One step foward and then confused again!

[Teresa]

Thursday morning due to a change in my wife's plans I found I had most of the day to dress. I knew I had some jobs to do around the house and garden so I kept things simple and everyday in a lightweight pale blue v-neck jumper and navy skirt also opted for a comfortable pair of heels, no makeup or wig only lipstick and small chain necklace and forms.
I did my normal cleaning in the house then realised I hadn't watered all my large flower pots full of summer display flowers and they're spread all over the garden, the ones at far end being in full view of my neighbour's upstairs windows ! I started with the ones near the house and was about to cover up in drab to make my way to the distant pots, I just felt so comfortable no thoughts about doing anything out of the ordinary but tried not to click clack too much in my heels while carrying a two gallon watering can in each hand on the garden path . The neighbour's windows on one side are almost obscured by trees but on the otherside most of their first floor windows are visible. I just carried on as if it were a normal everyday occurrence for a guy to be wearing stockings with heels, a skirt and jumper with a little lipstick watering the flower pots.
Then the confusion set in, I've almost pleaded with my wife to let me be more open with my dressing, wanting to be a passable woman if possible and knowing to achieve it I would have to accept wearing a wig and makeup otherwise I'm likely to make a fool of myself and yet here I am comfortably going about my jobs dressed as a guy in a dress knowing there's a 50/50 chance of being seen by neighbours. I know I wouldn't do this if I felt I looked stupid ( which possibly I do !) so is it because I feel female enough to be comfortable in how I look ? Somehow I feel if I'd convinced myself that I should have only ventured out with full makeup and wig that I would have felt more stupid .

I really am confused by all this, what does my crossdressing mean to me ?

[Belle Cri]

I do the same thing. I just steel myself in the garden, and let them gawk. It's my house, my garden. If they do not like what they see, do not look. I do not stand tippy toe at my neighbors windows to monitor their activity. It's not easy, but for me it is absolutely necessary to innoculate myself in smaller, every day doses so getting slammed on the street does not ruin my day or my life because no one has the right to do that to me, least of all myself for reacting that way other people's reactions. It is very hard for me to let go and ignore. I just keep pushing one little bit more each time and dare the world to tell me no. I will probably get slapped down a lot. Guess what, I have a bad habit of coming back. So will you. Now, what are you growing?

[Tina_gm]

You are actually touching on something I see what my wife touches on, sorta. Often she has said to me that I make too big of a deal about it all. What is fem, what isn't. Getting caught up about how much dressing and how it effects me....(two and a half years of convos) I am referring to, not any one single one. But, you are sort of over thinking it. You are still you, and deep down, just being comfortable, not worrying about how much of a presentation. So, what if you were fully made up, wig and all, and your neighbor sees you?? How much of a difference do you think it is really going to make for them to see you half dressed or fully dressed??

[ReineD]

I think your desire to dress exceeds any desire you may have had to not have people know that you dress, and so you rationalize a non-outcome to going out in your backyard (and in your town) dressed.

That said, you will likely not experience any direct negative outcomes with your neighbors or the strangers in your town who see you dressed. People whose lives you do not impact tend to keep their opinions to themselves even though they will think of you differently than they have … (they will not, however, begin to think of you as a female just because you wear a skirt).

You might experience a negative outcome with your wife though, should the neighbors ask her why you were watering plants dressed in a skirt. She likely wants her acquaintances to not think of you, (or you and she as a couple), as being odd.

The bottom line is that you must decide how much tension you are willing to experience with your wife over this.

Good luck!

[Rachelakld]

I think we get less fussy as we age.
I've been shopping in my girls Nike tights, tops & bra, no wig or make up.
When I swim at the public pools, I've no make up on going in, swimming or on the way out again.
I swim in a one piece, with breast forms (although I'm getting to a stage where I almost can't be bothered with that either) - pictures on my blog site

[pamela7]

Teresa,

I know we wear the dresses, but there comes a time to "man up", take the lead and tell your good wife what is what and that you're going to be "out" and she better take it like a woman! Your pain and agonies here make me want to explode sometimes. Your heart aches to be out, to dress, so do it!!!!

