“HRT” but not transitioning?

[Claire Cook]

This may be a contradiction / oxymoron, but reading Alexandra’s post about HRT (and those started by others) led me to think about this. Are there any of us who have started HRT – perhaps low dosages – but DON’T plan on transitioning? Perhaps because we just want a touch of physical change – slightly softer skin, a bit a fat deposition here and there – or want to enhance our female emotional responses, or just to get more in touch with our female selves – yet for whatever reason do not want to live ultimately full-time as women? I may have missed earlier posts that addressed this question, but it seems as though those of us who begin HRT do so with the intent of transitioning.

Or is the use of female hormones – even in low doses – considered transitioning even if we choose to maintain at least a semblance of our male selves?

Thanks,

Claire

[Sarasometimes]

Great question Claire that I can't answer but I would also like to know that answer. Does anyone do this under doctor's care?

[CarlaWestin]

So, now you have my attention. As of late, I've been thinking about slow HRT, if that's even a possibility. That would be a nice lead up as I approach retirement.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Claire, Maybe just enough HRT to just grow some nice BOOBIES.:daydreaming:

[Donnagirl]

I'm not exactly sure what your asking, but I'm currently on a medically supervised low dose HRT. Do I want SRS, I don't think so, do I want to eventually end up full time presenting female, there is a possibility, but I'm certainly undecided... Why am I on HRT, I have my reasons, for one it has put an end to the roller coaster mood swings and dark, dangerous depression. Am I transitioning, well I think yes. Now I know this has been argued many times and I'll (again) get some criticism along the line that that I'm not actually transitioning... Am I transsexual, well yes, it took some massive introspection and lots of time with the Psych, but yes. Olympic qualifying denial, yep, weapons grade suppression, definitely, but there are reasons I don't think I can go along the transition path to its finality.

[mechamoose]

I wish I was a tiny little thing with a figure that could 'pass', but I'm a moose.

I'm mentally and emotionally in the middle, but my body is all male. I'd love to enhance myself in a way that made me more 'femaleish'.

- MM

[I Am Paula]

Yes, HRT is used without transition. NOT for it's physical effects, but to help align mind and body. If you want boobs, get implants.

[pamela7]

tempted by implants ;-)

[Marcelle]

Hi Claire,

Awhile back, my therapist approached the subject of HRT . . . well more precisely T-Blockers and asked if it was something I wanted to pursue. I took the information home, did some research, talked to an endocrinologist friend of mine and reached out to some in the trans community I knew to get an informed opinion. In the end, it did not appeal to me as I was happy with my body and preferred to keep my T-levels where they are and not alter. I discussed this a few weeks later with my therapist and she added that T-blockers might help to make my mind a little clearer and lessen some the angst I feel at times when I had a need to present female but could not (this pre-dated my coming out in the work place). However, once I came out at work and was given the latitude to present in either gender, my angst dissipated and things leveled.

So HRT even low doses is not something I feel I need to function or present as a woman right now . . . what the future holds, who really knows.

Cheers

Isha

[Krisi]

This is something that should be discussed with your doctor and it should be done for a specific medical reason, not to soften skin or grow boobs. Men are often given testosterone replacement therapy if their testosterone is low. There's a reason for this, your body needs certain hormones.

You are going to have to get your treatment from a doctor anyway so discus this with him or her.

[stefan37]

There is no such thing as HRT light. Low doses will effect change over a period of time. You can't pick and choose which changes you want and which changes you don't. Want bigger breasts? Get implants. Want bigger hips? Use padding of change your wardrobe. You most likely will experience softer skin, shrinking pores. Change in body odor. Change in libido and most experience erectile dysfunction.
If you are married be prepared to lose it. Unless they are completely on board. Are you prepared to deal with binding your chest, wear looser clothing, etc if you do experience breast growth.

