Throwing in the towel

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

Before anyone asks . . . the title does not mean I am quitting or putting on hold my dressing. Okay to be honest, I though the title might grab your attention better than my original choice "Coming to a realization" as that sounds a bit boring :heehee:

As some have read, I have had a busy week coming to terms with my chain of command on workplace accommodation which has been granted and far beyond my hopes to include both the ability to draw female uniforms and grow my hair out should I choose. To say the least I was on a bit of a high all week thinking about how nice it would be to wake up on a given day feeling female and be able to present myself as such. Then it dawned on me . . . I had actually thought "feeling female" :eek:. Now some might think . . . big deal so you thought "feeling female". However, if you look back through my posts I have been quite consistent with my take that I always think of myself as a male first and foremost irrespective of how I am dressed. Yet the concept of "feeling female" felt as natural as saying "feeling male" even though I still cannot define what either term means. This was a bit disconcerting as I had never thought this before and it just slipped out in my mind.

So yesterday while I was running (where I normally do all my thinking) I gave this revelation some serious thought. Was I slipping further down the pathway toward being TS or was I still firmly planted somewhere between (gender fluid is a term I tend to use)? I mean, I still like my guy side but with the revelation that I would soon be free to express myself female at work when I choose or grow my hair out to be more gender congruent with my female presentation, I have to admit I can see my presentation sliding from 60/40 (male/female) to 60/40 or perhaps 70/30 (female/male). However, I do not seek nor desire HRT (it has been offered by my therapist and medical system) nor to I seek surgery (again offered by my medical system within the confines of medical protocol that is). I may experience days when I feel "female" not "male" but I do not look in the mirror and hate what I see staring back (boy physiology that is). Was I just confused? Lost in the pink fog of probabilities sort to speak?

It was at about the 15 kilometer mark that it suddenly hit me . . . that like my morning runs this was a journey with a route and sometimes I might deviate from the route but I will always end up at the same finish point. "Huh . . . what the heck does that mean Isha?" :confused: It means that I realized that while I may have only recently come out (just over a year and half ago), I have always been on this route and have just deviated (32 years of deviation to be exact) but am now on the final push to my own finish line. What does that mean to me? Well, it means I now know that part of me definitely identifies female but part of me also identifies male albeit that part is loosing ground but still remains intact. Would my male side disappear completely? To be honest, there are no answers in life especially on this crazy roller coaster. What I can say is that right now I don't feel as though I could "kill off" the male side of me without loosing some part of me anymore than I could "kill off" female side of me without loosing who I am.

So I will throw in the towel and admit to all that I am more closely aligned to the TS side of the spectrum than I would have admitted even a month ago. Now before people begin to "high five" and proclaim "I called it months ago" :^5: remember, this is a journey of sorts for all of us and realization takes time and each of us is only an epiphany away from our own realization. However, I will concede that yes some of you probably called it long before I realized it. Does that mean I will transition all the way? Right now . . . no. However, as much as some will argue until they are blue in the face that I am just a part-timer who can still fall back on "being guy" when it suits me, I will still posit that I am transitioning in my own way. Everyone important to me knows, I will most likely begin to work one or two days a week as a woman which means living that day as a woman and there may be times where that could stretch out for a week or two. I am guessing at that point my ability to "play the man card" disappears n'est pas. Even on those days when I am presenting male to the world, my female side will always be there interjecting her own sense of self into my male world. So right now, I am still running down the pathway but I can now see my final destination a bit more clearly in that I am both male and female timesharing one body which both genders appreciate and love. Am I am man or am I woman . . . neither . . . I am a person who wants to live her/his life as best as she/he can.

BTW before anyone asks, after my run, I sat my wife down and we discussed this in depth and she is still 100 percent supportive of this shift in thought. :)

Hugs

Isha

[steftoday]

Thanks for sharing all that, Isha. Whatever the future holds for you, I wish you peace. We all have to figure this out for ourselves, and to see where the road takes us.

[mykell]

soo its a marathon not a sprint, you have a good outlook for which ever path you choose to run....and blessed with a wife who is truly understanding !

[flatlander_48]

I:

One thing that occurs to me as a difference between male and female is perspective. We can Accept or we can Shape. I think females tend to Accept the world as it is and work within that context to get what they want. Males tend to get what they want by Shaping things to their desires. There is no right or wrong to my way of thinking, and sometimes females Shape and males Accept. However, I think there is a predisposition to view things in a certain way to begin with.

DeeAnn

[Laura912]

The longer one looks in the mirror, the more one sees.

[Donnagirl]

Isha,

Again we share so much... I've totally given up being male (in totality) but admit I'm not female. I sort of drift between the two with one being dominant but never to the absolute exclusion of the other... My days definitely are more of one than the other, but I'm yet to gain the advantages you have at work. My employer can accomodate a transition, if I present female from now til retirement then no problems... A fluid state is way beyond them presently and not something even on the negotiation floor currently. Best I can do is a slow, incremental approach... Painted nails and diamond studs are as much as I can do.

I think that, for us, TS is not the applicable term. It may be much later in life when the the 'female dominant' mindset becomes normal and those male days are distant memories. Then the desire to ensure external matches internal will become more irresistible. Until then, well it's a relentless progression but it's not a rapid one...

You first.... I'm happy to stay 'arse end Charlie' and just stay following your lead...

[Claire Cook]

Isha,

You've really struck a chord here. Yesterday was a bad day for me. I've done a number of guy things in the past that I am not proud of, and these kept weighing on my mind leading to a day-long depression funk. Talking this over with Sue we came to the realization that much of this came from my trying to be somebody that I really am not. It was she who finally said "You really need to make Claire more of your life." So be it.

I, and I am sure others, really identify with your statement that "I am guessing at that point my ability to"play the man card" disappears n'est pas. Even on those days when I am presenting male to the world, my female side will always be there interjecting her own sense of self into my male world." While I am not at the point of presenting as female to my co-workers, my female side is getting stronger -- and I think makes me a better person. Like you, I have no intention of HRT or surgery -- but I know that Claire needs to be a bigger part of where I am.

Thanks for sharing this. Each of us has our own path on this journey we are on.

... and oh, if the thought hit you at 15k, how long is your daily run?

Hugs,

Claire

[kimdl93]

Time will tell. I don't believe that the experiences of others are predictive, but they can be informative. In my own experience, I observed that my alignment on the spectrum certainly has shifted. Was this because I changed I some fundamental way, or because I increasingly able to recognize a fundamental that was already present? Hard to say, and perhaps it doesn't matter.

What matters is how you feel right now, personally, in your marriage and other significant relationships. How you define yourself may evolve or reveal itself differently in a year or five, but today you seem to be in a very good place.

