Do CD's really get to Appreciate "What Women Go Through'?

[Sarasometimes]

The other day a guy at work made a comment that he couldn't understand why his wife complains about all the effort she puts in to look good. He sounded really perplexed. Some of the other guys agreed, some said nothing as I did.
Just wondering what do you think you have a better appreciation for that you learned from cross-dressing? Anyone that sort of surprised you? I will add mine soon. Have you learned of some advantage women have that you didn't realize until you cross-dressed?

[Amanda M]

Not sure about advantage. What I have learned is that when we are going out somewhere special, she really takes time to look her very best -for her, and for me. At our age, she is not "on the pull". She simply wamts to look elegant and beautiful, and trust me, the end result is more than worth the time it takes.

OK, so I am a crossdresser. One of my main foundational thoughts is this. I will NOT be seen en femme in less than the best I can be in terms of style and presentation. If I am to present as a female, that is what I shall do. No beard stubble, chest hair, leg hair and so on. Anything less would for me, be insulting to the GGs we seek to emulate.

That said, this is only my view as it affects ME. If wou wish to present with leg hair, a beard or whatever, I will not criticise you. That is your choice, so feel happy. It is not mine.

[AllieSF]

When it comes to getting ready to go out, purchasing clothes that actually work for our own bodies, yes, we can appreciate what a GG goes through. From there on it gets a little less likely that we really will appreciate all those other things that they go through unless we are out there as a woman 24/7, or at least a lot of the time.

[Amy Fakley]

Well ... "what women go through", is probably a hot button phrase.

There is a whole universe of "authentic female experience", that I cannot ever truly know. By the same token, no GG will ever understand "what a male-to-female transgender goes through".

We're similar, but completely different beasts. First cousins, maybe. There's a lot of common ground for sure.

Do I understand why it can take do long to get ready? UH ... YES! :-) it takes me upwards of 2 hours, if I'm doing it right, and I don't even have real hair to play with! On the other hand, a g GG doesn't have to deal with facial shaving, and trying to do beard cover without looking like a Vegas show girl at the supermarket, lol.

[reb.femme]

...Have you learned of some advantage women have that you didn't realize until you cross-dressed?

My wife doesn't have to use makeup to look feminine, while I have to use it by the bucket load, just to give me a fighting chance of vaguely passing. :heehee:

Rebecca

[~Joanne~]

I think it actually takes a lot more work for Us to get ready than it does the average GG. We have to do a lot more cover up than they do and from the looks of today's average woman, they don't do all that much to actually take too long. Going out for an evening I can see it and yes, I have become a lot more patient with my SO taking a while to get ready because I know what all goes into it from CDing.

[PaulaQ]

Presentation is such a small part of what women go through in this world of ours. Yes, it's the part y'all care about, but there is so much more to it.

[Krisi]

If I were to think about "what women go through", I would start with that once a month thing. Being pregnant and having a baby doesn't sound like a piece of cake to me. In most cases, women's career opportunities are limited compared to men's. Then there's that need to look good while it's fine for a man to look like a slob.

It's not just about putting on makeup.

[Tristessa]

I do think that going out dressed can help us experience shedding our male privilege and being related to as "less than" or even objectified, as so many women are. But then, we can just shed the clothes and recapture that privilege, so I don't think we experience the chronic sense of frustration and hopelessness that a woman experiences living in a patriarchal world.

As for advantages to CD'ing, I have found that, when others relate to me as a woman, they are softer, less combative, and more willing to talk things out. Some of that could be what I project en femme vs. en drab, though.

[kimdl93]

I think we gain a greater appreciation of the body issues and societal standards women are unfairly measured against. When on gains that perspective, it's really heart breaking to think of the struggles and sadness imposed by unrealistic expectations.

[Samantha2015]

I do appreciate what a pain in the butt it is to try and look good.
Real women who work in offices or any place where their appearance is important
have to deal with it every day.
I only play with it a couple weekends a month. They have my respect for sure.
I do think it's harder for us, like others have said we have a lot of stuff to cover up
that real women don't. But it still requires much more effort than being a dude.

[irene9999]

I can definitely appreciate the effort women go through to look their best, picking the best outfit and working on your makeup really can be a lot of work but the result can be worth it. The only "advantage" I see women having as experienced by CDing is that women can improve on their looks by accentuating features through makeup and clothes, where as a guy you're much more limited in what you can do to look good

[Kate Simmons]

The bottom line then way I see it is that maintaining looking nice takes a lot of work, plain and simple. :)

[flatlander_48]

As far as dressing goes, that part didn't surprise me. I grew up not only with my mother, but also my grandmother and aunt. My first wife did Mary Kay for several years, but I do wish I had paid better attention.

