As a crossdresser, do you feel left out of all of the trans publicity right now?

[maya1love]

Hi everyone:

I really do feel blessed to be a crossdresser, but sometimes I feel left out and misunderstood by all of the transwomen that are coming out in the media -- because they don't quite represent me. I have yet to see a man come out and just say "hey, i like to wear women's clothes from time to time". Perhaps that is the next frontier? For the crossdressers in the group, how do you feel about the representations in the media about transwomen? Do you feel it confuses others to think that you will transition? Or that you are really a transsexual?

[Laura912]

I do not feel left out because I can empathize with everyone's feelings all across the spectrum.

[Pat]

I see the whole thing as a huge plus. I think it opens a conversation that you get to use to educate the public further. Most of the transsexuals in the news aren't being referred to as transsexual. They're being referred to as transgender and that's great because it gives all the rest of us a chance to say, "Yes, I am transgender, but there is more than one kind of transgender person..." It's also great because the news is also filled with stories about "Gender Identity" issues -- "bathroom bills" and workplace protection laws, etc. And you can bring gender identity into the conversation and they'll have heard of it before.

[Madeleine Quinn]

I wouldn't generalize about all transgender women that they misunderstand me (a heterosexual male crossdresser). For one thing, as various threads on this forum make clear, there's a pretty wide range of views—among both those who identify as transgender women and those who identify as male crossdressers—regarding where, if anywhere, crossdressers fit on the transgender spectrum. So, do trans women misunderstand me? I'm sure plenty do, but since clearly trans women aren't all of the same mind about crossdressing, it's hard to make any universal assertions.

I also don't think that trans women have any obligation to represent or include me in their media appearances. As I pointed out in another thread, their experiences and challenges are drastically different from mine. I can go about my daily life, looking like a man, without feeling that, by doing so, I'm denying some part of who I am. I can be as public or private about my crossdressing as I feel comfortable with. In short, I have a lot of privileges that trans women don't, so I'm not the least but put off by the fact that their media appearances aren't about me.

As for confusion to others, well, that's just going to be a fact of life for the foreseeable future, and I don't see trans women making things any worse in that regard. There was mass confusion (among the US public, anyway) about distinctions between trans women, gay men and crossdressers long before Laverne Cox and Caitlyn Jenner started getting media attention, so I'm highly reluctant to hold them responsible for other people's ignorance. It is now as it always has been: those who are truly interested can and will choose to educate themselves. If anything, the only thing that might increase the amount of confusion could be media outlets and journalists who just don't know how to talk about transgender identities and issues. But that's not something I'd lay at the feet of trans women, either.

[Kate Simmons]

Why not be the first man to do it yourself my friend? Someone has to do it. :)

[Barbara Jo]

Catilyn is a rich media star /long time celebrity and that is the only reason she is getting attention.
It is reported that spent almost $200,000 so far which includes her recent facial feminization surgery in march.
Many of us can barely afford to go to a doctor for a flu shot.

Media celebrities are more or less expected to be outside of the norm... that is why they are media celebrities.

On the other hand, run of the mill people (like us) are expected to walk the straight and narrow and conform to all of societies standards.

So nothing has changed due to Catilyn except that she renewed a conversation about TS' ... a conversation that started many decades ago.
Talk alone solves absolutely nothing and she and her plight will soon fade from memory for the most part when it stops being news.

Fact is most people stil view being TS /CD as having a sexual issue and not a gender issue.
The general public can not even understand being gay .... being a TS is just another life choice made by immoral people to them.
CDs are not even part of the conversation.

[Cheryl T]

I feel that it has always been the Transsexuals in our community that have led the way.
My first exposure to anyone else that "dressed" was Christine Jorgensen. When she went to Sweden and had her operation it was big in the press. That event told me that I wasn't alone in this world and that meant there had to be many more like me.

The TS's have much more at stake than we do as CD's and have always been at the forefront for TG rights. Without them the vast majority of us that are out would still be in the closet. What advancements that have been made have come from their fight and I'm sure that in some respects we are seen as "tag-alongs". We must help the cause in different ways. We can be ambassadors for all when we go out by being Ladies and presenting a positive image. You know what they say about one bad apple....

[Amy Lynn3]

In short, I do not feel left out. Like Pop Eye says..." I am what I am". I was born a crossdresser and I have made my own way as such.

Yes, Ms Jenner made a big splash in the pan, however, big as it was, it would never be big enough to carry all of us with her to the fore front.

[heatherdress]

I do not feel left out. I am glad for Caitlyn and believe her public transition is overwhelming positive for others in the transgender category. I think it is positive and healthy in general because it educates and promotes understanding and acceptance of others. But...I must confess I have concerns.

Her public transition and the continued media coverage that will follow her TV shows, her family adjustment, her dating and her fashion style does not necessarily coincide with understanding and acceptance of crossdressers. Today, most people are both sympathetic and supporting of Caitlyn as a transitioned woman, not as a crossdressing man. I have not heard any discussions or inclusions of crossdressing in countless media stories. It is all about transitioning. While that is very positive, and wonderful for those members on this site who have a similar transition goal, most of us don't. Most of us want to remain male and simply crossdress, and be accepted.

Will there be greater understanding and acceptance for crossdressers because of Bruce Jenner's transition to Caitlyn Jenner? I hope so. But...

It is probably easier for most people to try to understand and accept the notion of a person born in man's body who identifies as a woman and seeks correction by transition than to understand and accept men who want to remain as men but want to, or need to, dress like women.

A man living as a woman is OK - it is now gutsy and admired. A man dressing as a woman is not OK - it is still a perversion and looked down upon, by many. Is this where we are?

The term "transgender" covers so many different categories and gender expressions. Caitlyn is now the "face" of the transgender population. As beautiful as she is, and as positive as her story has become, she also promotes a new public stereotype for all transgender people. Does that stereotype promote more understand and open more doors of acceptance for crossdressers and other categories of transgender people, in general, or does it confuse and oversimplify an array of transgender behaviors, all of which require more understanding and deserve greater acceptance.

My wife, who is very knowledgeable, accepting and supportive, has asked several times recently if I have a desire to transition, and if I am hiding it as Bruce Jenner did. I continue to assure her, but once again, Caitlyn's transition is not about crossdressing. In fact, there may be a misconception being promoted that all male crossdressers want to be, or should be, women, which might even promote more challenges for crossdressers. Caitlyn's story, unfortunately, can promote doubt, both for spouses and significant others of crossdressers and, perhaps, for crossdressers, ourselves.

Why are we not as brave as Caitlyn? When we see Caitlyn, and how beautiful she is, do we want to be more like her? Would we risk divorce, and family problems, as she did, to be more open and honest with family, friends and ourselves? When we die, will we look back with regret if we do not fulfill our innermost yearnings and needs, as Caitlyn has bravely done? What do we really need to do to successfully pursue our dreams and be happy? All tough questions which may surface for some of us.

