Those of us who identify as gay?

[Chrissi]

From an earlier thread Boyfriend and dressing (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?226785-Boyfriend-and-dressing) some interesting questions were raised about those of us who identify as gay, or sexually & emotionally prefer men as our SO's. Along the way I felt and indeed indicated that I would start a new thread....

So who among us feels comfortable to post in here about your sexual identity...

me, when in guy mode, I identify as gay. I have a long time boyfriend we live together, and yes he knows I crossdress. But up until recently he didn't know the extent...now he does, and yes he is supporting. When in female mode, obviously I prefer men too...

So stop in if you identify as gay, and say hello.
Chrissi

[kimdl93]

Hi Chrissi. I don't identify as gay, but I thought I'd stop in and offer a greeting. I am glad that your partner is supportive. I wonder if the notion that gay men are generally not attracted to CDrs is valid or simply another gross over generalization.

[countrygirl]

Dressed as Amanda or Ben I also identify as gay preferring guys dressed as Amanda or as Ben.

[julia ann]

Not real sure where I fall on the LGBT scale. Dressed as a male I have no desire for men and little for women. TG or TS weather dress male or female is of interest. Dressed I have great great desire for men, women, TG/TS. I feel so much more sensual and confident in a dress rather than jeans and flannel!��

[Adriana Moretti]

I am really beginning to think I am gay....I know I'm bi-sexual for sure, but for the past year and a half I have been finding men and other cd's more sexually appealing than women, and I have only been with them in that time frame....not sure if I lost intrest in girls, or I find them needy and annoying....I cant tell, but I do know I lean heavy that way...but I still wouldnt kick the right girl out of bed. Until I figure it out, I'm just going to enjoy myself and go with what just feels right.

[Pat]

Adriana -- being bisexual (or pansexual) doesn't imply a constant interest in both sexes all the time. Most bi people of my acquaintance say they go through phases of attraction and I know that I do too. So I think you're bi-normal. ;)

[Dana44]

I'm BI, but in a heterosexual relationship. So, I go with the flow. If I was single then I would probably do both.

[weyburn]

Hello Chrissy

For most of my life I would never had thought I would be a crossdresser let alone being with a man
Now I am dressed as a woman almost 24 hours a day every day and prefer men
Recently I was with a woman but it just didn't happen for me but give me a man and Mmmm ...Mnnnn.......good
On the rare occaision I am out as a guy I certainly am gay and when dressed I certainly love playing the woman in as many aspects as possible
I don't have a boy friend per se but rhere are a couple of guys I see on a semi regular basis
Great pics by the way

[ReineD]

Hi Chrissi, I'm so happy that your bf turned out to be supportive! I remember an earlier thread when you hadn't tested the waters yet and weren't sure. Congratulations!



I wonder if the notion that gay men are generally not attracted to CDrs is valid or simply another gross over generalization.

My opinion (just based on common sense) is that the percentage of accepting gay men to total gay men in relationships with TGs is likely the same as the percentage of accepting hetero women to total hetero women who are in relationships with TGs (I'm using TG as a catch-all for everyone). Both these groups are attracted to men. Both these groups are comprised of people who have a wide spectrum of backgrounds, personalities, value systems, etc, and it is these things that determine whether someone will accept or not.

To go further (another conjecture), the level of acceptance may have to do with how a partner sees the TG. If they are open-minded and if they see him fundamentally as a male who dresses, then they still feel they are in a relationship with a male; this would not upset their beliefs about who they are in a relationship with. Issues occur when partners (gay men or hetero women), begin to feel that the TG does not want to be the sex they are attracted to. I think this is why so many partners are OK with the CDing and not transition. Things really get complicated when the partner wants to see the TG as a male (because that's who the partner is attracted to), but the TG does not want to be seen as a male. There begins a push-pull effect where the TG wants to present as a woman more than s/he feels the partner can bear and this creates an imbalance in the relationship and within each individual. :2c:

[AndreaCD1963]

From my early teens, I have been attracted to both males and females. However it wasn't until my early 40's that I truly accepted that I'm BI and that it is ok to be BI. Throughout the years I suppressed my attraction to other men, or had casual encounters when the urge was too strong. It was also in my early 40's that I accepted that I was a cross-dresser, and always have been. It took me quite a long time to be able to separate the two and realize that my sexual orientation and my gender presentation were completely separate and unrelated.

I'm currently in a heterosexual relationship with an absolutely awesome and totally accepting woman who accepted from day one that I was BI and a cross-dresser. I'm able to control my urges and desires to be with a man - I think that the fact that she knows they are there helps. She points out good looking men to me when we are out and about - and we both admire from afar. She also supports that I'm a cross-dresser - whenever we travel to the US, we BOTH can't wait to find a Dress-Barn :-)

[Alexis08]

I'm mostly attracted to men. but I'm not turned on by sex between two guys that look like guys, and I never watch gay porn.

Hmm.. maybe I'm transsexual? but I don't feel really uncomfortable in my own body.

[BenE]

Heyo, I have no real idea why i'm joining but...I guess i'd be considered happily bi.I tend to like men and women-though I do have to admit, I tend to be "dominant" with women and "submissive" with guys. Sometimes I get the feeling i'd rather just be...Softer all the time :/.
Also YAY for you Chrissi :D

[Jean 103]

Chrissi, hello and good for you

For ease of labeling I go with Bi, and as that implies I have been with both. For now I am only dating as Jean and only men, which so far have all been Gay. As for the girls I hangout with, I find them attractive but I prefer to have them as friends. They know I date men so that makes me one of the girls and for now that’s how I prefer it.

Just being Jean

[Glorialovesheels]

as a man I am attracted to women, but do have interest in transexuals... but when I cross dress I do have some feelings for men, but in a sensual way...if that makes sense

[Sissy_Michelle]

Chrissi,

Sexual identity ... Do I prefer guys or gals, do I see myself as gay? About two weeks ago I was having this conversation with a coworker that has surmised that I underdress. So we discussed at great length clothes, shops that I frequent, do I fully dress and so on. Although one of her topics was of my sexual preference while dressed... I wasn't sure how to answer her because I don't believe you can just switch on or off your sexual preference. You either have or haven't . If you have was the experience wonderful enough to try again or was it not what you thought and haven't looked back. So I discussed with her my feelings about this subject in regard to "do you look at guys and find them attractive only when dressed or all the time?" Well if I find a woman attractive and I am dressed why wouldn't she be attractive still...

