Transition because you have to?

[Tina_gm]

Diane brought up something in the CD section about how younger people today are more likely to transition because of greater acceptance and awareness of trans issues. Most who are TS and are or have transitioned caution that transition should only be done if one feels they "have to"

In coming to a point in ones life where one has to, by that time, typically, and I have read several people here describe hitting such horrible low points in life. contemplating or attempting suicide, crippling depression, substance abuse, failed marriages, jobs etc etc... Many here regret those dark years and think, if only they had come to grips with it all and not fought themselves, they would have saved many years where life was anything but pleasant.

I myself fought my own femininity for nearly 30 years. I do not consider transition for 2 reasons. 1st, It would all but destroy 30 plus years worth of adult life that I have built, and second, because while frustrating at times, my life as a male is bearable. I don't have to.

I cannot honestly say what would have happened 30 years ago if I had begun to accept my own femininity. I really do not know if I would have transitioned or not. I do find certain times of my life as a male to be bearable and even enjoyable. I do know that things would be a lot different though, as I would not have hid myself, limited my CDing and likely would have directed my life in ways where CDing, and the people around me (circle of friends) would not have a big issue with it.

I am wondering that perhaps, the do not transition if you don't have to is no longer the best advice? However, I also wonder and perhaps worry that people who are somewhere strongly on the TG scale, may think they should transition and then later regret it. It appears to me that by the time someone transitions, they typically do not regret it. Only the amount of time spent fighting themselves before they did.

[stefan37]

For younger individuals it is different in many respects. For one there is much information available. Societal and in many instances parental acceptance is better. Transitioning while younger allows for more time to adopt female socializations and make it easier for younger transitioners to integrate. Late life transitioners such as myself have/or had heavily invested in male socializations. Marital and parental issues. Work and credit histories. Male body physiology. The lists go on. The damage that results from pulling the tranny grenade pin(Tm). Can be catastrophic. The younger one starts living as female the more successful they will be. Stealth becomes a very viable outcome. It's possible that in 50 years there will be no Trans movement. Is older and mud life transitioners will be dead. Those that start their lives earlier as MTF or Ftm will be acclimated in their target gender and only those intimate with their early years will know.

Certainly had I had the availability of information that is available today. I have no doubt my life would have been completely different.

[Dianne S]

I think younger people who decide to transition really do have to. "Do not transition unless you have to" is excellent advice that still holds.

The problem with my generation is that some of us really had to transition, but we fought it unproductively. I think the younger generation is less likely to fight against their own true nature.

[Frances]

Why would anyone "want" to transition?

[Jennifer-GWN]

Personally I struggled for a long time. 1 with my primary gender but 2 with a sense of duty to my family. Last fall it reached a point where there was only two paths forward and one was not very fulfilling and rather permanent in a harmful way. I would have loved to have pursued this a long time ago but as others have indicated i still hadn't reached that critical point as I was continuing to fight it, be stubborn, and feel it could be controlled. As much as hindsight is 20/20 it would have been great to transition earlier in life but as they say if you're not ready you shouldn't... This is a big change. Not something to be taken lightly. I personally think it is important to know your needs to the core and only then make the step forward in earnest.

Cheers... Jennifer

[Badtranny]

Transition is a brutal process no matter how you slice it because of ONE thing. The social aspect. Sure the surgeries, and electrolysis, and yadda yadda yadda, there is physical pain but NOTHING is more difficult than the social transition. It is everything.

The day after you pull the pin, your life as you knew it is over. If you're a late TranSitioner, then you will NEVER be free of the dude you used to be. You will NOT disappear into your new life as a woman. You will always be a transgender woman and you will never forget that you were a man for most of your life. Most of the people in your life will never forget it either.

Younger people have the advantage of more time in front of them then behind them, as well as physical advantages. I don't have advice for young people except; be true to yourself, you ain't gonna be young forever.

Transition takes away everything and only gives you ONE thing back; Freedom. Don't transition unless you think that's a good trade.

For me the freedom was worth everything.

[AllieSF]

I think that the statement still is very valid, especially for those that have a well establish life. However, for the much younger people wanting to be themselves early in life, like in their teens and earlier 20's, what you say may have more traction. They have less invested in their societal life and careers, have so much to look forward to in the future, i.e. a much longer life being who they really are, though their bodies might not yet reflect that, may have a lot of support from family and friends, have newer national and local/State laws protecting them, have doctors and therapists available who better understand the situation, and have the general society that is finally starting to understand what this is all about. Under these circumstances, I think that the "have to" could be replaced by the "need to".

The "have to" reasoning is because there is so much to lose for a mature and established adult when transitioning later in life. New transitioner's need to know that transition is not easy. The difficulties and the transitional steps so disrupting to themselves and others that will be encountered means that one is hopefully mentally and probably physically ready and able to put themselves through all that. While our newer and younger transitioner's may be able to avoid a lot of the disruptions and collateral damage to others and themselves just because they are younger. They will probably encounter similar difficulties and issues during their transitions but maybe not to the same level of negative impact as the older transitioner's.

This is all conjuncture at this point until we can really look back under the "time will tell" reality.

[Starling]

I am happy with many aspects of my male life. I'm moderately successful in a difficult profession, have a lot of friends and live in comfort. But...through all my years of living pretty well as a man, I have never been able to love myself and feel true joy or fulfillment, and always felt alienated from my own life, always knew I was living falsely. Because I despise it, and must nurture a death wish, I've treated my body badly, and neglected my health, from teeth to toes. By the time I finally came to terms with my true nature, it was almost too late to hope for a transition that was not only "successful", but also worth the trouble, pain and loss.

That issue is what I'm grappling with right now, and I can tell any young transgender woman yes, get plenty of advice and counseling, by all means be sure you really know yourself and what you'll be letting yourself in for; but when you're certain of who you really are, go ahead and make the leap, for your own sake and the sake of everyone you love. Don't waste your life in a lie. Believe me, all your accomplishments as a "male" will ultimately be like dust in your mouth.

:) Lallie

[KaraK]

i can't agree more with what you said Starling, don't waste your life in a lie, but it's quite hard for everyone.
As a young one living this struggle, even if I feel deep inside that I'm not who I really am, there is always a part of myself wondering whether this is the right choice or not, would I be able to destroy all (even if it's a small thing for older) I've built, lose part of my entourage, family... Of course changes would be more effective in my early 20s than in my 60s but it's a huge step and the "because you have to" is still the right advice for young ones and all guys and girls out there.

[stefan37]

I'll tell you the same thing I tell other young people. Explore and experiment. If it's right for you. You'll know. You need to be honest with YOU. If she exists. And you allow it. She will emerge. And you can continue on with life.If she exists and you fight it. She will emerge at a most inconvenient time in your life. And you can continue on in life. If she doesn't exist and you allow it. She will not emerge. And you can continue on with your life.

[PaulaQ]

Virtually every aspect of my old life was superior to my present life, with one exception - I can stand to live my present life, despite it's issues.

Of course I feared the losses we all fear. Doing what I knew I needed to do was a terrifying prospect.

Don't do what I did, and wait until you can no longer stand life at all to transition. Because at that point, it may well be too late for you. It very nearly was for me.

[Rachel Smith]

Transition takes away everything and only gives you ONE thing back; Freedom. Don't transition unless you think that's a good trade.

For me the freedom was worth everything.

Now that is well said Melissa. I agree the freedom is worth everything.

[Jennifer-GWN]

Virtually every aspect of my old life was superior to my present life, with one exception - I can stand to live my present life, despite it's issues.

Of course I feared the losses we all fear. Doing what I knew I needed to do was a terrifying prospect.

Don't do what I did, and wait until you can no longer stand life at all to transition. Because at that point, it may well be too late for you. It very nearly was for me.

Paula... You're right on the fear side for sure. Transition is a big step and often a leap of faith often when you hit rock bottom. I can't say I've actually given up a lot as the eventual upside has sure out weighted the other option and on a day-to-day level actually enhanced many of my existing relationships simply because I'm being me and for,others there no confusion in who I am.

Cheers all. Jennifer

[PretzelGirl]

In the context of the younger generation (the millennials if you will), the acceptance level is higher. I certainly don't think it is at a perfect point, but the social aspect of transitioning is no where near what it is for the current late transitioners. By no means do I believe that means it is easy. But I do think there is a continuing trend of better societal acceptance which allows a transition at a time that you feel you "have to" to where the personal and professional damage is far less than it has been for what many here experienced. So for late transitioners, the "have to" was have to and sometimes fight that for a long time before there is no way to fight anymore. Now it looks to be sliding to "have to" and then you do it. If that acceptance continues in a good trend, the damage and lives lost will also go down. I think it is a promising future, just a matter of how long.

[kimdl93]

It's very difficult for me to imagine life in the context of today's twenty something. At that time in my life, being outed as a cross dresser was the worst fate imaginable....at least in my own mind. Twenty years later I was outed by my ex wife (to family, friends and coworkers) and, oddly enough, the sun rose again in the East. Maybe today, a young person really can consider possibilities we were too afraid to consider, and can do so even without desperation.

I listened to a Frontline podcast over the weekend about transsexual children...under sixteen...who were pioneering both puberty suppression meds and cross gender hormonal therapies. It was interesting and truly informative to hear the clarity of these kids in describing their gender identity. I thought of myself at the same age and all I knew was I was confused and scared of the possibilities. These kids, of course, enjoy parental support that someone of my age could never have had. And they are so very well informed, possessed with a depth of knowledge instead of the fear and ignorance that afflicted people of my generation.

Even then, I wasn't able to allow myself to consider the possibility of living openly as a woman. Today, I can envision a future that accommodates both the life I led and the one I hope to lead, in some measure. I don't know that I would call it a transition in the accepted meaning of the term, but it will certainly be different and more encompassing than the past.

[Dianne S]

Transition takes away everything and only gives you ONE thing back; Freedom.

Maybe I'm unreasonably lucky, but I have not as yet suffered huge losses from transition. I still have my mom, my sisters and my kids. I still have the respect of my employees. And in fact, I'm reconnecting with old friends as well as making new ones.

I think it's a big case of YMMV, though I certainly acknowledge I'm on the extreme "everything went smoothly" scale of transition.

[PaulaQ]

I think it's a big case of YMMV, though I certainly acknowledge I'm on the extreme "everything went smoothly" scale of transition.

That's why it's important for all of us to tell our stories. Not every transition is a nightmare.

[Kimberly Kael]

Paula, it's absolutely true and yet also somewhat heretical around here. I suspect it's more accurate to observe at this point in time that even in the most accepting parts of the world every transition is a still a risk. I think there's something to the OP's question about whether the familiar adage still holds. To be perfectly honest, I didn't transition because I had to. I did suspect that at some point it may very well have become that urgent. I did take the time to inform myself and work with a gender therapist to weigh the possible risks against the benefits. Ultimately I decided that being true to myself was worth risking my marriage and career over. I understood that I might lose connections with friends and family, so it's not like I took it lightly.

... and yet here I am. My career is perhaps somewhat less high powered than it might have been but it is still rewarding. My marriage is strong, if unconventional. I get to spend every single day as myself and I suffered only one significant falling out with a family member. It has been worth it, no question, and it has been merely challenging.

[cheryl reeves]

so if we are transexual we have to transition now? just wonder for not all ts's chose to transition for personal reasons. i hope this post isnt trolling. i for one am very ts and could have chosen to transition at a early age but my love for women stopped me,for if i transitioned then,i wouldnt have what i have now a son who loves cheryl as much as he loves his dad..i wouldnt have my wonderful wife for i would be alone. ive seen plain cders get trapped into transitioning because they think they have to too belong and later regret transitioning,and they try to transition back or commit suicide..i know both sides of the aisle for ive been there done that.

[PaulaQ]

so if we are transexual we have to transition now? just wonder for not all ts's chose to transition for personal reasons. i hope this post isnt trolling.