I am in no way unsupportive of Caitlyn, whom I admire, or of the many people similar to her, whom I sympathize with. I hope her story, and their stories, will promote overall understanding and acceptance. But...

I am cautious and continue to remind myself that Caitlyn's story is not my story and that acceptance of others who are different in any way in our society will unfortunately continue to be - a challenge we must recognize, understand and help improve. I also remind myself that I, alone, are responsible for my story, and that is why I am who I am.

[Stephanie47]

I think the educated public has accepted and understands nature sometimes makes and error. I really do not think society is ready for a male cross dresser presenting himself as a guy who just happens to like wearing women's clothing. The question will always arise.....why? I am not one to accept the blissful statement of "I like to wear women's clothing because "I love the colors...yada, yada, yada." And, why do I also wear a wig to hide my balding head? Or wear a bra when I have no boobs? Why don't I want to wear a colorful floral dress with a wig and a bra? For me, I can admit I really do not know why I do what I do. That is different than saying how I feel when I am en femme.

I don't think my wife of forty plus years thinks I am going to transition to a woman. Even though we are in a DADT marriage, we've been together long enough to understand each other. Those marriages of young people probably have not been together long enough to fully understand each other.

[Karen RHT]

I don't feel left out at all. Then again, I don't pay much attention to celebrity/social media happenings. Certainly I wish Caitlyn well, but don't see her story having a dramatic impact on the general public. The haters will still hate, the moderates will swing both ways, those who support will continue to do so.


Karen

[Leslie Langford]

Much as I applaud Caitlyn's courage, the favorable light that she has shone on the whole concept of transgenderism, her success in helping educate the masses about who and what we are, as well as getting the media and other "opinion leaders" on board - for me, the bigger issue is creating a clearer delineation in the public's eye between the concepts of "transgender" vs. "transsexual".

There is an old joke that asks the rhetorical question "What is the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual?", the answer being "About 5 years". There is certainly a foundations of truth to this as with most other stereotypes, and we ourselves have seen a steady stream of ladies here who - over time - have migrated to the Transsexual Forum from the Crossdresser Forum as their status changed.

Certainly, transsexuals such as Caitlyn Jenner, Janet Mock, and Laverne Cox etc. have made great strides for their community and at the same time have provided some welcome visibility for the strictly crossdressing sub-set of the transgender spectrum as a by-product of this initiative. Still, it's now time for us to take off the training wheels and assert ourselves based on our own merits rather than continuing to ride on their coat-tails

[KittyD]

I think "Eddie Izzard" might fit into the statement " I have yet to see a man come out and just say "hey, i like to wear women's clothes from time to time".
He's a British Comedian and is well know for cross-dressing etc... Check him out :D

Kate :)

[LilSissyStevie]

There are a some CD celebrity types: Eddie Izzard, Grayson Perry, Conchita Wurst, Steven Tyler, Jaden Smith to name a few. I don't think this helps the garden variety CD much since everybody expects celebrities to act like freaks. The TSs that are coming out are not going to go to bat for CDs (why should they?) and the general public can fathom transsexuality better than it can crossdressing. It doesn't concern me much since I'm just the typical stay at home fetishistic crossdresser. I don't care what people think of it as long as they leave me alone.

[CONSUELO]

It doesn't bother me one bit. Perhaps it wil help educate the public.

[Dana44]

Oh heck yes we are misunderstood. Left out. I think the umbrella is for gay and lesbian folks mainly and a few transsexuals. Now as a CD. Golly I really do no like that name. We can fit one of the trans properties. Transvestite. This does not make us transsexual or gay. Or that we would ever transition. Too much fun having a high sex drive. In fact I think what I have is a gift. Yes we are blessed and provide a dimension to our society. One gay guy I knew was a college professor and a concert pianist. The arts would not be where it is at without us and that includes Bruce (Caitlin.) and his life that he accomplished a lot.

[Rachelakld]

Well we got lumbered with the gays in the 80's
Now we get lumbered with the transsexual
But
I still don't care what they think, I like being me.

[jessicabf]

I imagine that is common concern with some SO's - that one may want to go further and transition. I feel that such a concern is a sign of miss-understanding. I(we) enjoy the fem aspect of my male person and indulge that from time to time. But it is part of a whole. I am as disinterested with 'becoming a female' as I am in losing this part of me. So ... we will remain forever misunderstood.

In the end, I don't need, nor care for, understanding from society. I feel fortunate my SO understands and enjoys all that is me as I do the same for her. There are many other interests I have that are miss-understood. A part of living in a macro-society of modern times. ;)


Still, it's now time for us to take off the training wheels and assert ourselves based on our own merits rather than continuing to ride on their coat-tails

I would like to dissolve the classification of cross-dressing. And hope to see society remove these labels and artificial constraints on what we wear and how we express ourselves. GG's have been in this change for some time. Why should it be termed anything but just getting dressed in the morning if a guy wants to put on make up and wear a skirt - in the same way a GG get's up and decides not to put on makeup, wear jeans and boxers for the day? Can't dad wear a pink shirt without snide remarks? Any who... :)

[Alex!]

I don't feel left out, but then I am not really an active participant in the community. I just do my own thing and enjoy the company of those who share my interests in this behavior or are sympathetic. If I describe myself as a complex multifaceted jewel, crossdressing barely registers as one of the facets. Since it plays a tiny role in my identity, it is not a big deal to me personally what happens with the hoopla generated by Ms Jenner.

Having said that, it is my hope that American society grows to accept people regardless of attire or enhancements to appearance, to see that what we adorn ourselves with is merely an artistic form of expression that changes based on mood, outlook, politics, ethnicity, religion, or whatever. As long as no physical harm is generated to others, what does it matter? It will take a good long while before such a day comes, if ever.

[OCCarly]

If you are looking for a male celebrity who crossdresses, this is it right here. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jaden-smith-wears-dress-to-prom-with-hunger-games-actress-amandla-stenberg/

The reality is, nobody under 30 cares if a dude wears a dress, at least in the big cities. That the above news item is a non-event piece of fluff pretty much proves this.

The problems always seem to come from the older folks and the small town folks, and if Patrick Swayze, Wesley Snipes and John Leguizamo could not change their opinions in "To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar," then nothing will.

Caitlyn Jenner is the baby boomer's LGBT heroine, and our great hope for changing perceptions among the middle aged and older folks. And it probably will happen, judging by how much perceptions of gay folks have changed in the past fifteen years.

[CynthiaD]

A rising tide lifts all boats.

Even though the media is focused on only one segment of the trans community, the attention can't help but be good for us all. Although the focus now seems to be on a single individual, this is not the case. You can hardy pick up a fashion magazine these days without seeing something about at least one trans woman.

As for Caitlyn Jenner, I am so proud of her! I'm so happy for her! Finally having the courage to be the person she truly is! It makes me feel all warm inside. The world is finally beginning to see that trans is a good thing. Although the perspective is limited, I believe that the good feelings for Caitlyn will, in some way translate to all of us.

