Is this the new Jenneration?

[Ilsa]

Now that Caitlyn has publicized her transition will we be seeing more of the same? Will more well knowns be proclaiming that they are CDs or even better and showing themselves at public functions or will they be discreet. I'd hate to see this become a circus that was only performed in the interest of publicity from a celebrities point of view. I question whether this would be beneficial to the transgender community in the long run. If it were done in a discreet manner that sustained awareness of the trials and tribulations of the transgender community I would be inclined to accept it. However, if it were sensationalized, I'd think it would be more harmful.

I do admit that it has brought up more awareness of the transgender community; whether or not this is a good thing or it can be sustained to our advantage will remain to be seen.

As always,

Ilsa

[Kate Simmons]

As Ceri told me in another place, the Media is trying to make a sale. Just note what wonders makeup does on the VF cover.It's the same with me really when I make over. Pics we saw last week ( of Bruce) didn't look that great. I just can't get over the fact that when a celebrity transitions, it's a big deal and they seem to be extolled for it. When a regular person transitions it seems to be just the opposite. I feel good for Caitlyn/Bruce but as to whether this will help us as an overall community, time will tell.:)

[Adriana Moretti]

hopefully the vanilla public at least gets educated a bit.......I would like to see us all have our OWN day...like make June 1rst " Coming Out Day" or something ...and once a year we invade EVERYWHERE in LARGE numbers. I would like to see Caitlyn speak at Keystone, First Event or SCC....THAT would convince me SHE is really trying to change the world!

[bimini1]

If Caitlyn stays the path and keeps that same energy she had during the Sawyer piece I believe she can neutralize a lot of the sensational aspect the media will try to pimp. I think this is the tipping point.
It's an interesting time in the world, in America. I didn't live thru it but from what I gather about the 1960's what we are seeing today has that same flavor, vibe. Lots of revolutions underway in the culture. Folks are standing up to stuff, be it police brutality, bigotry.

[OCCarly]

Will Smith's son Jaden just recently did the genderqueer thing and wore a prom gown to his high school prom. I say the closet door is not just busted down, but is in the process of being trampled by folks on their way out.

[PaulaQ]

What makes you think the heavy makeup wasn't before the big reveal? She's had FFS, and I'd wondered if guy mode wasn't the big makeup job at the point of the sawyer interview. We aren't talking about someone with typical resource constraints.

[Jennifer-GWN]

My initial reaction was.. The pressure is now one... General public (my public to some degree in my coming out in the next couple of weeks at work) will expect such a dramatic change in looks. I love Caitlyn is doing and support her cause but there's a tad bit of I can't compete with that feeling knowing full well I shouldn't need to. Guess a bit if insecurity coming through as much as my confidence in myself remains high and strong.

Cheers... Jennifer

[flatlander_48]

hopefully the vanilla public at least gets educated a bit.......I would like to see us all have our OWN day...like make June 1rst " Coming Out Day" or something ...and once a year we invade EVERYWHERE in LARGE numbers. I would like to see Caitlyn speak at Keystone, First Event or SCC....THAT would convince me SHE is really trying to change the world!

National Coming Out Day (NCOD)
October 11

DeeAnn

[gailbridges]

RE: Caitlyn Jenner

Cracks me up how there is a certain contingent out there in the straight world that is "sick & tired" of this story already?
Really?
There's been ONE interview and now today with the VF cover.
Really? TWO days worth of stories and you are sick and tired.
They just sound trans-phobic to me.

There are a lot of people out there who don't know what to make of this story. It's challenging people's perceptions on a whole new level. Most of them were just getting used to Rock Hudson and Billie Jean King being outed.

It might take a couple of generations for widespread acceptance. But don't count on it. Black people in the US have been free since 1865, and we still don't live in post-racial America.

But still, Caitlyn has made a HUGE step forward for the T community.

Something just occurred to me: Caitlyn's pics are.... well, HOT!
There are probably a lot of confused straight guys getting boners over her pictures and wondering if they are gay. Be prepared for some ugly public backlash.

[Melissa in SE Tn]

Bimini is right on target. The best is yet to come

[irene9999]

I think it will certainly educate a lot off people on the issue, which is always good

[IMkrystal]

It has been exactly one year since the Time Magazine cover " "The Transgender Tipping Point" Like other minorities change will continue to roll downhill from here.




Thank-you Caitlyn! :ch:

[LexiMay]

Even if this only makes people more aware itll be a good thing.

[Beverley Sims]

Like a roller coaster, highs and lows.