No one is saying that. Nobody will force you to transition. No one is better, or worse, than anyone else for transitioning or not transitioning. Some of us are simply unable to switch back and forth, or otherwise continue any part of our lives as male. When someone reaches a point where they can no longer tolerate such a life, that's "having to transition", and believe me, it's very real for some of us.

[cheryl reeves]

dont get me wrong i applaud those who have to transition because they cant stand their male side so they kill it off or better word amputate that part of themselves,some still feel that missing part while others dont. but ive seen plain vanilla cders jump on the ts bandwagon because they hear or see the transition or because ts's are allowed in cd meetings and feel thats the way to go and regret it,especially when they lose a supportive spouse and end up alone wondering what the hell happened. ive been somewhat accused of pretending on who i am,but im very aware of who i am.

[PaulaQ]

they cant stand their male side so they kill it off or better word amputate that part of themselves

It's simpler than all of that. I transitioned because I'm a woman, through and through.


but ive seen plain vanilla cders jump on the ts bandwagon because they hear or see the transition or because ts's are allowed in cd meetings and feel thats the way to go and regret it,especially when they lose a supportive spouse and end up alone wondering what the hell happened.

Cheryl, there are a number of reasons such a thing happens, in my opinion:
1. People who really aren't good candidates for a traditional binary transition, but try to do it anyway, because it's the only thing they are aware of. Someone who is really gender fluid, for example, is only going to trade one dysphoric experience for another. The guidance many of us who are in transition, but are binary aligned, might give such a person may well be totally wrong for them.
2. The pain they suffer from gender dysphoria is less than the pain transition brings to their lives.
3. They perhaps have unrealistic expectations about what could go wrong. I caution people that they are likely to face discrimination of a sort most of them have never experienced. Isolation and loneliness is a common outcome - this is why I encourage engagement with the trans community. Losing a spouse is a near certainty, and many times, even if their marriage doesn't end, it's NOTHING like what it was before. Some of us don't find partners for several years.
4. They lack resources and a plan to actually successfully complete their transition. Partially transitioning, and then stopping, is an excellent way to put yourself into an even worse situation than you were in before. I see this one happen all the time, particularly with younger people.
5. Although the world is better to us than it used to be, the fact is, many of us will face just terrible abuse.
6. Gender dysphoria is a terrible condition. Medical treatment for it is scarce, and it kills a lot of us. You expect a positive outcome for everyone who tries this? Some of us will die. Others of us will be murdered. Many will make it.

As for this:


because ts's are allowed in cd meetings and feel thats the way to go and regret it

If you know of a person who you feel is making a horrible mistake by choosing transition - they are just a plain vanilla CD (note: most people don't consider CDs to be "vanilla"), please PM me, and I will give you my contact information and I will be GLAD to talk to them and help them in anyway that I can, including pointing them to highly competent local gender therapists. I wouldn't want anyone to make a terrible mistake. I think that trying to hide the existence of transsexuals by banning them from your group is counterproductive. We're on TV and the internet and stuff all the time now - it's hard to miss us. Likewise, if you know someone who seems to need transition, I would be very happy to talk with them. It's what I do.

[Rianna Humble]

so if we are transexual we have to transition now?

No-one said that, you are only introducing it to cause arguments


i for one am very ts and could have chosen to transition at a early age but my love for women stopped me

So you did not need to transition, then it is good that you didn't


ive seen plain cders get trapped into transitioning because they think they have to too belong and later regret transitioning,and they try to transition back or commit suicide..

So they ignored the oft-repeated advice given in this forum not to transition if you do not need to, found that there were things they valued more from their old life and didn't like it? That is a shame. If they had heeded the advice, or had sought professional help, they would not have begun transition in the first place.


i know both sides of the aisle for ive been there done that.

Actually, no you do not. According to your own words you have never transitioned.

[Badtranny]

Paula, it's absolutely true and yet also somewhat heretical around here. .

You rang? LOL

It's not heretical in my view. In fact I welcome the success stories, but they must be HONEST. I know trans girls (personally) that are doing okay after transition. And I know some that are not. I don't know anyone who hasn't had to deal with significant issues though. Now, either I'm a magnet for hard cases or gender transition is a rough road.

I love to see people have success in anything especially transition related stuff so I'm certainly not wishing tough times on anyone. My only concern is that people be 100% honest about what they're experiencing (good or bad) so the gals who are on the fence can gather useful data. Especially on this forum, so many have what I consider to be serious personality issues that could very easily contribute to a wrong headed decision to blow up their lives.

I would love to hear more from you Kimberly because at the very least, I know you're real. (we have mutual friends) You have to admit that much of what passes for 'successful transitions' around here does kind of smell funny.

[sarahcsc]

Even then, I wasn't able to allow myself to consider the possibility of living openly as a woman. Today, I can envision a future that accommodates both the life I led and the one I hope to lead, in some measure. I don't know that I would call it a transition in the accepted meaning of the term, but it will certainly be different and more encompassing than the past.

Kim,

To me, that is already the greatest victory. We should not make transition our destinations because as many her have pointed out, it isn't for everybody. Maybe it was inappropriate due to financial issues, interpersonal issues, family issues, but I think it just boils to one thing; timing.

The timing has to be just 'right'. Any earlier and we'll still be in conflict and doubt, any later and we'll uh... you know.

Unfortunately, the right timing for transition doesn't occur for everyone.

But if the goal of transition was to live a fuller life, then there are other ways to do that too. Sounds like you are doing that already. :)


Virtually every aspect of my old life was superior to my present life, with one exception - I can stand to live my present life, despite it's issues.


I think we do substitute one set of problems for another, except in our new lives, we feel more genuine and authentic about it.

From what you have told us thus far, I really admire your courage. :) I hope things with your ex will settle soon enough...


That issue is what I'm grappling with right now, and I can tell any young transgender woman yes, get plenty of advice and counseling, by all means be sure you really know yourself and what you'll be letting yourself in for; but when you're certain of who you really are, go ahead and make the leap, for your own sake and the sake of everyone you love. Don't waste your life in a lie. Believe me, all your accomplishments as a "male" will ultimately be like dust in your mouth.

:) Lallie

Awhile ago, I was involved in a thread about 'what advise to give young CDs' and it went something like what you said. I don't disagree with the advise, except I don't think the younger me would listen to the older me even if I laid down the bare facts in front of him.

It is fine to give younger people advise but we should be very careful not to usurp their narrative and deprive them of their necessary experience to learn from life.

In my case, I was young, ignorant, terrified of what my parents/friends/society would do to me, and most of all, I was in denial about my GD. No amount of 'advise' given to me would move me even if I went back in time to do so.

Sometimes, we just have to give it time...


Transition takes away everything and only gives you ONE thing back; Freedom. Don't transition unless you think that's a good trade.

For me the freedom was worth everything.

I'm glad you found your freedom. Priceless. :)


Younger people have the advantage of more time in front of them then behind them, as well as physical advantages. I don't have advice for young people except; be true to yourself, you ain't gonna be young forever.


You are right that young people have more time in front of them as well as the physical advantages, but they are also more naive and less financially capable to pursue their wishes (to transition).

Young people are arguably more conflicted because of the crossroads they are at and the fear of potentially making a 'wrong' turn.


Diane brought up something in the CD section about how younger people today are more likely to transition because of greater acceptance and awareness of trans issues. Most who are TS and are or have transitioned caution that transition should only be done if one feels they "have to"

In coming to a point in ones life where one has to, by that time, typically, and I have read several people here describe hitting such horrible low points in life. contemplating or attempting suicide, crippling depression, substance abuse, failed marriages, jobs etc etc... Many here regret those dark years and think, if only they had come to grips with it all and not fought themselves, they would have saved many years where life was anything but pleasant.

I myself fought my own femininity for nearly 30 years. I do not consider transition for 2 reasons. 1st, It would all but destroy 30 plus years worth of adult life that I have built, and second, because while frustrating at times, my life as a male is bearable. I don't have to...



Hi gendermutt,

There is sometimes merit in 'waiting' when it comes to making major life changing decisions but I'd generally say that only applies to younger people (ie. age 40 or less).

Awhile ago I proposed a theory about how our 'life stages' will affect the way we perceive our lives and the direction in which we're heading and people in different life stages would want different things. Yes, that includes transitioning.

I agree that people tend to wait for long periods of time, often times after enduring lots of hardships and torture, becoming finally willing to do something about it.

Your two reasons is exactly why I did not choose to transition earlier too, and the reason why I've decided to take HRT now is because the time in my life is 'right' for it, but most importantly, the time was 'wrong' if I were to do it earlier. I would have been deprived of a lot of necessary skills and experience if I were to do it earlier, and maybe even traumatized more than is necessary.

================================================== =======

The idea of transitioning because 'we have to', sounds as though one is being coerced (ie. by suicide or extreme dissatisfaction).

Sure, perhaps one has to endure the painful 'wait' before the timing is right to transition but I think the idea of transitioning because 'we have to' has to be reframed.

I'd encourage people to embrace the idea that transitioning is ultimately is free choice.

This may sound polarizing because those who have been through worse will probably say "I had no choice!!".

Well... you do. :) Maybe it is hard to see it when emotions are running high, but we all have choices. Even suicide is a choice.

I say this because I believe it is better to own our decision (to transition) and take responsibility for it rather than blaming it on the dysphoria. The dysphoria is there only because you haven't done anything about it!

Transitioning is a big step and those who have transitioned out of free will probably fare better after because they did so willingly.

These people probably understand and appreciate the 'freedom' that Badtranny was talking about. Freedom, free choice.

Ayn Rand said, "the question isn't who is going to let me, but who is going to stop me." Realistically speaking, nobody is stopping us but ourselves. But we wouldn't proceed because we won't take responsibility for the consequences that may follow.

And to remedy the situation, we must also appreciate and take responsibility for the consequences of our inaction.



Love,
S

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I am happy with many aspects of my male life. ..............

....................................... Don't waste your life in a lie. Believe me, all your accomplishments as a "male" will ultimately be like dust in your mouth.

:) Lallie


Dust in your mouth.....
if you are transsexual and you come up with decades of reasons to not transition....this is your likely fate....i spit the dust out when i was 48 years old... i accomplished so much in my life...great kids...so much love...great job...none of it felt "right"...it all fell apart..i am not the only one of course...

in the end, if everyone could boil it down to simple quality of life that would be great, but as humans we are not well suited to predict the future and its really hard to face current consequences in comparison to future unknowns..

all don't transition unless you "have to" means is that its a serious thing and flirting around with the idea as a lifestyle choice is idiotic and not productive...

the statement also reflects how many times we must simply accept huge and destructive short term consequences to proceed...we accept those consequences because we "have to"...perhaps it makes it easier to swallow for some people..

===========
and fwiw my transition was wildly successful...i'm authentic passable and real...all done at 50... i live how i please...i feel alive...my kids, my ex, my family all accept me... they saw how it improved my life....they responded to my better self....

it took 5 years of hell to push the button, and 3 years of really hard work to execute it but i wouldn't trade my path for anything.... i think fighting for those 5 years was what it took for me to have the confidence and internal fortitude to keep going when it seemed really bad (telling kids...wife hating me...giving up on my job...deep deep depression...).... if i didnt "have to", i have no idea if i could have gone on...

so if "you have to", then i say you simply do it and you do it as best you can... you treat all around you like gold and go about your business and make no mistake transition is business in the end...whether you are 20 or 80

[stefan37]

You can talk all you want about choices and reasons why not to transition. But if you are truly TS, then you will have no choice but to transition. The variables will be timing, denial and acceptance of the condition and how well you can mitigate the GD. There will come a time when the only way to mitigate that inner calling is to transition. Identity is ingrained in our core. Like trying to hold down a beach ball underwater. It can only be held down so long until it breaks free and rises to the surface.

