Don't be so supportive.

[Sarah Doepner]

I went to my latest counseling session dressed en femme for the first time the other day. Within the first ten minutes my counselor was telling me how he was seeing different behaviors, a more relaxed nature and a convincing female presentation appropriate for my age, size etc. At one point he leaned back in his chair to pause and then said he didn't want to appear as encouraging me, but he did none-the-less. I did spend the rest of the day visiting, shopping, eating and eventually going to a movie before returning home. We discussed what goals or ends I see for myself and I have trouble with that idea, possibly because I've been referring to myself as a "run of the mill crossdresser". As we talked we got into terms and definitions and I started to think that identifying myself as a crossdresser eliminated any further change. As a crossdresser I would wear the clothes and present as female, but there was a boundary that limits the issues I would consider. If I opened it up to a broader term, that of Transgender for instance, my world got larger and options multiplied. Gender fluid, Gender queer, even the concept of transition would be open for consideration. It makes my head hurt and puts butterflies in my stomach to deal with that many options. Staying in the box of "crossdresser" eliminates all that and becomes relatively simple and safe.

I'm going to counseling to give myself permission to think about these things seriously and find ways to get over the fear I have in coming out to some of my family. I recognize they will find out eventually since I'm not going to live forever, and I'd prefer to be honest and up front with them. When my late wife became aware and supportive it was a great relief and I was a happier person. With her death I've been driven back in the closet and experience the anxiety that had been wiped away. I'm not really sure what the point of my post is. I'm not asking for anyone here to plan my future, that is only appropriate for me to decide. I am open to other frames of reference that may be helpful to examine my world as I look for the next step, whether it be forward, sideways or back.

Maybe I don't want the counselor to be supportive and encouraging confident and expanded exploration of my female aspects, but if I'm honest I appreciated hearing it from him.

On the more theoretical side, does anyone else see their choice in language as creating artificial limits on their choices?

[pamela7]

our language creates reality in ways most folks would be shocked to realise. So, yes, definitely my words create my limits, my perception my focus my insight, my experience, what the world brings.

[CynthiaD]

Words don't create limits. We use certain words because of the limits we've already created for ourselves. Perhaps your counselor was suggesting you explore those limits to determine whether they are really what you want. It's worth asking the question, no matter what the answer is.

[Pat]

I always say that vocabulary is important (major wisdom, huh?) Before I had the vocabulary to describe myself to myself, I just had these mysterious urges and felt I was the only one on the planet to have them. When I learned about transvestism (as a behavior, not a term of derision) I was able to recognize myself and start to suss things out about things I had been feeling my whole life. When a friend told me matter-of-factly that I was a Transgender Male and had the right to be who I was, I took it to heart and it was a major expansion of my universe and I realized that crossdresser/transvestite was actually limiting me to a single expression that was still not correct for me. Now I don't have to put on the wig to be Jennie -- Jennie is a part of me every day no matter what I'm wearing. I still love to present female, but I don't have guilt or anxiety when I don't and, in fact, now present mixed most of the time. So, yeah, I think the words we use can limit us or free us. Your milage may vary.

[ReineD]

As a crossdresser I would wear the clothes and present as female, but there was a boundary that limits the issues I would consider. If I opened it up to a broader term, that of Transgender for instance, my world got larger and options multiplied. Gender fluid, Gender queer, even the concept of transition would be open for consideration. It makes my head hurt and puts butterflies in my stomach to deal with that many options. Staying in the box of "crossdresser" eliminates all that and becomes relatively simple and safe.I appreciated hearing it from him.

No matter what you call it, what I'm reading in your words is that you want to feel comfortable going out occasionally presenting female, but you do not want to think about body modifications or living full time as a woman. Am I right?

So you can use any word you like to describe what you want to do, or you don't have to use any one word. You can just tell your family what you want to do instead. A lot of people have a difficult time explaining to others the reason they wish to present a gender different than assigned at birth.

It's like math, really. There is a line upon which there are five dots. We can call those dots the set of {a, b, c, d, e} or {1, 2, 3, 4, 5} or {v, w, x, y, z} and it doesn't matter. Each set refers to the same dots.

If in the future you decide that you want to do more than what you want to do today, then you can use the words that will describe what you will want to do as an explanation to anyone you will wish to explain it to. You've heard the expression, "We are what we do, not what we say".

