Primary or Secondary

[Brooklyn]

During my councelling sessions, it was highlighted that I had been Transexual all my life, the clues were there, I was a typical "primary" transexual as was described by my psychiatrist, if they agreed that transition, with all its changes was progressed, I would not feel the need to "revert" to my birth gender.



Whoa… Is there a fundamental difference between “primary” (early) transexuals and late transitioners, who I assume are “secondary"? Or is that just what your doctors think?

[Nigella]

The OP was suggested as a separate thread, so folks here it is :)

[LeaP]

These are outdated terms that are meaningless.

From Anne Vitale:


There are no primary transsexuals or secondary transsexuals. There are no true transsexuals or "wannabe" transsexuals. Being gender dysphoric in a society that barely acknowledges the existence of such a condition requires the development of coping mechanisms. Some coping mechanisms are more overt and obvious than others. But no matter what the individual does to survive, one thing is certain, everyone who suffers from gender dysphoria must eventually come to terms with his or her situation.

See full text here:

http://www.avitale.com/PrimarySecondary.htm

[Eryn]

I think that these are terms designed to make a soft science seem a bit more definite.

I'm a classic late-bloomer, not even dressing completely until my 50s. I didn't have conscious thoughts about being TG which in my community only manifested itself in tawdry drag queens and Christine Jorgenson.

Yet, when I think back to my earlier years I can see that I had a definite "special interest" in feminine things. If someone, at that time, had perceived my interest and helped me explore it I might have come to terms with the issue at a much earlier time in my life. The reality was that I was too good at hiding it so nobody had a clue.

So, for me, the only difference between being "primary" and "secondary" in a psychiatrist's definition was how well I concealed my feminine side.

[Heather25]

Just like Eryn said, if there is actually such a thing as a primary and secondary transsexual, the difference is lies in that person's ability to deny, hide and conform. You could probably also add the environment they are raised in and a whole host of other things. For those of us that uncover this truth later than others I believe we just reach a point where it can't be contained any longer and it boils out from hiding whether we want it to or not.

At least, that's how it is going for me in my mid thirties.

[Frances]

People are more complex than those two categories allow.

[kimdl93]

I really liked the quote from Ann Vitale regarding coping mechanisms. So many of us can recall learning to hide very early in life. In some sense, leaning to lie about oneself in order to look better in the eyes of others.

[Michelle789]

There is no such thing as a primary or secondary transsexual. These are just terms that Blanchard made up in his rudimentary understanding of TSes. You are TS or you're not. All TSes are real TSes and real women. We are not fetishists and we are not gay men. We are not drag queens nor freaks. We are women born in male bodies. Plain and simple.

[ReineD]

These are just terms that Blanchard made up in his rudimentary understanding of TSes.

It wasn't Blanchard. First it was R.F Docter with secondary transsexualism as it relates to transvestites. Then it was expanded upon by C.D. Doorn, J. Poortinga, and A.M. Verschoor (Dutch researchers) with the concept of primary and secondary transsexualism as it relates to transsexuals. The study subjects were 36 CDers, and 155 MtF TSs requesting surgical gender reassignment and undergoing hormonal treatment at the Gender Foundation in Amsterdam during 1985 - 1989.

It was an attempt to quantify the variance among transsexuals, regardless of coping mechanisms used by TSs to deal with individual life circumstances.

They also discuss the concepts of primary gender-ID self-systems and secondary subsystems (a masculine and a feminine experienced by everyone) that can either be conditional or unconditional, and the concepts of strong-feminine, weak-feminine, strong-masculine, and weak-masculine subsystems.

I'm no expert but I think it's just another attempt at explaining the spectrum among TSs, not unlike Benjamin's attempt in the 1960s with the 3 point TS scale. It might have been better to differentiate among those who do sustain a lifelong self-perception of cross-gender ID from those who come to the realization much later in life, by using non-hierarchic terms (early-onset or late-onset) instead of using words that imply "more" (primary) and "less" (secondary).

