Question from GG

[Lisa9099]

Hi, I was on this site a while ago (I'm a GG) and I posted about my friendship with a CD'er who is married and about 20 years my senior. We had struck up a friendship - we don't live in the same state and haven't met. His wife doesn't know about my existence (which is basically the reason why many were against it). I don't want to rehash how we met and go over all of that again, but I should say that we are still friends and I adore him and I believe he feels the same way about me.

The reason why I came back on here is that there was something that came up in our discussion that is a bit confusing to me. I guess it would be helpful to say that he basically just wears women's panties - all the time and also wears/enjoys women's lingerie (slips, nightgowns). He doesn't wear women's outer garments at all and doesn't wear make-up - he actually has a mustache/goatee. He told me that he would love to have breasts, but would never want to give up his penis. He has gone to :edit: sites and that is what prompted him to tell me that. I feel like he loves breasts so much that he wants them on himself. I guess the longer that I know him, the more that I will learn about him, but I'm wondering if asking him outright if he would like to be a woman (transgender) would be okay or if I should just let him come out with his feelings on his own in his own time. I guess I'm wondering what the consensus is about CDer's who are straight men and who would like breasts - are they really men who would like to be transgender and feel female inside, or do you still feel like you are a man but just want breasts?...not sure if my question makes sense. I will not judge him and do not care either way. I want to be the best friend to him that I can be and just wanted some thoughts from others. Thanks in advance for any thoughts/comments!

[TrishaTX]

I'll tell you about me because I can't tell you about him:)...I love lingerie and panties as well. I especially love putting on forms, it is very sexual for me. I would also never transition it is just not for me, but I understand that other do. I think he might still be figuring this out too.

BTW he should tell his wife, just my opinion.

[Lisa9099]

Thanks TXcrossdress. I don't want to rehash the "wife" thing because I'm sure he won't tell her about our friendship because he doesn't want a divorce and I think I'm the only woman that he can share this side of him with - he's in his seventies.

That being said, can I ask, even if you never would transition, in your head at times do you think that you would love to have breasts? I know all of this is extremely sexual for him too, so not sure if that makes a difference.

[Michaelasfun]

My .02 is that, as friends, you should just ask him whatever it is you would like answers to. An informal poll on here would probably just muddy the waters for you, since we all fall in different places on the spectrum , from guys who just like to wear female things to those who do wish to change genders, it's very unique to each person.

[Taylor186]

If you hang around here enough you will find that having breasts is a common fantasy for CDs. I have the fantasy but the reality makes no sense as I'm in guy mode 95+% of the time. I doubt if many, or any, CDs transition just to have breast implants.

And to your question: ask him anything you want about it. You'll find some people have spent much time thinking about it and others, not so much.

[Paulette]

First thank you for being a friend to someone who is in need. Open honest communication would be the best between you both. Since this is a cyber friendship, you have nothing to lose if he gets mad and stops communicating with you. Trust me when I say there are hundreds of guys on this site who would love to be able to talk about cross-dressing with an accepting GG.

[Lisa9099]

Well, I understand that for most CD's on here having breasts is a common fantasy and that most wouldn't transition. I guess my question is for the men would love to have breasts (even though they wouldn't go through with a transition), do they feel or associate more with being a woman, even if they wouldn't go through with a transition?

I do plan on asking him, but I wanted him to be able to disclose things for me when he's comfortable disclosing them.


First thank you for being a friend to someone who is in need. Open honest communication would be the best between you both. Since this is a cyber friendship, you have nothing to lose if he gets mad and stops communicating with you. Trust me when I say there are hundreds of guys on this site who would love to be able to talk about cross-dressing with an accepting GG.

Thanks for the reply, Paulette, but I beg to differ with "having nothing to lose". We really have become close and have a special bond and I think we both have a lot to lose if we stop communicating (which I don't think will happen as he said he's not one to get mad generally). I just don't know if a "straight" CD'er will be insulted if I ask if they feel like they want to really be a woman.

[Taylor186]

It is frequently the first or second question asked of every CD when they come out, or are found out. I've been asked it many times without offense taken. The other question is, "are you gay?"

[Lisa9099]

It is the first and most frequent question asked of every CD when they come out, or are found it. I've been asked it many times.

Does it make you feel uncomfortable when asked? He's not out to people - only his wife and immediate family know - and myself. I don't know if it's appropriate or not to ask even though I'm very curious about it.