[flatlander_48]

I've done a number of guy things in the past that I am not proud of, and these kept weighing on my mind leading to a day-long depression funk.

CC:

Remember that we cannot undo the past. The most useful thing we can do is understand it and carry that information forward for future use. Dwelling on it serves no good purpose.

DeeAnn

[DMichele]

Isha,

First I must say that I enjoy reading your posts. Many are thought provoking, and coupled with the gains you have experienced in your workplace, have had a positive impact on me recognizing who I am. Many, many thanks.

Also, I envy your ability to express your feminine side when out and about and now at your workplace.

I can so relate to your realization that you swayed to femininity as the dominant gender. For me, the realization was sort of a re-birth – and I am enjoying it. And I don’t see going back, but only a question how far I will go.

Similar to Claire, I doubt that I would ever present my feminine side in the work environment, but I will maximize my feminine under garments.

Again thanks; and I wish continued success on your journey.

[Claire Cook]

Hi DeeAnn,

I really appreciate your advice. Sue asked me why I was fussing about things that happened in the past (almost 50 years ago!) that I cannot possibly do anything about. It was the realization after all of these years that I was trying to act like someone that I wasn't that brought me out of it.

Thanks and warmest hugs,

Claire

[Candice Mae]

Isha, I'm happy for you!

Nothing makes me prouder then seeing someone with the courage to embrace who they are, there is no wrong or right just don't let others limit you. Continue to take your time in discovering yourself, don't forget to continue to grow and find the path that is for you.

[AnnieMac]

I dunno Isha . . although I really appreciate your threads and take on things in this forum, especially given your own personal situation. I wouldn't make that decision to TS-hood in the middle of a 15K run on a runners high. At least for me everything seems to make sense when I am exercising (not a runner-my knees hurt to much - but love to swim long distances). I think you need to decided that after you have worked a couple months in your female persona ( gee whatever that is, we are all figuring that out) and see whats its like to be that person. I think it will give you a clearer picture. Also you have to be careful what kind of advice and feedback you get from this forum because we are all like minded here, not the general public, and often times I think this forum persuades CD/TS girls to make the wrong decisions on transitioning, dressing in public, or coming out to a spouse, and causing a lot of unnecessary personal problems.

I am certainly closer to the male side of this TG spectrum than you are. My own personal deal and thoughts now are, am I really a full CD, that is wanting to look and present like a woman at most times, or am I just a guy that likes to, and have the freedom to wear woman's clothes from time to time, when he feels like it? Probably many like me here too. I know, I know, I already have that freedom but I'm just too chicken s**t to act on it. I know though I have no desire to transition (and even that word is now open to different levels of interpretation these days.)

Anyway, just my take on things. I have been accused however many times by friends and family of thinking like a girl. If you have read any of my posts in the past you would probably agree also! Good luck with everything Isha hun.

[Sarah-RT]

Isha, thanks for sharing. One of my own troubles I have is that I can't quite find which box to tick, originally I settled for MtF crossdresser, which mostly still stands however on some days I feel like a seismograph on the spectrum where I think transitioning will solve the shifts in desire on gender and then other days I think I'm sort of attention seeking, regret everyone I've told and let in and wish the earth would swallow me up.

I now like to think that I feel Bi-gendered, some days I'll be as macho as can be, enjoy war films, talk shop with the guys and being 6'4" I like to think I have an intimidating presence
Then another day(s) I'll dress up and long to go shopping, hang out with the girls and talk make up and beauty, run my fingers through my hair and play with it etc etc.

I'll still reach the finish point but the zig zagging off the track is the most confusing. Glad I'm not the only one stumbling through the woods

Sarah x

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

Hi Isha,

I think your recent insight is something you've know deep down all along. It's evident in your signature line. You are on this journey to find wholeness as a person. Like an old fashion two-pan scale you may find the needle swinging back and forth as new items are added to each side, but if you leave it alone long enough it will show you where your balance lies. Thank you for being so open with us as you continue to your finish line.

Bridget

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

Thanks much for you kind comments and support.



... and oh, if the thought hit you at 15k, how long is your daily run?

Hi Claire,

LOL . . . my normal morning runs are between 10 and 20 kilometers with the odd long run thrown in should the mood take me (I am a plodder not a racer) the run I was on was a 30 kilometer.


. . . I think that, for us, TS is not the applicable term. It may be much later in life when the the 'female dominant' mindset becomes normal and those male days are distant memories. Then the desire to ensure external matches internal will become more irresistible. Until then, well it's a relentless progression but it's not a rapid one...

Hi Donna,

On that I would agree. While I think I find myself aligned more toward the TS side, I still see myself as gender fluid. However, the reality of my life currently is that at times I do identify female not just a male wearing women's clothing.


I dunno Isha . . I wouldn't make that decision to TS-hood in the middle of a 15K run on a runners high. At least for me everything seems to make sense when I am exercising (not a runner-my knees hurt to much - but love to swim long distances). I think you need to decided that after you have worked a couple months in your female persona ( gee whatever that is, we are all figuring that out) and see whats its like to be that person. I think it will give you a clearer picture. Also you have to be careful what kind of advice and feedback you get from this forum because we are all like minded here, not the general public, and often times I think this forum persuades CD/TS girls to make the wrong decisions on transitioning, dressing in public, or coming out to a spouse, and causing a lot of unnecessary personal problems.

Hi Annie,

Please don't get me wrong. This was not an epiphany I hit upon solely based on one run. I have working with a gender identity therapist for over a year on this exact same issue. We spent much time at odds about my depth of gender dysphoria and she provided me the guidance and space to come to my own realization. As much as I respect many here, I would never make such a decision lightly based on misguided peer pressure. I have been reflecting on this for a very long time and it has become increasingly clear that this is who I was meant to be. Remember, I am not saying I am rushing down the road to HRT or surgery, I am taking this opportunity to do exactly what you suggested, work and live in the female guise during the week. Will it change how I feel? Most likely not as I know this is part of me and it will never go away. :)

Hugs

Isha

[Kaitlyn Michele]

If you are so into your female side that you are growing your hair and presenting female at work, you should be in therapy working this out. (perhaps you are...sorry i'm not aware of that)
You've basically prioritized female presentation over your job. If your job has a career path, it just got smacked. This is regardless of what is being said directly to you.

As you present more and more it will inform you better about why this is playing out this way. It will help you alot to spend day after day and consider your thoughts

...i found that when i started doing this on weekends, sunday night at 5am i would be sobbing in my nightgown...i couldn't bear to sleep and give up one more hour ...over time i went from thinking it was an addiction or a fetish, then as an "identity focused crossdresser"(i guess that means gender fluid) and finally it dawned on me that i was a self liar...it sucked...it was a very bad 2 years..