Our first child was our daughter and about 6 years later our son was born. In total, I've spent a lot of time around the women in my family; nearly all of them were very aware of how society devalued them.

The key thing for me is how pervasive the notion of sexism is. I do think about this and although I often fail miserably, I am better than I used to be and sometimes I even get it right. The important thing is to understand how sexism is a drain on the lives of women and that we always have a choice not to buy into the idea.

DeeAnn

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Sara, Being in this program gives me a real appreciation for the feminine side of life.:hugs:

[Kelsey21]

If I were to think about "what women go through", I would start with that once a month thing. Being pregnant and having a baby doesn't sound like a piece of cake to me. In most cases, women's career opportunities are limited compared to men's. Then there's that need to look good while it's fine for a man to look like a slob.

It's not just about putting on makeup.
All of this and then some......all I'll say is that if men had babies, there wouldn't be any :)

[Robin414]

I think some of us do, to the point if we were/could become 'full on dudes' again we could be the ultimate players, but having been there/done that I can't imagine any of us would, having a complete appreciation and respect for the feminine condition ourselves! Just my thoughts☺

[AbigailJordan]

Yes, I think we appreciate the effort that our SO's put in to getting ready to go out a little more than a none dressing guy would. Obviously there are differences.. the amount of overall shaving/waxing that needs doing (I'm thinking chest and arms as well as the legs.. something most women don't have an issue with).

I think we are far more likely to be able to help our SO put together an outfit and be patient if things aren't perfect.. rather than the whole "oh just pick an outfit already!!".

And I think most of us are far more understanding when our SO sees that gorgeous pair of shoes that she just HAS to have.. we've all spotted clothes.. or shoes that have made us feel that tingle of need in us, so we can understand the need without getting worked up over the price etc.

So yes.. I think we are more likely to be understanding of a womans efforts to look good.. but as many have said, that is only a small part of the difference, we can never really go through the true trials of female life.. some might say unfortunately.

[Tracii G]

I have a great appreciation of what they go thru not only in the realm of make up and trying to look their best also the way men objectify them.
By objectify I mean the cat calls and hey baby looking good comments that can be quite unnerving at times when it happens to me.
Of course guys that do that to me need glasses.

[Stephanie47]

I read the comments posted above. I'm wondering for whom the wife is trying to look good for? Is it for her husband? Is it to impress other women? Is it to hide some perceived imperfections? When my wife and I go out to be among others it really depends who the others are. My wife does not have to dress for me. She knows that. Yes, we are in the senior category now. That does not mean we are "dead." It just means we accept each other for who we are. So, when we are going to a social function, such as a wedding, she is dressing for others.

Now, if you ask me to backtrack several decades or more, she did spend a lot of time preening herself to impress me. I think she and most women have been conditioned to doll themselves up, and, that takes a lot of time. A lot of time mentally..planning. And, a lot of time doing the actual preening. Yes, there is an acknowledgement and appreciation for her efforts.

However, if you come to our home the picture that is prominently displayed in our living room is of her and I. She is leaning against my first car next to me. She is wearing really short shorts and a Superman tee shirt and barefooted. It is my favorite picture. At that stage in life makeup would have been a waste of time and only hid her natural beauty.

[Claire Cook]

Sara,

It started for me as, yes, all of the effort that goes into trying to "look good". But now it's not so much about "the look" and what goes into achieving it. What I'm learning is how wonderful it is to be accepted as a woman, or at least a sort of reasonable facsimile of same, by other women -- and to learn to see life through their eyes. Sharing thoughts and talk with them is really where it seems to be for me. Not what they go through to look good -- more what they have to deal with in everyday life.

Hugs,

Claire

[Marcelle]

Hi Sara,

In response to your questions. I think those who CD can gain an understanding of what women go through from a superficial (on the surface perspective). Specifically, what women go through to get ready, make-up, hair/wig, clothing choice all in an effort to look as good as one wishes to. Now for those who go out in public, other insight might be gained by as Tracii indicated . . . objectified by the odd guy or two who processes "woman" and proceeds to leer, stare, cat-call or whatever. You may also gain an appreciation of just going about your day and dealing with things like manipulating a purse and parcels while trying to open a door, walking in heels, holding your skirt down during a particularly windy day. However, these are all superficial abstracts of dressing and presenting. IMHO this is akin to a friend of mine who for a historical documentary (he is an actor), volunteered to live a week as a Roman soldier. This included dressing in typical historical clothing and armour, living rough in the wilds, eating as the soldiers did, no modern day conveniences whatsoever. He was able to get an appreciation of what it meant to dress, live and eat like a Roman soldier, but not a true appreciation of what it really meant to be a Roman soldier because he was not socialized as such from birth (i.e., citizen of the empire, schooling, military service, war, battles and whatnot).