[Gretchen_To_Be]

Hi Lisa. It's very selfless for you to help your "pen pal." I'm very grateful to have formed a friendship or two over the years. My wife is fantastic and very suppotive to a degree, but English is not her first language...and there are things we haven't talked about yet. Somtimes I want to express nuances I cannot, in the Spanish we speak at home. Plus it's great to get an objective view. My internet GG friend has been a tremendously helpful sounding board. To answer your questions--she can ask me anything and I won't be annoyed or embarrased. Regarding breasts, I think having breasts would be great, but I won't take that step until I transition. Being a man with breasts has no appeal for me.

Good luck!

[Lorileah]

good question. One that I think GGs often think about. There are a lot of things that people here "want" or think they want. It is how they picture being a woman...breasts, being taken and/or having a man, living like a movie star (oh wait that's me). What they don't think about is the day after. The fantasy is far better than the reality. Breasts are a forever thing. You can' try them on (OK you can but it costs a lot of money both ways). To address your question: if by transgender you mean transsexual...I would say probably not. At least at this point in his journey. We don't have any idea what is in his mind. Some people dream about having what they like with others, that would be my take in this case.

[nvlady]

Go ahead and ask, but he already told you he doesn't want to give up his male parts so the answer is no he doesn't want to transition.

[Lisa9099]

Thank you, Lorileah. I think you answered it for me, and I don't think I'm going to ask him unless the topic specifically comes up. I don't think any differently of him one way or another - it's just very hard for a GG to understand some of this - it intrigues me to no end though.

[Tracii G]

Transgender is not what I would call your friend he sounds like an underdressing CDer.
He would like to have boobs but that doesn't make him transgender.

[Lisa9099]

He would like to have boobs but that doesn't make him transgender.

Thanks for your reply. He does only underdress and if it makes any difference, it's all extremely sexual for him. He underdresses 100% of the time.

[Tracii G]

He sounds like he has a fetish for ladies underwear and thats about it.
Technically CDing yes but nothing to do with being a transgender person.
I think its nice you have an online friendship with the guy.

[Lisa9099]

Thanks Tracii G. Our friendship isn't just online - we talk on the phone and communicate other ways - maybe some day if he outlives his wife and if I'm still single, I'll meet him...but no intention otherwise. He's been a good friend to me and I want to be the same to him.

[docrobbysherry]

Lisa, this stuff is very confusing. Often for each one of us trying to figure out what we want and why.

I began dressing in my 50's. I wanted breasts and fantisized about full transition. This continued for over 10 years. Until I got my female suit. Which is like suddenly having a complete female body. Even when naked. (Photo below). It makes breast forms seem like training wheels. Within weeks my desires for breasts and thots of transition disappeared. That was 7+ years ago. I now realize I'm simply a crossdresser who wants to feel and appear female. Not be one. And, now I can whenever I choose!

I'm straight and dressing is often sexual for me. But, that's me and my journey. It's taken me 17 years to work this out. Everyone of us here has their own unique story! My point is; even if u asked him direct questions? He mite not be able to give u definitive answers because he's still figuring things out!:straightface:

248762

[HollyGreene]

I have some fairly decent forms and I love to feel them when I am wearing them. But of course, they don't have nerves that are connected to me, so the feeling is only in my hands. I often wish I had real ones so that I could experience that part of the sensation, too. It's never going to happen though. I'm male and I don't plan on transitioning or having implants. So for me, it's a fantasy that I shall just have to live with. The forms do a great job but it's the nearest I'll ever get to the real thing.

[gailbridges]

Lisa, I am going to reply to you in the voice of Dan Savage. (Sex advice columnist. EVERYBODY should listen to his podcast. http://www.savagelovecast.com/)

I don't get it.
You say you are close friends, albeit online-only friends. But you don't want to offend him?
How do you get close to someone without asking probing and intimate questions eventually?

It's really simple. You say, "Hello Dear friend.... Look, I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to ask you some more personal questions. I don't mean to offend you, and know that I will always be supportive of you, but.... Do you......(fill in blank here)?"

As someone above mentioned... we girls are DYING to chat with interested GGs. My god, you're like a Unicorn sighting.
And BTW, he may have been holding back for fear of offending YOU.
I think most tgirls here think that ALL GGs are pretty well disgusted by us, and our hobby. That our hobby/lifestyle/whatever is a waste of time, or insulting to women, etc.
Many of our wives just want to be "the girl" in the relationship. Hell, my wife has told me that she thinks she plays second-fiddle to Gail. (though I've never dressed in front of her, and we never really discuss Gail.)
I would love to have a wife that is supportive, but that is not terribly likely. And it appears that our situation is very common amongst the membership here.