Side effects are increased to developing life threatening or ending deep vein thrombosis. Increased risk of heart attack. Increased risk of liver damage. Incressed risk of cancer. And many other health issues. They are serious chemicals that interact in our bodies at the cellular level. The decision to take them should also be as serious. They will over time rewire your brain and possibly your thought processes.

[Laura912]

Claire, to answer your question "is this transitioning" requires that one know how long transition lasts. To date, no one can or has answered that. For some it is a quick trip, for others, it is a lifetime. HRT, under medical supervision, may help you or may not. If you desire to dip a toe into those waters, it is your decision.

[Claire Cook]

Hi all,

Donna, thank you for your response. Yes, this is the sort of thing that I have been wondering about.

Perhaps I should 'fess up a bit here. If you go through some of my old posts you'll know that in a way I am doing this. I've been taking finsasteride for BPH for a year -- this is an androgen blocker in that it inhibits the synthesis of some testosterone derivatives, obviously prescribed by my doctor. I have been taking nonprescription "female supplements" with all of my doctors' knowledge for a number of years. Isha, when my doctor asked if I wanted to consider estrogen, I said no. I have some very modest breast development, and whether this is a placebo effect or not I'm not sure, but I feel better emotionally than I have in years. (Possibly because I'm more comfortable en femme? Chicken egg question?) Does this mean I am transitioning? I don't think so.

Stephan and Krisi, I just saw your posts and agree completely.

I look forward to hearing from more of you about this question.

Hugs,

Claire

[mechamoose]

Hi Claire,

I need to point out a key differentiator here.

'forms' - This is what I want to look like

'hormones' - This is what I want to be like

Make of that what you will, but I see those choices as a bright, white line.

- MM

[Krisi]

Considering all the dangers of testosterone blockers, I would think that if you're certain that's what you want, having the testicles surgically removed would be the safest procedure. You might have to take female hormones after that but they wouldn't be fighting male hormones.

[Tracii G]

Krisi I have thought about that route myself.

[Leslie Langford]

I wish I was a tiny little thing with a figure that could 'pass', but I'm a moose.

I'm mentally and emotionally in the middle, but my body is all male. I'd love to enhance myself in a way that made me more 'femaleish'.

- MM

Never say "Never", MM - if former muscle-bound world-class Olympian and gold medal decathlon winner (how grueling is that?) Caitlyn (Bruce) Jenner can emerge from her cocoon as the butterfly she now is, there is hope for everyone...

[NicoleScott]

Anyone considering testicle removal should get competent advice to "steer" them in the right direction.

[mechamoose]

I'm a T cancer survivor, I'm not looking to lose the other one.

I never felt different for losing one.

[Lorileah]

low doses would be like peeing in the wind if you want physical changes. If it worked at all, it would be so slow you would tire of it before you got anywhere. As mentioned above endos will use a lower dose for those who aren't quite sure or who cannot fully transition just to balance mind (again, see placebo effect with higher risk of side effects as above)

[Samantha Clark]

Anyone considering testicle removal should get competent advice to "steer" them in the right direction.

Hee hee LOL. "Steer". I get it.

[chris63]

What is the process? Surely you can't just call a dr and ask for an orchiotomy.

[PaulaQ]

For an orchiectomy, you'll generally need a letter from a therapists.

I've observed that for some, low dosages of estradiol seem to provide some mitigation of GD, and minimal physical changes, although change you will. I've seen this in trans women who'd docs left them on way too low of a dosage.

Their mitigation of GD wasn't complete, they felt a whole lot better when their meds were correct.

The thing is, different people react differently to HRT, sometimes dramatically. You had best plan for the worst case, in 6-12 months looking noticeably different, if you start. That may or may not happen. There's no way to know in advance.

This isn't a cosmetic.