One thing you should know is that gender feelings are non negotiable..if you are bigendered or ts or whatever you are, it will come out.
You seem positive and open and those are really good qualities..."fighting" these feelings is a recipe for down feelings and gender dysphoria

Ts people use a cliche that the bell gets rung, and that is a permanent thing, and life changes forever, often in ways you don't want and don't anticipate. Especially if you "fight" or have big issues that prevent transition.
i found this out when it happened to me... frankly if it didn't happen to me, i wouldn't beleive it.

The bell gets rung or it doesn't but you seem to be hanging around the bell quite alot. I hope it doesn't happen to you. If it does, get the best help in therapy and best support you can and do what you think is right for yourself..it seems you have that quality already which is really good.

[AngelaYVR]

It will be interesting to see if this initial rush of euphoria pans out into what you are predicting. I think a lot of members here would be giddy at the thought of unrestricted dressing but how many would keep it up? Time will tell and, however it works out, this will certainly help you understand how you really feel about things.

Angela

[Melissa in SE Tn]

Isha, at age 60, I realize that I am in the 7th inning of my cd journey. You have the makings of throwing a no hitter. You are such a trailblazer in your domestic , professional & social life. Wherever your gender journey takes you, we all know that it will be lined with excitement , newness & peace. You have my deepest respect & thankfulness. Peace to you & your wife.. she must be incredibly special.

[MsVal]

Hi Isha,

Congratulations on all the gains you've made professionally and personally, and thank you for being so willing to share your knowledge with so many inside and outside the TG umbrella.

Even though your recent accomplishment within the CAF is remarkable and worthy of great praise, it unfortunately does not yet meet your personal needs. You identify as gender fluid, but you must choose a gender binary each work day. There does not seem to be an accommodation for someone that identifies neither as masculine or feminine much of the time.

You see, I am on a similar journey to self actualization. My path is different, but I often see you through the forest undergrowth. We may cross paths some day.

I identify as being neither masculine or feminine, but rather, a person that combines attributes of both. As time goes by and I know more about myself I find the masculine traits decreasing and the feminine traits increasing. I don't know where the journey will take me; I may transition one day, but my dear wife and I are still on the path together.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Marcelle]

If you are so into your female side that you are growing your hair and presenting female at work, you should be in therapy working this out. (perhaps you are...sorry i'm not aware of that)
You've basically prioritized female presentation over your job. If your job has a career path, it just got smacked. This is regardless of what is being said directly to you.

Hi Kaitlyn,

No apologies necessary . . . yes I am in therapy and have been for over a year. WRT my career well, let's just say I have spent 33 years in the military having started life as an infantry private with a grade 10 education. Through the military I have attained both and undergrad and graduate degree, have become a senior officer and spent the last 10 years doing something I truly enjoy. My career is winding down and yes, that has given me an amount of safety I realize many may not have. Will people see me differently or treat me different? Probable. Will it stall my career (I can serve until age 60 if I choose)? They can try but we have strict policy on harassment and discrimination in the military and this gal/guy is very used to fighting so to them that will try . . . I say good luck.

Hugs

Isha

[Tracii G]

Isha I wish the best for you on your journey.

[Julie Denier]

You have come such a long way here and provided us with so many wonderful though-provoking insights. I wish you nothing but the best as you continue discovering Isha ;)

[jigna]

I have a special regards fo Army people.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

oh thats an excellent situation for you then..

i wasn't really talking about protection from harassment...i was more just commenting office politics and dog eat dog world if you were on the ladder.

i have found that there is a lot of lip service to courage and willingness to accept difference but in the business world the follow through is a lot less than that talk..

[Dianne S]

Good luck, Isha, to you and your wife.

[Teresa]

Isha,
I think many of us thought you had everything under control, your life was in order, it just goes to show how strong our identity issues are and what it takes to resolve them !
As I said on a previous thread of yours, at least you have the support and understanding of thoughtful wife wife who still values what she has .
It really is so hard when you keep banging against a brick wall, most mornings thinking when walking the dog that I can get through this, my life has good things in it and yet part of me just isn't relating to it !

[pamela7]

I feel it, Isha. There are days when I feel like wanting "the whole hog", and days when I feel I'm done with it, and I'm letting it flow.
I do feel I suppress/hide the probable inevitability of where I'm heading. It's not our conscious fears at play I fear, it's the unconscious.

Wishing you joy wherever this leads.

xxx Pamela

[stefan37]

There is no control over GD. When it's your time it's your time. Those that have no idea what I'm talking about. Great. For those when "it's their time" will know exactly what I'm talking about. Kaitlyn referred to it as "ringing the bell". I was in the same place as you Isha 6 years ago. Life Was tolerable as a male yet had this urge to let the world see my feminine side. That inner urge for stronger and so intense I had to accept reality and have been full time for 2 years. I hope transition is not your path. But just know that if it happens you had no control. It's in you and probably always has been.

[Jenny Elwood]

And the Venus flytrap lures another. Personally I think you've spent too much time on this forum... it clouds the thinking. Sorry, I can't be "supportive", though I sometimes experience my own TS issues.

Good luck Isha, you're gonna need it. (And sorry for being the wet blanket).

[Persephone]

:^5: :hugs: Yes, Isha, I am going to both high five and hug you because you are one terrific person.

May your happiness continue to increase.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[ReineD]

However, if you look back through my posts I have been quite consistent with my take that I always think of myself as a male first and foremost irrespective of how I am dressed. Yet the concept of "feeling female" felt as natural as saying "feeling male" even though I still cannot define what either term means.

The part of your quote that I bolded is the most difficult thing for people like me to understand, so please bear with me ...



Was I slipping further down the pathway toward being TS or was I still firmly planted somewhere between (gender fluid is a term I tend to use)? I mean, I still like my guy side but with the revelation that I would soon be free to express myself female at work when I choose or grow my hair out to be more gender congruent with my female presentation, I have to admit I can see my presentation sliding from 60/40 (male/female) to 60/40 or perhaps 70/30 (female/male). However, I do not seek nor desire HRT (it has been offered by my therapist and medical system) nor to I seek surgery (again offered by my medical system within the confines of medical protocol that is). I may experience days when I feel "female" not "male" but I do not look in the mirror and hate what I see staring back (boy physiology that is).


So I will throw in the towel and admit to all that I am more closely aligned to the TS side of the spectrum than I would have admitted even a month ago.


1. I understand being a man and identifying as such, but deriving a sense of well-being out of expressing femininity.

2. I understand being a woman and identifying as such, but born with the physical defect of having a male body (thus feeling distressed over it).