Our day is coming. And soon.

[Sarah-RT]

I wouldn't be jealous, I think it can only be a benefit. The only flaw I see is when it comes to having to explain the differences between transsexuals and crossdressers, I know transgendered is the umbrella term but Caitlin seems to be regularly referred to as transgendered which poses the challenge of if I tell someone I am trans but not in the same way. It's just messy.

As I said though, it's only going to be helpful for us all, I wish all the best to cait and as I heard a quote from her upcoming TV show

"it must be nice to travel through the public in a normal way"
-"you are normal"
"I'll become the new definition of normal"

[PaulaQ]

If you want visibility, the answer is very simple. Be visible.

I know some of you are. You are very brave, btw, to be visible, because you face the same discrimination people like me do, and you don't have to. You can pass for cisgender. And I know what really sucks is that there are members in my part of the community who have historically been hostile to CDs. (It's gone both ways, believe me.) But do know that some of us have your back and are on your side. Please believe me when I tell you that. We do not want to do to you what gays and lesbians have done to bisexuals, or until really damned recently, to transgender people. We watched it happen to us, it sucked, and I believe many of us are not keen on repeating the mistakes that were made with us.

But until more of you come out and are visible, until you define yourselves in ways people can't argue with, people are going to think whatever they want to think about you, and define you as you see fit.

This is cruel, it is awful, and it is highly unfair.

And if I didn't believe it was the truth, I wouldn't say it.

[sometimes_miss]

Do I feel left out? No. It's all about getting the world to recognise that we are a very diverse species, far more varied than how we are currently portrayed by our current educational system. See, Im active on a number of discussion boards on the net. I've participated in the threads about Jenner. And while there's no surprise that there's a lot of negative backlash and joking about it, what did surprise me is the percentage of people who DON'T think anything of it, and how many support the right to be left alone in our lives concerning our own behavior (and a surprising number of which who also understand the lack of support systems for trans people). It reminded me very much of listening in to discussions during the 60's race riots, when as a kid I would listen in to adults talking about blacks. Some were still bigoted blowhards, but there was also a number who recognised that black and white weren't all that different. And while most people now understand that the color of our skin doesn't define us, we still have quite a ways to go to get lots of them to accept that gender isn't any more of a choice than race is.

[Suzanne F]

I like Paula, am TS. I began my process here in the cross dressers forum. I hope that cross dressers do not feel left out. Some of my best friend are cross dressers from this site. I have nothing but love and support for my sisters that want to keep their lives as males. There is no reason that we can't be supportive of each other. We face some of the same issues and surely we should understand each other's issues that we don't necessarily share. In fact Allie and Rachael, both cross dressers from this site, were instrumental in me becoming comfortable living as a woman. I hope that I have supported them in some way.

Caitlyn's transition at least can be a starting point for conversation about how we view gender. If chosen I think it might be the time for more cross dressers to come out. I agree with Paula that the more of you that come out the better chances are that you will be viewed favorably. Believe me I know that is a difficult proposition.

Suzanne

[Tiffany Jane]

First of all, my wife is the only one who knows about my sensuality. She recorded the Bruce Jenner interview, watched it, and after I watched it, we had an open discussion about the activities, thoughts, and future of Tiffany. All my clothing, shoes, breast forms, etc, are in our bedroom closet. If I get something new, she is the first one to know. She has supported me in the last year and a half, as what seemed to be a passing occasional period, was revealed to be a growing part of my understanding of myself. This topic has allowed her to realize that although it may not be of a normal nature, I am not the only person to be a part of this. There was a lot of educational parts to the show and she loves information to help clarify things she may not understand and I may not be able to fully express.

As for the public, I would like to think I could go in public with shaven legs, painted toes, presenting as my male being, and not have to feel as if everyone is staring me down. Have worked on this over the last year and has gotten better. Would like to not worry about running to put on pants and socks when parents say that they are close by and would like to stop over to visit. Would hope that my son's generation will be tolerant and less likely to tease/mock him over his father's softer side of expression. Only time will tell, but people hate what they don't know or understand. Differences may make a person unique but in the wrong circumstance also leaves a person vulnerable.

To answer the last part of your question, this is an odd journey. No real map, just feeling around in the dark with my soul. Do I feel sometimes I may be stuck in the middle of being a crossdresser, transgender, or transsexual? Yes!

[Princess Chantal]

Nope, I don't feel left out at all!
Swing Batter Swing Batter! I could get a base hit when representing my own crossdressing, but will whiff on representing other people's crossdressing.

And I've been up to bat a few times, those that pinch hit for me doesn't affect or get credit (criticized) for my own stats

[flatlander_48]

Personally, I think the attention will be a net +. I think Bruce's thought process about the transition to Caitlyn was that, given his status for many years as a celebrity, this deal was never going to be quiet. By being open about it, she is in control of the process. Perhaps not total control, but much more so than if she had decided to just let things happen. After all, it's her story and she should be the one to tell it as she see's fit.

DeeAnn

[Rhanda]

I don't feel left out at all. Then again, I don't pay much attention to celebrity/social media happenings. Certainly I wish Caitlyn well, but don't see her story having a dramatic impact on the general public. The haters will still hate, the moderates will swing both ways, those who support will continue to do so.


Karen

I feel that you have nearly hit my concern squarely. The haters will probably intensify their hate. I have seen a lot of violence against minorities during my 87 years in the US. Changes have not come without some tragedy in this country.
Just don't get too encouraged by the recent media attention. It could be dangerous.

Prayers, Rhanda

[Sometimes Steffi]

I see the whole thing as a huge plus. I think it opens a conversation that you get to use to educate the public further. Most of the transsexuals in the news aren't being referred to as transsexual. They're being referred to as transgender and that's great because it gives all the rest of us a chance to say, "Yes, I am transgender, but there is more than one kind of transgender person..." It's also great because the news is also filled with stories about "Gender Identity" issues -- "bathroom bills" and workplace protection laws, etc. And you can bring gender identity into the conversation and they'll have heard of it before.


I agree with you Jennie.

Furthermore, if I'm out and about en femme, I can very easily admit to being transgender, because it's true. No one can look into my brain to determine if I'm TG/TS or TG/CD. I just haven't to decide to transition yet, due to money, job, wife, family, etc.

[jaimesilvertv]

I think its a good question and legitimate one given the tidal wave of attention. But i have to think this will benefit everyone over the long run with education, acceptance, and hopefully kindness. Many of us are on a continuom so there is that assist. There may be some neglect, or unwanted attention or questions triggered by it...but a rising tide lifts all. Great question though

[kimdl93]

I share Laura's perspective. I don't draw bright lines between the occasional Dressers and people like myself who more strongly identify as female, because I suspect that if you scratch deep enough, we have a great deal in common

[carahawkwind]

Anything that increases understanding and acceptance of gender identity issues is positive whether it's directly related to me or not.