This shouldn't be a question about sexual identity, more along the lines of sexual preference. I find both men and women attractive in their own way. But could only see myself with a woman. I have been with a guy on one occasion a long time ago, mostly touching and kissing. I was curious, he was attractive, (not to mention I was loaded on Jagermiester) it was a fun evening, when we woke up the next morning we laughed, showered, and went to breakfast. For fear and only fear of my job did I then realize what we did and how others could perceive us together. Sadly after breakfast we parted company and never spoke again... It wasn't like we were holding hands and sitting next to each other in the dining facility. But the thought of "perception" and what it could do really woke me up to look at everyone in a new light. Would I do it again? Possibly. Does that make me "gay" ? Like racism I see it as a label so I do not like being labeled. If anyone asks me if I am gay I tell them "yes I am Lesbian" when they ask me what race I tell them "American". When they ask religion I tell them "yes"...

Sorry for the rant Chrissi. I am happy for you and your boyfriend, that y'all are happy together. It is good to have support.

@--}----
Michelle

[CONSUELO]

Chrissi,
I am so pleased that your relationship is working so well. Long may it endure.

I had a boyfriend for a few years and he loved seeing me dressed. I used to find myself in relationships with both women and men but now, when cross dressed, I prefer to be with a man.

[withasmile]

Adriana, the girls are probably 'needy' and annoying because they sense you aren't really interested. On some level you aren't able to meet their needs. So they ramp up behaviors that only serve to push you away. It's easier to want to do things others want when you want to and enjoy pleasing them. You might be able to enjoy them in a shallow sort of way, and even be turned on - but doubt from what you say a relationship is doable. Just my own opinion.

[Kristy 56]

I consider myself heterosexual,but when all dressed and dolled up maybe a little bi-curious. i've only felt like this in the last year or so. :)

[Chrissi]

Thanks girls for the responses, and keep them coming.

I am curious about how some of you feel that you have changed over the years. I wonder if upbringing and social and familial backgrounds had anything to do with that. For me, I knew I liked to try on girl's clothing from an early age. I knew I was gay when I was 16 (I suspected it before that, but for other reasons...didn't put a label on it) I came out to myself as gay, in my 20s and finally to pretty much everyone in my 30s. These days, I am openly gay and proud to be so.

What's odd, is that I never really ever felt the need to "come out" as a crossdresser/transgender until more recently. Several people knew I crossdressed for many years (sister, boyfriend and a couple other friends) just not the extent of my need to do so. So I never ever felt the dichotomy of personality (dysphoria) that some of us experience. I do find my desire to suppress my feminine side to be rapidly disappearing of late.

For those of you, who find yourselves attracted to men...is it because you feel you are a straight woman? I am a bit curious about that too

thanks all,
Chrissi

[PaulaQ]

For those of you, who find yourselves attracted to men...is it because you feel you are a straight woman? I am a bit curious about that too


Well, I'd like to be a straight woman - that's really what I had hoped I was. However, I am apparently bisexual. I pass as a straight woman pretty well though, which is just all sorts of messed up, I think.

In my prior life, I tried to appear to be a straight man. It's interesting to note my own internalized homophobia / biphobia. It's taken a while to figure this all out about myself.

My history does make a lot more sense now. I started out pining for guys, but being with women. Now I'm with a guy, and pining for women. What a mess!

[Satwiwa]

i would nowadays identify as Bisexual, I realize now that I've always been Bi, even though I tried for years to avoid acknowledging that fact. something to do with Friends & family what they would say about it, silly now that I look back at it.
I am attracted to both Men and women, though nowadays I tend to be more into Men. and my going in feminine mode has little bearing on how I feel. I have been with Men & Women both as my Male self and as a Girl... some of them like me as one or the other, but rarely as both.. except my Dear Friend Sandy, Sandy will invite either Me or my Female side over. She enjoys me either way, so that is very nice.
I have noticed that a few Men got upset when they find out I Crossdress, but most seem to accept - even if they do not want to be with me in Female Mode.

[Alice Torn]

I have always had sexual hangups,all my life.For many years, i was afraid of girls, and always got rejected. Later, i finally got to dating women , in my late 20's and 30's, but never could keep a relationship going.I have always been a virgin, too, not "going all the way" with a lady. i kind of felt that the male sexual desire was predatory, and women were terrified of it, too. Now, when i get all dolled up, i do fantasize of being a lady with a gentleman, and i have met three different men over the years, but set limits with them, no allowing penetration sex. I am attracted to only a few types of women, and very little attraction for any man. I am kind of asexual, but when all dressed, tend to desire to model and dance for a gentleman. I guess i am asexual Bi.

[Rogina B]

I have always been "pansexual" since the age of 14 in that I had to like who I was with,not the gender they were..I am married with a teenage daughter,but my feelings remain the same. I like some men and some women...

[Sophie Hogletta]

Definitely not 'gay'. As that is not my identity normally. However, when dressed that is my overwhelming slant. And as I am small and slim, and favour tall muscular blokes then I would like to think that is self-identifying as a straight woman. But as everyone knows it is not that simple. At the moment I am kind of sick of the merry go round of being male, with women, dressing confusion etc. So looking to settle and find an appropriate big bloke to settle with for a while. I am not sure if that makes me gay or not, but I don't think so as it is so tied up with self-identity, and the whole thing will be as self-identification as a woman, which might make me TS, which is another story all together, and potentially another chapter. :-)

[lesli]

in drab guy mode, i am straight heterosexual, but when i dress my persona changes completely and i am not looking at women sexually then... but i do admire their attire and makeup!

