Spoke too soon.

[I Am Paula]

I know I've spoken about how my 19 year marriage has survived my transition. In fact, many of you have 'congrats'ed' me on it.
I feel I spoke too soon. I think it is about to implode. My wife finally brought out into the open all her thoughts on our marriage, and I have to say, at least from her perspective, it's a goner. Also, her family has suggested I move away, in their words 'Anytime...now'. I don't have to listen to them, but it's certainly a concern.
For the last few years we have had a very platonic relationship. We live in the same home, but that's about it. I always thought she at least enjoyed my company, since we go out, and shop together, go for dinner, movies, etc.
Now come the people I know in the RW. But you have a boyfriend! This is true, and as far as I know, she doesn't know (although she has met him, and finds him charming), not because it's a big secret, but because she really does not need to know, given our situation.
I think it's just a giant set of cosmic circumstances that have come together, and it is just time to end it. The marriage has run it's course, and although my transition is a big factor, it was over anyway.
No real question here, just kinda needed to rant.
Another one bites the dust.

[Suzanne F]

Paula
I hope you have grace to go through this. Don't feel alone. Right now my marriage is going well but I know how fragile that is. We will be with you.
Suzanne

[Janice Ashton]

Hi Paula,

There may appear a trend here as I had a similar situation with my ex wife and a partner who I tried to make a go of it with when I came out to them.
Women (wives, partners,) when confronted with the situation of being told of a persons gender situation or the difficulties they face tend to initially accept the situation may be it begrudgingly at first. Then they get as much information from you as possible about who you are and how far you wish to go with your declaration of gender change. Then they appear to assess their position as a wife or partner then in a lot of cases (not all) fire you out of the door.

Strange because my ex wife divorced me for being Transgender (it was sited on my divorce papers) and at the time she said it was an insult to her femininity and she couldn't cope with me in her life. 'Yet' now that we have been apart for many years she has become one of my biggest supporters and now says she can see where I am and the feelings I have and as she is no longer involved with me she can accept my situation a lot better... Strange but maybe not so strange as I can see better her feelings and situation at the time we divorced... Time 'Eh' seems to have a rather big involvement in most things.

Well all I can say is good luck Paula and I hope all works out for you and the family in the future

[Bria]

Divorce is never fun even if the relationship has been over for a while. I have the utmost regard for those that can make it works at least for a while. You know that you tried to make it work.

I'll remember you and your family in my prayers,

Hugs, Bria

[Dianne S]

Good luck, Paula. It's always sad when a long-term relationship ends.

[Jennifer-GWN]

Oh Paula ... Am I allowed a holy crap. This saddens me although I do understand the situation/predicament. Sure wish I was local to come and give you a hug of support and sympathy.

Your friend... Jennifer

[Veron1ca]

Sorry to hear. Even though it may be a ending to a situation.. at least it's not a bad ending when you realize it's run it's course. It also means there will be a hello somewhere and a start to a new situation..

Think of all the baggage you've let go off and fly free like a bird.

[steftoday]

Sorry to hear of this Paula. I hope things turn out as well as they can for you.

[JC]

you have a boyfriend so not your so's dedicated mate

she does not need to know about him due to XXXXX

platonic relationship but enjoy each other's company

and you winder about the possibility pf divorse???????????

[Leah Lynn]

Paula, I'm sending a virtual hug! Even an amicable parting is bittersweet. Time for a new chapter in "The Life Of Paula".

Big Hug,

Leah

[I Am Paula]

JC, I didn't say that anything came as a surprise. Our marriage ended well before my transition.