Transition itself has levels and those that do leap will find the level that they feel comfortable. Timetables are also variable due to medical, and financial considerations.

Melissa mentioned freedom and just the declaration that you are transitioning is liberating. But transition will eliminate only the GD. The other stressors in life will still be there and need to be dealt with.

If one can take the steps necessary to improve the quality of their life without needing to socially live as a female 24/7. That is terrific. But for many of us the only way to improve our quality of life is to socially transition and live out lives as women.

[PaulaQ]

It's not heretical in my view. In fact I welcome the success stories, but they must be HONEST. I know trans girls (personally) that are doing okay after transition. And I know some that are not. I don't know anyone who hasn't had to deal with significant issues though. Now, either I'm a magnet for hard cases or gender transition is a rough road.

I know people who really haven't lost anything. It's highly unpredictable though. I think the difference between our attitudes is nuance. Transition, and life as trans is a cruel condition. For many of us, it's a medical condition requiring treatment. However, unless you are incredibly lucky and live in certain locations, there will be no medical help available for you, and indeed doctors may well laugh in your face, and watch you die. (Not exaggerating here.)

So here's the dilemma we face:
1. Do you seek treatment and risk often terrible social consequences? You may well be murdered because you seek treatment.
2. Do you try to hold fast, especially if you aren't yet completely miserable, and hope you aren't one of the people this condition kills.

No one can predict which of these awful choices will work out the best.

I lean towards recommending choice 1, because I know what the worst case feels like. People tell me I'm courageous, but I'm not, I was simply so miserable that part of me has hoped death would take me - I simply didn't care whether or not I lived or died. No one should live like that.

You choose to recommend 2, because your experience, and many others is like that, and the fact is, having support, resources, and a plan makes a person a hell of a lot more likely to succeed.

Both of these are horrible choices, and with either you take horrible chances that no one should have to take. It is unpredictable which of these choices will be the best for any person. Indeed, some of us will die whichever choice we make.

That's why I always tell people to listen to our stories, especially in person. Anyone who relates to my experience may as well prepare as best they can and roll the dice - because you'll likely die regardless. If you relate more to Badtranny's, you sure as hell better listen to her because she knows what she's talking about.

The fun part? You won't know for several years which choice was the right one, or if either would even make a difference.

[LeaP]

Getting back to the question in the OP, I think the advice to not transition unless you have to holds in all circumstances, regardless of the relative acceptance of the current era. As it relates to young people – certainly to the late teens/early 20s, these are often quite certain about who and what they are as well as what they have to do. Those who are older and have buried their issues, or those who are uncertain for any reason, are not going to transition unless they have to anyway. Or if they socially transition, it is highly unlikely they will take it further than that without REALLY feeling the need.

I think Cheryl's CD transitioning concern is a red herring. Acceptance might allow them more opportunities to go out comfortably. If anything, that should reduce any internal pressure they might have from being over-closeted.

[Starling]

I have great respect for you, Michele. I pay attention when you have something to say. You took a big chance, but you were smart about it, and you prospered. And many do. It's one thing, however, to begin transition at fifty; try adding twenty years to that. At fifty, I still had a lot of youth left. Now, at least physically speaking, it's all in the rear view mirror. The root of my problem is that I didn't really know what I was until I came here. I know it's hard to believe one can live decade after decade with an undercurrent of misery, without knowing why. But to be completely honest, I thought it was all about crossdressing ad absurdum, and I had been in and out of closet CDing since childhood. Each time I thought this time too, it would pass.

If I'd had real information earlier, the pieces might have fallen into place for me when I was younger. But mine was a solitary consciousness, full of loneliness and shame, and bereft of hope. Jorja was pretty much alone out there when she transitioned. In addition to being a super-strong person, she must have known in her bones that she was a woman.

I've posted ad nauseam in here about my situation, so I'm not going to recapitulate it now. But with all the resources at our disposal at present, and with social attitudes evolving as they are, you've got to figure this s*** out early and act as decisively as you can, before you make too many choices that will create extra conflict and difficulty. The vision that plagues me is of myself as a young woman with my whole life ahead of me. If I'd only known.

I may ultimately be able to pull this off, but it's a hell of a lot harder when you're old.

:) Lallie

[LeaP]

... i think fighting for those 5 years was what it took for me to have the confidence and internal fortitude to keep going when it seemed really bad ... if i didnt "have to", i have no idea if i could have gone on...



+10

I have been trying to figure out why this is getting easier. I'm out and in planning at work. Out at home. Able to discuss the most serious aspects of transition, whether financial risk, personal and marital impacts, surgeries, etc. any one of which would have sent my anxiety through the stratosphere at the slightest touch, not to mention triggering a subsequent fight or meltdown.

It is easier because it was really, really bad for a long time. I would not have been able to do this two years ago. I am certain of that.

[Jorja]

I have been pretty much trying to stay out of this conversation. You young girls need to talk among your selves and figure it out for yourselves sometimes. By young, I do not mean chronological age. Most here are at most 5 or 6 years post GRS or just starting transition, or someplace in between. I have been a woman longer than I was a male.

Super strong? I don't know about that. You are right, I knew in my bones that I was a woman. I knew with every fiber of my being. They say God doesn't make mistakes. I call BS! He sure screwed this one up.

I had a couple of transwomen who guided me along and helped me deal with it. As far as making life a success, all I can say is I was born to succeed. I want everyone to understand, I got crapped on just like anyone else who goes through transition. I had the very same social, mental, and physical problems that are talked about right here in this forum everyday. I was determined to not let any of that hold me back. That is just me. Give me a challenge and tell me I can't. You are in for a big surprise.

I was young (22-24) when I transitioned. I would have transitioned at 3 or 4 if that was possible. It made a huge difference how people related to and dealt with me. I can not imagine transitioning at 40,50 or 60+. That must be as frighting as hell. I was also at a place in my life with little meaningful background, no spouse, children but barred (court order) from seeing them until they were 18, and no job seeing as how I was fired after coming out. I didn't have lifetime of accomplishments behind me. As it worked out, I was in the perfect place at the right time, if that makes any sense.

[Suzanne F]

This is the best thread that I have read. Most posts had valid points. Yes I hope younger people don't hide like I did for most of their lives. Greater acceptance may allow more expression which may help to better determine who should transition. Gender fluidity may be a viable option for some and provide a better solution than transitioning. The point is that transparency may help. However, I still believe transition should be very carefully weighed.

I agree with Melissa, the freedom is worth the cost. I am so far one of the fortunate ones. I still have my wife and children. Many of my friends are supportive and everyone as far as friends and family knows. Yes there have been some losses and there will be more. Yes I have felt the scorn and humiliation of some. However, I have found a strength in me that I didn't know I had. That discovery in itself is worth the journey. I love the woman I have finally acknowledged in myself. I apologize to no one for being me.

Finally, no I have not faced the work issue yet. I sometimes feel less than because of that fact. I am lucky to rarely have to appear at the plant as I am an account manager and work from home most of the time. I have a careful plan of how and when I am coming out. I have chosen this plan to protect my families finances as I continue HRT and prepare for surgery next May. The final storm is coming. Yesterday was one of those days I had to make an appearance at a meeting. I shuddered at one point knowing what lies ahead of me. No I would not make light of what transitioning risks!

Suzanne

[LeaP]

Never feel less, Suzanne. If there is one thing I've learned, it's that every last path has its critics. Trans critics. I have mine, some right here. The only thing that matters in the end is what you do. Not when or in what order or why.

[Starling]

Kaitlyn, I don't know why after all these years I called you Michele. But that's just one of a million things I don't know.

:) Lallie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

a million ???
that makes it about 10000000000 things we don't know between the two of us

[PretzelGirl]

Kaitlyn, I don't know why after all these years I called you Michele. But that's just one of a million things I don't know.

Transition lesson thought. To me this could be the same mechanism that causes someone who knows us well to pop off with the wrong name. If not done maliciously, I always concede an "It's okay, but it is really bothersome so I would appreciate it not happening again". I have done it myself more with the less often used phrasing like calling myself my wife's husband, luckily to a friend who died laughing. And I did the same thing... "where is the F did that come from".

Like some, I am still integrated in the local trans* community. I see a variety of positive and negative transitions. It is a crap shoot and I hope (pray) that the familiarity and education that is slowly getting out there along with the impact of our young trans* individuals makes positive impacts to everyone's acceptance.

Interesting comment on Cheryl's transition, but shouldn't have comment. I have a friend that when I met her, presented more female but identified genderqueer. Two months ago we had a long talk (she may have had talks with others) about her feeling like she stopped too soon. Shortly after she announced her transition. He is now male presenting, male identifying and is ripping through transition gaining great support. He is certainly giving me smiles.

[Sara Jessica]

I was really enjoying the points of view throughout this thread until I came across the golden rule...


You can talk all you want about choices and reasons why not to transition. But if you are truly TS, then you will have no choice but to transition.

Because we all know the measure of one who is truly TS is to have no choice but to transition.

Sigh.

[MonicaJean]

I transitioned because I had to. Trying to hold back a full-bore transition was like attempting to hold back a freight train traveling at only 0.25 miles per hour. I tried but no matter how much strength I had, I could not do it...and it took everything out of me in the process. I gave in and that's when I found more self-acceptance and more inner peace. That was about 4 months into it...attempting to stay in the middle of the road was emotionally painful and taxing. I had found myself with a one-way trip to the other side.

Took me a while to wrap my mind around that, but once I did, I could smile again knowing this path was indeed the proper path.

And yes, I risked everything even mentioning the phrase "I am transgender" to the spouse. And I'm in process of losing a good portion of it.

I have yet to find many choices in just being. It's all or nothing, one-way journey to being.

Younger folks these days don't have it any easier, a transition is still terribly difficult, but they can find more fluidity in things generally. And the internet helps research it all...a tool we never had way back in the day. All I remember was Lady Like magazine.

[Zooey]

There's always a choice - the question is whether or not the choice to NOT transition is an acceptable one to the individual. I, at least heretofore, have been fortunate enough to never have been in a suicidal place. I never thought I was unhappy, until I discovered what being truly happy actually felt like. While I could probably have limped along for a few more years, having discovered myself I refuse to waste any more time living a life that's INFINITELY more convenient but ultimately entirely devoid of real joy. In retrospect, I don't think I ever really felt alive before, and I'd much rather endure some pain in exchange for some joy than continue just sliding through life never really caring that much about anything.

"Only transition if you have to" is perfectly good advice, and I would of course say the same to anybody who asked, but I think people need to remember that the definition of "have to" is ultimately a personal one. For those who disagree with saying that to people, I guess I would suggest that if somebody's resolve is flimsy enough to be shut down by the mere suggestion that someone else doesn't like or approve of their definition, then they don't really believe they have to and probably shouldn't, or at the very least aren't ready to commit to the choice.

[LaSirenaBella]

I was told in my early 30s and then in my late 30s, by two different friends, that if I could tolerate even one moment (or day, I don't remember) as a man, then hold off on transition.

I took that advice to heart.

I fight hard to not let the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" from getting in my head. At this point in my life (late 40s), my dysphoria is randomly intense, or rather triggered much of the time for various reasons. I've witnessed successful transitions, I've experienced train wrecks, I've been witness to friends committing suicide.

Transition for me would be extremely disruptive in all aspects of my life, including a strong marriage. My wife does not deserve the heartbreak, especially considering how good she is with me-as-Sirena now compared to earlier in our relationship.

I live with a dual-role presentation. It works for me at this time at this point in my life. The sting of my dysphoria can be managed well enough. I think.

I that I'm not equipped at any level to make a transition, medical and/or surgical. Still, I fear becoming an old man, but what I fear even more is dying a lonely old woman.

