When does one move from Cross Dresser to Transgender to Transsexual ?

[Kelly DeWinter]

Ok the reason I'm posting this is because tonight I'm lazy tonight and it's probably been answered in another post but at work
my co-workers were talking about a famous celebrity (yes, its C.J, but that topic is in a different thread) who has recently
started to transition however is quoted as saying "I don't ever plan on having SR Surgery" ..... so.

for the average person in how would YOU personally answer the following:

"When does one move from Cross Dresser to Transgender to Transsexual ?"

[Eryn]

One moves from CDer to TS when one starts to prefer lounging around in sweats to getting dressed to the nines with no place to go. :)

OK, a longer answer:

I think that one is always at the same place. It just takes time and self-understanding to figure out where that place is.

Most of us with gender issues start out rationalizing to ourselves that we are CDers, since that is the end of our spectrum closest to people who don't have gender issues. So, we dress, learn a bit about makeup, and perhaps head out the door.

Once out the door some find that they are more interested in feminine interaction than in simply the clothes. We learn more about the social aspects of being female and perhaps discover that we prefer that sort of interaction to that we have as males.

Some aren't satisfied by this. They feel driven to make their physical being conform more closely to their desired gender. Those are the ones that are termed TS no matter what the medical intervention may be.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

they don't

[AllieSF]

According to this site and without wanting to start a debate on terminology, if one is a CD then they are TG under that umbrella. Now, when does one "move" from TG/CD to TS is again a matter of how the individual sees it and has a strong opinion about it. I believe that if one is the opposite gender than their body parts, then they are that opposite gender from birth, similar to being gay. They may not recognize it right away. So, then we get to that difficult point of view, when does one become a TS? Some may say when they recognize that they are that opposite gender. I think that may be the correct point of view. It does not mean that they then almost immediately start to do something about it, i.e. they become a TS when they start to transition in some way, mentally (make a decision to) or otherwise. That may take a little or a lot more time to make that sometimes very hard decision.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

that seems right..

nothing changes except the persons realization about what they always were and will always be..

you don't move between anything...you take actions and understand your nature better over time //thats all it is..

if a person is a cd and tricks themselves into transition, they are just as F'd as Jon Snow sailing out of Hardhome

[Donnagirl]

After three years according to some, five years according to others (sarc)... :):eek::D

[docrobbysherry]

I've discovered this rule regarding your question in my 7+ years here, Kelly:

There R NO RULES!:eek:

[grace7777]

For me it is not that I moved from CD to TS, it is that at one time I thought I was just CD, but am now discovering that I am more than likely TS. Now I find that Being en femme is more natural for me than being en drab. Also, it is now more than just being all dressed up. It is about living as much of my life as possible as a woman.

[PaulaQ]

It's all fun and games until the estradiol starts...

Seriously, you are no longer a crossdresser when you come out to yourself as being a woman, or at least as something other than a CD.

Let's not use the word "transsexual" please. I think what you are looking for is when you reach a point where you need to transition, and begin that transition. The transition itself can take a number of different forms.

The key parts, in my opinion are:
1. Coming out to yourself about your gender identity
2. Recognizing the need to do something about your identity
3. Doing something about it

[Zooey]

One moves from CDer to TS when one starts to prefer lounging around in sweats to getting dressed to the nines with no place to go. :)

Whether or not that was intended to be sarcastic, there's a whole lot of truth in that statement. :)

[Megan G]

IMHO and from my experience you do not move from CD to TS, you just come to realize you were always TS and were most likely in denial about it.

I identified as a CD'er for decades but looking back I was just in severe denial about who I really was. I did not want to believe that I was TS and fought against it very hard, trying to "man up". Once the GD got to a point that I could barely function in daily life and sought out help it still took me a long time to come to terms with it.

I can use this site for example, when I joined I thought I was a cd'er but as I browsed the cd section I could not relate to anything being discussed. I posted occasionally but like real life I just felt like I did not fit in. I could care less what colour panties I was wearing or anything else that was being discussed. infact when I came out to my wife 10 years ago I showed her this forum but cautioned her to not assume that what she reads in the cd section is a reflection of what I think or feel.

