Telling your partner - what are the odds of success?

[Sarah Louise]

Being in the closet, I always read with interest the 'should I tell or not' debates which usually come down to the same good advice that only you can make that choice and are best placed to know whether your SO will accept you or not.

However, I wonder statistically what is the likely reaction? Now I know that asking this question on this forum won't give the actual answer as the type of crossdresser that responds on this forum probably isn't representative of the actual population. Even so, I think it will be interesting to see what we all think.

My guess is that the odds are something like this:

Partner fully accepts 15%
Supportive but DADT 25%
Fairly neutral but DADT 25%
Disapproves but relationship continues 25%
Relationship ends 10%

What do you think?

[Teresa]

Sarah,
I can only comment from my own situation but I would say your figures are about right if you look at the attitude across the spectrum of people !
It may be interesting if the question was posed to members but I guess you'd have to treat TG and TS relationships differently . I will apologise if this has been done and dusted before !

Going back to your figures I would guess I fall into the 25% that disapproves but relationship continues but then that's only my assumption because I'm in a DADT situation but not supportive or neutral but more tolerates ! Sorry to add an extra sub-section !

[Donnagirl]

Sarah,

Can I suggest it is not a straight forward process. Whereas now I arguably have one of the most supportive spouses it was not always that way. My initial coming out was not planned well, not researched and did not provide her with the advice, comfort and support that was clearly required. I was in your bottom 25% staring down that final 10% with great fear...

It took well over a year, support from here (thanks FAB), contact locally with other wives, contact with other CD/TG/TS individuals and serious commitment on both our parts to learn, communicate and keep no secrets... We went slowly from being basically separated but under the same roof to a wonderfully rekindled relationship...

So it's not just a one off process, with a number of outcomes but a planned journey of highs and lows, sacrifice and struggle, learning and understanding. If the relationship strong at the outcome it can be made stronger. If there are already cracks and weaknesses, well, it might not survive the stress.

Never be forced into the decision, you need to pick the time and the place.... Research the mistakes others have made and learn from them. Read into the victories, copy what you think might work.

I really wish you luck... But always remember the outcome can vary from wonderful to catastrophic, and so much of up to you.

[pamela7]

Hi Sarah,

It's going to be timing, it might even be a gradual thing. When the gov is planning something (and they do), they let it out in dribs and drabs, not one big shock, cos that is how people assimilate and gradually change their acceptance; they don't even notice. So I think one big giant shock is really rough on the relationship, whereas "can we play dressing up" or "i fancy trying out those / your knickers" etc will come across as little shifts, and seem fun. I think the more its fun/game and the less its a serious "i must present as a woman" then the better it will go / be paced.

xxx Pamela

[Shelly Preston]

I would say a lot can depend on how you tell your partner.

The link in my signature has some good information.

Explaining against getting caught would seem to be better as you get to choose the time and the place.

Sadly I dont think we will ever know as some will be so secretive the wont even join a forum.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Sarah, That sounds like a crap shoot, You just have to roll the dice and see what happens.:daydreaming:

[Angela Marie]

There are many variations on this. My wife is supportive but does not go out with me. We shop for makeup and she will pick me up a nice outfit if she sees something she knows I like. I wish she would go out but I love and respect her wishes.

[Dianne S]

Also, I think the acceptance changes over time, even over a long time. Some partners might be initially OK with it, but as the years go by they get fed up. Overall, I think the chances of it working out well are not terribly good.

[Belle Cri]

I think such figures would impossible to really tabulate, but you present an experiential estimate of your own perception, and so therefore that has a fair amount of validity from the start in an expectational sense. I can't say that my figures would be significantly different, although our derivational bases might differ substantially.

Without assigning numbers (they can often obscure as much as reflect), I think it is very safe to say that a fully accepting partner is well outside the standard deviation, so if you have one, stick to that like glue because the odds of a second coming along are slim indeed.

[Krisi]

Every person and every relationship is different. And people and relationships change with time. Any "odds" or percentages would be a guess and meaningless for an individual person or relationship.

In my case, I introduced my wife to my crossdressing slowly, piece by piece rather than just walking into the room fully disguised as a female. Doing it slowly gave her the change to say "That's enough." (she didn't). It was also less of a shock.