So while a CDer can gain appreciation on a surface level, they will not be able to truly understand what it means to be a woman because they lack early socialization as such. Now before anyone goes off on a tangent, I am responding to the OPs question "Do CDs really get to appreciate" and we know it will be different for those who meander further right of CD. :)

Cheers

Isha

[CarlaWestin]

I'm always looking very close at women's makeup and I'm amazed at the precision they can apply it with. Sometimes it's just pure artistry and I'm envious of the canvas they get to start with. I guess the obvious advantage is that they're female to begin with. Curves generally in the right place and bone structure more feminine. Sometimes when I look at video it looks like a large primate got into my Carla closet.

[Krisi]

When I read this thread and many like it, I have to wonder what sort of women people are looking at. Many, many women wear little or no makeup to work. Factory workers, postal carriers, warehouse workers, and many times, housewives (home makers). They may get "dolled up" once a week to go out but that's it. And, for whatever reason, many women have given up (or never had) the "hot chick" look.

Being a woman is far more than putting on makeup.

[Sarasometimes]

This is where I was going with this thread. Things I have learned about this subject from CDing that were sort of expected are; makeup, even if you are good at it takes time to both put on and remove not to mention the time to buy it, keeping your brushes clean, most high heels do hurt to walk in for any real length of time, good looking hair is time consuming (I really love this part though).
One's that were a bit unexpected; being vulnerable when moving about and the need to be aware of who and what is around you, couple this with shoes and an outfit that limits your movements, the sheer number of items one has to decide to have on/with you (control brief, tights, skirt, shoes or boots, bra, top, shawl/sweater, earrings, bracelets/necklaces/rings, handbag, purse then see above makeup...
One positive I didn't expect to discover and one I now do even in drab are the little pleasant side comments made to strangers like compliments and other pleasantries along with smiling more! These really do make life more upbeat!

[Sarah-RT]

If nothing else the one thing that crossdressing gives us is an appreciation of the superficial challenges women can go through which allows us to support our SO's that much better, to use the phrase "walking a mile in her shoes"

I was telling a GG friend about my day out at LGBT pride last month and the challenges I had that I'd have never thought of such as wind affecting your wig and blowing it in your face, the risk that rain will wash your makeup off, where do you put your bag when in a toilet cubicle etc, how sore your feet get or how exposed your feet feel with flats on etc etc which she thought was hilarious and said "the struggle is real"

Sarah x

[Lee Andrews]

I do appreciate what ladies go through to a very small degree.
I never ask the age old question "what's taking you so long?" Or the "why did you buy that?" questions. Because I know those answers. Any of the other experiences are foreign to me. My SO has said I get to experience the fun side of being a girl and I think she is right.

[Alice Torn]

The sheer variety that GG's have to decide on. Yes, Sarahsometimes, the little pleasant comments, and smiling they do. I have a hard time smiling much, in theses very troubles times. It is not easy becoming cheery, positive, and smiley these days,with all the bad news heaped on us daily. somehow, GG's have an easier time being smiley, humorous, and positive. And, so social!! i have almost no human friends, and am shut down socially, a loner. Very few women are loners. I could never be so social, and talkative, and smiley, often laughing, and giggling, and social. No matter how well i dress up.

[Jennifer0874]

I guess from a what it takes to get ready stand point yes. But overall not really. I can sympathize with a woman, but not truly know what it is like to be a woman.

I've also had some interaction with men while dressed that make me feel sad what some women have to go through on a daily basis, while I can just change my clothes and no one would look at me twice.
A couple of times while dressed at a gay bar I have had to fend off an aggressive male suitor. Just the fact they don't go away after you say no is a lot to deal with. I've had a man just grind up against me on a dance floor. Not fun. I also used to go to a chat room to chat with other CD/TV/TS and there were always disrespectful guys in there treating us as sex objects.

I really can't imagine what it is like to have to worry about that 24/7 365.

[Angie G]

GG.s go through way more then making there faces look beautiful or are dress to the t's. I know this and really do appreciate all my wife go's through.:hugs:
Angie

[JamieG]

I agree with many of the previous posters, we have the opportunity to have a little more insight than other GMs, but I've seen plenty of posts on this site that demonstrate that we can be just as clueless about women as any other man. The vulnerability thing is one thing though that really left a mark on me. My first night outside a safe space en femme was a Halloween night over ten years ago. I dressed as Christina Aguilerra and my wife was driving us to a friend's party. At a stoplight, a car full of guys pulled up next to us and they started catcalling us. I felt very unsafe and felt thought makes them think they can treat women this way? It upset me a great deal.