The flavour of the month is on a high at the moment, 2 steps forward and one step back is on the advance, the roller coaster is on the peak of it's travel, it is a slow news week.......And so it goes on. It will all level out again and then we can speculate with a little more accuracy.

[Lauri K]

This is great for getting the word out and educating others, so much work to do so little time to get where we need to be so folks can live their lifes as who they really are or feel like they are.

I am going to be optimistic here, and say better times for us are indeed ahead......but much to be done in the interim

[Lena]

I'll probably get chastised for my comments again but my opinion is that it is naive to believe more "celebrities" would come out now "because it's cool" or because the media pushes it.

I wish the tg communities would be more focused on her and her situation instead of thinking "how is this going to affect ME?

Her coming out publicly is a big deal as far as a teaching tool. It's reached a demographic/generation that's avoided involvement. Her generation is currently the most vocal anti-lgbt demographic and they are now forced with facing one of their own going through this. It's someone they can relate too. The younger generation will not be affected much. Must young adults don't know who he was our who she is.

More power to the guy. He's suffered long enough. I hope she enjoys the rest of her life!

I wish the coming out picture wasn't so revealing. It is the stereotypical cd wearing age/societal inappropriate choice. ....just my opinion, I would like to have seen something more conservative that people wouldn't see as extreme

[kimdl93]

Those of a certain age remember Christine Jorgenson. Those my age remember Rene Richards. More recently, Chaz Bono...and several notable military people...whose names escape me. All garnered a lot of attention, some of it salacious, but all of it shed some light on the transsexual experiences.

But I don't think any public figure ever tackled transition so late in life as Caitlyn Jenner. Her story is remarkable because she has lived a carefully closeted life for so long. Perhaps, despite the certain amount of voyeurism involved, her coming out will shed even more light and garner more compassion for those who have lived a similar life.

[msniki48]

I agree Gail,

there was no way for her to transition in private, So being up front takes the paparazzi right out of it. I just hope there is more empathy than ridicule.

I think it will be a learning experience.. at least I hope so.

hugs

niki

[shawnsheila]

My wife was really amazed by Caitlyn's transformation and i think it made her feel better about me. She told me she was amazed at how beautiful she looks. I wanted to tell her thats what I want really bad but I'll slowly let her know when I think she is ready for that.

[AnnieMac]

My own first reactions to the VF Cover Photo Of Bruce aka Caitlyn, is that this should make any GG (and perhaps us posers, too) feel really good about ourselves! Hey we all know how hard this is to do - to look as attractive and natural, and beautiful, not only as a GG but as males trying to look female as most of us here are too. So obviously not only is this an incredible professional make-up project, it's also an incredible Photoshop retouching project as well. No real woman could ever hope to look like this everyday in their natural lives. So we can't possible either! Oh sure a lot of us here are quite lovely, but nothing that approaches what fashion mags and films can make some look like.
OK now is the time for GG's to get even and let us CDing posers have it between the eyes - "OK y'all wanted to look and be like women, so now deal with what we have had to for so long" It's Ok you know we deserve it -:). The only other thing I have seen that approaches this are those websites with incredible before and after pictures of women with no make-up and then with a professionally done look (and probably some photoshop too)
So why should this make us all feel good? Because we know these images of beauty are just smoke and mirrors. Naturally pretty GGs, or a CD that can pull of a reasonable attractive look for real, get my "we're not worthy, we're not worthy" bow. My admiration goes out to you all. Ok Let me hear you say an Amen Sisters! . . .as Annie gets down from the pulpit!

[Rogina B]

Most all transitioners will never have the advantages that Caitlyn Jenner has...She can afford professional makeup every morning,noon and evening ! I am not sure that her transition will really help those that are struggling to exist and being accepted as human beings..

[Kate Simmons]

Even Cindy Crawford once said something like: "You would look this good too with 5 hours of hair and makeup." There ya go. :)

[sometimes_miss]

I'd hate to see this become a circus
It's already a circus. Read any of the message boards and you'll find a huge number of people who are horrified at the idea that a freak is among them, in the news for all their children to see. It brings out the nutcases like crap draws flies. And the fact that he looks pretty damn good in a lot of the pictures in the press annoys the conservative block even more, all worried that they're going to get 'fooled' into finding a 'guy in a dress' attractive. We're seeing the reality of how many people out there hate us just for being who we are. It's not pretty. Don't get me wrong; I support Caitlyn 100%. But I wonder if she'll reach the breaking point. Gotta wonder what the knuckle draggers in show business are all saying behind her back at this point. I guess it'll all come out eventually.


