Survey on pronouns

[alwayshave]

I do surveys for a survey company (yougov.com), the following was a followup question to the main survey. My answer was c. I'm not sure if I am mad about the 20% for a, or happy that it was not larger. I saw the 29% for e as very positive.

When is it appropriate to change the pronoun you use to refer to a transgender person from his or her birth gender to her or his new gender identity?
a) Never 20%
b) After gender reassignment surgery 12%
c) Once the person exhibits the public appearance of a given gender 8%
d) Once the person begins any medical treatment 4%
e) As soon as the person identifies as transgender 29%
f) Not sure 26%
All US adults, 06/01/15

[Meghan4now]

Well answer c needs to be excluded as it makes too much sense.

[Ceera]

My answer would be C. If a person presents as female, they should be addressed with female pronouns. That goes for CD folk as well as TG's.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

While I think C is the best answer, I would have liked to have seen an option for "when official records have been changed".

[Ezekiel]

My answer would be C. If a person presents as female, they should be addressed with female pronouns. That goes for CD folk as well as TG's.

Should not you ask first if we are talking about crossdressers? Because I wear female clothes many times a week yet I myself don't want my pronouns changed. Crossdressing does not make you any less of a man, even if society leads people believe so.


I would have liked to have seen an option for "when official records have been changed".

This would be a good answer too.

[Sarah-RT]

I would go with C, but obviously it's the persons preference.
When dressed if people said she and her I would think it was great but if they used my male name it would be fine too since that's who I am.

It's good to see that the bulk of answers were spread through the progressive questions rather than never.

Sarah x

[bridget thronton]

I think whenever the person requests the use of the new pronouns

[sometimes_miss]

I think whenever the person requests the use of the new pronouns

^I'm going with that one. Refer to someone the way they want, just like you call them the name they request. Way too many women can't figure out when and if they want to be referred to as girls and who can call them that. Then if you call a woman 'ma'am' and she feels that's a term for old ladies, she gets upset too. So we have the same right. Call us what we want to be called. After all, young urban guys want to be referred to 'wut up, dog'. Fine. some people want to be called animals. Whatever.....

[Shelly Preston]

I would respectfully suggest the correct answer is not even listed.

Normally the Pronouns should match the Gender you see presented before you.

Any individual should decide when/if they want you to use different pronouns

[carhill2mn]

Of the choices listed, I would choose "C". However, I would say that a public appearance is not necessary for one to want to be addressed as one is presenting.

[Annette_boy]

I have to agree with Shelly . One should use the pronouns consistent with how the person is presenting. So for example a CD would switch back and forth depending on how they were dressed at the moment.

Hugs Annette

[AllieSF]

I will also go with using pronouns based on how one is presenting with the following caveat. It should be very clear that they are presenting as (not just like) the opposite gender. The best answer would be to respect their presentation and then have the person being addressed correct or indicate what pronouns they would prefer. This will not always work when someone is presenting a mixed message with clothes and accessories of both genders. Then the wearer/presenter needs to step up and help out.

[Jean 103]

I was asked this question last Wednesday night by Misty the bar manager, while we were talking. I told her to address me as a girl but it doesn’t bother me if someone addresses me as a guy. This GG I was sitting with is bigger than me, doesn’t wear makeup, has a deeper voice then me, and most guys for that matter. She told me she gets addressed as mister all the time.
Love Jean

[Richelle]

I think it should be a combination of C and E. If the person does not know who they are talking to, then they should go with C. Once they know each other transgender person needs to indicate their preference.

Richelle

[reb.femme]

As the old exam adage goes, "if in doubt, answer C".

I'm in with the majority here, pronoun as per presentation, then the person concerned can voice his/her preference. After all, I'm not a mind reader. :)

Rebecca

[Lorileah]

While I think C is the best answer, I would have liked to have seen an option for "when official records have been changed".

Can I ask a question on that? Exactly what records?

In truth that would be one of the worst answers as it only applies to people who transition. I wanted to be called "she" as soon as that's how I looked. How do you know when they start medical treatment (we don't wear tags), How would you know when they has GRS (we don't wear tags). "Never" will get you my undying hatred...

