone in the TS (sorry it's all I have but I suppose I could say trans woman or trans man) community. This is my take on how the term transitioning has become pigeon holed to one side of the spectrum where I don't believe it has to be.


The term transsexual originated in the medical and psychological communities, and is an older term than transgender. Many prefer the term transgender and consider transsexual to be outdated and derogatory, due to its roots in describing the identity as a disease.[30] Additionally, transsexual is considered a misnomer by some people because the underlying condition is related to gender identity and not sexuality

I understand that there are a variety of responses to gender dysphoria, one of them being the medical, social, legal transition that many of us undergo. The problem with the term "transsexual" is that it totally focuses on medical transition, including "the surgery", when there are so many other paths. The problem with not using it is that people like me, highly gender binary identified, undergoing medical transition, exist, and there is no way to distinguish our identity from other transgender individuals. Politically, this makes sense, as focusing on our genitalia is just not helpful nor productive for anyone. Within the community itself, though, it does make it kind of hard to discuss ourselves.

And no, you didn't offend me.

BTW, in my opinion, you are doing a gender transition. You are socially transitioning, and transitioning on the job. Your identity is apparently neither solidly male or female, or it shifts back and forth over time. Perhaps you'll become more binary aligned later, or not, but you are clearly expressing a gender variant identity, and are making serious changes to your life to accommodate it. This is transition. No, you are doing neither medical nor probably ever legal legal transition, but your public visibility marks a serious transition, in my opinion. Sure, your identity is different than mine, and your GD isn't at the nightmare level mine was. That simply makes you lucky.

This is why I don't like the term transsexual - it denies and erases your identity, and let's people tell you what you are or are not.

Anyone who hasn't come out to their boss, and shows up to work only in boy mode has no business trying to deny the significance or difficulty of what you are doing.

[Marcelle]

I find myself agreeing with Jenniferathome. To me, a transition is a visible, permanent change. But it's hard to know when one has started transitioning and when one has finished.

I consider the start of my transition to have been my first laser session. I was consciously altering my body with the goal of appearing feminine. But for me, transition was still somewhat unreal until about two weeks ago when I started living and working full-time as a woman. I think doing that without having the safety of falling back on male presentation is the real start of transition.

I guess my transition will end when I just think of myself as a woman and the whole "transgender" issue fades into the background. I suspect that's years away.

Sorry Dianne,

I can't agree on this point but I understand your POV. Transition is a state of change from one aspect of one's life to another (physical, metaphysical, emotional or whatever) . . . permanent change has nothing to do with it. I have taken some permanent changes most notably "laser hair removal" and I have outed myself both in my personal and professional life to the point where I will be presenting one day a week at work as a woman . . . which is not easy given we are talking about the Canadian Armed Forces.

I do take exception with the phrase " ... without the safety of falling back on male presentation". Going to work in such an environment even once is not easy and irrespective of having the "safety" to fall back into male presentation, it will not negate the fact that all have seen me dressed and all know. Even now, do you think for one minute that when I give orders, chair working groups or just interact with people at work they are not thinking . . . "Hmm, that guy wears a dress sometimes" and for some that definitely flavors how they treat me "male or female". So while I can change my presentation, that bell cannot be silenced . . . I may not live 24/7 but I still do not have this mythical "safety net" you are alluding to.

Isha

[Donnagirl]

Isha,

It's taken my a while to fully comprehend your comments and the more I re-read them the more I'm starting to understand. I think it is easy to fall into the 'standard definition' of transition, the process used to describe that physical change undertaken by those identifying as transexual to alter the external to match the internal. To align the body with the mind.

As I have discussed previously I cannot seem to find a cosy pigeonhole to slot into, a neat definition to encapsulate the 'me' and to differentiate that me from the plethora of other definitions. I don't believe I'm a cross dresser, I doubt I'm transexual... Do I fit in between? Is there an in between? Does it matter? Do I need a label?