3. I understand being gender-flexible and identifying as such, which means not identifying as a cis-male or cis-female (as you do below), but being elastic between the two: sometimes feeling female, sometimes feeling male, and sometimes feeling a combination of the two, even if it is not 50/50.

Where it gets confusing for me, is assigning the label "TS" to #3. I'm sorry for getting into label definitions, but so far I and many others have used the term Transsexual (TS) to define a person who wants to change their sex, either from MtoF or from FtoM ... in other words, transitioning from one sex to another. Few people have used this term to describe a transition from a male to someone who is ambi-gendered or ambi-sexed, although admittedly this too is a transition. I can further understand why it is difficult for most people to live and present in a way that makes it unclear to others what sex they are, since we do live in a binary-sex world, and I admire your efforts to get the Canadian Armed Forces to see this.

I do remember one of your recent posts where you said you felt you were transitioning (M-to-#3 ?) even though it is not, as you say, to live legally and physically as a woman. I had suggested perhaps using the term partial-transition (vs full-transition), to try to differentiate between #2 and #3, else it can get confusing. I don't think you or anyone else commented on that.



Am I am man or am I woman . . . neither . . . I am a person who wants to live her/his life as best as she/he can.

Right. So why is it that you define #3 as "going down the pathway to being TS" (#2)? Aren't both of these experiences different? Or are you one of the members here who believe that #3 necessarily leads to #2, in other words, that it's all one big continuum and that you are indeed on your way to #3.

I'm not wanting to be politically divisive or exclusionary, but it's difficult for people like me to know who you (and others) are when everyone uses the same term to define themselves, whether they transition or not, whether they identify solidly as one gender or not, etc.

Any thoughts?

<Edit>
I forgot the most important thing: good luck and best wishes as you meander down your path! :)

[Katey888]

Well done as always, Isha, for being prepared to share what you're going through for the further edification of others as well as yourself... you most definitely are your own man... :eek: errrm... girl... or somewhere in the middle - and that's what I'd like to comment on... :thinking:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being in the middle - I think reality sees a lot of us there, swanning about across a diverse range of behaviours and degrees - I would say just this for your thought and to offer support: as nature abhors a vacuum, so societal (and military/ commerce/ government) constructs do so abhor a non-binary as far as gender goes, and in some ways it would - as you have implied - be so much easier for you to identify as female 100% for your job, even if you didn't feel that way. So don't give up on the middle ground! You're breaking ground that no (or few) others have trodden in a very important way and at a very important time for the transgender mish-mash we all represent. :cheer:

Do your own thing. Be you.

:bh:

Katey x

[PaulaQ]

Isha. Have you ever considered that you may be gender-fluid, rather than 100% female identified?


I had actually thought "feeling female" . Now some might think . . . big deal so you thought "feeling female".

This phrase is kind of telling to me. That, your behavior, and your general lack (so far anyway, knock on wood) of the other serious, but indirect, symptoms of gender dysphoria, sort of all point to this.

Now of course things could change, but it is entirely possible for you to have a partially feminine identity, or an identity that shifts back and forth across the male / female dividing line. I have to confess that I don't really understand what that must be like - I'm all girl here - but I know enough others who fit this that it certainly seems like a possibility for you at this point. Maybe things change - sometimes they do - but maybe they don't.

If they don't, you should really consider writing a book. Not trying to be a fan-girl here - I think the way you have approached your life is really a model and a wonderful example for other gender-fluid people.


Yet the concept of "feeling female" felt as natural as saying "feeling male" even though I still cannot define what either term means.

This took me a while to grasp. People like us - trans people of various stripes - tend to be able to notice these feelings much more directly than cisgender people seem to grasp them. In my case, the misalignment between my gender identity and my physical sex caused me genuinely horrifying pain and anguish. In your case, your shifting gender identity gives you a perspective others don't have. I'd noticed, early on, that asking cisgender women "how do you feel about being a woman" was generally the most useless question. Virtually every one of them I spoke with really had no clear idea whatsoever what they were feeling. Now don't get me wrong - I am quite certain these women felt things, and probably felt them quite directly. However, it was sort of relegated to their unconscious - sort of like asking a fish "how's the water?" All they could often really tell me were the things that they didn't like about being a woman, the stuff that made them angry, was unfair, caused them problems, etc. (There are plenty of those things, trust me, and they were all valid complaints.)

Indeed, I think a lot of cisgender people don't understand that they do experience their gender quite directly - thus all the feminist political theories that the differences between men and women are all social constructs. (The individual behaviors may be, but the existence of differences, arbitrary and shifting as they are, is rooted in the architecture of our minds, in my opinion.)

Asking a fish in the water about the water is useless. Asking a bird in the sky about the air is also pretty useless. If you want to know about either one, it's the ones that cross from water to air that would really notice things. I believe that's really where are, in terms of gender. We've lived in both worlds, and so we notice the feelings more acutely because they are in fact different in many ways, both socially and biologically.

In some ways, someone like you (assuming you really do land as non-binary / gender-fluid), may be a better observer of all this than me. I've always felt like a woman - I just didn't get to be one, so I had to fake doing things I thought men did, and trying to feel as they did. This gives me some insights and experiences that other women don't have, but I really don't understand how men feel. I just never have.

I think it is extremely positive that you are pursuing an understanding of your gender identity in such a constructive manner.

I will say that for a short period of time, after I came out to myself as trans, I felt something like this:


To be honest, there are no answers in life especially on this crazy roller coaster. What I can say is that right now I don't feel as though I could "kill off" the male side of me without loosing some part of me anymore than I could "kill off" female side of me without loosing who I am.

I felt like I had two sides to my identity. The thing is, the male side felt, for all the world, like it was dying, and taking the rest of me with it. It was horrible, and it was a manifestation of my experience with gender dysphoria, I believe. Anyway, I realized that it was something I'd constructed. It was contrived, and it was choking the life out of me - a prison who's walls were collapsing and suffocating me.

So look, you may find these feelings are sort of a stepping stone to a fully female identity, or you may find that your identity fluidly shifts back and forth across the line over time.

I'm actually betting on the latter, but who knows - time will tell. Given your honest approach to this, I have little worry you'll figure it out.

[Lorileah]

I had July14th...who had June 13th in the pool? :) Isha, you be who you are. I am happy that your country can see their way clear to know that it isn't how you dress that makes you a good soldier.

[pamela7]

Paula Q,
Without wanting to digress the thread, apart from pregnancy, birthing, breastfeeding, inseminating, the rest is programmed, albeit ancestrally and socially. Maybe I'm also gender-fluid but all boys have to learn how to "behave" like others, for many of us this does not come naturally - are we TG or are we just not plugged into "getting the programming"? In which case are we like a kind of autist with the gender part of the program switched or missing?

