SO Ups and downs

[Ashley_K]

Hey all! It’s been awhile since I’ve posted here. I’m having one of those weeks where I feel I can’t get much support. I’m sure y’all’ve had those weeks. Now, I do have a CD friend I met through my therapist who’s incredible, and we’ve been talking a lot, which is awesome! But I guess I’m in one of those times where I need affirmation from more people.

My wife has generally been supportive, but last week, she had a huge breakdown where it was obvious she had bottled up a lot of frustration, and in one fell swoop, just let me have it. For a month or two until last week, I really took a chance and tried to be nonchalant about dressing and really be open about my thoughts and feelings--I was pleasantly surprised to have my wife reciprocate really well to them. It was going almost too easily--she bought me a dress (on clearance), I bought makeup in her presence, and I went with my CD friend to get my first wig. It was great! But then reality hit, and because I had really exposed myself and been so vulnerable, my wife’s explosion just hurt that much more--it felt like we had taken like 10 steps back. We’ve had some good conversations since then about some of her concerns, but the devastation still stings.

I wanted to throw this post out there to hear how others have taken risks to be vulnerable to your SO, it went well, blew up, and how you recovered. And I’d love just some support from my other CD/TG hidden-in-plain-view friends :) Thanks!

[Jodi]

Wow! What a revelation. Women have mood swings. Sorry for the sarcasm, but in my 70 years on this earth, that is all I've observed in 99% of women.

Jodi

[chris63]

Hi Ashley! Great post. I think sometimes this is like a roller coaster ride. My wife has been generally accepting and has gone out with me and even bought me clothes. There are times when she's not too comfortable with it so I just try not to push things. The biggest thing for us has been that she's seen the positive impact C D has on my mood and my ability to love her. But be encouraged! Keep taking baby steps together and be your guy side for her too

[kimdl93]

Give her some time. Let her work through her feelings...and avoid implying that her feel are invalid or unfair. Things will work themselves out if you're patient.

[Candice June Lee]

Maybe you went faster than she was ready for. I think yoh should not take it overly personal. Give it some time to fruit. In the mean time, have some decent conversatoion with her. Find some people that are like you. I know some have to be around your area. She needs a support group as much as you do. You can pm me or email me i can hint you around to find that support. I was shocked to find the people here in our area that hang ojt and do stuff, including crossdressing, pool parties without the issues of being judged. I couldnt be happier. It has help Wifey with some issues to, knowing she isnt alone.

[Adelaide]

My SO blew up at a therapy session 12 years ago. I was dressed and the therapist complimented me of my looks and the way I projected as a woman. My SO blew up. To make a very long story short, I have never been able to discuss any CD issues with her since, as she totally disagree with it, making numerous threats including divorce without visiting rights.

[Krisi]

I suggest that you back off and give her time to come around. Women (and men) will sometimes change their minds or not really understand their feelings. It's human nature.

Don't talk about dressing or dress in front of her for a while and see how it goes.

[Alleybee]

You know your wife better than anyone. Living together means being able to adjust to each others daily moods, and this is directly linked to your daily dressing. Somedays are better than others, you need to sense the mood and scale up or down accordingly.

[Suzanne F]

Ashley,
Breathe and give your spouse some space to deal with this. My wife and I have been through a wonderful and difficult journey. At times I thought it was hopeless. I came out, began dressing and rather quickly went out into the world. My wife helped me initially and then became frightened. She was correct in her fear since I am now transitioning. There were times she just didn't think she could deal with it. However, we started taking care of ourselves as individuals and found we love each other very deeply. I am very optimistic about our future together. If we can bear this cross there is hope for your wife and you to deal with cross dressing. Be calm and take it a step at a time. It can be done !
Suzanne

[Samantha Clark]

I can completely relate to this. You don't say how long you and your SO have been coping with this journey.

In my case it has been less than a year and so my SO is understandably still trying to adjust. It still hurts when she gets insecure and isn't as ok with it as other times.

After a while we are able to talk it over and then we both feel better because we love each other and care about each other and want us both to be happy.