[kkaye]

Without being an authority on being Gay. Being attracted to other men or feeling a certain way is the difference between night and day. Having sex with another man is a big difference between gay feelings. I had attractions towards other males all my life. I acted on it and in my denial of being gay, I just considered it passing acts because in large part, I first and foremost was into girls like any average guy until, I faced the reality. No straight man pitches are catches from the other. I have been married, fathered children and lived years without acting on my attractions and did not consider myself gay or bi.
But then came the reality. Straight men do not do other men. A man is not gay because of attractions. It is acting on it. For example. Is a man a cross dresser because he like the way women clothes look and would like to try it. Or does he become a cross dresser when he start wearing women clothes.

[TeriJean72]

I'm most definitely BI. Have been since my early teens. Fortunately this is one aspect of my relationship with my wife (GG), that is not a problem, she has no issues with this, and we have been known to be socially friendly with other people (in certain environments). Ironically enough, she has concerns and fears about the whole CD thing..

[Sandie70]

I've commented on this on another thread, but for me, there is an odd dynamic taking place. I identify as being bi-sexual, but I find myself attracted in different ways to different genders. I am attracted both emotionally and sexually to women, but only sexually with men. I suppose if I started living more and more as a woman I might find myself changing... but I can only guess. From what I read here and on other websites it is quite obvious that what motivates us to crossdress is different for each of us and the sexual aspect of it seems to be all over the map. I suppose it boils down to "whatever fits your fancy."

[darci17]

I've always liked both. Just depends on what I see, how they move, how they smell and who they are.

[Bandie]

I see myself as bi

[missynicole]

I am sort of like Julia Ann in that when in normal male mode I honestly have stopped thinking about sex pretty much. However when dressed as Missy Nicole, which is becoming more often, I definitely prefer a man. It feels so natural thinking about wanting to be with him when dressed. Now to find him :)

[Rachel1225]

This has been a issue with me for some time. All my life at any given point there has always been a man that I was attracted to. I could see myself being with him as a female. To date I've never been with another man, I've tried toys to experiment with, and that was fine it felt natural . Just like wearing a dress does.
But after going to gay forums and exploring , I personally found myself turned off when guys started flirting with me.
Maybe it's just because I wasn't attracted to them, I'm not sure what I would do if one of the guys I am attracted to was to show interest .

[Tracii G]

You can place me in the gay category thank you.
Women are awesome don't get me wrong but having a Mr right would be nice.

[CherylFlint]

While in drab, I’m a guy 100% so I like girls, but when dressed as Cheryl I like the boys.

[MonicaMarie]

I used to identify as straight, but after sorting out many aspects of my life, I began to identify as gay, though this came late for me - around the age of 40. When I'm in drab, I see myself as a gay male, but en femme I'm a straight woman. My ever-evolving understanding of my identity is currently that I am transgendered, but not at the point where I'm ready to begin transitioning. I'm in therapy right now trying to move forward, but I'm taking it very slowly.

[Sophie Hogletta]

Thread is interesting. I have been through many theories myself but now I would love to be dressed as a girl with a man, and I am not sure if that is gay or not. As I would identify as a girl.

I must check this out. :battingeyelashes: Definitely I will do this.

[gailbridges]

I'm BI, but in a heterosexual relationship. So, I go with the flow. If I was single then I would probably do both.

Word. In male mode, guys hold no interest for me, but as Gail, they are getting my attention online. I'll let you know more if and when I get out of the closet.

[Pat]

There's a theory, that's probably true for some people, that if you have no previous attraction to men and you suddenly develop an attraction to the idea of being with a man when you're dressed, that you're objectifying the man and treating him as an accessory to your CDism. That is, you see a hot girl in ankle strap shoes, you want ankle strap shoes -- you see her having sex with a guy and you want a guy to have sex with. Don't be offended; neither I nor the people who came up with this idea are trying to demean your desires, but same sex attraction that doesn't stay with you when you're not dressed is probably not true attraction. If you're the exception, fine.

[Tracii G]

Good points Jennie.
Sexual preference doesn't change because of the clothes.

[franlee]

Sexual preference doesn't change because of the clothes.

This is so simple but so on target. I think it is so obvious that we all look over it!

[Sophie Hogletta]

This is so simple but so on target. I think it is so obvious that we all look over it!

It's a very good point. I am still attracted to girls, but I took a decision a while ago to concentrate sex on being a girl, and that led me to guys. No regrets. Nothing is better than a nice snuggle with a glass of wine watching a film. And anyway, I'm probably trans anyway. Being single I have all the time to explore and can spend weekends dressed up which is cool. When you spend that kind of time in a female mode you start to think more like that, and nothing beats waking up on a Sunday morning in lingerie next to a nice large guy. :battingeyelashes::battingeyelashes: If you are girly inclined like me. :):):battingeyelashes:

[Sammy777]

Thanks girls for the responses, and keep them coming.
Here is a mouthful for you :D

"Homo-Flexible Lesbian identifying Pan Romantic Demisexual".
Or "Bisexual" for short :battingeyelashes:



There's a theory, that's probably true for some people, that if you have no previous attraction to men and you suddenly develop an attraction to the idea of being with a man when you're dressed, that you're objectifying the man and treating him as an accessory to your CDism. That is, you see a hot girl in ankle strap shoes, you want ankle strap shoes -- you see her having sex with a guy and you want a guy to have sex with. Don't be offended; neither I nor the people who came up with this idea are trying to demean your desires, but same sex attraction that doesn't stay with you when you're not dressed is probably not true attraction. If you're the exception, fine.

Good points Jennie.
Sexual preference doesn't change because of the clothes.

:cheer: :cheer: :D BRAVO! :D :cheer: :cheer:

[Sandie70]

Sophie, it looks like you're on a road of discovery that can be quite satisfying... and confusing, all at the same time. I am bi, but when in drab I have no emotional attraction to men - it's strictly sexual. However, when I'm dressed I seem to have a different feeling toward men as my feminine side takes over. I want more than just the physical. As a woman, everything changes - sex becomes an adjunct to something deeper and more satisfying. One of the wonderful mysteries of life.