I did not ask about my gender because I did not think to, and because of significant sibling rivalry with my sister poisoning my perception of "girl", but then I recognise at time I can play naturally with the boys, other times with the girls. Perhaps i'm therefore neither or both, or fluid. Are you not now presenting as CIS female in your post-transitional sense of self? I ask because I feel this is the great unknown. How do you "know" you are M or F or fluid or have aspects of both? I feel like Isha describes - I'm parts of each.

[KellyJameson]

Most of what is talked about in the CD section holds little interest for me but a few of its members write with great sensitivity, humility,clarity and introspection.

In my opinion you are one and I always enjoy reading your comments. I think you are coming from a very healthy state of mind and place. It is not sexual fantasy run amok or past trauma but your healthy natural essence that seems to guide your words and actions.

I cannot speak for you but transitioning for me was simply recovering that which was rejected in childhood and creating the vessel that "what was rejected" was and is made best "to express it".

Others taught me that I was and am a woman by them being Men or Women, Girls or Boys

I learned what I am through others, not because of them. This is critical in my opinion.

Living as a woman offers the best climate for me to grow in. I did not do it for others or to get anything from anyone but simply to change the soil that I was living in so that I could grow better.

I'm not emotionally needy, prone to histrionics, narcissistic or desperate for love and attention.

I did not transition to change my relations with others but my relationship with myself independent of others and once this change was made it carried out into the social world.

Transitioning actually has made my relationship with others more challenging and difficult but I do not care because of the inner peace I finally have.

Wherever you end up I would not fear for you as I do for many who move on the gender spectrum because you have a very loving relationship with yourself.

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

Please folks, I do not want this to transcend into labels or who gets to use what term and whose sensibilities will be hurt depending on which way you skin this cat. This is my revelation on how I see things and how they affect me. It is not meant to denigrate, demean or lessen the impact GID has had on others irrespective of where they fall. This is why I hate labels but unfortunately had to use them to describe what I was feeling or it would not have made sense to many who read this. Don't read too much into what I have written. The end state is that I am currently existing between both genders, I am not mixing the genders nor have I settled on one gender over the other. I merely accepted the fact that I am not just a man wearing women's clothing but sometimes I am a woman wearing my clothing or a man wearing my clothing. :)



. . . Where it gets confusing for me, is assigning the label "TS" to #3. I'm sorry for getting into label definitions, but so far I and many others have used the term Transsexual (TS) to define a person who wants to change their sex, either from MtoF or from FtoM ... in other words, transitioning from one sex to another. Few people have used this term to describe a transition from a male to someone who is ambi-gendered or ambi-sexed, although admittedly this too is a transition. I can further understand why it is difficult for most people to live and present in a way that makes it unclear to others what sex they are, since we do live in a binary-sex world, and I admire your efforts to get the Canadian Armed Forces to see this.

I do remember one of your recent posts where you said you felt you were transitioning (M-to-#3 ?) even though it is not, as you say, to live legally and physically as a woman. I had suggested perhaps using the term partial-transition (vs full-transition), to try to differentiate between #2 and #3, else it can get confusing. I don't think you or anyone else commented on that.

Right. So why is it that you define #3 as "going down the pathway to being TS" (#2)? Aren't both of these experiences different? Or are you one of the members here who believe that #3 necessarily leads to #2, in other words, that it's all one big continuum and that you are indeed on your way to #3.

Hi Reine,

I used the term "more closely aligned with the TS side of the spectrum to illustrate the distance I have meandered from when I first arrived. However, I never said I was TS. Yes, I concede part of me feels female on some days and when I cannot express that side, things get chaotic in my mind. Does that make we TS? Probably not but it does point to gender dysphoria which is not just for those who identify TS. :)


Isha. Have you ever considered that you may be gender-fluid, rather than 100% female identified?

Hi Paula,

At this juncture I do consider myself quite gender fluid although some here will debate the use of that term as well. :)

Hugs all

Isha

[ReineD]

Please folks, I do not want this to transcend into labels or who gets to use what term and whose sensibilities will be hurt depending on which way you skin this cat.

I apologize for bringing up labels, but I was responding to your use of the "TS" label. I hope you can appreciate the confusion for people like me, who do not live in the skins of community members, when to some people it means "woman in a male body" while to others it means "a mix of both". We (the community as a whole) really do need to come up with a better system of communication, especially if we want the cis-world to understand.



This is why I hate labels but unfortunately had to use them to describe what I was feeling or it would not have made sense to many who read this. Don't read too much into what I have written. The end state is that I am currently existing between both genders, I am not mixing the genders nor have I settled on one gender over the other. I merely accepted the fact that I am not just a man wearing women's clothing but sometimes I am a woman wearing my clothing or a man wearing my clothing.

Thank you for your response. My SO feels the same way. :)

[CynthiaD]

The two most important things on this journey are

1. Figure out who you are
2. Figure out what to do about it.

Both of these take time. Nothing is automatic. My own experience might be helpful. I'm a woman who, for some unknown reason, was born with male body parts. Does this automatically mean HRT and surgery? No. What you are and what you do about it are two different things. It took a long time to realize that I'm a woman. The signs were there, they extend back to my early childhood, and they were clear. But it still took a long time to figure out the truth. Figuring out what to do about it takes even more time. I live as a woman much of the time, but not full time. Full time would be nice, but I've chosen not to, for now. That may change. I've not considered making any permanent body changes, but that may change too. Life is a journey. What's right today might not be right tomorrow. And vice versa.

I wish you the best of luck on your journey, and I'm happy for you.

[PaulaQ]

the rest is programmed, albeit ancestrally and socially.
True, but there are always differences between men and women. We seem to need them.

We've erased differences in presentation for women to the point that it's actually fairly hard for trans guys starting out to be taken for men. That is, people don't understand that they are even trying to be men when they start out. (Unlike us - you see a guy in a dress, everyone knows what he's trying to get across.) And yet, they still transition.

For example, there are very pronounced differences between men and women's speaking voices. Now some of those differences derive from physiological differences. But that isn't the bulk of the differences as it turns out. In fact, just speaking in a high pitched voice doesn't make you sound like a woman - it makes you sound like a dude with a really high pitched voice. Nobody specifically teaches men and women to speak differently. Kids just pick this stuff up. Sadly, I didn't pick it up, I'm having to relearn it all, which is hard. I know other trans people who picked it up rather readily.

