TSs and children !

[Teresa]

At the moment I consider myself to be a CDer with issues that still need to be explored, hopefully the next round of counselling won't take too long !
Despite whatever feelings I have inside one thing that I have no regrets over is being in a relationship that produced children ,( now also grandchildren!) Whatever takes place in the future, if I end with a piece of paper suggesting I'm not man anymore and a question mark if I'm still a father I will always be a parent and be proud of it, that's something no one can take away !

Thinking along these lines a question occurred to me that possibly applies to TSs who have fully transitioned , I have read many articles and looked through the threads in this section . The overwhelming need is to align body and mind, to become a female they always thought they should be, in the process sexual function may take a back seat in achieving this, obviously not in all cases and many say they have a minimal interest in it .
My question is because I've seen very little evidence of TSs saying that their goal in life if it were possible would be to become pregnant and have children, if they had been born a woman that would be their biggest consideration !
Yes I do realise that not all GGs want children or enjoy having them ! So is this a piece of the puzzle that will always be missing or is it a feeling that despite the overwhelming need to transition the need to bear children never comes into the equation it's only in the head of a naturally born woman ?

[ClaraKay]

Interesting question, Teresa. I think the desire, drive, or instinct to bear children shows up rather early in a woman's life and may also be influenced considerably by environmental factors (upbringing). I'm guessing that examining the attitudes of young transsexual women (in their teens and 20's) about their inability to become pregnant and bear a child would reveal much of the same lament that genetic woman feel when they discover that they can't have children.

[Thea Pauline]

I too would agree that much of this will be influenced by the age of the individual, in addition to their natural inclination towards having children and their individual circumstances.

I first married in my mid twenties, after having declared that I would never have children as a result of a pregnancy which occurred because I had been deceived regarding birth control. Personal responsibility has always been high on my list of traits to encourage, so I got married, had a daughter, divorced 3 years later and became a weekly father. We both ended up with happy memories of that time for the most part, and since coming out to her, my daughter is the most supportive of anyone I've come out to since starting transition.

That being said, transition came in my fifties and the realization that even if current medical procedures allowed for the growth of a womb with all the associated systems, I would be late to the party, influences my decisions in such things. Combine these issues with my initial inclination to not have children, (which I suspect was a subconscious acknowledgement of being TS) and the chances I would want to go through the effort are minimal.

Perhaps if I had figured all this out before puberty and had not internalized so much angst regarding my body and identity, I would feel differently. That however, is all conjecture and I'm quite happy with my child and the grandchildren she has produced, so I have a great foundation with which to move forward as a woman. And that makes me the happiest of anything I've ever done.

So, in summary, I don't think these thoughts are limited to a natal female, but keep in mind the average TS has a lot going on if they've made it to adulthood prior to transition and many probably cannot cope with the additional stress.

Thea

[ReineD]

I was on a TS guidance site the other day, I can't remember if it was Road Maps or another one, in the section for HRT and anti-androgens. They strongly recommended freezing sperm for anyone contemplating transition who might want children in the future. I took it this was addressed to younger TSs, since middle-aged or older people don't tend to start families.

[becky77]

It's never been an option so I buried it deep. For me it was too wrong to father a child/be a father figure.
Being a natal mother is denied me, so I try not to think on it.
Due to my gender issues I was far to messed up and not living female for there to be an adoption consideration, now it's just another one of life's bitterness's I have to deal with.

Now I'm too old and especially with the hormones, it's just another one of the hurts I carry due to this crappy illness that is being TS.

Thanks for reminding me, something else to discuss with the therapist next week given how replying to this just made me feel.

[Leah Lynn]

We not only don't get the oven, we don't get the pelvis to give birth. A Ceasarian would be necessary.

Even if possible, that's one thing I would have to pass on.

Leah

[Teresa]

The point I was making is that after full transition most needs are hopefully satisfied leading to a happier life but not all aspects of womanhood are needed to satisfy the desire to align mind and body ! As I said at the start I've seen very little evidence of the need to bear children even if it were possible !

[gonegirl]

We not only don't get the oven, we don't get the pelvis to give birth. A Ceasarian would be necessary.Leah

Thats not true of everyone. Turns out I have the pelvis at least....