[Michelle789]

I am TS who started off thinking that I was a CD. I agree with Paula and Suzanne. This is a starting point, and opens up the doors for changing our understanding of gender.



It is probably easier for most people to try to understand and accept the notion of a person born in man's body who identifies as a woman and seeks correction by transition than to understand and accept men who want to remain as men but want to, or need to, dress like women.


Yes, I agree. Those of us who transition from one gender to the opposite still reinforce the binary. Even Pat Robertson agrees that transitioning from one to the other is ok and it is not a sin to be a TS, which is a huge step forward that the leader of Christian USA is at least on board with TG people who transition and reinforce the binary.

Even in the TG community, there are those of us who don't like CDers and who don't like or understand anyone who doesn't reinforce the binary. It will take a longer time for people to understand and accept crossdressers, genderqueers, gender fluids, bigenders, dual genders, two-spirits, agenders, and any other non-binary identity or expression. However, accepting people who transition from one to the other is a huge step forward and does open the door for conversations, thoughts, and ideas about gender outside the binary.

If someone can change from one to the other, then

Why can't someone go back and forth between male and female identity or presentation?
Why can't someone just be a man who likes women's clothes?
Can someone not have a gender?
Can someone wear both men's and women's clothes simultaneously?

These are just some of the questions people will start asking about gender. I also believe that you, as CDers, need to take action yourself, and start coming out of the closet and wear women's clothes publicly. And explain the difference between a CDer and a TS.



This is cruel, it is awful, and it is highly unfair.

Paula, you raise another good point here. This could actually be it's own separate thread. You mention the word "unfair." We're taught from a very young age that "life's not fair." But that phrase "life's not fair" seems to become an excuse to propagate more unfairness. We seem to justify unfair treatment of others with that phrase "oh well, there's nothing we can do, life's just not fair, isn't it" or "that's life." Sure there are going to be natural unfairnesses built into life that we might not be able to do anything about - some people for example might hate having their birthday on Christmas and we can't change our birthdays. But it seems that most of the unfairness in life is really perpetuated by people. We believe life is not fair. We believe that "that's just the way it is." We don't realize that we can, through our actions, make life less unfair and more fair. We can today, start taking a stand, and changing our thoughts, beliefs, feelings, and actions. We can start acting in a way that is more fair. We can start trying to put ourselves in the other person's shoe, which may be difficult for some of us, but is certainly achievable.

Another problem is that people, when they get screwed, often feel a need to screw others. The abused often become the abuser. We need to stop that practice too. Just because you were discriminated because of being TS does not give you an excuse to discriminate against someone for being a CD. Just because you were discriminated against for being gay does not give you an excuse to discriminate against someone for being TS. Just because you were bullied by someone does not mean you need to bully someone else. This is how we propagate the vicious cycle of abuse, hate, and discrimination. Discrimination and hate is really abuse on a mass level, and abuse is hate and discrimination on an individual level.

"Life's not fair" is just another copout. We should start dropping that belief and realize we can, through our actions we can try to be more fair in the way we treat others, whether on an individual level or a group level.



the lack of support systems for trans people).

Not only is there a lack of support systems for trans people, but there are no such support systems in place for the families of trans people. We have AA for alcoholics, and Al-Anon and Alateen for the spouses and family members of alcoholics. But where is our "Al-Anon" for the families of trans people? Such a group literally does not exist, yet if it did exist, would do a lot for spouses or family members of transgender people. If only my father and brother, or many of our ex-wives, or children could attend such a support group. But how can they attend a support group that doesn't even exist?

[cheryl reeves]

i don't feel left out,im happy for those who transitions in the media...i freaked out a ts trucker once with having her back when she was being made fun of by male truckers,told her in private that i was considered a cd and had a knowledge on what she was going through. to me people are people and let them be til they infringe on mine or someone elses freedom,then i speak up

[CherylFlint]

I suspect a lot more guys would admit to wanting to dress than admit not to, if you get what I mean.
That said, we’re still about the smallest percentage of any group on the planet, but that’s okay, because WE understand it all even if nobody else does.
No, it doesn’t bother me in the least.
Remember, even with all this talk about “enlightened” and other BS, you still have to tread very carefully.
Stay safe.

[Marcelle]

Hi Maya,

To answer your question . . . No, I don't feel left out. While we, the community, understand the nuances of language (trans, transsexual, transgender, cross dresser) well enough (well within reason :)), society writ larger is not educated enough on the subject to draw that level of distinction. I am quite public and while I do not like the term cross dresser (I prefer transgender) it might surprise many here that is how a lot of society understands most of us. Yes, the term "transgender" is gaining momentum due to recent media attention on various celebs (Lavern Cox, Caitlyn Jenner) but people still revert to the tried and true wording not because they are facetious, mean, rude but more so because they don't know. As more celebs come out, media focuses on TG rights, and all things TG become more public, it can only lead to greater understanding about the spectrum we live in. Fortunately for us, our TS brothers and sisters are more public and this helps those of us who go out in the light to day to blend and be accepted/tolerated (whichever you choose) and that is a good thing.

However, when I go out in public or go to work "en femme" I am still seen as "like Bruce" but that is where the education piece comes into play.



. . . I really do not think society is ready for a male cross dresser presenting himself as a guy who just happens to like wearing women's clothing.

Hi Stephanie,

I am going to have to disagree with this statement as that is exactly what I do. I am very public with being Transgender and while I am little further toward the TS side of the spectrum, I still love my guy self. I like my guy physiology (like everything where it is nor desire additions) and like to be a guy. However, I also like to be a woman, present as a woman and live as a woman from time to time both privately and publicly. Now most of the Vanilla world when they see me and read me (the kid ain't pretty :)) probably assume I am TS and leave me to my devices. However, when I go to work people who know me will ask if I am going to become a woman and when I say "no" there is confusion but after I explain it to them, the confusion wanes and soon the except me for who I am . . . guy at works some days, girl other days.

Hugs

Isha

[CarlaWestin]

I don't exactly feel left out, although, there have been too many moments this week where I was just so tempted to "blow my cover" amid all of the absolutely vile comments made by the haters. My financial existence relies on a precarious balancing act in the realm of diversity and corporate social engineering. To a few trusted people I commented that a very close family member was transgender and that I was biting my tongue constantly as the morons waved their cellphones around, showing all the hater crap on social media. Oh, and I've practically un-friended everyone on AssBook.

[Alice Torn]

I agree with Barbara Jo a lot.

[Jenniferathome]

How can I feel left out of something to which I am not connected? I'm not transexual. I can empathize with the issue in the same way I do with any human rights issue but I don't 'identify' with transexuals.

Regarding the confusion question, no, I do not think transexual issues confuse the public into believing cross dressers are trans. Rather, that is a default assumption along with cross dressers are gay. I believe the general public can accept that transexuals are 'real' whereas cross dressers are completely misunderstood. The normals need to have the 'why" answered for them. For transexuals, the 'why' is clear. For a cross dresser, not so much.

