Bruce Jenner caused me turmoil

[crossdrezzer1]

I am glad for Bruce Jenner for doing what he thinks is right for him but it being all over the media and all is a problem for me and I would guess some of you. My wife is a DADT kind of lady and knows this side of me but wants nothing to do with it even though in the past I have received some lovely presents... She asked me the other day if I was going to do to her what Bruce did to his wife and transistion, she said she couldn't accept that if so.. I reassured her that I am happy as a male and its a fetish of mine to feel fem and act fem in private and if I could delete this part of me I would since its so hated by society but I cant and its just a small part of me(even though its what I think of all the time). I keep that part of me in check. Never less we had to have that conversation because of the media hype of Bruce...

[AllieSF]

That is not Bruce's nor any other out and about trans person's fault. That is a specific issue within your own household. I understand that you want to keep it under cover as much as possible because of your wife's viewpoint. However, that is not always possible. What if you both happen to see a trans person at the store or theater, is it their fault too because your wife may react negatively to it? Maybe these rare occurrences, like Bruce's very public coming out, are actually great opportunities to get your wife to talk more about the situation and to one day realize that us trans folk are not the horrors that some think we are, and that we are not going away, if anything more of us will be coming out of the closet. People need to realize that we deal with what life has given us, as you are trying to do, as best possible, and sometimes the supposedly offended party needs to take some time and make a personal effort to really try to understand all this "stuff". Maybe they need to get third party assistance, called counseling or therapy, to help them get their own mind around something that they do not want to know about, but also know will not go away. I think that some of them feel better with their head buried in the sand and more secure making their spouse suffer by not talking about something very important that needs a lot of talking about. I do wish you the best of luck.

So, obviously, in my opinion Bruce did not cause anything.

[Nadine Spirit]

She asked me the other day if I was going to do to her what Bruce did to his wife and transistion,

From what I can see, they are divorced. So what exactly was he doing to his wife?



if I could delete this part of me I would since its so hated by society

Interesting idea, it is not what I have encountered in the society I live in.

For the record, I think that what Bruce is doing is awesome. My sister texted me just the other day and said she saw the interview, loved it, and needed to chat with me. She knows about me, but is kind of DADT about me, the interview prompted her to want to talk to me about it. So I think it is a good thing.

[Ameli]

I think you should really be thankful to Bruce Jenner for this opportunity to talk to your spouse about this. I suspect it isn't the first time that she has wondered if you might some day transition and this was the opportunity to bring it up. I understand that it may have been uncomfortable for both of you, but sometimes just saying something makes it feel better. I'm sure it's hard for her to deal with this and she likely doesn't have many people that she can talk to about it.

Ameli

[CONSUELO]

As Allie pointed out, it is not Bruce Jenner's fault. Perhaps his public transition will initiate lots of conversations and perhaps some understanding. I hope so.

[Tracii G]

Oh right lets blame someone else for your problems.
Sorry this victim mentality people have these days really is annoying.
Your issues are brought on by you and no one else.

[I Am Paula]

I'm hated by society? I didn't know. They're treating me pretty good so far.

[mykell]

i would hope that my wife would pay more attention to the bruce jenner media blitz but she wants no part, it gives an opportunity for conversation and opinions to be fielded and from what im seeing its fairly positive....not a bad thing in my mind.....

[Adriana Moretti]

Bruce is bringing alot of things to light....I was just watching that special on E called About Bruce.....Hopefully he does the right thing and becomes a voice in the community. I found it interesting the tv show...and thought "Wow....people are going to be educated on some issues from this"....if only it was on a major network instead of E...

[msniki48]

You know I watched the interview and saw many parallels to my life as to all the reasons Bruce had not transitioned till late in life and many are the reasons I have not transitioned. It would be nice to move somewhere and do it quietly and just become niki, but i can't. I could not imagine Bruce doing it quietly as i'm sure she would love to have done. With all the paparazzi around checking her every move I believe she is forced to do this publicly, and sees this as an opportunity to bring it to the public as a learning experience. I am grateful. Those that know i am TG have all asked my opinion and i try to be as honest as i can. I really feel for her.

i only hope there is more empathy than jokes as this unfolds. Unfortunately or fortunately... for me, this has spurred a lot of feelings i have been suppressing and i think i'm going to go back to therapy to check on my own journey and make some choices for the future.


hugs,

niki

[KimBarely]

While the media coverage of Bruce's situation brings up an uncomfortable conversation/situation, it's her story and was amazing to hear it shared.

I've often noticed in my life that when a big personal life issue crops up how it seems like every single TV show instantly decides to weave it into the storyline. I swear my wife and I both heard the word "transition" or "transitioning" a couple times a day, every day in our respective workplaces the week after I came out to her as a CD'er.