[Stephania]

low doses would be like peeing in the wind if you want physical changes. If it worked at all, it would be so slow you would tire of it before you got anywhere. As mentioned above endos will use a lower dose for those who aren't quite sure or who cannot fully transition just to balance mind (again, see placebo effect with higher risk of side effects as above)

Lorileah, I am on a low dose, lowest you can be on. This is because of heart probs in my past. It is not like pissing in the wind. I have almost B breasts. Actually look quite nice. Been on it for 1 1\2 years.

[Rianna Humble]

is the use of female hormones – even in low doses – considered transitioning even if we choose to maintain at least a semblance of our male selves?
According to the World Professional Association for Transgender Health's latest Standards of Care
Hormone therapy must be individualized based on a patient’s goals, the risk/benefit ratio of medications, the presence of other medical conditions, and consideration of social and economic issues. Hormone therapy can provide significant comfort to patients who do not wish to make a social gender role transition
So it is possible to take hormones under medical supervision without the aim of transition, but it is not something to be undertaken lightly

[stefan37]

Actually there are doctors that will do an orchi with no letters. Most of the surgeons that do SRS require one letter for an orchi. For SRS they require 2 as specified in WPATH.

[Amy Fakley]

Taking hormones carries a serious risk of medical complications. Most notably cancer, which I (and I'm sure others here) can attest, is a thing you want nothing to do with, ever. Period. Cancer is bad, m'kay?

If you're TS, and you're fighting truly monsterous battles with gender dysphoria day in and day out, and suicide waits at your door morning noon and night ... well, I suppose you've gotta crunch that risk/benefit analysis. It might be the only thing that can put your mind right, and if your prospects going without arent that great, I get how it can make lots of sense.

Taking hormones to get softer skin? To grow boobs? For peace of mind?

I'd talk to a dermatologist, a plastic surgeon, and a psychiatrist long, looooong before I talked to an endo. There are other ways to get what you're after, ways that don't carry such a high risk of mortality (you did want to spend time LIVING as a woman, right? Not dying as one?) And if you're not transitioning anyway ... I honestly just think that is a really really bad idea.

Remember (at least in america), healthcare is a business, and literally every single doctor you talk to is primarily an entrepreneur, trying to grow a business and keep food on the table. No one has your best interest as a primary consideration, BUT YOU. People will sell you any damn thing you wanna pay for.

[Donnagirl]

Again, I'm a little surprised at the strength of argument this type of thread incites... I trust my doctor and endo that what I'm on is what is right for my current situation. It's no placebo effect that I no longer have dangerous depression. Kim, and others even thinking it was Bi Polar, the catalyst for action being an incident that warranted an arrest 'for my own protection'...

So yes, low dose HRT has significant medical and psychological value...

[ReineD]

I think there are some CDers who want to find some way to feminize themselves just a little bit (enough to pass better), without wanting it to show too much in male mode and without wanting to transition and live full time as a woman.

I say this because over the years there have been members who looked into the feminizing lotions and potions or OCT HRT marketed online specifically to CDers, to the point where discussions of (taken from the rules): "non-surgical breast enhancement, ANY herbal medication and any kind of supplements for ANY reason, ANY over the counter medication for ANY reason, and ANY online pharmacies for ANY reason" were strictly prohibited in this forum.

I always got the impression that members who wanted these types of changes wanted a quick-fix and had not looked into the full effects of HRT like a TS would look into it.

As to low dose HRT prescribed by a doctor, I asked about this in one of the threads and I think it was April who said that lower doses are just as effective although they do take longer to achieve the same effects as higher doses. But then I don't know what the effect would be if a person is just on low-dose HRT without androgen blockers.

[stefan37]

If feminizing effects are what you are after. Breast implants. Hip padding. Beard removal and Facial reconstruction. Those procedures will get you your feminizing features with no letters or health issues. Well there is a risk of issues with surgery. But given the huge amount of procedures. The risk of serious complications is low. Same with an orchi. SRS is a different issue and the risk of serious complications is much higher.

HRT can be a positive influence. But be sure you are taking it for the right reasons. And it is absolutely possible to take it and live as male 24/7 or part time.