I would like to see Caitlyn speak at Keystone, First Event or SCC....THAT would convince me SHE is really trying to change the world!
She already said in her interview that she came out in public to change the world. I don't think she owes anyone becoming a public spokeswoman 'for the cause'. She's already way out there due to the family's TV show (now isn't that an interesting play on words!).

Something just occurred to me: Caitlyn's pics are.... well, HOT! There are probably a lot of confused straight guys getting boners over her pictures and wondering if they are gay. Be prepared for some ugly public backlash.
Not just from homophobic guys. There are going to be a whole lot of women out there who are going to be REALLY pissed off that a 65 year old MAN looks way better than she does. Caitlyn is just proving once again that the same drive that got an olympic gold medal still burns hot when it comes to pursuing a goal. Even at 65. And still a role model for the rest of us. Maybe that's what scares the homophobes out there so much: That a 'fairy' is so much more driven, and successful than they ever will be, and it makes them look like HUGE failures by comparison. When she had her TV interview, the days after one of the guys at work said something derogitory about his coming out, to which I mentioned, 'You win any decathlons recently?' Then he changed his argument to,' Yeah but that was a long time ago before he was a fag'. To which I responded, 'Well, did you win any decathlons a long time ago before you became a fag?' I could see he wanted to hit me, but I'm way bigger so that saved me; besides, it got a whole lot of laughs from the girls we work with, we love to poke holes at his attempts at being macho, he's one of those pretenders that's tough in a group but quickly shuts up when alone. But it just goes to show how all the knuckle draggers think. They can't stand it when other people succeed.

Thank-you Caitlyn! :ch:
^ Absolutely!
I have to wonder, after this, how many others will think to themselves, Hmmm. It CAN be done, and done well. Well maybe if I..........

I wish the coming out picture wasn't so revealing. It is the stereotypical cd wearing age/societal inappropriate choice
See, that's another thing we have to get over; that old people should avoid trying to appear sexy and attractive. Why? Why should everyone's goal be to look like their grandparents did? It drives me nuts when women chop off their long beautiful hair just because 'that's how it's supposed to look at my age'. Says who? I don't see it written anywhere that you have to stop being attractive just because you get older, and for the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would want to aspire to that! 'Gee, I can't wait until I get old so I can look dowdy and frumpy'. Why would anyone do that to themselves? I don't get it.


there was no way for her to transition in private, So being up front takes the paparazzi right out of it.
I don't think it will. The rag newspapers have followed the Kardashian clan for years. This will only give them more material. And will keep Caitlyn up front in the news on a regular basis, hopefully to the point where she'll become just another celebrity. And that will trigger the point where it will become normal to have transsexuals around. People will discover that TS aren't any different than anyone else. Bruce had his day in the sun back in the seventies, and helped every kid in America realize that if he worked hard enough, he could do well in sports too. Now Caitlyn's working real hard towards proving that being TS isn't a social sentence of solitary confinement. She's going to be out there. I kind of wonder what's next.

[TrishaTX]

As a pure crossdresser who works in a very male centric industry, I'll give you my two cents. Each steps in the news or social media is another step in people accepting people. Now I am a conservative person, in my regular life I am feel what you do and what I do should not cross paths unless we want it too. That said , you should be able to do what you want. For me that is mostly behind closed doors in the bedroom, maybe because of my career, may and what he wanted.be because I was brought up that way, maybe because I am married...who knows. This is what I am comfortable with.
This Jenner coming out can only be a good thing. Yes he has money to do this but so so many others. It was brave and no matter how old, he found himself and what he wanted...maybe needed. I personally know the pain of lying and feel unaccepted/wanted. There is no cure for that until someone does. My guess is he finally found someone who does accept him, maybe it was one of the kids...who knows. I wish I could have had that earlier in life...but so long is it has started now Ill take it.
Lesson of the story...be true to you and find someone who will love you and accept you!. Thanks

[Rogina B]

Yes he has money to do this but so so many others.

NOT SO !!! Most transitioners will never be able to afford any type of surgery and many are lucky to find work or be accepted as human beings rather than freaks. Sad reality,but too true..