[Tina_gm]

Pamela, perhaps because your wife is so much on the acceptance side, it is hard to imagine what Teresa goes through. In a way it is good advice you give, but perhaps needs to be done carefully and with as much tact as can be mustered. Teresa made many mistakes as most of us have in having our wives not know about our CDing. I have always believed too that because of that, we who do not or did not tell need to own some of the problems that come along with wives having difficulties about it. Teresa, like me and many others changed the rules and hid things in the contract. At some point, when we the CDer has made many sacrifices so that our CDing will not financially or socially impact our wives, we should be able to have some time and place to express ourselves. That can be a very tricky thing to do though.

[Alice_2014_B]

Seems like its a case of being "secure" at home and going out in public.
You appear very confident in your Avatar picture.
:)

[Teresa]

Gendermutt,
That pretty well sums it up although I may end up doing what Pamela says out of desperation !
I now have an appointment for my first gender counselling so I'll try not to upset things because I don't know what lies beyond the therapy !

Alice_2014_B,
PaulaQ has just posted about Autogynerphilia , at the time I felt I fitted in with the translation because I would prefer to look like my avatar rather the guy hidden beneath !
It appears Blanchard got too much wrong to be considered plausable but he did get the ball rolling for others to consider his ideas and rethink the TS/TG ideology !

[Barbara Black]

I tend to be like Belle. I figure it's my back yard, and I'm much more likely to wear my skirts around without hiding behind bushes. But I don't go and present myself to them either, I tend to stay in place unless there's a real need to get up and walk around. I think wearing my forms under a T-shirt is as close as I've come to just coming out and saying something about being a crossdresser.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Teresa, Your whole life seems to be between a rock and a hard place.:daydreaming:

I hope that things will someday change for the better for you..:hugs:

[Tina_gm]

Gendermutt,
That pretty well sums it up although I may end up doing what Pamela says out of desperation !
I now have an appointment for my first gender counselling so I'll try not to upset things because I don't know what lies beyond the therapy !I don't think there needs to be desperation. I do agree that you can only do so much, and once you satisfy that your CDing/fem expression is not impacting on your wife financially or socially, then you can say this IS what I will be doing with my life on my time, that does not directly impact you. Hopefully it would not ever come down to that, but I guess in your situation it may. All I can say is that I have noticed that the more I own my CDing, the better my wife's reaction to it overall is. I have accepted that she will never like it or want to be part of it. But, as what I say about not impacting her financially or socially, and that I do not dress in her presence, she gives me as much time as I want to dress. She will and has offered me time to dress if I have not been able to do so much. I don't ask, don't need to.

As far as counseling goes, do not look for it to be a magic pill. Also, hopefully you find one that is not set on a direction to TS/transitioning. Most are good, but there are some who just seem to push people in that direction. I was lucky to have found one that never pushed that on me. In fact, he was almost the opposite, and I went to a very qualified gender therapist.

[TrishaTX]

It sounds like a tough situation. I love my wife to death. When you love someone that much you need to take their feelings into account. As most of us do.....I have shame about what I do crossdressing. It is what it is....it feels great I love to do it and most of all I love the process. To think when I wake up that today is the day I can dress...excites me like most of you I am sure...but it does not always work out. She does not like the wig and make up and some of that is on me because I wasn't honest when we got together. I should have been (easy to say when your older )...I do love the process...the me getting ready and for me this is sexual , so I like to take my time and enjoy it. So tough to get it right, and to know when it is right to do...still working on it , as I suspect most of you girls are too.

Teresa keep plugging away and hopefully you and her find your ground. I am hopeful I will too. Be strong

[Leslie Langford]

Teresa, it sounds to me as if the kettle is starting to boil over, and it is becoming increasingly difficult to keep a lid on the woman within. Given your challenging marital circumstances (which closely mirror mine), you have my sympathy and I totally "get" it...:hugs:

[ReineD]

Autogynerphilia , at the time I felt I fitted in with the translation because I would prefer to look like my avatar rather the guy hidden beneath !
It appears Blanchard got too much wrong to be considered plausable but he did get the ball rolling for others to consider his ideas and rethink the TS/TG ideology !