So she accepts. I wouldn't say she "fully accepts", she is not willing to let friends, family and neighbors know and I don't think she is ready to go out in public with me, but I can dress around her without issues and we shop together and she will pick out clothes for me.

[Marcelle]

Hi Sarah,

I truly believe statistics are not going to be that specific but probably close to what you surmise. Each relationship is different and acceptance or not is going to hinge on a variety of variables, some you can control and some you cannot. For example, timing and mode of delivery will have an affect on how your SO takes things. Specifically, was it a shock factor (walking in on you dressed or just nonchalantly saying "FYI I like to dress like a girl ... want to order pizza and do our nails") or was research done and delivery given with tact and diplomacy. Now what you cannot control is your SOs level of acceptance so that is the wild card in the equation. Finally, if acceptance (on some level) is given, do you continue to keep an open dialogue and discuss when things begin to ramp up . . . communication is key.

As many have said, initial acceptance is one thing . . . continued acceptance is another. If you start off by saying hey it is just clothes and two months later are thinking HRT well just saying . . . that could (not always) be a game changer. :)

Cheers

Isha

[UNDERDRESSER]

It is almost entirely decided by you and her. What are doing with your CD behaviour? What are you trying for? Do you even know? How lucid can you be with the explanation? What is her attitude on trans people? What sort of upbringing? How important is other peoples attitude to her? What does she see in you? What does she like about you? ( the you she knows at the moment )

When I told my then to be GF, I had realised that this relationship, if it got off the ground, was going to be important. I, personally, couldn't start it on a false footing. I was virtually certain she wouldn't out me. I was fairly certain that she wouldn't throw me out of her apartment. I felt there was a good chance she would be at least, cool about it. I actually put it at something less than 50% that she would be accepting, and it wouldn't stop the relationship.

Her reaction was.... cool. As in, that's what she said. "Oh, cool!" and carried on with the conversation.... with the added component of discussion about types of underwear. About 2 weeks later she got to see said underwear. :love: I feel that my honesty was an important factor in her decision to go ahead.

[Belle Cri]

My experience is precisely the same as Underdresser's. I knew almost right off the bat that this would have to be in the open (she already knew as it turns out and that was one of the reasons she picked me - go figure that one out gals). And I can only re-emphasize the point that it was critical to me because I also knew this one was a definite keeper and that I would have to fight - mostly myself - for her.

That was 7 years ago. We've had a difficult pre-empty nesting period that almost drove us into an unrecoverable personal doldrum of 'normality' - yes I used that non-word, but we have returned now with a greatly renewed base of honesty, openness, trust, renewal and a refreshed love for each other that is now exactly as it was in those thrilling early days - many do not get this chance.

My chance was and had to be 100% if I was to keep this relationship and my sanity, but in my case, the sneaky fox stacked the deck before the game started, to horribly mangle a metaphor. I am so glad she did though.

[Jenniferathome]

I disagree. There is a vocal minority which is quite common in all things. In fact, there is an interesting psychological phenomenon where people tend to remember the negatives even in the face of far more positive outcomes. You can see this in plane crashes or shark attacks. People think the ocean is dangerous, even with knowledge that only 7 people per year are attacked when more than 100 million hit the water! It's likely part of some self preservation instinct.

Those that have successful relationships tend to stay in the background (I am an exception generally). Cross dressing is just a "thing." It's a weird thing, for sure, but it's just a small part of any relationship. How successful the rest of your relationship is will determine your success. I won't deny that there will be a rare wife who has some really fundamentalist beliefs which may not allow her to look past this, but that is simply a corner case.

I would put the odds at 99.8% of wives will stay in the marriage. Those wives that will accept or accept but don't want to participate are probably more than 75%. Those relationships that end ALWAYS have other significant issues. Always. Cross dressing is NOT the reason women give up. You can read this in the posts from women who have ended relationships. It's painfully clear.

[Sarah-RT]

I strongly believe that after dating a person for a few weeks that it should really be mentioned, that way if they are not on board they can leave before the damage control has to be assessed. The % though really depend on where you are from, or the SO is from, past experiences etc etc. While america gets looked as the land of the free and liberty it also has the bible belt and the south which are easily seen as places you'd want to avoid being any part of the LGBT in, where as say New York would appear as more open due to its diversity.