So the real answer is...this is a question that has no answer, everyone would be different.

[Katey888]

I'm not going to be drawn into offering an answer because I'm not a US adult... ;)

Interesting answers...

I too would be concerned about the prospect of 63 million people believing that TGs should never be offered any change of pronoun (simple scaling for the USA) - that is a lot of votes.... I wonder if those responses are concentrated in specific localities...?

And I suspect 'not sure' probably equals 'don't care' in most cases...

Isn't it time we had our own pronoun? :thinking:

he - she - fab..? :)

Katey x

[heatherdress]

80% surveyed indicate they support or acknowledge a pronoun gender change as appropriate. They are just not sure when. I think that is terrific progress. 10 years ago, 80% would have answered "never".

[ReineD]

Hmm. I'll go with E "as soon as the person identifies as transgender" (although I'm not sure that this means .... transsexual? woman? bigender?), because I think it's best to ask everyone how they want to be called and referred to.

I say this because I've met a number of CDers who feel awkward being referred to as "she", or even being addressed by the female names they usually invent to join online forums.

I don't think we can assume that everyone who dresses identifies as a woman or as a mixed gender.

[Teresa]

I feel there's some confusion over the question, transgendered and transsexual appear to be lumped together, many on the forum prefer transgendered to crossdresser but it doesn't mean to permanently change gender as a TS does.
I guess e) applies in most cases.

[Donnagirl]

Am I the only one who really doesn't care... Because I mostly go out with my wife and work colleagues I get a mix of pronouns and names, but the same is also true in boy mode at home and, increasingly at work.... I'll answer to either, regardless of what I'm wearing... I guess it's hard to break the established habits and I think its bit precious to keep correcting people. It is, however a little unusual to be told I'm a 'good girl' when I'm all bald head, suit and tie!!! Still makes me smile though!!

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

Can I ask a question on that? Exactly what records?

In truth that would be one of the worst answers as it only applies to people who transition. I wanted to be called "she" as soon as that's how I looked. How do you know when they start medical treatment (we don't wear tags), How would you know when they has GRS (we don't wear tags). "Never" will get you my undying hatred...

So the real answer is...this is a question that has no answer, everyone would be different.

Records could mean anything from a driver's license to a birth certificate. I only brought it up as something to include in a survey of public opinion. I think there are some folks who won't accept a change in someone's identification unless there is a legal justification. It would be informative to know how many see things that way. As I said I go with C myself given the choices, but I think most of us believe it should be whatever and whenever the individual wants.

And my reading of the survey question is that it is specifically about people who transition. But let's not get into that whole argument again.

Bridget

[Victoria Demeanor]

Like most surveys and statistics I think you really have to look at them with a large grain of salt. There are so many variables that they can easily be misconstrued and very easily be misinterpreted. unfortunately many people base important decisions on numbers without knowing what they are based on.

In this case I went to the web site (yougov.com) and did my research. After looking at the data base of transgender questions and political questions, i found it interesting to see the demographic of the voting group. I found that the largest voting group in this site, when it came to these questions was quite interesting and substantial compared to others. This group was white, southern, females, age 45-65, identifying as democrat or independent. (the last parameter was too close to call) What I found really interesting was that this group had the lowest acceptance rate towards transgenders or at least in the two pertinent questions I looked at. Then again this was just a quick snapshot, though I thought it would be the opposite.
Okay, that said and sorry, I love analogizing stats. For me noun of these answers are correct nor is the question valid. It's too general and too open. It really depends on the person and what they prefer you address them as. I'll use the pronoun as they present, unless they tell me differently and if I'm not sure I'll ask and respect their wishes.
but that's just me and my two cents...

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Crossdressing does not make you any less of a man, even if society leads people believe so.

Hmmm. Being crossdressed certainly makes you less manly, so how far do we split this particular hair? We bend over backwards to feminise ourselves, shaving our chest and leg hair, wearing fake boobs, being gentler, more in touch with our emotions, but we still want to be thought of as men? Who are we kidding?