[Saikotsu]

Interesting thread. If you've been on this site for any length of time, no doubt you'll have seen major debates spring up from how one person defines a term(s) as opposed to another. Terms and labels can be incredibly empowering and incredibly limiting. People naturally want to define things. Its in our nature. Everyone is going to put a label of some sort on you, but it's up to you to decide which labels you'll own and which ones you'll avoid. I for one feel empowered by the label, genderfluid. I feel that it truly defines my experience. I'm sometimes a guy, sometimes a girl, sometimes both, others neither. If you were to call me a crossdresser, I'd bristle. I have nothing against crossdressers, I'm on this site after all, but I feel that such a label does not fit who or what I am.

Anyway, I'm not qualified to tell you what you should do in this case. Thats between you and your counselor. I know when I was seeing a gender identity therapist, it really helped me to explore the terms and definitions and find what felt right to me. But that was the right path for me. Your path is your own, and only you can walk it.

[Angie G]

I don't like limits in anything i crossdress and thais as far as I'm going with this. ihappy where I"m at . If you have feelings of going beyond where you are now then by all means explore the possibilitys Sarah.Best wishes to you on what ever you do.:hugs:
Angie

[Abby Kae]

To add my experience to what Jennie said, vocabulary was very important to me.

A few months ago, I didn't have the words to describe why I was feeling anxious and sad all the time, then the word "crossdresser" popped up for me and it seemed to help.

A few weeks ago, when I started asking myself why just the idea of it was so soothing to me, the word "transsexual" started running through my head. That caused a lot of anxiety for me, because I thought it was an all or nothing type of thing.

Some research and a few days later, I came to understand the differentiation and the word "transgender", and all my pieces started to fit together.

Today, and every day since then, I've felt more at peace with myself than I have at any other point in my 1/3rd of a century on this planet, and it's all because of an increase in my vocabulary.

I still haven't dressed up. I don't own any feminine products. The only feminization I've done (aside from daydreaming and window shopping) is shave my legs and clean up my bushy eyebrows a little bit. It's not the expression of my female side that's providing me with this serenity, it's having the words to explain it to myself.

So I don't think words have limited me, but the lack of words certainly has. To me, adding to my vocabulary has done wonderful things. Adding to my self-awareness and understanding has only been possible with the acquisition of new words and new definitions.

[simone1970]

What's wrong with being comfortable and happy?
Thats how i live my life!!!

[Jorja]

Sarah, you can call yourself a gazelle if you want but that doesn't mean anything. What I am trying to say, is that you set your own limits and your vocabulary is yours to command. If you think you are only a crossdresser, then you are. If you believe there is more to it than that, there probably is. You are the one that drives your future, not suggestions from a therapist or anyone else. I think his whole intent is to get you to think deeper about yourself and your intentions.

[pamela7]

I'm not going to try starting to educate anyone on the structure of the psyche/self, the hypnotic power of words, that some people are immune, others (most) are not, that some words express prior limits, other words expand, other words do limit, associated with the emotional energy used. PM me if interested.

Meanwhile, I only discovered the words "underdressing", "crossdressing", "tucking", "gaff", "forms" and so forth in January. Those words have EXPANDED my world, and so has this forum - thank you all. I just discovered the term "furries" this week; another expansion!

xxx

[Katey888]

“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass

Sarah - I think I understand what you mean by limiting, but only if you are too influenced by the negative perspectives of others. If you are comfortable with your own description and what it encapsulates for you, I think that's a good place to be and a helpful feeling.

The difficulty here (and for Humpty and Alice too) is when you need to explain what you're feeling or what you are to someone else (like your therapist), and at that point it is important that there is a shared and accepted meaning for you both/ all to have the same frame of reference. I'm becoming more comfortable with the idea of being a slightly gender fluid, crossdresser, but I'm sure that doesn't mean the same thing to me as it may to others. As long as it is sufficient to place us in a category for any external reference (like medical professionals) then the detail really only matters to you.

Glad to hear you're making progress too - that's the important part! :cheer:

Katey x

[kimdl93]

I suspect that, like my psychologist many years ago, that your counselor is speaking not to influence or to be supportive, but rather, in the words my psychologist used, 'to help me accept reality'. Like most of us, you have put up internal barriers between yourself, and accepting....even considering the possibility of living openly and happily. And you did this for the same reason we all have: fear of rejection. So, now you have experienced acceptance by your late spouse, and successfully navigated the outside world as a woman. That's the reality...and it is far more than the narrow construct of being a cross dresser.