Blanchard got it wrong when he theorized that the motive for female-attracted TSs to transition is autogynephilia.

He did, however, get it right when coining a term for the condition experienced by many CDers in this forum and elsewhere in the community, which is the (sexual) love of oneself as a woman. Auto-gyne-philia describes this accurately. Blanchard did not invent this phenomenon, he simply came up with a term for something that is experienced by any male for whom the dressing is sexual.

And the idea that cis-women who are sexually aroused are autogynephilic is hogwash. Are cis-men who are aroused autoandrophylic? lol. It's not the same thing at all. Cis-people are aroused by the need to have sex, not at the imagined thought of themselves as their own gender.

Back to your issue in this thread, how do you feel about the possibility that a neighbor will make a comment to your wife about seeing you in the garden wearing a skirt? Are you prepared for this conversation?

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

Teresa,

Per your OP, I would agree with others that you comfort with dressing in an around you house represents a great deal of self acceptance with your dressing that has grown over the years. Extending that self confidence to the outside world may still take some time, hence your feelings of confusion.

In regards to being more direct with your wife, I believe it will all come down to the balance between your feelings for your wife against your need to dress. You've mentioned several time about your lack of physical intimacy, but what about your emotional intimacy? Is there any of that left? Believe me I'm the last person to council for separation strictly on the basis of wardrobe choices, but if you are growing apart in other aspects of your relationship then some reassessment as guided by your therapist may be in order. I take no pleasure in giving that bit of advice, but an unhappy marriage is a great burden to ask of anyone.

I feel much of your struggle as one whose wife is also non-accepting.

Hugs,
Bridget

[Teresa]

Reine,
Yes I do know the full translation of AGP and the way Blanchard took the term on board to explain his ideas !

I don't think my neighbours would drop that into a conversation with my wife, we all get on fairly well but rarely see each other to talk to for months, besides I'm not the only CDer who knows what goes on behind their closed doors ?

[PaulaQ]

And the idea that cis-women who are sexually aroused are autogynephilic is hogwash. Are cis-men who are aroused autoandrophylic? lol. It's not the same thing at all. Cis-people are aroused by the need to have sex, not at the imagined thought of themselves as their own gender.

Here's a study from 2009 that says otherwise. It used essentially the same criteria and questions as Blanchard, but used a control group who shouldn't suffer from AGP.

Autogynephilia in women.
Moser C1.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19591032

But look - cis women often reported the exact same feelings of AGP.

This suggests that AGP isn't really a distinguishing characteristic of MtF trans. This arm waving about sexualizing cross gender expression is foolishness - it's meaningless.

Teresa, your increased comfort with dressing and your need to do it is almost certainly driven by your increasing gender dysphoria. The good stuff you feel when dressed isn't the issue. It's the bad stuff you feel when you aren't that really matters here.

[pamela7]

Teresa, your increased comfort with dressing and your need to do it is almost certainly driven by your increasing gender dysphoria. The good stuff you feel when dressed isn't the issue. It's the bad stuff you feel when you aren't that really matters here.

And that is what scares me too.

[Marcelle]

Hi Teresa,

I have to admit I had to read your post a few times to get to the crux of what you were asking and after dissecting your comments, I garner your main question was "Why if you have always maintained to your wife you wanted to be more out in public fully femme (wig, make-up) are you all of sudden just comfortable as a man wearing a dress doing things around the yard?" To be honest, I had struggled with that one for some time until I came to accept myself as gender fluid. On those days I identify as a woman and I am going into the public venue I will do the whole make-up thing much the same way my wife will when she goes in public (albeit she has to use far less make-up than I :)). However, if I am at home (not planning on going anywhere) and I have things to do around the yard, I will do so in female clothing and depending on the energy level required wig or sans wig. For example, last weekend I identified female so for my morning run with my dogs, I dressed in female running attire, no wig, no make-up (close shaver though) and a ball cap. Afterwards I cleared brush dressed in female clothing again no wig, no make-up and the same ratty ball cap.