There are a lot of subtle little differences in behavior. Nobody really teaches anyone these things, but they tend to sort themselves out between boys and girls. My point isn't that the way we act is programmed, but our minds seem to have a gender identity, and innate sense of who we are, and that picks up who we learn from by observation as children. We seem to need these differences - or at least we are built so that there are some. The generally stupid conclusions people have reached in the past about these things (i.e. men are better than women) are just idiotic. These are small differences, and historically, we've placed too many restrictions on women because of them.


for many of us this does not come naturally - are we TG or are we just not plugged into "getting the programming"?

You probably aren't totally wired correctly to pick up on it naturally. I wasn't. I spent a great deal of effort on my presentation in the past.


Are you not now presenting as CIS female in your post-transitional sense of self?

In a lot of ways I feel more like a cis-female. I'm just a woman. Quite feminine. I feel that I am a woman with no doubts about it. I'm not a cis-female obviously. I'm trans.

Look, it can be difficult to reflect on how these things feel in a way that's relatable to others. One of the best examples I can come up with for "how do I know I really feel like a woman in a way that I can explain to someone else?" has to do with my bisexuality. I've finally admitted to myself that I'm bisexual. I've had a fair amount of shame and internalized homophobia that I've been trying to deal with. (I'm getting there.) The relationships and attraction that embarrasses me, a lot, like many bisexual people, are the same sex ones. Namely my attraction to women. Being with a woman feels wrong to me, because of all the homophobic social stigma associated with it. I'm kind of embarrassed to talk about my past marriages - both to other women. Understand - being with a guy feels completely natural to me. (Despite my relative lack of experience with it.) As insane as that sounds - It's a little embarrassing to talk about my marriages to other women. I am embarrassed that I'm still attracted to women sometimes - sometimes quite a lot as it happens.

Believe me, nobody was more surprised than I was when I figured out that this was really what was going on inside of my head. I've calmed down about it a lot - sexual orientation seems like small stuff compared to dealing with gender identity. Or maybe I just have a mental and emotional framework for dealing with this stuff now.

If I still felt like a man, if I hadn't internalized "I'm a woman through and through", I'd think I'd be really nervous about being with men. But I'm not. That feels normal to me.

I mean look - human personalities are complex. I know I have some residual learned masculine behaviors. I also have some innate tendencies that might be considered more masculine- I'm quite aggressive compared to many woman. (I wasn't so aggressive as a man, actually, that one isn't a leftover behavior, I don't believe.)

There are a lot of things we might label "feminine" or "masculine" that really aren't gendered at all. All of us have some traits that could be masculine or feminine. It's more a question of which tools in our mental / emotional toolbox that we reach for first. Men and women, on average, reach for different stuff first - but there's quite a lot of overlap, and all of us have situations where we'll work sort of outside of the set of tools we're most comfortable with.

None of this is absolute. There are feminine men, there are masculine women. I think a lot of it comes down to differences in the ways men and women tend to communicate. The importance of these differences has been just vastly overblown by our culture over our history, much to the very great detriment of women.

[Genny B]

One thing has always been consistent in 'Isah' posts. She always keeps her head on her shoulders! I enjoy your post Isha and hope you never change mentally from where you are at. There are still things we all don't know about each other and they can have strong influences on our lives.
The male me has children I am very proud of and grandchildren too! I would love for them to meet Genny, but that hasn't happened yet and I do not see it in the near future. There were times when I wish I had transitioned but do not regret not doing it. I still love going out as Genny occasionally to embrace those moments though!

Genny B

[Angie G]

it seems you have balance to you two sides and witch way you lean we will all support you Isha. For now it seems you have the best of both worlds.:hugs:
Angie

[TrishaTX]

Isha...two points from my pint of view...#1 and most important especially on Flag day thank you for your military service. Our government would have it that you would not be involved...but I would have it that if you volunteer and do what you have done...you get my sincerest thanks. I ...funny enough...do not have the balls to volunteer for service. #2...if you could get through #1 you will get through #2 which is be you. You know inside what that is. I am still working through me...probally always will ...but I am proud to know you via this site. You are a strong person and BTW can run like 15 miles. lol

[GretchenJ]

Even on those days when I am presenting male to the world, my female side will always be there interjecting her own sense of self into my male world. So right now, I am still running down the pathway but I can now see my final destination a bit more clearly in that I am both male and female timesharing one body which both genders appreciate and love. Am I am man or am I woman . . . neither . . . I am a person who wants to live her/his life as best as she/he can.


Hey Isha,

I think that you come to grips by now that you are not just a man you likes to dress as a woman at times. I believe that you have determined that venturing out en femme makes you feel like a woman as much as look like a woman.

Now that you are going to work as Isha, rather than a trip to Starbucks, or out to lunch, you are now beginning a normal 24/7 day in your feminine state. So it become more real now than just a passing fancy.

I can not speak for you but my assumption are
a) I believe that you are TG, or better gender fluid.
b) You still like your male side, as well as your female side - it just the percentages may vary depending on the day
c) Even when you are in your male side, there are some Isha personalities that go with you.

This is pretty much where I am right now, other than the courage to venture out at work. whatever you decide, may it bring you the happiness and contentment which you deeply deserve.

[LeslieSD]

Thanks for sharing the thought. I have always been exploring my true thoughts just like you. Often a same question would feel quite different from what I thought what it was a while ago. Interestingly today, I was actually asked, "are you sure you will not want to become female"? Previously my answer to this is a definite "I am sure". But to search deep down today, my thought is "maybe I am not so sure". I can totally relate to what I feel.

I had previously believed that whatever place on the gender spectrum one belongs to is a fixed spot which will not shift in one's life. But now that fact may not be so sure.

If it was true that one can move further "down" on the gender slope over time, would people start to theorize that given proper influence one can also be moved further "up" on the scale or even be move to the "normal" zone?

That is a scary and dangerous thought.

[paulaprimo]

isha, i wish you the very best on your journey. you are very lucky to have the full support of
your wife and the military. the journey is yours, and yours alone. you don't have to claim a label
for us. i'm sure there will be many bumps along the way, but follow your heart and do what is best
for isha. and i thank you for your military service also!! :)

[Teresa]

Paula,
I'm surprised to see the issues you get embarrassed about, I would have thought you of all people would know and accept that's how you are wired ! I guess it's along road to finding out exactly what your mind needs to be able to form a satisfactory relationship. You may recall a comment I made about transition, it's like stepping into a black hole, all your former life has gone and it takes a huge effort to climb out and try and form a new one !

I have no doubts that no matter what state I live in the future my feelings for women will never change , as a male I'm attracted to them and dressed I'm attracted to them, despite having the same feelings as Isha of not knowing where I am along the gender road , my sexual interests will never change !

