The psychology of what made crossdressing an obsession | for your SO's to understand.

[NickyLycra]

Hi all ...

This is my Third attempt ... Thanks for your feedback .... Questions and feedback appreciated.

The first post I read was "The first thing you crossdressed in"

and ... OMG I'd say 50% of you out there said .... woman's swimsuit <---- could this be the gateway drug?

So ... If I may without offending the Boss's I've re-written.

It's long .. I'm sorry I'm so wordy ... but at the end .. I discovered something ... that changed my life.

Normalisation ........... I know there is allot of us out there that are in this loop of death (I was in it too) because the simple act of altering our appearance to reflect someone of the opposite gender, or even the simple freedom to wear what ever clothing you want without prejudice we're all caught in a wold of secrecy.... fear of acceptance ... and all of the stigma that comes with being an outcast.

We ALL think it's normal to do what we do .... (And yes I am being grossly generic) But in a whole this forum survives because Society is yet to see gender fluid dressing as normal.

I am a genetic male ... yes I CD ... and I wear Skirts, Leotards, and Dresses sometimes in total BLOKE mode IN Public. (How outrageous)

And when the mood finds me I also love to go glam make up boobs hip shapers wigs ect.

For me .. it was when I was 4 and I was at a friends house who owned a pool and I didn't have any swimwear and my friends mum innocently gave me a pair of her togs so I could swim.

I attached personal nirvana to items of clothing because of how I felt wearing them. ... There's part of it thats not so fun ... the older I got the more the social values caused me to be secretive. the sneaking around ... The guilt .... the shame ..... the fessing up to SO's ... The pursuit of an SO that was part of my lifestyle choices ... and while its taken 35 years to develop a healthy personal acceptance of myself.

Here's the the interesting thing [This is life changing for anyone in a relationship that is strained by their crossdressing]

Acceptance
Confidence
Normalisation

When I found those three things myself I finally found a SO that accepts me for being me.

For me Confidence is a mindset: OWN it is part of what makes you YOU
Normalisation turns something that have been called many things including dirty perverted and secret into something that's just ..... well normal.

Here's how normalisation worked for me.

Now I don't have gender dysphoria, I don't want to be a girl. I do however LOVE to create the illusion of LOOKING like a woman I find that part artistic, expressive, and seriously fun. ( more on that later)

However I ALSO love being a MAN being strong, taking the lead, Providing, Wearing very well made suits, and all OTHER bloke kinda things.

Gents ..... you're going to hate me to say this ... and I see the arguments and counter content about to flow.

You want to go out and be pretty in public and not have anyone think of you any different?
You want to be accepted?
You want to wear what you want?

Well you can ...... the direct path fails ..... but I'm sure I'm not the only one thats seeing it. Normalisation came when I took an item of womens clothing and made it an item of mens clothing.

OK I need to say these steps were NOT planned ... it's only when I looked back I thought. "I wonder why I didn't do that sooner"

Here's an example. Very early on in our relationship we went on holiday to somewhere cold, and I just came out and said BTW I wear womans opaque pantyhose in the cold because they are way more comfortable than mens thermals. To be honest I was doing it no matter what, fact is I do and they are ... and to attach a Bloke logic ... its like DUH !!!!!
I actually said this ...
"Underpants and socks in one" what self respecting lazy guy wouldn't want to do that? ... easy to wear ... easy to wash .... and no shit they are just as warm and way more comfortable than thermals. AND (get this) you only have to wash ONE THING not Three which means only ONE thing to hang on the line, AND I discovered they are AWESOME under a suit.

Bloke logic to introduced long sleeve leotards, to Skirts and dresses.... again unplanned ... started with a conversation ... ended with a purchase.

Leotards - Well I surf. Mens "rash shirts" are notorious for getting pulled up around your chest every time you come off your board. How do you stop that? You wear a womens long sleeve surf suit .... I remember her saying But thats a womens swimsuit .... and I shrugged and said "SO" I'm wearing board shorts who knows the difference one I have my shorts on, she just said, go get some then.

Skirts ..... there's a much longer story to this .... but it came down to this ... the Man skirt is everywhere from the catwalks to Marc Jacobs pretty much now always wears one. ... I came out and said "I'd wear one" she said "why not" they make a huge amount of sense here in Aus. Tastefully done, well tailored and with the right boots and shirt. I can 100% say it's been nothing but compliments from both women and men when I rock a skirt and AND -----> AND <---- Pantyhose ..... yes in public being a MAN wearing a skirt. Yep I'm here to tell you guy's from personal experience .... I also discovered as a man in a well tailored skirt and pantyhose and tailored shirt looking like a MAN .. walking like a MAN .. being a MAN .. Attracted an unbelievable amount of female attention and Mens approval. Confidence oozed women loved it. And my SO loved it.... just say'n you might just be surprised.