Sarah x

[Pat]

I think perhaps the OP is confounding statistics and probabilities. It's possible to compile statistics about how many relationships ended up in which basket after a crossdresser did a reveal, but those statistics say nothing about the probability of success for someone revealing their crossdressing to an SO. Knowing that 15% of SOs are "fully supporting," say, does not describe your chances of being in one of those relationships as being 15% because there are contextual elements that affect the outcome. It's not a dice roll; it's a summation of hundreds of small bits of history, personality and even timing.

I'd argue that no probabilities can be compiled because we're not talking about randomly distributed events like dice rolls, card hands or lottery wins -- we're talking about human behavior and how people relate to each other.

[Sarah Louise]

Thank you for your replies. I'm not really surprised that's it's complicated.

Maybe I should have posed the question to "Of those who reveal, where is their relationship today"? I'm genuinely interested in how many sit in each category.

[pamela7]

Sarah,

A few of us lucky ones came out with it at the start, and life is so much easier for us, so perhaps your question could focus more on those who are either still closeted or out after years of closeting first?

[JamieG]

It sounds like you want to collect statistics. Here's one data point:

I came out to my wife nearly two years after be married. I would put our relationship somewhere between "supportive but DADT" and "fully accepts."

I agree with Jennie that such statistic won't give you much information, they can be used to generate what are called "prior probabilities" but a more accurate prediction can be made if you condition on the relevant factors. I would say some of the most important factors are strength of existing relationship, wife's support and knowledge of LGBT issues, and the extent of the secrets you've kept from her.

[Samantha Clark]

Another interesting thread. However, my view of this topic is that statistics and odds are only meaningful for events that are repetitive. Coming out to your SO is a singularity that statistical information cannot predict.

[Dianne S]

Cross dressing is just a "thing." [...]I would put the odds at 99.8% of wives will stay in the marriage.

I agree with that, but with some huge caveats. Crossdressing initially starts out as "just a thing" but when partners see how important it is for a lot of us, even to the point they consider obsessive, it becomes a giant "thing" that causes tension. There was a thread earlier in which GGs could post anonymously how they really felt about their partners' crossdressing, and it wasn't pretty.

Although most partners will stay, the relationship will forever be altered after the big reveal, and not usually for the better.

[Belle Cri]

damn but we have some math brains in here!

[LucyNewport]

How your spouse will react depends on so many factors - only a few of which are in your control. The biggest, of those you can do something about, is when and how you come clean. If she finds out at the beginning of the relationship and stays with you, then you are good to go.

Over time that acceptance might change. She may get tired of it or realize it is more/different than expected. It could become a convenient whipping post for other relationship issues, like a lack of trust or financial worries.

Also - and this shouldn't be discounted - you may change. You could in fact realize that it is not just crossdressing, and won't stay safely hidden. You may realize that you need to transition. It has happened before. In that case all bets are off.

[kimdl93]

There's no basis for making such an estimate....too many relevant variables are omitted. Things like age, religious background, other ideology, life experiences, family dynamics... Without any knowledge of these things, there's no basis for giving 'odds'

[carolyn todd]

Hello Sarah
Only you know how your SO will react to you have THE TALK.
Perhaps you could try some videos like kinky boots, hairspray or some thing with a Crossdressing theme to it to see her reaction.
I think when i say this that all SO are different.
As i say only you know your SO.

Carolyn xx

GOOD LUCK WHAT EVER YOU DO,
BUT REMEMBER ONCE THE GENIE IS OUT OF THE BOTTLE THERE IS NO WAY SHE WILL GO BACK IN.

[Tina_gm]

Stats won't really help you. A general stat of someone disclosing CDing, while maintaining most of their life as the man their wife married, AND she tends to be more on the liberal side anyway, AND, there are no other drastic changes you make in personality after the reveal, AND you are extremely unselfish about CDing, AND, you are straightforward about your CDing from the reveal on, AND you had a strong marriage at the time of the reveal, the odds are in your favor that she will stay with you. Although I would not put them as high as 99%. With each of the ands I mentioned, plus numerous other variables that I didn't, which are not followed, the odds go down, quickly.