[Claire Cook]

Hi all,

Just a quick followup to Amy's post. We know that there is a relationship between estrogen levels and the incidence of breast cancer, so yes that is a serious consideration with HRT. I hope that all of you on HRT have regular breast exams and mammograms (yes, I know there has been some debate about the frequency of mammograms for women). Even though I am not on HRT, my doctor has recommended bi-annual mammograms for me.

For those of you who are interested (and I think all women should be), there is a fascinating book by Florence Williams called Breasts: a Natural and Unnatural History. I highly recommend it.

Cheers,

Claire

[Kaitlyn Michele]

just know you cant easily predict effects, dosages and delivery of the dose are all over the map, andro blockers are a key component, its easy to gain weight and there are meaningful health risks...

not to throw the fox in with the chickens but......
one side effect of estrogen is that it can make you look younger

[Jorja]

Clair mentions the possibility of cancer from taking HRT. There is also the possibility of deep vein thrombosis, pulmonary embolism and thrombophlebitis all which can be worse and more deadly than cancer. I mention this because taking estrogen is not a game to be taken lightly. There are some very serious side effects that are very real possibilities. Make damn sure you understand what you are doing before you pop that first pill, take that first shot, or put on that first patch. Your life may depend on it.

[chris63]

I have taken testosterone since I was 13. I have naturally low T. It carries the same risks. My dr suggests regular blood donations to keep hemoglobin levels down . It works for me . I would think the same thing would work for estrogen supplementation

[Sandie70]

I had thought about this for some time, but the medical complications that could arise didn't seem worth the risk unless I wanted to transition fully. And at my age and with other medical issues I have, this was not something I could risk.

Not to say that the idea of being more feminine wasn't a great attraction. I longed to have real breasts, softer skin, etc.

But now, for me, the safer avenue will be aggressive electrolysis and laser treatments for my body and facial hair, voice lessons, weight reduction and body shaping and, eventually, a boob job. This seems to be the road set for me in the future - and a much safer one than taking estrogen.

For those who need to transition, I know this is not a choice they would make... but for me it is.

[PaulaQ]

If you're TS, and you're fighting truly monsterous battles with gender dysphoria day in and day out, and suicide waits at your door morning noon and night ... well, I suppose you've gotta crunch that risk/benefit analysis. It might be the only thing that can put your mind right, and if your prospects going without arent that great, I get how it can make lots of sense.

For me it was simple. Lead poisoning > Breast Cancer.

The main complication to watch out for are pulmonary embolisms. This isn't common at all, but if you are genetically prone to this (it affects cisgender women as well as trans women), you will need a lot of discussion with a doctor before taking estrogen. This is one of the things doctors monitor for when you are in their care. I know a trans woman who can't take HRT because of this. The same condition killed her mother at a young age, just from the natural estrogen her body produced. This is rare, but it does happen.

Another concern for some forms of HRT can be liver damage. Pills and other ingested forms of HRT can be hard on your liver.

I'm not trying to scare anyone away - keep in mind these hormones are things our bodies produce naturally, but the formulations that are used aren't always so natural.

This is why we tell people to see a doctor. Generally this stuff is pretty safe, and fairly simple, but you really do need a doctor to make sure nothing goes horribly wrong, because it absolutely can.

[Claire Cook]

I just wanted to thank Paula, Jorga and others who point out some of the issues we face if we decide for hormone therapy. It is indeed a serious matter, not one to be taken lightly and certainly not without medical supervision.

[chris63]

Yes, all medications have side effects. I have been on HRT (testosterone) since puberty due to a congenital issue. I am now 52. All of the testosterone nightly marketed to men as the fountain of youth have the exact same cardiovascular side effects as estrogen, yet drs write scripts for this like candy. Not trying to minimizie side effects, but if you read what could happen to you if you took an aspirin or advil you'd never put one in your mouth. Taking any meds are a big deal, it's best to be closely followed by a competent physician.