[stefan37]

Transition is hardly a black hole. Yes there are potholes and foxholes to navigate. It also doesn't necessarily mean your former life is gone. Yes it changes and you are also correct it does take energy and effort. But at the end of the day your life is authentic and you longer wage internal war with yourself. There is an inner peace that transcends.

I felt and lived as Isha did for years. I didn't wear dresses to work, but I did wear makeup, nail polish pierced ears with dangling earrings and woman's clothing. The one thing I caution is be careful drawing lines in the sand.

I thought I my orientation would never change also but 3 years on hormones, 2 years full time. I'm finding some guys attractive.

Hopefully those gender fluid individuals posting here can find a comfort level living in the middle. Just be aware that even though you have control now things could change. We do not have any control how our Gd will manifest.

[AnnieMac]

Hmmm, I still dunno Isha. Sometimes I thing CDing and gender identity issues are a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. That is, I notice the more often I cross dress, the more often I want to do it, kind of fueling the fire as it were. The less often I get to do it (because I am a closet girl), the initial desire immediately is I want to do it very badly, but then after a longer period of time, the desire fades a reasonable amount. So maybe it's just in my case, but it's a little like a habit that forms.
So Isha maybe you should try this, I wonder what would happen. Don't dress, think or doing anything female for about two months, be your normal male self, and see what you fee like after that. I know, I know what you will say that "but I've already been my male self my whole life", and that is true, but not after you have had this revelation and experience of being Isha.
Now I know I don't personally presume to know you very well, but I see these patterns in myself at times, and from the outsiders view, perhaps they exist in you as well. And, wherever anyone is on the gender continuum, I seem to see this pattern quite a bit here on this forum, especially to the newfound CDrs that are experiencing the initially euphoria of the female CD experience.
-Just a nutty girlie cross dressers thoughts -Annie

[NicoleScott]

Just curious, Isha, I wonder if your superiors think they are heading down a slippery slope. First, permission to dress on casual day. Then male and female uniforms, so you can dress to match your gender de jour. Then growing your hair out while conforming to both male and female dress codes. When you request a meeting with your superiors, are they thinking "uh-oh, now what?"

[Alice Torn]

Isha, Thanks for sharing your thoughts, feelings, and experience again. We are complex beings, are we not?! Whether in male mode, or the lady mode. We are always changing a bit. Some times change is good, sometimes, not so good. We live and die by our decisions, like a country song said.

[Kate Simmons]

Just one comment Isha. I can be male, female or any combination thereof at any given time as I have made ALL of my feelings my own. What I look like to the outside world certainly doesn't define who I am inside and that is a spiritual person. By spiritual I mean nothing religious but that I know who I am, what I'm doing and where I'm going. I can play either role with equal aplomb and it's good as it's all totally based on my own choice. Works for me my friend. :battingeyelashes::)

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o Isha,
What? Causing panic with a thread title!
Short answer.....
Your a Gender Fluid person. I would think these thoughts are
normal. That first revealation though... YIKES WTF !!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry I haven't read all the replies, and your responses.
I think you should just relax, (float in a pool?) and be you.
Much Love,
Kristyn

[Lorileah]

Just curious, Isha, I wonder if your superiors think they are heading down a slippery slope. First, permission to dress on casual day. When you request a meeting with your superiors, are they thinking "uh-oh, now what?"

You are applying an American perspective to this. Why would it be a slippery slope? Many other countries allow transpeople to serve. The Air Force just made a position statement on this. If Isha is good at what she does, does gender really matter. Women are finally getting to fill combat roles and not just be support personnel.

[Suzanne F]

Isha
First thing is that I support you no matter what choice you eventually make. You have shown so much courage in facing the world that you have earned that support. I love that you have been open and honest during the process. Many wait until they have it all figured out until opening up to the world. I love that you have chosen to educate as you go through the process. None of us really has it all figured out. I am sure the morning that I have SRS there will be questions of my sanity by my brain trying to protect me from a new life.

I have no preference as to what you decide.. All I wish for you is the opportunity to be free to be honest with yourself. I know for me that it just was so evident that I was me when en femme. It crushed me to return to my male role. At first I was so joyous to be out in the world that I didn't want to admit the pain of returning to my male mode. Then it was how could I really make all this work. Then it was so depressing to think I would have to continue as male. Finally, there was the realization that anything would be worth facing if I could be me.

So now I sit here writing this response after being on HRT for 2 months. I feel right for the first time in my life. I know this isn't the right path for everyone. What I know is that we need to be free to really weigh these choices. Isha you have contributed to making people more free to examine their gender and how to live authentically. I wish the same for you!

Your admirer,
Suzanne

[Marcelle]

Hmmm, I still dunno Isha. Sometimes I thing CDing and gender identity issues are a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. That is, I notice the more often I cross dress, the more often I want to do it, kind of fueling the fire as it were. The less often I get to do it (because I am a closet girl), the initial desire immediately is I want to do it very badly, but then after a longer period of time, the desire fades a reasonable amount. So maybe it's just in my case, but it's a little like a habit that forms.
So Isha maybe you should try this, I wonder what would happen. Don't dress, think or doing anything female for about two months, be your normal male self, and see what you fee like after that.

Hi Annie,

Unfortunately, I am going to have to disagree as that is not how GID works. Dressing up may be a trigger at a young age or may be how those with GID first tackle what is an odd feeling (i.e., feeling female) but dressing in and of itself is not habit forming or else you could take a normal run of the mill dude (no GID) have him dress up for a time and all of a sudden he is going to start feeling like a woman . . . not likely. Now I am not saying that some who water here cannot just dress, put it away for a period and then take it up when the feeling returns but the one constant is . . . the feeling normally returns. That is the nature of GID for most who water here.

With regards to stop dressing and just be my normal male self . . . heck I don't even know what being a normal male means. Is that chewing tobacco, fixing trucks and boxing? This would not work for me because "normal me" is exactly as I have described myself, sometimes male and sometimes female. To stop dressing would not all of a sudden mask my female side into oblivion. Indeed, I would return to where I was a year and half ago, moody, angry, resentful and dare I say entering a very dark place in my mind. This is the nature of GID and not "pink fog".


Just curious, Isha, I wonder if your superiors think they are heading down a slippery slope. First, permission to dress on casual day. Then male and female uniforms, so you can dress to match your gender de jour. Then growing your hair out while conforming to both male and female dress codes. When you request a meeting with your superiors, are they thinking "uh-oh, now what?"

Hi Nicole,

There is not slippery slope in my military. Even if I wanted to transition all the way, this is guided by policy and we have several Trans men/women serving in uniform. My superiors have just applied the principle of a current TG policy to my current situation (gender fluid).