[PaulaQ]

How can I feel left out of something to which I am not connected? I'm not transexual. I can empathize with the issue in the same way I do with any human rights issue but I don't 'identify' with transexuals.

I appreciate how you feel, and for the record, not that it matters, but I don't believe you will ever transition - I think you are "just a CD," too. 'Gratz on dodging a bullet.

I would hope that you would see some intersection between our issues. Jennifer, I went to the capitol of my state to lobby against bills that would have put you in jail for a year for using a women's restroom while en femme. A lot of states tried these bills, and a lot of us who are transitioning fought them hard.

Because you may think it's just an indignity (for people like me, it is a death sentence), but think about it - you aren't a criminal, but people, serious people, are willing to arrest and try CDs for using a public facility, under the assumption that the only reason you are out en femme is to molest women and girls.

That's just wrong, but it's an issue we share in common, because for both of us, gender expression is an issue.


Regarding the confusion question, no, I do not think transexual issues confuse the public into believing cross dressers are trans. Rather, that is a default assumption along with cross dressers are gay. I believe the general public can accept that transexuals are 'real' whereas cross dressers are completely misunderstood. The normals need to have the 'why" answered for them. For transexuals, the 'why' is clear. For a cross dresser, not so much.


Your feelings of invisibility are completely understandable to me, and I believe this is another area of intersection between us. I know some here think that I believe you are all trans women in denial. I do not feel this way. I know better. Being a CD is a thing. You folks are real, and your reasons for doing what you do are every bit as valid as mine.

People get sexual orientation stuff wrong for transgender women as well. We're working on it. We really are. When I do education work, I always discuss the differences between gender expression (cross dressing for example) and gender identity (people who transition).

My hope is that more of you will stand up and be visible. I believe you do this Jennifer, and I respect you for it. I know how hard that can be.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Jennifer that is an excellent comment and Paulas follow on is thoughful..

the idea that there is confusion is better stated as paula does ..its just a default assumption.. cds are gay...tss are men that change into women... its too easy

the trick is communicating that intersection in a helpful way...every time Jennifer raises the CD perspective as part of what CJenner does it raises the spectre of CD=trans..
if you stay silent its a potential missed opportunity to further your interests...

not an easy answer..
everybody hates me for thinking there should be a bright line... instead of saying all TG"s want xyz...we should say all CD's and TG's and TS's want xyzpdqabc
we can be different and still be friends..and it would sure make it easier to communicate..

[Pat]

Because you may think it's just an indignity (for people like me, it is a death sentence), but think about it - you aren't a criminal, but people, serious people, are willing to arrest and try CDs for using a public facility, under the assumption that the only reason you are out end femme is to molest women and girls.

Bathroom bills are a continuing mystery to me. Every horrible outcome the people pushing them can come up with is already illegal. Assault (of all kinds) is illegal; exposing yourself is illegal, etc. The only thing left at the end of their litany is "and how am I going to explain to my daughter that she saw a man in the ladies room?" And actually it's pretty easy to explain (and my experience with the younger generation is that they would probably patiently to explain it to Mom. ;) )

[PaulaQ]

everybody hates me for thinking there should be a bright line... instead of saying all TG"s want xyz...we should say all CD's and TG's and TS's want xyzpdqabc
we can be different and still be friends..and it would sure make it easier to communicate..

Well, this is a difficult thing, trying to communicate and convey intersectionality between us.

I do not want to erase the identities of either CDs or those of us who transition, or any of the non-binary folks. These identities are real, and matter.

What I, and some others of us, are trying to do is get people to not worry so much about the differences between us, and to not make so many default assumptions.

So it's a balancing act. We don't want to follow the path of the gay and lesbian community, and focus the vast majority of our efforts efforts on the needs of a few well-off white people who are largely all alike in some way. The gay community has been guilty of this on a massive scale.

They have all but erased the needs of gay and lesbians of color, the existence of bisexuals, and until very recently thrown trans people under the bus at every turn.

We don't want to do that.

But we also don't want clueless cis-hetero people cooking up dumbass mean spirited rules based on their imagined perceptions of us all.

I personally think it should be fine for a CD to go to work en femme, even if they never, ever, ever think about transition. So addressing things like that requires blurring the lines between us some, but in ways that recognize, and mention, our distinct identities and issues.

This is not easy to do, and I hope all here, including and especially you Kaitlyn, know that I respect you for who you are and how you feel.

[Jenniferathome]

..., I went to the capitol of my state to lobby against bills that would have put you in jail for a year for using a women's restroom while en femme....

Paula, I, too, marched at my capital building during the "add the words" campaign. Not because I'm a zealot nor a fighter for LGBT rights. I did it because it was stupid for Idaho to exclude a group that is as real as any other. If it was about gay rights, I'd have been there. Stupidity has to be called out. I'm a friend of anyone fighting stupidity.

Caitlyn Jenner will become a lightening rod for issues like restroom policy. Of that I'm am certain

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

I've recently read a couple of articles that specifically discuss the need to update U.S. military policy to allow transgender people to serve openly without risk of being discharged. But the examples of currently serving TGs were all ones undergoing HRT or planning to transition. Until the media is willing to consider CDers and non-binary persons part of the TG umbrella then there will always be a missing element to the story. Of course that presupposes a CD or what have you is willing to open up publically to the media. I wonder if Isha would be willing to weigh in on this aspect?

[VeronicaMoonlit]

everybody hates me for thinking there should be a bright line...

Hate, no. But what people need to realize is that there isn't a bright line. Never was one, never will be one. It isn't individual boxes, but a continuum of infinite points with infinite variants clustered in some clouds of dots.

And because of that, we should focus on our similarities and not our differences.

Veronica

[PaulaQ]

Paula, I, too, marched at my capital building during the "add the words" campaign.

Caitlyn Jenner will become a lightening rod for issues like restroom policy. Of that I'm am certain

I remember you mentioning this before, and I really do respect you a lot for this.

We're safe here in Texas for the next two years because of the way our legislature works. A lot of us are worried about the backlash from marriage equality, and I personally fear much better framed, insidious, and dangerous things the states could do to make us miserable. I hope the world changes. I hope the big business community here in Texas lining up behind a traditionally Democratic cause forces the Republicans who've been sort of holding their noses and going along with the zealotry of a few in their party to wake the hell up. (Let's just say that big business in Texas has been pro-Republican for the past 30 years or so - this had to be a big surprise.) Time will tell I suppose.

The battle may heat up after marriage equality passes the Supreme Court, should that be the outcome, and people realize the absurdity that it's a perfectly legal outcome for someone to tell their boss that they were just married to someone of the same sex, and for their boss to tell them "Congratulations, how nice for you! You're fired!"

[Lorileah]

Until the media is willing to consider CDers and non-binary persons part of the TG umbrella then there will always be a missing element to the story.


