Perhaps "it" runs in the family?

[MissTee]

My oldest daughter was talking to my wife a few mintues ago on the phone. Seems my 10 yr old grandson has shown a proclivity for his mom's clothes and had been sneaking them out of her room to wear. Among the missing include makeup and clothes and shoes. Daughter said he told her he likes wearing them. She can't get him to stop. My wife tells my daughter she may have a crossdresser on her hands, and that's not good.

My wife knows I dress and is supportive. That she declares my grandson's dressing tendency as "not good" has me in a real WTF frame of mind. Thoughts?

[cheryl reeves]

it means he is going to be bullied.

[Teresa]

MissTee,
If you understand your own dressing enough to explain it to others, ask your wife and daughter if they'd like you to talk to your grandson .

At ten I was well into it , through circumstances and early testosterone I was already wired never to change.
Once sex has come into the equation he's not going to stop all you can do is guide him to prevent him going OTT ! Last thing he wants is the start of feeling guilty especially starting secondary school . I didn't get bullied but became the source of spectacle in the showers because I was one of the first to grow pubic hair, I felt so bad I cut it off !

[Persephone]

I have at least one young relative who is TG, has gone full-time, just started hormones, and is scheduling SRS.

Your spouse's response does suggest some deeper frustration and, certainly, most of us can understand that. But, like Teresa suggests, perhaps you can be of help to your daughter and to your grandson. Keep in mind that at age 10 it could still just be natural curiosity, although thee fact that he told his mom that he "likes wearing them" may suggest otherwise.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[gailbridges]

My oldest daughter was talking to my wife a few mintues ago on the phone. Seems my 10 yr old grandson has shown a proclivity for his mom's clothes and had been sneaking them out of her room to wear. Among the missing include makeup and clothes and shoes. Daughter said he told her he likes wearing them. She can't get him to stop. My wife tells my daughter she may have a crossdresser on her hands, and that's not good.

My wife knows I dress and is supportive. That she declares my grandson's dressing tendency as "not good" has me in a real WTF frame of mind. Thoughts?

Of course it's "not good" to your wife. Being supportive is not the same as 'liking' your hobby or being enthusiastic about it. She probably tolerates and puts on a happy face for you. Seriously, have you forgotten all the angst YOU have gone through in your life? I know times are changing (somewhat) and it's slowly becoming cool to 'come out', but we've all grown up with some fairly rigid stereotypes, and have developed expectations of how our children/grandchildren will grow up, and I'm sure she doesn't want grandson picked on, or hurt. And I'm sure she had expectations of her grandson being more of a typical boy, and doing typical boy things. it's a reasonable expectation.

And while some wives are supportive of our hobby, I believe it's a blow to many wife's egos if/when they see us dressed up as women.
(yeah yeah, I know. Our femme side came along way before we met them. But that doesn't matter to them.) When women wear mannish clothing, they still look feminine. They aren't TRYING to appear to be male. But it's not the same for us. We are actually trying to appear feminine, and more ladylike.

Have you asked her about her frame of mind?
Don't be surprised if she asks you to find a way to help grandson stop. In a way I wish I never found this. I could've put the angst and anxiety to better use. I'm sure I'd be a millionaire by now.

Gail

[Rachelakld]

My thoughts are to let him know he is not alone and not a freak.
While we have one boy at my kids school who wears a dress to school and is accepted (kids are 16 & 17), how it will play out in to workplaces with people of our generation I don't know so I see two options
1) they can go hard, take some abuse (depending on the culture of the area)
2) keep it in the family

But as I said, make sure he knows he is not the only one.

[pamela7]

I'm sure "it" runs in the family, seems though the lid of non-real-acceptance by your wife has reared its head though.

Remembering back, while my father did not CD (nothing in remaining effects), he dressed very bright, peacock-like, as I have generally done in male mode all my life, and now my eldest son has sported a dress at Uni - my youngest son has even a facebook video of him fully CD dancing/miming a song "girls just wanna have fun".
As for the TG M2F stepdaughter ...

PS talking is good, definitely speak to him, don't ask permission!!!!!

xxx

[Teresa]

Pamela,
I don't think that is good advice, talking to him without asking first ! It should be discussed first what is going to be said otherwise there may be accusations of too much encouragement . Neither wife or daughter are totally accepting judging by the comments, we all know that the 10 year old will more than likely continue to try and CD and no one is going to alter what this brain is telling him he just needs good guidance !

[kimdl93]

I'd have to share your concern about. Your wife's comment. It reveals a deep seated notion that there is something wrong with her grandson. Both she and your daughter need to spend some time getting better informed. It's them you should talk with.