To the OP: When I truly accepted the fact I am female, and was set free to live my own life, I had an overwhelming feeling of loss come over me. (One of many...) but this feeling was the loss of being unable to bear a child. I know that millions of women feel that loss, but it doesn't make it any easier...

[Eringirl]

It has always been a huge sadness for me that I was not able to bear children. Too old now regardless.

Becky: I had that conversation with my therapist last year. I get where you are coming from.

Erin

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I would have hated to not have kids. I am super thankful that i have my kids.

I cant say for sure if its instinct or my gender but i mothered my kids more than fathered them (that is a very broad traditionalist generalization but rather than go into details i'll let it stand)

that being said it never entered my mind to actually bear children.

[becky77]

As I said at the start I've seen very little evidence of the need to bear children even if it were possible !

From my perspective it's because almost no one understands and i'm too bitter to bother explaining it to someone that is dismissive of my feelings.
I had this discussion with my Mum a few months ago, as she knew I was very against having kids pre-transition.
I tried to explain that I couldn't be a father, I was trying my hardest to be a man and being a Father was beyond my ability, also my life was such a lie and I was so damaged, I couldn't even think of bringing a child into that.
I would have loved to have been a mother, I have had dreams about it that have been so vivid and the way they have left me feeling, but it wasn't to be.
Since hormones that feeling has amplified.

She said, imagine how bad it is for those women that can't have children, I said I am one of those women and she just didn't get it.
I may be living as a woman for the rest of my life, but those who knew me before will still only see some mixed up guy.

I admire those who have been successful parents regardless of the gender status.

I'm maternal I can't be paternal, is there anyone who understands that? It's a feeling deep inside I can't explain.
The issue I have with the Trans community and people I have made an effort to meet, is that I still don't feel anyone gets me other than other women.
But other women can still be dismissive, as if I will never understand fully because well, i'm not truly one of them!!

It's all too crazy.

[gonegirl]

I very much get what you're saying, Becky. I've had that discussion with people also, and most don't get it, but I've disregarded anyone's differing opinion with regard to who and what I am, and gone ahead and been myself. I'm a mom to my children. They have two moms, just like millions of other kids around the planet. There's nothing complicated about it or difficult to understand, not from mine or my kids' perspective at least.

[ReineD]

What in your views defines maternal vs. paternal? Maybe I don't understand what is meant by this because of the way I am and my own personal experience with my children.

Fo example: I believe in allowing children to learn and grow by their mistakes. This meant not imposing such strict rules that they could not make mistakes, and not saving them when they did, in other words allowing them to experience the natural consequences of their actions all while making sure that their safety was not compromised ... as painful as it was for me to witness their suffering when they did experience those consequences. For example, if they didn't do their homework they got an F. This, in my opinion, was the very best way to prepare them for their adult life because it set them free by teaching them responsibility. My husband, on the other hand, felt the need to protect them at all costs, he took personal responsibility for their homework for example, and it was difficult for him to see them become their own person and grow beyond the confines of parental authority and protection. I would not make my children's beds past the age of 12 or do their laundry past the age of 16, my husband would. I would encourage my children to save for what they wanted, my husband would buy them whatever they wanted. We both love our children beyond words, we were both very physically affectionate toward our children, we both read to them, we both drove them around to all their activities, we both provided a listening ear when they needed to talk, etc. When I lost custody of my youngest child to my ex (he was entering high school and wanted to move from our small town to LA), a part of me died even though he was able to make that decision precisely because of the way I had raised him.

Is one way of being more maternal or paternal than the other?

[Bria]

Reine, you brought up exactly what I had in mind. What you described is a reversal for what I see as the "traditional" maternal and fraternal roles. Just yesterday I was talking to a 9th grader whose parents don't fit into neat boxes of maternal and paternal. Now I don't see it as bad that some of us don't fit the neat boxes but I think that it is good for kids to have both approaches. Do kids see this as here's what it is to be a man/women, I suppose so at least to a certain extent. We see on this forum that many people have trouble forcing themselves into those neat boxes that society "expects." All this said, I don't think that any of us (writ large) should be disqualified from parenthood by not fitting into a neat box of maternal/paternal inclination

Hugs, Bria

[Dianne S]

I'm really happy that I have kids. That fact makes me not regret transitioning sooner even though in many ways it would have been better for me to have done so.