However I do think I've found a niche, a state I'm currently transitioning into... Face lasered, weight lost, I've even used several of the willing volunteers to pugalisticslly straighten my nose!!! I've engaged a psych, have a doctor / endo overseeing a low dose HRT. In a similar vein, I'm effectively 'out' to everyone. I have no means to undo that. Most have met Donna and there's no unseeing what has been seen. Where I am now is permanent. I'm markedly different physically, emotionally, financially from what I was a few years ago. Whereas it can be argued that, using this definition we all transition throughout life, childhood to adolescence, adult to senior and so one, I think that's more a progression than transition. Evolution through states that are clearly mapped and understood. Transition is, if anything, a variation to that path, a step outside the expected norm.

I have moved from one state to another, I've transitioned (or I am still transitioning) to an identified end state, a transition as real in my understanding as anyone else's. Are more changes possible? Probably, is that another transition or a continuation? Does it matter? I've stepped of that well worn track of predictable, socially accepted normality.

Thanks Isha, you make me think....

[Dianne S]

I do take exception with the phrase " ... without the safety of falling back on male presentation".

Hi, Isha,

My apologies. I had no intention whatsoever of minimizing your courage. In fact, I think you're far more gutsy than I am. I own my own small company, so coming out at work carried pretty much no risk for me, whereas coming out in the Canadian Armed Forces was immensely risky and brave.

If you do present female sometimes at work, then yes... you have definitely transitioned. But I think it's the public reveal that denotes a true transition rather than the private coming to terms.

Regards,

Dianne.

[ReineD]

Transition is a state of change from one aspect of one's life to another (physical, metaphysical, emotional or whatever) . . . permanent change has nothing to do with it.

In the purest sense of the word, "transition" means what you say, any change, not just permanent change. People go through many transitions (and back again) in life all the time. And certainly in the case of a gender-flexible person, there are frequent transitions to a female appearance and back to a male appearance again.

But the way the term "transition" has been defined when it comes to changing sexes (which is why the term "transsexual" is certainly more descriptive since it means changing (for MtFs) a male sex to a female sex as far as medical science can accomplish), usually goes just one way because it it too much to keep transitioning to female and back to male again repeatedly over a lifetime. The losses are too great and few people can reinvent their lives repeatedly to such an extent.

It is your prerogative if you want to redefine the term for yourself and perhaps for others here who will not undergo the traditional full transition, but keep in mind that when you read the term in medical journals they will be referring to full, sexual transition.

But ... in order to not have constant battles in future threads as we do with the term "Transgender", or "Crossdresser", I suggest that we specify the type of transition from the onset: full transition, or partial transition, with the implication that we are speaking of changing the body (the primary and/or secondary sexual characteristics).

[stefan37]

Sorry Dianne,

I can't agree on this point but I understand your POV. Transition is a state of change from one aspect of one's life to another (physical, metaphysical, emotional or whatever) . . . permanent change has nothing to do with it. I have taken some permanent changes most notably "laser hair removal" and I have outed myself both in my personal and professional life to the point where I will be presenting one day a week at work as a woman . . . which is not easy given we are talking about the Canadian Armed Forces.

I do take exception with the phrase " ... without the safety of falling back on male presentation". Going to work in such an environment even once is not easy and irrespective of having the "safety" to fall back into male presentation, it will not negate the fact that all have seen me dressed and all know. Even now, do you think for one minute that when I give orders, chair working groups or just interact with people at work they are not thinking . . . "Hmm, that guy wears a dress sometimes" and for some that definitely flavors how they treat me "male or female". So while I can change my presentation, that bell cannot be silenced . . . I may not live 24/7 but I still do not have this mythical "safety net" you are alluding to.

Isha

I'm not going to debate your's or anyone's definition of transition mainly because as Reine said it is what you think it is. But the fact remains at the end of the day your identity is predominately male. You may float back and forth but again you identify primarily male. Yes your workers have seen you in female attire, but I'll guarantee you they think you are male. They may think you are eccentric, weird, what's up with guy wearing female attire. You are still male. You can fall back on the safety of being male because you are and you identify as much.
Transition to me is accepting the reality you are transsexual and take action to medically and socially live as a female 24/7. That is what Dianne referred to living without the safety of male presentation. Taking hormones to align mind and body. Legally changing your name and Id markers to reflect your female identity. Going to work every day as a female and living 24/7. For us there is no going back and forth. Informing your family, friends, co-workers, employers, etc. You intend to live your life female and take those actions to interact with society as female.