[Karen62]

Paula, been there, lived that. Remember to celebrate what you have in life, not forever mourn what you've lost. At the very least, you're living your true life now. There's a core of life fulfillment there that can't be denied. I know that as well. I hope you and your spouse can sort through the rubble of a broken relationship and have a friendship in the end. My ex and I have managed to get there, although it took quite a bit of time for that to finally develop. I came out to her this year, long after we divorced (after our 17-year marriage failed in 2005), and for my birthday this past mid-June, she gave me a sterling silver necklace with a sterling silver letter "k" as a pendant. It was her way of celebrating my final realization of my truth, and it made me cry in front of her over her amazing thoughtfulness. I wear it all the time now. I hope you and your spouse eventually get there as well. Grieve over the moment, of course, but remember what you have left in your life and know things will get better. I wish you all the best, my dear.

Karen

[PaulaQ]

I'm so sorry Paula. I know from firsthand experience how much this hurts.

The odds of most of our marriages surviving transition are really low.

I suspect you'll find, over time, that you are better off, anyway, although I know that is no comfort now.

[Eringirl]

Wow....so sorry Paula! I was rooting for ya'll...But I get it. This is my life as well. When it finally came down to it, my ex told me that she had started to check out of the marriage 5 years before we separated, so it was already a done deal in her mind. I only hope that it will be amicable and that cooler minds prevail. But yes, it is sad, for sure. It still must be hard on you.

Thinking of you....

Erin

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Actually i'm not sorry at all..

As you say your marraige was over before the transition..i'm not sure what was being accomplished for either one of you.

You have a boyfriend..your wife deserves her own relationship just like you do.

I'm glad for both of you that the inevitable has happened and you can both move on

...if you are close i hope you can both stay close

[Krisi]

Paula, that's a shame, but it could be for the best. Both of you need someone to love and I suspect both of you need to be able to express love physically. You can both move on and hopefully find happiness.

[PretzelGirl]

I am sorry that you feel pain from the finality of it. It may have been inevitable and the right thing to do, but ending a relationship of 19 years under most circumstances will come with a high level of pain and reflection. I hope that the two of you will be able to move along paths that make you happy.

[STACY B]

This whole thing is Baffling to me,, Over before Transition ? Boy Friends ? Hell what is everyone talking about ? The loss of a Friend ? You can still be friends and not live together . Seems to me like someone was holding on for nothing? Sound like just not wanting to give up and divorce and confirm it was over for sure.

That Boy Friend thing got me ,,, That would not fly with me ,, We would have to go our separate ways before all that Craziness would take place, Hell this is all Crazy to me ,,lol,,, Sorry for the loss of your Wife,,Friend ,,, ?

[cheryl reeves]

what baffles me is when transitioning takes place one wants to stay married,i know some who made it for a few yrs. and they were baffled when divorce hit them. wake up your wife married a guy not a woman. then the boyfriend thing on the side without wife knowing,thats adultery. im happy your wife is letting you go so you can both be free to start new lives..

[Nigella]

Cheryl, when you wear our shoes and walk in our steps, maybe, just maybe, you may begin to understand that marriage is not just about man and a woman, hell even in your neck of the woods the SCOTUS have just said as much.

[rachael.davis]

I won't comment on the gender transition, but if you have a boyfriend who is meeting your emotional, and physical needs you have already withdrawn from the platonic marriage you're in.

[Krisi]

A lot of people would disagree but I'm not going to argue that here.

What we do have is a woman who married a man and that man is now turning into a woman. I'll bet that possibility wasn't discussed before the marriage and in this case, the woman puts great importance on her mate being a man. That's actually pretty normal outside of transsexual circles.

All you have to do is turn this around and ask yourself how you would likely take it if your wife had her breasts removed, cut her hair short and started taking male hormones so she could grow a beard. The person who was once your lovely wife is now a dude and you're looking him in the face every morning when you wake up.

Unless you're living alone on an island, transition is a really complicated process. It's far more than just pills and surgery.

BTW: That "boyfriend" thing, that's called "cheating" or perhaps "adultery". If the marriage wasn't already over, that pretty well seals it.