Isha already has a post about the military and her allowance. Canada is one step ahead it seems on this. Also the US Air Force stated
"the air force said that among enlisted airmen, there was no outright grounds for discharge for anyone with gender dysphoria or self-identifying as transgender. An individual would only be subject eviction from the air force if his or her condition interfered with their potential deployment or performance on active duty.

There is nothing in the announcement that segregates transsexuals from CDs

OTOH
ender incongruence, where a person identifies with a gender identity other than what they were assigned at birth, is classified by the US military as a “psychosexual condition” which it hasn't been listed in the general world for years

Now about the media...raise your hands if you are transgender...now define it...now watch how many here will argue your point. If WE don't agree how can expect the media to agree?

(And don't get into that argument again)

[IMkrystal]

Hi everyone:

I really do feel blessed to be a crossdresser, but sometimes I feel left out and misunderstood by all of the transwomen that are coming out in the media -- because they don't quite represent me. I have yet to see a man come out and just say "hey, i like to wear women's clothes from time to time". Perhaps that is the next frontier? For the crossdressers in the group, how do you feel about the representations in the media about transwomen? Do you feel it confuses others to think that you will transition? Or that you are really a transsexual?

LOL!! Did you see on CNN "Buzz Bissinger" who followed Caitlyn for months admitting to Anderson Cooper he crossdresses and feels because Jenner was aware of this, open the door to Caitlyn's story. DO'nt feel "left out and misunderstood" we are all part of the same cloth!

[mechamoose]

I don't know that I feel more 'left out' than usual, but I will say this.

I'm used to getting a certain kind of 'look' from people in my normal mode of girl-jeans, pinks, painted nails, floufy hair and such. Since the VF article with Ms Jenner, that look has changed a bit. It isn't quite as aggressive or hateful as I had become accustomed to seeing. I'm seeing gears turning behind those eyes now.

It isn't acceptance, but it isn't the outright rejection I have come to expect.

<3

- MM

[Lacey New]

I have to agree with a lot of the comments that being "left out" may not be quite accurate as to how I feel about the recent transgender discussion. Personally, I am glad that the discussion is going on with the media et al recognizing that yes, there are people who choose or feel more comfortable presenting as a member of their opposite birth gender and telling the world "That's OK". But so far the discussion seems to be rather shallow and perhaps is creating a new stereotype and that is that transgender people want to constantly live as a member of the opposite gender - maybe with or without SRS. There is little or no conversation about gender fluid persons who cross between male and female mode but primarily retain the identity of their birth gender.
So now is the new stereotype of someone who is transgender a boy who is now a girl? (or vice versa) And presumably the boy who is now a girl likes all girly things? And has abandoned all boy things? And presumably does that "girl" like male partners as most girls do?
Bottom line, without some deeper public discussion, I'm not sure we are seeing a big step forward yet - and potentially a step backward - back to the presumption that we are all gay.

[JamieG]

I wouldn't say I feel left out, but I do wish there were more prominent crossdresser role models. I think the big thing about Caitlyn coming out is that she was first famous for something other than being trans. It would be great to have a crossdresser do the same thing. And, I don't count Eddie Izzard because Eddie was always known as a crossdresser. The Buzz Bissinger story is cool, but honestly, I had never heard of him before, even though I know of "Friday Night Lights." And really, can you say Jaden Smith is famous? If not for his dad, he'd be no more famous than me. That said, I think it's great that he's going out there and rocking his dresses.

Why do I think having a public figure come out is important? Because that shows that anyone could be trans. Here's a person that you know and love, and they've been carrying around this heavy secret for a long time. If the community can see such a person weather the coming out process, then more of them feel confident in coming out, and then everything snowballs. I am hoping that Caitlyn's coming out will have a similar impact as to when Ellen came out as lesbian. Obviously, Ellen wasn't the first public lesbian, but she had a hit TV show and then risked her reputation by coming out. That was a real turning point in gay visibility and gay rights. Likewise there are many well-known transwomen before Caitlyn, but none of them were as equally famous for something else prior to coming out. As far as the public is concerned, Laverne Cox was always a transwoman, and even though Lana Wachowski was famous for "The Matrix" before coming out, due to her very private life, no one really knew who she was.

I am happy for Caitlyn and I do think that ultimately this attention to trans issues will help crossdressers more than hurt them. We crossdressers should recognize that our decision to stay closeted is ultimately what works against us. Our ability to present as cisgender is both a blessing and a curse. Many of us can spend our entire lives without anyone being the wiser, but that possibility of "safety" means no one will ever know the real us. Caitlyn has made me reevaluate whether I should expand the circle of cisgender friends who I am out to. One day, I'd like to be just be out to all who know me, but I'm not brave enough for that yet. Perhaps as more braver transpeople step forward, I'll finally feel comfortable enough to proudly stand beside them. In the meantime, I'll work behind the scenes, pretending to be a mere LGBT ally, as opposed to a member of the community myself.

[Sarah Doepner]

In a way I believe Caitlyn Jenner and the attention on other celebrity TS folk will do some of the same thing that Facebook did with their 50+ gender identity options. With all but the hard core haters, it spreads the idea of gender so wide that it becomes irrelevant. As the options appear to expand daily and familiarity with them becomes common knowledge there is not single point at which to strike. It becomes more difficult for someone to propose an anti- Gay, TS, TG, Gender Non-conforming, Asexual, Gender Fluid, Intersex, Crossdresser, etc. etc. bill or action. The target becomes much bigger than the group proposing it.

Do I feel left out? Not really left out, but on the sidelines waiting for the coach to send me in.

[Isabella Ross]

Left out? Not at all. Frustrated with the media's stupidly simple definition of transgender? Absolutely. I recently told several important people in my life that I was transgendered who crossdresses. Thanks to the media, the first question out of their mouths is, "So when are you getting the operation?".

[adrienner99]

While Jenner has generated a ton of conversation, thanks to the insatiable media and the wide range of comments on media stories, I doubt if anyone has changed their attitudes about or increased their knowledge of transgenderism. Some of the comments I have read about Jenner are remarkably vicious and ignorant and probably based on fear -- of what I am not sure. To some extent CDs are always going to be left out, misunderstood and ridiculed, at least by some. Our challenge is to be who and what we are anyway, happily, fearlessly, shamelessly. If we feel left out, it's because we're looking for acceptance in the wrong places.

[Michelle789]

@adrienner99

I agree and disagree that Jenner has not changed the minds of others on transgenderism. It honestly depends on a lot of factors. At my TG support group last night, the entire hour and a half was focused on Caitlyn Jenner's coming out.

- I know of someone in my group who said that they saw a bunch of guys finding a transgender woman to be attractive.

- When I came out to this 80-year-old man last fall, he was completely opposed to this. Now that he has seen Caitlyn Jenner, he left me a message about it and is probably a bit more open to discussing TG issues, being aware of TG, and possibly coming around to acceptance. I won't know for sure. I've been recovering slowly from bronchitis since mid-April so I haven't returned his call yet. I do plan on calling him once my voice recovers a bit.

