My Wife Found Something in the Dryer

[Dani0948]

When I got home from work yesterday, my wife confronted me with 2 pairs of panties I had forgotten to take out of the dryer. We've been married for 30 years and she didn't know I was dressing. I had originally told her before we got married and said that I would stop. We never spoke of it again. I did not dress for nearly 22 years until our daughter went off to college. I did have my share of fantasies. I started with a pair of pantyhose and progressed to a small wardrobe, forms, wig, etc. I was very careful to clean up and put everything away until yesterday.

I had always thought that a reveal would be as risky as discovery and I think I was right. She didn't get mad, but she is very upset. She asked nearly the standard questions - Do you want to be a woman? - No. Are you bi-sexual? - No. Do I want to be with men? - No. I explained that I am only heterosexual and only want to be with her.

I explained that I have been a CD all my life, and that there is no fix or cure. I said I hadn't lied to her as I just didn't tell her (she actually got that). Her biggest problem is that "she is no longer number one". By this she means that I should choose her over dressing. She mentioned divorce and that she would be unable to be accepting. Her next biggest problem was "being locked out of the house". By this she means she would not want to walk in on me and had to call first (she had always called before leaving work so I could get dinner started). When I talked about tolerance and DADT she listened, but "needs to wrap her head around the entire situation." We talked for a couple hours, but mostly repeated the same themes.

I asked if I could hug her and she said yes. We embraced and after a few minutes she decided to watch TV and go to bed. I came to bed later and she was asleep. I fell asleep, but woke up about 1 am and couldn't fall back to sleep. I laid quietly with hundreds of thoughts running through my head. About 4:30 she turned over and touched my hand. I responded with my own touch. This continued until we were embracing, kissing, and finally making love.

Afterward we held each other and talked some more, but kept repeating the same subjects. I promised her I would not dress again until she "wraps her head around it". While I am hopeful, I am still very much afraid our marriage may not recover.

I'll try to get a handle on things and lay low for a while.

Any advice or comments would be appreciated.

[FionaWyn]

Oh wow, that sounds really tough to deal with. At least she didn't flip out. My personal opinion is that she's more worried about what the dressing means and isn't sure she's ready to believe your assurances.

[Meghan4now]

Well now you're in it. Given your previous post, sounds like a subconscious mistake. Freudian slip? Oh right, you said panties.

Seriously though what's done is done. Her initial reaction is probably pretty strong and she may still be able to work with you. So don't loose hope or allow yourself to fall into despair. It will take her some time to process. However you've possibly made a promise that will backfire. If she never deals with it, then you've promised to never dress again. I don't think this is a reasonable promise to hold you to. If she is a mature and reasonable person, I think she will realize that an ultimatum will only build walls between you, and create resentment down the road.

If you have any faith background, now is the time to pray, reflect and look for reconciliation for both of you. Believe it or not, this is where that's "supposed" to be helpful. In the mean time, your sisters here will pray or wish for the best for both of you.

[Suzie Petersen]

Well ... you knew it was just a matter of time, right!
I have seen some of your posts over time and know you have struggled finding a good time to tell. That doesnt matter now, the cat is out of the bag and it is now a matter of damage control instead.

I'm sure you have read many of the posts dealing with the same situation so you probably know the usual advise.

You cannot make her understand this! You cannot explain or rationalize this so it will not be understandable for your wife. It is only a matter of if she is able to accept or tolerate this at some point.

Be honest, dont overwhelm her, dont expect her to initiate talks about it.

You promised not to dress while she is processing this!!! Remember that!!! If you dont think you can keep that promise, it is better to tell her now that you might have to take that back. Right now she might not trust you. Dont give her reason to be right!

Suggest a time for when to talk about it again. If you leave it up to her to initiate, she might never bring it up again!
Be willing to compromise but dont make promises you already know you cannot keep!

She will likely be researching this online. Give her a heads up that she might find a lot of things there which has nothing to do with you and how you feel! (unless it does of course!!)
Suggest she signs up here so she can read and get advise from the GG's here. I'm sure they will help her. This is about the cleanest and most useful place to seek information.

Make it very clear to her that you love and need her! (assuming you do!) and that this does not have anything to do with her being too little or too much of anything.

Anyways, I'm sure you will get loads of advise.

Good luck! You are going to need it.

Hugs
Suzie

[CONSUELO]

Interesting that you said you told her about your cross dressing before you were married,yet she went ahead and married you. A similar thing happened to me. I revealed all before we were married and made no promises to stop or cut back. It was a confession of who I am. Yet after marriage it became a problem. I wonder why this happens. Do women and men blind themselves to aspects of their intended spouse that they don't like and think that all of the other positives will overcome this small negative. Perhaps we believe that we have the power to change people.