I also agree with Reine on the questionable division of parenting roles into "maternal" and "paternal". I played both roles at various times with my kids. In fact, my eldest daughter did not like shopping with her mom, so when she had to get a dress for a formal dance at a school trip, I went with her. I was not out to my children at the time and it was killing me to be looking at all the great dresses. :) I ended up spotting a dress that I said would look great on my daughter, and it did... she bought it.

At the same time, I also joke around a lot with my kids and am far more rough-and-tumble and laissez-faire than my ex ever was.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Generalities do not go to specifics...

Maternal simply means being the primary emotional connection for your child at minimum and the primary child raising parent at a maximum...

a father that does this is sharing a traditional maternal role...this is a wonderful thing especially if both parents are emotionally available to help their kids make good decisions and understand consequences

[kimdl93]

As a transgendered person, I feel fortunate that circumstances have allowed me to be a parent. Note I said parent...not father or mother. I share Reine's view on parenting. It's really neither maternal nor paternal...in the appropriate times parenting provides nurturing, protection, accountability and ultimately the freedom to embark on their own lives. And I think back to a post by Jorja a few days ago, relating her very justifiable feeling of pride at helping several young TG people mature into successful adults. Parenting is not a gender role and it isn't always biological.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

my kids want me to be their dad, and their mom their mom. They are so clear about this that when i take them out and people call me their mother they correct the person..

In my upbringing, my dad played a very paternal role, my mom played a very maternal role..
if you don't know what i mean by this i can't help you..

they both loved us in their own special way..we are a happy loving family...

I guess we are just weird ...

[Bria]

I grew up in the 40s and 50s when gender roles were very strictly defined and I'm sure that that has effected the way that I have parented my five girls. When my wife and I got married, I came with two girls and a dog, and my wife came with three girls and a cat! We made one family out of it and I can assure you that parenting does not require a biological component. It does require a very large dose of unqualified love, and a lot of patience. Even though we thought that some of them would never "grow up" It has happened, sooner for some than others!

We now have 13 grandchildren and one great grandson and I couldn't be happier. It doesn't make so much difference whether parents fit into the strict gender roles of my parents as the fact that they have parents that love them unconditionally and provide the material and emotional support that they need to become successful adults!!

My 2 cents!

Hugs, Bria

[ReineD]

my kids want me to be their dad, and their mom their mom. They are so clear about this that when i take them out and people call me their mother they correct the person..

I wonder what they mean by that. Kaitlyn, next time they say this, would you ask them to elaborate and post their answers here?

Ask them how the roles differ, how the relationships differ between "mom" and "dad".

I suspect the answers will have more to do with the individual personalities that you and your ex have and how you each interact with your kids based on you personalities, rather than universal definitions of a mother's or a father's role.

I'm sure you do the same things for your kids when they are over, as your ex does: cook dinner, help with homework, drive them around, talk to them, etc.

[Teresa]

When I first posted this I was asked if I wanted it answered by fully transitioned TSs only ! My original text and reply #7 posed a specific question , some replies are very interesting but the thread has drifted off ! I can see it has raised some other important issues, maybe you'd like to post your own if you have a point to make ! May we get back to the basic question which is really what full transition means and how far short does it fall from wanting to be a complete woman ?

[Dianne S]

May we get back to the basic question which is really what full transition means and how far short does it fall from wanting to be a complete woman ?

Sure. For me, "full transition" means being accepted in my daily life as a woman. That's it; nothing else. I have no idea what it means to be a "complete woman" because I have no idea what the definition of a "complete woman" is. My sister is certainly a woman, but she and her husband were not able to have kids, so having kids isn't necessary to complete a woman.

And slightly off-topic, but Teresa, I find your love of exclamation marks slightly distracting. :)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I did ask..they said..
you are not my mom
pretty mundane LOL
i really kind of think everybody knows what a maternal role is, i think you are reading way more into what i wrote than is there...i am not stupid...i realize that "roles" are often shared and rightfully so...i sure didnt mean to cause confusion.

