25 years ago,at age 13, my daughter saw me or leanred that I crossdressed by accident

[Gigicd]

Her psychiatrist said this was introducing her to "grown up things" and was abuse.
(It was accidental, though she then was told more from vindictive ex-wife)

A shrink has recommended the daughter not speak to me or see me or have me in her
life, viewing the accidental revelation of CD-ing as abuse to a child.

Now, she's 40, and she believes every problem in her life stems from my being CD and
her being aware of it, however limited, as a child. Her shrink says this is what has caused her
great anxiety in life and all her problems.

She has followed the doctor's recommendation and become estranged from me for the last two
years. Leading also to witholding the grandchildren from seeing me.

Is the psychiatrist right? Please try to be objective in expressing your opinion on this.

Thank you

[kimdl93]

No, your daughter's psychiatrist is not right. What outfit her shrink have said if your daughter had accidentally seen your and your wife having sex...any manner of sex? Would that have been introducing her to grown up things, and if I might add, what if she had stumbled upon mothers little helper in a dresser drawer? My goodness, the trauma of realizing your parents are human.

I do suppose that you're an easy scapegoat for your daughters problems. It's also possible that your daughter has made up much of what she attributes to her psychiatrist. I've never known one to recommend estrangement, nor frankly to apply such sweeping causal assumptions.

My only thought is that you could ask for an opportunity to discuss with her psychiatrist the comments attributed to him/her. In the mean time, just let your daughter know that despite her feelings at the moment, you remain there for her. There is little else you can or should do.

[Kate Simmons]

Nope, I agree with Kim. That's totally absurd. Your daughter is a grown woman.She should have worked out any issues she had by now. Evidently she had a bad model growing up and it's not you but your ex. People who can't deal with their own issues usually scapegoat someone else. It's not your fault at all the way I see it my friend.:)

[Camille15]

Her psych may not be right, but you never know what other things have been discussed between the 2 of them without your knowledge. There could be more going on here. Or it could really have scarred her in a way you don't understand, based on things she made up about it in her head and never talked about until recently.

It's hard, but I think you're limited in what you can do. Probably the best thing you can do is to tell your daughter that you love her, that you're sorry anything you did caused her problems, and that you will always be willing to help her in any way she needs. But above all else you want her to live a happy life, and if having distance from you is what helps with that, then you will do it for her because you love her. Do this without any guilt or accusations or self-defense, or it won't mean the same to her. Also ask her if it's OK if you check-in once a year via email, just to see how she is, and send cards on holidays.

If she can see that you respect her needs, then you set yourself up for her to trust that you only want what's best for her. That could possibly lead to a better relationship down the road if and when she's ready for it. If you force this though, or try to make accusations or a strong defense of yourself, then it will only push her away more. Don't give any reason to not trust you, or to make her view you with contentiousness. Try only to be someone that only fills her emotional well, or at minimum, doesn't drain it.

Hope I'm not being offensive here. This is coming from personal experience with my own parents. Of course do what you think is best, since you know your daughter.

Camille

[Gigicd]

Thank you, Kim. As I understand it from the very, very few words spoken in two years, the psychiatrist states that an abused child should not associate with her abuser later in life, for example a family member or relative. I gather that this would not apply to a child's seeing her parents having sex or seeing a sex toy. Because those are not perversions like abuse and cd'ing, which seem to be in the shrink's mind, or my daughter's equal in their deprevation or damage to a child to experience.

Of course I don't know what the shrink has really told my daughter, but knowing my daughter I am certain she has not been fully truthful in what she's said to the shink. IOW the shrink has only heard HER side of the story.

But in the psychiatric professiona and in the DSM, is it a standard of care to instruct an abuse victim to never speak to her abuser? That is definitely the category I am being put in as a cd-er. (And of course that's when I was young; I am quite a senior citizen now.)

Kate, those are very perceptive observations, and encouraging, too.

Camille---thank you for your thoughts. Iinterestingly enough I've been reading a lot on estrangement and alienation of parents by their adult children (it's virtually an epidemic; there's tons online on blogs, etc.)

