vernacular argument - CD vs TV

[AbigailJordan]

I'm sure this has probably been discussed before, but personally, I am surprised by the number of people who seem to draw a distinction between the terms of crossdresser and transvestite.

For some, the distinction appears to be between simply wearing a nice dress and heels, and presenting fully en femme.

For others, the difference between the two is the frequency of dressing fully.

For others still, the difference is whether or not they allow others to see them en femme.

Now personally, for me, the word transvestite, translates almost literally as cross-dresser. trans - latin prefix meaning across or through. vestite - latin inflection of vestitus meaning clothing or raiment.

I am a crossdresser. I'm not 24/7, I only dress fully en femme infrequently, I wear feminine clothes almost all day every day even in guy mode. I am a transvestite.. well, actually I'm an executive transvestite (Izzard fans will understand). I just don't get why so many people object to the term transvestite whilst still having pride in being a crossdresser.

So, how many of you see a difference between the two terms (whether etymological or socially perceived), and how many of you would be more offended to be referred to as a transvestite rather than a crossdresser?

[Teresa]

Abigail,
Yes your translation is correct , also there is no sexual reference in the literal translation.
There have been so many posts on this subject , maybe try going back through a few in the archives to see how members feel about the subject, it has become heated on occasions !
The other aspect is members not liking the labels , to me we need something to guide us and I'm afraid labels and boxes are sometimes the best we can do !
Sometimes I feel like the , Sawing the Lady in Half " act because I don't always fit in one box ! Some people also say forget labels just be yourself but that's OK until you need to explain it to others, we may accept ourselves but others aren't so understanding !

[Mollyanne]

For me, the term CD is more accepting than the more clinical term transvestite. Either way, I prefer to be dressed as a female and act accordingly. I also HATE when labels are applied.

Molly

[Katey888]

I think a lot of it is cultural, Abi...

I'm expecting (generally... :)) North American culture will be less accepting of the term than European, possibly because of the stigma associated with transvestism when it was considered a psych disorder - for some reason we seem to be less concerned about that aspect...

Frankly, by now I could care less what anybody called me, or any of us... we all have our quirks and foibles that make us individuals - I think it's ultimately more important that we're just accepted for who we are as those individuals... :)

Katey x

[Kate Simmons]

The answer is simple and based in tech. Years before we had CD's we only had TV's. Simple, right?:battingeyelashes: :)

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Abigail, Like it has been said before, Save the labels for soup cans.

I'm just a guy that loves to dress as a lady.:daydreaming:

[mykell]

i suggest you try this, do a web search, transvestite first, crossdresser second, and transgender third....

for me it will be all of the above, its a huge spectrum and been a long road of discovery.....
but when im here Mikell is preferred......

[kimdl93]

The answer is simple and based in tech. Years before we had CD's we only had TV's. Simple, right?:battingeyelashes: :)

Brilliant!

[Ineke Vashon]

CD vs TV:

TV might be less confusing:
Televison
Tow Vehicle

CD
Compact Disc
Certificate of Deposit
Civil Defense
Corps Diplomatique

Ineke, founder,
Ass'n to eliminate confusion:eek:

[CynthiaD]

Years ago, "transvestite" was the only term used. But the word gained some negative connotations, and seemed too formal and clinical to many people. "Crossdresser" sounds more bland and ordinary, without the negative connotations. But the literal meaning of the two terms is identical.

[Cheryl T]

As Cynthia said, when I began this life many years ago the only term was "transvestite".
Over time it became used by and associated with the porn industry and many began to use "crossdresser" to describe their dressing. Both mean the same thing but the distinction comes from them denoting the same habit, but having different connotations.

[Nadine Spirit]

i suggest you try this, do a web search, transvestite first, crossdresser second, and transgender third....


Partly do to this, I prefer TG. Though I have referenced myself as all three of these in the past.

[LucyNewport]

I was always led to believe that "crossdresser" was more palatable to us puritanical Americans because the term "transvestite" was associated with sex, like fetishistic transvestism and whatnot. You know, a crossdresser is a lady who lunches while a transvestite is a dirty hoo-ah...

[Isabella Ross]

I swear this is the last time I respond to one of these definition posts. So, for the last time: I am Isabella. I am a crossdresser. I am a tranvestite. I am both or either of these things because I am transgendered!

[Katie01]

Crossdress is also gender neutral. It can describe mtf or ftm equally. Plus, tranvestite is so 20th century! Makes me think of pulp magazines and Ed Wood. Haha

[Amanda M]

Is all this really necessary? Sometimes I wear a dress, some times separates, some times total drab.

You see. I don't care. I'm just a person. Please, especially on here, don't let us get screwed up

[AbigailJordan]

I don't recall applying labels to anyone, some seem to think I have. But let's be honest, as much as we may feel no need whatsoever for labels, society is still conditioned to attach ones that help them to deal with their identification issues. The post was more about whether people are more offended to "be labelled" one term as opposed to the other, especially when i see people posting "I'm a crossdresser not a transvestite". just seems like a silly distinction, and is in fact self application of a label.

i'm not asking people to categorise themselves, I was just wondering if the general feeling towards the "archaic" term was as strong as it seemed from reading the posts on here. And it seems it is.

Thank you ladies for your responses.. Luv you all xx

[AllieSF]

As Katey said, it is partially is cultural differences/definitions, where transvestite was once used more commonly in the UK and meant what we define today as crossdresser. I personally like labels as they give me a starting point of knowledge that is very open to refinement as a conversation, written or verbal, develops. I personally do not care for the term transvestite because as someone said here it has roots in the USA as being more sexually oriented, like fetishistic transvestism. When I live in South America, the term "transvesti" referred to transgenders but really was used for a lot of the trans prostitutes that would walk the streets and highways looking for their next tricks. My opinion was formed from my personal experiences, not any definition/forum based knowledge, and my experience with the term came about long before I ever thought of crossdressing.

