Can I still be a woman without wanting fancy clothes and glamour?

[Jessica EnFemme]

I don't know, but for some reason I don't care much about clothes, makeup and all that and yet still feel I am female.

Is this weird? I just want to wear comfortable clothes, not worry about glamour and boobs and all that, just live my life as I am. Look normal in public, that's all.

Who doesn't love dressing up in makeup and everything. But I'm middle-aged, divorced, and know I can't be glamorous anymore and accept it.

I'm pre-op and look at people like Caitlyn Jenner with her glorious top-designer outfits and I just don't relate. I just want to live quietly as myself.

I'm having trouble with this. I'm supposed to live as a female for a year, but does that mean wearing slinky dresses and pumps every day? Can't females be normal and wear what's comfortable? Like the normal women in WalMart? No makeup, stretch pants, just whatever. Aren't they still women though? Can't I do the same and still be a woman?

How did you girls get through that first year before surgery?

[PretzelGirl]

Nope, all you have to do is relate to being yourself. Gender Identity is what it is when you determine your internal sense of self is female. Gender Expression is what you wear, how you present, how you act. Two separate things.

Live as a female means to live as yourself. There is no one pulling a Miss USA grading system on you. Present as you wish. The living as a woman for a year thing is losing a little traction, but it really is about determining your real life and living it. I suspect there is a name change for you and telling others. Then living as Jessica. That's all, nothing more complicated, although that is plenty tough enough by itself.

[Lorileah]

I'm having trouble with this. I'm supposed to live as a female for a year, but does that mean wearing slinky dresses and pumps every day?

How did you girls get through that first year before surgery?


OK, kinda worried here because you seem to have a skewed idea of what being a woman is. Look around, do you see very woman wearing slinky dresses and heels? I wonder what your perspective is. Let's stop and consider what RLE is. You present and live as a woman for year. What woman? Any woman. There isn't a cookie cutter.

How did I survive? I just did what I needed to as the person I am. In my case that was makeup and heels and hair...but that was me. That is what is comfortable.

[arbon]

You don't need to do it like Caitlyn. I don't know why you would think so.

I usually dress very plain, without much or any make up. It's not a big deal really.
However would say it was important to look as feminine as I could early on for people to take me more seriously. But not to the point of making myself stand out by trying to look real glamorous or anything.

[Nigella]

There is a time for the glitz and glam, everyday life is not it. As already pointed out, look about you, check out all women, only a very small percentage are dressed to the nines on the high street in broad daylight.

Clothing does not make someone male or female,

[becky77]

Jeans and a comfy top most of the time, I do wear makeup everyday.
I wore heels at my friends wedding last summer and at a funeral in February, that's it.

Why do you think RLE is all glam? Who told you that?

A few years ago as I was waiting for my first appointment with the gender clinic in London, I was told (not by a professional), you should wear a skirt as they want to see you are serious.
I totally ignored that and went as I am, a skirt doesn't prove anything of who you are.
Yet I saw a few people who turned up over-done and they looked wrong to me. Time and a place and all that.

Be yourself otherwise what's the point?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

if you could see me you'd know the answer....old navy and boscovs.....yoga pants and jeans


I have specific advice....if you are for real, find clothes that SUIT YOU..... emotionally and physically... what makes you feel comfortable/good when you wear it? what accentuates your appearance to the way you like it?? (assuming that's feminine)


perhaps you don't want to appear feminine, that's ok just get clothes that don't accentuate your male features..

its easy.. as becky says, be yourself or what's the point?

[Krisi]

I don't understand why you are asking what you are asking. All you have to do is leave your home and observe "real" women going about their everyday tasks. "Real" women dress for what they will be doing. If they work in a high end office or high end retail store they might be all glamored up, but other women may be working in a grocery store, a factory, delivering the mail, etc. and they will be dressed for those activities. Go to the local mall and observe the women customers. You will find very few "all dolled up", especially ones your age.

Having said that, as a genetic male wanting to live and pass as a female, you will need to worry about boobs, hips, hair and enough makeup to cover any beard shadow. Moderate makeup goes a long way towards the illusion. It's not going to be easy, but what you are doing is not easy.

[Leah Lynn]

Caitlyn Jenner lives in a world that most of us will never be a part of. As all have said, just observe real life and dress accordingly. Okay, the People of Walmart vids will also show what not to wear. Blend in. If you feel comfortable in jeans, top and sneakers, then wear them. If you prefer a dress or skirt, fine, If appropriate for the situation. I know several cis-women that do not own a dress or a skirt. They still function in society.

Just be comfortable for the situation.

Leah

[Jorja]

I have always been told to live within your means. You are not Caitlyn Jenner. I assume you do not have millions to spend like she does. Do what you can with what you have and the rest will take care of itself.

[Badtranny]

You are in for a world of hurt.

Your post displays a profound misunderstanding of transgenderism/transexualism.

My name change was 7/12/2012 and I have yet to wear a slinky dress anywhere. Generally the only heels I wear are the heels on my cowboy boots.

You have somehow conflated being transsexual with being Caitlyn Jenner and frankly my dear, that's so far off the mark that I'm afraid you're in for a loooooong first year.

