Tell me. How does this make you feel?

[2B Natasha]

So this weekend. Here in the city of Renton Washington. There was a summer time festival called. “ Renton River Days “ For those of you who do not know. Renton lies about 30 minutes outside Seattle. Not known for being a super progressive place. It’s better known for building Airplanes. Boeing 737, 737 MAX and the variations of these planes. Blue collar union jobs. So I was more then a little surprised to find out that there is a chapter of PFLAG in this here city. So I of course stopped by to say “ Hi “ . After talking to them for a minute or three. I noticed that there was a small book(let) entitled. ( it’s 61 pages long!)

“ Guide to being a trans ally “
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So I picked one up. After making a few comments about a similar book(let)

“ Guide to being a straight ally “ Whatever that means? And my wife letting on to my girl side. We talked about meeting and where they where at. We left taking with us this book(let)

So I had some time today to read through it. Honestly skimming as I didn’t need to read some of the stories that they used as examples of the different gender variations and the about sex vs. gender explanation. Got those down thank you very much. I did skip to the glossary of terms just to see what it said about Crossdressing or if it said anything at all about it. BOY did it ever. I was struck by what was written in the glossary of terms regarding us.

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Cross Dresser: Someone who wears the clothes typically worn by another gender, sometimes only in their home, or as part of sexual play, and sometimes at public functions, it can be a self-identity. This term is not interchangeable with transgender and some people who cross dress may consider themselves to be part of the trans community, while others do not. (This is a newer word for the older and less preferred word “transvestite” that is sometimes used in this context).

It struck me in several ways.

I felt after reading the definition from them that I was not included in what they are about. Unless you put me under the header of Queer. and I am not interested in that.

I was struck by the wording that it made us out to be more interested in this being a sexual thing and thats all.

I was struck by the exclusion of us as part of the trans umbrella.

I felt that on the never ending issue of bathroom use. That this organization would not have my back. That even they consider me to be unworthy.

when I got done reading this I felt like less. Less of a member. Less of deserving an ally. Less important. A second class citizen if you will.

Now you maybe saying that it left it open ended about these issues. That we get to “ Self Identify “ Which I suppose is fair to say. But the writing did not strike me as that. It struck me as those people ( Us ) are not included and are less of a group. That we do this for sexual reasons. That we don’t go out. We are a bunch of shut-ins.

So when you read these words out of this book(let). How does it make you feel?

[franlee]

I honestly could care less so I don't feel any way from that booklet. And what you were saying at the end is what we read from a lot of CDer's. So if you are more of the other classifications then just Crossdresser you may feel slighted but I really don't need their understanding or representation. I would rather deal with my own issues and no outside influences or publication.

[pamela7]

i can't read the image

[Teresa]

Natasha, I would have picked that booklet up thinking it can't be a bad thing that someone has taken the trouble to use a booklet to come out !
Like Pamela I can't read the text but I get the picture from your comments !
Do you know who the author is ? It sounds from the glossary that it's that person's personal interpretations of the various labels !
The CD definition certainly sounds like a very personal view !

It's a shame that the kind minded person that put it together didn't do a better job because it's ideas like this done correctly that are going to help us in the public eye.

[Claire Cook]

Hi Natasha,

As everyone has said so far the page is unreadable, but just going by what you have written, it sounds as though they really don't understand much about us. Probably not the best PR we could have.

[Katey888]

Here's what the section says (as best as my NSA-grade enhancement software delivers...):


Crossdresser: Someone who wears the clothes typically worn by another gender, sometimes only in their home, or as part of sexual play, and sometimes at public functions, it can be a self-identity. This term is not interchangeable with transgender and some people who cross dress may consider themselves to be part of the trans community, while others do not. (This is a newer word for the older and less preferred word “transvestite” that is sometimes used in this context).

I have to say, this is a very short definition but I don't see it as excluding us from the trans world, other than voluntarily (which we know many here do...). I'd agree it's an oversimplification, but you could write a book about us - and someone probably should... :)

Katey x

[Marcelle]

Hi Natasha,

I agree with Katey as I don't see the term as excluding cross dressing from the community but more a definition of some feel they fit in the transgender umbrella and others do not . . . which is quite commonly stated by some here.

Cheers

Isha

[pamela7]

you could write a book about us - and someone probably should... :)
Katey x

given the time spent on this forum, we have a collective capacity to indeed write said book ... consider the gauntlet cast!!!

[sometimes_miss]

I was struck by the wording that it made us out to be more interested in this being a sexual thing and thats all.

I didn't read it that way at all. However, for those who can't make out the scanned images, Try this, then, and scroll to page 64: http://community.pflag.org/document.doc?id=904

Just click the link and it will take you to the page, right click on it and save it to disk. It's a pdf, and you can read the whole thing at your leisure on your phone with any pdf reader.

[stefan37]

First off the general public has no idea what any of this is about. The majority have never had any interaction with snybody that cross dresses or is gender fluid or transitioning. No matter the definition of a label there will be those that disagree with it.
Many crossdressed are in denial. They dress, utilize female names, use forms and padding to change the appearance of their body. But absolutely refuse to accept they have some degree of Trans in them. There are those that will get extremely offended by what I just stated.
Then there are others that do accept who they are and express themselves in a manner consistent and do interact with the public.
The pamphlet is a great starting point to give to those Cis individuals in your life to help them explain. Do they sometimes dwell on the sexual aspect? Yes, but that a true statement in many cases. There are those here that do have a fetish and get sexually charged. I would say that guess for the majority when they first experience crossdressing. And fades the longer they do it when the sexual aspect wears off.