[Maxie]

This whole media buzz caused a very interesting day at work. As I mentioned in other posts, I work in law enforcement and have an interesting group of guys in my station. As we were going through shift change a couple guys came in laughing and looking at some pictures. Of course we wanted what was going on. One of them said that they just busted a "Jenner" working on a corner. For the rest of my shift every time someone saw a TS, CD or *******, "Jenner" was the word of the day. I asked some of them if that was necessary. The majority of them told me that anyone who has been with "the Calabasas petting zoo" deserves it.

Some of you think that the transition Bruce made will have a positive impact on the topic. Wake up.

[AletaHawk]

Will Smith's son Jaden just recently did the genderqueer thing and wore a prom gown to his high school prom. I say the closet door is not just busted down, but is in the process of being trampled by folks on their way out.

I personally think Jaden's very public genderqueer/genderfluid dressing is the much bigger deal. Because it is being treated as if it's perfectly normal. It might come off as a fashion trend, but it will likely make a lot of us feel safer when celebrities are dressing while not transitioning. Just my 2 cents though :)

[Lena]

that's another thing we have to get over; that old people should avoid trying to appear sexy and attractive. Why? Why should everyone's goal be to look like their grandparents did? It drives me nuts when women chop off their long beautiful hair just because 'that's how it's supposed to look at my age'. Says who? I don't see it written anywhere that you have to stop being attractive just because you get older, and for the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would want to aspire to that! 'Gee, I can't wait until I get old so I can look dowdy and frumpy'. Why would anyone do that to themselves? I don't get it.


I wasn't saying she shouldn't be as beautiful and sexy as she wants. (And she does look amazing. ) But to me, the magazine cover isn't only about her, it includes the reactions of the public. With that look, it prompts some responses that are derogatory or ridiculing. As much as I hate it, she is presenting an image to many who have never seen a tg or crossdresser.

And by the way, I'd give Hillary Clinton a hard time if she were posing in the same clothes/posing. I love seeing my wife in sexy lingerie too but I wouldn't want that to have been my first impression of her. And, it's just my opinion.

[jjjjohanne]

I have not been following this closely. I think the only reason this story is getting air time is because there is a show on the E! network. I believe that is why it is 'news'.
About 10 years ago, a company that makes pantyhose for men got interviewed by NPR. Then it went onto the AP network. Then it was everywhere for a few years including daytime news shows like the 'Today' show. Nothing seems to have changed. I think the Jenner transition will be similar.
The only way anything will change is if real people start doing this stuff around people they know.
With that said, useful information is getting out such as, "Bruce always had a huge secret. Caitlyn has no secrets."

[JayeLefaye]

I'm not sure I care for the "skimpy" outfit being the one on the cover, but I doubt if Caitlyn had any say in which photo went where. I'm also not sure of how long the photo shoot lasted, or how many outfits she tried on etc. Vanity Fair is trying to sell magazines, so I understand their decisions. Over-all though, I've been fairly impressed by what I've read of the interview, and wouldn't we ALL love to have Annie L as our photographer.

Look through our own photo gallery and tell me that there aren't a lot more provocative outfits there, and also count how many photos show us with minimum make-up? I won't go down the jealousy road regarding how much money she has, nor will I fault her for putting herself out there. I fall in the camp that considers anything that starts a conversation, and education, is a good thing. It's up to us, on our own individual basis to continue the educating. One person can't do it all.

I also agree that she looks pretty good for a no-longer-quite-young broad. Must have been taking care of herself over the years. Photoshop can only do so much with a body.

Jaye

[Eryn]

...I work in law enforcement and have an interesting group of guys in my station....One of them said that they just busted a "Jenner" working on a corner. For the rest of my shift every time someone saw a TS, CD or *******, "Jenner" was the word of the day. I asked some of them if that was necessary. The majority of them told me that anyone who has been with "the Calabasas petting zoo" deserves it.

I suppose that they could be considered "interesting" if you define "interesting" as "crass and bigoted."

I'm not out at my work, but I don't tolerate people demeaning others in my presence. I'm not so desperate to be "one of the guys" that I'll put up with that. Showing respect for everyone and insisting that those around me do the same has not reduced my status in the eyes of my peers at all.

Tacit institutional approval of bigoted behavior is the reason most people in the US don't trust the police. It isn't a matter of color, gender, or orientation. Any organization that thinks and act as though they are above the law and considers everyone outside their community to be mere "citizens" to be controlled is not to be trusted.