I'm surprised you haven't played the "Girl" card. Meaning, females are talkative, and inquisitive. Get chatty with him!
How has this stuff not come up in conversation previously? I suspect that you might be one of those overly polite, socially accommodating girls..... always smiling... a people pleaser. And that's fine. I don't see why asking personal questions would violate those boundaries. That's how we become better friends.

Good luck, Gail

[Marcelle]

Hi Lisa,

As you can see from the plethora of responses . . . there is no real answer to your question as one aspect does no necessarily mean you are or are not Transgender . . . heck we can't even agree to disagree on the terminology. I would suggest that your friend is definitely a CDer with a penchant for lingerie. The breast thing is a wild card. Was he talking about real breasts or breast forms? I am assuming it was real breasts? As Lorileah posted, TG perhaps but TS not necessarily. I consider myself gender fluid in that some days I identify and present in my daily life as a woman and other days a man which puts me clearly in the TG spectrum leaning more toward the TS side of the house. However, I do not desire breasts of any form (implants or breast forms) . . . so you see, very confusing this thing we do.

Cheers

Isha

[Katey888]

Transgender is not what I would call your friend he sounds like an underdressing CDer.
He would like to have boobs but that doesn't make him transgender.

Hi Lisa - I think Tracii's comment got to the point... :)

I recall the discussion last time you were here - I think you should just keep talking - doesn't sound to me like there's much more going on than having you to share fantasies with... As Gail said correctly, many of us express the desire to share this part of us with a GG, perhaps as a sort of validation which is possibly what is being sought here...

Just keep talking but keep your distance and take care... :hugs:

Katey x

[Claire Cook]

I guess my question is for the men would love to have breasts (even though they wouldn't go through with a transition), do they feel or associate more with being a woman, even if they wouldn't go through with a transition?


Hi Lisa,

Well as you can see you've generated a variety of replies, and that reflects the diversity within this group. Probably many, if not most of us fantasize about having boobs, but for various reasons don't go for hormones or implants. For myself, my breast forms are an expression of my inner self ... and of course improve my female presentation and make my clothes fit better. I associate strongly with being a woman, but that is something within and is there no matter what I am wearing ... boobs or not. If that helps to answer your question ....

[Erica Marie]

He sounds like he has a fetish for ladies underwear and thats about it.
Technically CDing yes but nothing to do with being a transgender person.
I think its nice you have an online friendship with the guy.

I'm afraid I have to go with Tracii on this one. I know from my own experience, that I would prefer to be a female and honestly breasts are the last thing on my mind. I just want to be myself and be accepted for who I am an not how I look. It may be a fetish, it is hard to say without asking him. I have a friend also, we met once but are mostly online friends. He also feels that he should be female, wanted to go on hrt but his doctor turned him down, now alot of his online posts and behaviors lend me to believe that most of how he feel is fetish related.
Dont be afraid to ask questions. It may be good for you to know how he feels, and it may help him sort out his feeling by having someone that he can be totally honest with.

[kimdl93]

I suspect he has strong fantasies about being a woman, hence the fascination with lingerie and breasts. However, it doesn't appear that he self identifies as a woman.

[NicoleScott]

The "Big 2" questions come with the territory. There's nothing wrong with asking questions, except when they are obviously rhetorical and meant to be a statement ("are you going to wear THAT tie with THAT shirt?" - you don't answer, you change). If you want to know something, you ask.

[Taylor186]

Does it make you feel uncomfortable when asked? He's not out to people - only his wife and immediate family know - and myself. I don't know if it's appropriate or not to ask even though I'm very curious about it.

It doesn't bother me in the least. And, it gives me an opportunity to clarify where I am on the TG spectrum.

[Lisa9099]

Thanks so much to all of you for the answers - definitely a wide variety and all very informative.

I guess I'd say, rather than that I'm trying to be polite with him when we talk about things, it's more like I'm trying to be sensitive to his feelings and with all honesty, it's very, very confusing to me when I try to wrap my head around a "straight" man just gushing over the colors pink and ivory, etc. and then when he disclosed that he would love to have "big boobs," it just made me wonder if there's more there than that he underdresses. I see now that there's not a simple answer here.

Thanks again all...