[PaulaQ]

A lot of us don't wear slinky dresses, makeup, and heels. There are plenty of women who never wear makeup, almost never wear any dress, much less a slinky one, and may not even own a pair of heels. Look, if you are a professional woman here in Dallas, you'll need to look pretty professional, which usually translates into a business dress or pant suit, at least a splash of makeup, and depending on your job, possibly heels. Dallas is really conservative though. If where you live isn't like that, or your job or industry aren't like that - i.e. you don't wear a men's suit to work now - you probably won't need that stuff.

I do tend to always wear makeup and a dress, but that's because I enjoy dressing like that, not because I think that's what women are supposed to do. (No heels though - flats.) I own 3-4 formal / cocktail dresses - I've used all of them. But I also have had events to attend that required them. If you don't, owning stuff like that is pretty dumb, honestly. (I also enjoy events like that, which drives my boyfriend nuts, because he'd rather be in jeans and boots, rather than a suit.)

There used to be gatekeepers to the transition process some of whom looked for hyper-feminine behavior before they'd let you pass to the next step. They don't exist anymore. There probably are some trans women out there who might tell you that if you don't dress in a highly feminine manner, you are doing it wrong. But you don't have any reason to listen to them. There is no one "right" way to be a woman - just whatever is right for you. Define yourself.

[Frances]

I wear jeans, t-shirts and flats all the time. I rarely put on any make-up. Caitlyn changed gender. I changed sex.

Jenner went from super masculine to stereotypical femine. One could feasably go from feminine male to butch tomboy. Any combination is possible. Any expression is possible too. It's all about being who you are and alleviating gender-related anxiety, not adding some.

Question for OP: Which surgery?

[prene]

I do not wear slinky dresses either.
I might if I had a sz 2,4 or 6 figure and was 21 years old. But I just want to be comfortable.
I do like a little makeup, jeans or jean skirt and just a nice t.
I do like the feeling of breasts so I wear attached forms but not to big and
I am not good on heels so 3" boots are my max otherwise just some ballet flats.

[Michelle789]

Jessica,

You are on this journey to be your authentic self. That is the only thing that matters. It doesn't matter what you look like, or how you choose to dress. You can be butch, tomboy, feminine, ultra feminine, whatever you feel is best for you. Personally, I love wearing dresses, stockings, and makeup, and long hair. I wear flats & boots, and not heels. I choose to dress the way I do because that is a reflection of how I feel on the inside. It is not some kind of uniform or dress code on how women should dress. Most women wear whatever suits them best, and if you take a look around you, you'll see that women come in all shapes and sizes, and that women dress from ultra casual to ultra dressy, from ultra butch to ultra feminine. And everything in between, which is the norm. Most women wear casual clothes but are not butch. Many are tomboys and many are feminine casual. Few are ultra feminine.

I've received plenty of compliments on my look. I've also received some insults - mostly from within the trans community and a couple of suggestions from AA to go with shorter hair. My second night out dressed as a woman, I was at a TG support group, and this one girl asked me if I was going to wear "normal" clothes to the meeting next time. All because she felt offended or maybe jealous that I was wearing a skirt and not pants. Maybe she felt my way of dressing was going against her femininst agenda. Maybe she was jealous of me. Maybe she just wanted to power trip. Maybe she felt that TSes should dress casually and CDers should dress ultra feminine. She also mis-gendered me and refered to me as that "tech guy" and later that night admitted she wanted to be 6 foot tall like me - she is 5 ft 9 inches. I've had a number of other people, mostly trans or in one case a trans ally, insult my clothes. I felt so hurt by these comments, coupled with this idiotic idea that comes from within the trans community, that dressing ultra feminine is for crossdressers and not for transsexuals.

This is so idiotic and bizarre. I felt so hurt that I never asked anyone except my therapist for any advice on fashion or makeup. Actually I never truly asked my therapist for advice. I just wore different outfits to my therapist's office and waited for her reaction. She loved every single one of them. I pretty much learned everything completely on my own, and I mentally put up a wall asking people not to help me. I kinda regret it, because part of me wishes I could sometimes get fashion advice from someone, or have someone to go with me for my first eyebrow waxing. I am crying as I write this now. I so wish I could have someone to help me out sometimes. I know I made good choices on my own and get complimented for it but, God, sometimes I just wish I could have some help sometimes. I'm so scared that any one who tries to help me is going to make me change my look to something more casual and Walmart appropriate, rather than enhancing and developing my style. I have not sought out any help because of these insults from within our own community.

I just want to tell you Jessica there is absolutely no right or wrong way to dress. Whatever makes you feel happy is what you should do. If you transition, please do it because you identify as a woman, and please wear whatever clothes feel best on you. Please choose a style of clothing that you're content with and not what anyone else is happy with. And please don't be scared to ask for help. I sometimes wish I could get help. If someone wants to change you then don't take their help. Just find someone who wants to work with you and not against you. Since you prefer casual comfy clothes, if you need help, feel free to have someone help you to find good casual clothes. Or maybe you can do it on your own. Whatever you feel is best. Just please don't be afraid to ask for help. And don't let anyone talk you into being or dressing as someone you're not.

I wish I could give you a big hug over the internet. From L.A. to Baltimore. Please feel free to send me a PM if you need to talk, ok :)

[Jessica EnFemme]

Thanks for all your kind replies!

I'm sorry but I don't think I explained myself well. I agree with you all, I don't see womanhood as being about glamour at all! I was just reflecting on my first therapist appointment (he'll be the one recommending me for surgery) when he said I need to "present myself as a woman for a year" and I was thinking about all the unisex fashions and what I was comfortable in day-to-day, and will he say I wasn't "womanly" enough during that year (because of his stereotypes)?