I hope things get better for both of you.

[Katie01]

Case in point... My accepting GF had a change of heart recently and began feeling uncomfortable with my CDing. We talked and I let it sit for a week. Yesterday her Holloween costume came in the mail (a foofy princess dress). She loved it and said I could wear it next year! Haha. Go figure. She's the greatest.

[JamieG]

Sorry to hear about this Ashley, but it is not unusual. My wife and I had many arguments about crossdressing along the road to acceptance. Your wife may be trying really hard to accept this, but it is a big adjustment for her. I suggest having a big heart-to-heart and finding out what is bothering her, and how the two of you can work together to make it better. It may be too much crossdressing too soon, or she may have fears that she hasn't voiced yet. There was a great post by a GG a few years back called "Now I like it, now I don't" or something like that, which could give some insight into what your wife is going through. I suggest you search the forum for it.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Ashley, Just don't push it , My:love:wife knows about everything but just don't want to see me while I'm dressed.:hugs:

[Suzie Petersen]

Ashley,

Your wifes reaction is not unusual at all. As you can tell from the responces, others have had the same experience, and I am in that group too.

You might have pushed it a little to far a little too fast! It is a classic mistake to move ahead when it seems she is accepting it, but she might be strugling inside and although she might manage to put on a happy face, the concerns and fears can be brewing.

"Moving goal posts" is very normal and can be very confusing for a husbond and maybe especially a CD husbond. You have to pay attention to what she is signaling, not just what she is saying. And .. you have to guess a lot too. Regardless, you still wont get it all.

Talk to her, but dont make the CD thing the sole focus in your life.
Agree on a code word she can use when she feel you are being a bit too much. That makes it easier for her to let you know she is uncomfortable than if she has to spell it out. And then, be sensitive to when she ask you to slow down. Dont make it an issue, just bite your tongue and look forward to next time.

It is about both of you, not just one of you :-)

- Suzie

[Teresa]

Ashley,
I don't know your full circumstances of how long you've been married and how long your wife has known or if you have children . The reason I say this is it doesn't get any easier , my wife blew up I thought it was all to do with my CDing but she told me that it wasn't all about me !
So your wife may have had other things on her mind and she suddenly felt that she didn't need your CDing problem on top ! Maybe ask her if other things are bothering her and see if you can help !
I was going around in circles mentally and my counsellor pointed out that my head was full of assumptions and to break that I needed to ask questions no matter how painful.
It's hard not to feel hurt but accept the ten steps back until the dust settles, don't push it and she might realise how it's affected you !

[Barbara Black]

I know the scenario very well myself. helpful one day, threatening the next. I won't give any additional suggestions as those above have much more experience than me anyway, but I will mention that getting support is always needed the most when this happens, and this is the place to get it. I think the lack of support is always the hardest to find and most needed when the SO pulls it away from you suddenly.

[TrishaTX]

I think patience is the best way to go. Keep in ind this is all new to her too and sometimes overwhelming. It was for us too. Give it time and be loving...

[suchacutie]

My wife and I found Tina together, after having been married for 34 years. Since my wife has been involved from the beginning, and since was as unexpected for me as it was for her, we both wanted to understand Tina and everything involve with being transgendered. We were up front with every feeling and every decision as Tina progressed from knowing nothing about being transgendered to being comfortable in her skin. It will be Tina's tenth anniversary in 4 days.

My point is that were never any surprises between us. Decisions we're made jointly, and my wife literally taught Tina how to be a girl. Your wife must be involved at all levels unless you want a DADT relationship. It's the uncertainties that really make it hard on a spouse.