[Eringirl]

I agree with many posts here. I think the notion of "don't transition unless you have to is still valid". I discovered and was diagnosed as TS 17 years ago. But I decided not to transition at that time. I wasn't mentally ready. I wasn't financially ready. Society wasn't ready (that isn't to say that society is ready now, but sure is a lot better than it was 17 years ago, at least in my world). My children, who were very young at the time, were not ready. The amount of resources and valid information was not as available as it is now. And, I did have the strength to fight it of. Now, that is no longer the case. I don't have the strength. The alternative to transitioning was not pretty, and was final. But now, I am ready. So it is my time. Which is a good thing, because I have to. This is not really a choice...it is an imperative.

having said all of that, I can't imagine doing all this if I didn't have to.....But that is just me.....

[DebbieL]

Diane brought up something in the CD section about how younger people today are more likely to transition because of greater acceptance and awareness of trans issues. Most who are TS and are or have transitioned caution that transition should only be done if one feels they "have to"

Many of us know we are girls before we find out that they don't have a penis. By the time I was 2 years old, I was making dresses out of dry cleaner bags, making skirts out of towels or pillow cases. I liked bright colors, fringe, and I wanted to be "pretty". Back in those days (late 1950s) they thought it was "just a phase".


In coming to a point in ones life where one has to, by that time, typically, and I have read several people here describe hitting such horrible low points in life. contemplating or attempting suicide, crippling depression, substance abuse, failed marriages, jobs etc etc...

In elementary school I was forced to play with the boys it in the field, where I was physically assaulted every day. They did it because I was a "Sissy" - a "girly". They were right. I couldn't help it. Everything I did wreaked of feminine.

When I was told about puberty by my father. I was horrified to find out that I had no choice. When my testes dropped, I did my best to castrate myself without bleeding to death. Boiling water, a dozen rubber bands to strangle them, and even a hammer and a 2x4. I'm not the first, or the last, do take similar actions. Many transgender boys injure themselves in "accidental" injuries.

When I was told my voice changed, that I was a bass, I became suicidal. I became a drug addict, alcoholic, and pretty much hated everyone and everything. I would often start fights that I couldn't possibly win, with my smart mouth. Suicide by biker, suicide by redneck, suicide by cowboy, all attempted. I tried to overdose dozens of times, and tried to strangle myself or asphyxiate myself a few dozen times as well. I tried walking out in front of cars, but either they would swerve around me or I would back-out at the last second.

Keep in mind that I didn't want to die. I wanted to be reincarnated as a girl.

As a result of the research done in the last 10 years, we now know that there are a LOT of transgender people and that as much as 45% have tried to commit suicide at least once before they were 25. Furthermore, a little data mining shows that those who don't have family support for their true selves pushes the rate even higher, to more than half. The more the intense the desire to be a girl, the higher the risk of suicide.

Until about 30 years ago, psychiatrists considered gender dysphoria a delusion, a psychosis, and those who had the courage to request help were the most severe, so the suicide rate was crazy high.


Many here regret those dark years and think, if only they had come to grips with it all and not fought themselves, they would have saved many years where life was anything but pleasant.

When I transitioned, someone asked me "any regrets?". My only regret was that I couldn't have transitioned 50 years ago. It wasn't possible. Had doctors know then, they would have fried my brain, maybe even lobotomized me.


I myself fought my own femininity for nearly 30 years. I do not consider transition for 2 reasons. 1st, It would all but destroy 30 plus years worth of adult life that I have built, and second, because while frustrating at times, my life as a male is bearable. I don't have to.

I always knew what I really was, but I was terrified to let anyone find out again. At first I tried to act straight, but failed at that, so I hung out with the gay boys in school, since everyone thought I was gay because :I was so feminine, I fit in easily. Later, when I got married, I realized that Rex was asexual and that Debbie was bisexual. I pretended to be a cross-dresser so that she could have access to Debbie for sex. It worked until she rejected Debbie, then the relationship became very platonic for a few years.


I cannot honestly say what would have happened 30 years ago if I had begun to accept my own femininity. I really do not know if I would have transitioned or not. I do find certain times of my life as a male to be bearable and even enjoyable. I do know that things would be a lot different though, as I would not have hid myself, limited my CDing and likely would have directed my life in ways where CDing, and the people around me (circle of friends) would not have a big issue with it.

30 years ago, it would have depended on your state. I started to transition 30 years ago in Colorado Springs. I had no legal right. My employer did their best to force me to resign, even as I won 3 awards for outstanding achievement. I was almost arrested for using the men's room. A police officer detained me for almost an hour while he checked every department of government he could think of to see if I was a prostitute. All this because a suitcase had knocked my tail-light out of the mount. My ex only had to tell a social worker at her church that I was a transsexual and she was all too willing to write a carefully worded letter that would have revoked my parental rights, including visitation, while still requiring me to pay full child support and day care to my ex and her new husband, both of whom were on disability after they met in the lock-up unit of a psych ward. Being a transsexual (transgender was rarely used back then), was considered worse than being bipolar and a danger to your own children.


I am wondering that perhaps, the do not transition if you don't have to is no longer the best advice? However, I also wonder and perhaps worry that people who are somewhere strongly on the TG scale, may think they should transition and then later regret it. It appears to me that by the time someone transitions, they typically do not regret it. Only the amount of time spent fighting themselves before they did.

WPATH guidelines are designed to help both the treatment team and the client to properly assess where they are at a give time, and where they are most likely to go. When possible, it's best to try and structure your life so that you can be successful after you transition. A supportive family helps a LOT, having a job that does not require that you stay in your current gender helps (not a hod carrier or infantry combat soldier), and if you are married, it's better if your partner will stick with you through transition and support you.

There are CDs who are transsexual even though they try to limit their femininity to dressing. They try to keep the risk at minimum, and try keep their secret for years, even decades. The whole time there is a pretty girl screaming to get out and play with the rest of the girls.

Therapists have be able to distinguish trans-girls like these from people who want to be girls, but not all the time, don't want to give up the perks of being a boy, and don't want to transition permanently.

[LeaP]

Because we all know the measure of one who is truly TS is to have no choice but to transition.


It's certainly convincing, SJ.

Not every TS will transition, but those who don't will suffer for it. I guess if you're going to suffer anyway, it may as well be in the hope of something better than the misery you know you already have.

[Badtranny]

Because we all know the measure of one who is truly TS is to have no choice but to transition..

I understand your point, but is it EVER appropriate to make a distinction?

I mean, one can identify as Transgender and be anything from gender queer to fully transitioned, but can one really be 'transsexual' without some kind of transition? If we meet professionally, and we exchange business cards, one of us is going to have a male name on it. Which is fine, but which one of us is transsexual?

When does a transition mean anything? You may think that you and I are the same, and maybe we are in many ways, but I have had to watch a 20 year career do a slow motion crumble around me. I don't really have any 'old' friends anymore.

My life has been completely disrupted by my transition. So how does the term transsexual apply to both of us? We're all under the TG umbrella, but if we're both TS, then what's the difference?

[stefan37]

I absolutely believe that to be transsexual is to socially transition and live 24/7 as the opposite of your birth gender. Is it just that cool to be transsexual? There are many posts on this forum where labels are argued about and debated. I would have loved to be just a male identified crossdressed. Or a gender fluid individual living in the middle expressing that identity I felt that particular day. But my inner core identity wouldn't allow that. I had to transition to live 24/7 as a woman. Yeah you could say I had a choice. I could have just continued with the Xanax, alcohol and other mitigating methods to allow me to live an uncomfortable life going out of my mind. Hell I wish I could have continued to function in life as a gender fluid individual as I had done for so many years. Had I done that I would still be married. And I really envy those that can suppress that inner urge to allow their core identity suppressed. Or the intensity is easily satisfied by some mild form of expression.

But that wasn't the case. I had to transition. I had to allow "she to emerge". To live as a woman 24/7. If any one can reach the point where they can live comfortably and have a good quality of life. While still living, interacting, keeping their birth name. That is terrific. But why in the world would you want to say your transsexual?

I also want to make clear that it has absolutely nothing to do with genitals. I know plenty of transwomen that for personal,medical or financial reasons didn't have SRS. But all of them have shed their male identity and live as woman 24/7.

[Michelle.M]

I think there’s a certain amount of tragic one-upsmanship that goes on in the trans world. In some circles, the mark of authenticity is the degree to which one suffers for their right to live in another gender. Those whose transitions were successful, who experience happiness with few, if any, negative consequences, those who have passing privilege, satisfying relationships and acceptance from others are regarded as suspect, and often are accused of being dishonest about their transition.

More than anywhere else, among trans women (trans men hardly ever do this), there exists the notion that “if it’s not true for me then it’s not true for anyone.”

As with everything we experience in life, one’s experience is unique and different from all others. Some of us felt compelled to transition because the alternative was unbearable, and for others it was simply the logical decision as the arc of their lives eventually brought them to a clearer view of their own gender identity.


all don't transition unless you "have to" means is that its a serious thing and flirting around with the idea as a lifestyle choice is idiotic and not productive...

This.

Don’t transition unless you have to? Well, of course not! It’s not a game, and the effects are profound. But for me, transition was the smartest decision I ever made. Every single thing in my life is better than before, and the only 2 things I have lost are male privilege and the ability to stand when I pee.

Losing male privilege is, I think, the adjustment that hits trans women the hardest and makes post transition life seem so difficult. I’ve learned how to deal with that, and I don’t miss it much.

[Sara Jessica]

You may think that you and I are the same, and maybe we are in many ways...

I really like your reply Melissa.

I think everyone could agree that a journey is at the heart of being transsexual and in that respect, you and I (and everyone here of similar mind & heart) have shared some of the same points in the journey. There is a commonality in experience, whether at an early age or how we coped through adolescence to when we had that a-ha moment to how we cope as adults. Then at some point along the path we diverged.

Historically speaking, there used to be two basic words in the public lexicon to describe the GID we experience(d), transvestite or transsexual. Is this thing of ours what we do or who we are? Given that I grew up with only knowing those two terms of art, and knowing myself honestly without a fabricated narrative, I identify as the latter.

Later, the term transgender came into vogue and yes, that adds another element of description which is probably an easier slot to put me into. But it doesn't undo a lifetime of learning and understanding where I fit within this wonderful world of ours, and within this diverse community of ours.

Or not.

Thing is, those of you who have transitioned along with those in that process are women to me. You have transcended the TS label which is kind of where I see the distinction regardless of whether society will ever allow you shed that label. Because I am one of those of us who possess different coping mechanisms that mercifully allows me to stave off transition makes it hard to truly fit in anywhere. And that is OK. I just felt a need to call out the black & white statement-as-fact within this community of gray that we reside in. The statement reeked of the one-upmanship that Michelle describes. I feel we are as similar as we are different, as together, yet apart in certain life experiences, yet hold to a commonality that in my mind is unbreakable.

Bringing it full circle, I am not transitioning because I don't have to. Some of you may add the word "yet" to that last sentence. I acknowledge that may prove to be true. Time will tell.


It's certainly convincing, SJ.

Not every TS will transition, but those who don't will suffer for it. I guess if you're going to suffer anyway, it may as well be in the hope of something better than the misery you know you already have.

I disagree with the notion of trading one set of issues for another. Yes, I suffer. I suffer daily. Being somewhat risk-averse by nature, I'm not entertaining a gambit where I perceive the odds of a positive outcome to be less than favorable.


I was told in my early 30s and then in my late 30s, by two different friends, that if I could tolerate even one moment (or day, I don't remember) as a man, then hold off on transition.

I took that advice to heart.

I fight hard to not let the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" from getting in my head. At this point in my life (late 40s), my dysphoria is randomly intense, or rather triggered much of the time for various reasons. I've witnessed successful transitions, I've experienced train wrecks, I've been witness to friends committing suicide.

Transition for me would be extremely disruptive in all aspects of my life, including a strong marriage. My wife does not deserve the heartbreak, especially considering how good she is with me-as-Sirena now compared to earlier in our relationship.