[ReineD]

Consuelo, there's a difference between saying 20 years ago, "I used to crossdress but now I have stopped", and "I crossdress, this is part of who I am, and it will be a part of my regular routine". Dani told his wife that he had stopped and so his wife thought he no longer had any interest and it was all behind them.

To Dani, I'm sorry it didn't go as hoped, but your story is testament to two things:

1. How devastating it can be for a wife to find out when she has no clue what this is all about or what it means to you. The statement that your wife made, that she fears "she is no longer number one" is of prime importance here. Most people do look at the CDing as a fetish of sorts and this is the kicker with fetishes or compulsions: they bring a sense of joy, elation, or purpose to the person engaging in the behaviors like nothing else can, even when it is not sexual (for example gambling). It doesn't matter if it is CDing or something else, it's a drive to do something that takes over sometimes, for some people more than others. If it happens to also be sexual then it is difficult for a wife to not feel as if she is what turns you on primarily. If this makes sense.

2. It is much better to be proactive and tell rather than be "found out". When a CDer tells, then his wife receives the message that she was important enough, or enough of a priority (compared to the CDing) to be told. This helps with her attitude in my paragraph above.

It's just going to take time and lots of communication. Your wife will need to reach the point of understanding that nothing has changed and you are still the same person she always knew, and your priorities are still the same. When she reaches that point she will gain a sense of trust in the stability of your future relationship and things will fall into place. Now ... I know it is easy to confuse such a strong urge with gender identity. I read a lot of "this is a part of who I am" on this board, and I agree that the CDing and the need to wear the clothes and/or present as a woman is a part of who you are. But, please take some time to read thoroughly the difference between needing to dress or present as a woman, and feeling clinical distress and impairment over being a male, before explaining to your wife why it is important for you to dress.

[Teresa]

Dani,
This all sounds so familiar but your comment in the third paragraph emphasises a point I made about unworkable boundaries .
It's very easy for a wife to find she's on the wrong side of them and is frightened to walk through her own front door !
Making a promise not to dress is not an easy thing to do , especially when you really need to relieve the stress of the whole situation !

I hope your wife can come to terms with it to give you enough space to dress, you have been totally honest with her .

[Pat]

Now ... I know it is easy to confuse such a strong urge with gender identity. [...] But, please take some time to read thoroughly the difference between needing to dress or present as a woman, and feeling clinical distress and impairment over being a male, before explaining to your wife why it is important for you to dress.

We're at a point in time where the semantics of transgenderism is in flux and so it's hard to express what's going on, but I want to express that crossdressing does have to do with gender identity -- it's an expression of a non-traditional male role. But it is a male role; Reine is completely correct that what you've described so far is not "clinical distress and impairment over being a male" which we mostly now agree to transsexualism. So, by my understanding to date you are transgender, you are not transsexual. Getting these terms worked out makes it possible for you and your wife to discuss what's going on. It also weeds out a lot of the bad information out there about crossdressers/transvestites that is completely inaccurate when talking about a transgender heterosexual male.

For the most part, the societal understanding of "trannies" is the same as the societal understanding of lesbians -- we tend to think of them in terms that make them an entertainment for heterosexual male erotic fantasies. All of that stuff should be removed from the table when you talk. Keep in mind that she probably never had any reason to explore this aspect of the human condition until now. There's an education in front of both of you. Getting an informed counsellor involved might be a wise choice.

[Sandra]

You need to sit down with her and talk answer her questions, worries, concerns and be as honest as you can with her, don't say things that you think she wants to hear as this will do neither of you any good. Tell her how you feel, don't make any promises that you know you can't keep...take things at her pace and maybe try and get her to join here so she can get support from the rest of us GGs in FAB.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

Hi Dani,

I'm sorry this came to a head way sooner than you might have been expecting. I tried posting to your other thread with concerns that you may have a subconscious urge to let yourself be discovered (the system timed me out before I could finish the post), but that ship has clearly sailed. At this point all you can do is commit to addressing all of her concerns with full honesty. One of the things she is dealing with is the fact you kept information from her. You may never have directly lied, but you kept a secret. She can't help but wonder what other secrets you may be keeping. In her mind trust has been broken, and it will take time and effort to regain that trust. Like others here are saying, keep up communication, and if things don't start improving, seeking counseling for the both of you might be a good option. I'll also second Meghan's advice to draw on faith if you are so inclined. I know from personal experience that is a powerful way to sustain yourself during those periods of dark emotions. I'll certainly add you to my prayers. Hang on to you love for your wife and you will probably make it through this in good time.