[flatlander_48]

Language exists to allow us to determine and communicate the circumstances of our lives, the feelings associated with those circumstances and our actions/reactions to those circumstances. The problem here is that we often have multiple defintions of the same terms OR different terms for the same definition. That makes it VERY confusing to have a reasonable conversation with the outside world.

To me, simple definitions are the best. I identify as bisexual, a crossdresser and as a transgender person. I am not fluid in these descriptions; they seem to have settled into a pretty consistent place. Bisexual is self-explanatory, as is crossdresser I think. As a crossdresser I have a wardrobe of feminine clothes and undergarments. I fully present as female in the external world a few times a month and neck down several times a week at home. If I am not wearing feminine clothing, then I am underdressed. Transgender isn't quite so sharply defined. Eventually I realized that there was always a part of me that was very attuned to a feminine perspective. When suppressed, it seemed like background noise. However, as I began to dress, it occured to me that it wasn't just some hazy dross, but a distinct part of my personality. If I had to put a number on it, male to female, I would say 80%/20% approximately. Presently it seems to be essentially static, but that is not to say that it couldn't change in the future. At any rate, I do like the time that I am able to present as female.

So, with all this definition in place, none of it feels limiting to me. What I know is that if circumstances began to feel different, I would think about it and hopefully figure out what other definitions seemed appropriate. The thing is, life is evolutionary; as Humans, we evolve. At any given time we could be static, we could be in a state of flux, we could experience a rapid rate of change or a barely noticeable rate of change. But, what's important is that we remain flexible enough to reconsider what we see and feel as needed. That is how we evolve.

As the phrase goes:

The Only Thing That Is Constant Is Change...

DeeAnn

[Sarah Doepner]

Thanks all for reads and comments. I have a few weeks to work on stuff while the counselor is on an extended trip. Your comments, even if I don't respond here, are definitely being seen and viewed as help as I move along. I've said it before and will continue to say it, this is a great forum and from the lurkers to the admins, you are a real asset to this segment of the community.



No matter what you call it, what I'm reading in your words is that you want to feel comfortable going out occasionally presenting female, but you do not want to think about body modifications or living full time as a woman. Am I right?

So you can use any word you like to describe what you want to do, or you don't have to use any one word. You can just tell your family what you want to do instead. A lot of people have a difficult time explaining to others the reason they wish to present a gender different than assigned at birth. . . . snip . . .

Reine, the more I think about it the more I'm not sure what I want, other than getting past false barriers to understanding who I actually am. I may want more than feeling comfortable and going out presenting female, but I need to get over the fear of how it will impact years of relationships. Based on my previous choices and defining myself as a crossdresser, those relationships with family and friends have been more important than how I present, but I'm reconsidering that balance. I don't know if I want to do body modification, because as long as I defined myself as a crossdresser, those choices weren't in the mix. If I allow myself to drop that word barrier, then the view of the horizon changes and new options have to be considered.


Sarah, you can call yourself a gazelle if you want but that doesn't mean anything. What I am trying to say, is that you set your own limits and your vocabulary is yours to command. If you think you are only a crossdresser, then you are. If you believe there is more to it than that, there probably is. You are the one that drives your future, not suggestions from a therapist or anyone else. I think his whole intent is to get you to think deeper about yourself and your intentions.

Jorja, you put your fingers on the core of this question (more orangutang than gazelle though ;-) ). I'm thinking he is seeing something in me that I'm not, either by my blocking it or just not having the right tools to spell it out for myself. Don't know what the result will be, but I've not been on a journey for a long time, just moving in circles. I'm ready to explore my options and just have to build the strength to face them.


Sarah - I think I understand what you mean by limiting, but only if you are too influenced by the negative perspectives of others. If you are comfortable with your own description and what it encapsulates for you, I think that's a good place to be and a helpful feeling.

. . . snip . .

Glad to hear you're making progress too - that's the important part! :cheer:

Katey x

The more I look at how those I care about view gender, the less negative I see. Probably most of the negative perspective has probably been internalized and is being projected out from me, rather than in at me. My kids are the first priority and I guess we did a good job of raising them to accept and understand diversity. It's just how will they look at Dad in that situation. It should be okay, but it's always difficult to drop into the deep end of the pool for the first time. Thanks for viewing this as progress, I think it is.


. . . snip . . .
As the phrase goes:

The Only Thing That Is Constant Is Change...

DeeAnn

I've been pretty sedentary for quite a while in so many ways so even the slightest motion can seem like a big change in the world. Change is happening more quickly now and the speed of the wind in my ears and through my hair as I move along now is kind of making me dizzy and just a little excited, apprehensive, happy, and afraid. You know the normal stuff of life.