By the way, Bruce's special was 6 whole days after I came out. I have good timing, right?!?

We watched it together. I freaked out a bit, I cried, my wife was calm. We were and still are in the reassurance phase.

The point is, there's no reassurance I could give my wife that would MAKE her not have the concern that I would do like Bruce and transition. She has to trust in what I share when we talk and will hopefully get where she needs to be. Let's face it, transition and/or being gay is probably the number one immediate concern for every wife or girlfriend of a CD'er. It affects them too! Big time!

The only ways through are communication which hopefully leads to some level of acceptance or conversely, non-communication which will end up in a broken marriage/relationship.

All that the Bruce situation did was put the issue in the forefront. It needs to be talked about and discussed. I want my wife to talk to me about her concerns. It's my job to allay those concerns.

[sheilagirl]

After the Bruce Jenner special my girlfriend asked me about Sheila. I told her the truth and she totally accepted it!
I Love this woman!

[~Joanne~]

I think what the OP is saying is, without all the media hype, the subject wouldn't have come up and his wife would still be in a DADT blissful way of thinking. We have had conversations here and there since I have been a member of this forum on whether or not our SO's would benefit by joining our site and for the most part, I don't see how since most of us have our own take on this whole thing, wants and needs that doesn't pertain to the next girl or the one after that.

Bruce is after all high profile right now and everyone under the sun is talking about him/her with or without any real knowledge of what they are talking about to begin with. All they are doing is talking babble and the common TV watcher is prone to believe that babble as bible. I can easily see this media exposure causing some SO's in a DADT situation to start thinking the worse case senerio in their relationships that just isn't there.

I don't think the OP is blaming bruce, I just don't think what he was saying was worded right. Of coarse this is just my opinion and I could be off base here when it comes to the OP.

[ReineD]

She asked me the other day if I was going to do to her what Bruce did to his wife and transistion, she said she couldn't accept that if so..

Your wife is saying what most every wife says in the beginning, except it usually comes in the form of the question, "Do you want to be a woman?"

I would say that a huge chunk of GGs cannot see themselves married to spouses who have transitioned from male to female. So your wife just saw Bruce in the media, and she wants reassurance, that's all. Just keep doing what you're doing ... tell your wife that you are a man, you will not transition, and you can add that the vast majority of CDers are like you. There aren't a lot of Bruce Jenners out there.

For what it's worth, I kept asking my SO if s/he was going to transition for years! It takes a loooooong time for most people to understand the difference between CDers and transsexuals.

[AllieSF]

Joanne, I hear and understand what you are saying. But, in a lot of DADT relationships, the "Out of Site (deaf ear), Out of Mind" attitude that some spouses take is so very unproductive and actually very damaging to a relationship. I believe that they are mistakenly trying to protect themselves from something they do not know nor understand and are very afraid to take the plunge to learn more. If they would seek dialog and understanding they would most likely realize that it is probably a lot less harmless than they think. If they had had the ability to talk about situations like Bruce's publicly coming out, or movies with some type of trans element, or just seeing another trans human being in their own protected little world, then they would be much better equipped to openly and honestly discuss their real concerns about their spouse. That is why I believe that the closed ears and mouth syndrome when it comes to discussing this side of ourselves is detrimental to their relationship and future. The spouses crossdressing is less of a potential problem then their refusal to get involved in talking about it. Ignoring the real world around them and in their own house is a very false risky blissful way of living.

As to having the spouse/SO join this site, if they have decent amount of common sense and can talk about issues in a mature manner, then yes, come to the site and see the real world of us trans members, all the good and not so good, depending on whose point of view. If they are sensitive to everything, or refuse to give their trans spouse a chance, then they should stay away from here, because, as a famous movie line goes, "They can't handle the truth!". That truth may be far from their worst fears, but they will probably never learn that simple relationship saving fact.

As others have already stated, it is an opportunity to talk about it. If the trans spouse does not have the courage to bring it up and insist that they talk about it, these type of situations can offer an alternative great moment to try to start talking. Otherwise, both are going to suffer unnecessarily.

[Teresa]

I may not of seen all the interviews, being in the UK it's not so much in the press so my wife may have missed it !
I felt that if he'd dressed more feminine and announced a fem name during the interviews it might have avoided some obvious press questions and I can see why some think it's a publicity stunt !
To me many of his comments rang true in fact without knowing his full history I feel the start of my Cding goes deeper ! I guess that part was a little disconcerting I began to question that I was trying to brush aside some of the continual deep feelings and should consider a different path ! I may be about the same age as Bruce but it scares me a great deal , I don't have the financial or family support !