Or am I just overthinking this and worrying too much. I know, I should've asked him for clarification, but I just need him to approve it in the end and don't want to mess up by being too "myself" when they're expecting to see glamour or something.

It's my first time with this, obviously! Thanks for your kind words. I'm kind of a mess just starting down the path right now, but I'll get through it.

[Michelle789]

Jessica,

It has been said on this forum before, and I will say it again. All you need to do to present as a woman is to have a reasonably female presentation. Basically this means a few things.

1. Shave your beard, have a reasonably female hairstyle, and wear one article of feminine clothing. A short bob hairstyle is totally okay, long or shoulder length hair is not necessary. A casual female top with jeans is totally okay. Even androgynous clothing is okay. Some may argue that there is an overlap between some casual female clothes and unisex/androgynous clothing. Hint: Many women go with short hair and uber casual / androgynous / unisex style clothing and are still women.

2. Since you're presenting as a woman, use the women's bathroom. Now honestly this may be an issues in many states and I honestly can't offer advice for a transwoman who lives in an unaccepting state and can't use the women's room out of fear of getting arrested. You may want to ask your therapist on restroom issues. Here in California, the law is you use the restroom according to your presentation, so it's easy, use the women's room. If you're uncomfortable and a unisex bathroom is available you can feel free to use that. Also you can start locating unisex restrooms in your area. Many Starbucks, as well as fast food and non fast food restaurants, have Unisex bathrooms. Ok, at least here in SoCal. I don't know about Maryland. Just please don't hold going to the restroom. Holding it can seriously damage your health. I would best talk with your therapist or others in your local TG community on how to handle the restroom.

3. Go by a female name. Introduce yourself as Jessica everywhere you go, start socializing with women. Maybe you'll want to join a women's group at some point, although that is not absolutely necessary. But socializing with women as a woman is a great way to get experience.

4. Do everything as a woman, including social, errands, doctors, mechanic. Introduce yourself as Jessica. Tell them you're a woman, although you may need to explain to a doctor you're TG. I may be biased because in California, most places are TG accepting. Without a court order to legally change my name or gender, I was able to change my name and gender in many places. So many places have me on record as Michelle and Female, even though my name & gender are still legally male.

-Doctors (name & gender). This includes my dentist, primary care physician at the LGBT center, chiropractor, homeopathic doctor, and an urgent care center.
-AAA (gender only)
-Mechanic (name only - they don't use gender)
-Jiffy Lube (name only - they don't use gender)
-Club cards for Panera Bread, CVS, Walgreens, supermarkets (not credit cards, but club cards) - all under Michelle and Female
-AA phone lists (no legal issues involved, I am seen as Michelle and female. My name is Michelle on the phone lists. In my AA home group that elects secretaries by gender, I will never be elected a secretary for the Aug-Jan term which is for male, and I am eligible for the Feb-Jul term which is for females). I can attend women's groups as Michelle, and currently sponsor a woman.
-Sprint mobile phone (name - they don't use gender)
-Online accounts, even if they are paid with a credit card with my male name on it. This includes both free and paid ones. Email, Facebook, Amazon Prime, online MAC account.
-I will soon be getting a new driver's license with my female photo and gender marker changed to female. In California you can legally do this without a court order, although I still need to keep my birth name. My birth name is androgynous sounding so few people will bat an eye when they see my driver's license. I do plan on changing my name & gender through court order although it will probably be another 6 months to a year before I do that.

Now there are places where I still have to use my birth name & gender until I legally change it. This includes bank accounts, booking airline tickets (yeah the TSA is super strict), jury duty, my paycheck.

I don't know what the state laws are in Maryland or how doctors or other businesses operate out there, so every place you change your name/gender in without legally changing it you'll have to ask. They may insist you user your legal name & gender until you change it, so you need to check every time. At least here in L.A. most places let me use my preferred name & gender even though it doesn't match my legal name & gender.


But yeah glamour, glitz, and super feminine dress & appearance is absolutely not necessary. It's an option if you feel that is who you truly are, but it is not at all required. Most women don't dress that way. Casual is quite the norm. And if you feel like wearing a nice dress or doing makeup once in a while, don't let your age or physical features stop you from doing that either. There is no rule you need to have a feminine, thin, young body to glam it up. An older, overweight, masculine woman has every right to glam it up if she wants to. And it is totally possible to glam it up and still look age-appropriate. So don't limit yourself. Be free, be yourself, and be happy :)

I guess I'm saying that it's A OK to dress casual or androgynous. But if you deep down inside want to glam it up sometimes, don't let your circumstances stop you from doing so. Do whatever feels right to you.

They are not at all expecting to see glamour or ultra-femininity. If he does, than he is an outdated therapist and you should leave him and find another one. Any decent therapist will accept you as you are. Trust me, I am on the other end of the spectrum and worried about being told that I must wear jeans, sneakers, and casual top and that I would be rejected for wearing skirts, dresses, and makeup. My therapist, being the wonderful therapist that she is, will accept you regardless of how you present.

[mechamoose]

How did you girls get through that first year before surgery?

I'm not even going to attempt to answer some of your questions, as are worlds are so alien (while being so linked)

BE YOURSELF!!!

I'm NEVER going to "pass", but I still confuse clerks and mundanes. Eye-liner, pretty nails, nice clothes, built like a truck, beard.