The answer clearly is C, but would I have known that before I joined CD.com? I'm not 100% sure.

[Lorileah]

Records could mean anything from a driver's license to a birth certificate. I only brought it up as something to include in a survey of public opinion.


but again I ask...how would you know? It would be a moot question because anyone can get a name change...some states let you change gender marker without hormones....

I fully understand the survey, like MOST surveys it is skewed to get the answers the researcher wants.

[alwayshave]

I found that the largest voting group in this site, when it came to these questions was quite interesting and substantial compared to others. This group was white, southern, females, age 45-65, identifying as democrat or independent. (the last parameter was too close to call) What I found really interesting was that this group had the lowest acceptance rate towards transgenders or at least in the two pertinent questions I looked at. Then again this was just a quick snapshot, though I thought it would be the opposite.

Well, I'm white, I suppose DC is the south (below the PA MD line), I am 45-65 and independent, and sometimes identify as female, so I guess I fit the group well.

[Stephanie47]

I'm going to put my two cents in. In the past I've been contacted by persons doing legitimate surveys. I say legitimate because the survey is truly one for gauging public opinion. Yes, I took courses in colleges dealing with surveys. Many of the survey questions have built in faults. I do not know if there was questions prior to this questions or an informational presentation made before handing out the survey. This survey does not define terminology. Was the person told a definition of "transgender?" The question in my mind clearly in gauging opinion for those persons who are "transsexual," i.e., the soul is trapped in the opposite physical body.

Before joining this forum I always thought "transgender" = "transsexual." I personally think the vast majority of adults think the same way. I am a "cross dresser." I like wearing women's clothing. I don't know why and I no longer care that I don't know. If someone were to ask me to self identify myself I will always state I am a cross dresser, and, I am not transgender. I am a man who enjoys wearing women's clothing.

I believe this question would get an "F" in my survey class. My answer is none of the above, which is totally different than "Not Sure."

[jigna]

I am also a "cross dresser." and I like wearing women's clothing. I don't know why.
If someone were to ask me to self identify myself I will not have any courage to state I am a cross dresser, and, I am not transgender.
I am a man who enjoys wearing women's clothing.

[MonctonGirl]

My answer is not on there;

The LEGAL address should correspond with what gender is indicated on the govt issued ID.
( That is, it should not be considered discriminatory nor libelous etc etc to address them by what record the govt states as true.)

Of course it is subject to discretion - such as...
- when a retail saleslady, hairdresser, medical receptionist or other person believes they can accommodate & show respect and
general good faith by addressing them by the other gender "if advised/asked" ( kinda like "consent" for sex - often a grey area )
... but they should not be deemed as committing an act of discrimination if they use the address indicated by the govt issued ID.
There needs to be that rule so that there is a clear legal "ok" way to do things when there is confusion.

Such as in Court or other legal matters - or say for example when a TG person wants to join a Women's Only Gym
and access locker rooms, showers, etc.

But then there is the question of whether a person with testes and penile extension can be legally deemed female,
or if a person with a vagina can be deemed male.

What would be good though is a universal pronoun for males and female
- such as how Mz. was developed to be and ambiguous female marital status pronoun
used in place of Miss ( unmarried ) and Mrs. ( married ) - to avoid the same type of thing.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

but again I ask...how would you know? It would be a moot question because anyone can get a name change...some states let you change gender marker without hormones.

You would know the same way you would know if answering D) when a person begins medical treatments. You would know because a) the TG person has informed you him/her self of a change in legal status or b) you heard about the change in status through common communication channels like friends, social media, etc. There is a third option here since to change anything about your legal status requires a court action, court records are publicly available so you could know that way.

I think a good example of a person who would not want to use a TG's preferred pronoun unless it was a legal change would be a very conservative politician making public statements about the TG person. Although the pol would not personally accept the change he or she would find it politically expedient to use the new pronoun to avoid sounding intolerant while justifying the change to the base constituents as just going by what the law says. That said, I was actually surprised when Rick Santorum, hardly a moderate Republican on social issues, referred to Caitlyn Jenner as she. There may be hope left.