[Ellie52]

There is also a down side.
My wife who is very understanding with my dressing has questioned my desire to be a woman. I have never wanted to be a woman and have no desire to transition.
How can I convince her 100% when she sees me prancing around in a bra, panties skirt wig etc having a great time.?
The problem is the media hype has joined all CD's together whatever their reasons or future desires.
I have reassured my wife that all I enjoy is the clothes and playing a bit of dress up.
Imagine how many other wives are out there (whose husbands enjoy simple underdressing only) and are now paranoid their husband is going to become a woman. What is a bit of harmless fun, now has huge ramifications.
For this reason it may also force people back into the closet
Every good side has a down side but in the end it should be beneficial as long as these celebrities are doing it for the right reasons and it not just a money making exercise.

Ellie

[Krististeph]

... being trampled by folks on their way out.

I like that mental image!

Bruce Jenner was a bit of a hero to me in the 80s when I was a cyclist wanna-be. Caitlin is a hero to me because she is showing people that gender is not bimodal- and so publicly. I hope other folks like Steven Tyler will continue to express their comfort with femininity, but it is ultimately the media that decides how it is presented. Caitlin has helped with exposure, but there is so much more than just that.

She'll be one of my heroes, yeah, next to my brother (who probably has a problem with me being a sissy), Wolfgang Pauli, Candice Pert, Leon Lederman, Albert Einstein, Bruce Lee, etc.

She'll make mistakes, she'll be human, she'll die. But she will live as the gender she wants to live as, and all the perks and benefits along with it. I'd cycle alongside her any day, wishing I had the chance to do the things she's done. This is what celebrities are made of- and Caitlin is bringing a huge bolus of acceptance to all of us who crossdress for whatever reason.

[Claire Cook]

I just hope Caitlin's story adds to the growing awareness of TGism in our society. We've had similar threads on this, and what with Transparent, the New Girls on the Block, Jaden Smith etc., that awareness is there. And we do our own little bits to add to that. (But yes, we'll still have to deal with the bigots and "yahoos".)

As much as I admire Jenner's coming out (whatever her motives), I'm more touched by Jazz Jennings' story. That girl and her family are doing so much to further awareness and understanding. IMHO, this is the kind of PR that we need.
My :2c:.

[CarlaWestin]

Ms. Jenner and all involve stirred the profit machine exactly the way they wanted. The VF cover shots were over the top glamor shots that a lot of us would love to experience for a day of extreme makeover fun. Any heightened awareness and acceptance from the event will be minimal. I've seen the expected outcome in social media. Those who bolster their primitive integrity by debasing others have jumped right on it. As I wait for the short attention span to pass, I'm paying more attention to the everyday Caitlyn look. You know, ball cap, shorts and ponytail. I'm really glad for her finding her true center but, I've already heard too many false comparisons to military heroes and the overuse of "prancing" and "playing dressup".

[Amy Fakley]

I'll be honest, I had no idea who Bruce Jenner even was other than an oblique reference in a rap lyric that was in a song my officemate used to play ad nauseum in the early 2000's .... "Bruce Jenna, the winna, tastin' MC's for dinna ..." (I think that was a remix of Craig mack / Flava in ya ear, lol)

His Olympic career was well before my time, and though I briefly tried to later in life, I just don't give a hoot about sports really. Nor about the Kardashians ... I also didn't know who the heck they even were other than via "Kim Kardashians butt" memes on reddit and the like.

It's kind of astounding to think that a celebrity I barely knew existed a few months ago has managed to have such a profound impact on my life! But I can honestly say that she has. Her very public approach to transition has opened doors for conversation with my daughters about topics that would simply have been unapproachable otherwise.

Caitlyn has given all of us teachable moments. How those moments are taught are up to us. I'm certain, that at most diner tables in my neighborhood, if it was even talked about, the lesson was 180 degrees from the discussion of empathy, respect and tollerance that we had.

Go out, and teach the world what this means, sisters.
You don't even have to out yourself to do it.
Caitlyn can't change the world, but she can open the door for us to do so!

[Barbara Black]

I can't believe someone would call him Caitlyn/Bruce. SHE goes by Caitlyn.

[Sharon B.]

In my opinion it will turn into another reality show and it will make us out as freaks at a side show.

[Ilsa]

Things that don't help us: Dennis Rodman, RuPaul, Drag Queens and for those of us who are old enough to remember Milton Berle. I think this is the stereotype that a lot of people associate us with and with the media promoting it all the time it only hurts us more. Caitlyn's emergence could be a critical turn in the publics perception of who a transgender person really is. I only hope that Caitlyn handles her situation in a dignified manner.