You want to define who you are? Then show people who you are. Not Until CD come out of the closet with their spouses or partners and start to interact with society will society start to understand and accept.

[kimdl93]

I didn't see it as exclusion. The suggestion was that the term crossdresser is not interchangeable with transgender. Of course the two terms are not synonymous. One term, crossdresser, is clearly a subset of and not equivalent to the other, transgender. Further, my impression was that the offered definition observed that some cross dressers may consider themselves part of the transgender community and others not....something we hear in this forum all the time.

[mykell]

hi natasha,
i went to a jersey chapter here and felt welcome, the second meeting i went dressed and when it was my turn to speak i thanked them for making feel that comfortable, that is when some remembered me from a previous meeting.

i just checked and i have that booklet, guess ill read it now...but what i think that is important was how you were made to feel, did you feel included, i know i did...but what i will do and what you may what to do is ask the group how they feel about it....then you will know for certain, also they have different meetings with different focuses, i went to a parents and friends transgender meeting both times, both had a different mix of folks.....i felt comfortable enough to dress in public for the first time ever...

[Abby Kae]

sometimes only in their home, or as part of sexual play

This is the most important part for me. It doesn't say that CDers do it for sexual thrills, it says sometimes. It doesn't say that zero CDers are TG, it says some of them.

I can't speak to your feelings, because they're yours and yours alone, but this doesn't feel at all exclusionary to me.

[Pat]

I suppose it depends on which words you emphasize in your mind. To me the emphasis was that some consider themselves part of the trans community (as I do) and some do not. Since I do, I feel supported, allied and welcome. It seems pretty balanced to me and accurately reflects what we see in this forum all the time. The constant bickering over labels gets boiled down to 'some feel one way, some feel another' -- it's like freakin' Solomon wrote the paragraph. ;)

P.S. Thanks for the PDF link!

[Krisi]

Anyone can write a book and in 2015, anyone can have their book printed or put on the Internet. It means no more than what some people say in person or on Internet forums. Even on this forum, there is no universal agreement on terms or labels.

I wouldn't worry about it.

[Isabella Ross]

Many crossdressed are in denial. They dress, utilize female names, use forms and padding to change the appearance of their body. But absolutely refuse to accept they have some degree of Trans in them. There are those that will get extremely offended by what I just stated.

Bingo. It's as though some people see the transgender label, even as an umbrella term, as somehow threatening. Why do you crossdress? Because you're somewhere on the transgender scale, from mild to moderate to maximum.

[Belle Cri]

given the time spent on this forum, we have a collective capacity to indeed write said book ... consider the gauntlet cast!!!

Now that I would be willing to invest effort in.

[NicoleScott]

...we have a collective capacity to indeed write said book...

Sure, since we're all in agreement about everything. A camel looks like a horse designed by a committee.

[LilSissyStevie]

The definition is pretty accurate if you pay attention to what people actually say on this forum.

[Alice Torn]

Natasha, Small world! I lived in Renton for quite a few years, from fall 1981, to 2002. before my dressing got head to toe. I wish there were some kind of group in my area now, in rural Illinois.

[2B Natasha]

Perhaps I just felt that the definition is SO large. That the definition they gave just felt a bit dismissive. If they don't feel they can tackle the issue head on. Which I completely understand. At least give the definition more clarity. Perhaps by saying that IT IS a varied subject and to talk to someone to understand. idk.

[mykell]

hi Natasha, i read the book today at work, when i read it one time i felt why you felt dismissed, after reading the book in whole there were so many different variants listed...
from before the glossary...
" here is a list of terms that will help make your efforts more effective, please remember that terminology is a constantly evolving topic, so be aware that people may have differences in how they understand certain words, and references for how they describe themselves....."

from the end of the glossary...

"all definitions taken and /or adopted by PFLAG nationals terminology guide (pflag.org) and the glossary included in trans bodies, and trans selves (transbodies.com)"

i could not find any info on the transbodies.com site as they are selling the book now that it is complete....

[gailbridges]

Ok. I'll admit that I havent read this entire thread so if somebody throws some shade my way for being lazy, I get that and apologize.
BUT..... Considering that the event you went to was in a highly conservative area..... Maybe their pflag chapter just doesnt understand trans, and in a rush to get their publication out.... just found a convenient definition to slam in there so they could SAY that they are compliant with the larger group?

Think about it for a minute. While you and I have been aware of trans people for a long time, the general public is not all that well educated about the subject. WE know many trans stories, but I would wager that the vast majority of people in the US or the world at large didn't really have a clue until Laverne Cox, and Caitlyn Jenner came along. And yes, that probably also applies to parents and friends of lesbians and gays. It says it right in their name. Lesbians and gays. Not trans.

Look, I'm sure these people are trying their best to be accepting without their heads exploding, and they are going to mess things up. Please take it in stride, and educate people if that is your bent.

Seriously.... I know many girls here think that Caitlyn Jenner is just a media *****.... but truly, she is just the largest salvo that is in a position to educate the public about our girls. The more people SEE her and people like her, the more people come to accept what they see as a gender-variance. The more acceptance, the less bullying for future generations.

That's all I've got to say about that.