====

teresa
i guess i can understand the curiousity..but its just YMMV type of answer you will get... i don't have any idea what it means to be a complete woman
...and its interesting your question has morphed into "how far short does transition fall from being a complete woman?" that's a tell to me of what's going through your mind...
what's a complete woman? what makes you think transition falls short of anything?

To me Teresa transition was a means to cure my gender dysphoria...sometimes i don't even think of myself as a woman...usually i don't think of it at all... i find as transtion fades into life, my day to day femaleness just is... there is no form to it that I can touch and say "here is what i am now"...i just am and i'm no longer tortured by just existing......in fact, outside of the record of what i said and wrote, i have very little conscious memory of feeling any different than i do now..

GD is nasty business but transition kills it..in some ways that is the entire story..

I have no issue with the question, but its a rabbit hole question..i had alot of rabbit hole questions but i found no answers just more questions...

hopefully dianne you don't mind all my ........... hehe

[ReineD]

That's it; nothing else. I have no idea what it means to be a "complete woman" because I have no idea what the definition of a "complete woman" is.

I don't know either. I used to think that being a woman fundamentally meant her biological functions, but women have mastectomies, hysterectomies, etc, and it makes them no less women. Some women are heads of household (single moms with earning power), does this make them men? For that matter, what's a complete man. Some men are 5'6 with small feet. They are not incomplete men. A male librarian who isn't into sports is not less of a male. I know I'm preaching to the choir. :p


I did ask..they said..
you are not my mom
pretty mundane LOL
i really kind of think everybody knows what a maternal role is, i think you are reading way more into what i wrote than is there...i am not stupid...i realize that "roles" are often shared and rightfully so...i sure didnt mean to cause confusion.

No it's OK, you didn't confuse me. Gender roles have changed considerably since I was young and I just asked the question since it was brought up by a few people before me. There is a HUGE difference between couples in their 20s & 30s who are having kids now (when they both have careers), and the way the gender roles were defined when my parents were raising me.

This study only touches on one aspect of parenting, but it's an example of there being no difference between paternal and maternal instinct:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2013/04/16/fathers-maternal-instinct-just-as-reliable-as-a-mothers/



...and its interesting your question has morphed into "how far short does transition fall from being a complete woman?"

I don't know if my opinion is welcome here, but in my eyes, a transitioned woman does not fall short at all.

[PaulaQ]

My question is because I've seen very little evidence of TSs saying that their goal in life if it were possible would be to become pregnant and have children, if they had been born a woman that would be their biggest consideration !

I've always wanted to be able to have a child. I was bitter when I realized as a kid that I was going to be unable to conceive, that my lack of a period meant I was never going to give birth either.

I'd really like to have been able to have a baby. That I couldn't, and never will makes me enormously sad. The horrible part? My BF and I talk about this. In principle, biology would allow us to have a child together, at least had we met younger. In fact, though, both of us would choose death over the way we'd have to conceive a baby. We simply could not do it emotionally.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I agree Reine, it doesn't fall short at all.

And frankly i'll go one further. It doesn't matter if it falls short of anything, it works, it heals people.

yes, there are often big prices to pay and difficult circumstances to endure, and there are things i wish were different...but i wish alot of things.

[Sammy777]

My question is because I've seen very little evidence of TSs saying that their goal in life if it were possible would be to become pregnant and have children,
if they had been born a woman that would be their biggest consideration !

The reason(s) are fairly simple.
It is NOT possible. Therefor, it's a moot point, but also one that cuts deep for some of us.

I'm sorry, I didn't know we were still in the 50's where every girl's dream is to be barefoot and pregnant by 20.
Not every woman's, natal or otherwise, biggest consideration in life is to bear children.


It's never been an option so I buried it deep.
Being a natal mother is denied me, so I try not to think on it.
it's just another one of life's bitterness's I have to deal with.

Thanks for reminding me, something else to discuss with the therapist next week given how replying to this just made me feel.

I would have loved to have been a mother

EVERYTHING SHE SAID.