[JasmeVee]

I'm happy for caitlyn and wish her the best. I however, am more impressed by the recent transition of andrej (andreja) pejic. To possibly lose a career at her age to change gender was gutsy. And she is beautiful just as she was as a retired male

[Mary Morgan]

Ilsa,

Thoughtful people will be happy for Caitlyn Jenner and for those of us who are gender gifted. On balance, I believe there are more thinkers than the thoughtless who frankly don't like anything they don't understand, or should I say are unreasonably fearful of. In the short term, it will no doubt be hyped to a point of extremes, but in the long run, this time will mark a new wonderful beginning. I only wish I had her courage when I was younger.

[Stephanie47]

I'm happy for Caitlyn. She had the resources to make her transition and to do some body sculpting that the ordinary folks of the world cannot afford. Yes, she had a professional makeup artist, and, she had a first class photographer. I don't know why there is so much criticism about the use of professionals to make a woman look her best. I noticed when my daughter was a bride, and, also a bridesmaid these past two years that all the women were heavily made up for the camera. Their makeup was really "caked on" for the camera. The object was to hide their natural "blemishes" or at least not have the camera accentuate the "blemishes."

As to whether Caitlyn's transition will help the cause. You have to define what the cause may be. In Washington State the law is extremely supportive of gays and lesbians, transsexuals, and, even cross dressers. Local laws in some municipalities even goes further than state law. If you live in a state that does not afford these rights, then Caitlyn may bring some further understanding of the plight of transsexuals and other sexual minorities. Will this eliminate the outright misunderstandings of the plight of transsexuals on the local level, i.e., the local populace? Maybe. But, I do not see the locals stop screaming and yelling if a transitioning male wants to use the women's locker room at school.

Some or even most people will still shake their heads about any of this and choose not to understand. I would hope the wives of cross dressers would reflect upon Caitlyn's transition and see their husbands as more complicated than just a guy wearing a dress. Frankly, if I grew my hair out when I was in my late teens and early twenties I would have looked as feminine as Cailtyn without any enhancements of my facial features. Now, at the age Bruce was...I'd need a lot of help and money to look like Caitlyn.

Hopefully, Caitlyn will just fade away from public view and enjoy her new self. I would not envy a life of fleeing from the paparazzi.

[Madeleine Quinn]

I personally think Jaden's very public genderqueer/genderfluid dressing is the much bigger deal. Because it is being treated as if it's perfectly normal.

I'm not so sure about this—in particular, the part about Jaden Smith wearing girls'/women's clothes "being treated as if it's perfectly normal." Especially in the wake of the notorious pseudophilosophical nonsense interview he and Willow did, the Smith kids have been looked at as something of a freak show. Their parents' unorthodox (and some would say overly lax) approach to parenting, their connections to Scientology, and rumors about their (i.e., Will and Jada's) own sexual orientations have all also added to the perception that, however one might describe that family, "perfectly normal" isn't a description that would come to mind for most. I'm sure it also hasn't helped that so many people have publicly called into question whether either Jaden or Willow has any real talent as an entertainer, or whether instead they've both simply cashed in on their parents' success and connections. I think the jury's very much still out on whether most folks view Jaden Smith and his public acts as perfectly normal or something of a joke, but right now, my read is that if there is any emerging consensus, it's hewing closer to the latter.

Of course, Jaden's philosophical views, his talent or lack thereof as an actor, etc., should have no bearing on whether society in general is accepting of performances of gender (his or anyone else's) that subvert societal norms. My impression, though, is that in most people's minds, Jaden's gender performance is pretty inseparable from all of those other things that make him and his family something of a lightning rod.

[Krisi]

Some one posted the cover photo of Ms. Jenner on Facebook with a bunch of hateful comments and Bible quotes. Several people agreed and a few stood up for her. My comment was, what if your own child or grandchild came and told you that he or she was gay (yes, some folks lumped transgender and gay together), lesbian or transgender? Would you still love him or her?

While this Jenner situation is bringing transgender folks to the forefront, it seems to be generating a lot of hate as well as possible acceptance. Just dividing the country over one more issue.

[Alexis08]

She looks fabulous, but I can't help but wondering whether she is a genuine transsexual who wants to live as a woman 24/7 or just a CD who felt forced to undergo sex change in order to be able to live out her feminine side.

I can imagine it's tough to live as a CD when you're a celebrity and are part of the Kardashian clan.

[justmetoo]

I just wish Caitlyn the best, as I do for anyone. I'm not going to judge or speculate about hidden motives or what might be or what might happen or anything. I feel like she has the right to do what works for her. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes, but I'm not her. So, here's to Caitlyn! Good luck and have a happy life!