A dress .... well whats a dress anyway? its and Shirt and Skirt joined together or in a Suit its a vest and skirt joined together isn;t it?
You wear a skirt and a vest and a jacket ..... well ..... its not to far stretched that Bloke convenience kicks in a dress is cheaper to take to the dry cleaners than a skirt and vest........ hmmm pantyhose = underpants + Socks. Dress = Skirt + vest. 100% same effect. Men have said .... nice Kilt I have said... its actually a dress.... explained man logic and seriously having MEH confidence in saying Kilt + Vest = Dress.

I'm just saying ..... You be a MAN and do something confidently and OWN IT most women find that masculine and attractive, and so far even at the RUGBY men just respect the balls it takes to pull it off without a blink.

How about glamming up?

My SO had my trust was I could tell her about my history..... wasn't straight away .... it was a two year soft landing .... in the end ... her comment was "I don't see what the problem is.

It comes down to what I said before I told her ...... I love it ... I call it art ... its art ... its the purest form of expression .... my body is the canvas and the success of my illusion drives me to perfect my look. ..... And yes give yourself permission to feel sexy ... I sure do when I see myself !!!

Maybe the people around me are a reflection of my confidence ... The moment you let wearing an item of clothing ... or changing your appearance to reflect how you feel become normal.

It's no longer is the problem you thought it was, and you no longer have anything to be concerned about.

And that means ...... you can just go about your normal lives.

The world changes when you do

[Jenniferathome]

Are you sure 3 or 4 different people didn't write this at the same time? The jumble of thoughts is hard to digest. You have made a few key mistakes in your assumptions. 1) the swimsuit being a gateway to cross dressing. Those who replied to a question may have stated that but it does not represent cross dressers generally. ACCESS to clothing is the key in what is chosen. 2) cross dressing may be an obsession for some but for other it is not. Obsession and cross dressing are not related. 3) asking a woman to be open to cross dressing is entirely self-indulgent. You have zero objectivity in this.

If if there is a point to this post, I suspect it is in the last lines: relax and stop worring about the wrongness of cross dressing. On that, I can agree

[NickyLycra]

I'll admit that what makes me me has been a journey ....

And yeah .... it was a brain dump .....

While a bit all over the place ...... I reading what I wrote still a pretty accurate account of what goes on in my mind.

no one said this was easy, simple or uncomplicated.

And .... what I wrote does not apply for everyone .... most defiantly does not apply for someone that identifies as TG ... thats a whole different world I have no business in trying to say Im part of.
Jen I really appreciate your feedback ...... yeah look it was a brain dump ..... and it took allot of courage for me to speak out.

I trust you and the rest of the community will embrace my bravery to speak out and share something that is deeply personal in the hopes we can all benefit from everyones experience... please don't chastise me into silence.

I appreciated that my thought feelings and beliefs will most likely ruffle feathers ... or at least cause debate ... I think thats heathy.

The more people that share their opinion here the better we as a community will be.

Swimsuits wasn't a key assumption I was really making an observation. .... Many of those post it did comes up allot ... that and Mum's pantyhose.

For me .... it was a light bulb ..... WOW .. I'm not the only one. So .. I'm paying it forward sharing my experience ... and hopefully other out there it hits a chord and they think WOW I'm not the only one too.

All I can share is my own experience. It'd be great if after lots of feedback my own experience becomes unique. At least we know.

It would also be great if a common thread comes out. That might just help one person out there.

Anyway .. I found two sides to my life discovery.

1. It was a huge surprise for me when I discovered I can enjoy being a man and wear items traditionally feminine in a masculine setting.
This has to be something I really do hope helps allot of the community to feel comfortable .... not all of the community want to transition and I don't hear to many of the community say .... You know what ... I actually like being a guy ... I just happen to appreciate the feel and variety of womens clothing.

2. It OK to express all sides of who you are. It's not binary. We can be Fluid. Man Woman and what ever in-between.

The self indulgent statement ....

Look I was personally moved by the heart felt post written by a clearly distressed significant other and she opened her heart and feelings to all who was reading the post.
some of the things I've wrote I guess were for her and anyone else who found themselves in her situation.

At that point I may have been having my own heart felt conversation with the openness of letting all to read.

I hope that makes more sense ... and is written as a single persons voice :-)

[Debra Russell]

Sorry ... started reading ,, but my brain froze:sad:......................Debra

[pamela7]

Hi NickyLycra, welcome.