[Suzanne F]

I can't believe what I am reading. Yes this many times leads to divorce. But not always and even if it does it is not always so harsh. So far my wife and I are making it work. I see the miracle of it every day. Even if it fails in the end it has been a beautiful process. Finally, a person who really knows who I am stayed with me to be with the real me. Even if for a week I would take that over a lie for fifty years. I would think women here would not be so black and white and dismissive. We are worth discomfort if we are loving and kind and trying to do the next right thing. I hope that I would do the same for my wife.
Suzanne

[arbon]

good grief she does not need to be lectured on this! She is and has been fully in touch with the reality of the situation.

Many of us go through the same thing. Me and my wife have struggled with how to define our relationship for years but are mostly still married for financial reasons and to raise our daughter. We are still very good friends but it does get very complicated and there are still lots of feelings for both of us as we go through what was lost between us.

[Jennifer-GWN]

A sense of duty and following through with our commitments is a strong trait for many of us. I wish I were still with my wife as well to some degree. I do think we've been very good at carving out a relationship that works and remain close dispite being parted. On some level I'm guessing my official status change will actually bring us closer together.

Paula; you need to find the place that works best for you everyone's situation is different and often complex (goes with the territory). I know you'll be strong and you have us to draw strength from as you chart a path forward.

We're here for you girlfriend.

Cheers... Jennifer

[jigna]

Sorry to hear this. Don't think you are alone.
We are all with you.

[Nicole Erin]

...I think it's just a giant set of cosmic circumstances that have come together, and it is just time to end it. The marriage has run it's course, and although my transition is a big factor, it was over anyway.


At least you two are splitting on good terms. Usually when people divorce, there are several factors involved.
I think both of you will feel better once the divorce is legal and you two have moved on.

That is not to say you shouldn't have contact if you both wish. I was married 14 years and we divorced for several factors, my transitioning being probably the main reason. Five years later, we still stay in touch.

For you and your wife, maybe you two still love each other and always will but just cannot sustain a marriage together. That is alright. Calling a relationship a "marriage", especially when it is a legally binding one, just puts on a lot more pressure. Once the pressure is off, you two might be better friends than you thought possible.

I think you two will be just fine as friends.

[Michelle.M]

what baffles me is when transitioning takes place one wants to stay married

Um, maybe because they might actually have a meaningful relationship that weathers this storm better than other couples do? Not everything is fatal to every marriage. Not so baffling.


wake up your wife married a guy not a woman.

. . . AAAND the obligatory internalized transphobia! Check that block for the thread.


then the boyfriend thing on the side without wife knowing,thats adultery. im happy your wife is letting you go so you can both be free to start new lives..

Thanks for the unsolicited moral condemnation and judgment. You're not helping.

[Dianne S]

your wife married a guy not a woman.

. . . AAAND the obligatory internalized transphobia!

Well, I think that's possibly a little harsh. I do not believe it's fair to accuse women who cannot handle their SO transitioning of being transphobic. Some (most?) women who marry a guy really don't want to be in an intimate relationship with that person if the person looks like, lives as, and calls herself a woman.

[STACY B]

Cheryl, when you wear our shoes and walk in our steps, maybe, just maybe, you may begin to understand that marriage is not just about man and a woman, hell even in your neck of the woods the SCOTUS have just said as much.


Oh I have your shoes on Sister,, An I know all to well that Marriage is about Love of the Soul,, Not genitals or anything else to do with sex,, We can satisfy each other in all kinds of ways and still be faithful to each other. That is why I said what I said,,, I am truly Sorry for the actual Divorce ,, But I think it was over when the cheating started?

[stefan37]

It really wasn't cheating. They were married and lived platonically sleeping in separate rooms. I'm sure had her wife dated. Paula would have been fine with it.

Transition and marriage is a complicated issue. I have experience with many of my friends and their relationships including my own. I personally know none that have survived although many have tried. Except for the few marriages on this forum.