Then once I opened my mind to possibly being TS and started reading What others wrote in the TS section, that was the first time I could relate to anyone on this forum. I could feel what they were saying and could look back on my life and see the same thing. I shared something with them,life crippling Gender Dyshoria.

So when does a CD'er move to being TS? They don't unless they were TS to to begin with.

Megan

[stefan37]

So now we can't use transsexual? Umm

[Kaitlyn Michele]

exactly megan

and stef i know
that is just flat out completely and totally wrong

Im transsexual.. I'm a transsexual woman.. sorry but thats the simple truth to me
transition is what i did about it to improve my quality of life..

[I Am Paula]

I went from CD, to transsexual in one day. I had an epiphany, a rather messy one, which involved a lot of crying, on my neighbors lawn. The next day I was at my Dr's office.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

see i like to say this differently paula i think the way you say it creates a very false impression:hugs:

you REALIZED you were transsexual.. you REALIZED what wearing women's clothes really meant to you..
you were transsexual all along...your wonderful stories about your transition only bear out what was true the whole time...

to me this really nails down for people that they really are the arbiters of their gender identity and self reflection and honesty is what bears the most weight by far...

[Michelle.M]

So now we can't use transsexual? Umm



and stef i know
that is just flat out completely and totally wrong

Im transsexual.. I'm a transsexual woman.. sorry but thats the simple truth to me
transition is what i did about it to improve my quality of life..

Right.

I was on another forum (not trans related) and a discussion of trans issues came up. The poster (a cis woman) stated that the term transsexual was offensive to trans people and outdated.

Really? Still works for me.

[Angela Campbell]

If you're lucky. ...never

[Jorja]

Like everything else within the transgender umbrella, this is a hard question to answer. It has been my experience that when one truly weighs the facts and decides that they were TS all along, that is when the shift happens. The majority of CDs, those that love the duality of crossdressing, will never decide to transition. There are no statics available to even make an educated guess of when this shift happens.

[PaulaQ]

So now we can't use transsexual? Umm

Look, obviously you are free to use whatever terms feel comfortable with describing yourself.

I feel that "transsexual" is a term of oppression. It was coined by cisgender people. It has a very narrow definition historically. The history of it, particularly the gate keeping is shameful in my opinion. I want no part of the word, although I understand many do identify with it.

If by "transsexual" one refers to a set of steps, medical, social, and legal to transition from your assigned at birth sex to your gender identity, then yup, that's what I am. I am doing all the stuff people on the forum do who were assigned male at birth but who are in actuality women and who feel they must live their lives as such.

In particular, since this is obviously such a vital and important piece of information in our society, I am scheduled with Bowers in February of 2016 to have my penis surgically reconstructed into a vagina. This appears to be the gold standard, at least for some around these parts. (Pun intended.)

So yes, I'm a transsexual. I'm in transition, and look, I have access to the safe haven forums for transsexuals here.

And I still hate this term, and do not use it when self-describing.

I find it astonishing that people here would feel OK about a term that TERFs like Janice Raymond have used, with great success, to oppress us and undermine our identities as women.

I hate that I'm expected to self identify, apparently, in a way that very publicly divulges the most private medical details about myself that I could imagine, and that is expected of no one else in our society.

Can you imagine a woman who has survived breast cancer feeling the need to explain this to someone she's on a date with, and then having that person look at her in disgust, exclaiming "Oh my God! You mean those aren't REAL breasts?, and then facing the humiliation of having that person run to the restroom and throw up?

That would be horrible and inexcusable in our society, but it's a common experience for many of us. At the very least it's a common movie trope. I rather expect verbal or physical violence against the trans woman is a much more common outcome than nausea on the part of the cisgender person at the table.

My opinion is that the information conveyed in the term transsexual need only be known by my doctor, and possibly by my lovers.

[stefan37]

I'm not as sensitive to those issues. I take offense to policing of terms I use. I use transsexual and tranny interchangeably depending on my audience. Transitioner would be more descriptive, but those not in the know wouldn't understand. Transgender might work, but I rarely use it to describe me. I associate transgender with a gender fluid individual. I'm scheduled for SRS Nov 3, but I don't have the abhorrent thoughts of my penis as you do. As a matter of fact I'm actually ambivalent about it. If for health reasons I couldn't have it. I could get an orchi and go about my life. I have my own reasons and that suffices for me.