[melanie206]

"It" might but that's not what's important in this case. Definitely do not take it upon yourself to talk to him without his parents consent. The worst thing for the kid is negativity and rejection. We have all heard the tragic stories. If you want to contribute to the situation start researching for info that will help your daughter deal with this. In particular, look for a counselor with experience in this. You should not intervene unless someone mentions "a cure".

[Alyssa Lane]

I have a nephew who recently started doing the same, i have found that out from my mother, that was a few years ago when he was 14 i think. My mother was saying how it was like me, maybe genetics mix differently or just society how we men see women and envy how good they look.

[Marcia Blue]

I agree with a lot that has been said. I do think a ten year old needs guidance and acceptance. We all remember feeling all alone, thinking we were the only ones, that had this condition. I do believe a united front from those in his life is far better than mixed signals from family members. Society already approaches transgender people as "confused".

We all know how middle school, can be very hard on none conforming individuals. A little support from family, even if it is closeted to just those who need to know. Can prevent a period depression or self guilt that is unwarranted. I hope your family can work out a united level, of acceptance and communication.

[NicoleScott]

Talk to the boy about what? It's OK, it's normal, when the boy's mom and grandmother think it's not? How is the boy supposed to resolve that?
I'm with Kim on this - it's the boy's mom that needs to have the serious discussion. The grandmother, too, but it's the parent that has the authority and responsibility.

[RADER]

You might find this interesting;
My brother transitioned completely about 20+ years ago.
And here I am a CDer.
Rader

[Ina Girdle]

MissTee;

Whether he will be a CD or a TG, or just a curious kid. Please do not let him be burdened with years of guilt & shame. For me (& many of us here??), I carried it as a monkey on my back and lived in denial until I found this community, and I also was at a point in my life where I was comfortable with who I am. Hopefully you and your wife can help guide your daughter in accepting and giving your grandson the loving understanding we all wish we received when we started down this road.

Good luck and God Bless!
Ina

[LucyNewport]

I come from a long line of really femme men, including one known as the local "queen", so I think it does run in some families. Honestly I do worry that my sons will get what I have. It's been a long, hard road of self discovery and acceptance - as yet incomplete. I'd rather they not go through all that. So I can see where your wife is coming from to some degree.

All that being said though, if my kids did show signs of gender variance, it's not like I would love them any less. They would need all the help and guidance they could get to navigate this condition. The worst feeling in the world is alienation. I worry that with parents who are hostile to the trans that can easily be the result.

I would talk to the parents first. (The child is probably too young to understand a message that runs counter to what his parents say.) Maybe try to explain to them that while it may be out of the ordinary to wear cross gender clothes, it is not debilitating. Many successful people do it. You can hold yourself up as a positive role model!

[JenniferR771]

He should know he is not alone.
And he should be accepted--if possible--avoiding the society-shaming that happened in my generation. It can lead to internal guilt. Disapproval by his parents can be a powerful negative influence on his life, potentially leading to withdrawal and school problems.

[CynthiaD]

I found a stash of female undergarments in my father's car once. He had an excuse for having them, but in retrospect, his excuse sounded like a lot of the ones I've heard here.

[Kate Simmons]

Perhaps, but in my own family I have not seen "it" yet other than myself. :)

[Isabella Ross]

Somebody should offer some guidance, but regarding the comment from your wife, I'm not sure I'd jump to hasty conclusions. She could have meant many things: for example, she could have been verbalizing her fears that your grandson may be bullied, or go through years of angst and frustration trying to decode himself, etc. I'm not so sure that it was intended as a slight against us; seems more likely that she realizes from experience that coming to terms with GID is no picnic.

[Dianne S]

I'm convinced that in many cases there's a biological explanation for transgender brains (and I include cross-dressers in the "transgender" spectrum.) So I don't think it's much of a stretch to suppose there may be a genetic component to this.

I think you should talk to your daughter (not your grandson) and see if there are any local resources for parents of gender non-conforming kids. He could just be going through a phase, or he could be heading towards being a crossdresser or he could be transsexual. But whatever he is, he needs the love and support of his family and your daughter can probably benefit from resources to help deal with a potentially transgender child.

I think the most important thing a parent can do for his or her child is to let the child live authentically and accept him or her.

Edit: I know your wife put you in a WTF frame of mind, but I'd ignore that. This is about your grandchild, not you, so let that slide.

[MissTee]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and feedback. I am still processing my wife's comment. My wife had another chat with my daughter today. My daughter is clearly concerned. I sat nearby listening, but pretending not to listen. Both were saying they are convinced it is no longer adolescent curiosity, but something more. Neither was sure what "more" is, but it can't be good either.