[Di]

I am glad for Bruce Jenner for doing what he thinks is right for him but it being all over the media and all is a problem for me and I would guess some of you. My wife is a DADT kind of lady and knows this side of me but wants nothing to do with it ...

For a dadt GG I guess it would be scary thing cause you both prob do not talk about any of this al all. For me as a GG I had a complete different take. The aboutBruce pt 2 last night really showed me however though Bruce was Honest with all his wife's from the beginning / he was not honest with him self. ( common I am sure) and all the hurt all around. I hope all this will help couples talk and be honest with each other. And see this is nothing to be ashamed of.



Add: your wife bringing this up would be the perfect time to talk. ALSO all the unconditional love the family is giving Bruce gives me hope for others. And I think this could be a wonderful thing that the general public can maybe understand a bit more and I applaud Bruce for sharing with such class.


Typing on my phone yikes

[sheilagirl]

I feel very fortunate, in that, after 50 years, I feel pretty comfortable with who I am. I'm a Hetro-sexual Male that happens to, absolutely LOVE to wear clothing normally worn by Females. I have NO desire to become a Woman. I Respect Woman way too much to even assume that I have any idea what it's like to be them. All I know is that, for as long as I can remember, I have admired the natural beauty of Women and I've wanted to imitate that. My girlfriend is very understanding and I've assured her that I was not Gay, (not that there's anything wrong with that), and that I just happen to share a few of her "hobbies", like shopping for clothes and wearing make-up. She said that she had a feeling that I had those "proclivities" and was very excited about the prospects. We'll see...

[Dianne S]

... to do to her what Bruce did to his wife and transistion ...

Oh, wow, I hate it when it's put that way.

We who transition don't transition to "do" something "to" somebody else. We transition because we have to for our own mental health. It's not something we choose.

Anyway, you can reassure your wife that you don't want to transition, but it wouldn't hurt to educate her about why people do transition.

[ReineD]

As to having the spouse/SO join this site, if they have decent amount of common sense and can talk about issues in a mature manner, then yes, come to the site and see the real world of us trans members, all the good and not so good, depending on whose point of view. If they are sensitive to everything, or refuse to give their trans spouse a chance, then they should stay away from here, because, as a famous movie line goes, "They can't handle the truth!". That truth may be far from their worst fears, but they will probably never learn that simple relationship saving fact.

Actually, there are more threads here that point or hint at the sexual aspect of the CDing, (or the thrill of it even if words like "fetish" or "sexual" are not used) than people who are transitioning. We can't put much stock into the words "I feel I am a woman", unless it is accompanied by concrete steps to body modification and presenting as a woman in one's daily life to people that one knows. Half the CDers in this forum refer to themselves as "women" when they are dressed and so these words have a wide spectrum of meaning, like anything else.

Back to what scares wives about the CDing ... the idea that their husbands don't need them, because they're having so much more fun CDing. Wives also get upset oveer seeing CDers flirt with each other with picture posting and comments. They wonder if their own husbands are attracted to other CDers.

So it's not just the transitioning ... and I suppose when you add it all up, it makes sense that marriages are simpler when crossgender expression doesn't come into it. It takes a LOT of reassurance from a husband to a wife to make it work, and this just takes time.

[Badtranny]

Has anyone considered that Bruce is very likely a member here?

[Jenniferathome]

So that is a great thing then. He opened the door for you to TALK. I think it's critical for you to explain the most obvious differences between he and you. Namely, he has thought of himself as female since his early childhood. You have not. Talk about that.

[ReineD]

Has anyone considered that Bruce is very likely a member here?

Misty, what makes you think this is likely?

[Adriana Moretti]

just sharing for those of you not in the u.s.....THIS was on this week if you missed it,...it's part 2....im sure part 1 is floating around but I couldnt find it.....love it or hate it.....hopefully he does the right thing......

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2qngpk

[paulaprimo]

Has anyone considered that Bruce is very likely a member here?

well if she is a member, i for one am very proud of you and very happy
to share and be a part this forum with you! :)

[Rachelakld]

DADT is fine, until 'its hits the fan.
Communication is to me, far better than DADT, that way my wife know what 'its going to hit the fan, and when 'its going to hit the fan.