[Michelle.M]

I'm not as sensitive to those issues. I take offense to policing of terms I use.

I agree. I don't see all the negative connotations with the term. As far as I'm concerned it's merely a medical term to describe a person who is experiencing a specific set of circumstances in their life. Not much more than that, IMHO.


I find it astonishing that people here would feel OK about a term that TERFs like Janice Raymond have used, with great success, to oppress us and undermine our identities as women.

Well, that’s a bit of a reach. That Janice Raymond and her ilk use this term is no more offensive than anyone else using any other standard term. What Janice Raymond does that is so offensive is to misuse the term, and other terms that also have legitimate meanings in the appropriate context. Her sin is the intentional misgendering and miscategorization of trans people to suit her own agenda.

I am not willing to give our enemies permission to define trans culture, and I won’t stop using a perfectly good word just because someone has used it as a weapon. I don’t believe in letting the bad guys make the rules.

[Rianna Humble]

or the average person in how would YOU personally answer the following:

"When does one move from Cross Dresser to Transgender to Transsexual ?"

I would start by explaining that the question is phrased wrongly and that someone does not "move" from being a cross-dresser/transgender to transsexual.

Some people as part of the denial of their true nature will try to use cross-dressing as a coping mechanism, but that does not mean that they were not born with this medical condition. I have known for over half a century who I really am but it is only in the last five or six years that I have given in to the need to address my condition. I did not suddently "move" to being transsexual, I did "move" to do something about it.


Let's not use the word "transsexual" please.

If you don't want to use the term, don't, but you will not prevent me from using a term that describes me quite succinctly.


I feel that "transsexual" is a term of oppression.

In a lot of contexts, "female" and "woman" can be used as terms of oppression, will you also ask us to stop using those?


I find it astonishing that people here would feel OK about a term that TERFs like Janice Raymond have used, with great success, to oppress us and undermine our identities as women.

What I find astonishing is that anyone on these forums would use abuse by TERFs to try to determine what terms we can use to describe ourselves accurately.

WHilst we are on the subject, TERFs try to use the term "Feminist" to abuse us, should I stop being a feminist?

[PaulaQ]

If you don't want to use the term, don't, but you will not prevent me from using a term that describes me quite succinctly.


Really, what information does it convey? This term, for better or worse, has become all about medical stuff that I don't think we need to talk about in terms of general self-identification. It's also confusing for the non-transgender folks, because it makes our condition sound like a sexual orientation, when it most assuredly is not.

Why do you feel the need to convey this information? What is it buying you? Does someone need to know we're on hormones? (Oh wait, that isn't a requirement), or we're changing our legal documentation? (Not always possible!) Or any of the other myriad things this implies? Wouldn't it be more descriptive to say "I'm undergoing gender transition", if that's what you are actually doing?

Explain to me please why this is better than saying "I'm a transgender woman," or better still, "I'm a trans woman," or even "I'm a woman?"

As for the comment about not using the word "woman", although there are people who would actually like this, I suspect, for better or worse our minds and our society seem really geared to this whole man / woman , male / female thing. So I'm sorry, but I suspect we're stuck with those terms. Unfortunately, some of the suggested replacements came from the same radical feminists who have been not quite so nice to us, so I'm hesitant to suggest adopting them. But if you want to refer to us as "womyn", I guess more power to you?

[Kelly DeWinter]

After reading the Posts, maybe the question should be "When does one transition from Cross Dresser to Transgender to Transsexual to Woman ?"

[Kaitlyn Michele]

What about transsexual conveys surgery ? it conveys gender identity... gender is opposite of birth sex...pretty much end of story..

FFS/HRT/GRS/Full time or just suffering in desperation doing nothing... its all transsexual..

frankly as i've said a dozen times in the other section..my issue is with the term transgender...
It infers that there is a progression and it causes miscommunication and questions like the one in the OP>

sorry paula...i'm a transsexual woman.. what i did about it is my business(even though i share it pretty openly)

[Frances]

I have only seen crossdressers ask the question up to now.