[becky77]

There's a theory, that's probably true for some people, that if you have no previous attraction to men and you suddenly develop an attraction to the idea of being with a man when you're dressed, that you're objectifying the man and treating him as an accessory to your CDism. That is, you see a hot girl in ankle strap shoes, you want ankle strap shoes -- you see her having sex with a guy and you want a guy to have sex with. Don't be offended; neither I nor the people who came up with this idea are trying to demean your desires, but same sex attraction that doesn't stay with you when you're not dressed is probably not true attraction. If you're the exception, fine.

That makes a lot of sense, however if a CDer takes the fantasy further and sleeps with a man, and they are fundamentally straight. Wouldn't that experience be a disaster?

I do know of one person that did this and really regretted it, actually they were sickened by it.

If that theory held true there should be a fair number on here that have regrets?

[Rachel1225]

Update..... Toys.... Are no where near the real thing!! Had my first encounter with another CD last night... And it was amazing !!

[Jillian Faith]

There's a theory, that's probably true for some people, that if you have no previous attraction to men and you suddenly develop an attraction to the idea of being with a man when you're dressed, that you're objectifying the man and treating him as an accessory to your CDism. That is, you see a hot girl in ankle strap shoes, you want ankle strap shoes -- you see her having sex with a guy and you want a guy to have sex with. Don't be offended; neither I nor the people who came up with this idea are trying to demean your desires, but same sex attraction that doesn't stay with you when you're not dressed is probably not true attraction. If you're the exception, fine.

Jennie I think this rings true for a lot of CDs

[Chrissi]

Here is a mouthful for you :D

"Homo-Flexible Lesbian identifying Pan Romantic Demisexual". :battingeyelashes:


:cheer: :cheer: :D BRAVO! :D :cheer: :cheer:


I can spell antidisestablishmentarianism too! hugs
Chrissi

[Chrissi]

Sophie, it looks like you're on a road of discovery that can be quite satisfying... and confusing, all at the same time. I am bi, but when in drab I have no emotional attraction to men - it's strictly sexual. However, when I'm dressed I seem to have a different feeling toward men as my feminine side takes over. I want more than just the physical. As a woman, everything changes - sex becomes an adjunct to something deeper and more satisfying. One of the wonderful mysteries of life.

For me the emotional, romantic, sexual attractions are all men, always have been, regardless of how I present. However, the intellectual and sometimes emotional interests are with women. Meaning, I am friends with more women than gay guys. At work, I associate with the women, not the men.

But at the end of the day, regardless of what happened, I want to snuggle up with a big strong hairy guy, and feel his scruffy beard and tactile hands and his smell and voice and well you get the idea...


While in drab, I’m a guy 100% [so] and I like girls, but when dressed as Cheryl I like the boys.

There, Cheryl, I fixed that for you...

[Sammy777]

I can spell antidisestablishmentarianism too! hugs
Chrissi

:lol2: That's a lot of letters :D

I usually reserve the "long version" for people in the know, for the general populous who can barely grasp Straight, Bi, Gay/Les I try to keep it simple with Bisexual (it cuts down on the gender vs sexuality confusion), even though I more closely identify with Lesbian*.

*(And for those of you who are wondering, yes you can "be with" someone of the "opposite sex" and still identify as Gay or Lesbian.)

[Sammy777]

So I wonder does this mean that I am becoming to realize that when dressed that I am bi? or is it the euphoria of the sexual feelings that come with getting dressed up when I can?

Like many have said before.........
What you wear has no effect on your sexuality.

Do you:
A] Find men attractive on a normal daily basis?
B] Only find men attractive when dressed, or "feeling fem"?

If you answered A - Congrats, you are most likely Bisexual, or at least seriously Hetero-Flexible ("Straight" but willing to go that way)

If you answered B - Then no, you are not Bisexual nor Hetero-Flexible.
You are simply a straight guy who enjoys (maybe a bit too much) the fantasy of being a straight girl (while "dressed") who is attracted to guys.


<Rant> (this is not directed at you Stephanie A, but to anybody who happens to fit the bill)

Quite frankly I am seriously sick and tired of hearing tales of "weekend bisexuals" who are in reality straight men, who are happy being straight men, who have NO - ZERO attraction to other men in their daily Male lives.
(Except of course when they are *giggles* wearing a pair of *#^%$ panties.)

It is stuff like this that is another reason why [REAL] Bisexuals are thought of as myths, like unicorns.

Why Straight, (But mostly) Gay and Lesbian people want nothing to with Bisexuals because we are seen as jokes, closeted Gay/Lesbians who are afraid to come out, untrustworthy, will (and want to) have sex with anybody.
Or more simply are "greedy" or "can't decide" who they like.

I am Bisexual, in every sense of the word, but I "identify" as Lesbian because:
1) I like both, but have a preference towards other women, but more importantly
2) There are plenty of Lesbians who will not touch a "Bi" girl (trans or not) with a ten foot pole.
Mostly due to the above reasons.

So I will leave you with the picture below. </Rant>


245972


PS: Chrissi, I do apologize for "going off" in what has other wise been a very nice (if sometimes fanciful) thread. :D

[Barbara Dugan]

I am surprised that I haven't participated on this thread...the reason is I've been busy having a great time with my boyfriend:heehee:

[Chrissi]

love you Barbara! How is Mr. Wonderful anyway?

[Barbara Dugan]

love you Barbara! How is Mr. Wonderful anyway?

Doing great also having a great time with me too!! we just finished our Memorial Day weekend with a Cook Off with friends and my family:)

[PaulaQ]

Why Straight, (But mostly) Gay and Lesbian people want nothing to with Bisexuals because we are seen as jokes, closeted Gay/Lesbians who are afraid to come out, untrustworthy, will (and want to) have sex with anybody.
Or more simply are "greedy" or "can't decide" who they like.

I am Bisexual, in every sense of the word, but I "identify" as Lesbian because:
1) I like both, but have a preference towards other women, but more importantly
2) There are plenty of Lesbians who will not touch a "Bi" girl (trans or not) with a ten foot pole.
Mostly due to the above reasons.



It's funny, I never really had a bad attitude about bisexual people until I spent time in the LGBT community.

I think another reason we aren't trusted in the gay and lesbian community is that by and large, the big gay organizations and their leadership are busy promoting the notion that:

"Two Mommies = Two Daddy's = A Mom and a Dad."