Hugs,
Bridget

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o Dani,
My SO happened to see a pic on my phone, unlike your wife she had no prior knowledge of my CDing history.
She did have all the same immediate questions, and the feeling of being lied to.
All I could do was tell the truth, it was something I've been doing since I was a kid, I to this day have no idea why I do it.
I have been through long periods of time (like you, 20 years) where there was no dressing.
How could I come clean, and tell her, and explain it to her, when I don't fully understand it myself?
A few days after she found out, I asked if she wanted to see my "stuff". She said yes. So out everything came, a few eye rolls, but it was no big deal. Days later it was, would you like to see some pics? Her they are honey.... More eye rolls.
Next, email, and forum usage, you guessed it! More eye rolls!
Anyway, what she wanted was ...NO SECRETS. Trust her with everything, but tell her, you need time to get it all out. It's not as easy as just spilling your guts out, and probably better that she has time to absorb the smaller sized bits of info that you give her.
Regaining her trust will take time, just be consistent with your truthful answers.
Best of luck for a positive outcome.
Much Love,
Kristyn

[ReineD]

I want to express that crossdressing does have to do with gender identity -- it's an expression of a non-traditional male role. But it is a male role; Reine is completely correct that what you've described so far is not "clinical distress and impairment over being a male" which we mostly now agree to transsexualism. So, by my understanding to date you are transgender, you are not transsexual.

I just want to say that it is difficult for any of us at cd.com to make definitive pronouncements about whether a person is TG or TS. One, we cannot define a person we have not met based on a paragraph or two. And two, the definitions vary widely depending on a person's opinions as to what they mean ... even though opinions can be strong indeed. :)

For example, a lot of people use "TG" to mean "more than CD" but "not quite "TS" whereas in many places, "TG" is an umbrella term that includes CD and TS as well as DQ, genderqueer, androgynous, bigender, even femulator or crossdreamer, etc. And in the media, the term TG is used extensively to describe people who have or are transitioning including future SRS, or to describe the 4 year old children who tell their parents they are NOT the sex their parents believe them to be.

We have members here who adamantly state they are men, but who feel that the need to express themselves as women is a part of who they are. They will not agree that their needs change their male gender identity. Other members here are more comfortable thinking of themselves as gender fluid (my SO identifies this way), while other members will identify as women even though they live comfortably as male without body modification or transition. And just to give an idea on how widely the definitions vary for even TS, in some TSs' eyes, if a person is not willing to transition and live full time as a woman, then they are not fully TS because if they experienced clinical distress and impairment over being male they would not be able to comfortably live as male. I'm not defining anything here, but just stating that definitions do vary according to personal opinion.

For this reason, I stayed away from any word label (TG vs TS) and instead wrote about what it feels like inside. Is the person comfortable being male or not, no matter how enticing it is to dress.

So back to the OP (if you are looking for ways to communicate what you do to your wife), your wife might well go online on her own to do research. She may, depending on the sites she visits or the news articles she reads, define "TG" for herself as meaning a wish to transition and live full-time as a woman (if she reads stories about Bruce Jenner's transition for example, whom I believe identifies as Transgender). So just be sure to explain to her that the use of any of these terms is not consistent across the board and instead communicate to her how you plan on living and what you would actually like to do, whether this is dress part-time or full-time, come out to everyone or only to selected people, present mostly as a man to her or as a woman, etc. If she insists on labeling you, then you might ask her what word she feels comfortable using based on her current understanding of what it means combined with her understanding of what you want to do, and just use that.

[AngelaYVR]

There is no uniform way that women respond to these situations, just bear in mind that it is still very fresh for her. My wife initially told me (knowing that I wore panties and stockings at the time) that if it progressed to shoes she would leave me. Now I go out dressed with her blessing. I also never let these two worlds intersect, other than discussions about clothes. I don't want to impart false hope but certainly plenty of time is needed for your wife to digest this development.

[Kristy 56]

Dani,you've been given all good advice here,so nothing that I can really add here. I would just say to remain calm in your discussions and don't make promises that you can't keep. Also,don't forget what compromise means ,and remember that you won't get this settled in a night or two. Healing takes time. I wish you both all the best,as I've been there. :)

[Jenniferathome]

...Any advice or comments would be appreciated.

Dani, it seems you are doing what is needed already. Talk, talk, and more talk.