And your words tie out with the mixed-up conundrum of how to handle just plain estrangement, even without the "abuse" issue involved.

My daughter's estrangement is such that an attempt at conversation with her would devolve immediately into hell, awakening the devil himself with vituperative and cutting words from her before I got one word out.

I did not mention, but part of my insight about the shrink and about my daughter's estrangement comes from her husband---I asked him recently why does she hate me. He said she doesn't hate you, and then said the things that I have passed along here.

[nvlady]

What a quack!!
A psychiatrist should help a person realize there will be good and bad experiences in life and teach this person how to accept some of the bad things and move on from there, not to dwell on the bad and turn a molehill into a mountain.

[kimdl93]

I can't speak to the DSM, but I would very strongly challenge the notion that one could claim 'abuse' any accidental incident that 'exposed' a teen to some aspect of adult reality.

By that logic, my father abused me when he raised his voice. My mother abused me when I accidentally saw her bottom. My god, the list can go on and on. My point is, either the shrink is a quack, your daughter is a liar, or ther was a lot more going on that you left out. In any case, I do not believe the idea that anyone not convicted of a felony can be or should be ostracized based on such an incident.

It's utter BS.

[TrishaTX]

Oh boy that seems incorrect. My guess like others on here is there is other stuff floating around, conversations you are not aware of. In order to mend this you will have to work extra hard, but it is worth it...kids always are. keep trying because if you fix the relationship it will be well worth it.

[Lena]

Sounds like she's got a crazy shrink. Are you sure she is only blaming you for exposing this? Sure she isn't claiming something else happened? Either way, seems like group counseling or you talking one on one with her counseler if possible could help clear up the issue.

[lingerieLiz]

Unfortunately, some psychiatrist are worthless. As for your daughter you are limited in what you can do. I've been amazed at the number of people who have personal problems blame it on others including parents. Today we have councilors that help people find excuses for their weaknesses.

[OCCarly]

Okay so I guess lawyers, *****s and politicians are not the only folks in the world who will say anything you want to hear if the price is right. We can now add shrinks to that list as well.

Personally, I think that when Pandora opened the box, blame was the worst thing that got out of there.

Sorry for your troubles.

[jjjjohanne]

If a majority of her problems go away once you are out of her life, then there is evidence that you are to blame. Don't you think? I assume that problems follow people when they run from situations. In any case, this stinks. You need her in your life and she needs you. You being a CD and being seen as one does not automatically make you a bad father. In fact, the most common negative thing I see said about CD fathers and husbands has to do with selfishness that is tied into their CDing. The lying, the neglect of children, etc. Stuff that I think you would hear about if it was an alcohol addiction, etc. That has caused me to conclude that for such men, their CDing is following the pattern of an addiction.

But, I don't know and I am not qualified to speak with any confidence on such things because of my lack of knowledge and experience.

[Rachelakld]

I saw my parents having sex when I was 11,
I saw my grandma die when I was 13,
I (edit killed) a rabbit at 13
I saw porn at 14

God was I ever abused - can I be a VICTEM pleeease, and have issues, and maybe sue someone for cold hard cash.

Shrinks are meant to help people overcome issues, not subconsciously plant issues (although it does bring in more money for them).

[cheryl reeves]

that shrink needs to be reported for she is full of it. we told our son when he was 10 and he turned out just fine,he's also met cheryl and loves her.

[Judith96a]

Sounds like the shrink has an agenda (in addition to their usual one, ie squeeze as much money out of the client as possible)

[Sara Jessica]

Your story is simply heartbreaking. I cannot fathom life being estranged by any of my children.

The viewpoint here is going to be colored by our collective experiences. It won't be necessarily objective. However, one solution you might consider is to meet her with another counselor. Kind of like couples therapy but for you and your daughter. The trick will be to find a neutral counselor who has no agenda for either side, and that both of you trust that no such agenda exists. Perhaps easier said than done.

Best of luck.