To the point of normalisation - yes - i do "man in female clothing", rarely going to wig or make-up or shaving even. leggings (meggings is the man-word here) work fine, so do tunics. No-one is bothered, cos i'm not. that is normalisation. And yes women do love it, and even men are curious. Good, innit?!

It was not swimsuits actually for me, as a first, and most stories on the forum don't check out as starting there. Great idea under the wetsuit tho, cool, thanks

Pamela

[Katey888]

Well Nicky, it's certainly a perspective... :) And it obviously sums up your experience and feelings with how you feel about this and so is all completely valid... for you... just take care with the generalisations - for example:


... I don't hear to many of the community say .... You know what ... I actually like being a guy ... I just happen to appreciate the feel and variety of womens clothing.


Actually, if you read enough here over time, you will see that quite a bit - just be patient and keep reading. :)

If you do, I hope you'll take away the concept that there is no right or wrong with this; no good or bad way to pursue any particular type of CDing, whether you underdress, part-dress, femulate, fetish dress, or just admire those that dress - we are all as valid in what we choose to do as we are individual in that pursuit. Yes, I'll grant you many, many of us have overlaps in aspects - but our motivations seem individual, our circumstances all unique and our final behaviours always slightly tweaked to accommodate our often, very different lives.

If you want to express who you are through this all the time - that's fine, and others here do that... Me..? I just like to totally glam up once in a while and that is enough of an expression to satisfy my latent girl. The rest of the time I'm a regular chap - and happy with that. :)

One suggestion looking forward: brevity is a big plus here - and I fear we may have many more like Debra before the day is out, even though it's summer here up north... Just a thought... but I read it all.. :D

And welcome too - look forward to your intro... or at least the synopsis... ;)

Katey x

[Tracii G]

I read it all and I'm still not sure where you are coming from.
The swimsuit comment was out there but thats OK I have been CDing for a long time but only bought a bikini last year.
To make broad generalizations on anything CD related is sketchy at best because it is so different for each of us.

[Badwolf]

Yeah you ramble quite a bit. You need to work on formatting and simple syntax stuff to make it more readable. You have so many unfinished sentences, ellipsis where there should be commas, incomplete sentences, and super short paragraphs that it is almost unreadable. Even your ellipsis doesn't have a consistent number of dots.

This is coming from someone who writing quickly sometimes doesn't pay attention to those either but this is way overboard.

Now I will say this I made it through most of it, and your three stages (acceptance, confidence, normalization), aren't exactly wrong, but they are the ways humans deal with most big changes in life. AA starts with acceptance, step 12 is "Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs." Stages of grief mirror the same general progression.

They all come from very different reactions though, so how to IMPLEMENT them is the trouble. There is no rulebook, no school, not even one clear single goal to everyone here. AA has one goal, so does grief counseling. TS's have one, Straight CD's another, non-genderconforming have yet another. We may one day find a set of guidelines that will reassure us as we go through these stages that we will be ok, but for now we just have to trust each other when we say it will be, and discuss them on an ongoing basis.

[jigna]

This is too lengthy, However I would like to comment that I am CD since it gives me a great pleasure and not leaving any opportunity to leave wearing different types nf Indian dresses.

[Lorileah]

be nice, if you can't be nice be quiet. Some people need to vent and they write.

That said...I really don't get where you are going here

[NickyLycra]

Thanks for the feeback

I think I might rewrite again ..... enough people have said I've written jibber and .... yup looks like I have in my excitement exploded.

I'll give it another go in the not to distant future when I have the time to be articulate.

[CarlaWestin]

Nicky, Honey! I've got a headache. It's just 'cause it feels good, OK? But, I love your enthusiasm.

[Marcelle]

Hi Nicky and welcome BTW. I believe what you are saying makes sense in the fact that however you choose to express this side of you (dude in a dress, fully glammed) you need to accept it in order to find peace. Now for me this is a bit more than just dressing up as a woman and there are times when I have the need to be seen as a woman. However, I do like your concept of: (1) Acceptance; (2) Confidence; and (3) Normalization as a way to approach this. I believe what you are talking about when it comes to acceptance is . . . internal acceptance of yourself not acceptance of others. Irrespective of how you dress (public, closet, partial, fully etc. etc.) you need to accept it is part of you and embrace it. For me once I accepted that I like to dress and be seen as a woman, it allowed confidence to grow and I began to make more and more public forays which finally lead to normalization. Now when I go out as a woman it is as a normal as when I go out as a man. I accept the fact that people will not always see a woman when they look at me but I am good with that because at that point, I feel like a woman and that is all that matters.