Your confidence in yourself, regardless of how you look, makes it easier for the shy ones that follow after us.

"How DARE you assume I am male!!"

- MM

[Jessica EnFemme]

Question for OP: Which surgery?

Bottom. They're making me wait a year. I can understand making a 20 year old live out a year enfemme to be sure about something so irreversible, but I'm almost 50 and not having kids anytime soon. But okay, I can wait.


I pretty much learned everything completely on my own, and I mentally put up a wall asking people not to help me. I kinda regret it, because part of me wishes I could sometimes get fashion advice from someone, or have someone to go with me for my first eyebrow waxing. I am crying as I write this now. I so wish I could have someone to help me out sometimes. I know I made good choices on my own and get complimented for it but, God, sometimes I just wish I could have some help sometimes. I'm so scared that any one who tries to help me is going to make me change my look to something more casual and Walmart appropriate, rather than enhancing and developing my style. I have not sought out any help because of these insults from within our own community.
Thank you so much Michelle, that really touched me. I'm sad people within our own community can be so mean. I'll get ready for it, sounds like High School bullying all over again. I lived through it and you and I can again.

Regarding clothes, I'm a simple blouse-and-slacks, sweater-top-and-skirt gal, nothing glamorous, just trying to eke out my little life in my little house. Why can't I just be normal like everyone else? That's all I want.


I don't know what the state laws are in Maryland or how doctors or other businesses operate out there, so every place you change your name/gender in without legally changing it you'll have to ask. They may insist you user your legal name & gender until you change it, so you need to check every time. At least here in L.A. most places let me use my preferred name & gender even though it doesn't match my legal name & gender.

I posted my last response before seeing your latest, but thanks again Michelle, that is great information for someone like me just starting.

I do now identify as female for everything like you mentioned (other than government things because I'm not legal yet) and it is really empowering. I'm still learning these things as I go along. Thanks again for your great tips.

[arbon]

Bottom. They're making me wait a year. I can understand making a 20 year old live out a year enfemme to be sure about something so irreversible, but I'm almost 50 and not having kids anytime soon. But okay, I can wait.





A year is not very long, and if your serious you'll be having lots to deal with during that year. The more years you have invested into the male life....there is a lot of adjustment on the inside and settling into the new life. Surgery is a big deal, it's not the transition though, just one piece.

[Brooklyn]

Wait, aren't you THRILLED about the Real Life Experience? That's the part when you finally get to be yourself, remember? It's certainly not a hassle that you go through in order to have SRS/GRS. Do you have major dysphoria over the stuff down there? Because typically, trans-women wait until everything else is nearly complete before having that done; like icing on the cake. Like others said, it is MAJOR surgery, not always perfect, irreversible, and it probably won't change your life as much as other parts of your transition. As far as clothes go, shop on the women's side of the store and you should be fine.


Why can't I just be normal like everyone else? That's all I want.

If you're transsexual, you're definitely not normal, so enjoy being different.

[Michelle789]

I'll get ready for it, sounds like High School bullying all over again. I lived through it and you and I can again.

Sadly it's true. But don't let them get to you. Easier said than done, I have had so many days ruined over this crap and I am learning to get over it just now. Yeah it doesn't matter where on the spectrum we are, we're all prone to getting bullied.


Why can't I just be normal like everyone else? That's all I want.

Haha. There's no such thing as normal. We're all weird in our own way. You are no less normal for wanting to dress casual/androgynous than I am for dressing ultra feminine. Actually I believe that there are plenty of women that rarely or never wear dresses/skirts/makeup. Even the ones who do often only dress that way for certain occasions. Very very few women dress ultra feminine most of the time.

Enjoy your unique life and embrace your individuality.

[Jorja]

Why can't I just be normal like everyone else? That's all I want.


Believe it or not, Jessica. you are normal.

[jeri1973]

While I enjoy wearing skirts, heels, and overly feminine tops, I must also say that I love t-shirts, jeans/shorts, flip flops and more. My favorite here lately has been nylon running shorts and t-shirts. No wonder the girls wear them so often because they are soooooo comfy. It is very casual and I like it.

Yes, as I continue to move forward in my transition there will be days that I will dress all out but most days I will just be myself and wear what is comfortable. My therapist shared with me the other day that many ladies go overboard when they begin transition and RLE that it actually creates more issues which we do not need. She suggested that I dress similar to what most ladies in my area are wearing and concentrate on blending instead of shouting "Hey look at me, I am MTF Transsexual".

So, be yourself and wear what you want to wear and enjoy each moment of the day.

[Cheyenne Skye]

I don't have anything pertinent to add about clothing choices. I just wanted to say that I too live in the Baltimore area. If you have other questions relevant to the area, feel free to PM me.

[Michelle789]

Wait, aren't you THRILLED about the Real Life Experience? That's the part when you finally get to be yourself, remember?

Yes, this is the best part. I am so uber grateful that I get to do the RLE and live as a woman before having any major changes done. Prior to starting transition, I really had no idea as to what to expect. I really thought that I could not start living my life until after I completed SRS and transition. I realized that I just had no clue as to how transition actually works. It was my immaturity that I had before, and when I first started, my transition. I realized after presenting as a woman publicly a few times that I am starting to live my life authentically. Once I started living full-time (well 97%), I realized that I can begin to live authentically. I realized that I am living my life.