As far as parenthood pre-transition, I will leave you with this phrase: "It takes two to tango" :/

[Erika Lyne]

Teresa,

In short, Yes.

The longer answer:
As of now, I am a CDer. I've never gone to therapy, never been diagnosed clinically. So? Do qualify to answer your OP? I am not totally sure but, I'll be as honest.

My wife and I (as you probably already know from my other posts) have been together for decades and she is quite accepting of my gender issues. I have told her of every aspect that I feel that I've missed out on being forced into by being born male. Of all of the things I feel I missed out on, child birth and classic "maternal" child rearing are the aspects I feel the biggest loss. Breast feeding and the emotional bonds of pregnancy and child birth have tormented me since she had been pregnant so many years ago.

The next biggest loss is from the female celebrations: prom, weddings, bridal shower, baby shower etc. To further explain, my wife and I went to her prom together. She was driven by my parents' house on her way home from a day of pampering (hair, make up, mani/pedi, massage, etc.). She looked beautiful and happy. When she pulled up, I had been home about 30 minutes and I was a total mess after a full day working as a car mechanic and then mowing the lawn the lawn as her ride drove up. She had the whole day to prepare for this event. I ran to my car drying my hair with a towel, tux mostly undone, toothbrush hanging out of my mouth and combed my hair en route to her house for pics and limo.

Our wedding was similar. I was taking a nap 45 min prior to the late afternoon service, bored. She had spent the entire day getting ready. A chore? If it were a daily event, maybe but this was for a celebration, to prepare this thoroughly WAS a celebration--a celebration of her, for her and all about her. (I am not bitter towards my wife for enjoying herself, I would have if I were the female.)

I hope this qualifies for an acceptable answer to your OP.

Thanks for asking,
-E

[becky77]

Teresa not sure how your opening post regarding TS and children, then changed to falling short as a woman?


Most needs aren't satisfied after Transition, you have to learn to cope with all the things that were denied to you and accept what you can't be or have.
Everyone has different needs, as an example: I've always wanted to be the bride but dare not say it for being labelled just a CDer.
How easily we forget how most girls grow up dreaming of their big day. I know some people that have been planning it for years with tons of bridal mags looking for the dress, some women have that need and want and those that don't dismiss it as fantasy or a waste of time.

Why would you see evidence of wanting to bear children? a) it's a futile thing better left buried, b) as I said most people are dismissive. I discuss something that is truly gut wrenching and hurtful, half of you say its just biological and doesn't matter and you try change the subject.
No wonder no one would ever speak to you about it.

Apart from Simone, Paula and Sammy the rest obviously don't feel it, so it's impossible and pointless to explain. Saying it's just biological shows a lack of understanding.
My friend has been on IVF for ages, she is desperate to be pregnant and be a mother. My sister-in-law almost destroyed her marriage such was her need to me a natal mother.
My own Mum wanted loads of children because she had that need to be pregnant and rear children. Each of them would think you insane if I suggested the male role was the same.
On a side note another of my friends is sickened by the idea of being pregnant, giving birth and being a mother, she got sterilized.

The idea of fathering a child sickens me, can't explain it that's just how I feel.
Now feel free to tell me how wrong I am.

[cheryl reeves]

i was blessed that my wife wanted children. i wouldnt trade raising my son for no amount of money..my son knows about me and loves me unconditionally.

[Teresa]

Becky,
My my thoughts on transition stem from stories and documentaries on TV before coming to the forum, all were complete transformations . Mostly their stories were sad ones ,the feeling of being trapped in the wrong body and all they desired was to align mind and body and hopefully find happiness . In the process some were initially supported by their families including children they'd fathered but by the end the wife couldn't deal with it and wanted a divorce and the children realised they couldn't handle the loss of their father . In search of their happiness they had gone from a functioning male to a semi functioning one and then to a semi functioning female. They developed a desperate need to have more children and became deeply depressed because the transformation hadn't given them all they wanted . Counselling beforehand had dealt with this but it didn't help their desire .
Reine pointed out that having sperm frozen before transition is a possibility but who has that baby and who do you form a partnership with to act as parents ?

In years to come surgery may improve to the point of being able to provide a total transformation, I guess that is going to raise moral, ethical and medical questions on having children . At the present time it's something that the few who transition and truly wish to become a complete woman will have to live with .