[cheryl reeves]

i revealed who i was when i first got back together with angie after a 5 yr brk,at first she thought it was a lingerie fetish for i convinced her it was,that is til 99 when i messed up and during our big talk i fully revealed it all,she freaked me out and accepted all of it,except my fem name which is said no to and told me my fem name was going to be cheryl reeves only and no more using teresa,that was fine with me..im blessed to have a wonderful wife anf going on 27 yrs of marriage,i wouldnt want it any other way.

[AllieSF]

I agree with that, but with some huge caveats. Crossdressing initially starts out as "just a thing" but when partners see how important it is for a lot of us, even to the point they consider obsessive, it becomes a giant "thing" that causes tension. There was a thread earlier in which GGs could post anonymously how they really felt about their partners' crossdressing, and it wasn't pretty.

Although most partners will stay, the relationship will forever be altered after the big reveal, and not usually for the better.

You make a very good point. I agree that with a "strong" relationship where open communication and two level headed souls involved, the chances (odds/probability), of success should go up. To 98% staying in the marriage and 75% acceptance, I am not sure, because that sounds way overly optimistic. Back up data would be helpful. Back up data that is probably very hard to obtain from such a secret part of most people's lives. There are a lot of reasons that people may stay around after the big reveal. Some are because for the wife of a MtF TG/CD it is hard to start over when they are in that prime phase of their adult lives with economic security, close friends and neighbors, growing children and all the rest. Many women that would prefer to not be with a TG/CD husband stay because of their current secure life style situation.

Another factor to consider is that since in the USA more than 50% of marriages fail for whatever reasons, that pool of "strong" marriage relationships is probably way less than 50% of the total married population, putting the successful reveals in a less than 50% range, especially considering that many couples stayed married for reasons other than love, eg. financial security, worries about what others will think if they divorce, staying together for the kids, etc. So, that percentage of married couples who can actually weather the big reveal could be well under 50%. Who knows in reality, because the data so far has not been produced nor studied in any significant way, as far as I have seen here on this site. Anyone know of relevant studies on this?

[Sarah Louise]

One of the things about this site is everyone is so supportive and I really appreciate your thoughts about this question not necessarily helping me. However, I didn't intend this post to be about me or anyone else in making a decision whether or not to tell based on the statistics of our members. It's just a genuine question wondering how successful the reveal had been by those who had gone down that route. Hopefully, if you're reading this you can respond to another thread started by AnnaMayy. I'd really appreciate it.

On the subject of statistics, while not fool-proof, they can go some way to revealing the actual picture. For example, a health insurer insuring an employer's medical insurance will look at the claims made through that employer's plan and come up with a price from there. While they will try and refine it by looking at gender split, age, occupation etc, the starting point is always the number of claims made and the bigger the control group, the closer they can get to the likely figure. I don't see too many insurers going out of business!

Blimey, I'm talking about insurance on a cross-dressing forum.:eek:

[Samantha Clark]

As I attempted to point out earlier in this thread, statistics only apply when events are repeated frequently. Statistics and probabilities don't apply to events that only occur once.

I only can some out to my SO once, not repeatedly, so statistics won't tell me anything helpful about my reveal (which went OK BTW). Insurance companies deal in a large number of events, and can play the odds based on average experience. That experience cannot predict an individual event. Think of flipping a coin. We know the odds of heads is 50/50, right? But that is the case only if we flip the coin many times. If we flip the coin only once, then the probability of heads is either 100% or 0%. Same with coming out to an SO: the odds of success are either 100% or 0%.

[Confucius]

A survey of crossdresser's wives was taken earlier at another site.

Wives attitudes toward crossdressing:
Most positive (“embrace it”): 11%
Accept with some negative feelings: 23%
Tolerated with both positive and negative feelings: 22%
Not accept: 17%
Dislike intensely: 18%
Strongly dislike 9%
Putting aside crossdressing, 55% rated their husband as excellent or superior.

[LeslieSD]

It is true that statistics reflect things that are done repeatedly. But even if we were to do it only once, it is still very helpful to consult a reliable statics before doing it, especially if the choice might have serious consequences. For example, if statistics shows going to a college right after high school will increase your chance of success significantly than not going to college right after high school. In that case, we will want to go to college. It is not saying that not going will for sure make one a failure, but the chances are different there.

It seems to me that the OPs numbers are about in the ball part right. A 10% will go bad, and a 10% will be the envy of everyone. T he rest of us is nicely distributed in the middle.