I started dating Cody in late June of last year. At a time which I had known him for three months. I had presented intermittently, yet increasingly more often, for about four months at that point. I had been living 97% full-time for only two weeks. I had not yet started HRT. I started attending a LGBT affirming church. I went to LA Pride and Trans Pride LA. I started going to movies after not going at all for many years. I double-dated. I started HRT last August. I came out at AA and went full-time in August. I celebrated Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, Valentine's Day, Easter, my birthday, my anniversary with Cody, 4th of July. I attend AA meetings. I go to doctors, dentist, mechanic, grocery shopping, running errands, the mall. I went to Las Vegas. I came out at work and I've been working as a woman for the past year. I eat my three meals a day. I started to re-decorate my apartment. I have not yet had SRS and have not planned mine out yet.

SRS is my last step towards transition. I haven't decided if or when I will get it. I know that surgery-wise, SRS is my last priority. I would much rather have FFS first, BA second, and SRS last. Why? I am a very social creature by nature. I care about what I look like. I just want to live life. Being with a transman makes it easier for me to have sex even though I have the wrong parts. Sex is a low priority for me. I would rather have a vagina, but I can still tolerate my penis. Maybe that is just me. I care way more about my social life than my sex life. I would rather cuddle than have sex. I go to the restroom sitting down, and prefer it that way. It is way more comfortable for me than standing up ever was.

Yeah, the RLE is truly the most exciting part. Being able to just live my life as who I really am is so exciting. I realized with maturity that I do not have to have any surgery to live my life. I do not have to put my life on hold for several years. Being able to live every aspect of my life as a woman is the best part. I just feel WAY more enthusiastic about life now. I care about life. I have more interest in socializing, doing things, and living life, than I ever used to have.

Enjoy the RLE. The RLE isn't a test. It isn't some druge work requirement for getting any surgery. It was my opportunity to actually begin living my true life. RLE is where I truly started to live. RLE is just living, and being yourself. I honestly don't even like the phrases RLE or RLT. This doesn't even deserve a fancy title. I am simply living my life. Screw titles and three letter acronyms.

[antonyio]

I agree with all also,be yourself,its not the outside that is fem,its whatyou feel on the inside,yes I sometimes wear dresses (but were luck to be blessed with been able to sew just by looking at something and readting it to work for me)most the time I am just in tracks or tights and sweatshirts etc,but I still feel at woman inside

[Jorja]

Bottom. They're making me wait a year. I can understand making a 20 year old live out a year enfemme to be sure about something so irreversible, but I'm almost 50 and not having kids anytime soon. But okay, I can wait.


I'll get ready for it, sounds like High School bullying all over again. I lived through it and you and I can again.

Some go to the therapist and after only a few sessions they are recommended for SRS surgery. Others go and they are told they need to wait for a year. This has nothing to due with bullying or the desire to have children or age or gatekeeping. It is because a person has not quite convinced the therapist of what they really want. Some think being a women is easy. Nothing to it. The year long RLE will show the person what they are up against. Changing gender is serious life changing stuff.

[Jessica EnFemme]

... The year long RLE will show the person what they are up against. Changing gender is serious life changing stuff.

I know, and I know the year-wait is for my own good. I'm sure I showed some doubt to my therapist after four decades living as a male and that's why he recommended the slow track.

Still, I'm going to get a second opinion on this. I'm almost 50 and have nothing to lose or gain by changing my gender. I work for myself and my clients won't care for the most part. I know it's not easy but I really don't care what other people think anymore.

[kimdl93]

Jessica, many of us may never have BA or SRS for health reasons. It may be physiological or financial, but for some of us, RLE is real life...as real as we can get.

[Michelle789]

The RLE is testing you to see how comfortable you are at interacting socially as a woman, how well you are able to start learning female behavior and unlearning male behavior, and whether or not you can take all the stress that comes with being obviously transgender in a transphobic world. We really face three challenges during RLE.

1. Learning to deal with all the good and bad that comes along with being a woman

2. Being able to learn female behavior and unlearn female behavior

3. Being able to deal with all the crap that comes along with being transgender, including getting mis-gendered

You need to be able to deal with all three of these in order to transition. Just telling everyone straight up. You WILL get clocked, and you WILL get mis-gendered. Be prepared to be mis-gendered at least once a day. Be prepared to get lots of stares. Be prepared for regular harassment for being transgender. I lucked out during my first year of transition that I faced very little of this. My luck changed, and I have been taking WAY more transgender crap than I was used to. What I am telling you is that even if you seem to escape lots of mis-gendering or other transphobic crap, you might escape it for a long time, and then suddenly after months, or a even a year, or possibly longer, your luck might completely change.

I have had to get used to the fact that getting "sir" all the time is the new normal, especially after getting a free pass from all these troubles for a whole year. Just saying, sometimes the most painful parts of our transition don't happen right away. Even when it comes to losing friends, I have heard people say that their friends stayed with them, and only after a year or so they lost all their friends. You may not lose your job right away when you come out, and after 1-2 years of being out you might lose it. Sadly, these things do happen. It's cruel, but you may have a smooth transition for one year and then a painful transition the next year. I definitely feel my transition has been much harder recently than it was this time last year.

I'm really trying to tell you that you need to be prepared for all this stuff, and that the hardship of transition may just sneak up on you one day when you least expect it.