- I know several people in my group who said they had similar experiences with people who were unknowledgeable of TG learning more about us, or friends or family members who are coming around towards acceptance as a result of Caitlyn Jenner

Not everyone however will react so positively. There are three groups of people who really hate us.

1. Religious fundamentalists. Most of these people have been brainwashed by their churches and will continue to be brainwashed and are just not open to any idea that goes against their religious beliefs. This even has an effect on transpeople who were raised in such backgrounds - many of them have high amounts of internalized transphobia and had a much more difficult time coming out to themselves because of seeing themselves as abominations.

2. TERFS. These people are potentially worse, because unlike people who grew up in religious fundamentalist homes who were brainwashed, most of these people were not raised in TERF families, but rather on their own accord chose to be this way, for whatever reasons unknown. I don't know of any TERFS personally so I don't really have any insight into how they think, but my guess is they're so riled up about how bad men are that they will only see transwomen as perverted men who invade women's spaces, and transmen as women who betrayed the call of womanhood to attempt to achieve male privilege.

3. People who are too smart for their own good. In AA, we are taught that you can never be too dumb for recovery, but some people are too smart, and sadly some of these kind of people will never recover from alcoholism. I personally know of people like this both in and out of AA. Although I haven't met any in AA who have openly opposed my transition, I do personally know of three such people who are not in AA. My father, my brother, and this guy who is in his early 40s. My father and brother don't touch alcohol, and the other guy has been know to drink irresponsibly and to get violent when drunk. I would probably guess this category is mostly male but there could be females like this too. All three of them have one thing in common. They are all too smart for their own good.

Here are some things I have noticed in their behavior and thinking.

- They think WAY too much - they are probably extreme Thinkers on the MBTI. No offense to anyone who scored as T - there are some fine thinking types out there, especially those who are moderate thinking types. Also, keep in mind that "feelers" do think. Everybody thinks. Some more than others, and we all think differently, but everybody thinks.

- They question everything.

- They are not easily swayed. Most people can be swayed by Caitlyn Jenner, religious fundamentalists, AA, a doctor's opinion, the internet. These "too smart" people aren't swayed by anything. They will question Caitlyn Jenner (or Bruce to them because most of them will never see her as Caitlyn). Most of them will question religious fundamentalists, AA, doctors, and anything on the internet. They even critically question science. They are inherently skeptical about everything.

- They are not easily succumbed to peer pressure. They will typically not drink because other people are drinking. There are exceptions, and there are some who might drink to numb out, but usually not to fit in.

- They don't have a lot of friends - they either have no friends or very few friends. There are exceptions, and if they do have friends they will likely influence their friend's way of thinking rather than the other way around.

- They are very soul sickened. Something traumatic may have happened to them when they were younger to trigger this kind of response.

- They believe that most people are stupid, beneath them, and are easily brainwashed by religious fundamentalist, pop culture, or easily give in to peer pressure to drink or smoke.

- They have the worst of male egos.

- Will argue that "other people" - religious fundamentalists, drinkers, people who are into pop culture, gays, transgender people, people in AA, people who have a life - are all unhappy

- Will say that they are more "enlightened" than others, and that they are happier than those "unenlightened" people

- Are probably some of the most unhappy people in the world. I would probably say that most religious fundamentalists are probably happier people.

- Have no life. Probably spend most of their time in front of their computers.

- Will tell you that everything in life is ultimately a path to self-destruction

- Will likely call themselves "liberals" while being just as closed-minded as fundamentalist Christians. They are not centrists nor liberals. They are self-centered, closed-minded, egotistical, self-absorbed people.

- Will accuse psychologists of being ultra liberals who simply tell you what you want to, while at the same time will criticize religious fundamentalists for being closed-minded bigots

- Believe that you need to take the straight and narrow path (does this sound like a fundamentalist), but their path isn't any established religion but their own sick way of thinking

- Do not believe in any established religion, and are usually atheists

- Will spend excessive amounts of time talking against established religion

- They believe that everything is "shit" in this world, and will spend excessive amounts of time talking about what's wrong with this world


They will question the science behind gender variance. They will say that gender dysphoria isn't real, and that something else is causing us to feel the way we do.

- Asperger's

- being a gay man who hasn't accepted being a gay man, or wants to be a woman in order to attract men

- being a failure as a man

- having succumbed to peer pressure

- having been brainwashed by the transgender community

- having come in contact with wrong company

- having smoke in your head

- being mentally ill

- your just a fetishist who is taking your fantasy too far


They might also cite scientific reasons why we can never be women. They will say that we have

- male DNA

- male bone structure

- male reproductive organs

- male anatomy

- male hormones


They might also say that we have a testosterone deficiency, or that taking male hormones can masculinize the brain. Contrast this to a religious fundamentalist who might think that they can "pray the demon out of us."

How do I know so much about these "too smart" people. I grew up with two of them. I know very well how they think. These people are real. If you are unfortunate to have one in your life, they will try to talk you out of transitioning using scientific arguments and or excessive amounts of logic. So much logic that they end up sounding very illogical.

These kinds of people, will NEVER change. They will never be swayed by Caitlyn Jenner, nor by anyone else. I see more hope for a religious fundamentalist or even a TERF being swayed. Most religious fundamentalists are people who have been swayed by brainwashing from their churches and families. Although they have lots of brainwashing to overcome, there is a chance some of them might be swayed by Jenner. Of course, many of these people will be the ones who try to form a backlash against us.

Are these people dangerous. Probably not unless one of them gets any kind of power, but if they do, they can be more dangerous than TERFs or religious fundamentalists. Some of these people might become doctors, and have negatively influenced the medical community about 30-40 years ago. They convinced us that being transgender is just some mental illness. They are the ones who created all these barriers to transition. They are people like Blanchard, who believe that MTF TSes are either fetishists living out a fantasy, or gay men who are attempting to attract a male partner, and not as women.

I also found an article about Caitlyn Jenner, which was anti-trans, written by such a guy. Here it is, and you can see for yourself the logical idiocy behind his argument. He essentially called transwomen "mentally ill crossdressers."

http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/bruce-jenner-is-not-a-woman-he-is-a-sick-and-delusional-man/

[Julogden]

If you want visibility, the answer is very simple. Be visible.

I know some of you are. You are very brave, btw, to be visible, because you face the same discrimination people like me do, and you don't have to. You can pass for cisgender. And I know what really sucks is that there are members in my part of the community who have historically been hostile to CDs. (It's gone both ways, believe me.) But do know that some of us have your back and are on your side. Please believe me when I tell you that. We do not want to do to you what gays and lesbians have done to bisexuals, or until really damned recently, to transgender people. We watched it happen to us, it sucked, and I believe many of us are not keen on repeating the mistakes that were made with us.