[PaulaQ]

To me, taking steps to be comfortable in your own skin, and with your own identity, and to be able to live and work as the gender with which you identify is transition. I believe a great many trans people would agree with me on this.


It is your prerogative if you want to redefine the term for yourself and perhaps for others here who will not undergo the traditional full transition, but keep in mind that when you read the term in medical journals they will be referring to full, sexual transition.

Uh no. We're trying to change that.

The medical community's track record with trans people has been abysmal. It's still abysmal for the most part, but there are some signs of improvement. There are many, many medical professionals who've violated oaths they swore by neglecting or refusing care for transgender persons. The bulk of the medical community has not earned, and does not deserve, our trust.

For example, we gave out an award this weekend named for a local trans woman who died 9 years ago. She died from complications of diabetes. Finding herself in pain, the local public country hospital, the one required by law to treat everyone, refused her care, and she died later that night. (They've subsequently begun to at least treat us, and we are making inroads with them to actually provide trans specific healthcare, if nothing else, as part of their efforts to curb HIV infections.) Or how about the hospital I called in Tyler Texas on behalf of a woman living in that city. They had no idea how to deal with transgender people - I asked. And indeed, when I identified myself as transgender, they immediately started referring to me as "sir" rather than "ma'am."

There is no such thing as full transition. I have no idea what you are even talking about. Are you telling me that a trans man who chooses not to have bottom surgery because of the expense, and because their surgical options still frankly suck even if they had limitless resources, can't fully transition? (Again whatever the hell that is?)

We've made strides in the US in many states to reduce or eliminate the need for genital surgery to allow identity documents to be altered. This was one reason people who didn't really need GRS ended up getting it in the past - because if they wanted ID's that matched their identity and presentation, they had to get such a surgery, or live with incorrect identity documents. Believe me, living without ID's that match your gender and appearance is a special kind of hell.

It's still too difficult in many places to get identity documentation changed, and this is a problem the trans community continues to work on. (In my state, the county in which I live, and a couple of others, make it relatively easy to change identity documentation. One county over? No freaking way you get an ID change, no matter how many surgeries or medical treatments you get - the conservative judges don't care.

I mention "legal transition" - i.e. getting identity documents and other legal identity papers changed to match your gender, because that's often the end goal for many, and it's also the intersection of where the most intensely painful, private and difficult thing a human being can experience (transition) intersects with public policy. Much of what constitutes the legal side of this is really pointless - does my photo ID really need to mention my sex? (Name changes are, generally speaking, granted by courts. It's that gender marker that's the problem.)

I know this is difficult for cisgender people to comprehend this - but this isn't about sex for us, it's about our identity. Some of us need GRS because the incongruence between our minds and bodies are difficult to bear because of our genitals. Many of us do not. A trans woman who chooses not to have GRS is still a woman. A trans man who never has GRS is still a man - and let me tell you, many of them are men among men.


Transition to me is accepting the reality you are transsexual and take action to medically and socially live as a female 24/7. That is what Dianne referred to living without the safety of male presentation. Taking hormones to align mind and body. Legally changing your name and Id markers to reflect your female identity. Going to work every day as a female and living 24/7. For us there is no going back and forth. Informing your family, friends, co-workers, employers, etc. You intend to live your life female and take those actions to interact with society as female.

This is only true for those of us, me included, who identify with cisnormative gender standards - i.e. the gender binary. Many, many trans persons do not. I'd suggest that anyone who puts up with the stuff Isha does probably isn't doing this to be eccentric. Whether Isha is primarily male or female identified is irrelevant. Indeed, in some respects it's worse if they are male identified, because there is no social template for feminine men other than effeminate gay men.

At least you and I get a one word answer for how we identify - "women."