[Eryn]

Real Life Experience is precisely that, experiencing life as a GG would. It means wearing clothing appropriate to the situation. If you're painting a room you're going to be wearing old jeans. If you're going to a private club you will wear a nice dress and heels. There is no rule that states that RLE means that you have to be girly 24/7. Most GGs aren't and we shouldn't be.

Caitlyn Jenner, despite her prominence, isn't a good example of RLE, at least in her public face. Who knows what she wears when the cameras are off, but when they are on she still seems to be having a dress-up party. I think that this goes with the territory.

Now, I'm not a great example of "traditional" RLE because by necessity I exist in both worlds. I have found it increasingly easy to walk the middle ground and find that I'm often perceived as female even when I consider myself to be in male mode. In some ways this is quite heartening because I'm achieving my goal of being perceived and accepted as female even when I'm not paying close attention to my actions. My attention can be directed to enjoying life as a female rather than focusing on simply acting female.

RLE shoudn't be perceived as a test or a barrier to transition. If you are not spontaneously seeking and enjoying RLE out of your own inner desire then the concept of transition may need reexamining.

[Starling]

Real Life Experience is just life.

:) Lallie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

are you saying you've had one therapy appointment...

and they said basically do a "RLE" for one year, then you can have surgery..
and your concern is having to wear pumps and high fashion slinky dresses
and your other concern is being forced to wait a year before getting srs?

I have to say i hope you know what you are doing.

[Alaina Ann]

You sure can sweetie. Overdressing is for special night outs. Other than that; bras, panties, a little make up, jeans, skirts, blouses, and dresses should do the job. Pretty much what you feel on the inside is the most important thing. You are as pretty as you feel so be happy with yourself.

[Badtranny]

Wait, there is no 'traditional' RLE. There is ONLY RLE.

We have to stop redefining things here. I can only imagine the look on a therapist or doctor's face when the patient starts asking questions about things they read on this dang board.

Everybody is welcome to live whatever life they want, but please don't come into the TS forum and talk about your RLE when you are NOT full time. The whole point of a Real Life Experience is to experience real life full time. It is not helpful to come here with stories about how you are perceived as female even when you are in "male mode" when people who are really transitioning without the benefit of a male mode are having real issues.

Plenty of us here know the difference but there are at least hundreds of readers who do not and they can easily be confused by those who are apparently damn well determined to offer their stories as 'almost' full time as a legitimate transition experience. It is not. I have actually lived the full gamut from part time, to almost full time, to except work, to completely transitioned, and I'm here to tell everyone that there is NOTHING that compares to being full time. It is a completely different life and once again, has absolutely nothing to do with clothes. I could literally wear nothing but men's clothes and my life would still be the same. There is no way any of the 'middle path'rs' could say that.

[Angela Campbell]

RLE is something that you should want to do. A good bit of therapy as well. I could have had the letter for surgery anytime i wanted it, but I wanted the full year ( more actually) before having such a major surgery which cannot be undone.

As Melissa said, full time is full time and nothing else is even close. Focus on transition first because you have a LOT to learn.

[LeaP]

Wait, there is no 'traditional' RLE. There is ONLY RLE.

...I have actually lived the full gamut from part time, to almost full time, to except work, to completely transitioned, and I'm here to tell everyone that there is NOTHING that compares to being full time. It is a completely different life and once again, has absolutely nothing to do with clothes. I could literally wear nothing but men's clothes and my life would still be the same. There is no way any of the 'middle path'rs' could say that.

Misty, the difference you are articulating make intuitive sense to me. I don't know why they do not to others. Another way of putting it is that you either have transitioned at the start of RLE or you are doing something else entirely. This so-called "traditional" RLE actually has nothing to do with the act of transitioning per se! You either transition or you do not. There is no pre-transition. At best, RLE is a test of one's commitment to transition. I hate to introduce a tautology, but it seems to me that if you haven't committed, you haven't transitioned at all, really. And while you will certainly experience some aspects of female life, I doubt that it could possibly go as deep and fundamental as your last statement suggests.

So just what are these part-time and other "RLE" experiences? Crossdressing.

RLE is not a transition test. It is a process requirement for SRS.

[Badtranny]

RLE is not a transition test. It is a process requirement for SRS.

Boom. Exactly. Before the psych folks sign off on the SRS (which is for all intents and purposes irreversible), they want to know that you have committed and have actually lived the life of your chosen gender fully and completely. Thus the term RLE was born to describe this process.

Now, whether or not any of that should be necessary before you're 'allowed' to have the surgery is a completely different issue.

Back to the OP (original post), the answer is yes. Clothes and glamour have nothing to do with a gender transition.

[Eryn]

Melissa, I don't agree with the attitude that others who have not suffered as you have should be silenced.

Everyone has their own path. Some go in a straight line, considering RLE to simply be an item on a checklist for access to SRS. Others may take a more graduated path due to their own feelings or commitments. Whether one goes "cold turkey" or moves toward full time life as a woman in more gradual steps is irrelevant as long as you reach the desired goal.

My path is to do what feels comfortable for me, which more and more leans toward the feminine side. I wear casual, comfortable clothes. I have long hair, earrings, and carry a shoulder bag. HRT is slowly changing my appearance. Increasingly, I am perceived as female and I become more comfortable and able to work with that perception. Eventually I expect that I will be perceived that way by everyone.