[PretzelGirl]

what baffles me is when transitioning takes place one wants to stay married,i know some who made it for a few yrs. and they were baffled when divorce hit them. wake up your wife married a guy not a woman. then the boyfriend thing on the side without wife knowing,thats adultery. im happy your wife is letting you go so you can both be free to start new lives..

I am going even a step further Cheryl. My marriage is just as good after my transition, which was days before our 25th anniversary. I know my wife is in the minority in that she went through everything with me and didn't withdraw one iota, but I also have multiple friends in similar situations. Guess what? Sexual orientation isn't binary no more than Gender Identity is. Wake up, my wife married me, not a man!

I also will say, Paula has been here a long time and has helped many. Every step of the way, I suspect she knew exactly where she was heading and what the possible outcomes were. This be about empathy for a loss. But no matter what the situation is and what the expectation was, it is still a sense of loss among the many we may go through. This should be about empathy for a loss, not judgement of her marriage.

[Michelle.M]

Well, I think that's possibly a little harsh. I do not believe it's fair to accuse women who cannot handle their SO transitioning of being transphobic.

My point was that cheryl was so quick to dismiss the marriage problem by perpetuating the notion that it was entirely natural that the marriage would end now that Paula's gender identity and presentation are a real-life fact. Although it's very common it's not necessarily a given, and cheryl's narrow and cisnormative viewpoint seems to be an expression of her internalized transphobia. I was not referring to Paula's wife.

[cheryl reeves]

narrow minded,so we now are to condone cheating on ones spouse as acceptable? im not narrow minded,i just face reality in the face and move on. im ts and will not transition period,i love my wife and even though she knew i was a cd at the time,she married me for the male part of me. i knew what i was getting into for i wanted to have kids ,i made a trade off that works for me. as for walking in yalls shoes,yall would throw my shoes back at me and tell me im to intense. some marriages work for a time then end after one transitions,not unless your wife was bi or a lesbian when you got married,women love being held by a male,paula wants to be held by a male,and yall wonder why the marriage was toast when she transitioned,paula was being satisfied while her wife was not. so dont come jumping at me for speaking the truth,i hate narrow minded people who call others names for speaking the truth.

[Rachel Smith]

Paula my situation was similar. I found once I grieved the loss of someone that meant a lot to me for many years I was happy it was finally over. It hurt but in the end I felt better about the situation and myself. I hope you will as well.

[Michelle.M]

so dont come jumping at me for speaking the truth,i hate narrow minded people who call others names for speaking the truth.

I respect that your truth may be valid for your situation, but that doesn't apply to everyone. It's unfair to criticize Paula for doing something you wouldn't do, especially since you're making your assessment from a distance and via a computer screen (and I'm guessing you haven't had any conversations with her, either).

And it seems a little odd that we'd judge someone's relationship from a religious perspective (adultery, although codified in civil law, is biblical doctrine) when that same religious perspective generally vilifies us for claiming our gender identities.

Let's not have any of this "speaking the truth" nonsense. Your truth and Paula's truth are not the same.

[Nigella]

... some marriages work for a time then end after one transitions...

Ok I am two years Post Op, my SO knew before me that I was TS, she was given plenty of opportunity to walk away, recently she made an official declaration that she wished to remain married when my "legal" gender status was changed. There are many instances where marriages survive transition, yes some do end, there is no denying that.


... not unless your wife was bi or a lesbian when you got married

My SO has no interest in being intimate with another woman, never has, she married me because she loved me not my bits, it was just unfortunate at the time I was pretending but didn't know it.


... women love being held by a male,

So does that mean the my SO does not love cuddling with me? Pity you could not see her face when we hold each other. Oh and how do those in a same cis relationship, i.e. lesbians feel when they are held by their partners are they really thinking that they want to be held by a man?


So dont come jumping at me for speaking the truth,i hate narrow minded people who call others names for speaking the truth.

Who's truth, certainly not mine and not for others on this forum. Yes we accept that there are differences, but what we don't accept is your intolerance of others views, stop ramming your version of things down our throats and accept that your way is not exclusive.