That is, they've decided to promote marriage equality, and pinkwashing the gay community into sort of a heteronormative / cisnormative mold.

This makes bisexuals a big problem - unless of course, you are one of the "good ones" who stick to a straight or a gay relationship. So you better "pass" as gay or straight, or they don't want to talk about you. Not at all. Also, if you are making the argument "BEING GAY IS NOT A CHOICE!!!!!!!!" then having someone who apparently does have a choice of appearing to be gay or straight is problematical. (Of course being bisexual isn't a choice at all - I'd rather be anything but this, in fact.)

They spent $300M on this one issue in this country alone last year. (As compared to $5M that was spent for all trans advocacy, education, and lobbying.) By the way - if you complain about such a disparity, most gay or lesbian people I know will be happy to rationalize away the vital importance of marriage equality to all of us, while trivializing our concerns.

So that leaves people like you "passing" as lesbian, and people like me "passing" as straight. (I am really just about 50/50 - but given that, it's just a whole lot easier to be with a guy. Unfortunately for me, I'm not one of the good ones - it's just not going to be possible to shoehorn me into anything like a heteronormative relationship. (Even the recast gay version from marriage equality.) Want me to promise to only be with my spouse, and to foreswear all others? Not going to happen. If I'm with a guy, I can promise to not be with another guy, or if I did end up with a woman as my primary relationship, I'd swear off other girls. I really hope that doesn't happen. I don't like dealing with the crap associated with lesbian relationships. Maybe if I really identified well as a lesbian, if I loved the community, if I felt at home, a real kinship around the gay and lesbian community I'd go for that. But I just do not. Don't get me wrong, I like lots of gay and lesbian folks I know, I really do. I live in the heart of the Dallas Gay community. It's been a good place for me to transition. But they just aren't my peeps.

I'll go out and celebrate marriage equality when it happens here in the US. But I'll know it's a non-event for me, and that the focus on this event pushes people like me back further into the closet. At least all things trans are becoming marketable now, and those funding machines are going to need a good cause to keep drumming up support for. Hey, maybe as trans people we'll finally get a few percent of the funding they collect, huh? That'll be worthy of a celebration, right?

So I'm queer. (There's more stuff than wanting to have sex with both a man and a woman going on. I'm really just not straight.)

I can pass pretty well for straight though, at least assuming my boyfriend can continue to deal with me and my weirdness. I don't see myself as living fulltime with a woman ever again. Been there, done that, and uh, no thanks. Now if only I weren't so attracted to women still, life would be really simple. Anyway, I already know I'm exactly what people don't want to hear about when you say the word "bisexual."

Anyway, welcome to not having a place at the table, I guess.

[Sammy777]

If I'm with a guy, I can promise to not be with another guy,
if I did end up with a woman as my primary relationship, I'd swear off other girls.

THAT is it right there! And why Bisexuals have the bad name we do.
I hate to say it, but in those two statements you sound like the poster child for all things bad about Bisexuals.

We can't be trusted.
We will (sooner or later) run off with someone of the opposite gender of our current partner because we simply "can't decide".
We are just fundamentally incapable of being faithful or staying in a monogamous relationship for any length of time.

Your statements above are the holy grail of reasons why (Most) Gay men and Lesbian women avoid Bisexuals like the plague.

And as far as LGBT rights and advancements go, its simple, first to get axed "For the greater good" is the T.
The second is the B. Because Bisexuals muck up the works. "Real" bisexuals are a myth and don't really exist anyways. :(

[PaulaQ]

THAT is it right there! And why Bisexuals have the bad name we do.
I hate to say it, but in those two statements you sound like the poster child for all things bad about Bisexuals.

We can't be trusted.
We will (sooner or later) run off with someone of the opposite gender of our current partner because we simply "can't decide".
We are just fundamentally incapable of being faithful or staying in a monogamous relationship for any length of time.

Your statements above are the holy grail of reasons why (Most) Gay men and Lesbian women avoid Bisexuals like the plague.


I am the poster child for everything that is perceived as wrong with bisexuals. I hate it, and I'm having a very hard time liking myself overmuch because of these feelings I have. ****, I talk about these feelings with my therapist and she isn't very sympathetic.

Why does it have to be wrong to be what I am? I didn't choose this, frankly it sucks.

Why is this different than straight people hating gays or lesbians because they are different?

I think you are wrong though - trans people are marketable now, so you'll see BigGayInc start to fundraiser on our behalf. We won't get much of the money, but we'll be included. The local equality campaigns here in Texas mostly don't mention bisexuals anymore, but they do mention trans.

Anyway, I'm not sure if you are saying that I shouldn't feel as I do, or that I'm a horrible person. I certainly don't claim to speak for anyone who's bisexual other than myself. It's certainly difficult to accept that my sexual orientation is considered evil by gay and straight people alike.

I guess I have no right to be what I am, because I make others look bad? I should just hide it, right? That's what the world seems to be telling me.

Does any of that really seem right to you?

[becky77]

Hi Paula

Your statement reads as "If I'm with a guy I won't touch other guys, but I'm liable to cheat with another women" and visa versa.
I'm thinking that's not how you meant it?
But it comes across that you're untrustworthy.

Who wants to be in a relationship with someone, that is always looking for something better?
Whatever way I go I'm loyal, I hate cheaters as they usually delude themselves into finding reasons why it's ok.

I have little experience with Bisexual people, but if the above was a common trait, it's understandable people would be wary.
I suspect like most things in life it's the bad apples that tar everyone else. That happens in everything, you can't generalise.

[Chrissi]

Good points Jennie.
Sexual preference doesn't change because of the clothes.

Absolutely Tracii, and this is what, I guess, I am finding most curious. If anything, I get more in the mood when dressed, especially when dressed nice, and so far no complaints from the beneficiary ;)

[PaulaQ]

Your statement reads as "If I'm with a guy I won't touch other guys, but I'm liable to cheat with another women" and visa versa.
I'm thinking that's not how you meant it?

It depends on your definition of cheating. By societal norms, I am untrustworthy, deceitful, and evil.