I live with a dual-role presentation. It works for me at this time at this point in my life. The sting of my dysphoria can be managed well enough. I think.

I that I'm not equipped at any level to make a transition, medical and/or surgical. Still, I fear becoming an old man, but what I fear even more is dying a lonely old woman.

I'm not sure I have ever read a passage written by another that fit so well that it could have been written by me. Thank you for your eloquence.

I have received the same exact advice on holding off transition, and continue to hear it to this day from the same friend. I have only lost one dear friend to suicide but her words the last time we spoke haunt me to this day, giving me strength to stay on this path of dysphoria management.

There are moments when I feel I cannot carry on with this path but those are fewer and further between ever since I made a "commitment" to stave off transition. I don't use someday as a crutch any longer.

Many of us are in the exact same boat. We don't transition because we don't have to. And as I have always said, that is OK too.

[Marleena]

Not every TS will transition, but those who don't will suffer for it. I guess if you're going to suffer anyway, it may as well be in the hope of something better than the misery you know you already have.

That pretty much sums it up Lea.

I find it interesting that we have some gender therapists in our midst defining who is or isn't TS.:D

I envy all of the postop ladies that made it through transition and are living genuine lives. If I had to choose a mentor here though it would be Kaitlyn since she struggled as a late transitioner and I can relate to her struggles since they are much like my own. She has managed to get through the "minefield" and is living a genuine life as a woman now.

[LeaP]

I disagree with the notion of trading one set of issues for another. Yes, I suffer. I suffer daily. Being somewhat risk-averse by nature, I'm not entertaining a gambit where I perceive the odds of a positive outcome to be less than favorable.

My remark was really a response to Steph. It is plain fact that not all cross-sex identified people transition. I'm referring specifically to those with serious, deep, lifelong GD. (Forget the TG's, CD's, genderqueer, etc.) Some kill themselves instead. The rest suffer. I didn't have the weighing of alternatives or the trading of issues in mind at all. Rather, that some simply don't or can't.

[stefan37]

I didn't make my comment to infer some kind of superiority. Hey if one can live a quality life without having to transition. Great. But if you want to live your life as male or partially as male. Why would you consider yourself transsexual. I really don't care how anybody identifies or what labels they want to use to categorize themselves. What is black and white is that those of us that are or have transitioned to living 24/7 will have completely different experiences than somebody living as a male or in the middle. Regardless of whether you are taking hormones or not.

I have a lifetime of experience as a closeted crossdressed. Living openly in the middle on a daily basis. None of those experiences compare to transitioning and living 24/7. It has nothing to do with one upnanship or I am more Trans than anybody else. While we may have common history's , It's our experiences living 24/7 that are different.

[Marleena]

Back to the original question...

Yes you should transition, absolutely, if you have to! I'm assuming this is meant for people that have seen a gender therapist, been diagnosed as TS, etc. and being helped along with it (transition).

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I live with a dual-role presentation. It works for me at this time at this point in my life. The sting of my dysphoria can be managed well enough. I think.

I that I'm not equipped at any level to make a transition, medical and/or surgical. Still, I fear becoming an old man, but what I fear even more is dying a lonely old woman.

i felt exactly like this until i didnt...

i got to a point where i feared lying in my final bed and regretting i ever lived, the emptiness i felt was so profound that i couldnt bear it...as i considered how i felt at the time...i considered all the data of others..i couldnt get my demise out of my head... life meant literally nothing.....anyone that cared enough to support me as him was helping a nothing...i was nothing but a made up pretend person, worthy of nothing..i welcomed any end to it but
i wanted to live so i lived...

if i die a lonely old woman ( i won't..i have wonderful kids), i'd be lonely but i would know and FEEL that i lived a meaningful life..

...if i died a man surrounded by love and the comfort of $$ and others, i would feel my life meant less than nothing...i felt i existed to be female...
it would feel like never once in my life did i actually exist outside of a trap laid by the world for me

Kafka has nothing on me..

[becky77]

I've always thought of myself as reasonably logical, but Transition trampled over my reason. I was driven to do it, I had to do it.
No disrespect to anyone 'controlling' it, but I just can't relate.
Once I knew for sure, the door was open and despite all sensible reasons not to I continued.

I just can't understand how someone can compare to my experience, when they haven't gone for broke and risked all to be themselves.

My relationship was very good, my job sound and life was to some almost enviable.
To me it was empty and hollow and every day was bitter, I have a long way to go still, the GD is under control but I still have much psychological damage to deal with.

It's tough and for me it's been pretty successful but I'm so glad I won't see the next decade in with regret.
I did it, but it was a very big deal.

For the rest of my days people may point and laugh at me as a Tranny, being considered a Lesbian is no big deal. It's laughable.

[Kimberly Kael]

I would love to hear more from you Kimberly because at the very least, I know you're real. (we have mutual friends) You have to admit that much of what passes for 'successful transitions' around here does kind of smell funny.

Most life stories tend to have at least some embellishment attached. Read any bio or attend a high school reunion and it's immediately evident, but normally it just amounts to a little harmless self-promotion. Here it is actively dangerous to mislead people on what is realistic so I understand and respect a degree of caution. Especially given the "on the Internet nobody knows you're a dog" aspect. The whole cloth invention cases can and should be called out when they become obvious.

I know I'm not here as regularly as I'd like but I'll try to keep an eye on this thread and would be happy to talk about any aspect that's particularly unusual in your eyes. I do think there was value in my seeing that it was likely I'd eventually feel I had no other choice and making a conscious decision to act before I had to. In part it meant that I could be more rational about it than I might be otherwise. I could take a slower pace, which helped my marriage immeasurably compared to some I have seen disintegrate when the gender dam finally burst and a six-month surgeries included transition ensued.

I should also acknowledge that I started from a point of significant privilege. I had a reasonable genetic draw as a starting point. My wife knew I had a strong feminine inclination before we married and managed to remain supportive despite the challenges we went through as a couple. My career is in a field where people have historically had success transitioning. I have good social skills and I'm a relatively gifted communicator which helped when it came time to get the message out. Last but certainly not least I had a solid economic foundation. I'm not earning at the same level I once did, but I'm in no position to complain.

None of that means it was easy, just that I had the right tools to navigate the minefield with a cautious, methodical approach once I convinced myself I wasn't entirely insane.

[Marcelle]

Hi GM,

I am somewhat reticent to post on this part of the forum because I am not TS and my experiences are completely different from those who have or are transitioning. So if any take offence, it is not meant that way but to be honest, given my personal circumstances, I really don't know where I fit anymore on this broad spectrum. Someone once used the term "tranny grenade" and given my current work environment, it seemed apropos to utilize that phrase to describe my own understanding of "to transition or not". I describe myself as "gender fluid" in the sense that some days I identify as a man and others I identify as a woman. On the days I identify as a woman (and these can stretch into several - currently so), I live the entire day as a woman including going to work, doing everyday things and in the evening with my wife (have been doing so for the last 3 days). So in a way I have the "tranny grenade" in my hand to some extent have pulled the pin. Funny thing about grenades though, until you release the lever, it won't arm so I have a firm grasp on the lever waiting to throw.

I will admit there are days where the necessity to present as a woman is so strong that to not do so would leave me emotionally crippled but then again there are days where the thought of presenting as a woman holds not compulsion whatsoever. I don't mix dress and I am either man or woman but never a mixture of both (presentation wise as I am the same person irrespective of how I am dressed). Will I ever transition? To be honest, I can't say I will or will not. I do know that I have no issues with any of my male physiology (with the exception of facial and body hair) and I do like my guy side and am not quite ready to bury him.

So as to the OPs question, to transition or not. IMHO I think each person will know when they have to transition as it will be unbearable to not do so and live life as you need to. As for me . . . back to the grenade analogy . . . funny thing about levers, you can pull the pin and hold the lever down but on those rare occasions, you could accidently trip the charge and even holding the lever down will not prevent the grenade from going off. So I guess I am in a hold pattern . . . still waiting to throw or not.


Cheers

Isha

[becky77]

I describe myself as "gender fluid" in the sense that some days I identify as a man and others I identify as a woman. On the days I identify as a woman (and these can stretch into several - currently so), I live the entire day as a woman including going to work, doing everyday things and in the evening with my wife (have been doing so for the last 3 days).

How do work colleagues deal with you one day as a man another as a woman?

[stefan37]

Isha can answer that. But from my experience I would say confusing. That said given time it will end in anon-issue. To do what Isha if doing takes a willingness to own what you're doing. Make no excuses. This is who I am. I give her a lot of credit.

Isha if you can make it through life, clutching that lever. More power to you. It's difficult to do what what you are doing and keep it together. I know. I did it for 3 years. Those I worked with thought I was a little off. And it became very confusing to those close to me. I hope you go through the rest of your life without needing to transition. But if you do approach it with the same conviction you are using to live in the middle and you'll come out of it ok.

[PretzelGirl]

As with everything we experience in life, one’s experience is unique and different from all others. Some of us felt compelled to transition because the alternative was unbearable, and for others it was simply the logical decision as the arc of their lives eventually brought them to a clearer view of their own gender identity.

Thank you Michelle. I don't think I had been able to put it in the best terms before, but my transition was within the arc of my life. Hiding, self-discovery, assessment, transition. No letting go of the grenade that Isha refers to but a somewhat even flow with a single moment where a blood test had me make the final call.

I like to always use inclusive language. Exclusion causes more stress and more difficulties for all and also makes it harder to present stories that are understandable to the general public that is sometimes trying to be educated. One thing I like to say is that we all have our own trans identity and our own trans story. So everyone is not comparable to next person. Similar elements, maybe. But not the same.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

If you live according to your nature...whether bigender, cd, tg, ts, orwhatever....the gender dysphoria will go away completely..

if you don't, it won't.

the further away from your nature you live, the worse your discomfort... transsexuals that live as men are the extreme...and they take the most extreme measures...

if you are transsexual and you don't take extreme measures, it doesnt mean you aren't transsexual, it means you suffer...and unfortunately the overwhelming anecdotal evidence is it only gets worse and results in a poor quality of life...i just ran into another gal yesterday...63 years old...i met her 25 years ago it turns out at a renaissance meeting and she told me among other things when her marriage broke up 3 years ago it was because she couldnt stand the lying anymore....this is just an all too common stark reality for too many people..

If Isha is not transsexual, and she is gender fluid, and she lives as a gender fluid person, then i'd expect her discomfort to go away and whatever issues she deals with (confusion, looks,etc) are just part of her going forward with her best strategy for her best quality of life..its a best case scenario for her, just like its a best case scenario for a transsexual to transition successfully..

[Nigella]

This is an interesting thread and has had some thought provoking posts :)

One point that some members seem to get confused on is Transexual = Transition, this is simply not true. This fact is born out by those "late" transitioners, those who have begun to cross the divide between birth gender and "known" gender later on in life. They have always been transexual and that is more often than not confirmed when therapy is undertaken.

If the belief that Transexual = Transition were true, there simply would be no late transitioners. I was able to live a life as a man for the majority of my life, without the hinderance of GD rearing its ugly head and dampening my parade.

What the catalyst was for GD to smack me in the face was, I don't know, but once it did, then I HAD to transition, my previous coping mechanisms failed to control my rising anxieties. During my councelling sessions, it was highlighted that I had been Transexual all my life, the clues were there, I was a typical "primary" transexual as was described by my psychiatrist, if they agreed that transition, with all its changes was progressed, I would not feel the need to "revert" to my birth gender.

For those that can live a dual gender life and identify as transexual, my hat is off to you, your coping mechanisms must be strong, just don't be surprised if, by chance, you wake up one morning and realise, YOU HAVE TO TRANSITION.

[Brooklyn]

Our sex-obsessed culture places a lot of value on being young, especially for women, but transition turns your life upside down at any age. Many of the younger trans-women I’ve met have been disowned, homeless, assaulted, and often wind up with substance abuse issues. They have also risked their entire adulthood - not just half of it. So I must respect that - even though the internet was not around for me in the 1980’s.