[Sandra]

cheryl reeves

We don't know the full story about Paula and her full situation so what give you the right to say what you have :Angry3:

Lets get one thing straight here I'm married to Nigella and I am not bi or lesbian as you seem to think I am, and how dare you suggest that when you don't even know me? ...you talk a load of :BS: regarding this and god knows why I'm even explaining myself to someone who thinks what she says/does is right....crawl back into your little world hun and let the serious girls play here.

[Nicole Erin]

Why are a few of the long-timers here arguing with some damned noob in the first place?

Ehh whatever, there is always at least one troll wanting to tell the members here what screw-ups we are.

[Tamara Croft]

Ehh whatever, there is always at least one troll wanting to tell the members here what screw-ups we are.

These trolls tend to get my foot firmly up their butts if they carry on trolling... just don't feed them, they'll soon get bored and move on :)

Paula, just wanted to give you a :hugs: :hugs: or two xx

Sandra and Nigella are my long time friends/sisters on here and personally, they love each other very much and anyone thinks differently, well you don't know them.

[cheryl reeves]

wow name calling over the truth,hmm truth and reality tends to hurt when reality kicks in. i may be a noob as you call it here,but im far from being a noob,i been active since 99 on other boards,thats hw we met helen and her so,and a few wonderful married couples when we used to go to meetings,ive also talked to a few who got trapped in the pink fog and transitioned,and regretted it. i dont know paula,but ive known a few in her shoes and they wondered why the marriage broke up.
so let me ask yall this,so its alright to cheat on your spouse once the marriage goes platonic? im sorry i cant feel for paula,but i do feel for her spouse.

p.s. im not a troll,but you have the right to get nasty towards me for thats yalls right. besides i have been called worse for speaking the truth and refusing to jump on the same band wagon as everyone else seems to do. im going to be 50 next month and have seen and dealt with alot in those yrs. and have always gone my own way.

[Nigella]

OK this stops right now, we are not here to judge anyone's relationship, it has nothing to do with anyone outside the relationship. This thread is about how Paula is now aware of her marriage being over.

If all you have to say is negative comments about the relationship, then don't bother posting. I do not wish to see anymore views on the rights or wrongs about what you feel on how a relationship should be. You are not living in it, don't judge others by your standards.

OK back to normality

[Jennifer-GWN]

Here here Nigella... Thanks for stepping in.

Paula...we are here for you!

All the best... Jennifer

[Kathryn Martin]

I began transition 5 years ago. I am still married and very happily so even. In our situation sustaining your marriage relationship is neither easy nor can it be done without a lot of work and goodwill from all sides. Krisi, I couldn't care less if my wife decided to transition to male, SHE is the person I love. Not for her sex but for who she is. She, fortunately feels the same. And e are one heterosexual and one bi-sexual partner in this marriage.

Not all marriages are doomed to fail.

Paula, it makes me sad at you and she have to go through this. It I never easy, and always a revisiting of common histories. I wish you much inner strength and never lose sight of your future.

[kimdl93]

Sorry to hear that the relationship has run its course. It does seem that it's not a long step from platonic relationship to no relationship at all. I wish the best for you in this unexpected situation.

[donnalee]

Paula, I'm sorry to hear this, but it may be for the best. Good wishes for both of you.

[I Am Paula]