I have disclosed these apparent tendencies of mine to my partner. I have told them that well before I would ever act on them, I would discuss this with them, and negotiate what is tolerable to them. I would discuss who it would be, what I might do, etc. at whatever level of detail he'd want, based on his desire for disclosure, and with the utmost attempt at respect for all involved. I will not sneak around. He'll know, and whoever I'm with will know my situation in turn. I won't announce this all to the rest of the world, but everyone involved will know in advance. At any time, my boyfriend, or the other woman, can end the relationship with me.

I'm trying to be ethical about this. I am fully aware I may NEVER find long term relationships that would agree to such terms. If so, so be it.


But it comes across that you're untrustworthy.

Who wants to be in a relationship with someone, that is always looking for something better?
Whatever way I go I'm loyal, I hate cheaters as they usually delude themselves into finding reasons why it's ok

I'm not looking for "something better." I love my boyfriend. He's all the man I need or want. I don't want another guy. Unfortunately, he's not a woman, and it appears I need both.

When I was with women, I pined away at male friends, longing to be more than friends. I never acted on it, nor hinted about it. But it sucked for me, and it wasn’t honest nor fair to anyone else, either my male friends, my wife, etc. I’d assumed, after I started transition and realized that I had a very strong attraction to men that I had simply been a straight girl, unable to bring myself to be with a gay man. I didn't feel like a gay man, after all. On top of that, I hated having sex as a man.

Unfortunately, a couple of weeks ago, I realized that as happy as I am with my boyfriend, I am very attracted to, and was forming a crush on a female friend of mine. I had been denying these feelings for a while, trying to pretend to myself that I was super-duper-straight-girl. Well, I'm just not.

I am completely convinced based on my past history, that were I to unceremoniously dump my boyfriend (I don't want to do that - I love him and our sex life), and take up with this woman, six months from now, I'd be staring at men, wanting something with a guy. Looking back at my past, this all makes sense now, these feelings, and they aren't going away. Indeed, if anything, since transition, they are much, much stronger. If I have to totally suppress them, I am going to be miserable, and I've gone through too much to live my life being miserable. I'd rather be alone than that.

This isn't going to go away, it is something I'm going to have to deal with, and suppressing it, the strategy I've used for my prior life, hasn't worked well for anyone, really. So I'm not going to try to do the same things I've done in the past. Because I know where that goes.

If you feel this is horrible, immoral, unethical, or whatever you feel - I'm not surprised. I'm having a fairly difficult time reconciling these feelings myself - but I'm not going to deny they exist any longer. The only thing I can think of doing is simply being upfront with everyone about who and what I am. If that means I experience "serial monogamy" - having relationships for a few months with a man, breaking it off, and then with a woman, that's how it goes. Maybe it just means I'm alone most of the time - I'm not "all that." I have no illusions about this.

Other possibilities, assuming my boyfriend and I can't find a way to navigate this would be for me to be the third person in a M/F triad - a poly relationship. If my boyfriend and I can manage this, I'd hope to find a woman like myself who doesn't want a fulltime relationship with another woman. This may be a little hard to find - I know lots of women like this in the trans community. They are married to their pre-transition spouses. The relationship lives on, but there is no sex. None. Because of my position in the community as part of the leadership of an outreach organization, I don't feel I can ethically seek such relationships. In fact, I'd eschew them, even if offered, because I end up being a mentor / sounding board / counselor / friend for many in the community, and the resulting relationship is unlikely to be particularly healthy for either of us. So it may mean I simply don't find anyone else to be with, and my boyfriend gets a lucky break. I'd look instead in the kink / poly community locally. This overlaps with the trans community somewhat, but I'd be more likely to find someone receptive. (I have some trepidation about this - my first contacts with the kink community haven't been pleasant, which is really unfortunate. Hopefully I've just had poor luck so far.) The big problem with those two, I fear, is the "no men" stipulation I have. For the time being, though, I'm doing nothing. It'll be a while before I do.


I have little experience with Bisexual people, but if the above was a common trait, it's understandable people would be wary.
I suspect like most things in life it's the bad apples that tar everyone else. That happens in everything, you can't generalise.

I believe most bisexual people are capable of being in a monogamous relationship with a single person. If they fall in love with someone of the opposite gender, they may well identify as straight. If they fall in love with someone of the same gender, they often identify gay or lesbian. Most of the bisexual people I've talked with are like this.

I do know one other bisexual person who has both a boyfriend, and a girlfriend. Both know it, and both are OK with it, I suppose. (I don't know their partners.) They are much younger than I am, so that may be a really critical difference.

As I said, apparently, I'm one of the bad apples. If it makes you feel any better - I don't much like this. I'm also not willing to live in denial about who and what I am. This kills me, because I really want to conform to social norms. You have no idea how important this is to me. However, I simply do not totally conform. I may be all girl in terms of gender identity, and expression, but I'm viewed as a freak in terms of my sexual orientation, apparently.

I will just say again, because I want to emphasize this, that I don't intend to sneak around on anyone, cheat, or do anything that I don't thoroughly discuss with my partner well in advance of actually doing anything. Everyone involved will understand what the deal is, and if anyone is uncomfortable with that, they shouldn't have a relationship with me. I intend to be completely upfront about that.

If you still wish to judge me as somehow lacking in character, then that is your prerogative. I suspect that a great many people will, and unlike being trans, I don't intend to just tell everyone I know about all this. But it is clear to me that people like me have no place at the table in gay rights - I barely have a spot as a trans woman. Even if I was willing to put up with this - I'm pretty brazen, after all - I have to consider whoever else I'm with. Being in the closet, to some extent, may be necessary, as much as I think that freaking sucks.

[hope springs]

[COLOR="#800080"]Like many have said before.........
What you wear has no effect on your sexuality.
<Rant> (this is not directed at you Stephanie A, but to anybody who happens to fit the bill)

Quite frankly I am seriously sick and tired of hearing tales of "weekend bisexuals" who are in reality straight men, who are happy being straight men, who have NO - ZERO attraction to other men in their daily Male lives.
(Except of course when they are *giggles* wearing a pair of *#^%$ panties.)