That said, Isha's situation is very different from ours. But that doesn't make it any less valid. If Isha started spouting off about how easy this all was, her transition, how those of us who take medical and legal steps to transition are just complaining too much, that would be a totally different matter. But as far as I can tell, she just isn't. And who's to say what will happen in the future? Perhaps, as has happened with some others here, we'll say a post from her one day about starting HRT. Or perhaps not. But I think it's presumptuous of us to discount what she is doing.

[stefan37]

We all need to take steps to be comfortable in our own bodies. I only defined what transition means to me. People can identify how ever they choose. The situations you describe Paula are those where individuals have taken steps to socially live as the opposite gender. What surgeries they have or get us personal to them. They have still taken the steps and actions to live opposite their birth gender. A gender variant or fluid individual dues not face the same challenges getting adequate health care. They can always fall back on their birth gender. Those of us that live 24/7 and have legally changed our names don't have that luxury.

Were I able to still live the gender life as Isha does. I would still be married, and not suffer the many challenges I do today.

I defined what transition means to me and me alone. I lived many years as a gender fluid individual and although I may have been in transitional mode, I never saw it that way. Neither did my wife. It mattered not how i internally identified. It was the external identification that all saw. Telling her I was going to actively transition was very difficult and starting HRT was the breaking point for her.

I'm transitioning at work from field operations to Executive administration. That transition is very different than transitioning from MTF.

What an individual does to be comfortable is as valid as my need to live as female. But the differences between the two are night and day.

How Isha is living her life is admirable and if it's working and making her live comfortably in her own skin. That is great.

[ReineD]

It mattered not how i internally identified. It was the external identification that all saw.

Well, your internal identification did matter to you, but I should think it is rare for people in your situation to be happy with only that. You (and other MtF TSs) also want others to identify you as a woman. This is why TSs go through everything they go through (electrolysis, FFS, BAs, SRS) so they can stop being misgendered. So the way that others see us is hugely important.

One thing we're missing here I think (I'm in a rush and have not read every post here), is the fact there are people who do want their Transgender (or gender fluid, or feminine male, or androgynous, or whichever label is preferred) status to be recognized, mirrored back from others, and thus validated. Maybe they don't want to be seen by others purely as a woman (or a man), since they choose to not take all the steps that transitioning TSs go through. The trouble though is that people in general have a hard time putting anyone outside the female or male gender box.

[PaulaQ]

A gender variant or fluid individual dues not face the same challenges getting adequate health care. They can always fall back on their birth gender. Those of us that live 24/7 and have legally changed our names don't have that luxury.

I agree that living 24/7, changing name and gender markers, etc. don't have the ability to fall back on male privilege. This is a huge loss. (Many women I know have the last day of their long, successful careers on the day they came out as trans.) However, Isha came out on the job, so I suspect the man-card isn't so easy to play there anymore. I have actually no idea what that would be like - it's hard enough getting people to acknowledge those of us who fit the gender binary as women and men. I'd think it would be difficult to be such a person - someone who really isn't either one, exactly, or at least not what society thinks of when they use a word like "man" or "woman." At least it's difficult if you aren't still trying to pass as cisgender. Obviously passing as your assigned at birth gender avoids a lot of hassles. But that doesn't seem to be the case here does it?

Some gender variant people do still have HRT, or other medical procedures - top surgery would be the more obvious one.

Look - I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. I know what transition means to me, for me, and I suspect you and I are probably on more or less the same page. I've just noticed that sometimes people get dogmatic about this (not saying you were) - trying to have a recipe for how to be trans. That's the only reason I said anything. I tend to try to respect other's journey's, even if I really do not understand them.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

I think some folks are missing the deeper, philosophical meaning in Isha's OP. I think what Isha is trying to convey is that she is growing as a person, and she is using the term "transitioning" to capture the idea she is in the middle of this process. She is just taking a term we use around here a lot and applying it in a new way. The thing is, all of us are in a process of transition is some way. The human experience is one of constant growth and change as we acquire new knowledge (especially of ourselves) and experiences. The person I am today is not the same person I was last year, ten years ago, and definitely not 20 years ago when I first went en femme. I'm also not going to be the same person 1, 10 or 20 years from now. We are never at the final destination of personal development, so we must be in transition. I understand the desire to take ownership of a term that has such personal implications and resist others attempts to redefine it, but Isha's post was a personal musing meant to broaden our understanding her experience.