It's been a tense month, with lots of ups and downs. I had (sort of) accepted my marriage as being over, and even found a place to live. Surprisingly, Barb and I have talked more than we have in the ten previous years. The deep stuff, not just small talk that has become our norm.
There was not a lot of concessions to make on my side, Paula is here to stay. Barb has decided (for now) to accept my transition, if the only other option is separation. She said she knew my transition was permanent, but held onto a belief that I may come to my senses. As that didn't happen, she manifested her displeasure as anger.
After a lot of discussion, we have mutually decided that on some very strange level, our relationship works, we enjoy each others company, and have some distant need for each other. We work better as a team. Our relationship will remain as room mates. Neither of us has any desire for a physical relationship.
I offered her a divorce. If she felt better staying together, but not married, and using her maiden name, that would be fine. One of her biggest objections has been being in a 'gay' marriage, and what society may think (so far 'society' hasn't made a peep). She says she's fine as it is. She told her meddling Father, and Brother to lay off, she had made her choice.
It may sound lopsided, with all the concessions being on her side, but truly, I did what I had to do to survive. I hoped I wouldn't leave any collateral damage, but I was prepared for any eventuality.
We have decided to work our hardest at getting along. No guarantees. She's not entirely to blame. I responded to her anger with more of my own, and that turned into an ugly back and forth. She said she will try to bite her tongue if she has something nasty to say, and I will bite mine should I have a sarcastic, or caustic retort.
Neither of us wants a stalemate. It will work, or it won't. I'm hoping it works.

Thanks to all your responses to my last post. You may, or may not agree with choices I've made. That is the purpose of a forum.

[Rianna Humble]

Sounds like some serious progress in understanding each other. Here's hoping it works out well for the two of you.

[Jennifer-GWN]

Paula...

Good to hear you've reached a state of stability at home and I'm confident it will work fine as it has been for a while. I think sometimes the pot has to boil over to know to turn down the heat a bit. Now that things are out on the table hopefully the family will come inline. I hope your doing good and maintaining that smile. If you need a break you can always come down to NS for a restbit ��

Cheers... Jennifer

[I Am Paula]

Thanks Jennifer. You know a lot more of the back story, so when I have a moment, I'll catch you up. We are both realizing we make a good team.

[Bria]

Paula, I'm glad to hear that things have calmed down at least for the moment. Your wife's feelings are still evolving, so you may not know for a while where the equilibrium point is. I will continue to remember you both in my prayers.

Hugs, Bria

[Sandra]

Pleased you have both been able to talk with each other and hopefully things will work for both of you :)

[PaulaQ]

With transition, unfortunately, there is really no compromise to be made. The compromises were, initially all on your part - you avoided it as long as you could. Since you can no longer do that, there really is no compromise left on your part, it all comes down to our partners. This sucks, but it was totally one-sided in the other direction.

BTW, identities that are some sort of compromise between male and female do exist - but unless that's who you are, such a compromise will never work. And honestly, people who wish for such a compromise don't understand that people who don't conform to norms for either gender are actually much harder for most of society to understand. This isn't to say they aren't valid - they are. They simply aren't the easy way out that some might hope for. And in any case, someone who identifies that way won't compromise either. We are who we are.

[Krisi]

That's good news Paula and I hope everything works out for the best for both of you. But what about the "boyfriend"?

[Eringirl]

Glad to hear it Paula!! I hope it continues to work out for you both. It will take a lot of work, everyday, but if you are both committed to it, then you will both contribute in a positive way to make it work. Hope you are feeling a bit more settled now....

Small steps....

Stay in touch.

Ciao

Erin

[kimdl93]

Paula, very good news on the turn about. Especially the impact that long, deep and honest conversations can have. At least for now, it seems that you've arrived at a workable deal. I suppose it's an unconventional arrangement by some standards, but then we are an unconventional lot!

[Suzanne F]

Keep us posted Paula. I know that I am trying very hard to maintain my relationship with my wife. It helps to hear how others are attempting the same thing. Good luck!
Suzanne

[MssHyde]

Sorry to read your marraige is over, Im going through it now..its bad enough to loose a loved mate, but to be broken financially then thrown under the bus to joint friends an family so they can rally support is even worse.

In my case the above is true, in addition she accused me of cheating becauce I made love to her in a way she throughly enjoyed, she threw in where did you learn that, she could not except i loved her with my whole heart.

[Tamara Croft]

Just catching up with your update, it's good that you can come to an agreement :) just take each day as it comes and hope for the best, that's all we can do in life x