My one bugaboo is work. Mimi says "you crossdress as a man to go to work" and perhaps I do. In any case, my family obligations are such that I will continue to do this for a while. This is a sacrifice that I can live with in order to support a family that continues to be unreservedly supportive of me.

No matter what the hard-core folk say, transition does not have to be a abrupt, traumatic rite of passage. It is counterproductive to try to shout down anyone who happens to have found a more comfortable path.

[LeaP]

Interesting take, Eryn. I can't read anything you said into Misty's (or anyone else's) statements. Perhaps somewhat like you, I have taken a graduated path. I don't, however, confuse that with the step across the line into transition. The notion of being "in transition" (which I am) isn't the same as "transitioned."

"Hard core," "silenced," "traumatic," etc. - all are spin. No-one said - or meant - anything of the kind.

[Zooey]

Like Lea, I didn't really get any animosity from Misty's post. Her point, as I understand it, is that going full-time is the only to understand what it's like to be full-time. I don't think there can be much dispute on that...

I'm still presenting "male" at work, but it's getting so ludicrous that I'm working with HR on figuring out how to speed up my timeline significantly. I just got a major milestone covered, which is finding out that I (contrary to previous info I'd received) do NOT need to have my legal documentation changes done in order to change my badge and directory entries (email, etc.). This has given me a LOT of flexibility, which I intend to take advantage of. :p

[KayMcLaughlin]

I am still pretty new at this. I had my first experience with a short full time last week - when I went to Iceland. Got to live as Kay there for a bit. It was just a taste - and I am totally on board with what Melissa is saying about there being no replacement for the experience of real full time - but it seems to me like the RLE is the good part...? It was so nice to just be me, and walk around as me, and not worry about it.

A quick PS here - if you ever get a chance, visit Iceland. People just don't care there. Like a quarter of the nation shows up for their annual Pride parade, and the overall tone is so-so-SO much more supportive than even here in Boston that it's an amazing experience. I was "clocked", more than once - but few stares, and no upset people. Makes me want to move there. ;)

[LeaP]

Sorry Kay - "short full time" is an oxymoron.

[Jessica EnFemme]

are you saying you've had one therapy appointment...

and they said basically do a "RLE" for one year, then you can have surgery..
and your concern is having to wear pumps and high fashion slinky dresses
and your other concern is being forced to wait a year before getting srs?

I have to say i hope you know what you are doing.
Well that makes me sound like a fool, but you're pretty much correct. And yes, I do know exactly what I'm doing with my life!

I guess what rubbed me the wrong way was the therapist said for my RLE I needed to volunteer somewhere to present myself in public (I work out of my home office), and all I could think was having to do my makeup and putting in inserts just to go to some animal shelter to clean up dog poop. I also asked about going to the corner store to get a loaf of bread and he said yes, I need to dress up for there too. It just seemed dumb, I don't know. But I'm doing it and living full time, and it's difficult and I'm tired of getting called "f**got freak." I guess I'm a little stressed and probably not making good posts here, and I apologize.

[Frances]

Some people change a lot with hormones, some don't (physically). The point of the RLE is also to prepare someone for the eventuality of being called a f**got freak for the rest of their f****ing lives. It's important to figure out if transition is right and, if it's obligatory, if it's tenable.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Jessica based on your posts
I have a hard time beleiving you have any idea about what you are doing.

Based only on your posts either you are in for some very big nasty surprises or you are not serious.. you seem confident but I don't think you are well served by it.
RLE means you NEVER are not Jessica...and at some point that includes work, family..everything..
of course we may need wigs or forms to express it the way we like...my advice to you is that if even once you think about "guy mode" or feeling trapped in RLE that you understand the reason for it is to keep you from doing something foolish..
+++++

Eryn i am glad you are on a good path for you....but you have to keep it real ....i know you'd like to say that YOUR RLE is "not traditional" but that redefines RLE...RLE is about the medical process of transition...
its not about transitioning over an extended period or having the flexibility to explore your gender...its about living your one binary gendered life authentically..

Here is how i see it..
...if you need to transition, you need to....its the extreme of gender dyshoria...people that havent felt it, disbeleive it...
family obligations, jobs, love, marriage, friends, everything...you have to do your best to honor them but you also have to accept it may all go away, you have to push ahead no matter what..there is no exploration..
... its very scary and overwhelming...its torture, and i never thought i'd feel that feeling..but i did...and one of the WORST parts is not finding anything inside of yourself to hold onto...its freefall, its terrifying...i didn't want to tell my kids...i didnt want to give up my income...i didn't want to lose almost all my friends...i didnt want to transition

...i couldn't NOT transition tho...it made me feel deeply ashamed and guilty...
and if you NEED to transition, you NEED support...and i don't think its supportive to say "hey there are other ways to beat GD"...i would bet my house you don't have the 24/7 feeling of crisis that people feel before they either transition or plan to transition...

and its nice that not everybody needs to transition, its true there are all kinds of paths and journeys as we all say...its nice that lots of people seem to be able to hang on for all kinds of reasons, and in my opinion all the statements about "i have obligations, i love my wife, etc.." are either pink fog smokescreens, or they are coming from a place that has never experienced what many of us have felt....extreme GD is a nightmare

I respect that what you are doing is likely very difficult and your own feelings can get the better of you...but its not the same... you may say how dare i say how you feel...i am working backwards...i know tons of transitioners and cds and tg folk...all the transitioners say the same thing...we all know what we felt.... we all know we concluded we had no choice...

i think a better course for transitioners is to do it slowly if possible...maybe even you've worked hard to understand yourself and create a long term plan and avoid the desperation...i am all for that... but that's not a RLE...