Proud of Bruce
Proud of Bruce's family and they way the are coping :)

[Michelle (Oz)]

Joanne, I hear and understand what you are saying. But, in a lot of DADT relationships, the "Out of Site (deaf ear), Out of Mind" attitude that some spouses take is so very unproductive and actually very damaging to a relationship. I believe that they are mistakenly trying to protect themselves from something they do not know nor understand and are very afraid to take the plunge to learn more. If they would seek dialog and understanding they would most likely realize that it is probably a lot less harmless than they think. If they had had the ability to talk about situations like Bruce's publicly coming out, or movies with some type of trans element, or just seeing another trans human being in their own protected little world, then they would be much better equipped to openly and honestly discuss their real concerns about their spouse. That is why I believe that the closed ears and mouth syndrome when it comes to discussing this side of ourselves is detrimental to their relationship and future. The spouses crossdressing is less of a potential problem then their refusal to get involved in talking about it. Ignoring the real world around them and in their own house is a very false risky blissful way of living.

Allie I must correct your view that a DADT arrangement is very damaging to a relationship. Sure in theory talking through issues might be a good option to resolve misconceptions but if a wife best copes knowing that her husband CDs but not wanting to see, talk, be involved with it then give her the space she needs to grow.

In almost 3 years from our first talk my wife has gone from suicidal to confident that I don't want to transition, I am not gay nor will leave her, i.e. the sort of things that wives worry about but no amount of assurance from a CD provides comfort. In that time too I know that she loves me totally by acknowledging my need to dress and coping in her way. Our relationship has grown stronger and stronger. Any attitude on my behalf that my wife didn't love me because she doesn't accept me would be self-fulfilling. Pushing her to become involved would also drive her away.

The dynamics of a relationship between two people and how each grows both individually and as a couple remain unique to that couple. I can at least provide testimony to the value of a DADT relationship. From what I read in the Forum, I am far from unique.

[Badtranny]

Misty, what makes you think this is likely?

'cuz

It just seems mathematically probable.

If she's been crossdressing for years, and she has TG friends, then don't you think it's unlikely that she HASN'T floated through here?

[Marcelle]

Hi Crossdrezzer,

I understand your angst that as the concept of being TG becomes a bit more "media driven" it has the potential to cause our SOs to question our own sense of being TG. As I become more and more public both in my private and professional life as TG, I get the old "so you are like Bruce . . . becoming a woman" comment a lot. I take that opportunity to educate people and inform them that being TG is not a strict binary. Binaries make people feel safe because they can pigeon hole others and when it comes to being TG the Vanilla world and to some extent our own community see it as an all or none event. Specifically you are either (1) In the club and transitioning or (2) just dressing for fun but still all guy. Sometimes it is not that easy and for me it definitely is not a simple answer 1 or 2.

I understand you are in DADT relationship but since your wife brought it up, take the opportunity to educate her on what CDing means to you. I know you did this already but I would still take a bit more time to reassure her about your own sense of being TG and be honest, if it is truly important to you to express it in whatever guise along the spectrum then tell her. Bruce has just provided you with the catalyst to discuss it further much like I am sure her revelation in the media has for others who water here. Capitalize on that and open dialogue with your wife . . . it is a good thing :)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

.....I reassured her that I am happy as a male and its a fetish of mine to feel fem and act fem in private and if I could delete this part of me I would since its so hated by society but I cant and its just a small part of me(even though its what I think of all the time). I keep that part of me in check....

this IS the problem...

you think of it all the time....you keep it in check....which is it???

and for what its worth, experience shows that although cd'ing is not being ts, its a very compelling and overwhelming feeling that cannot be controlled, it does not usually go away, and it often gets more consuming....

trust me i get it...its nice to avoid tough issues and BJenner brought the issue to the fore, but its inevitable.

maybe its an opportunity to prove this out to your wife who obviously has thoughts she wanted to share prior to the interview...

[Sharon B.]

It has been my understanding that even though they are divorced, Kris Jenner has played the field so to speak. That is why her first marriage fell apart she wasn't satisfy with one person. Even when she was married to Jenner she also played the field.

[mykell]

adrianna thanks for posting that clip of the show.....was sharing mikell with a therapy group that night, after seeing it whats not to like about the coverage, some real fears and emotions and concerns were shared and would be a wonderful resource to initiate conversation, not everyone will transition, crossdrezzer only you can answer honestly about your wifes concerns....

[emma5410]

'cuz

It just seems mathematically probable.

If she's been crossdressing for years, and she has TG friends, then don't you think it's unlikely that she HASN'T floated through here?

Perhaps she did and got banned:)

[Lvjim]

If you want to know how someone feels about crossdressing and transgender just bring up bruce jenner and hold on because most have an opinion that they will expess.

[AllieSF]

Hi Michelle (Oz), You are correct that not all DADT arrangements are bad or recipes for disaster in a relationship. I should have been clearer and specified that I meant those where the spouse hates it and refuses to even talk about it or try to understand it, thus leaving the trans spouse in a very difficult position. If the parties in the relationship can civilly talk about it when needed that is a different situation.