[donnaS]

As far as the Bible people go.
I say, they need to sweep under their feet before they sweep under Caitlyn's.
And further more, what she has done is between God and her when they meet face to face.
"Judge no one but yourself"
Cause there is no jury in Heavan.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

I think the publicity surrounding Caitlyn's debut will be be a step akin to Ellen DeGeneris' comming out. It won't change things instantly, but it will give more people reason to support legal protections for non-gender conforming individuals. Even with those protections, though, there will always be bigotry. Look at the state of the USA 50 years after the Civil Rights Act.

[Barbara Jo]

With money, many many thing are obtainable that are out of reach for the average person .

IF Katilyn did no have her facial electrolysis, her facial feminization surgery and apple shaving (this past march) she would still just look like a man in a dress!
These procedures are totally out of reach financially for most trans people.

Also, if one is not working at a job where they have to present as male, they can hide from the public and transition much easier as Katilyn did and her money allowed.
Imagine someone trying to transition when working at a male blue collar job. It wold be very close to impossible.....both financially and socially.

In short..... Katilyn's position in life allowed/enabled her to transition.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Judging by pictures I have seen, Caitlyn had electrolysis a long time ago (might have even done it in the 80s, when she started to transition.) Obviously, I notice those things.

[Megan G]

With money, many many thing are obtainable that are out of reach for the average person .

IF Katilyn did no have her facial electrolysis, her facial feminization surgery and apple shaving (this past march) she would still just look like a man in a dress!
These procedures are totally out of reach financially for most trans people.

Also, if one is not working at a job where they have to present as male, they can hide from the public and transition much easier as Katilyn did and her money allowed.
Imagine someone trying to transition when working at a male blue collar job. It wold be very close to impossible.....both financially and socially.

In short..... Katilyn's position in life allowed/enabled her to transition.

I think you might want to take a look at the TS section here and do a little reading before making claims like the ones you just made above.

Pretty much everyone that identifies as a woman (read transsexual) at some point or another has had electrolysis or laser (or like me a combination of both), many have some sort of FFS and I have read about a few that have had Adam Apple reduction. In addition to his we also pay for years of therapy and some their HRT meds. Some pay for SRS out of pocket also.

Many of us indeed work at "blue collar" jobs and transition on the job as well.

It is not impossible, there are many of us here that have proved it can be done.

Megan

[Barbara Jo]

Everyone who has the money because it it can run into the thousands..

Saying everyone is an unjust generalization .
Yes, you can definitely find exceptions to everything but, I stand by my original remarks.

Let's no loose sight of the fact that Katilyn transitioned quite late in life and it was her money and position in life that allowed it and she spent a fortune on it so far.

Like beauty, money is never an issue if you have it.

[sometimes_miss]

You know, I didn't hear any of this insanity when Andreja Pejic came out and transitioned, and her image was already all over the place, nobody said squat. .


Tacit institutional approval of bigoted behavior is the reason most people in the US don't trust the police. .
Reality doesn't bear that out. YOU might not trust the police, but outside the annoyance of traffic pull overs, I think most people do trust the police. I work with them every day. Sure, there are some morons there, but most do their best to be professional and honest the vast majority of the time. BEsides, what is your option? Is there a criminal 911 so you can call a criminal in an emergency? Nope.

How can I convince her 100% when she sees me prancing around in a bra, panties skirt wig etc having a great time.?
Stop prancing. Just behave normally when you're dressed en femme. That's a start. Walking around the house trying to exaggeratingly wiggling your hips, singing in falsetto "I'm glad I'm a girl" won't get you any points.

I only hope that Caitlyn handles her situation in a dignified manner.
I'm not sure she's going to have a lot of choice in the matter. The TV show will want to keep interest up so they'll probably do whatever they can to promote her every move. And yet, I think she knew that in advance, and plans on using that to show the world that she isn't crazy. So far she's done almost everything right. Whether appearing on the Vanity Fair cover was a good Idea we'll not know for years; after all, Vanessa Williams did the Penthouse spread and it didn't seem to affect her career negatively at all.

I don't know why there is so much criticism about the use of professionals to make a woman look her best.
I think it's partially about people feeling that they are being fooled, already there are 'before' pictures surfacing contrasting her with and without make up and airbrushing pics. A good percentage of men admired Bruce for years after the Olympics win. I've also heard numerous guys disparaging her saying things to the effect 'he had us all fooled all that time', and worse.