[suchacutie]

I think the vast majority of us find it very satisfying to "talk out" our situations as a way to help ourselves in the process of self understanding. Any question in that vein would likely be welcomed.

As to the breast issue, all of us in the transgendered spectrum from incidental underdressing to full transition have some link to femininity in that process. Many threads have had a focus on the feminine "clues" or "cues" that at some level separate gender presentation, at least on the surface. Breast presentation is one of the obvious pieces of the gender presentation puzzle, along with generating cleavage. It has strong visual and physical impact, so I'm not surprised that your friend has that interest.

[Tracii G]

Lisa its OK to ask questions because that is how we learn.
You have been brought up in a world where girls do this and guys do that but there are so many of US that don't fit in that mold.
Its OK for a guy to like pink and ballroom dancing but society frowns on it just as girls can like brown and play football for example.
One answer can in no way cover all the possibilities or aspects of people that have gender related likes and dislikes.
As far as "getting your head around" an idea you need to quit wondering so much and just accept the way he is and enjoy talking with him.
There is no rhyme or reason why I am the way I am I just accept it and enjoy being myself.

[Dana44]

Well, I started with panties, then nylons, then a bra, then a skirt and top. Then makeup and so on. Go out with bling and a very nice ladies watch. Transition is not on my table right now and may never be. I am half female and male with more female hormones that shows my body to be female, yet am very male. He may be like that. Just able to present his feminine time with someone who loves him. Just ask him what is down the road and that you may support him in his quest for trying to understand himself. Oh heck I have a b size breast and want them bigger, Yet I will stay male and just want to be able to be feminine when I want to. I went to a conference last week and had to be my male self. Yet back in the motel was in my fem clothes to be comfortable. Sometimes I just want to be comfortable in male clothes and kick back and relax.

[Stephanie47]

I just got up and logged on for the day. I read your posts concerning the feminine garments he enjoys. Yes, for a woman to have a man "gush" over panties that are pink or ivory may seem unusual for a straight male, but, that is the nature of the "beast." My wife was somewhat comfortable with my desire to wear nylon nightgown and slips, as well as hosiery. Both of us gradually explored cross dressing, although, we had not yet discovered the underlying desires that were arising in me. Our DADT marriage arose when my wife found by accident that I had bought a red Vanity Fair bra. She could not understand why a man without "boobs" would wear a bra. Her query makes total sense. After that, and, the "discussion" that always arises, we slipped (no pun intended) into DADT.

I suspect your friend has some self imposed boundaries he has made to accommodate his wife's limitations of wearing feminine clothing. I would not ask him about it, but, I suspect he would really like to take his cross dressing further. I suspect, if his wife were to pass on, he would indeed buy a bra, and, all the other clothing a woman wears. I think many women will accept a man's fetish for lingerie; slips and nightgowns, But, like my wife, to go further really is getting out of a fetish and into uncharted territory.

To have "boobs" is a fantasy of all men who wish to emulate women. Just click on the postings of pictures on this forum and you'll see some fairly nice cleavage, and, various sized breast forms.

Let your friend tip toe through the tulips without encouraging any change in behavior. You really do not know how he and his wife are balancing all this out.

[PaulaQ]

Lisa,

It's fine for you to ask your friend whether he identifies as, or wants to be, a woman, in my opinion. The question may freak him out, and there's a fair chance the knee jerk reaction will simply be "no way!" regardless of their actual feelings on the matter. So if you ask this, I'd be very sympathetic, make it very clear that ANY answer will be fine with you, even no answer, that you won't judge. And know that they may well not understand their feelings themselves. That's very common.

None of the things you mention, other than a desire to have breasts, suggests much of anything. Wanting breasts is a symptom of gender dysphoria for many of us. The things that really determine where they are in terms of their gender are not the positive things, like wearing panties, but the negative stuff:
1. Do they feel bad about their body as it is? Do they like the person they see in the morning looking back at them from the mirror?
2. Does their dressing simply feel good, or does it alleviate bad feelings they have when they are aren't dressing?
3. Do they enjoy their life as a man? If so, what parts do they enjoy, other than perhaps sex?

There's a lot more questions one could ask. The negative stuff, the gender related bad feelings, are far more telling in my experience than any particular observable behavior, at least early on.

By the way, it's possible that they don't identify as exactly either a man OR a woman, but as some of both, one or the other some of the time, or as something else entirely altogether. I realize it's difficult to imagine such things. Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth.