We have the luxury of being able to take off our female trappings and become guys anytime we are faced with the downsides of being a woman in this society. GGs cannot, so I don't think CDs can ever truly understand them.

[Tina_gm]

I would imagine that just being more fem than most guys will allow us a greater appreciation of a sorts. Then add in dressing, especially to be out in public. But, then again, most CDers will have to add either more make up, body form modifications, wigs etc etc. So, its not exactly the same, although similar. Also, for most CDers, it is not an every day part of the day in the am to apply make up, do our hair etc etc. My wife does not particularly enjoy that part of her day. We on the other hand tend to, unless we are very frequent dressers, 24/7 type, but more commonly for CDers it is a special fun occasion. Half the fun is in doing ourselves up.

Do women understand and appreciate men's grooming? the daily scrape of the face, which can get real old in a hurry. (they generally do not shave their legs and whatever else every single day.) I am a head shaver. I do it because it looks better than attempting to have hair with a serious receding hairline, kinda makes me look 3 stooges like if I attempt hair. I have a small round head which makes a shaved head look decent. But.... I hate doing it. Irritating as all hell. I dread it.

Nose hair, ear hair.... No fun with any of that either. For those who work outside on a regular basis, In the summer, massively sweaty or dirty, and uncomfortably hot, on a regular day to day basis. I don't know if any of us, CD's or cis gender people can ever get a true appreciation or understanding of what anyone else goes through, although we can empathize quite a bit.

[ReineD]

The other day a guy at work made a comment that he couldn't understand why his wife complains about all the effort she puts in to look good. He sounded really perplexed.

This is what I don't understand. If a woman feels that putting on makeup is bothersome, styling her hair is time-consuming, and wearing some items of clothing is uncomfortable, then why on earth does she do it and then complain about it? lol

We all make choices in life. When I was a young woman, I wanted to be appealing in a certain way and because of this I WANTED to wear the makeup, the four inch heels, the sexy clothes (when indicated), etc. It was nothing to complain about, because it was MY choice. And I only went through all that trouble when I was going out, not on a daily basis to go to work or hang out on the weekend. And now my makeup is minimal (it takes 5 minutes to put it on when I choose to wear it), the shoes I wear every day are comfortable and when I wear heels, I choose to wear shoes that are just as stylish as my older 4" pumps but they are now a more manageable 2", I have chosen a hair style that is extremely easy to style (long and straight ... no more perms and cuts that are difficult to maintain), and I wear clothing that is comfortable even when it is a skirt or a dress. I do not wear girdles or other shapewear, I do not polish my nails except for my toe nails twice per summer, it take me 5 minutes to shave my legs when I shower.. If I am going someplace special and I do want to polish my finger nails, it is no big deal because again, it is MY choice and it happens rarely.

I see all manner of women at work, in town, and on campus here. They all look very nice in my eyes but they also look natural. They don't have on elaborate makeup, tight and uncomfortable clothing, high heels that pinch, long polished nails, elaborate hair styles, etc. When I go out in the evenings, I see some women who have a bit more makeup on and higher heels but they certainly don't look as if they've spent hours agonizing in their bathrooms to get ready and certainly most women look as they do during the daytime.

We should take a poll from all the GGs who participate here. How much time do they spend getting ready in the course of their daily lives.

So, what's all this "effort" that you speak of?

There may well be a small percentage of women who do wear the girdles and the shapewear daily, or they fiddle with their hair every morning for 30 minutes and add another 30 minutes for makeup, plus another 30 for nails, etc, but I rather think these women are not the norm ... not when you look at all the women you pass by on the street.

Or am I missing something. :p

[Helen 2]

Well, the very few times my wife and I have been out with me as Helen, it took her one hour to get ready and it took me two, which prompted her to blurt that 'if it took two hours to get ready every time she wanted to go out looking glam, she would not do it, so...I vote for 'it's harder for us to look pretty than it is for them' -the GG's, I mean..
;o)

[Jeninus]

When considering "what women go through" I think of more than clothing and makeup. I also think of health issues that we either don't, or only rarely have to face. Last week my wife underwent a lumpectomy. It was the return of breast cancer after 10 years (the other required mastectomy, chemo and radiation). At the same time I felt a lump in my right breast and had a mammogram the day after her surgery. A mammogram is something most adult women undergo every one or two years...and take it from me, it is damned uncomfortable! That was followed by a biopsy, and that still aches. Then there's the stirrups. This is a side of womanhood, along with the monthlies, that makes being a girl not so much fun. As CD/TGs, we get to skim the fun part, I suppose.