Tomorrow I have some time to vet my wife thoughts in a private conversation. Again, she seems OK with me but that my grandson is doing "it" seems to rattle her. Will keep you posted.

[nvlady]

I am convinced it runs in the family. I am CD, my father wasn't CD, but had a different deviation, one of my daughters is bi, and who knows, my brother might be on this forum.

[Dianne S]

Neither was sure what "more" is, but it can't be good either.

Just curious: "It can't be good either" --- are those their words or yours?

Your grandson is who he is. He will need support, not judgment, from his parents. They need to tread carefully.

[Meghan4now]

Hmm how much to say....

First off, yes I believe there may be genetic bias in Some cases.

Second, my son at 16 told his psychologist (many non gender/sexuality issues) he wanted to transition. However there were no other tendencies or activities that would lead me to believe that was what he really wanted. I think a lot of his input came from Internet sites, especially Japanese ******* Animae. We did not deny his expression but rather refocused on his bigger motivational issues. Over time, (now 19)he has come to realize that isn't what he really wanted. He does express that he is gay, which may or may not be how he will identify for life. I've told him my thoughts on the matter, which is that that's a tough road to travel, I want the best for him, and that he will be loved regardless. I have not really come out to him, but gave him some clues, including sharing some of what I know about the subject. Of course being a teenager, he thinks he knows so much more about it than me. Typical! I bite my tongue on this one.

But that's my job to do. He is my son.

[MissTee]

Just curious: "It can't be good either" --- are those their words or yours?

Their's. It was after a long diatribe of, ". . . if he does {this}" or ". . . if he starts to do {that}." Sounded like they were trying to define the line that, once crossed, would remove all doubt.

[Lori Kurtz]

I don't think you should take the "not good" comment as a personal rejection of some kind. If someone had said to me a few decades ago, "I'm afraid maybe my son is gay," I might well have responded that that is "not good." But I certainly wouldn't have meant that as a rejection of any particular person, or of gay people in general. I would have meant that the person faces a strong possibility of hostility and rejection and discrimination: a difficult life. Today, I think I would be much less likely to make such a remark, because we have progressed a lot as a society, and gays are much more likely to be able to live openly with a same-sex partner, and to be warmly accepted in many communities in most areas of the U.S. For a person who wants to be open about his crossdressing or about being TS, there are still a lot of obstacles; gays can accurately say, "We've come a long way, baby," but that's not quite so true for us. We're making progress, but slowly.

[Laura912]

About two weeks ago NBC news featured two families who dealt with young children who were transgendered and handled the subject well. You might use those as a basis for some discussion. A family therapist who is well versed in this area might be in your futures.

[Pat]

"Not good" might just mean what it sounds like -- i.e. not good is not bad, it just means an area of his life his parents were assuming didn't need attention now does. Look at the stories on this forum and ask yourself is it good or not good that he may be one of us? The excellent news is that we understand more about crossdressers and transsexuals than we ever have, there is more acceptance than there ever has been.

Since he's repeating the behavior it's probably not something to ignore. You have to find out if he's transsexual or a crossdresser or something else. You have to make adjustments early so he can have a happy rest-of-his-life. The first priority to me would be making sure he understands it's not a problem; it's not a failing; it's not something to be "corrected." It's more like being left-handed -- not the same as most of the population, never will be, but nothing wrong. But you do have to make compensating effort; there will be fewer role models. Tell him he's OK. See if you can find a counsellor who knows something about this. Get him his own clothes.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Think of it this way: Life is easier if one is cisgender and gender conforming. Being trans and/or non-gender conforming is harder and can be a serious burden for someone to have to carry through life. It is like being born with a deformity or a disability. It isn't "wrong" to have a deformation, and it isn't "wrong" to have a disability, but at the same time it a burden that a parent would never wish their child to have to deal with. In that sense, it isn't a "good" thing, it isn't "wrong", but it isn't "good", and I can understand why she would not want to have her child suffer through all the difficulties being trans can bring. (I speak from experience, as my mother loves and accepts me, but she feels bad that it is something I have to deal with.)

[Leah R.]

IMO, I agree with a few others that the "not good" comment meant she was looking to the future. Is he going to be bullied or go through life confused or worse hate himself because of clothing he likes to wear. My mom whom I'm very close with, I feel that she will not accept my crossdressing. So depending on how your daughter spoke about it could also be the reason for not good.