[ReineD]

I suspect he has strong fantasies about being a woman, hence the fascination with lingerie and breasts. However, it doesn't appear that he self identifies as a woman.

This.

A lot of people have sexual fantasies that go beyond having traditional sex. You see this in the BDSM community a lot, other examples are furries, leathers, etc. See this list of over 400 kinks, including cross-gender:

http://fetishfuel.wikia.com/wiki/Examples_of_Common_Kinks,_Tropes,_Clich%C3%A9s,_an d_Fetishes

Before anyone becomes offended, yes there are obviously people for whom cross-gender expression is a question of identity and not a kink (or a mixture of both), but when it IS a women's-clothing or women'-body-part related kink, why is it assumed by many that there must be an identity component to it? :strugglin There is no question that people who are aroused when dressed in angora sweaters, cat costumes, or tight leather want to be goats, cats, or cows.

[Teresa]

Lisa,
I've read your thread and still can't understand the situation fully , at one point you say you adore him and at the end you just want to be his friend. To ask the questions you have so far does it mean you would like him as your your partner if the situation arose or are you worried about getting into a relationship where his CDing could be much deeper and it scares you ?
I haven't gone back on your previous thread but does his current partner know about his CDing ? It strikes me that he's tightly in the closet and is desperate to break out and at the moment he's in a pink fog ! He's trying to restrict his dressing because of a possible DADT situation hence only wearing underwear and yet he's fixated about breasts ! The fixation is not uncommon, many of us get over it by wearing a bra and forms as much as possible so it becomes more normal and less of a fixation . Also when you list the things he doesn't do, but that's currently , in the future he will more than likely want to progress onto outerwear, makeup , to most it's a natural progression .

[Lisa9099]

Hi Teresa, I'll try to clarify - I adore him and the reason why I just want to be his friend is that he's married. Would I be with him if he wasn't married - probably. If we ever were to be together, I'm not worried about getting in a relationship where his CDing could be deeper. If I had to wager my last dollar, I think it would go deeper if he was with a woman who let it go deeper. His wife does know about his CDing, but it's basically DADT. He has his own bedroom where he sleeps and keeps his lingerie (mainly panties, slips, nightgowns, bra's and forms). He literally has hundreds of them, hanging on all the walls, hanging from the ceiling - he sleeps with them all over his bed. He spends a couple of thousand dollars a month on lingerie - but he only buys a certain vintage kind that are pretty costly. It's easy to guess why his wife gave him his own room - although I think there's a better way - but it's not my marriage or house, and I don't even broach that subject with him as I don't think it would be fair to do. He has been doing this for years. It's just when he mentioned that he would love to have "big boobs," but keep his penis (those are his words), it just made me wonder if there was more involved than just underdressing. He also told me at the same time that he shaves his chest and legs completely. He's a great man and I have no issues with whatever he does - I can't say enough good things about him - but I just thought I'd come here to gain a bit more knowledge about what he may be feeling inside. I'm sure that he and I will talk more about it at some point, but I didn't want to inundate him with questions directly after he mentioned about wanting breasts and shaving his body.

[Tracii G]

Wanting breast is very common but I have to ask Lisa why does him saying he wants breasts but keep his man parts make you assume there is something deeper?
There doesn't have to be anything deeper its just how he feels.
Where a lot of people have problems understanding about all this is they think just because you do one thing it means other things will follow.
Here is an example of this train of thought:
A male likes to wear womens clothes so they assume he is gay.90% of CDers are heterosexual.
A male wears womens clothes they assume he wants to have sex change surgery. A large majority wouldn't even consider that.
A male wears womens clothes and goes out in public he is assumed to be trying to pick up men. again not many CDer's would take the chance in getting into a brawl with a guy that obviously would like to harm them.
All of these are false impressions that somehow have been drilled into the minds of people over the years.
You need to let go of those old stereotypes and not try to over analyzing things.

[Lisa9099]

Hi Tracii G. The reason why I am wondering if it's something deeper is because I became aware that he was on a site that had to do with males that became women and left their penis' intact. It's a term not allowed here, so it was taken out of my initial post. Those sites seem to be more "gay" oriented. I hope I'm not offending anyone at all - it's not my intention, but that's what prompted me asking my question on here, and because he's a straight man, I didn't want to offend him by asking him too much about it - I didn't want to make him uncomfortable. I saw that he mistakenly "liked" this particular site on his FB - he's not computer savvy and I had to tell him how to "unlike" it as his children and grandchildren, employees, etc. are on his friends on FB and because he's not "out" - I felt like I really had to tell him - which I think he appreciated, but that's how this all came up. I should note too that he did tell me once before that he would love to have breasts, but it was the type of site where he was looking at men with breasts that confused me a bit with his mindset.