But until more of you come out and are visible, until you define yourselves in ways people can't argue with, people are going to think whatever they want to think about you, and define you as you see fit.

This is cruel, it is awful, and it is highly unfair.

And if I didn't believe it was the truth, I wouldn't say it.

Absolutely! That's the answer, couldn't have said it better. :)

[MelanieAnne]

I don't feel left out at all. In fact, I hope I continue to be left out. Numerous studies show that most, maybe as much as 95% of crossdressers are heterosexual. I have managed to keep my dressing private all of my adult life. But if I were discovered, I would not want anyone to think maybe I was going to transition. I just enjoy being smooth shaved all over and wearing short slithery dresses, a thong, and sandals from time to time. Errr, well, most of the time now. But I have never considered transitioning, nor would I ever. I still think some of those who transition are making a big mistake. When the boys and the testosterone are gone, it has to have some effect on their feelings and thought process. And not to be cruel, but few men who transition, wind up looking like they think they will look. You can take hormones by the pound, and you still have big shoulders, and a narrow waist, and muscular legs, etc. I'd like to see some studies or interviews of those who have transitioned, several years later.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

Michelle, as I was reading your description of the " too smart" people my mind automatically went to the author of the article you cited. I read that piece too and found it to be disturbing, but also a good reminder of the arguments we have to be able to stand up against.

There is one aspect of that article that I do think deserves some careful consideration. In spite of how strongly we may feel feminine, unless we were actually raised as girls and experienced everything they do as we grew up, there is a pretty wide psychological gulf between us and GGs. I doubt very few of us experienced being told that what we could aspiret to be professionally was limited because of our sex. Nor did many of us have male figures who would comfort and protect us almost by instinct. How many of us born and raised as males were encouraged to form strong emotional bonds with our friends? So I think that, except in the case of severe gender dysphoria, it is pushing things to claim a transgender person knows what its like to be a woman. Only a woman who has spent her whole life as one really knows what it is like.

[arbon]

Hi everyone:

I have yet to see a man come out and just say "hey, i like to wear women's clothes from time to time".

The man the wrote the Vanity Fair article of Caitlyn did come out and say on TV the he was a crossdresser. It was actually the 2nd time he has publicly revealed this

[Marcelle]

. . . But so far the discussion seems to be rather shallow and perhaps is creating a new stereotype and that is that transgender people want to constantly live as a member of the opposite gender - maybe with or without SRS. There is little or no conversation about gender fluid persons who cross between male and female mode but primarily retain the identity of their birth gender . . . So now is the new stereotype of someone who is transgender a boy who is now a girl? (or vice versa) And presumably the boy who is now a girl likes all girly things? And has abandoned all boy things? . . . I'm not sure we are seeing a big step forward yet - and potentially a step backward - back to the presumption that we are all gay.

Hi Lacey,

Unfortunately, you see little dialogue about those of us caught in between because it can be difficult for some (okay many) to fathom anything outside of a neat binary. Heck we even do so ourselves as a community from time to time on posts. Specifically some here espouse you are either in the transitioning club or you are just a cross dresser. Neither of which describe me. Now I will fall on my sword and be the first to admit, the position that you are either "in or out" makes logical sense as even a spectrum has to have two sides. However, ignoring the middle ground (la, la, la I can't hear you :notlistening:) makes it difficult for many to find a zone of comfort without feeling as though they are an outsider.

As much as I try to educate those around me I still get "so you want to become a woman?" To which I reply "No, I want to be the person I was meant to be and if that means being a woman one day and a guy the next that is my comfort zone right now". I believe that binaries help those who don't truly understand, accept what is going on and provide some amount of tolerance . . . "Okay, this guy wants to become a woman, will medically do so in some form or another and live full time as a woman. Got it. Don't understand it but I can accept that as he has made the decision to do it so I can respect that." However, tell some people (not everyone . . . just some) you just feel a need to be a woman sometimes and irrespective of whether they come from the Vanilla world or our community, this is what you normally get "Why would you want to do that, it doesn't make sense? You are either a guy or a girl? . . . What is this some sort of fun hobby? How can you possibly be both genders, just commit and get on with it? . . . You can't say you are woman and still and live partially as a man. Doesn't make sense? :raisedeyebrow::thinking:




I've recently read a couple of articles that specifically discuss the need to update U.S. military policy to allow transgender people to serve openly without risk of being discharged. But the examples of currently serving TGs were all ones undergoing HRT or planning to transition. Until the media is willing to consider CDers and non-binary persons part of the TG umbrella then there will always be a missing element to the story. Of course that presupposes a CD or what have you is willing to open up publically to the media. I wonder if Isha would be willing to weigh in on this aspect?

Hi Bridget,

Acceptance of TG persons in the Canadian military has been a fact of policy since the early 90s. Indeed I remember when the first trans-woman came forward and started transitioning. There was no policy in place and so in true administrative fashion one was written . . . our current version. Now, this policy was written by two policy folks, an infantry officer and a JAG lawyer both of whom knew nothing about being TG. It was written in a cold policy and clinical manner . . . "If you are doing A then B, C, and D will happen". When I first decided to out myself at work, I read the policy and quickly realized that it was out of date and while it definitely helped those who were TS it did nothing for anyone in my case . . . "You want to what? Dress like a woman on some days and a man on others? What does the policy say? Nothing in the policy about playing dress-up . . . sorry son that dog don't hunt." Now it was not that bad but the policy was a sticking point when I first approached and indicated I might be considering workplace accommodation. As such, a working group was convened to discuss the policy and expand the scope of the definition of TG to include those caught in between.

Hugs

Isha

[bimini1]

To me it can only be all good and I do not feel left out at all. To me CD and TS is just like opposite sides of the same coin. And the coin is worth TG. Some days I feel blessed to be alive right in the midst of a burgeoning trains revolution of sorts that's going on in the world. Some days I wish it wasn't so stirred up as it forces me out of my comfort zone to have to listen to all the backlash coming from those closest to me who are rampantly phobic of all things trains and gay (extended family, co-workers, etc)
But at the end of the day I still feel it to be good for us all. The average cisgender person who sees you out and about is not about to start wondering to themselves, hmm....is this person TS or CD? To them it's all the same thing.

[flatlander_48]

"You want to what? Dress like a woman on some days and a man on others? What does the policy say? Nothing in the policy about playing dress-up . . . sorry son that dog don't hunt."

And therein lies the rub...

My company has a policy that allows gender expression; no problem with that. However, I think the intent was to provide an accomodation to those somewhere along the road to transitioning. The important point is one of consistent presentation. It does not cover back and forth.

Since the Canadian military already had the concept of Workplace Accomodation, that seems to be a significant part of the battle. In civilian settings, the social situation of the workplace is much less structured. Seems like it would be a much more difficult deal to work through.

DeeAnn

[chinabrown]

I don`t feel left out because I am not a transgender activist.If I was out there fighting for TG rights I would feel a need to be heard.