I mean to the few people I've shared my crossdressing with their first question... Are you gay? Maybe your daughter thinks that and is scared for her son. I think if your wife knows you CD and your daughter knows they can get you to help. I bet your wife know the hardships you went through when you were younger and sees the news stories about kids being bullied about this. I think you could offer guidance with permission so he doesn't get embarrassed so, like others have said, he isn't alone and can talk to understanding rational people about what he feels

[sometimes_miss]

I'm sure "it" runs in the family
I think it's simply more of a coincidence. Remember, the odds aren't that great against it. One in forty of males is a crossdresser. It's just that most people don't know who is and who isn't. Even very young boys learn very quick that we're not supposed to wear girls clothes, and will be treated badly if we do. So we keep it hidden very well. When you get one who doesn't get the very stern 'don't ever dress like a girl' message from the rest of his family, well then he's going to keep doing it and the family may get upset. But I believe that even when it's discovered at an early age, nothing is going to change the feelings. I can't be sure. We don't have documentation of men who crossdressed when young and then stopped forever. So there's no way to know if those men exist, as they're even LESS likely to tell anyone they ever did it than we are.

[Dianne S]

One in forty of males is a crossdresser.

Really? Do you have a citation for that?

I live in a city whose population is about a million, so 500k males which means 12,500 crossdressers where I live. We have one CD social group and it has about 100 members, which would mean only one in 125 crossdressers would know about the group and be interested in joining. That sounds very, very low to me.

I expect you're too high by a factor of about 5 or 10.

[pamela7]

even 1% of 1M people is still 5000 males, just like this forum with 10-20 times as many observers as folks logged in, and with a massive % hidden in the closet, the simple maths are backing fear. Yes there are 4960 male CD'ers in your city who are too scared to admit it publicly.

[CONSUELO]

Whatever the "not good" comment meant, the focus should be on protecting the child. I was dressing a lot before I was 10 years old and it was very sexual also. I was discovered by my sister and later by my Mother and that taught me to "go underground". Consequently I carried a heavy burden for many, many years. I don't wish for that to happen to this child. I have friends in NZ whose son loved to play with his mother's makeup and clothes and they just let him be to find his own way. Yes the parents have to protect their child and they need to learn a lot about cross dressing and gender issues but I hope they do not make this young life miserable.
What would the response have been if the daughter had said her child was showing a tendency to be homosexual. A young child who identifies as homosexual would be treated with care in liberal societies like that in the USA. Why would the response to a child who identifies or acts as a cross dresser be any different.

I feel for the young boy. He is probably having a lovely time and thinks that what he is doing is just natural, harmless and it feels right for him. My fear is that someone will accidentally bring that safe and natural feeling world crashing down.

[Candice Mae]

I wondered if any of my family was TG, I thought that they might confide in me but no one has. None of my male family members talk to me about my transition they seam uncomfortable with it, and my female family members there are a few that are interested but we're past the 100+ questions phase.

[sometimes_miss]

Really? Do you have a citation for that?
I don't do this for a living. I have, however, read everything I could get my hands on regarding gender abberations since 1970. And about 2.5% is what was generally found by the researchers until I stopped with the books back in the late 90's. Problems with your calculations: You're using your one city as your example, and you're using your own experience as if it's indicative of the behavior of the general population, and you assume that all crossdressers seek out others. They don't; in fact, quite a few are probably very closeted conservative religious guys who are mortified at what they feel compelled to do, and would probably never mention it to anyone. I didn't rely on any of that; rather, I relied upon research by the leading psychologists/sexologists who decided to investigate sex and gender disorders, those of the late 20th century's research. While it may not be entirely accurate, they did their best to try to figure it out by objectively collecting as much data as they could in the limited time they had. Kinsey I think is still the biggest one, so you might like to check his information, but it's probably going to be in books and not necessarily online, though perhaps someone has scanned his material and maybe you can find pdf's, but I sort of doubt it. A lot of these studies were done before the web existed. However, I don't believe that the incidence of crossdressing will have changed, any more than any other gender variances do. Like I said, I didn't study this to help the world's crossdressers figure themselves out, so I didn't collect data about it all. I studied it to figure myself out, and so after reading something, I dumped it into the library bins, as I'm in the closet and didn't want any literature lying around that might give someone ideas about me. Feel free to do your own research, and believe in whatever statistics you feel satisfying. But it helps to deal with as many facts as possible, rather than guess based on what you see or hear.

[Dianne S]

You're using your one city as your example, and you're using your own experience as if it's indicative of the behavior of the general population, and you assume that all crossdressers seek out others.

A sample of 1,000,000 people in a relatively liberal city is probably large enough to fairly accurately represent the population in Canada, I would say. And no, of course not all crossdressers seek out others, but I have a hard time believing that only 1 in 125 do. I would put the figure closer to 1 in 20 to 1 in 40 which would put my percentage at between about 0.5% and 1% of the male population. Like you, I have no hard data, but I'm just going by my instincts.