[LilSissyStevie]

One of the useful parts of autogynephilia (AGP) theory is it's typology. According to this typology there are four (sometimes five) types of AGP:

Transvestic - arousal by the thought of wearing women's clothing. (obviously the emphasis of this forum)
Anatomic - arousal by the thought of having a woman's body (wholly or partially)
Behavioral - arousal by the thought of participating in feminine behavior
Physiological - arousal by the thought of having woman's biological functions (a forbidden subject here)

The fifth type, Interpersonal, can be considered to be some combination of the other types but none of the other types require any interaction with others. Usually around here Interpersonal AGP is expressed as being "bi when dressed" or "male lesbian," etc. It's the fantasy of having sex as a woman. Most AGPs are a mixture of the different types but not necessarily. But, this typology does help explain why we aren't all on the same page here. People who are pure anatomic AGPs, for instance, have no attraction to crossdressing.

So the point here is that your friends fantasy of having breast (partial anatomic AGP) is no more meaningful than his wearing dresses (transvestic AGP). It's just a fantasy - until it's not.

[Allisa]

O.K. I've read the other responses, but for me it's simple I think I would like to have breasts, but society says no, men don't have them. I can see where they would cause a problem in so many situations. I just think I would like them that's all. I love to wear my forms when presenting female so why not the real things when in guy mode? I know I didn't answer your question but maybe somewhat I did.

[Tracii G]

Lisa I like the fact that this site is not like a lot of other sites that deal with CDing.
Its more a clean family type place that deal with this subject.
The other sites are very seedy and gross and deal with the porn/erotic side which I want no part of.
I can see someone trying to get a better understanding ending up on sites like that and thinking the person they know that CDs is some kind of pervert.
Its the internet and everything is out there but this place is just the best.

[Jilmac]

Like your friend, I wear panties 24/7. I also love wearing bras and women's outer clothes. I would love to have real breasts but still would never transition. Although at the age I am now they would sag too much and wouldn't look very sexy.

[Teresa]

Lisa,
I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of members here haven't visited sites you talk about at some point ! Initially they can confuse and make you think that you may like to participate but the novelty wears off and the feelings usually go away.
I shave all my body hair now apart from around the groin area my wife knows , initially she asked if my problem was getting any worse ? I didn't stop with that comment now she doesn't say anything so she's either getting use to it or storing it up for ammunition in the future ! Either way I do prefer it now but it doesn't mean anything more than feeling good and looking good when dressed ! Male hair is ugly which you realise when you let it grow back !

[sometimes_miss]

or do you still feel like you are a man but just want breasts?
then

If you hang around here enough you will find that having breasts is a common fantasy for CDs. I have the fantasy but the reality makes no sense as I'm in guy mode 95+% of the time. I doubt if many, or any, CDs transition just to have breast implants.
^this. Just because we have fantasies about something or feel the desire to do something, real life is different from fantasy, and just because you have the desire for something doesn't mean that the reality of it happening would actually be enjoyable (having been able to try out some of my fantasies I have learned that many things should be left to fantasy). When I wear female clothing, of course I want to have breasts, it's simply part of what I'm feeling at the time. Doesn't mean that I'm going to rush out and start HRT or get implants. But I won't say that I don't enjoy very much having just enough 'up there' to almost fill a B cup (of course only in a select few bras, lots I wouldn't even come close).

That said, I think that we should all stop trying to label everything. What's gay, straight, what might become gay or stay straight, really doesn't matter. What matters is whether two people like each other. go with that, and do whatever each other enjoy. Life should be about having fun when we can. We work hard enough, our time off shouldn't have to seem like a chore or restricted because of what the rest of the world thinks. Example. If a girl likes 'greek'(for lack of a nicer word), no one says anything about it. But if a guy wants to play her part, and she play his, all of a sudden everybody assumes he must have some subconscious gay agenda. Why? He's with her, and is turned on by being with her, doing things with her. They're both having a good time. The big problem as I see it, is with women. Yes, women. Because when a woman sees feminine things about a guy, it almost invariably turns her off, and if he's heterosexual, leaves him with absolutely no options. So until we stop labeling every bit of attire and every behavior as distinctly male or female, we'll wind up with this dilemma.