Hugs

Isha

[NickyLycra]

Isha

You "got it"

[UNDERDRESSER]

A bit rambling, yes, but actually readable compared to some wall of text pages that were mis-spelled every 3rd word that I have seen.

I can find a point of contact to my own opinions with a lot of yours, but I do feel there is a bit of self justification going on. ( for both of us ) I am also wearing skirts as a guy routinely now, and often get compliments. last night some young dude out with his GF and a buddy muttered in a stunned voice, "Are you wearing a skirt?" "Yes" I replied, "It's cool" I added, because we are approaching temperatures that could make an Australian feel comfortable. His eyebrows went up, and then his thumb!

I don't agree with all of the stuff you wrote, in particular I'm with Jennifer in saying it's access that often provides the first experience. For those that end up in neighbours swimming pools, a swimsuit is often the first, for others, underwear left out is more likely.

What sort of dresses have you found that can look good as a guy? Skirts are comparatively easy, dresses are much harder without extensive modification.

[Teresa]

NickyLycra,
Some of your comments I agree with but do be careful trying to speak for everyone, we are all different and arrived at where we are now by slightly different routes !
I will admit that a swimsuit did literally drop me in the deep end , it wasn't so much of the feel or being feminine something in my brain suggested it was a female body . I knew nothing of sex at the age of nine so when I had an involuntary orgasm, which at the time was more scary than enjoyable, I didn't realise how deeply that was impressed in my brain and that the connection would never leave me . Later in my late teens I had two GFs that actually encouraged and enjoyed sharing it with me .
I will add that in all that time no one has ever called me by the names you list or any others !

Also your version of being accepted in life as a CDer is governed by your partners attitude which is what affects most of us . If your partner fully accepts, you will more than likely have more confidence and with that the whole thing becomes nearer to normal .
I found this when talking to my counsellor, the more we talked the less inhibited I felt the more normal the whole issue became, the problem I had was the chasm became wider with my wife because of our DADT situation.

[Dana44]

Nicky, I read this and you do have a point. Yet an obsession is a thing one gets attached to. For a male to cross-dress there are deeper physiological reasons for each of us. Now normal, wow I can't deny that wearing a skirt and heels are very sexy and I feel that way when I wear them. I had on my very short mini. My so said wear that when we are not going out. Nice Janet heels and my long legs looked fantastic. But for me, it is the expression of my feminine side. I have a very male exterior and it is so nice to drop that be the female side of me. Yet it is all still there. Sometimes I wonder if it is crazy to do this. I cannot see myself ever quitting this. It also brings my SO and I closer in ways different than sex. I'm still trying to get a handle on that. I went as a male last weekend to a conference. She asked me why I did not go as a girl. I told here that I thought she wanted the male me with her. She said that when we are in different cities that I should take advantage of that. Wow, yet I can go at how I feel at the time. Anyways my feminine side is with me and some days I have woke up and said that I'm a girl today. I've done that all my life. I don't think anyone really notices and I can switch back in an instant when I have to respond in male mode. The A-type males have over time said things to me. Yet I walked though this world fearless as my male self and was respected for that. When I dress up either as a male or my fem side, I try to look the best that I can. It is that, that drives us to look our very best as our female selves. Is it normal?... Is it a problem? Should we be concerned. Why yes we should. It is a male world and us girls should stick together, we have come a long way.

[Samantha Clark]

I read all of your post and the replies. I totally understand your point. I'm ok with your grammar, structure and spelling but then again I'm ok with James Joyce and others with a unique style. You definitely have your own style and that's ok by me.

That said I'm not the same as you. I don't want to be a man in a dress or become normalized. I want to be a man, yes, but I also want to let the inner girl loose on occasion. If that starts to feel normal then it doesn't seem it would be as exciting as it is currently. That's just me.

[NickyLycra]

Hello All

Thank you all so very much for the warm reception to my excited child like outburst.

So ....... I shall not write on a Saturday night after relaxing with a couple of wines.
At the time it was the most important thing I had to share with the world, it all made perfect sense to me.

I'm sure next time I write, it'll be a little less wordy.

N

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Nicky, CROSSDRESSING, It's just who I am , And it's just what I do !:daydreaming:

Welcome to our forum, When you are here , You are home!:hugs:

[JayeLefaye]

Here's the the interesting thing [This is life changing for anyone in a relationship that is strained by their crossdressing]

Acceptance
Confidence
Normalisation

When I found those three things myself I finally found a SO that accepts me for being me.