It is stuff like this that is another reason why [REAL] Bisexuals are thought of as myths, like unicorns.


Sammy, I'm one of those weekend bisexuals you loathe. My preferences are changed by my attire. I make no apologies for it. Be sick and tired. However, one thing I won't do is announce to anyone I'm bi. Nor would I attempt to "fit in" at a gay bar or the LGBT community as a whole. I support them, but never will lay claim to fall under their umbrella. Perhaps I am in the closet and am a true bisexual. But so long as I'm in the closet I'm not planting my flag where it can do material harm to someone is a "true" bisexual. For now it's a fantasy, even if indulged doesn't make bisexual, just curious. To all you other gurls who lean toward men when dresses, don't muck up the pot. As Sammy said, if your not attracted to men while presenting as a guy then your not bi. But I'll indulge the fantasy as often as I like. Without any labels

[mechamoose]

I'm very much into guys, at the same time I'm in a very committed M-F relationship.

My girl is a big-ol-bear with an identity problem. She is genetically female, but has NO idea how to be a girl amongst other girls. In a wine-sipping bridal shower, she feels as out of place as I do at a football game.

I guess I would just say that your question isn't that simple.

I find males HOT. I also find 'generous' women HOT.

I also feel a bit alienated by fun group of horny males who have little to no understanding of emotional connection. HUNGG.. Yah, you are SUPER cute, but will you cook me breakfast or go out for coffee tomorrow? Will you ask after the conversation we had last night?

It is about 'gender interaction' more than 'sexual identity' (and now all my old friends come after me with sticks), but isn't it more about how the two of YOU interact?

I have had very failed bed sessions with pretty women who identified as Lesbians, even though they were hot and cool. I have had 'floppy' sessions with super hot guys because I didn't have that *link*.

That *link* is (to me) the heart of it.

If you don't have that link, nothing else *CAN* happen. I don't care what you say your sexual identity is.

- MM


Sammy, I'm one of those weekend bisexuals you loathe. My preferences are changed by my attire. I make no apologies for it. Be sick and tired. However, one thing I won't do is announce to anyone I'm bi. Nor would I attempt to "fit in" at a gay bar or the LGBT community as a whole.


Gay bars, especially gay bear bars, make me sad.

I *so* wanna dive in there, but I can't do that without throwing aside years of promises.

"Bi", doesn't mean the same thing is "promiscuous". A lot of people get hung up at that specific point.

I may *LOVE* chasing down a fit, furry boy.. but that doesn't mean I'm going to cheat on my wife for that.

How is that different than a Het couple who foregoes people *they* don't find attractive?

HOW is it **ANY** different? Is it about being attracted or about being faithful??

Honest to Goddess, that has been my #1 bitch with any of our other classes. HOW and WHY does that matter? Did you make a promise or not??

- MM

I know I'm chaining posts here. I didn't really see another way of responding based on when I saw them.

- MM

[Lorileah]

I know I'm chaining posts here. I didn't really see another way of responding based on when I saw them.

- MM


Really? see the little quotation icon in the corner? also see the "edit post"? both let you respond and not multipost.

Now, I didn't realize there was so much wrong with me. In my world, you love who you love and it doesn't matter the parts. Also human nature (not societal) is directed toward sex in any manner (watch primates, sex is sex with anyone). So here I am, totally going to be hated by every gay, lesbian, straight person in the world because I an bi, poly, sub? (PS as an aside I still contend if you gots the boy parts and you use them to insert into someone with the girl parts, you aren't lesbian, you are a man having sex with a woman. To be a lesbian, the boy parts don't get used at all...sort of by definition).

I do agree I do not understand people who claim heterosexuality but look for a man when they are dressed (See above...that would be like gay sex...two boy parts..right?) Nothing wrong with being bi, in fact I think it is normal human sexual behavior. I have never had a gay man turn me down because I was bi. Lesbians, OTOH have rules...or say they do.

Being bi doesn't mean you are promiscuous. Being poly doesn't mean that either. If your mores say you can sleep with one of each and your partner(s) don't mind, then it's all good. If you believe in exclusivity (and that is a good thing for health reasons) then be exclusive. For me, jealousy is not a part of my relationship as long as honesty is.

Do (did) I switch when dressed, no. I liked who I liked no matter what the wrapper. Seems silly to do that since, in all probability, you will somewhere along the line be naked. (then it is gay sex again...right? See "boy-boy parts") If you imagine you are a pickle during sex doesn't mean you are vegetarian.

Paula may very well be true to her boyfriend while seeking and/or getting a woman. Maybe that's their rules. I know poly groups who actively interchange within their own community as long as they remain honest and safe. Everyone is happy. It doesn't hurt me in any manner. I am part of a poly family and while I am exclusive with one person, they in turn are poly with others in our "family". (and before you ask, yes I have swapped in the family on certain functions but always with my primary)

What you call yourself or what you think of yourself is between you and yourself. I do believe though the majority of CDs who think about being with a man when dressed would back out quickly IF it were to come true

See you can add stuff with edit :)

[becky77]

Paula I'm not judging, I don't know enough about being bisexual to understand.

Purely from my point of view, if I was with a guy that made it known he may well need another guy to satisfy his needs, he can take a walk. But he can also walk if he wants to stray with another woman.
I don't share.

Perhaps Bisexuals biggest failings are being too honest?
There are loads of people that are cheaters, (not that I'm calling you a cheater), who don't start their relationships with "Well I probably will need another woman to fulfil my appetites at some point".

How many Trans people are cheating on their spouse because "I have sex with other men because I can't tell my wife I CD".
What's the difference?
Intention is the same, you are just open about it and not lying to someone.

Who's the bad apple here?

[PaulaQ]

"Bi", doesn't mean the same thing is "promiscuous". A lot of people get hung up at that specific point.

I may *LOVE* chasing down a fit, furry boy.. but that doesn't mean I'm going to cheat on my wife for that.

How is that different than a Het couple who foregoes people *they* don't find attractive?

HOW is it **ANY** different? Is it about being attracted or about being faithful??