[Dianne S]

Statistics and probabilities don't apply to events that only occur once.

I don't think that analogy quite fits. While you may have told your SO only once, the event "crossdresser tells SO" is repeated many times a day, I would guess. So it is meaningful to talk about probabilities as long as you understand the limitations... probabilities are useful to gauge the reactions of SOs in general, but not for any particular SO.

A better way to put it is that probabilities are useful to describe the behavior of large numbers of events. Carbon dating is very accurate because we know to high accuracy the half-life of carbon-14... but we have no idea whether a particular carbon-14 atom is going to decay into nitrogen now or 1000 years from now.

Getting back on-topic...

How many guys would be supportive of their wives binding their breasts, gluing on fake mustaches and packing their pants? How many would want to go out on the town with their wives like that? And how many would enthusiastically buy men's clothes for their wives?

I thought so.

So if your SO tolerates your CDing, consider yourself lucky. And don't have unrealistic expectations about the reveal.

[Samantha Clark]

I don't think that analogy quite fits. [snip]

A better way to put it is that probabilities are useful to describe the behavior of large numbers of events. Carbon dating is very accurate because we know to high accuracy the half-life of carbon-14... but we have no idea whether a particular carbon-14 atom is going to decay into nitrogen now or 1000 years from now.

Exactly my point. You can't predict a single carbon atom but you can predict an aggregate of many carbon atoms. A single carbon atom may not decay EVER. It is only the aggregate of many carbon atoms that the average applies. So this DOES fit. Sorry but you are quite wrong.

[Pat]

It is true that statistics reflect things that are done repeatedly. But even if we were to do it only once, it is still very helpful to consult a reliable statics before doing it, especially if the choice might have serious consequences.

Again, I think this discussion is confounding statistics and probabilities. Statistics (in this situation) sort the OUTCOMES of events. You can survey the forum and find that, say, 10% are in strongly accepting relationships. As my old stats teacher used to say, statistics were invented because people don't want to believe they're unlucky.

Probabilities are the chances of achieving a particular outcome. Imagine I'm going to bare my soul to my SO about my crossdressing. Is my chance of her being strongly supportive of me 10%? No. Your chance of achieving that particular outcome has no relation whatsoever to the (made up) statistic that 10% of crossdresser relationships are strongly supportive.

If you're playing backgammon and you need to roll a 1-1 to win, it's easy to calculate the probability -- it's 1 out of 36. If you roll the dice and get a bad result and your partner agrees to let you do it over you might roll next time and get that 1-1. If you're going to tell your SO that you're a crossdresser, there are no random elements in play -- there are no probabilities. It's not like telling her on Tuesday is going to get a significantly better result than telling her on Wednesday.

[HerWife1110]

Everything worked out for my wife and I. Honesty and communication are key to any healthy relationship. I've found that secrets and deception are more detrimental than most truths.
My wife underestimated me. I wish that she had given me the benefit of the doubt and had come out to me sooner. Our lives would have been much easier and happier if she had.

[Erika Lyne]

Going back to your figures I would guess I fall into the 25% that disapproves but relationship continues but then that's only my assumption because I'm in a DADT situation but not supportive or neutral but more tolerates ! Sorry to add an extra sub-section !

I'm with Teresa on this one. I would add a sub section or another section for "Tolerates." My wife is very supportive and will say she fully supports me but I consider it that she "tolerates" my dressing. She has limits, soft and hard limits...a "limit" means not fully "accepting" in my eyes. This kind of warrants a separate category since there can be a big separation between "fully accepts" and "knows but is DADT."

Just my 2 cents. If it were a formal survey, then yes, A for me " Fully Accepting" especially since we talk frequently and I can dress at home when ever the circumstances are right and her limits are not violated.

Great thread,
-E

[sometimes_miss]

I had a very long winded response to this, but it comes down to this: I don't know about the odds in today's world. But when I was in therapy back in the 90's with my ex, our psychologist tolc me that most relationships don't survive when the woman finds out her husband is a crossdresser, as it can drastically change the dynamics of the relationship. Things may have changed; but if you're looking to figure out your chances, there's no way to know, because how a woman feels about sexuality in general, and how she feels about it when it's actually HER mate that she's talking about, are two very different things.