Since joining the forum I've become aware of the various shades of transition not all wanting the same end point, as some of the replies suggest, some don't understand my question possibly because they don't want or have the need for a family, as Becky points out women also have different needs and problems with having children .

Unlike Becky being a father and now a grandfather is something I wouldn't have missed for the World, but I don't deny that being a Cder/TG or whatever does create problems ! No Becky I'm not saying you're wrong you just have different needs in your life.

[Dianne S]

In years to come surgery may improve to the point of being able to provide a total transformation,

If by that you mean the ability for transwomen to get pregnant and give birth, I doubt that will happen, at least not within the next one or two hundred years. We don't even have the technology to allow all genetic women who want to get pregnant to do that, so I think it's science fiction.

I also reject the term "complete woman" in this context. You don't have to have kids to be a "complete woman". I would use the term "birth mother" instead because it's more specific.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

it doesn't surprise me that there are anecdotes about transsexuals that didnt take care of their needs to raise kids.
its true they should have saved their sperm...

what comes out of your question and your follow on answers is this fascination you have of the transformation....and that transformation being "less than" "falling short" and now "semi-functional"..
along with the view that you feel all women want babies and are only "complete women" if they can bear children..

your question doesn't come off as a question to me.

[Teresa]

Kaitlyn,
As I said this was the impression I formed before joining the forum, but to some it is a relevant question. The other point was some believed they would fully transform to begin a new life despite counselling saying different .
Theses stories were shown sometime ago on UK tv and as I say I'm now aware of various shades of transition.
I also made the point about not all women wanting or needing children, as Becky said about not having any interest in becoming a father.

Dianne,
I have no problems with which label you prefer, we all know what it means , no offense was intended.

[Nigella]

I think all TS women have thought about bearing a child at some point or another. I believe it is a natural thought process for women. For some, myself included, its a none issue. In my case it was because of a late transition. For others it is a great burden to bear, knowing that you are a woman, and not being able to fulfil one of natures natural processes.

If some think that being a woman is defined by the ability to bear a child, they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

[ReineD]

If some think that being a woman is defined by the ability to bear a child, they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Exactly.

I was with a group of female friends last night (all but one are mothers) and I asked them what drove them to want kids. We are all in our 50s. Did they want to experience the physical sensation of pregnancy, childbirth, lactation, etc? I asked because these were not my motives. I just wanted to have a child to love and to raise. I wanted a family. My ex-husband wanted the same, in fact he was ready before I was (he is older). Anyway, without exception, they all said the same. Two of them didn't nurse their kids, they chose bottles. One of my friends adopted and didn't see any difference between herself and the other women. None of us could honestly say that we enjoyed pregnancy. We all prefer not being pregnant, so this indicates that pregnancy is a means to an end (raising a child), not the end goal. All of us could have done without the pain of childbirth. The one of us who did not have kids never wanted any. She was and still is deeply invested in her career.

Just to say, the goal was to form a family more than actually going through the process or at least this is true of the women I was with. And all their husbands, including my ex, wanted and love their kids just as much as their wives do.

[Rogina B]

In response to Reine's post...If you want to "make a family"..How you get there really doesn't matter...Proven daily around the globe by the LGT community members!

[ReineD]

I've read my post again and it occurred to me that it may have come off as insensitive.

To those of you who grieve not having been born with a woman's body, I just want to say that my intent was not to dismiss your feelings. It makes perfect sense that you would want to experience all the biological functions of someone with XX chromosomes. My point was rather that you can still experience the greatest gift of all, and this is the joy of raising and loving a child and having them need and love YOU (... until they are 16 when they learn how to drive and don't feel they need anyone :p).

[PretzelGirl]

I am not sure we all have had thought of bearing children. I don't recall any. My path was stuffing all of my thoughts and feelings until I was in my forties. Since I started exploring who I was that late, my thoughts were past the childbearing feelings. I even recall posts in the MTF forum a good 5 years ago about this subject and it didn't trigger any thoughts. I am very much a nurturer, but it is where I love coddling my grandkids or other's babies. Not one thought about bearing one myself.