[Angie G]

I so very glad my wife has no fears of that. It must be hard for those who's ladys do have those fears.:hugs:
Angie

[Michelle789]

@Crossdrezzer1

I'm sorry to hear about your wife's reaction. You did the right thing by telling her that this is a fetish and that you won't transition. This is a common fear that wives of CDers have, that they're going to transition. Most CDers (probably 98%) will never transition and are perfectly happy as males. A small percentage of us do.

The unfortunate part is, there are no guarantees in life. There is no way for her to know that you won't transition until after the fact (that is, if you do transition). There is no way unfortunately for you to be certain either. I am a TS, so I know from experience, that we often lie to ourselves, and tell ourselves that we're just crossdressers. I was convinced for 12 years (that is since I first learned what a crossdresser and a transsexual was) that I was a crossdresser. It was only after I started accepting myself as a woman, which wasn't until a year ago, that I knew that I was TS. I CDed on and off for an additional 9-10 years before I moved out to California, and I experienced symptoms of GD going back to when I was 5 - that is the earliest I remember. I also sometimes wondered if I was just a failure as a man - I wasn't very macho - not even close. I wasn't good at chasing after women. I tried to fit myself into the male box and wasn't very good at it nor was I fulfilled - but I still thought that I was just a CDer. Until my life unraveled 3 years ago. That is when I first seriously started thinking that I might be a TS. It took two more years of extreme torture to finally accept myself as a woman and as TS, and to begin transition. I have personally been much happier since I started my transition.

I really hope things work out for you, and that your wife understands that you'll probably never transition. If things don't work and start going out of control, you may want to consider couples counseling. The sad truth is there are no guarantees in life. People think they found Mr. or Mrs. right, only to find out that your spouse is a CDer or going to transition and become a woman (or a man). You never know what's going to happen. You could have a blissfully happy marriage, only to find out that your spouse committed some horrendous crime, or your spouse might suddenly die of a heart attack. Or get killed in an accident, or be abducted. Unfortunately, you can't prevent the unlikely doomsday scenarios from happening. But they do happen.

And there is a far better chance that you'll get divorced for a reason other than transition or even for being a CDer. Half of all marriages end up in divorce. Only 2-5% of the population are CDers, and only like .01% of the population are TS.

[Beverley Sims]

For a lot of us,just letting our wives see what is happening there, helps for understanding and an opportunity sometimes to open up dialogue.

I do not advocate using Bruce Jenner as an example, or comparison for your own arguments though.

[trishacd]

My wife watched the bruce jenner show and ran me threw the ringer.i had to explain i wasnt going to transition ,i just love dressing up as a woman.

[Kate T]

I agree with most of those here who have talked about the sheer fact that in a DADT there has been SOME line of communication opened.

It's whether you see it as glass half full or glass half empty. Glass half empty is the interview worried your wife and put pressure on you. Glass half full view is that not only has your wife seen a positive role model (and whatever has happened in Bruce's past relationships it is difficult to deny that she is a GOOD person) but ALSO it has given you a chance to talk to your wife about your feelings. I'd call those good outcomes.

[docrobbysherry]

I'm not a big fan of these ratings scripted reality shows. I don't watch any of them. Including Bruce's.

But, I won't condemn him for going for the notariety or bucks. And, how can getting everyone thinking and talking openly about T's be a BAD thing?:straightface:

[Jennifer0874]

On a personal level the Bruce Jenner interview was a good thing for my wife and I. Throughout the interview she wanted to know how I was feeling and if it was hard to watch at any point.

After the interview she told me that she would support me if I ever needed to transition.

For my wife she was able to garner more understanding than fear or anger.

[lexivanderpump]

Dear Crossdrezzer1,
After Bruce's interview, the EXACT same thing happened to me as happened to you word for word. Same questions from my wife, same scenario as you. Luckily things are "back to normal".

Love,
Lexi V.

[Tracii G]

Funny thing is about this whole thing is I have respect for Bruce's kids now.
I hope it brings some light into the trans community.

[STACY B]

I thought is was pretty good interviews I saw both , My only problem is with the whole ( Meeting her thing)? What the hell is that supposed to mean ? Her, Bruce is her, Do they mean when Bruce will REALLY be presenting an Dressing Female ? Hell I guess Bruce will present female when He no longer looks like He ? He will have to jump the fence one day I guess. I just don't get all of the talk about meeting HER ? We don't make some Magical Transformation into someone Totally different ! Same Brain Same Body ,Maybe shaped different, Same personality , Maybe different in presentation , But same person different wrapper.