[I Am Paula]

That Psychiatrist is loopier than a hand made rug, and ought to be drummed out of business. Perhaps he/she was traumatized as a child, and is projecting that upon his/her patients. Remember back in the eighties when shrinks were implanting made up memories into patients, and then claiming they were discovering repressed memories. This is the same kind of hokum, and just designed to keep your daughter in therapy, and therefore paying.

[Krisi]

You don't really know what the psychiatrist told your daughter, you are getting this second or third hand. It's not really fair for people to be calling him or her names without the other side of the story. I suspect the damage was done by the ex wife. This is what happens to children when the parents involve children in their disputes.

You can't make your children like you and you can't make your grandchildren like you if their mother turns them against you.

You may have some legal rights to see your grandchildren. Talk to a lawyer in family practice about this but remember that your daughter can make these visits very unpleasant for the grandchildren if she wants to.

[Carroll]

That shrink was more off base than a baseball player at a football field. My kids have seen me dressed since they were little. We had an unexpected visit from Child protective services (They were investigated someone else) one day and I had zero time for the mad dash to the bedroom, so I just stood there. After a few questions, she asked if my kids knew I dressed and we said yes. She told me it was great that I was open with the kids and I was raising them to be open-minded about the world around them.

[CD_DIANE]

I think the psychiatrist NEEDS a psychiatrist ! Some people latch on to any excuse for their problems rather than accepting and moving on. I agree with Krisi, and to paraphrase the serenity prayer.... Change what YOU can, Accept what YOU CAN'T CHANGE, and be smart enough to know the difference ! Guilt can be a nasty tool .

Diane

[CynthiaD]

Your daughter's psychiatrist may not have told her anything of the kind. But people hear what they want to hear, not what they are told.

[Amy Lynn3]

If you wanted to express your love to your daughter, without a face to face meeting, put your heart felt thoughts in a letter to her.

Something I have noticed over the years is that Psychiatrist seem to want to point at something sexual for a scapegoat. They hang their entire treatment on that one issue. As others said, it could just be a way to keep money coming in. IDK.

You may want to check with the local Medical Board to see if any complaints have been lodged against her shrink. This situation seems to be skewed in some way, to me. The very best to you.:hugs:

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Gigi, I think that the Vindictive:devil:wife may be the root of your daughters problems.:daydreaming:

[JenniferR771]

Sigh. Sue the idiot psychiatrist. He did a lot more harm than good. He thinks it is better to let a daughter grow up without a father? Without a father's love, and encouragement? Clearly this counselor was untrained in this area. Probably never had a course in transgender psychiatry; probably does not own any books on the subject; probably never attended any seminars, conferences, workshops or training on how to treat patients with such problems. Out of his depth. Like a urologist doing brain surgery.

Maybe when your lawyer talks to him--he will talk with your daughter and explain modern thinking on transgender issues. Caitlyn Jenner's daughters are OK, right?

Reminds me of the "counselor" my wife found. Told her that she shouldn't have sex with me, because he thought crossdressers were gay and there was a risk of HIV.

Later he was arrested for having sex with one of his patients.

[Rachael Leigh]

No that Dr. is wrong yes I can see how this might affect her when she was young but without her talking with you showing her how much you love her despite this part of you is so sad. Its important for children to see their parents vulnerable if they dont they will think we are perfect. We all have flaws and differences and we need to be able to teach them we are all different but our love for them never changes.

[CONSUELO]

When I told a psychiatrist about being dressed by my sisters at a very young age his immediate response was "that's abuse".

I thought his response was silly and I ignored it and I certainly would have ignored any advice to have nothing to do with my sisters.

I believe the psychological/psychiatric profession is a very confused one that sometimes seems almost medieval. I only ever met one psychologist that I respected. The rest I thought rather stupid.

Given that your daughter chooses to listen to this person I don't know if there is much you can do except be patient.

[NicoleScott]

Yes, she needs a new psych. The one she has and trusts isn't doing her any good, and allows her to wallow in excuses. At some point, adults need to get themselves out of bed every morning and face the world as it is.