So for me the concept of identifying as a woman is not about the make-up or for that matter the clothes, it is about being and aligning my presentation to correspond to the gender of choice. So while I may use full on make-up in public it is because I want to present nicely and to be honest put people in a comfort zone when seeing me. When there is no requirement to do so, I prefer to allow the woman beneath just bubble to the surface in whatever guise she chooses.

Cheers

Isha

[Teresa]

Isha,
Yes that's about it but I guess , it's the point I made with you before that it's far easier to accept being gender fluid when you have a partner's support ! I guess I'm still fighting it on several fronts, one of them being to try and see it from my wife's point of view !

As for my thread yes it has left me confused, what I want from my CDing and how I want to present myself to be comfortable with it ! Maybe I would or should go with the flow as other members say but then in a DADT situation someone is going to be hurt !

I do take the point about Paula's comment and after checking the link it's pretty obvious that women do have a version of AGP ! Why shouldn't they men and women have many similarities lets face the media preys very much on vanities possibly far more women than men . Some women must look in the mirror when really done up and have some erotic thoughts about themselves , I don't think either gender is immune to that one !

[Angela Marie]

My wife is supportive with my dressing and understands the need. However she is very concerned about our neighbors who we see daily and are friendly with glimpsing me in femme attire. I love my wife and must take her feelings into account. While I would like to present as more femme at home a balance must be reached. Life and relationships are always a compromise.

[ReineD]

Reine,
I don't think my neighbours would drop that into a conversation with my wife, we all get on fairly well but rarely see each other to talk to for months,

Then you don't really have anything to worry about. You dressed while your wife was away (a lot of members here are in DADT arrangements as well), and if the neighbors see, they will keep it to themselves. So why are you confused? If you don't speak to your neighbors for months on end and they are mere acquaintances, what does it matter if they do see you dressed?


However, if I am at home (not planning on going anywhere) and I have things to do around the yard, I will do so in female clothing and depending on the energy level required wig or sans wig.

My SO does the same thing, on the rare occasions she does dress at home. She doesn't bother with wig and makeup. She just feels comfortable wearing the clothes.

[Karen RHT]

Your original post really strikes a cord with me Teresa. Although not identical, we do share some similar thoughts and characteristics. I too dress frequently without makeup and wig inside our home. My wife is fine with that, and has even bought some of my skirts, tops, dresses, and accessories. Doing so represents a huge change in thinking for her. She still isn't comfortable however, with the idea of me being seen outside our home. Like yourself, I'm quite comfortable going about the day in a skirt or dress. So comfortable in fact, I'll also make brief trips out into our backyard without concern for what the neighbours might see or think. I will check for neighbour activity before I go out, as I don't want to totally disrespect her wishes. Nor do I wish to shock, challenge, or make a statement. I simply want to go about my business without changing my clothes.

I would prefer not to present myself as a "guy in a dress." Rather, I would much prefer to find the perfect wig for me, and skillfully apply makeup so that I could make the best possible presentation. My wife isn't comfortable with me doing that, which is where my internal conflict begins. My plan is to patiently continue to be open and honest with her, in anticipation she will continue to become more accepting of my wish to see just how good of a presentation I can put together.

As to your "what does being a crossdresser mean to me" question, I'm not qualified to give you a definitive answer. To me it's an adventure, that despite it's many challenges, I'm enjoying.


Karen

[ReineD]

it's pretty obvious that women do have a version of AGP ! ... Some women must look in the mirror when really done up and have some erotic thoughts about themselves

Oops, I missed this before.

Sorry Teresa but you're dead wrong. If you were to go into the FAB section and propose this to the GGs there, they'd laugh you out of the place.