I certainly don't want to be different , I just want to be the female version of myself. Rough as it is, Take it or leave it, Only thing I think Bruce should have added is I am the same person an the only thing that happen to me when I was born was a slight birth defect that could have been fixed if Not for the Male testosterone running through my veins that turned me into what you see now an more so what you have seen in the past. Hormones are VERY POWERFUL thing that can make things appear different that what they really are.
That's why we take them to erase the damage they have done an to block them for future damages and get the right ones for our own Body an Soul now.
By the way if there had been a surgery preformed early on in young Trans peoples lives to remove said birth defect there would be alot less problems now for the simple reason as far as M.T.F Trans not having Testicals would help in the hormone process an we would not be (So called trapped in the wrong body) The body would not exist as we know it now. Just my thoughts !! Maybe in the future there will be some kind of test to see what your gender is Not Just your SEX . Maybe they will look past the package an see into the heart and soul of a person some how an Gender them then ?

[Vickie_CDTV]

Though they did mention it once during the original interview that not all men who dress are TSs, I do wish they had said it a few more times, and made it more clear. For the sake of the average cis viewer, as well as those who dress and have SOs who are worried about their husbands really being TS.

[Claire Cook]

For what it's worth, I kept asking my SO if s/he was going to transition for years! It takes a loooooong time for most people to understand the difference between CDers and transsexuals.

Hi Crossdrezzer,

Reine has nailed this conversation for me. My wife was very much the same way .. it literally took years for her to accept that even though I dress as female a lot, I am not going that route. So by all means keep that line of communication open and keep reassuring your wife that you are not going to transition. And keep bringing her flowers!

And society is becoming more accepting of us. I know I am constantly surprised at the lack of negative reactions I get when people find out that I CD. Just the other day I was at the checkout in a grocery store and the saleslady, perhaps tongue in cheek, asked to see my ID since I had a bottle of wine. She smiled and said "I want to make sure that you are over 40".. (Yes, dear, way over...). So looked at her and said "Do you really want to see it?" "Yes." "OK, I'll make your day...." So out comes my driver's license (umm, male, no wig or makeup in the pic...). She looks at it, looks at me and ... "I don't believe it!" "Believe it hon .. I AM over 40!" We had a good laugh at that .. as did the lady behind me.

So perhaps your angst about what society thinks is based a little bit on the possibility that you have not fully accepted yourself? if I've learned anything from this forum and from my experience, I had to accpedt myself before expecting others to accept me.

Have a great day ...:battingeyelashes:

[Maxie]

I watched the whole thing. About 30 minutes into it my wife sat down with me. After about 5 minutes she got up and I asked her if it was too much for her and if so we could talk about it. She said she couldn't take anything serious from someone involved with "Kim" and the "K" clan. Later that night she told me that she loved me and showed me in her own special way.

[Suzanne F]

I am TS and yes I first just cross dressed. Sorry that the few of us who are in that category can cause cross dressers with spouses to face questions. However, what I think is most important here is that this has given all of us an opportunity to be kind to ourselves! We are not defective, we are just different than most. The OP says she would delete the part of her that is feminine. She acts as if she should be punished for her abnormality. How can we ask our spouses to support us if we hate this part of us? No! I will never do that again. Yes I love my wife and children. Yes this has caused them some pain. However I have become a better person to all of them since I faced and embraced who I really am. One day it will not be seen as some cancer to be cut out!
Suzanne

[char GG]

I didn't watch the Bruce interview, however, I read about it. What strikes me as odd is that he was married three times!

I can understand one time, maybe two, but three?

[PaulaQ]

I can understand one time, maybe two, but three?

Why would that be odd? Bruce may well still really like women. We don't all turn straight once we start HRT. In fact it's not clear that HRT affects our sexual orientation at all. (It's reported to happen maybe 1/3 of the time, but it isn't clear that it is the hormones as opposed to finally being honest with ourselves that does it. We don't know.) And lots of people (not just trans) have multiple marriages.

Also, many of us marry, hoping it will "cure" us of these feelings.

[Mark/Rebecca]

I never really thought much of the Kadashian clan either way, but those girls make their living off of the drama they create, and they kept that very private. Even Kris didn't weaponize it during the divorce. I certainly have a lot more respect for those girls. They seem much more human and likeable.

[Lorileah]

What strikes me as odd is that he was married three times!

I can understand one time, maybe two, but three?

I see we haven't done a good enough job explaining sexuality vs gender identity. If we could somehow convince the SOs and GGs here that the majority of time the TG's desires in sexual matters doesn't change. Even having the physical parts doesn't direct who you love.