That may make me the only lady in Utah that doesn't want another (that is a joke). :heehee:

[becky77]

Doesn't matter to you Rogina.

I get what you are saying Riene, I think we are mixing two separate issues here, I agree being a good parent has nothing to do with the biology. It's those whose chief concern is to have a family and plan ahead, they are most likely going to make better parents, than those who are driven by biological instinct. But recognize how powerful biological instinct can be.

What I find hard to grasp is how people are saying it makes no difference if you are the mother or father. I'm going through all this crap to transition, so I can be female and authentic, yet I should be comfortable being called Dad and playing the father figure? That makes no sense to me.
If I could be ok being a Dad, maybe I could also be ok continuing to be a man?

Being a father has many of the same social expectations of being a man.
Saying it works for the LGBT community is a senseless comment, LGBT have already come out as gay and are therefore free to engage in parenthood free of gender expectations.
I'm talking about the time before transition, when I was doing my best to fulfil the male role, at that time the idea of expanding the mess I was in to being a father and having a child was too much. I was already over compensating and failing as a man.

It's taken a long time to fight the demons to get to this point, had things been different and I had transitioned at a younger age, I would have considered adoption. My need to be the mother figure is as tangible as the need to be perceived as a woman.
This is all hindsight though, and feelings differ, Kaitlyn never even considered child bearing, were as Paula said she would rather die than be the Dad. The spectrum is probably as broad as the one to transition.

[stefan37]

I was born male that made bearing a child impossible. I didn't give a single thought to it. I did contribute and raise 2 kids. They are grown and I have no desire to have any more. I told my kids they could always call me dad. I am not their mother and never will be. My son took my transition very well and actually was helpful to both my ex and daughter. My daughter had a more difficult time accepting. Allowing her to call me dad has helped her feel more comfortable. Whenv addressing the kids or referring to me my ex refers to me as dad. After thirty years it's ingrained and I don't make a big deal about it.

[Bria]

Becky, I think that you are quite right to observe that the spectrum is very wide, with feeling ranging from no way would I want to be a parent, to the I don't feel complete with out it.

However, being a biological parent doesn't force one into a ridged mother/father role. Single parents seem to be able to span the divide (if there is one) and provide their kids with enough of both ends of the scale to raise normal kids. I think that as a parent that you need to assess your own strengths and weaknesses and seek to augment the weaknesses in some way, your SO, if you have one is usually the means, but there are other avenues.

For those that have a desire to be a parent, there is, of course, the option of adopting in addition to being a biological parent. All of that said, some people choose not to parent for a variety of reasons. My younger sister chose not to have children. I think that is a very private decision and I have never discussed with her to reasons.

Personally I have two biological kids and three by marriage (although not legally adopted) and I don't see a difference, they are all my kids!

Hugs, Bria

[Kaitlyn Michele]

if you hold your child in your arms when she/he is born, your entire life changes...everything you think you knew about yourself changes... its the most powerful emotion i have ever felt..

i cannot imagine even one moment where i don't live for them (one of the tragedies of transition is how some people make us feel like we are hurting our children..we are NOT hurting our children...we are role modeling for them to live their best quality of life no matter what the odds in my opinion)..

so if they want to call me dad...they can call me dad... i am their dad. They call me Kaitlyn alot too.... and sometimes they say "thats my dad, she's a girl"....

So Becky I hear you but you must also consider that you cannot know how you will feel about this unless you actually do it.
Also, if you did have a child, you'd be female to them right from the start. It would be a totally different situation

I don't know how i'd feel if i was still childless but looking to have kids...its very possible that i'd care deeply about being called mom too

[becky77]

Thank you for understanding Kaitlyn and I totally get what you are saying about holding your child.
I fully understand how that love would have no boundaries, I just couldn't have got to that point and I'm too old now to try.

Bria, didn't you recently say you didn't even know you was a CD till you turned 70?
Can you understand how GD has twisted my way of thinking? What I'm saying may not sound rational to you, but such is the impact all this Gender he'll has been, I wasn't able to see beyond my own pain.
I think this is one of those things only another TS can comprehend.
Everyone else takes it for granted.