My comment was, what if your own child or grandchild came and told you that he or she was gay (yes, some folks lumped transgender and gay together), lesbian or transgender? Would you still love him or her?
Some can accept it, some never will. You have ultra conservative Dick Cheney supporting his gay daughter, and then you still have the parents of Leelah Alcorn who didn't. There's really no way to know in advance.

She looks fabulous, but I can't help but wondering whether she is a genuine transsexual who wants to live as a woman 24/7 or just a CD who felt forced to undergo sex change in order to be able to live out her feminine side.
Forced to undergo a sex change???? I don't think so. There are a lot of things people will do, but casually undergoing a sex change isn't one of them.

I can imagine it's tough to live as a CD when you're a celebrity and are part of the Kardashian clan.
And yet he's been doing it for years. Millions of us do it daily. Hard? I like to keep in mind that dodging bullets and bombs in a war zone is a lot more stressful than being careful that nobody peeks in my windows and catches me wearing a skirt.

there will always be bigotry. Look at the state of the USA 50 years after the Civil Rights Act.
And it's 150 years since the emancipation proclamation. Yet we still have redneck morons waving the confederate flag and spouting all kinds of racial slurs, yelling 'The south shall rise again!' You can't fix stupid.

I think you might want to take a look at the TS section here and do a little reading before making claims like the ones you just made above. Pretty much everyone that identifies as a woman (read transsexual) at some point or another has had electrolysis or laser (or like me a combination of both), many have some sort of FFS and I have read about a few that have had Adam Apple reduction. In addition to his we also pay for years of therapy and some their HRT meds. Some pay for SRS out of pocket also. Many of us indeed work at "blue collar" jobs and transition on the job as well. It is not impossible, there are many of us here that have proved it can be done. Megan
See, it's this part where the pink fog takes over a lot of people's perspectives. I work in the inner city, and see pre op ts on a regular basis, and not the ones who have the resources that you think everyone has. You see the middle class and up. I see the minimum wage earners, the ones unemployed, the teens kicked out by their families, the homeless, those who have been uninsured for years, and are now underinsured because their deductible is so very high. Those people cannot afford FFS, electrolysis, hormone therapy, etc..

[Debb]

I watched the interview, then saw the magazine cover, and then .. I came home last night from work, and my wife had me sit down with her and we watched two episodes of "The Kardashians" .. the two episodes apparently filmed before Jenner's interview went public. It showed a very human side of Jenner and her kids and wife, and how they hashed out some grievances, etc.

It was a great help to me, as I am in the process of coming out to my own kids, as well as my birth family.

Back in '76 I admired Bruce Jenner; he was the one who made me try out for track & field in high school. I was no athlete, but was successful in a couple sports, which helped to show me that I could do stuff, too! Now, Caitlyn is providing yet another example.

[grace7777]

I still remember Caitlyn winning the gold medal in the 1976 Olympics. This was no easy feat. It takes a lot of hard work and discipline. I admired her then and I admire her now.

[Stephanie Sometimes]

For what it is worth: my therapist (who specializes in gender identity issues) told me today that the number of prospective new clients who call her every week just about doubled after the Diane Sawyer interview with Caitlyn (then Bruce) Jenner. And then the number of new callers doubled again after the media coverage of the Vanity Fair cover story about Caitlyn.

What I think we will see as a result of the Caitlyn Jenner story is a new awareness of transgender people by the general public along with some increase in acceptance by them of TG's. What we will also see is a feeling of empowerment in the minds of TG folks that they too may be able to come out of the closet a little bit or a lot more no matter what their level of economic resources happen to be. Both of these things are positive results in my mind and should out-weigh whatever negative consequences may result from the actions of hateful and bigoted people.

We can hope.
Hugs,
Stephanie

[Barbara Jo]

I still remember Caitlyn winning the gold medal in the 1976 Olympics. This was no easy feat. It takes a lot of hard work and discipline. I admired her then and I admire her now.

Don't misunderstand me .. I admire her also . :)
I just want to put things into perspective as it relates the the average TS.

[Alexis08]

Forced to undergo a sex change???? I don't think so. There are a lot of things people will do, but casually undergoing a sex change isn't one of them.


When i said undergo sex change, I meant changing legal gender and living as a woman 24/7. If this is what Caitlyn wants and doesn't feel pressured by the society to fully transition into a woman, then i'm happy for her and wish her the best.

[Barbara Jo]

I don't think that Catilyn will seek SRS at her age..