[Launa]

Really? Do you have a citation for that?

I live in a city whose population is about a million, so 500k males which means 12,500 crossdressers where I live. We have one CD social group and it has about 100 members, which would mean only one in 125 crossdressers would know about the group and be interested in joining. That sounds very, very low to me.

I expect you're too high by a factor of about 5 or 10.

My math sucks but if theres about 7 billion people in the world and 1 in 40 males is a CD/TG in one form or another then that means there should be 175 million CD/TG folks out there world wide.

Come, come, come out of the closet! LOL

[Erika Lyne]

...it's the parent that has the authority and responsibility.

Nicole said it best. It is the parents' responsibility. Miss Tee, what you have not mentioned in this thread is if you are out with your daughter. Obviously, your wife knows of your CDing but if your daughter does not this would be a huge double-whammie.

I'm going to play a bit of Devil's Advocate here. Your wife may also have been speaking in a double entendre. She may have been referring it, as you interpreted it, as "not good" because of the frustrations in her life with your CDing, about her misgivings, about her pains. However, her being a mother and grandmother, she could have been speaking out of concern for your grandson's future life of emotional and identity issues that she is all too familiar with because of the pain you've shared with her over the years. Leaving a comment out there like,"That is not good." allows her to let the other person steer the conversation with her actually one step ahead of them. A conversational chess match, if you will. She knows the game, how to play the pieces and the only variable is what the other player's next move will be,"Will they move here or there. Either way, I know my next move."

I'm not usually an optimist or a conspiracy theorist. Rather, I look for other options, interpretations and methods to produce desired results. I think your best strategic move would best be played by allying yourself with your wife. Your grandson may have a very valuable asset if you can help support him in this difficult aspect of his life. With your wife, I would suggest coffee and conversation about what she said and why. Try to plan what you'll say, ask important questions and predict her answer . Then, plan for the opposite response. Just do it in male mode, the knight is a very valuable player.

-E

[Jazzy Jaz]

My question also is whether or not your daughter knows. I agree with alot of what Erika says and i like the chess metaphor. In your wifes position rather than saying its not good i think she could build a foundation of acceptance with your daughter by expressing her own acceptance of the issue. Like Erika I think your first step is talking with your wife and finding out why she said what she did. Hopefully the two of you can be on the same or similiar page. With this alliance and my limited info on your fam life I would suggest the two of you strategize how best to come out to your daughter. I think your grandson isnt the only one who could benefit from knowing that its ok and theres many others out there who do it. And bullying or not you survived and you can be an example to her that things can turn out fine. Your kind of like the queen on the chess board, you have many moves. With your understanding of tg you can help her understand that its not going away and maybe help her learn to be accepting and supportive. The end game would be to have direct guidance with your grandson in whatever way is most comfortable for him, even if its just simply knowing that you are like him and hes not alone. This is my opinion from the outside so feel free to take the gold and leave the sand.

[Stephanie47]

I think the vast majority of cross dressers and their loved ones accepts the premise that life would be a lot less stressful, if one were not a cross dresser. I have a friend, whose grandson has just come out as a transsexual. Life for him would be much better if he were not. I think your wife is expressing her belief your grandson will have to deal with a lot of turmoil. Turmoil within his self, and, turmoil dealing with society. And society includes finding a woman who is supportive.

[donnalee]

I think that your wife spoke out of a loving concern for her grandson, but maybe didn't phrase it in the best way. Dressing is a pretty big complication in someone's life and does not make it any easier, Since she has personal knowledge of this, of course she's concerned. The only way to find out her true feelings is to talk to her and since it obviously bothers you, maybe volunteer your help.

[Beverley Sims]

A bit like it's okay for strangers to dress, but not one of the family.

It is an attitude that many other people have.

[sometimes_miss]

A bit like it's okay for strangers to dress, but not one of the family.
The NIMBY force is strong in most families!

[sometimes_miss]

Like you, I have no hard data, but I'm just going by my instincts.
That's just it. I'm NOT going by my instincts. I'm going by what I read, and I'm confident that if you do the research, you'll find the same thing that I did (and I don't mean a google search, because that will bring up all kinds of poorly done surveys that don't reflect the general population). Read the books by the psychologists out there, and those who took the time to do their research correctly. I didn't make any of this up. If I went by my instincts, I would have said the incidence of crossdressing was more like one in ten thousand because in everyday experience, we simply never see anyone do it. We're simply a very hard group to pin down to any number.