[kimdl93]

Well, it could have been a great deal worse, but you know that. Of course the conversation revisited the same topics repetitively...that's where she is stuck at the moment and it may take some time for her to work through the mental logjam. All you can do is what you have done. Do nothing more until she invites the conversation. In that conversation, make it all about her feelings...understanding the things that get in her way. It's not about convincing her...it's about letting her reach a level of comfort at her own speed.

[Beverley Sims]

Stay with the conversation without asking for anything further, talk about it without embellishment and things may improve...

This could take six months or longer.

[Allsteamedup]

You can solve two problems instantly.

Agree when your dress-up time is. It would appear for now that being dressed while your wife is outside the home leaves her with the difficulty of seeing you unexpectedly and knowing that while she was out (at work?) you were thinking entirely of someone else. Instead of taking an opportunity try a prearrangement (being careful to remove all traces of make-up and 'funny smells'; some removal products have a strange aroma.)

She has stated that she has to be number one in the relationship. Her self-esteem and identity as a woman have been dealt a terrible blow. How you repair this damage will take some time.

Be careful how you express what dressing means to you. Looking like a woman is one thing, but if you over-emphasise your female side or say that you want to feel like a woman, be prepared for some lengthy explanations. Your wife has expressed her feelings. She has to be number one.

[alwayshave]

... It was a confession of who I am. Yet after marriage it became a problem. I wonder why this happens. Do women and men blind themselves to aspects of their intended spouse that they don't like and think that all of the other positives will overcome this small negative. Perhaps we believe that we have the power to change people.

Consuelo, they old saying that women marry men hoping they can change them and men marry women hoping they will never change applies here.

[audreyinalbany]

I think everyone has given great advice. And, as always, communication is the key. The one thing that I found bothersome about Dani's post is that she said 20 years ago she promised she'd stop dressing. and she did. For 20 years. Now she's promised to stop dressing until her wife 'gets her head around it." Dani, I think you need to be careful about promising things to your wife. If she never gets her head around it, are you never going to dress again?

[pamela7]

sometimes wider frames are useful:

1. you're not having an affair
2. sexually many men stray outside of marriage
3. if sex drives are mismatched - mostly they are, men need an outlet be it masturbation or other women (or men)
4. it changes nothing in your manhood, in fact it makes a better man of you cos your feminine aspects get air time also

[cheryl reeves]

actually their is no number 1 in a relationship,it has to be a partnership for it too work. 27 yrs of marriage taught me that.

[jamie-upstate]

I asked if I could hug her and she said yes. We embraced and after a few minutes she decided to watch TV and go to bed. I came to bed later and she was asleep. I fell asleep, but woke up about 1 am and couldn't fall back to sleep. I laid quietly with hundreds of thoughts running through my head. About 4:30 she turned over and touched my hand. I responded with my own touch. This continued until we were embracing, kissing, and finally making love.

Afterward we held each other and talked some more, but kept repeating the same subjects. I promised her I would not dress again until she "wraps her head around it". While I am hopeful, I am still very much afraid our marriage may not recover.

I'll try to get a handle on things and lay low for a while.

Any advice or comments would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]

It sound like she love you. We all just have to move at a paces that others around us can handle. I know that my wife fears more about what if our frieds or family knew

[Dani0948]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. Your advice and comments as well as several years on the forum have at least given me a chance to save my marriage.

The last couple days have been a whirlwind. She told me about several times of tears at work and feeling really crushed. She "doesn't have anyone to talk to". I suggested counseling, which she sees as "her having a problem" and will not consider it. I told her she can always talk to me and she was ok with that. She is noticeably less agitated for long periods of time and then drops back into misery mode. There is a lot of hugging and kissing (mostly initiated by me, bit never rejected. When I mentioned doing some research on CD, she outright rejected it "doesn't want to know". We talked about the difference between acceptance and tolerance. She thinks she may be able to get to tolerance, but if not, the marriage may be doomed. She told me that she really could not see a life without me.

We went to my grandson's kindergarten graduation

I know this is very disjointed and confusing (my posting). I will try to keep you updated, but I think some small progress is being made.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

Well, if tolerance and a DADT arrangement is going to work for both of you then you have a good chance of keeping your marriage. Keep trying to let things move at her pace and just be there for her when she is feeling down. Letting her know you will always be committed to her will help a lot. Good luck Dani.

[Suzie Petersen]

Dani,

Your wifes reaction and the way she feel right now fits well with what many others feel in the same situation. My wife had a very similar reaction at one point.