[PaulaQ]

The reason why I am wondering if it's something deeper is because I became aware that he was on a site that had to do with males that became women and left their penis' intact. It's a term not allowed here, so it was taken out of my initial post. Those sites seem to be more "gay" oriented. ... but it was the type of site where he was looking at men with breasts that confused me a bit with his mindset.

1. We aren't men with breasts - we are women. Understand this, if nothing else, please.

2. A lot of us do not have genital surgery. There are a variety of reasons for this, the high cost being a big one. Also, not all of us are uncomfortable with having a penis. There's a lot more to being a woman than having a vagina.

3. The men who like us aren't gay. I'm not some type of ultra-gay man. They are typically straight or bisexual. Gay men like - wait for it - men. There's a lot more to being a man than having a penis. Being smooth, soft-skinned, feminine - these are not things that attract most gay men.

BTW, referring to trans women as "men with breasts" is intensely offensive. I know you weren't aware of that, but now you are.

Another thing that might be confusing you - gender identity / expression are unrelated to sexual orientation. I know trans who came out to the world as gay men. Then they transitioned. They are now straight women.


One of the useful parts of autogynephilia (AGP) theory is it's typology.

There are no useful parts to the theory of autogynephilia. It has been pretty thoroughly debunked. Ray Blanchard, and like two other people take it seriously.


It's just when he mentioned that he would love to have "big boobs," but keep his penis (those are his words), it just made me wonder if there was more involved than just underdressing.

There may be. However, another salient question is this - even if there is more going on with this man than just CDing, and he has a feminine gender identity - is he miserable enough to transition? There are, I venture, a number of CDers on this forum who might transition were the social and other costs much lower than they are currently. But given all the crap that happens to most of us who transition? No freaking way they'll do it, although they are pretty unhappy.

So how unhappy is this guy with his life as a man?

Some of the things you list about him are definitely hints that there might be more going on. But none of them are definitive, not even close.

[Krisi]

A "straight male" who wants to have breasts is a person who hasn't thought things through. While it is a common fantasy, a straight male just can't function in society with female breasts. He would be considered a freak. Just imagine the stares and comments. Or stranger asking about them.

That's what breast forms are made for. Put them on when you want to, take them off when you need to.

[ReineD]

The reason why I am wondering if it's something deeper is because I became aware that he was on a site that had to do with males that became women and left their penis' intact. It's a term not allowed here, so it was taken out of my initial post. Those sites seem to be more "gay" oriented.

Yes, there are a lot of people who go on those sites for sexual fetish. They usually do not identify as homosexual (whether they are or not can be debated in a separate thread).

In some communities (i.e. BIID), there are people for whom it is sexual, while others feel it is a part of their inherent identity. And in other alt communities (AB/DL, furries, leathers), in addition to the sexual or identity motives, there are also people who do it just for fun and relaxation. This holds true for people who dress in the clothing culturally assigned to the opposite gender as well. There are men who are sexually motivated to engage in feminine expression and some of them do fantasize about having breasts or they fantasize about having sex with a person who has breasts and a penis, AND there are birth males who do identify as women, and who want or need breasts for reasons of gender confirmation.

There is no definitive test to determine underlying motives. It is all based on self-assessment. You just need to believe your friend. If he says it is sexual, then it is sexual. It is false to believe that every male-bodied individual who wants breasts is transsexual and identifies as a woman.

IMO it is as ridiculous to suggest to a person who fantasizes about having breasts for sexual reasons, "No ... you're in denial, you are in fact TS", than it would be to tell a TS who wants breast augmentation surgery, "No ... you're just rationalizing, you are in fact doing this for fetish".

[Dena]

Hi Tracii G. The reason why I am wondering if it's something deeper is because I became aware that he was on a site that had to do with males that became women and left their penis' intact.

Sounds to me like he is sharing his fantasies with you. I doubt it goes much deeper than that.

[Lorna]

For me, I would love to have breasts - but only so that I could better enjoy the feeling of wearing my bras. I wouldn't want them permanently because I don't want to present as a woman. Likewise, it would be wonderful not to have the penis - but only so I could properly experience wearing a straight skirt without the worry of the "bulge" - but I wouldn't want to be without it permanently. Other things I would like are bigger hips and narrower shoulders - for similar reasons. I can't, of course, actually have any of these! However, I can use false breasts, I can disguise the bulge with a pantie girdle or increase the hips with padding. So, if I want to get as close as possible to feeling the clothes as a woman would feel them but don't want to be a woman then I have to compromise.