So how do we explain this that makes sense? If you like women, you will likely always like women. The hormones, the clothes the actions doesn't change that. This isn't just for the GGs here, convincing younger TGs that they don't have to switch is just as hard because we are educated from a young age that A goes into B. This has been a recent area of discussion for me. I have been asked twice this week if I want a man now. Hard for me to answer because that was never a question in my mind. I am attracted to either BUT I prefer women. Short answer is "Who ever I fall in love with". But that is meI have felt the same since I had feelings in sex at all. Since the majority (we have done polls in the past) of the members here prefer heterosexual male to female relations, that is most likely to stay the same IFthey transition(and that is UNLIKELY).

The top two questions SO's ask their TG mates when they come out are: 1) are you gay. We have established here that 90% are not but I understand that when you are exposed to transgender in any fashion on TV, it appears that way. And considering the TG mate kept it to themselves, suggesting a lack of trust in the SO's ability to handle it, I think it may be an excellent question. However when they say "no" you can believe it usually. 2) do you want to transition? Most of the time this too will be "no". Many here are comfortable with the relations they have, thus keeping this part a secret out of fear of losing the best thing they ever had and have no desire to change genders. Usually they speak the truth there too.

Multiple marriages in the land of ElLay, seem to be the standard also. No one questioned the sexuality of Mickey Rooney, Zsa Zsa, Liz Taylor, Ava Gardner, Larry King, Richard Prior. People get married and often find they aren't compatible. The average American gets married twice. Jenner's three is just normal. If you watched the interview his ex's are not bitter over it. Also he was married three times...you don't know how many dates or affairs (if any) he had to ...women.

If this forum could do anything good in the world it would be to get rid of those two stereotypes.


Gender doesn't equal sexuality

[ReineD]

Gender doesn't equal sexuality

This is true, but it would be interesting if we could gather data about the percentage of transitioners who end up in relationships with men post-transition, after having been with women all their lives. Quite a few members in the TS section have done this after they were freed from their marriages to GGs. And I know of several still-married-to-GG TSs who have platonic relationships with their wives (they are emotionally bonded together), but the sexual attraction is no longer there in favor of an attraction to men, both in this forum and among the TSs that I know. There was also a feature article about transitioners in the New York Times magazine some months back. Several also said their tastes turned to men post-transition. And then there are transitioners who end up with other members of the community (whether CD or non-op TS). Maybe there is a larger percentage TGs (to total TGs) who are male attracted, compared to non-TGs?

[Dianne S]

This is true, but it would be interesting if we could gather data about the percentage of transitioners who end up in relationships with men post-transition, after having been with women all their lives.

My therapist gave me these statistics (which I think are entirely anecdotal, but anyway...) She says about 1/3 of post-transition previously-heterosexual TS's remain attracted to women, 1/3 switch to men and 1/3 are bisexual or asexual.

These stats seem reasonable to me based on the TS's I know. In my case, I definitely find men more attractive than women now, which is something I never expected to happen going into this.

[Alex!]

Interesting discussion. One of my friends transitioned a few years ago. She looks fantastic, but she confessed to being bummed that she has lost her libido and has become an asexual. She has no interest whatsoever in sex. She did not expect that outcome and apparently regrets the transition as a result. It is worth noting, since it appears to be a relatively rare complication of transitioning. I suspect this had much more to do with the hormone therapy, which occurs well before HRS, so if a loss of libido takes place, it should be possible to stop the treatment before going all the way; that is, if having a sex drive is more important than transitioning fully.

[Badtranny]

that is, if having a sex drive is more important than transitioning fully.

Yeah, if having sex as a man is more important than having the world recognize you for who you are, than I would probably advise against transitioning.

It's too damn hard to regret for something like that.

[sometimes_miss]

I think what the OP is saying is, without all the media hype, the subject wouldn't have come up and his wife would still be in a DADT blissful way of thinking.
Basically, either that we or our SO remain in denial; the whole, 'if I ignore it it will go away' theory of problems in life. Which of course never works indefinitely; eventually, doing that just bites us in the ass. Unless of course, you die first.

[Lorileah]

]. Maybe there is a larger percentage TGs (to total TGs) who are male attracted, compared to non-TGs?
From a personal point of view (and that is the only point of view any of us can present) I don't think the hormones change your desire for one sex over another. Maybe some it does but I feel that those feelings were either there all along or they cave to societal pressures (once again). After all we are told we need a mate and we are told it should be of the opposite gender.