[AbigailJordan]

Well, as many here, I would say C.. If I'm just sat at home chilling in some nice clothes and a friend comes round.. I fully expect to be addressed as male.. if I get all done up and present as female.. then yes it's nice when people refer to me in the feminine.. however I think it's a case of.. whilst that is the most appropriate point at which to switch pronouns.. I think many of the CD/TV members don't really care too much about it.

I can only assume that it's a little different for those transitioning to any degree. Perhaps they prefer the pronoun switch from the very start.. perhaps they too wait until they are far enough along their path to present full or part time as female (as this is the MtF forum.. just as valid for FtMs though).

[char GG]

In my experience, I think wives find it hard/awkward/weird, etc --- to call their crossdressed husbands a "she" when he goes home, takes off his dress, gets in the shower, and is obviously a "he".

[Claire Cook]

I think is just Common Courtesy to use the pronouns that are appropriate for how a person presents, if gender is not otherwise obvious.

So i see this as a C.

Claire (CC!)

[Greenie]

Oh I totally think its e. But I know people who idenitfy as dual gender, or genderfluid. Its very common at our support group in Seattle that there are many people who go by they, or use pronouns opposite their appearance. I hope we all move towards just asking instead of assuming.

Lucas for example, when in womens clothes, still wants to be a he. So c, would be an inappropriate answer for him, as well as many other CD's on this forum or at the groups we meet. They is a common identifier.

I think that as a community, we should be more hesitant of assuming we know someones gender identity just because they are wearing a skirt.

[Carla4Guage]

Is the proper response not C,D & E ?

[Ezekiel]

Oh I totally think its e. But I know people who idenitfy as dual gender, or genderfluid. Its very common at our support group in Seattle that there are many people who go by they, or use pronouns opposite their appearance. I hope we all move towards just asking instead of assuming.

Lucas for example, when in womens clothes, still wants to be a he. So c, would be an inappropriate answer for him, as well as many other CD's on this forum or at the groups we meet. They is a common identifier.

I think that as a community, we should be more hesitant of assuming we know someones gender identity just because they are wearing a skirt.

Exactly, I can't agree more. I'm quite surprised that you all fall into society's trap of "assuming by appearances", while at the same time you claim the exact opposite thing saying that gender is in the brain not the body. Quite contradictory.

Just as when you don't know a person's name until you go ahead and ask them, you should consider asking their gender preference too in situations when you meet a transgender individual, whatever their nature might be.

Im a man, whether Im dressed up pretty or not, and I can tell you I prefer "he". Don't asume I'm a "she" just because I'm dressed in female associated clothes. Even If I'm one of the few exceptions, its always better to ask.

[ReineD]

I think that as a community, we should be more hesitant of assuming we know someones gender identity just because they are wearing a skirt.

This has been my experience too. So "E" is a good choice. Ask first, and if they identify as such or want you to use the feminine pronouns, then do.

[Meganfla]

I would agree with most, C is my choice.
Meg

[NicoleScott]

Ask first seems like a very bad idea. I don't want to be asked, when shopping en femme, "should I call you sir or ma'am?" (OK, they aren't pronouns). Who gets asked? Anybody who looks "questionable?". That's going to upset a lot of people, like guys with no gender issues but who like to dress somewhat feminine, women who have a masculine look, and others. It's only logical to use pronouns matching a person's presentation, unless/until that person states a preference.
I agree with Stephanie47 that it's a bad question, and so are the answer choices.
If I'm ever asked if I'm transgender, I would need a definition before answering.

[Samantha Clark]

Isn't it time we had our own pronoun? :thinking:

he - she - fab..? :)

Katey x

I agree! How about "hermit," a combination of her, him, it? :heehee: Or how about she, he, it? Oops, maybe not! :eek:

I read the other day that a new honorific is out there: Mx. pronounced, appropriately, "mix" used instead of Mr. or Ms.

[Jaymees22]

I think "C" because it is who you would "See". If in doubt just say "Hi".

[Collette Z]

If someone feels more comfortable referring to Collette as a 'him' or Ted as a 'her', then it's not me that feels silly...