Simply put, no we are not aroused by the thought of being our own gender. We are aroused when we need sex. Are you aroused by the thought of being male? Is your son aroused by the thought of being male? How about your daughter-in-law or your wife ... are they aroused by the thought of being female? What about all the other cis-gender people in the world. A condition that exists among female-attracted MtF CDers (sexual arousal over having a female body and possibly having sex with a male) simply cannot be translated to people who don't experience this condition. Sorry. Maybe this is difficult for some of you to understand.

If you do want to read more about Moser's theory, here's the original article with the raw data at the bottom of the page. He asked 29 (TWENTY-NINE!) women the same 9 questions that Blanchard asked 212 MtFs. The summary of all Moser's 261 responses: There were 25 "frequently" (9%)! This is followed by 104 "never", 125 "occasionally", and 7 non-answers. If you took a group of CDers for whom this is sexual, would there only be 9% "frequently" answers? I doubt it. The other thing to consider about women: I feel I am fairly typical ... so of course when I am aroused I will be aroused if I am wearing panties. I will also be aroused if I'm naked, wearing blue jeans, or dressed as a martian for Halloween. Arousal is arousal, no matter what I have on or what I am doing. lol. If I am aroused, the feeling doesn't go away if I am washing a car, vacuuming, reading a book, driving around town, looking at myself in the mirror, or whatever. Do I specifically become aroused over the thought of being a sexually attractive opposite-body-type (like CDers)? No.

Moser: Autogynephilia in Women (http://home.netcom.com/~docx2/AGF.htm)

Last, I like Julia Serrano's solution (author of the Whipping Girl) best. She suggests we should rename "autogynephilia" to "Female Embodiment Fantasies" (FEF). No doubt this would appease members of the transsexual community who object to even having CDers say they do experience arousal over the thought of having a sexually attractive female body.

Serrano: Female Embodiment Fantasies (http://juliaserano.blogspot.com/2015/05/reconceptualizing-autogynephilia-as_26.html)

Do GGs have Female Embodiment Fantasies? No.

[Zooey]

I read the article, and while I could certainly be misinterpreting things, I don't think the correct conclusion to draw from it is that women experience autogynephilia as described in the original study. I think the correct conclusion to draw is that the methodology (questions) used by the original study are not a good/reliable indicator of the proposed condition, and concordantly the composition of responses to the original survey is not unique to the population as originally suggested.

AFAICT none of the questions specifically address cross-sex or female bodied fantasies, merely stereotypically feminine grooming and attire. I do agree with Reine that the condition, approximately as originally described, is almost certainly present in the CD population (and likely with a fairly high rate of incidence).

[PaulaQ]

The correct conclusion is that Blanchard never bothered to test to see if women were classified as autogynephiliac in his survey and hypothesis. That the construct of AGP doesn't really seem like a paraphilia, and that this isn't phenomenon isn't a good predictor of transition in MtF's. And of course women aren't experiencing a paraphilia that makes then fantasize about their female bodies. The point is that most likely, neither are MtF's. Given that we have evidence now showing the structural similarities between the brains of cis women and MtF trans, we have a much more plausible idea about why we experience these feelings and the origin of gender dysphoria. We fantasize about having female bodies because our brains are wired this way.

Blanchard's theory fails on many levels, including it's inability to differentiate between female attracted MtF's and cisgender women.

To conclude "ok obviously it's wrong for cis women, but dang it's right on for trans!" is just laziness and intellectual dishonesty. A central tenant of Blanchard's theory and methods fails to match his prediction. This really calls the whole theory into question. (Aside from the fact that Blanchard totally disregards MtF's who are attracted to females who express ZERO signs of AGP. I know a number of such people.)

My opinion is that all of us who transition, and most of the MtF CD's on the forum here are experiencing some degree of gender dysphoria, and this, plus testosterone in their systems, drives these fantasies. That is, I don't believe these fantasies are the cause of transition, but rather are a byproduct of having a fully or partially feminized brain under the influence of T.