A lot of those heteronormative people are really freaking miserable too. They cheat. They have a super high divorce rate. They do all manner of unethical things. I would argue that the normal relationships between men and women fail pretty hard a lot of the time. But that's not my deal - I don't care. I am pretty sure I don't need to be with a bunch of random men or women. I am apparently a promiscuous person. I like sex - a lot. I think I scared my boyfriend a little the first time we went out. (He got over it in a New York minute, however - best deal ever, cheap date, classy woman, pretty much sure thing with sex.)

I'm really tired of feeling horrible about myself about this. I won't cheat on anyone I'm with. I won't. I'd rather break it off and be alone than do that. Anyway, yes, I understand the world thinks I'm terrible. I get it. I know you don't think I am horrible - we've talked too much. I feel, really, really, really bad about myself though. I really dislike these feelings.


There are loads of people that are cheaters, (not that I'm calling you a cheater), who don't start their relationships with "Well I probably will need another woman to fulfil my appetites at some point".

There are loads of people that are cheaters, (not that I'm calling you a cheater), who don't start their relationships with "Well I probably will need another woman to fulfil my appetites at some point".

I appreciate that you aren't judging me, thanks becky77. I really can't tell you whether or not most bisexual people feel as I do. Let's be generous though, and assume that they do not feel that way, or at least find ways to be involved with only one partner.

No, I suspect most people don't have the conversations I've had with my boyfriend. For the reasons why, see the first statement I quoted. BTW, my boyfriend doesn't really understand that it wouldn't bother me overmuch if he had another girlfriend. (I'd say another guy, as well, I wouldn't care about that, but there's no way in hell he'd do that - he is the straightest person I've ever met.) It'd be better if she was in a relationship with both of us. It'd be tough if he dumped me, or totally ignored me for someone else. It'd be tough if he wasn't upfront with me about it - and I found out about it without it being disclosed. I'd probably break up with him under those circumstances. He doesn't believe that I would be OK with this, however. I mean, who am I to demand something from him I can't give myself?

Anyway, most people are going to judge me about that. Straight, gay, lesbian, whatever. Maybe the asexual folks will cut me some slack while the enjoy knowing perhaps the only person on earth who envies them sometimes... I don't know if this is clear from what I'm writing - but I'm really miserable about all of this. It's not that I think I'm super-cool and deserve all these partners. Actually, I'd like nothing better than to just be a simple little straight girl. Seriously! That I'm not, that I'm some complicated thing just sucks on so many levels.


Paula may very well be true to her boyfriend while seeking and/or getting a woman. Maybe that's their rules.

Yeah, the jury is still out on all that. I'll write about that in another thread. I have a horrible, sinking feeling this is going to go only slightly better than my transition did for my marriage. I'm kind of used to "OMG, I love you, I can't live without you! Wait, you're what? Oh you can GET THE HELL OUT!" Honestly, if that's how it goes down, I'll just give him back everything he's ever given me, and write him a check to cover what he's spent on dinners and stuff for me. (I do buy for him from time to time.)

What Paula really wants is to find a way to not be miserable, always wanting what she doesn't have. (We're not going to be bold here and shoot for "happiness." Just "non-miserable.") What Paula really wants is to find relationships where she isn't the object of intense resentment and hatred at the end of them. (Again, we'll set modest goals and not shoot for "lifetime relationships" here, just "no hate when they end.") Or at least where she doesn't have to write a big check if she does more than shake hands with someone. All kidding aside, I have terrible feelings of guilt about every relationship I've been in. I am very afraid of hurting anyone else. I just don't want to live with those feelings again. I'd rather be alone - or have meaningless one night stands. (Not a big fan of those, btw.)

Pretty clearly, Paula has a bunch of stuff to get over, not the least of which is "how can someone who's only ever had sex with women before her current relationship suddenly find themselves ashamed of having sex with women?"

[Lexi_83]

Absolutely Tracii, and this is what, I guess, I am finding most curious. If anything, I get more in the mood when dressed, especially when dressed nice, and so far no complaints from the beneficiary ;)...Because you look amazing!

[mechamoose]

I'm really tired of feeling horrible about myself about this. I won't cheat on anyone I'm with. I won't. I'd rather break it off and be alone than do that. Anyway, yes, I understand the world thinks I'm terrible. I get it. I know you don't think I am horrible - we've talked too much. I feel, really, really, really bad about myself though. I really dislike these feelings.

To me, it comes down to some pretty basic things: Are you being deceptive with the new person? Are you keeping your previous promises? Are you being true to *yourself*?

If any of these don't line up, you probably shouldn't be doing it.

(Viewer update: I'm a bi 'man' in a long term MF relationship, I have a long time male friend who is on my wife's 'approved' list for me to frolic with.)

My 'approved' BF set up a meeting with a super cute man who wanted us both. I just.. couldn't. This guy hit every 'hot' button I have, but I just couldn't do it..

This is part an identity question and part a relationship question. There is no clear answer to one without the other, and neither are simple.

(Hang in there Paula!)

- MM

[CherylFlint]

When in drab, I’m all a 100% guy who likes girls.
When I’m dressed as “Cheryl”, I’m 100% female who likes guys.
Can’t get any easier than that.

[Pink Susan]

Attracted to same , God if I met some of you lot , I couldn't control myself !:)

[jenni_xx]

Hi Chrissi

Hello! I'm gay and currently in a relationship. Was married to a man that completely accepted my crossdressing - he knew from the moment I first met him. We separated well over a year ago now (a few months later our civil partnership was officially "dissolved" (can't call it a divorce as it wasn't a "marriage" in the legal sense as gay marriage wasn't legal when we committed to each other).

Anyway, met my current boyfriend back in February, and while I told him that I crossdress, he isn't too receptive about it all. I'm fine with that and don't push it in any way. He's seen me dressed a couple of times - the first time his reaction was to laugh and then apologise!! It's quite a telling reaction all said and done though, hence why I don't push it with him. He's a great guy and I'm really happy with him though, so it's all good really.

[antonyio]

i cant class myself as gay,yes i have been in a relationship with a guy,who couldn't handle me as a transgender,but i prefer females,i still have my male parts,but class myself as 90% female,so does that make me a straight transgender or a lesbian transgender