Also, hopefully everyone browsing here knows, but it is critical not to confuse an attraction to (young) women with the need to transition. The transsexuals I know are not a club of former CDers. I sometimes wonder how many people in this forum have friends who are trans-men, for example? Every time I read “If only I was 20...”, it just strikes me that kind of statement has a lot to do with wanting to be prime reproductive age again, and less to do with being your authentic self, unless you’re talking about some hair loss and wrinkles.


During my councelling sessions, it was highlighted that I had been Transexual all my life, the clues were there, I was a typical "primary" transexual as was described by my psychiatrist, if they agreed that transition, with all its changes was progressed, I would not feel the need to "revert" to my birth gender.



Whoa… Is there a fundamental difference between “primary” (early) transexuals and late transitioners, who I assume are “secondary"? Or is that just what your doctors think? Sorry to touch the third rail here...

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i agree ashley..."if only....." is a common statement that needs a big grain of salt...its so easy to type a message about wishes...

[Nigella]

Ashley

The word primary was used to describe my state of TS, as I said they were sure that I would not want to "detransition". Obviously they never discussed other transsexuals in their care, therefore it was aimed at me and me alone. I think you may have got hold of the wrong end on this one.

[Badtranny]

I am somewhat reticent to post on this part of the forum because I am not TS and my experiences are completely different from those who have or are transitioning. So if any take offence, it is not meant that way but to be honest, given my personal circumstances, I really don't know where I fit anymore on this broad spectrum.

It's soooo funny to me that of all the people who openly admit they aren't transitioning, YOU are the most respectful of us, AND one of the very few self identified "middle pathers" that are 100% out of the closet. You can't live a more authentic life than you are, and I think that's all us bitchy TS queens really care about anyway. There should be no closets in the TS section.

It's my own fault that I'm apparently misunderstood, but I just want people to be real here that's all.


Someone once used the term "tranny grenade"

That someone was me, and the proper use of the term is Tranny Grenade(tm)

lol ;-)

[Marcelle]

How do work colleagues deal with you one day as a man another as a woman?

Hi Becky,

This was my first full week working in a military environment as a woman although I did spend one day as a male (first day) as I had to get a building pass with me as a man (I already have my building pass with me as a woman). Prior to starting work, there was an education briefing for the building and particularly my section so people knew and discussion was centered on how to act around me (normally was the over-riding message) and how to address me. As a senior officer that was an issue as many may struggle with "Ma'am vice Sir" so I indicated that Major G or just Major would be fine and if they knew me personally Marcelle vice Marcel (luckily my name works in both genders just different spelling). The last four days was a bit surreal and some people struggled (no eye contact, visible discomfort) but for the most part that is starting to dissipate - as Stefan indicated it is becoming a non-issue as more people get used to it . . . still a long road but people have become consistent with Ma'am or Madame (French folks - not madame as in night :)).


Isha if you can make it through life, clutching that lever. More power to you. It's difficult to do what what you are doing and keep it together. I know. I did it for 3 years. Those I worked with thought I was a little off. And it became very confusing to those close to me. I hope you go through the rest of your life without needing to transition. But if you do approach it with the same conviction you are using to live in the middle and you'll come out of it ok.

It can be a difficult ride at times for sure and while the lever is firmly grasped, there is part of me wondering if I didn't manage to trip the fuse and it is slowly burning. I guess only time will tell.


. . . That someone was me, and the proper use of the term is Tranny Grenade(tm) lol ;-)

LOL Melissa . . . my wife being an intellectual properties agent you think I would not have missed the (tm) . . . so to correct . . . Tranny Grenade(tm) ;)

Cheers

Isha

[Tina_gm]

Thank you all very much for your responses. As I see it from what has been said, if you don't need to, or have to, is still good advice, at least for people like me who are approaching mid life. I am not contemplating transition, but I do wonder if I was 20 at this time, felt as I do now and did not have any life commitment and decided to be completely open or authentic as is often said, what I would do.

I don't know that I would. I don't have total mind and body GD. I seem to be more envious of women, rather than an intense dislike of myself. Especially when it comes to the anatomy. I don't hate the parts. In fact I enjoy their function. So, for me HRT is also off the table. It's just not enough for me to give up. So, I don't need to, or have to.

The question is not so much for myself, now but of those who are younger and in today's world. Does someone need to walk through such a difficult road in life, subject themselves to so much pain and anquish? Will it be perhaps that those today will be able to live a better quality of life? Transition or not, today, or hopefully in the near future people can live a better life, a more authentic life for much more of their life. Regardless of where I would be or would have gone, that would hold true for me.

[Claire Cook]

Hi GM,

I'm in your camp here. I'm finding that it is possible to do both my male and female things. I'm past 70 and quite content being a Golden Girl when I want (and a Golden Guy when I want?). Perhaps you and I (and obviously others) are not far along enough along on the TG spectrum to want to transition, and there is certainly nothing wrong with that. (Indeed, as Paula and others have made clear, it's not a route to go through unless one really has to.) We don't have to.

[Angela Campbell]

I have to side with the "unless you have to" folks. My transition was a very successful and relatively smooth one, and yet still very difficult. It is a permanent and life changing thing. You cannot undo many aspects and will live with the decision for the rest of your life.

It's very fulfilling in many cases if it was the right decision, but if not it can be devastating.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

well said...

in fact even if its the "right" decision it can be devastating if it does not go well through no ones fault or worse if it was poorly planned and executed..

[Michelle.M]

Whoa… Is there a fundamental difference between “primary” (early) transexuals and late transitioners, who I assume are “secondary"? Or is that just what your doctors think? Sorry to touch the third rail here...

We should probably jump right to a new thread with that, or this one will get derailed something fierce. That "primary / secondary" thing has the influence of Ray Blanchard all over it. Anne Vitale gives an excellent explanation for the history and use of those terms.

http://www.avitale.com/PrimarySecondary.htm

[Marleena]

Since questions came up about late transitioners and middle-pathers I though I'd let Anne Vital (renowned gender therapist) answer that below from a question she received. My earlier post about those that have to transition still stands though.


4. What happens to those intensely dysphoric people who do not transition? How do they cope? I contemplate never transitioning and thus enabling me to make that commitment to my wife and family. How on earth can I do that and have a happy life without this persistent voice going around and around in my head?

When people wait until they are in mid life and have established a career and family before attending to their gender dysphoria the situation becomes almost impossible to resolve without disrupting the lives of loved ones. The sooner people with gender dysphoria understand that their condition is chronic, the easier the solution becomes. Gender variant people can no more change their gender variant identity then those who fit the more common male/female gender binary. I know all of that doesn't answer the question directly but there are certain truths in life that can not be denied. Being gender variant is one of them.

Of course, it is perfectly possible to be gender dysphoric and NOT transition. Gender dysphoria is not new. There is evidence of it dating all the way back to the beginning of recorded history. Since there was no treatment for it then, gender dysphoric people did the best they could to make their lives work and many societies accommodated them. (see http://www.avitale.com/historicalaccount.htm).

The only real solution is to make every effort possible to get family members to understand the seriousness of the problem. Seeing a good family therapist that is knowledgeable in these matters is a good place to start. I have also found that by referring couples to groups of other couples where there is a gender variant partner also helps.

[cheryl reeves]

some of us who chose to not transition have various ways of finding a coping mechinism to keep us somewhat balanced and on track..

[Tina_gm]

Marleena, a lot of what you posted is sort of where I am coming from in this thread. For whatever reason, those of us who held in our gender issues or identity for decades and built an entire life and family, then have to choose which pain to deal with. Perhaps in the case of several here who have transitioned or are in the process of it later in life (40+) y/o the pain of dealing with such a drastic life altering path is less severe than staying as they are, or were. In these cases, the choice was not really a choice. In order to have any type of life at all, transition is a must. I think basically, many of the people here who have gone through this finally convinced themselves that they could not undo the femininity, or that of identifying as a woman. Or realized after so long that life would always be a misery without transitioning.

Granted, today there is a slightly better acceptance of being TG. Especially among the younger generation. More and more parents are now accepting their children who are wishing to live authentically. What would make them any different than of a mid life transitioner? Many here at the time attempted to choose the path of their birth gender. For someone say 20, without as much society pressure as there was, and without consideration of a decades long career, a partner who they have been with for decades. Kids in school, maybe college (and the need for money to allow them to continue) Life long friends etc etc. Potentially giving up most or all of that, is a clear indication of having to. But, for the younger TG, with little to give up in life, they could look at life as thinking, I am better off as a woman, more like one, so my quality of life is simply better. It would not really be a true having to for some, just a better way of living. They will end up saving themselves countless years of discomfort if not misery. Eventually, the ability to maintain a life through the discomfort and misery will diminish until it is no longer something that can be dealt with. I believe that is what many later in life transitioners go through. They just run out of the ability to live life as the wrong gender.

I would definitely agree that someone in mid life should have to in order to do so. Otherwise I believe the transition would go horribly. I would think that the losses would be overwhelming if it wasn't a have to situation. Or that they would never be certain they were doing or did the right thing.

[Rianna Humble]

I would take issue with the idea of a transitioner finally convincing themself of anything other than the futility of continuing to fight the need to live an authentic life.

If you take the time to read what is written in these forums over and over and over again about transitioning when you need to (need not have) you will understand that the need is not a function of age, so in that sense there is no difference between someone of 18 years of age who needs to transition and someone of 54 years of age who needs to transition.

[Michelle.M]

I would take issue with the idea of a transitioner finally convincing themself of anything other than the futility of continuing to fight the need to live an authentic life.

Futile, perhaps, but people learn to live with all sorts of conditions without going through otherwise accepted or even prescribed interventions.

There are all sorts of reasons why people who are gender dysphoric do not transition, just as there are all sorts of reasons why people transition partially, surgically, non-surgically, or exhibit a gender non-specific presentation.

As always, one size does not fit all.

[Tina_gm]

Rianna, I think society is playing a large part of all of this. Take gigi gorgeous, who was once known as gregory gorgeous. 30 years ago, then gregory never would have been as out as he was about being gay, or his need for dressing. If you haven't heard of her, she is a very public mtf, who is or has undergone transition. Her transition was hardly a surprise I am sure. But many decades ago, then gregory would have likely hid themselves, and their gender and sexuality from the public. Would have likely portrayed a straight male and gotten married, had kids, basically created a life of a "normal" man. Eventually the woman inside would have won out.

Today, and being from Canada, where all of this is much more accepted anyway, gigi never went through what so many here have and suffered countless years not being their authentic selves. Of course, not all knew it when they were younger, but that again is a product of society. Had it not been for such pressure from society to conform to the standard male/female divide Many here would have who didn't know would have known, far sooner.

I am certain gigi felt the need to transition just like anyone else who transitions, however, having seen any of her videos, especially the earlier ones on youtube, She definitely has not gone through what so many here in midlife have had to. Her life prior to transtion was still far more authentic and probably livable then what most mid life transitioners have had to go through.

[Marleena]

Marleena, a lot of what you posted is sort of where I am coming from in this thread. For whatever reason, those of us who held in our gender issues or identity for decades and built an entire life and family, then have to choose which pain to deal with. Perhaps in the case of several here who have transitioned or are in the process of it later in life (40+) y/o the pain of dealing with such a drastic life altering path is less severe than staying as they are, or were. In these cases, the choice was not really a choice. In order to have any type of life at all, transition is a must.


I agree totally with that, for most TS people it is a must to transition at some point and that is clearly shown throughout the posts made here in this section. I'm not anti-transition at all. I do however caution people that it can be very difficult. Every situation is different and must be done in the hopes of a good outcome which is where a good gender therapist comes in. Like I said I envy those that do transition. I also understand some cannot or will not transition or hold off as long as possible for various reasons.