For me Confidence is a mindset: OWN it is part of what makes you YOU
Normalisation turns something that have been called many things including dirty perverted and secret into something that's just ..... well normal.



Hi Nicky, and welcome to the Forum!

Personally, I like rambling brain dumps:-) They give me an opportunity to pick and choose and find something in common with how I feel, s opposed to a three sentence post that I totally disagree with. Personally, I didn't sense that you were speaking for everyone. To me, you were simply sharing YOUR Journey, and I'm thrilled that it has developed the way that it has.

I quoted the above passage, which speaks to those without SO's yet, because in my own life, I found it to be completely true...Granted, you fibbed a little with earlier gals as to using excuses to wear what you wanted to wear, but it worked out ok, and in the end, you DID own it, so YAY!!!

If I had to briefly sum up my own feelings with wearing...whatever:-)...it is simply: Wear it like you mean it.

Confidence goes a long ways.

Jaye

[sometimes_miss]

Nicky, I'm going to be stepping on a lot of toes here, but crossdressing isn't normal. If it were, a whole lot of other people would be doing it. But I'm not going to say that it's evil, either. AFter all, there are some people who have tattoos all over their bodies, and that's not normal either. But it's harmless. And that's what we somehow have to get the rest of the world to understand. The single biggest problem is that so many people feel the need to search for the one, and only one, reason why we crossdress, because that search is going to fail. Consider this: Why do you eat? Maybe you're hungry. Maybe you're using eating to suppress feeling sad or lonely. Maybe you're nervous. maybe you just want to put something in your mouth as an excuse because you're in a conversation and don't know what to say. Maybe you have another psychological disorder that makes you want to consume particular substances. Maybe your blood sugar is low. maybe (in the case of women) you have hormonal changes which cause cravings for stuff. So there are lots of reasons why we eat. And there are lots of reasons why people crossdress as well. Some are born that way. Some were conditioned into it. Some get sexually aroused by it, others don't. Some are gay and in denial. Some feel that they can't be successful as men (not tall enough, not skilled in manly things enough, not good fighters, etc.) and so wish desperately that they could be women because they believe that they could successfully accomplish the challenges of being a woman. And that's just off the top of my head.

AFAIK, the main reason it's not considered an obsession is because it does not respond to known treatments for OCD.

[charlenemichaels]

Nicky - Welcome, I have the same issue. My fingers are flying faster than the real words, grammar and so forth i meant to say. We need to step back and let the keys cool down :)

Your safe here as you see the responses and i'm just commenting to show support for your ideas.

My confidence comes from (unfortunately) not sharing with a non-tolerent SO.
It has been archieved on my own with avoiding the confrontation of my SO.

It has been on my list to rekindle a dialogue once more soon.

Enjoy and welcome once more!
~Char




Thanks for the feeback

I think I might rewrite again ..... enough people have said I've written jibber and .... yup looks like I have in my excitement exploded.

I'll give it another go in the not to distant future when I have the time to be articulate.

[Jorja]

So after really working to concentrate on what you were trying to say, I have only one question. Are you happy with your life when you dress the way you want too? If so then that is all that matters in life.

[UNDERDRESSER]

Nicky, I'm going to be stepping on a lot of toes here, but crossdressing isn't normal. If it were, a whole lot of other people would be doing it. Ouch! My toes! (joke) What is normal? What is average? Who wants to be average? Well, some do. They have early conditioning that is really hard to fight. Most of the Japanese tend to be like that, the urge to conform is huge for them. But what do they conform to? It is expected as a mid/upper lever office worker to go out and get thoroughly drunk with your colleagues, whether you like it or not. Is that normal?

AFter all, there are some people who have tattoos all over their bodies, and that's not normal either. Getting much more common these days. I estimate well over half my co-workers have tattoos, my GF wants one, and she's 41! Tattoos have been around for a lot longer than some "modern" ideas of normal.


But it's harmless. And that's what we somehow have to get the rest of the world to understand. The single biggest problem is that so many people feel the need to search for the one, and only one, reason why we crossdress, because that search is going to fail. Consider this: Why do you eat? Maybe you're hungry. Maybe you're using eating to suppress feeling sad or lonely. Maybe you're nervous. maybe you just want to put something in your mouth as an excuse because you're in a conversation and don't know what to say. Maybe you have another psychological disorder that makes you want to consume particular substances. Maybe your blood sugar is low. maybe (in the case of women) you have hormonal changes which cause cravings for stuff. So there are lots of reasons why we eat. And there are lots of reasons why people crossdress as well. Good way of looking at it