What are you saying to the people that are feeling they have no choice?? Are you saying that you have a choice so they do too??? are you saying you are toughing it out so they can too???

[Kimberly Kael]

I guess what rubbed me the wrong way was the therapist said for my RLE I needed to volunteer somewhere to present myself in public (I work out of my home office), and all I could think was having to do my makeup and putting in inserts just to go to some animal shelter to clean up dog poop.

It sounds like the point is to get you out in a context where some social interaction is required, not that you be subjected to a demeaning task.


I also asked about going to the corner store to get a loaf of bread and he said yes, I need to dress up for there too. It just seemed dumb, I don't know.

You may want to get clarification from your therapist. "Dressing up" would only make sense to me here if your therapist meant "presenting as female." So dressing in guy clothes with no makeup and going out when nobody knows you're a woman? No, that doesn't sound like much of a real life experience to me, either. There are plenty of unambiguously female modes of presentation that aren't high glamour. Spend some time studying other women, especially those of similar ages and preferably those who have similar body types to you. How do they dress? What cues let you know they're women, even when they're in jeans and a T-shirt? That's all you need.


But I'm doing it and living full time, and it's difficult and I'm tired of getting called "f**got freak." I guess I'm a little stressed and probably not making good posts here, and I apologize.

You're dealing with a lot of pressure and stress, so no need to apologize. Everyone's circumstances are different so I can't say for certain why people are reacting to you as you describe but I'd guess that you don't look comfortable, and you're probably not dressed the way a woman with a lifetime of experience would for the circumstances. Transition is a learning experience that you can't let get you down. It's definitely easiest if you have female friends who can gently critique your makeup technique and clothing choices. Ideally, you should know someone who can go shopping with you to point out clothes that work well with your body type, that fit you properly, and are appropriate for the kinds of activities you tend to engage in.

[Badtranny]

Like Lea, I didn't really get any animosity from Misty's post.

Holy crap it is GOOD to hear from my girls!

Lea and Zooey especially because they are both right in the middle of this thing. I can't speak to Lea's sitch, but I had a lovely lunch with Zooey a few weeks ago and she is exactly who she says she is. She is also in a self paced transition and she has also not yet come out at work. The reason why you've never seen me take her to task on her transition is because she has never said she was full time. She has never misrepresented herself. She has always been very upfront with every post. In a word, she's been real.

Look folks, I personally don't give a damn who's who or who's what. I have friends who I adore that live across the whole dang spectrum. The only reason I try (mostly in vain) to police the authenticity around here is for the girls that are like I was in 2009. I was totally naive and VERY impressionable. I didn't know an RLE from an SRS. I was a brand new crossdresser, and I actually thought I was a drag queen. Believe it or not, after I discovered the joy of being Misty, I spent an entire Saturday afternoon walking around the Castro asking people in different shops where the drag queens got their stuff. Not kidding. I was straight up clueless. It took about a year for me to put the pieces together and this forum (TS) was a huge help because I didn't have access to people like Kaitlyn and Frances and a few others who aren't really around any more. (Hi Katesback)

Reading their posts really helped me to understand myself and my condition. It also helped me to see for the first time in my life that a real life transition was possible. These people were not talk show freaks. They were real people living real lives, and there were doctors, and there was some kind of protocol. This forum changed my life and every single day there's another dozen or so clueless questioners that roll through here.

Those are the people that I give a damn about. Those are the people who truly don't know any better and they deserve an honest accounting of what this shit is all about. Warts and all.

[becky77]

Although we can have real life experiences without being full-time, the term as RLE is a medical term and it has a specific meaning.
It means a period of time where you don't have the luxury of doing something as a man, it's a specific period to test how you can cope being a full-time woman. The end result is SRS and the hope is after RLE you know enough to be informed and not regret surgery.

So anything short of living the full experience simply isn't RLE.
Having to go do the grocery shopping as a woman (visibly), or facing possible abuse is part of the test. If you can't cope with it, then that tells you your not right for living as a woman and surgery should not be undertaken.

Erin, in my opinion Misty was explaining the importance of RLE she wasn't attacking your experiences. I understand you have a lot of experience and valid input, but while you are still able to hide as a man at work, you can't possibly understand what it's like for those of us who are full-time.

I think this is important to keep hammering home, not to you but to all the other readers that are looking for guidance.

Unfortunately there are a lot of dreamers, the ones that have a twisted view of being a woman, they want boobs etc, so will twist their story to suit. Suddenly going to a trans friendly venue or out clothes shopping with a friend is comparable to those fulltimers, it's obviously not and it's rather insulting too.

There are many that play the system to get what they want, two years later they have female genitals then go on a media rampage telling the world how their life is in ruin and how crap the system is and how they were poorly informed.
These same people probably cheated RLE.
It's there for a reason and it must be done properly to work, and to be done properly it must be understood for what it is.

All this I'm doing a non traditional transition is pure rubbish. Transition is a process and it's deadly serious, anyone not deadly serious about going full-time, should stop making up their own definitions and get real.

It's like wanting to brag you're a war hero, but you don't want to face battle!

[Nigella]

Thread Done, this has gone way past the original topic and RLE is a topic in its own right. A new thread will be started if members wish to discuss RLE .