[DebbieL]

I agree totally with that, for most TS people it is a must to transition at some point and that is clearly shown throughout the posts made here in this section. I'm not anti-transition at all. I do however caution people that it can be very difficult. Every situation is different and must be done in the hopes of a good outcome which is where a good gender therapist comes in. Like I said I envy those that do transition. I also understand some cannot or will not transition or hold off as long as possible for various reasons.

I have written two books about what happens when someone who is intensely transgendered - a 5 or 6 on the Benjamin scale - is prevented from transitioning.

Many of us have been FORCED to be men for years, even decades. But most of us who are more severely transgender have a really hard time with it. It's as hard for us to remember not to giggle, or cry, or cross our legs at the ankles or dozens of other feminine motions and interactions - as it would be for a cis-gender alpha male to try and learn to cross his legs properly and do the hundreds of other feminine things we aren't even aware of.

The form of the persecution depends on our age. In Elementary school or grade school, we get targeting because we are "Sissies". In Jr High and early high school we get targeted because they assume that we are homosexual - often because we are feminine and they see it as effeminate. A normal cis-gender alpha male doesn't understand the subtle differences between being a man who wants another man, and a transgender woman who wants a man to treat her as a woman, or even wants a woman to treat her as a woman. When people would ask me if I was gay, I would say "Yes, I'm a lesbian". Only the women who ACTUALLY went to bed with me realized that I was telling the truth.

Some of the barriers to transition that I have personally experienced include:
- Doctors and therapists saying "It's just a phase, he'll outgrow it"
- We can treat that with therapy (shock, torture, lobotomy, drugs...) - he'll just be a zombie
- If you sell your house, you will have enough to pay for most of the procedures (but not all)
- It's illegal to do that in this state.
- You'll never fall in love
- You'll never be able to have children
- You'll never see your kids again
- You will lose your job and be black-listed.
- If anyone finds out, they will kill you
- Your family won't accept you
- My family won't accept you
- You won't have any friends.
- If you go to prison you'll get raped every day.
- You'll have to move to another city
- You'll have to move to another state
- You'll have to move to another country
- Even after you transition - you'll still be an ugly guy in a dress


Of course, those of us who have actually transitioned have discovered that nearly ALL of that was nonsense being spouted by people who were either totally ignorant, horribly misinformed, or decided that pro-transgender theories such as Dr Benjamin - were hogwash.

Would you go to your dentist for legal advice?
Would you go to your lawyer for heart surgery?

Yet we too often go to misguided or misinformed guides, coaches, doctors, or counselors who don't know what they are talking about when treating Gender Dysphoria.

[Tina_gm]

Marleena, a good point about various reasons why some may wish to transition but don't. Typically, those reasons are a life that has been created. A wife, kids, home, career..... Things almost all 19 or 20 year olds do not have. 30 years ago, there was more society issues than there is today, so even those who were that age 30 years ago, they were or would have been much more considered outcast, unemployable to just about everywhere. Most of their peers would not accept them as friends or potential partners. While society is still far from totally accepting, it is different today for those just entering adulthood. So, those who are just becoming adults do not have a lot of hills to climb, or not nearly as much to consider other than themselves when it comes to transition. Without all of the barriers, the feeling of having to would be harder to truly be felt.

For those of us who have a strong feminine identity, but yet those barriers I mention make us decide not to transition of any real extent, then the logic is that we are not TS. I am not going to argue that. It is a fine way to determine what makes someone TS, that the regular life situations keep someone from making drastic gender changes in their life. But, remove those barriers, and the decisions might be different.

[stefan37]

As long as you have a GD comfort level that can be mitigated and still have quality of life. Then you can make that decision to transition or not. The thing about GD is. It is controllable until it's not. At that point no matter what your circumstances. Living authentically will be the only way to supress GD to an extent and have any quality of life.
It's an important point and why we are so hard on those that insist they are TS. But can make a conscious choice not to pursue transition because of external influences such as kids, marriage, work etc. It's not that we are elite, it think we are better. It's the fact our GD could only be mitigated by transitioning.
I would trade this entire experience to have been born male not ever having issues with my identity.

[Marleena]

Marleena, a good point about various reasons why some may wish to transition but don't. Typically, those reasons are a life that has been created. A wife, kids, home, career..... Things almost all 19 or 20 year olds do not have. 30 years ago, there was more society issues than there is today, so even those who were that age 30 years ago, they were or would have been much more considered outcast, unemployable to just about everywhere. Most of their peers would not accept them as friends or potential partners. While society is still far from totally accepting, it is different today for those just entering adulthood. .

No question the best time to transition is before puberty of course. Times are changing for the better and the younger ones are able to find and get help that us older people couldn't find.

As far as who is TS or not is a topic I wish to avoid like the plague. People who I thought weren't turned out to be TS or are at least transitioning.

I believe I'm TS as I identify as female but I'm trying just the HRT route for now. It is working out okay but I do have bad days where I just want to give up. So it might only be temporary relief and I was warned. Right now I have a "perfect storm" going on where transition would be a mistake for me and my family both. I will never accept that I'm a man though. There is an undercurrent in the TS community where if you don't transition you get the "you're not like me" comments or you get shunned so you need to be ready for it. I just had to do something to get the GD under control.

Stefan (above) and some others and myself have said we rather be Cis-anything rather than go through this crap.

Oh... as far as having more invested in your life as an older person, for sure, Caitlyn Jenner (as an example) decided to transition only after her daughters were old enough to take care of themselves. Many of us put off for long as possible dealing with ourselves. Of course things just get messier.

[Tina_gm]

I continue to be intriqued by the what if.... when I was 20 some 30 years ago, and I rather than fight my femininity, decided to just completely let go and let it go where ever it goes. I still cannot say for certain where that place is. For only myself, the sexual aspect (as male) would be something I may likely not give up. That would also keep me from going the HRT route. So, I am thinking the most likely scenario is living most or full time but without HRT or GRS... but then who knows.... because once living full time I might change my mind on that?? The feminizing effects of HRT with very young adults seems to be stronger than of someone my age. If I was to live full time, I would want to be not seen as just some man in a dress, so the whole thing can make my head spin.

Right now, my only serious GD seems to be body hair, which I shave. Other than that, I do not suffer much from it. I seem to feel more of an envy of women rather than a hatred of myself as a man. So, I could very well be just a CDer with a strong feminine aspect, and I am fine with that, if that is really where I am, which I have not really felt all that much different in the 2 and a half years since I began to come to grips with all this. My only difference is I am seeing that I am more feminine than I originally thought, and that I do now feel it to be harder often to conceal my femininity now that I have accepted it.

I do wonder a lot lately though, without any barriers, where would this all take me.... I do know that I could live as a woman, and I think in general, life might be easier for me. I do not see it as a necessity though. So, transition, in some form, perhaps not fully with GRS, or even that who knows.... it would not be something I have to do but it could possibly make my life easier to live.....

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Intrigued??
you don't resonate as a transsexual
of course i am not a mind reader, its just an educated guess...

if you are a transsexual

every moment you spend mulling and fantasizing and wondering is a another squeeze of the towel...and the water drips...and then one day.... no more water... at that point you are F$$$'d

stop squeezing the towel....

[Tina_gm]

Kaityn, that is sort of the point I guess. I do not consider myself TS. I do consider myself to be TG though, I do feel a real feminine presence that goes beyond dressing. Dual gendered perhaps. I do feel that the feminine aspects of me are stronger than the masculine aspects. Overall I seem to be more comfortable when it comes to feminine aspects. Often on the CD forum, many ask tips on how to act more feminine. All of the tips and subjects seem very natural to me. If anything, I could use tips on how to conceal it lol.

At the same time, I do not feel a need to transition. I do not hate my male anatomy, and very much enjoy sex as a man. I do not dress for sexual reasons, it is all a relaxing comfortable experience for me really. I do feel that if I was a woman, or lived as one and was accepted fully as one, my life would likely be easier, or more comfortable. To do so, to transition now would cause me more distress than what I feel not being a woman.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

makes sense and it sounds like you are in apretty good place

[Badtranny]

I do feel that if I was a woman, or lived as one and was accepted fully as one, my life would likely be easier, or more comfortable.

There is NOTHING about transition that is easier or more comfortable than just being a dude who who has some gender issues.

[Dianne S]

Melissa

Really? If that's the case, then why transition?

I find I'm much more comfortable than before.

[Badtranny]

Really? If that's the case, then why transition?

Freedom. I'd prefer to derail my old life for the privilege of being free to be me. No more closets no more secrets.

Everybody has a different experience, but for me, I wouldn't use 'comfortable' as a descriptor of my transition so far.

[emma5410]

Melissa

Amen to that. If you can find some way of being happy without stepping off the cliff then do it because the alternative is very tough

[Kaitlyn Michele]

comfort can be a function of circumstances that aren't exactly related to transition..

being comfortable in your skin and in your freedom doesnt mean you get a comfortable existence ...

[stefan37]

A lot of what is written here by those that have lived it sometimes comes across as superiority or is viewed as elitism. In reality it is a learned experience.
The beginning year if transition is a very heady one. There is the sense of liberation. Finally getting to live your identity. You want to tell the entire world. Many still live part-time. There is acceptance and rejection. Then you legally changed your name and gender in legal documents. You start to really come out to the world as your authentic self. Maybe you've had some surgical procedures to help with the external presentation. You feel more confident and experience some comfort. Comfort that you are no longer hiding.

But there is still discomfort. Discomfort that society doesn't accurately reflect your female identity back. Yeah they are respectful, but they really don't think of you as female. There is something off. ( I'm not speaking to casual encounters at a store or restaurant). I'm speaking about interacting with Cis individuals in professional, of social organizations. The realization that they are respectful and accepting. But still don't truly believe your female. You are comfortable with who you are. There is discomfort because you are not fully embraced as the woman you feel to be.
Happiness is another relative feeling. I get that alot. You must be happier now. Well yeah. I am happy I get the freedom to show my identity. But there is tremendous sadness. Blowing up my 31 year marriage and throwing my ex wife's life in disarray. Watching her deal with her husband's transition to female and watching the sadness she experiences. Powerless to help. Depriving my daughter the opportunity to have her dad walk her down the aisle at her wedding and having that first dance. Yeah I probably will have that opportunity, but the experience for her will not be same. Nor will that be same for her mother or family. It will be different.

I accept who I am and the BS it entails. It's great to allow my identity the freedom to show the world who I am. To never again hide my identity. But I would absolutely trade it in a heartbeat to be a cis identified male with zero identity issues. Or even if I could still live as I did for many years as a male with some gender issues that could be mitigated with part time expression.
Transition is hard. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I'm also finding that 2 years full-time. It is harder. Mainly because you feel you should be unequivocally accepted as female. But it doesn't always happen that way.

I may find after Srs. It becomes more difficult. Surgical complications, pain and dealing with now what. So much emphasis and energy focused on the physical aspect and shared on the social aspect. Now all energy will need to focused on the social acclimation and integration.

[Marleena]

That's a great post Stefan, and pretty much sums up the issues to be faced.

I was regretting posting in this thread until another member pointed out to me that I may have helped the OP obtain clarity on their own gender issues.

Now if one is truly TS and does not transition at some point -->(Melissa quote) "you're in for a whole lot of hurt".

[Tina_gm]

Hi again, just for clarification. I am not thinking or suggesting that the process of transition would ever be a comfortable one. I do wonder at times if I was born a woman, would my life be more comfortable. The process to become one, and the consequences are too much for me to go through. That would strongly suggest I am not ts, and I don't consider myself ts anyway.

Also, CDERS do still go through much frustration from their own gender isdues. I am never suggesting as much as ts women, but anyone with gender issues has got a tough road for them.

Times are changing, and I wonder if perhaps the ways of thinking about transition should be changing as well.