[Krisi]

For me, the difference between being called a crossdresser or a transvestite is similar to the difference between being called a prostitute or a *****. "Transvestite" or "*****" being more degrading.

It's personal, I am not trying to speak for others.

edit: I see that my words have been replaced with asterisks. Apparently they are inappropriate. You will have to figure out what I originally typed. It begins with a "w" and ends with an "e". I don't mean any harm, I was just trying to answer the original post.

[Confucius]

I know the word means the same thing, but the term "transvestite" does have some derogatory baggage. It's an older term used back in a time when the public understood "transvestite" as a mental disorder and potential psychopath. In contrast, the public understands crossdressers as gender nonconformists who are challenging social convention.

[Mayo]

the term "transvestite" was associated with sex, like fetishistic transvestism
Basically this. It is a paraphilia, which is an 'unusual sexual interest' directed toward an atypical target (in this case, wearing the clothing of the opposite sex); the word is a psychiatric term and as such medicalizes (and therefore implicitly casts as unhealthy or abnormal) a behaviour which many people feel is not something that needs to be reversed or corrected. This is also how many transgender people feel about the term 'transsexual'.

[Adriana Moretti]

again??????? ......in todays world the word tRansvestite is dated...unless you are over 50.....i still use the word tranny....which PI$$ES people off to no end....but it's meant as a joke and I only use that word after 2 AM to make fun of myself and every other tranny train wreck still up, drunk and partying....transgender is the new "word', 'label" or whatever you wannna use. But I wish most people would stop using that word transvestite....cause its falling off....YOU are the only one keeping it around.....yes....you.....unless its after 2am.....then all bets are off....but stop already...STFU

[Krisi]

"In contrast, the public understands crossdressers as gender nonconformists who are challenging social convention."

No, I don't think so. First, the public does not understand and second, I (and I'm speaking only for myself here) am not "challenging social convention". I dress as a female because it makes me feel good. I have no message to anyone, nor a challenge.

[Lori Kurtz]

I was always led to believe that "crossdresser" was more palatable to us puritanical Americans because the term "transvestite" was associated with sex, like fetishistic transvestism and whatnot. You know, a crossdresser is a lady who lunches while a transvestite is a dirty hoo-ah...

Both crossdresser and transvestite fit me fine--I'm comfortable with either. But as has been pointed out, the two words have some different connotations. Because of the intense fetishistically sexual aspect of my dressing up, I'm drawn to "transvestite." I love being a dirty hoo-ah.

[AbigailJordan]

wow.. so much anger over a word.. and all it seems because of what people who are now dead used it to mean.

As long as a mere word has the power to provoke such negative emotion, then the whole world holds your life in their hands.

And actually, The Circle, a set by Eddie Izzard will be keeping it around on DVD long after I'm gone.

[Mayo]

As long as a mere word has the power to provoke such negative emotion, then the whole world holds your life in their hands.
Words do have power. That's why it's up to all gender-variant people, including CDs, and allies, to change how those words are perceived and what connotations they have.

[reb.femme]

Hi Abigail,

I've not read any of the other replies, as I wanted my own answer to be one that was without prior influence.

For me the two are synonymous. My only distinction would be that tranny has been and still is a derogatory term when used toward us by those of a mean disposition. So whilst crossdresser seems a friendlier term to my ear, I happily embrace both because I look a million dollars when glammed up (the UK equivalent of looking 666,000 pounds just doesn't sound right). :heehee:

Rebecca


Having now read the other posts -


again??????? ......in todays world the word tRansvestite is dated...unless you are over 50.....

Cough, cough, splutter - In the words of Joan Rivers, "I resemble that remark"



...i still use the word tranny....which PI$$ES people off to no end....but it's meant as a joke and I only use that word after 2 AM to make fun of myself and every other tranny train wreck still up, drunk and partying...

Yep! Me too. I asked at a BBQ where to park an old Tranny (In the UK, the Transit van 'Tranny' was the builders workhorse of choice a few years back), so I have no problems with using it for myself in a self-deprecating manner.

Abigail - You've mentioned Mr Izzard twice that I can see. Are you his PR Manager or on commission? :)

[Shelly Preston]

The biggest trouble is language changes over time. It evolves sometimes its not for the better but we have to cope with the media trying to grab a bigger audience.

The context can shape how we feel about words.

Someone stated earlier they don't mind referring to themselves as a Tranny. I know others hate it.

Transgender does cover the whole spectrum with having to be too specific.

I think all we can do is use the word we feel most comfortable with.

[AbigailJordan]

interesting how many people here are linking the words transvestite and tranny. Whilst they share he same root, I consider the first to be a term, and the second to be a name (or label if you prefer everything to have a label).

Perhaps I worded my original question poorly, or perhaps it's an Atlantic thing. But do all these people who rail against the term transvestite hate it for what it means, or for what they perceive that others perceive it to mean.

"Oh wow.. you're a crossdresser... that's cool"
"Oh wow.. you're a transvestite... that's cool"

Is there REALLY such a big difference there?

Reb/Shelly, I rarely use the word tranny myself (unless referring to an old radio system), but I do very occasionally refer to myself as one. I'm comfortable enough with it that I can adopt the labels of others and take away the power that such terms have over me if needs be.

I'm still not sure after all this time whether people in certain countries (due to historical use of a certain term) merely dislike a term because of it's past connotations or whether they fear it for all the same reasons they fear any potentially negative word.