Bridget

[stefan37]

I fully understand where Isha is. I lived a gender fluid life for years before the intensity and internal battle overcame and I had to relent. Maybe it's the area Isha and I live in. I taugt at a local Vo-Tech and in my own construction business with pierced ears, eyeliner, colored nails and women's tops, jeans and shoes. Yeah you have to push your comfort level, but doing so and having the confidence to own allowed me and Isha from her posts to be accepted. But only a couple actually thought I may be transitioning. When I did jump off the cliff. The school has been extremely supportive and accomadating. I have been accepted by my peers in my professional life.

But as difficult as living in the middle can be. It is far different than taking hormones and legally socializing and living 24/7 as a member opposite your birth gender.

I'll be clear I don't judge nor do I invalidate how anybody identifies or lives. I can only live my life and relate my experience.

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

Again . . . thanks for your comments, reflections, expansions and observations. I want to reiterate this post was not meant to insult, demean, upset any of the TS folks who have read this or minimalize their own journey and I believe I was quite clear in that regard. This was my observation of what "transitioning" means to me. Yes, I have the ability to move between male and female and back again but I have still transitioned in the sense I am not the same person I was before internally and in some ways externally. I am not trying to coopt the term transition in the medical sense and I fully understand what it means for TS folks.

I take what I do very seriously and as Paula noted, I am no insinuating that TS folks who transition have it easy, indeed I find you some of the bravest people I know as it must be extremely gut wrenching to potentially give up everything to be who you need to be 24/7. However, in kind, this does not minimalize mine or others internal struggle whether they are out and about or deeply closeted. We all face challenges on a personal level even though they may be different they are still very real to the person. I have taken a public beating for being who I choose to be, I have little doubt I can ever play the "man card" at work again and while my wife is supportive of who I choose to be, I am also cognizant that our personal relationship has been somewhat redefined on a base level which I can never get back.

All this to say, this is what transition means to me (heavy emphasis on the me) and with that goes certain challenges I have to face and own up to in order to continue on my journey. So please again this is not meant to minimalize anyone else's experience with transitioning or an attempt to redefine how it is used here . . . the term as I apply it to me is internalized only to me not externalize to the community writ large. :)

Hugs

Isha

[melanie206]

Definitions be damned! Viva la spectrum! We should be what we feel we are and, at this point, chemicals and surgery aren't me. I am very comfortable with the concept of gender fluidity.

[becky77]

Hi Isha

I totally get what you are trying to convey, especially as what you are going through is far more than just CDing.

My issue is this, we all know what the word Transition means, however when it comes to the trans community it is a ready made definition to easily identify what someone is doing. Someone says they are Transitioning we all (used to) know what that means.

We do have our own trans meanings:
For example, to say "I went out dressed" means to the rest of the world that you went out and you wasn't naked. In the Trans community it means something else and is readily understood as going out in female attire.
CD is a compact disc, in the trans community it means to Crossdress etc etc.
We use the definitions not to confine someone to a rigid role but so that we can easily communicate ourselves.

For me Transition (in Trans speak) means being identified as female when once you was male (visa versa for Transmen), this includes fulltime, working, legal name change etc. As far as I am aware that is generally accepted terminology.
I look at transition from an ousiders point of view rather than internal. If the outside world treat and call you a woman at all times then it is transition?

Where I think the issue lies is on one end of the scale we have TS who 'transition' and at the other CD's that enjoy their life secure in their identity.
What we lack is any real meaning to all those in between, rather than borrow and confuse with an existing known definition, perhaps it's time to coin a new one?
How about Transfiguration :)


Transition in itself is misunderstood with all sorts of different view points, shame as it seems pretty simple. I have no idea why people get irritated by it, my guess is that in a way it's exlusive, which shuts the door on those that have made some drastic changes to their life but who have not or will not finish this particular journey.