So I will twist the post after yours statistics a bit. I think many start as bi (IMO...that is a normal state anyway) and are able to slide into the expected life. However, finding a mate, of either gender, is difficult during and maybe after transitioning :idontknow:. What I say is I am in a limbo. Gay men don't want to date me because I am not a man. Lesbians won't because i am not a woman. Straight men fear I am contagious and the majority of women fear the unknown as the OP's wife does.

[ReineD]

What I say is I am in a limbo. Gay men don't want to date me because I am not a man. Lesbians won't because i am not a woman. Straight men fear I am contagious and the majority of women fear the unknown as the OP's wife does.

Yes. This seems to be a universal quandary.

There are some transitioners who find partners, but the dating pool is much slimmer and I dare say it is even more difficult after a certain age. This might be why some people choose to not transition? They don't want to end up alone?

And then there are the lucky few who end up staying in their relationships post-transition. Maybe having an accepting partner helps with the decision to transition for some people, even if sex lives with their SOs change?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

if you are "choosing" ANYTHING vs comparing it to transition, you probably shouldn't transition.

You can do a chart...

Transition
PROS
You survive and get to live what
feels like an authentic life

CONS
Everything else

maybe a bit of hyperbole but you get the point..

and to add to the stats..my "attraction" to women was totally in my mind...making everything "right" cleared all that up quick..
one twist is that SOCIALLY i can't imagine being with a guy...ewwwww...LOL....so in my mind its always a faceless big strong man with me and when i've been with guys i found myself more focused on me than on him.
i don't analyze it i just do it..

lots of cd's go through this whole sexuality screw thing......if you are fantasizing you are the girl to BigO then you are on this list..if you are "attracted to guys but only when dressed" you are on this list

[Alex!]

Bruce Jenner's story is but a small step in a very long line of steps taken in what is a civil rights matter. Many more steps are required before societies around the world mature enough to see past bigotry and hostility. I fear that Jenner's experience will turn into a circus given his background and the desire for teevee channels to benefit financially from what should otherwise be a private matter. On the other hand, perhaps it will unfold with at least some dignity, and the public will learn something about gender, sexuality, and the difference between the two.

Many positive steps have already taken place for the LGB part of LGBT in several countries already. This can only be seen as helpful for the T part, in my opinion...

[ReineD]

SOCIALLY i can't imagine being with a guy...ewwwww...LOL....so in my mind its always a faceless big strong man with me and when i've been with guys i found myself more focused on me than on him.
i don't analyze it i just do it..

This could be problematic if you want to build a lasting relationship. He could feel used or objectified.

[Sara Jessica]

Two points, I guess this is as good of a place to put them as any...

1) RE: Sexuality (the tangent of late). This makes me think of a dearly departed friend who was self-avowed hetero but confided in me that she feared being alone and as such, he was holding her options wide open. There was even an ever-so-slight giddiness that came about her at this prospect but I think that was just her femininity shining through rather than a true expression of where her sexual orientation might have been heading had she not passed away.

Did hormones affect her to somehow twist her orientation? I will never know.

2) RE: Bruce (subtitled "how people who should know better just don't get it" -or- "maybe it really is THAT hard to wrap your head around this thing of ours")...I was out the other day and ran into a gentleman I know decently well who happens to be gay. He couldn't wait to talk to me after seeing the Bruce interview but what came out was his absolute bewilderment as to why Bruce would make such a move. He said "I just don't get it" to which I replied "what is there not to get? You are looking at the same exact situation???" to which he replied "he is OLD, he isn't shaped like "you"...why would he do this?"

Sigh.

This doesn't choose us based on how we might look or how we're shaped. Age is irrelevant as well.

Is it really that hard? I guess it is.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

This could be problematic if you want to build a lasting relationship. He could feel used or objectified.

Don't I know it!!!

Hey i got my issues!!! the social part is surprisingly difficult for me but i am learning more and more to just relax and let it happen socially..

being "present" in the moment sexually has never been something i experienced so its difficult to relax there too sometimes...even when i focus on my partner i haven't really been there for them...

in my experience there are just as many ts women that like women as men... and i do think sometimes we stick with each other whether that's an actual sexual attraction or whether its just a desire to be truly understood...our experience is so outside most guys and gals that no matter what its hard to feel truly known....that may be all about my own internal thoughts and issues but i see way too many ts ts or ts tg couples to not notice its a "thing"...

[Angiemead12]

Bruce coming out definitely rocked my world, my wife and I can totally relate to whats been shown so far and how the things have fallen into place. I wonder what will happen to the rest of us when his documentary comes out in full force! I for one am thinking if I am ready to go through this chaos of our mind, all I know is I broke down hard in front of my wife a week after the show, anxiety got the better of me and my brain was telling me that I can't leave this earth as a man. So we have now come up with a plan and we will see if things fall into place.