[Sarah Doepner]

I would like that shrink to go to my cousin and tell him that he was inappropriately exposed to adult material when he watched the Network news years ago and it's twisted him terribly. He needs now to not watch the news on his favorite station so he can stop posting stupid stuff on Facebook and embarrassing the rest of the family. That is, unfortunately, just as valid a response as what that "Doctor" has convinced your daughter. Also unfortunately it will take a lot of work by others to undo that damage now that she has accepted it into her world view. I wish you the best of luck.

[Sallee]

Wow 25 yrs ago that happened. NOw I am not a shrink but I don't think her guy has his act together at all. HOw did you handle the revelation. Was she scolded, told it was wrong to dress, what did her mother say to her and to you. My daughter caught me at about that age, We have a great relationship, at least I think so. that was 15 yrs ago. Sounds to me like your a scapegoat and your ex is probably adding to it. A family meeting with her shrink might be in order. Mayb eyou need to meet with him first. It certainly is a family problem, so the family had to work it out together.
Good luck

[sometimes_miss]

While trying to evaluate this, I had to try to think of what it was like 25 years ago. There weren't a whole lot of gender bending people known to the public. And a 13 year old girl is at a stage where stability in her life is tremendously important, especially since her relationships with her peers are likely to be rapidly changing as well. Losing her most reliable stable person, her dad, to suddenly be seen as the most unstable person in her life could obviously be very traumatic. Remember too that pretty much no one else was up to speed about us back then either. The therapists I saw back then, well I had more knowledge about the subject than they did. So yeah, she might have turned out a little more screwed up than if you had not been a crossdresser. However, we also have to remember that so many other men have other things about them that can easily affect the kids as well. Drinking, drug abuse, violence, infidelity the list just goes on and on. So you can't beat yourself up over not being the perfect dad: Because there aren't a whole lot of them out there. I'm also wagering that your ex wasn't exactly too pleased with you back then either, and may also have vented those feelings to your daughter, making things even worse. Even so, it sounds like she's doing the best she can at the moment, even if it doesn't seem like it from your point of view. Hopefully time will heal the rift between you two.

[giuseppina]

If the remarks the shrink made are accurate, (s)he should be playing with the ducks rather than practising medicine. They've made a judgement based on personal biases rather than the facts. Once that happens, they've disqualified themselves as able to help your daughter.

Chances are you will not be allowed to talk with the shrink without your daughter's permission. It's a breach of professional ethics and privacy laws otherwise.

What kind of relationship do you have with your son-in-law? Maybe building trust with him is a way to solve this problem.

All this said, it is impossible to determine what others have said or done. An acrimonious divorce is not helpful.

If this problem has a solution, chances are good it will not be resolved quickly.

Perhaps seeking an independent opinion from a duly qualified and licensed mental health professional will be helpful.

[~Joanne~]

Is the psychiatrist right?


Um, absolutely NOT. CDing doesn't cause any of her problems but is a good escape goat to blame them on. I wouldn't call it abuse either. Of coarse in this world today, who knows they may call it that or many other things. I think It's time for your daughter to finally grow up and accept the fact that there are a lot different people and genders and such in the world today. With everything in the media these days it's hard to believe that she hasn't put two plus two together yet.

As for the doc, he/she is a quack at best and it sounds like your daughter has become repeat business and an endless money supply. This is the reason I have never sought therapy for any of this. I don't think they know anything more than what we already know about the subject, how can they possibly HELP? Other than having someone to talk to, they can't.

I wish you the best with your daughter, it sounds like she has more demons than dad being CD.

[Sharon B.]

Instead of putting the blame on the psychiatrist, might be the ex-wife putting things into her head.

[Tonya Rose]

The only one to blame here for your daughter`s issues is the ex-wife`s influence!! I have 2 daughters and an ex-wife believe me! she constantly tryed to make me out to be the monster. But my girls were not buying her BullS#*t At least one of them! the other im not so sure about! But i am sure it comes from the ex-wife and her insecurity`s :hugs: