Therapist comment that I need help with.

[Sarah Doepner]

Yeah, I finally decided I needed to formally deal with the conflicts, real and imagined, crossdressing brings to my life. I'm only in a couple of sessions so far and it's been nice to give myself permission to really think about gender identity in my life. It's also pointed out that I've been fooling myself when I claim to have integrated my feminine and masculine sides into one nice package, so if you read any of my older posts where I say that, consider it a lie. I'm practicing compartmentalization, segregation or gender identity aparthied and doing it quite well, thank you very much. Anyway, that part of the discussion resulted in my therapist telling me that he "viewed the world consistently through the filter of a gay man."

I'm trying to figure out how we view the world through the filter of a transgender person. So far I've only been coming up with the fear of being outted, awareness of negative consequences and the different views I have when I present male and female. So far, I'm only seeing what society (as I percieve it) has conditioned me to see and haven't really considered what the new view may look like. I'm hoping it's the same view I have but without the fear cluttering my perceptions, but maybe there's something more waiting out there.

Who has some insight on this? Any articles or books or youtube videos you can recommend on what it means or how one relates to the world as transgender?

[Kate Simmons]

From my own experience, the only way I could get a clear perspective of things was integrating all of my feelings like you say but then making everything I do my own total choice not driven by compulsion or anything else. That also means taking responsibility for my own actions and managing the consequences as what happened when my wife left me over the CDing. Even that I had to utilize as a learning experience to keep moving forward. I look at things from my own perspective as a total person. :)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I don't think the "filter of a gay man" means a darned thing to you or me...sexuality has nothing to do with gender identity

gender is the fundamental organizing principle of our species.. we gender each other almost instantly and act accordingly..it matters alot

if you live your life in the wrong gender totally (ts) or you have conflicting and fluid feelings over it, the world will come at you and generate more and more distress the longer you do not accept your gender or try to fight it

integrating feelings seems to me to be helpful to a point but you still face a world that misgenders you unless you consistenly present your proper gender.

for the cd guy who id's as a guy, this is not really a big issue (i'm assuming)

[Sarasometimes]

I think that will depend on how your little portion of the world reacts to gender variation. There is likely to be a significant difference how others in say Greenwich Village react to reading a crossdresser versus say a conservative small town USA. As you may know I frequent salons in NJ/PA cross-dressed and for the most part been treated no different than a typical GG by both staff and other clients. I would expect quite a different experience doing the same in a auto parts or hardware store.
My perception is also different than a younger CD in my neck of the woods.

[NicoleScott]

Simple. Ask the therapist what was meant by the comment.

[docrobbysherry]

If only there were consensus on what the world should look like as a male and as a female, Sarah, then, maybe seeing it thru a trans filter mite make some sense.

Personally, I was a vanilla man for 50 years and even then never knew what being a man meant. Only knew what it felt like as me! Since I began dressing? I'm CERTAIN I have no clue what feeling like a woman is like. I still only know what being ME feels like!

I hope u can work this out. I've given up trying-----

[Rachelakld]

Hi Sarah, like you I have segregated gender, basically my gender is either one or the other for most part, and only blend in extreme situations where I need to understand both sides of the issue.

I see the world through a filter of female awareness mostly now (emotive, thought full etc), but
when I was younger it was through a more physical male filter (military, guns, power tools)

[PaulaQ]

So far I've only been coming up with the fear of being outted, awareness of negative consequences and the different views I have when I present male and female. ... I'm hoping it's the same view I have but without the fear cluttering my perceptions, but maybe there's something more waiting out there.

Well, that first sentence I quoted is your answer. That's the lens you see the world through - fear.

If you were out, you would have a radically different view of the world - especially if you were in transition. For example, you would look at a medical professional, and wonder "if I lay dying on the side of the road, and this doctor came across me, would they treat me, or let me die?" and you'd know this was a reasonable thing to worry about in many, many places. Or, perhaps you'd be sitting at lunch with a very pleasant person, but the whole time, you'd wonder "is this person going to say something very, very cruel to me before the end of our meal?"

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Sarah, There are two kind of therapists,

One that tells you what YOU want to hear &

The one that tells YOUR WIFE what she wants to hear.:daydreaming:

[Teresa]

Sarah,
I'm still waiting for my gender therapy, I hope I don't a response like that from my therapist ! If your therapist brings in his own view on life I'd be concerned that he's not going to fully understand your perspective on life through a Tgers eyes !
I'm hoping to get some answers to separate assumptions in my head with what is actually reality, how far down the road am I from having a transvestic disorder to gender dysphoria ? I need some answers to formulate how the rest of my life is is going to be lived and what my family may have to accept in the process !
It's all very well being told what you see in life is only through a TGers filter other people may not grasp that and understand it, living with these problems is why many of us join the forum, we may not be professionals but we are living similar lives through our common problem !

[Suzanne F]

Since coming out and beginning to transition my filter has changed. I see the world from a much more vulnerable point of view. I used to channel every fear or slight into anger. Now I can be hurt. People see and judge the real me so it just feels so vulnerable. That can be scary but it feels more genuine and makes my experience real for the first time ever. I do not feel like life is just happening to me anymore. This has brought me much more into the present when interacting with the world. I hope this makes some sense!
Suzanne

[Katey888]

Sarah - I don't have any academic references for you, I'm afraid, but feel compelled to offer a PoV - just like most others here... ;)

I think a lot depends on how you specifically identify around the TG perspective and what you feel that means for you (or for any individual) because we are back to that hard-to-wrestle with middle-ground of folk that feel like they're TG (who have a significant need to present as female) but who still identify as male. There are probably others here better suited to comment than me (Isha, Donnagirl, MsVal, Shelly Preston... to name a few - no pressure girls.. :)) who really live that middle ground and where it must be way harder than my PoV, where I have no difficulty acknowledging that I really only see the world from a male perspective.

Let me add that may be a very enlightened male perspective, but even doing my best to encourage a high degree of femininity, I struggle to undo decades of social conditioning and feeling comfortable with being male. Whether or not there is a significant filter there, I think is questionable - sure, it's a different PoV, and if others can relate to how that changes as the need to express more feminine becomes more prevalent, then I'll be interested to hear how they explain it. :)

And while I don't have time now, or want to derail your OP too much, I think this:


for the cd guy who id's as a guy, this is not really a big issue (i'm assuming)

Is a poor assumption. It needs more expansion than this now but I think this is a common and misplaced belief here, that CDs 'have it easy' because they can revert to all the things associated with male privilege by just hanging up the dress... but it's not like that - not even for me who doesn't (I believe) fall very far into the TG 'no-mans land'... Even I have had to live with and accommodate the feelings of needing to express and reflect aspects of either gender, without knowing why, and without having a clear need to choose one or the other - I can only think it would be considerably more confusing and distressing if you find yourself in more of a 50-50 situation as the world struggles to accept fluidity whereas transition is a cleaner and more definitive concept: You were one; now you're the other! Rather than: You're not sure today and you may want to be different tomorrow but you don't know...? :eek:

Sarah - I don't suppose that helps you much, but I feel sometimes we believe there are more differences between gender perspectives of society than there actually may be... The differences are there depending on which gender you are (or present as) but all genders see the same world... I think the idea of a 'gay filter' or 'TG filter' is a bit of a red herring, personally...

Katey x

[Sarah Doepner]

Thanks for your responses. I'm beginning to think that he was calling me out for initially claiming I was owning my TG nature and then having me describe the effort I go to to compartmentalize male and female aspects of my world. Very likely he's of the opinion that I'd probably be much happier in the long run if I were to really come to terms with the variable nature of my gender identity and get out from under the cloud of fear that hovers nearby most of the time. It's a reasonable opinion and I'm willing to try. I really do dislike hiding in my own home from people I care about and hope who care about me.

It's likely that at one time he was attempting to parse the world through a gay filter and a "pretend to be straight" filter and is much happier now with a consistent take on the world. It will be a few weeks before I visit again, but I'll try to remember this and get him to clarify if possible. Stay tuned and thanks again.

[PretzelGirl]

From time to time I will say, every person owns their own trans story. In line with this, I think "the filter of a transgender person" is going to be personal to you in your context. We all identify differently and we all have differing experiences as we move through life. These things will color our view of the world to align it with our experiences.

[Pat]

I'm trying to figure out how we view the world through the filter of a transgender person. So far I've only been coming up with the fear of being outted, awareness of negative consequences and the different views I have when I present male and female. So far, I'm only seeing what society (as I percieve it) has conditioned me to see and haven't really considered what the new view may look like. I'm hoping it's the same view I have but without the fear cluttering my perceptions, but maybe there's something more waiting out there.

I would think that the filter of a transgender person would not vary depending on when you present male and female. Because male and female for our particular kind of transgender (assuming you're "MtF Crossdresser" variety -- so many different folks packed under the umbrella) is just a presentation -- it's not who we are, it's what we look like at a given moment in time. So your world filter should be the same regardless of presentation.

That's tough to achieve when you're first coming to grips with it. Because we were taught there are only two sexes based on chromosomes and there aren invariant gender roles associated with those two choices, we first have to learn a new vocabulary before we can even mutter to ourselves coherently about it. We have to learn that gender and sex aren't the same. We have to learn that there aren't just two genders, there's a continuum. And even after learning the words, we have to struggle to believe them at first. But you'll learn over time that you're not "Sarah and <guy name>" you're you. You're the same person no matter what you're wearing. That means you can have a consistent view of the world.

Now the other thing about a filter is that you can choose its bias. You mention "fear of being outed" and "awareness of negative consequences" and that's building a fear-based filter. It will only take you dark places. Because even if you use your filter to understand the world in such a way as to minimize fear, at the end minimal fear is still fear. Construct your filter to understand the world in ways that will lead you to happiness. It's not a distinction between the glass being half full or half empty -- maximizing happiness takes you to a better place than minimizing fear.

What's a filter that makes a transgender person happy? I'd say one that examines information and events to see how they impact your ability to move between presentations. If they make it easier for you to be happy, say like laws that prevent discrimination based on gender identity, then you feel they're good. If they make it harder for you to move between presentations, say laws that require you to use bathrooms based on your birth certificate, then you feel they're not good. And you can focus your energy on making life happier. The filter applies on all kinds of situations -- selection of career, choice of where you want to live, who you want to spend you life with and so on. Which is why it's important that it tends to move you in a positive direction.

:2c: no refunds. ;)

[Debb]

I am not sure about a filter, but since starting therapy in January (I go every week), I have definitely developed a more finely-tuned sense of how I am different in the various worlds I inhabit. I am far more sensitive to differences between women & men .. socially speaking.

I've always known I was "different", but the definition of "different" is becoming slightly clearer, week by week, as my therapist and I work to solve the puzzle that is my life. I am so grateful for her, and for my own decision to finally seek help.

[Marcelle]

Hi Sarah,

IMHO your therapist was using the example of him "viewing the world consistently through the filter of a gay man" to point out that until he probably came to accept he was gay, he was unable to view the world as just a person. He was most likely (IMHO) trying to guide you through self discovery and self acceptance. I live the middle ground sort to speak in that I have come to accept myself as "gender fluid" in that some periods of time I identify as a woman and others I identify as a man. It took awhile to get here (over a year of therapy and self-discovery) but now that I am here I view the world as a person. Being TG is part of who I am and will always tell people I am TG and while that reflects on how I interact with the world, it does not define me as a person it is just part of who I am. Before I accepted this I viewed the world differently, shame, embarrassment, fear, depression, anger, hostility were common buzz words. I would see happy people going merrily down the road enjoying life and hate them. I had no reason to hate them, I just wanted to be happy and smiling. I am there now, the world is a happy place (well for the most part) and I am free to be me because I have accepted this part of me into my life. I believe this is what your therapist was attempting to stir in you and see where it goes . . . remember he is there not to tell you what to do, but to guide you along your road to understanding.

All this to say Sarah, I believe the comment was meant to make you introspective as to where you stand on being TG and help you to begin integrating these thoughts so you can view the world as a yes a TG person but first and foremost a person. :)

Cheers

Isha

[kimdl93]

I believe I understand the point your therapist was making. He was saying that he doesn't perceive part of his life as straight and another part as gay. It is all one. And he isn't saying your compartmentalization is a lie...it's just a different way of experiencing the world. If there is a downside, it's in the reasons you feel compelled to compartmentalize....basically fear of the reaction of others.

In that respect , it's very much like a closeted gay person...hiding a truth about themselves out of fear.

[flatlander_48]

I'm trying to figure out how we view the world through the filter of a transgender person.

S C:

To me, what that means is allowing ourselves to be aware of some things that we would not usually recognize from a male perspective. We may realize that things that we consider to be deference, from a male perspective, may actually be thinly disguised disrespect or the prejudice of assumption. Everything that humans do has an overt purpose, but many actions (and maybe all) are also a reflection of our subconscious thought process.

DeeAnn

[sometimes_miss]

hiding a truth about themselves out of fear.
And yet, fear definitely has an important place in our lives. It keeps us from doing stupid things. It's not a bad thing, it makes us careful about what we do. Bravery? Bravery is not the absence of that fear. Bravery is being afraid, but knowing that we have to do it, and doing whatever it is, anyway.

As far as the 'filter' thing, I can't imagine that concept. We see the world as we do. We cannot assign what it might be like as someone else, because we haven't lived their lives. All we can do is guess how life looks and how the world appears to work, to someone else. And we'll almost always be wrong. Our own situation is a case in point. When I was oh, about twenty, I thought I knew what life would be like as a girl. I was wrong. Thirty more years of experience, and I'm sure I was wrong, because I now know a whole lot more about a woman's experience by watching them and listening to them talk about it. And yet, in another thirty years, I'll know that I am just as wrong about it today, even though I have a whole lot more knowledge to go on. Because I don't have the experience. And that makes all the difference in the world.

[Sometimes Steffi]

About me. I'm out a lot, in private TG groups, in semi-private settings (a hotel lobby when most of the people are TG), in a semi-public setting (gay/TG bar) and in the vanilla world. However, I ty to keep everything compartmentalized. No one in my family knows (except my wife). None of my vanilla world friends know I'm TG, but I have a lot of TG friends. I believe in at least two degrees of separation. For example, I wouldn't use my wife's nail tech.

When in guy mode, the girl withing me is always peaking out and jumps out if there's something interesting to her, like a GGs shoes.

As much as I try to look the part and act them part when I'm out crossdressed, I know I don't pass to all the people all the time, but I'm much happier if they "pretend" that I pass and accept me as such.

When I first stated therapy, I was afraid of my own shadow, especially in girl mode.

[Nadya]

Hi Sarah,

I'll agree what others have said here already much more elegantly than I could. Honestly, I think the therapist is trying to get you to think about it yourself. I've been seeing a therapist (not a gender one though) about this since probably February. I just recently realized she was trying to do something similar with me and it taught me that only I could come determine who I was myself. She couldn't tell me one thing or another. Anyway, I've been listening to a lot of trangender podcasts lately while I work which has helped me a bit sort out my feelings if you are interested. <3

[flatlander_48]

R:

Yes, I think you've hit on how the process works. The human mind will put up all sorts on roadblocks and misinformation in order to maintain the status quo; in other words, in this case it would be to keep you stuck in the traditional gender paradigm when that may not be the reality for you. It has to do with maintaining ones safety by aligning with the traditional gender paradigm.

I think what the therapist has to do is help you sift through and clear away the BS in order for you to see your reality. Only then can you figure out where things sit for you and what needs to happen next. The thing is, what's important is what you understand and realize about yourself.

DeeAnn

[Sara Jessica]

The filter thing is huge. How about this?

You are part of a super-majority which benefits of having male privilege...heck, even white male privilege, and at the exact same time, you are part of a super-minority in that you are TG. You have set foot into the real world and became polar-opposite vulnerable when compared with the male privilege you are usually able to enjoy.

Yet because you are who you are, you have the benefit of seeing the world through both of these filters which co-exist both in harmony and conflict. The conflict part is easy, you talk about how it manifests itself in fear. The harmony gives you a glimpse of a third filter, female. Perhaps you are more empathetic and caring, understanding of how the female experience is different...even if only on a superficial level. But perhaps you are a better male in doing so. Not to mention the empathy which comes from being part of a minority that helps us to understand what other minorities go through.

The difference of course is that those of us who are part-time in presentation can retreat back to the other side when the going gets tough, technically when that fear takes over. Natal females cannot do such a thing. Those who are transitioning certainly cannot and other minorities can't do so as well.

The question is this, whether our retreat to the safer side allows us to hold onto that other filter so that we are better people as a result. Or do we double down on that male privilege and go into jerk-mode, whether this is an innate personality trait or a means to bury shame of some sort? I know for me the answer is the former one. I do believe I am a better person overall based on my POV. Knowing you Sarah, I get the feeling you are as well.

[flatlander_48]

You are part of a super-majority which benefits of having male privilege...heck, even white male privilege

Know that part of the problem is that MANY will deny that this exists. That's a significant hurdle to get over and is a real impediment to moving forward.

DeeAnn

[ChristinaK]

Sometimes you girls make my head hurt.

Why do things have to be so complicated these days. Enjoy who you are, the uniqueness of having our gift and being able to see both sides of the card you're dealt.

If I tried to psychoanalyse this t99 much, the fun might go away :-(

[flatlander_48]

Why do things have to be so complicated these days.

CK:

You have to understand that, for some, it is necessary to come to a deeper grasp of what is happening for them in terms of gender identity. It isn't something that most people have to deal with, so the discovery often comes as a shock. Many of us have spent decades, in some cases, in denial about this facet of our core being. However, what frequently happens is that we get to a point where our feminine side MUST surface. This flies in the face of all of the things that we have told ourselves about how things sit for us and we're caught by surprise.

Personally, I really don't invest much time thinking about why crossdressing is significant for me and what forces came together to bring this about. Even if I understood the Why, I don't think it would change anything for me. I would still be doing the same things as it feels like things are fairly stable for me. I identify as transgender because a significant part of how I think of myself leans towards the feminine and I do cross the societally accepted gender boundaries in terms of presentation in private and in public. I have mostly accepted that this is my reality. But, I have never felt that I was born in the wrong body.

That said, some people require something more specific in order to accept themselves. Therapy is often a bridge to that information and acceptance. Also, note that for some, crossdressing is just a step along the path and not a destination. They are often the people who need to dress 24/7 or even to transition.

DeeAnn

[Tracii G]

Once I figured out what the word transgender meant I knew thats what I was.It explained everything I was going thru.
No conflict, no inner demons,no mind bending search to find out why am I like this I just am.
One friend asked are you going to see a therapist to figure it all out? You know to understand it.
I said why would I do that? I understand it perfectly right now.
I realize some have a hard time and need help so they should see a therapist.

[Sara Jessica]

Know that part of the problem is that MANY will deny that this exists. That's a significant hurdle to get over and is a real impediment to moving forward.

DeeAnn

You are so right DeeAnn. I think it speaks to whether one comes across with a feminine spirit that shines through (no matter how we present) versus coming across as a typical male, albeit a male in a dress.

In other words, it may be virtually impossible to shake off the male privilege that is virtually automatically conferred on many of us but what we do with it is entirely up to us.

[Jennifer in CO]

Can I throw out a thought for consideration. "Trans" defined is movement. Trans-gender, Trans-portation, Trans Siberian Orchestra; its all movement across something. Movement indicates (in most cases) a starting and stopping point is inevitable. Trans gender is the act of moving from one gender to the other. If you find your "happy place" along the way and stop, you are no longer trans-gender (but are hopefully happy).
Thankfully, I don't think anyone has come up with a "label" for all the stopping points along the path, the existing labels we have already (T, CD, TG, NoTS, TS) are quite sufficient. Unfortunately, we are a people and a society that is consumed with "labeling". Hence way to many times someone has to call something "something" in order to feel comfortable about it. As an example, look at ADD/ADHD. We used to call it an over active kid or un-focused, now it has a label and is "treated".

So, what is your "treatment" for our "labels"? Having been on both sides of the fence I never considered the trip between as as anything more than just a means to an end. Having come back most of the way, I am content to label where I am along the path as my "happy place" and leave it there...

[Pat]

"Trans" defined is movement.

Not to get too pedantic, but this is what's called "folk etymology." Trans has a meaning in latin, roughly "beyond," "on the other side of," or "through" It's generally translated (no movement implied) as "cross." as in Transvestite = Crossdresser. Your meditation on people's journey through gender are no less valid, I'm just saying it's founded on inspiration, not linguistics. ;) Sorry. Guess I'm in a mood...

As to labels, they're important. You can't discuss something if you don't have the vocabulary for it. As we often see in the TG community disagreement on terms leads to miscommunication. The recurring argument about whether "Transvestite" is more or less demeaning than "Crossdresser" springs to mind. I was once on a project that was developing assistive technology for dyslexics. I was doing some research to see if dyslexia only exists in alphabetic languages or if it also exists in pictographic languages, so I was talking to a gentleman who went off on me -- "You Americans!" he fumed "You always look for excuses! Yes, we have a word for dyslexic -- we call those people 'stupid'!" The point (to me) is that if we stick with the term "stupid" we can't help those people. If we create the term "dyslexic" which focuses our attention to specific features we can. Before there was "ADD" we had over-active kids. Now we have a term that lets us focus in on the mechanisms that present as over-activity and help them.

I know too much rigor and too many labels are frustrating. When they get too much, I put on my pink wig. ;)

[desertrider]

Blue, lol! Had some serious depression a while back, and went thru a lot of therapists. Finally found one I thought was good, went for about a year. For whatever reason, at that point my wife went once. After about 5 min, it disintegrated into something that felt like man-bashing to me (I don't [fill-in-the-blank with an assortment of things], etc.), and my wife had very little, if anything to do with it. my point is, therapists are people; this one was great for depression, but if she had become a marriage counselor, could have single-handedly spiked the divorce rate in my town. Could be yours isn't ideal for cd/ts issues, or it was just an offhand comment....ive had similar trouble finding a decent accountant.such is life...

[Wandacdmn]

I have seen a therapist in my past and have mentioned my desire to dress. He did not even make an issue out of it. I thought I was opening a big can of worms and would be explaining this until I was blue in the face - but it was dealt with as a common desire. It felt good.

[Sarah Doepner]

Thanks for all the contributions, observations and opinions. I'm on vacation now and have my next visit with the therapist a few days after I get home. That will give me some time to go over all this and a few other things before that appointment. I hope he doesn't charge more since he's dealing with a large group now! Oh My!

[pamela7]

i'll throw in an observation, as a therapist, and as a CD'er, who's spent the last 6 months analysing!

The range of human archetypes is reflected in nature - human dogs, human cats, sheep, human PLANTS, human rock beings (trolls) etc.

There are many plant species who exhibit both sexes on the same plant ... CD'ers might often be "Ents" or "Entwives" in the tolkien mythology.

Perhaps an idle curiosity, but looking at my sweetcorn growing in the garden, each plant clearly has both sexes on one, as do the courgettes (zuccini).