I think because transition as a word (outside of trans speak), is descriptive of any major change in life, it's probably more suited here. However it has been used medically to mean a very specific action and to add further confusion is a little pointless.
It would be like saying I broke my arm, because you damaged all the muscle and bruised it badly and can not use it for months, in effect your arm is broken in the sense that it is damaged and unusable. However medically when one says they have a broken arm we all take it to mean the bone is broken.

People seem to get all worked up about definitions but in reality it is just a communication tool, so that we all have an understanding.

I find it odd that we say TS (those who identify as female), CD (those who identify as male but enjoy/need to dress in female attire), then what???
Oh Transgender, you know that umbrella term that actually fits all. So what of the middle pathers, those that are out, making changes and are ok with being trans. it's like they are left in some no mans land, neither male or female.
This is the greatest failing as there are so many more in this catagory and yet still they are left feeling they should pick sides. Male or female? Well neither actually is ok.
Being TS is a bum deal, but at least I know where I belong and who I am, i'm female, it was hard getting here but now I am it's pretty straight forward. Being somewhere inbetween is harder in someways, as the world just doesn't yet cater for them and even on here we have no actual words for it.
Even on here it's like "well are you TS or CD?" when the answer is neither, "What are you then?" erm.........
Surely that's what we need to address.

Anyway Isha very pleased you have evolved so well.

I'm not going to say you haven't transitioned as you clearly have (just not in a way we recognise in the trans community), I just say find a new term and own it, things are getting confusing lol.

[ReineD]

. . . the term as I apply it to me is internalized only to me not externalize to the community writ large.

Sorry, Isha. I'm so used to the debates in this forum, I took it this was up for discussion as well. I also misunderstood, I thought you were wanting to redefine the term 'transition' the way it has been used here.

[PaulaQ]

The problems with the common definitions of 'transition' used here and other places, as well as terms like 'transsexual' is that they imply that the only valid trans identities are the ones that conform post transition to the cisnormative gender binary. My identity conforms in that way - so you might well ask "well ok Paula, what's your complaint here?'

Well, there are several problems I see here:
1 Using a highly medicalized definition of transition has historically been used to control or limit or access to authentic lives. For example, suppose Isha's employer had refused to let her present as female at work unless she could show that she was on HRT. These types of limitations exist in many places, particularly with regards to identity documentation. (I don't have a solution for identity documentation for non-binary people.) As an extreme case, would it be ok to require Isha to have SRS before presenting as female at work ever? Seems crazy, right? But the thing is, historically the person making such policies has not been trans, and they usually make horrible policies.

2. There is frequently a culture in some parts of the trans community where "she who has the most medical procedures wins." That is, someone with the privilege to get a lot of trans medical procedures has more validity than someone lacking that privilege. This is simply sick.

3. Denying the legitimacy of non-binary identities actually makes transition harder for those of us who ARE binary. We all go through a phase where we are between our old life and our new lives, and people don't generally understand this. Compassion for non-binary people makes it easier for us going through something temporarily that often looks the same from the outside.

4. It's very easy, if we let social conventions govern this, to make passability a requirement for decent treatment for trans individuals. That is "you can be trans only if we don't have to know about it." This is a death sentence for many of us, and fighting this is why I stand up in my community and am visible as a trans woman. I simply can't allow such attitudes to stand.

[Beverley Sims]

I thought about it deeply many years ago, then I got married.

Did other things and had a change of lifestyle.

I do wonder, what if I never married.

I may have followed two of my girlfriends who never looked as good as I did when they started.

[Marcelle]

I guess I may have inadvertently opened a can of worms with my silly musing this time around. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on some facts and not on other. I do again apologize if I have given offence and ask for the moderators to close this thread before it spins out of control into an "Us/Them" thread.

Hugs

Isha

[Katey888]

At poster's request and as we've now totally used up our semantics points for the month of May... thread closed.

Katey
Moderator