Hugs all

Isha

[donnalee]

We are as we are, but that is subject to change at any time and sometimes seems to change from moment to moment. This is a natural thing and, although pretty confusing, also pretty normal. People need to be able to define themselves to themselves and others, but have often been pressed not to do so for their own sakes and for the sake of others in their lives, so an assumed persona is often the result. This leads to a great deal of self confusion; often it is difficult to tell as these personae can become so ingrained as to be quite difficult to untangle and sort out.
Life teaches certain lessons and often the result is to become something you never were, or at least give the appearance of it.
I find in myself such a mass of contradictions but all of them serve to make up my being, such as it is and whatever feminine aspects it has are in the mix as well, so your uncertainty is a pretty normal state of being, in my view.
All you can do is see where it takes you; it would be a lot easier if we were omniscient, but all we can do is see a little bit ahead at a time.

[Mollyanne]

I'm a little confused here, if your employer has re-structured the work place policy and rules and you are planning a "fluid" presence wouldn't that cause a bit of concern for the other employees???? How can one complete the days work assignment(s) flipping from one gender role to another and then maybe flipping again. I can understand the need for self fulfillment and expression but to maybe, just maybe cause undue concern is way above me. If I were in your position I would definitely present as a woman. If on the other hand presenting as a male when in the work place and then presenting as a female when NOT working would be an alternative as well.

In any event my thoughts are with you and I congratulate you on your decision(s).

Molly

[Marcelle]

Hi Mollyanne . . . fair question :)

It is about choice and expression. They are not restructuring work place policy around me only applying the spirit of the current TG policy to me realizing that I am still gender fluid vice TS. As such, the same rules apply.

The hard and fast of things is that I can no more control when I feel female vice male or vice versa, than I can control my breathing. I most certainly could try presenting only male or female at work but on those days when I did not feel like that gender, it would be difficult to function. WRT to the other employees . . . well, we have had several education periods with the staff but even that won't get to every possible person I will have to interact with in my unit or the CAF writ large. However, and I do not want to sound like a D-Bag here, it is not my concern. I would not expect to impose my sense of how I think people should behave, present or act at work less it hurt my sensibilities than I would expect to have my own behavior dictated because people may feel uncomfortable. Applying that same logic then any of us who are day walkers should not do so just in case people may feel uncomfortable around us.

Hugs

Isha

[Dianne S]

... planning a "fluid" presence wouldn't that cause a bit of concern for the other employees????

Well, possibly, but in the 1950's gays "caused a bit of concern" for other employees. In the 1990's, trans people "caused a bit of concern."

The point is that people got over it. And I see no reason why people shouldn't be encouraged to just get over gender-fluid people. Way to go, Isha.

[desertrider]

Isha, I really appreciate your perspective and wish you the best. Coming to this site initially from the black & white world, I still got the impression for a few weeks I wasn't maybe going to 'fit in' - I "saw" a lot of TS posts, and a lot of "all dude, all the time, attracted to GG's, just like dressing" posts. The older I get, the less I'm into binaries. Your level of introspection is resonant with where I am, and why I'm here, the community keeps expanding and getting more interesting the more I read.

Sometimes I feel like I'm about 6 still. People have been trying to understand themselves for years, and I've spent years repressing, or I think that's too stong a word maybe, just letting it be 'too inconvinient to take seriously in *my* life'...so now I'm feeling a bit of lost time...and trying to duck the pink fog overcompensation (...overcompensation? or do I really want more and that's what I'm not comfortable with? lol, time will tell).

The support here is amazing. I continually see two undercurrents:

1) Take your time, know yourself & where you're headed.
2) Be yourself, be bold, and don't let society tell you who you are or how to express that.

I think taken together, that is the best we can do at why we're all here, and leads to better experiences. I've located my local gender group, looks like a real solid community....now finding the time with kids sports and all the rest to actually hit a few meetings and meet some live humans (not that I don't love y'all)...

:fairy2: Summer

[Trishpdxcd2]

Isha, at age 60, I realize that I am in the 7th inning of my cd journey. You have the makings of throwing a no hitter. You are such a trailblazer in your domestic , professional & social life. Wherever your gender journey takes you, we all know that it will be lined with excitement , newness & peace. You have my deepest respect & thankfulness. Peace to you & your wife.. she must be incredibly special.

That was so well said and how I feel about you Isha. You really are a trailblazer and I hope wherever it takes you is a good place. It is always a difficult journey. I recently came out to my wife and was so relieved that she is supportive. For myself I see dressing as more of a fetish but my wife pointed out it is also an expression of a feminine side that is there and I agree. Everyone has their own path and it is nice that we can share it here among friends.

[Tina_gm]

1st, let me say congratulations Isha for coming to terms with yourself. While we all use labels for identification purposes so there is a sense of direction or being, or perhaps clarity, I feel there is nothing wrong with using them. It helps us communicate and identify ourselves. Not that we need to box ourselves in with them.

What I take from your title is that you are no longer going to in any way attempt to direct yourself in terms of gender. Throwing in the towel to me means that you are now freeing yourself to be yourself, regardless of what that is, or where it goes. For that I do say congratulations on navigating this path which we all are on. Each one of us takes this path at our own speed, picks which lanes we need to, stops, slows down, accelerates, or just hits cruise control and enjoys the scenery. Hopefully with people and perhaps a partner who will be with us, supports us and just enjoys sharing the view.

To Jenny Elwood's post #30- While I often am outspoken in terms of what anyone does or should do in regards to dressing and other TG issues, and often I would agree with Jenny's line of thinking, here I make a departure.

To me, it does not matter where someone is on the spectrum. Whether what we here describe as TS, a full opposite of gender identity from assigned birth gender, to the very occasional thrill seeking or just having a little fun with occasional dress up. Wherever we are, we are not cisgender. That is what we ultimately hold in common.

Where I speak out is with members who deceive others. Who go beyond agreements without working through another agreement. Pushing limits when it is not necessary to do so, just for selfish reasons. To not think of our partner's well being in the process of being who we are.

Isha has demonstrated that she has met all the criteria of being utmost honest, with integrity and has shared everything with her wife. It does not matter where Isha or anyone else is on the spectrum, so long as they navigate their life path with honesty, integrity and authenticity.

We are all human, thus we will fail on occasion. Isha's efforts to live her life with those qualities I have mentioned above are to be commended. We cannot expect absolute perfection in ourselves or others, but of a true 100% effort and to better ourselves. Being true to ourselves is the best way to be the best person we can be, to others as well as ourselves.

Isha is doing nothing more than freeing herself from gender boundaries that she cannot and should not be or feel constrained by. She, like all of us do not fit within the gender boundaries society wrongly demands of people. Good luck Isha on freeing yourself to be yourself, whatever that may be.