Here's the research if anyone is interested:
http://www.helen-hill.com/pdf/xdress/crossgenderidentity.pdf

The beginning of the paper is historically interesting as it gives an overview of the research done during the 1970s. It would have been even more interesting if Doorn et al had included in their cohort, a number of TSs who live as women but who do not seek sexual reassignment which I gather is a pretty strong trend today?

[Brooklyn]

Although I know people who probably fit into the classic "primary" and "secondary" categories, I know many others who do not. The notion that MtF transsexuals are either highly effeminate gay men, or crossdressers who went off the rails makes my skin crawl, but are there more accurate scientific theories nowadays? Personally, I was an effeminate child, came out as gay during college, went back into the closet, came out as a crossdresser for a year, and now I’ve been a woman (in progress) for 1-1/2 years, and things are much better. I know what’s in my soul, but would be pleased if science could offer a better hypothesis since the current model is so flawed.

[Nigella]

Considering the explanation given to me when I asked what was meant by "primary transsexual", this is a totally different discussion. There was no mention of being effeminate, gay of fetish, just simply told, that they believed that I would be comfortable with a full transition with no regrets in the future. It was acknowledged that the indicators had been there, but I was able to supress the GD.

Whilst there may have been a different meaning to the terms "primary" and "secondary" it is clear by the contributions here, that it is and outdated, and hopefully never used in current practices.

[Jorja]

This whole "primary" and "secondary" talk is BS. Some transition early and move on. Others transition later in life for many reasons, then they move on. It is outdated thinking and a wrong theory.

[DebbieL]

Thank you Jorja!

Therapists who DON'T understand gender dysphoria often may a LOT of crazy assumptions, trying to prove that we can't really be transgender and really can't be transsexual.

I've had therapists who told me that I couldn't be transgender because I was attracted to girls, because I wasn't attracted guys, as a guy, because I didn't wear dresses in public,...

Often they have tried to say "You're just a transvestite" or "maybe you're just a cross-dresser" - trying to minimize the situation.

They would say "Now you've changed in puberty - it's too late to transition", especially when my voice changed.

And each time they would make one of these declarations - they would try to end the conversation as quickly as possible and never talk about it again.

What they didn't know, because they wouldn't let me, was that I had wanted more than anything to be a girl - since before I could talk. I hated being a boy most of the time. When they forced me to play with boys, I usually got hurt. When they would give me a buzz cut (the only way I DIDN'T get mistaken as a girl until I was 12) I would grieve, because I thought all I had to do to be a girl was grow my hair long. They didn't know about the mother of a girl friend who said nasty things to me and then told me I could never play with ANY of the girls again (meaning nearly all of my friends at the time). They didn't WANT to know.

Even today, there are those who assume that if we haven't had "The operation" - that we are really still just "a guy in a dress". They don't realize that GRS costs more than a brand new car, and you have to pay cash up front and HOPE that your insurance company will reimburse you (I finally found ONE surgeon out of 25 who would actually help you run the gauntlets insurance companies put up so that the doctor knows she will get paid - even before the prep).

Too often a "secondary" is someone who was forced to repress their dysphoria at the younger age. The father who wouldn't tolerate a sissy, made the son to sports, beat him up if he didn't WIN the fights that OTHER boys started. Others have parents with strong religious or moral beliefs - which we can't even discuss here - that force deep repression of the dysphoria. They don't even dare THINK about wanting to be a girl, on pain of death, torture, abuse, rejection, or homelessness, but they don't like being a man either. They are often loners, they have few female friends and even fewer male friends. They don't like sports because they are no good at sports, and the social aspects of practice make them feel lonely and frustrated - especially when the coach tries to provoke better performance by calling them "girly" or "ladies" - as an insult.

Often, the dysphoria manifests itself in depression, suicidal feelings, and general discontent. They may have a hard time getting motivated. They often isolate, engaging in solitary interests, like computers, or engineering, or writing - and become outstanding performers because they don't have as many distractions.

Often, it takes the support of someone loving and understanding to break through those walls and defenses that have been built up over years or decades.