[stefan37]

Your life and life experiences would be different. No guarantee that it would be more comfortable. Also your perspective is one from living with GD. If you were born Cis female with zero GD issues. Your life may have actually been more challenging and you most likely would have other issues.

Grass is always greener until you get there. Then it's as brown and shriveled from that you left.

[Rachel Smith]

But there is still discomfort. Discomfort that society doesn't accurately reflect your female identity back. Yeah they are respectful, but they really don't think of you as female. There is something off. ( I'm not speaking to casual encounters at a store or restaurant). I'm speaking about interacting with Cis individuals in professional, of social organizations. The realization that they are respectful and accepting. But still don't truly believe your female. You are comfortable with who you are. There is discomfort because you are not fully embraced as the woman you feel to be.
Happiness is another relative feeling. I get that alot. You must be happier now. Well yeah. I am happy I get the freedom to show my identity. But there is tremendous sadness. Blowing up my 31 year marriage and throwing my ex wife's life in disarray. Watching her deal with her husband's transition to female and watching the sadness she experiences. Powerless to help. Depriving my daughter the opportunity to have her dad walk her down the aisle at her wedding and having that first dance. Yeah I probably will have that opportunity, but the experience for her will not be same. Nor will that be same for her mother or family. It will be different.

I accept who I am and the BS it entails. It's great to allow my identity the freedom to show the world who I am. To never again hide my identity. But I would absolutely trade it in a heartbeat to be a cis identified male with zero identity issues. Or even if I could still live as I did for many years as a male with some gender issues that could be mitigated with part time expression.
Transition is hard. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I'm also finding that 2 years full-time. It is harder. Mainly because you feel you should be unequivocally accepted as female. But it doesn't always happen that way.

Stefan I made a post in my journal today but you said it much better then I. After 2 1/2 years full-time I feel I will never be more then a male with breasts. This is a hard realization to come to grips with and that is a struggle more then the weight gain I spoke of in my journal. I just wanted to thank you for expressing so precisely what I could not. It is also a comfort to know I am not the only one with these feelings.

Thank you
Rachel

[Dianne S]

I wouldn't use 'comfortable' as a descriptor of my transition so far.

Hmm. I might, actually. I feel more comfortable in my own skin, for sure. And I have a supportive family and am reconnecting with old friends from way back. It's been a very positive experience thus far. Admittedly, I'm not very far into it, having started my transition about 19 months ago and only been full-time for about 4 months. So maybe I'm in for a rude awakening... who knows?

[Tina_gm]

We seem to be getting into a discussion about how hard transition can be, granted, I have no doubt from what any of you say that it is incredibly hard. As Stefan said, how hard it is after a 31 year marriage, the dissaray, the daughter who will not have the father figure she had all her life. That IS part of what makes transition so hard I would think. Remove all those types of issues..... But how do people really know they have to transition without going through all that? Sure, some will know they are female identified. But is it just better that they transition at a young age, and not go through the disruption of decades of life and marriage or other partnerships? Will people, at a younger age be more content with not going through a full transition, GRS and all? I sometimes wonder, with acceptance now gaining, if people were to accept someone without so much hatred and rejection, someone living as a woman, but not becoming one fully, would they still go through a full transition? Is it easier to go through a full transition with the way society is today rather than just having people accept them as living as a woman, without physically becoming one? I am sure some will still have enough GD that they will gladly rid themselves of all male anatomy. But will it be the same percentage in say 10 years from now as acceptance of transgender grows? Just some thoughts to knock around here.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

its just speculating and wishing.... you cant go back...most of us didn't consider transition an option...so we survived...and tried to live as males..

frankly we are the proof of concept...

if you can live as a male, that's what you should do...otherwise do something else... heh pretty simple

to me there is one question... do you want to feel like you've lived a life?? (YOUR LIFE)....yes or no?? if you are a woman and live it out as a man then its no...
if you can feel like you are living your life, honestly and authentically as a man, then obviously you are not a woman....

the problem is the reality of facing such a huge existential question and dealing with it.

in the future its likely to be easier on people but that doesn't help me right now...

[stefan37]

Regardless of his I felt I might be transsexual. I denied it. I identified as a crossdresser. Transition was so off the radar. There could be no way I would transition. I knew even exploring that option would cause distress with the wife. I never even heard of GD. I had that inner urge to feminize and project that. I developed anxiety and felt I was on a runaway train. I learned in therapy and on this forum I could lose it all. But it got to the point I was going thru the motions and life had no meaning. I had a great family, loving wife, solid marriage. Good business and able to make a living. None of that mattered. I needed to see if estrogen would help. 3 days on estrogen and the anxiety was gone. That confirmed to me estrogen was what my brain and body needed. The rest is history. I'm sure my story is similar to many others that needed to transition.

[Badtranny]

it's a good question Gendermutt and something I've given a lot of thought to.

The funny thing about a gender transition is how absurdly simple it is to conceive of once you accepted who you are. Who am I? Well since you asked;

I am someone who has identified as something else for as long as I can remember. I thought that something else was gay until I tried being openly gay, and realized I might be wrong. When I finally found out what my real issue was, I was terrified and resolute that I was NOT going to transition. All it took was a near death experience for me to open my eyes to the life I had, instead of the life I wanted. I didn't want to be this way. What way is that? Well I'm glad you asked;

I am someone who wants to act exactly the way I feel without people thinking that I'm supposed to act some other way. As it turns out, I've always liked feminine things and expressed myself in a feminine manner. No I'm not an overly femmy person, and I don't care for overtly femmy things, but for the most part everything about me was decidedly not masculine. I love women emotionally but being friends with a woman was not possible due to normal sexual chemistry and my testosterone fueled love muscle. My affection for women was forever being misconstrued by them AND me. I loved doing things with the guys sometimes but I resented being ONE of the guys. Anyhoo, coming out as trans allowed me to just be myself and no longer have to police my mannerisms, or my interests, or my language. I tried the gender queer thing but I found that I really didn't like being perceived as a man. My transition was kind of the last thing I tried and sure enough, the personality issues that plagued me my whole life were mostly resolved by the freedom to express myself openly, everywhere, every day.

What if I would have been allowed or encouraged to just be myself as a kid? I guess we'll never know.

[STACY B]

Melissa you got it all right,, We will never know what would have been ? An same as you I hated to be one of the boys sober,, I could be the Best Good Old Boy while intoxicated ,, Some say they couldn't drink a lot before for fear of what they would say or do,,lol,,, Hell I have a fix for that,, Stay drunk,, I did and loved it and it kept everyone away from me for long time. Not all the way but never let anyone get to close.

I tried to STOP this Madness trust me I did. But nothing on earth could help me, I tried it all and nothing worked, SO GUESS WHAT? Yep Transition time,, How do you do it? When do you do it ? When do you do anything else,, How do you do anything else? Why do you do anything else? Hell I don't know,, Maybe they will write a Book on it and tell us the correct way with instructions and Call it The Transition Bible ?

I ma going to wing it,, Let the HRT do it's thing an hope that the GD stays at Bay? Hey how bad came it be? So far so good in my book, I even asked melissa some stuff when I met her an she told me and my SO hell she didn't understand this Crap no more than I did,,,lol,,,,

So believe it or not it made me feel better if I am doing it an no one really knows how,, How can I be doing it wrong? Everything has a Perk I guess.

[Badtranny]

Everything has a Perk I guess.

That's the ONLY thing you consider a perk? What about my damn sparkling personality!

[Jorja]

You might want to add a few diamonds in there, Melissa.;)

[sarahcsc]

Too young and you're unsure or unable.

Too old and it's too late or it'll cause significant problems professionally and interpersonally.

Sounds like gist of the message?

[Rianna Humble]

Actually, Sarah, the gist of the message hasn't changed
Transition if you need to
Don't if you don't

[stefan37]

You are never too old. It doesn't always cause problems professionally. I know many that their careers thrived after transition. My business has thrived since starting transition. It's not easy. There are obstacles that were not there before. But not fighting an internal war every single day allows all that energy to get channeled into positive energy.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

no no no.. you are never too old or young... everybody is different.


the gist of the message is that you better be darn sure transition is for you..
you better work hard at it, and you better think it through....

young old or in between, you get to a point in your life where you realize that you must live authentically, and nothing else will do... then you take steps to live...


the prevarications, the fantasies, the excuses, the imponderables, and the lies all seem petty and empty to people that have reached this point in their lives because nothing matters except living your own life.
this is why sometimes there is a seeming chasm between people that have transitioned trying to explain why how and what they did to people that are confused, frightened and lost

and people that have not transitioned keep trying to define what it is, and trying to figure out what makes a person transition.. and they cant.

[Tina_gm]

Too young and you're unsure or unable.

Too old and it's too late or it'll cause significant problems professionally and interpersonally.

Sounds like gist of the message?

Sarah, you really do make a great point here. Wait until a full adult life has been established, then basically crumble it. (providing there was not any serious foreknowledge of this happening) How much will likely have to change along with the legal and physical gender. At a much younger age, without all of that which has been established, the transition would go so much easier (I didn't say easy) without so much of a life that has to be dismantled.

But then what if *OOPS* transition really wasn't the correct choice, maybe living more of a dual gender existence.... It seems that the only way to really know you cannot live the life of the gender you are born with is to go through hell trying to live it for a long period of time, suffering most or all of it.

[stefan37]

Exactly why transition should be approached cautiously. Especially the first year. Add long as you don't shout out to the world. "Hey I'm transitioning". It is easy to hide the effects of HRT, facial hair removal etc. By the time stuff starts to get noticeable you should have a pretty good idea if it's right or not.
When GD gets to the intensity where you need to transition. Fence sitting no longer is an option regardless of the damage transitioning can cause.

It's why it's said. " Don't transition unless you need to. And if you do. Don't let anything get in your way. "

Those that are sitting on the fence advocating not transitioning because of the damage or loss. Don't have that need to transition and should not. Other means need to be explored to mitigate and keep your dysphora in check.

[Dianne S]

But then what if *OOPS* transition really wasn't the correct choice

Then you detransition. Or you live a gender-fluid life, or whatever.

I strongly believe that there's no point in second-guessing yourself or regretting decisions you make. In life, everyone will make bad choices sometimes. You deal with them the best you can and move on. But refusing to make any decision at all (out of fear, second-guessing, whatever) is usually worse than any of the choices.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

you can talk and speculate about the downsides, shouldacoulda's and maybes all day long...

if you have to do it, none of that matters..

and despite all kinds of issues and problems more often than not, transition improves quality of life for transsexuals

[becky77]

If you're that unsure, the answer is obviously don't do it.

I would have done it in my teens but fear, crippling low confidence and a total lack of information kept me caged in my own secret hell. Also my parents then just wouldn't have tolerated it.
I simply didn't know stuff, I knew how I felt but with a lack of info, I just thought something was wrong with me, all outside influences tell you, you have to be this man.
Then I spent half a lifetime trying so hard to fit in I never looked into other options as there didn't appear to be another option.

That's changed, the info is readily available, support is there and society and media are more open to this and hopefully it will only get better.

There are a lot of young people that know, I met loads at the Gender clinic in London.
Their lives will be vastly improved by doing it early, you can see how the hormones and lack of testosterone has made a huge difference to their appearance and sadly it is appearance that really helps your integration easier.

Talking about parents, because I believe they really shape many of your early decisions.
My parents now especially my Mum has watched all sorts of program's and been influenced by modern media, they are way more open to people being different. This is key because changing attitudes makes it a bit easier for each coming generation.
My parents now have been very supportive, my parents when I was born in the seventies would not have been.

I do think it's better if your younger (now) but that depends on your upbringing and how sure you are.
I think the main point being made here is not about age, but about need.

[Starling]

...not fighting an internal war every single day allows all that energy to get channeled into positive segment.

Not sure what "segment" means here, but living a miserable double life squanders the spirit.

:) Lallie