[ReineD]

I don't know if I want to do body modification, because as long as I defined myself as a crossdresser, those choices weren't in the mix. If I allow myself to drop that word barrier, then the view of the horizon changes and new options have to be considered.

Oh, OK, thanks for expanding. What I suggested was, if you stop thinking of it in terms of what it is called, and you keep a daily log about the choices you've actually made, "Went out today, wore such and such, felt great. Got up today and didn't feel like dressing up. Wanted to tackle that project instead and that felt great". Just go with the flow, record your feelings, and this will help you to assess.

If you're not sure about hormones, start doing research. Get an idea about what they accomplish exactly given age ranges of the people who take them. Assess whether or not the changes might be sufficient for what you want to accomplish and if the impact on your male sexual functioning is important to you. Ask yourself if you could live a public and private life perceived as a woman full time, or perceived as someone who is in between (if you do not want to invest in the feminizing surgeries and electrolysis) and yes, as you mentioned you would also need to assess the potential impact on your relationships.

Once you have determined a course of action you feel comfortable with, then you'll know what label to use for yourself.

I wish you all the best Sarah, as you sort through all of this.

[Sarah Doepner]

What I suggested was, if you stop thinking of it in terms of what it is called, and you keep a daily log about the choices you've actually made, "Went out today, wore such and such, felt great. Got up today and didn't feel like dressing up. Wanted to tackle that project instead and that felt great". Just go with the flow, record your feelings, and this will help you to assess.

If you're not sure about hormones, start doing research.

I wish you all the best Sarah, as you sort through all of this.

I need to get back to my daily journal, something that was suggested by a dear friend when I told her I was starting counseling. It had been a very good source of ideas and better than my Swiss cheese memory when I go so long between sessions. Thanks for the reinforcement on that one.

I've looked briefly at hormones, but with all my barriers up it was all superficial. Until I get past the immediate issues of family I'll keep that issue on the back burner since I don't know if that's what I want or need at this point.

And thanks again for your observations, suggestions and support. It really does help.

[Alice Torn]

Sarah, It is ok if you never reveal it to family, and risky if you do. I could not reveal it to my brothers, sister, or 94 year old very difficult father, They already hold a lot against me. I hope my brother does not find out through the internet photos, videos, or sees me in my car dressed. My life would be unbearable. I told a postal office cashier yesterday, and showed her some photos. She said, "you're a crossdresser." She said there are several in the town. I think i may have just seen one a few minutes ago in this library! Wig similar to mine, similar look to mine! I told the postal worker, i do it once in a while, but i ma a guy. She seemed a bit condescending, like she had loos respect for me some. Oh well, most won't get it. We just have to accept that most won't.

[Stephanie47]

I will agree with the counselor that using the term cross dresser may confine how you view yourself. It may also restrict how others see you also. I'm a little older than you and I do on occasion think what I will do if my wife were to pass on before I do. Yes, what will the kids think of their dad if they discover my wardrobe? I guess we can all say it will be their problem, since I'll be gone. I suspect maybe I would tell them so I could answer their questions, and, leave nothing to conjecture.

I would NOT blurt out and describe myself as a "cross dresser." I would tell them what I have told my wife decades ago. I like to wear women's clothing on occasion. I do not know why I like wearing women's clothing, and, long ago I gave up self analyzing myself. My fear of keeping it a secret is I do not want their last thoughts of dad to be something about the unknown. I don't want some immaterial image in their minds to wipe out forty plus years of being a dad. In some ways it then also becomes their secret. What would they do? How would they describe me to others? What the heck was he also doing? These are valid concerns. And, just identifying myself as a cross dresser seems to negate the vastly more important things I have done in life.

I do not use words to lock anyone in a box. I do not use words to lock myself in a box. Toss out the words "cross dresser." Let your personal feelings and emotions guide you.

[Teresa]

Sarah,
Some interesting points which I may have to consider when my counselling starts next week .
I don't plan to go dressed but I will take some pictures I think it shows where you are with your CDing. I was surprised at the encouragement but I hope there was also caution suggested with that . The label thing is bound to come up and that's why I'm going because I don't know where I am on the gender road and really would like a professional opinion.
I guess only you can answer how far you want to explore your female aspect but I'm surprised you've returned to the closet after the loss of your wife I would expect the opposite to happen, or it would in my case !
As for creating artificial limits perhaps if you rephrase that and consider your comfort zones, which at the moment is in a CD box back in the closet !