I too don't understand this continuum thing. I don't see any of it as a habit that became overwhelming. It may be like that for some or for everyone else. I did not crossdress for the 10 years or so prior to transition. Before that, I only crossdressed sparingly and with great shame. I don't know about this transgender notion either.

I often talk about having been transsexual forever, but who knows. Memories are recreated and can informed by current circumstances. All my therapists see transsexuality as an incurable mental illness. I am starting to see it like that to a certain degree as well. I have seen all the hypothesies on the physiological component, but it ultimately comes down to dysphoria and its intensity. It's all about severe anxiety steming from being one sex and being convinced of being the other. Some people change sex without crossdressing at all until the RLE.

[Starling]

Whatever causes Gender Dysphoria, it's real and it kills people. As I felt "different" from an early age, I tend to believe it is ingrained from birth. I have a mild fetish or two, and some neurotic behaviors, and I can clearly tell the difference between them and my sense of female identity. But it matters not, in the end. I don't know how many crossdressers commit suicide, or feel their life is a lie; so there may be a behavioral continuum of sorts, but one does not move along it except in growing awareness--and distress.

:) Lallie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

sorry i have to say it still bugs me...
the question is wrong..

When does a transsexual realize she is transsexual?... that's the right question...

and there are as many answers as their are transsexuals..and there are some transsexuals that don't really know there own answer yet but in the future they will

that's really all you can say about it.

[kimdl93]

I'm going to echo KM a bit here. I feel that the question leads one to believe that a change occurs, and the former CD person becomes something he or she was not before. As other have said, a person may not have a clear sense of gender identity for many years and whether suddenly or through gradual erosion of the denial and repression, that clarity is finally attained. Once one recognizes them-self with a measure of clarity, what they choose to do with that information and the remainder of their lives is up to them.

[cheryl reeves]

ive known i was transexual since i was 13,i have my reasons for not going the full ts route,ive endured suicidal thoughts,last time was at 17 when i played chicken with a 18 wheeler,at the last sec i asked myself what are you doing,so i went out and embraced life,and havent looked back

[Krisi]

Most crossdressers do not move to transsexual or transgender. They are happy as straight male crossdressers.

[Michelle789]

No one moves from being a crossdresser to being a transsexual. A CDer is, always has been, and always will be a CDer. Although some TSes never wore women's clothes in their lives before transitioning, most of us did. Most of us were convinced we were CDers until we realized that we're TS. We used to think we were men who liked to wear women's clothes, until we realized we're women in men's bodies. Unfortunately, there's no sure fire way to know until after the fact - until after those of us who are TS come out to ourselves.

[Beth-Lock]

Ok... how would YOU personally answer the following:

"When does one move from Cross Dresser to Transgender to Transsexual ?"

On a very unlucky day.

[Kimberly Kael]

What about transsexual conveys surgery ?

The emphasis on sexuality leads many to think in terms of sex, which is linked pretty closely to genitalia. That leads people very rapidly to thinking in terms of GRS. I don't tend to describe myself as transsexual for exactly that reason.
I want the emphasis to be on gendering in interactions, so I find it easier to start with the term transgender. It's just a preference for me.

[Sallee]

WOW what a heavy question. For me I realized I was a crossdresser early on but I guess it came to a true realization when I grew board with dressing It was just loosing its thrill. I had spent 3 or 4 days dressed and doing girly things or at least perceived as girly things, shopping chatting with other girls, and just living life. After day 4 I did the same thing in guy mode and rally noticed no difference. Now I still enjoy dressing and getting out for a night or 2 but I keep my dressing in perspective and enjoy it more when time allows. I can glam up and have a great time if its just jeans and sneakers it still fun but get old quickly.

[Badtranny]

Let's just make it easy.

Being TS is about Transition. So if you are blowing up your life, and changing your name, and coming out to the world, then I think it's safe to say that you have 'become' TS and you might find the support of the TS forum helpful.

If you are not doing these things, than whatever you call yourself is of no consequence.

If these labels were flags, which would you fly? Keep in mind that everyone can see them.

TransitionerS fly the TS flag by default and it's flapping in the breeze every damn day. Where's your flag?

[Nigella]

This has had enough input to resolve the OP

You DO NOT move from CD to TS, you either are TS or not, SIMPLE

Thread done