[Lisa9099]

I want to thank everyone for all of their insight. He and I did talk more about it and I think there's varied reasons but, mainly, what I got from what he said is that it's very sexual and when he dresses in his lingerie, and if he masturbates, he'd also like to have breasts to play with - it's just part of the whole experience. I won't go further into detail, but it would just make a more erotic experience for him.

I have to say again that I do appreciate all of the feedback to my question. I can't state enough how confusing it can be for someone like me, a female (GG), to understand the mindset of a man who CD's.

[SharonDD]

My thoughts and feeling/wants often change. I don't know myself most times what I want or who I am. Ask me if I want boobs yes, transition yes in a perfect world. Anyway he might not have a straight answer either. Thanks for being his friend. Ask him and accept what ever he says as I bet he doesn't know either.

[TrishaTX]

That being said, can I ask, even if you never would transition, in your head at times do you think that you would love to have breasts? I know all of this is extremely sexual for him too, so not sure if that makes a difference.[/QUOTE]


For me no, I love being a man, when I am a man...and I love being a CD when I am a CD, the most important thing for me is being accepted, but I guess that is for everyone!

[Dena]

Thanks so much to all of you for the answers - definitely a wide variety and all very informative.

I guess I'd say, rather than that I'm trying to be polite with him when we talk about things, it's more like I'm trying to be sensitive to his feelings and with all honesty, it's very, very confusing to me when I try to wrap my head around a "straight" man just gushing over the colors pink and ivory, etc. and then when he disclosed that he would love to have "big boobs," it just made me wonder if there's more there than that he underdresses. I see now that there's not a simple answer here.

Thanks again all...

Our society does not encourage men to explore their feminine interests (should they have any). If they do, most hetrosexual men are limited to experience femininity vicariously through their partners. This is also something most men don't talk about. You may be the only person he's shared this with, and if so he may not be clear and precise in his communication.

I have no interest in transitioning, and have certainly fantasized about growing my breasts. When I was in jr high I was presented with some anti drug propaganda that suggested that teenage males who smoked pot could grow breasts!!! I thought that would be so cool! (didn't work for me)!

[Tracii G]

Lisa the main thing to do it toss out all the pre conceived notions about CDing that you have been taught and start with an open mind.

[Rachel05]

I have dressed since I was 8yo so for me that is getting on 50 years of crossdressing, I love wearing all forms of female clothing whenever I get the chance and I still adore the feeling I get from putting on my bra and filling it out, but that is as far as it goes for me, I have never once felt like I wanted to take it further and become transgender, but that is just me.

I have a partner now that I told about my cross dressing once we had become close, she was quiet at first and then slowly she began asking questions and I answered them as she asked them, then one day she came out and asked the question about me wanting to become a woman and we had the discussion and she got the answer that no I didn't and I truly don't, but I will take every single chance I get to dress or underdress because it is who i am, it is part of me, I guess difficult to understand maybe for someone on the outside, but for me dressing is dressing, I like being a man dressed as a woman, it makes me extra happy, it makes me feel nice inside but that is as far as it has ever gone for me, the need for breasts is to make the clothes look nice on me and make me feel and look as womanly as I can while I am dressed

What I would say to finish is that I love having the freedom with my partner to have the discussions, she can ask anything and I am more than happy to engage in detailed discussion, part of the problem I had for many years is not being able to discuss my dressing and having to figure things out all on my own, very difficult in my teenage years and my 20's

He is lucky to have you and my guess is that if you ask, he will more than likely be happy to discuss - I very much do wear dresses and outer garments and just feel amazing in heels by the way

[notready4public]

Lisa, I am very much like your friend. I like to wear sexy lingerie. I never go out in public dressed but I have worn full women's clothing more than once, in my bedroom with my SO. I have a goatee and a shaved head. But I personally do not want breasts. I mean, I am a little heavy and have 'man boobs' but I wouldn't like having implants or taking hormones to help me grow breasts. I don't own any forms and don't really care to.
As for asking him, if you are truly friends you should be able to ask him anything without it creating drama. That's what friends do. If he has a problem with his friend asking him the hard questions he should really re-evaluate. You are curious and you are having trouble understanding that aspect. He should be willing to tell you his honest feelings and ideas, and you should feel comfortable asking questions without fear of upsetting him.