A classic situation is that right after a reveal, how ever it comes about, the CD has a feeling of significant relief. Huge weight off the shoulders, finally sharing this with someone and no longer alone with this.
The wife on the other hand feel completely lost and unable to deal with what just happened. Until now, she likely had a feeling of safety and security in her marriage, her sexuality, and her general feelings about herself. She had a circle of frieds, family and colleagues whom she could go to in times of trouble or concern. Part of her safety net was that she had people she could talk to about anything that bothered or scared her. Now .. she realizes that this is something she cannot talk to others aboyut without risk! She feels completey alone.

She need someone, other than you, to talk to.

- Suzie

[Suzanne F]

Dani
Breathe! There is hope. I think the fact that she knew something about it and married you is a good sign. I think the apology from you should be centered on failing to trust her with your issue. Not the cross dressing itself. Give her time and space to form questions about what it means for both of you. Remember that you both may be in a different place as time passes. Her feelings are probably not permanent. It doesn't all have to be worked out today!
Hugs
Suzanne

[giuseppina]

... I suggested counseling, which she sees as "her having a problem" and will not consider it.

In my experience, counselling is more about finding new and more workable coping mechanisms than solving problems. That said, maybe she is saying, "Not right now, I'm not ready."

One thing I don't remember seeing in the discussion above is her own account on CD.com. I'm sure the genetic ladies would be willing to provide support. Acceptance of CDing is not a prerequisite for joining the GG forum as far as I know.

[Megan Nicole]

Same happened to me last winter. Wife came home earlier then expected, dryer just went off, she walked in and started unloading & wouldn't ya know two strange pairs of panties and a sports bra among the items. She came at me hard and fast with questions & I wasn't prepared to discuss, especially with the teenage kids lerking near by. I told her the items were just some things I had that needed washed. She looked at me strangely for a while and I went to fixing supper. I was super stressed and my blood pressure must have been at boiling point. Not much was said for an hour or so, but by the end of the evening conversation had gone back to a normal tone. Nothing has been said since that evening, but now I know she knows. Our relationship is as good or better than ever & I haven't stopped dressing/underdressing. I'm just a little more careful about washing and drying. Good thing I didn't have a big load of my clothes in that night or she would have really freaked out. I figure this might resurface at some point, or maybe not. Until then I'll just keep being me.

Meg

[JamieG]

Dani, I am sorry to hear how much this is hurting both of you. Keep talking. You may find that you also have to address the issue broken trust. Yes, technically, you didn't lie to her, but you kept a big secret from her for a long time. Perhaps she feels foolish for not knowing sooner, or maybe she now sees you as some master manipulator. Unfortunately, when you are discovered (as opposed to outing yourself) there's also the question of "When, if ever, were you going to tell me?" You need to talk about these issues with her, and see where her head is at. Give her a chance to work through her feelings. It is critical that you be totally honest from here on out and that you go out of your way to demonstrate how important she is to you. I wish both of you all the best!

[kimdl93]

Your wife's reluctance to seek the help of a counselor is a fairly common attitude and so unfortunate. Counseling isn't necessarily treatment for a mental disorder, although it can be. Its purpose often, as my therapist put it long ago, is to help a person learn to accept reality. Clearly, difficulty accepting a new and troubling reality is not a mental disorder, but it's consequences can be equally grave.

Right now your wife seems to be struggling with what she perceives as a loss. Those behaviors are typical of grief. But in reality, all that has been lost is an illusion. You're still there, still the person you have always been. If she cannot manage to work that out on her own, and pride or mistaken ideas about therapy discourage her from getting professional support, then she runs the risk of precipitating a very real loss.

[char GG]

Kimld93 has a good point. The trust is broken, she may be wondering what else is not being said.

[Dani0948]

Part of my earlier post got cut off . I wanted to say that We went to my grandson's kindergarten graduation together and had several hours in the car to talk. Her major point was that we (mostly me) need to rebuild the marriage and get back to the heady days of 31 years ago. We just booked a bed & breakfast overnight together and are both really looking forward to going away in July.

Last night we talked about so many things I can't even remember it all (not just CD). We once again started out hugging and kissing and progressed to a terrific evening of love making (not just my opinion). This morning she told me that for the first time since the discovery, she woke up NOT mad at me (progress???).

She still wants to put CD out of her perception and for now only wants the male side of me.

Again - Thanks for all the support

[Dani0948]

It's hard to believe a week has passed since the discovery. It has been wonderful for my male side. We cannot keep our hands off each other. Every minute we're together is filled with hugging, kissing and beyond. WE decided to suspend any dressing activities until after our getaway. She tells me that she is feeling LESS disturbed by CD but still has a long way to go. I told her again that she is setting the pace and there is no rush. I love this woman.