[MelanieAnne]

Your post leaves out some important details. What exactly are you seeking? Many SOs are OK with the dressing, if they don't have to see it. If you are heterosexual and have no plans to transition, there is no need for your wife to see you dressed. Many CDs run into problems because they are seeking some kind of approval or permission to sit around the house in a dress and heels. Look at it from the other persons point of view. Most women want a manly man. If your wife or SO suddenly let her leg and body hair grow out, got a mans haircut, and started dressing butch or male, how would you feel. CDing is for life, as most would agree. The best you can hope for is maybe a don't ask, don't tell, don't let her see you arrangement.
I'm not sure why CDs go to therapists. For what reason? Are you trying to understand it? Are you trying to be cured of it? Not possible.
Suppressing or denying it will just lead to other problems, anxiety, depression, resentment, irritability, stress, etc. Perhaps you can get your CD "fix" dressing from time to time when no one is home. Or you might go to a motel from time to time and dress and go out a while. You need to reassure your wife that you are totally heterosexual, and just get turned on by womens clothes. Most men are. CDs just take it a step further and wear them. But I would advise against letting her see you dressed. That will be the image that remains in her subconscious, and will be difficult for her to deal with.

[Lorileah]

If you are heterosexual and have no plans to transition, there is no need for your wife to see you dressed.


No idea how you got from A to B on that one

[ReineD]

For a month or two until last week, I really took a chance and tried to be nonchalant about dressing and really be open about my thoughts and feelings--I was pleasantly surprised to have my wife reciprocate really well to them. It was going almost too easily--she bought me a dress (on clearance), I bought makeup in her presence, and I went with my CD friend to get my first wig. It was great! But then reality hit, and because I had really exposed myself and been so vulnerable, my wife’s explosion just hurt that much more--it felt like we had taken like 10 steps back. We’ve had some good conversations since then about some of her concerns, but the devastation still stings.

Hmm. Something similar happened to us, but not for the reasons you may think. I'll explain and then you can decide whether or not your wife might have changed her mind for the same reasons.

I was supportive of the CDing from the beginning. It is a second relationship for both of us and my SO told me during our first week of dating (I was already head over heels in love, having admired my SO from afar for some years). I understood nothing about the CDing compared to now, so at the time I took it that it was a harmless pastime and that my SO's priorities would be similar to my ex's and other men I know, namely that he would prioritize his SO (me ... just as I prioritized him), his work, his social life with friends, etc. So we went merrily along with it as I became more and more involved, wanting the added degree of intimacy that the Cding afforded because it was a secret from everyone else and I was the only other person involved. I also bought stuff, we had fun talking about clothes (my SO would show me pics of things she liked), we would paint each other's nails, I even shaved my SO's entire body in the bathtub once.

But then things changed in that I began to perceive that the priority was the CDing and CDing-related activities. I could see a glow or a highly elevated mood around my SO when she was dressed or when she had had her hair or nails done, or was shopping for new outfits and wearing them, that I didn't see in his eyes when he looked at me or just spent time with me not CDing. I don't know if you will be able to understand this from a GG's point of view, but it was disconcerting to see that level of euphoria. I had been married for many years to someone who does not CD, and over the years I certainly saw my ex happy and thrilled about various things (having held his newborn son for the first time, having achieved great successes, having received fabulous promotions and huge bonuses after good years, having scored great tickets for a rock concert or sporting event), but all these things paled in comparison to the thrill I saw in my SO when she was dressed and her drive or rather her preoccupation with all things girly, to the point where it was evident this is what she loved doing most. You'll hear other GGs say the same thing, and THIS is when their inner-red flags can come up. It's not so much the actual dressing, it's what the dressing does to the inner landscape of the CDer. If this makes sense.

As previously mentioned, although my ex also was thrilled over different things, I never got the feeling that his priorities had changed. I just always knew that the main focus of his life was his family (me, and then later me and the kids).

So it could be that your wife detected some 'cloud nine' going on and she began to feel as if her relationship was threatened? I felt that way and unfortunately for my SO and I, the cloud stage lasted for several years to the point where our relationship was severely strained. I did try to talk to my SO at the time to explain my concerns, but my SO took it that I was being negative and against the CDing. We were not married or living together and so I began the process of stepping back from our relationship. In a nutshell, luckily things did eventually turn around. Things are balanced now and all is well.

You might ask your wife why the turnaround, but if she is like I was, she will not be able to put it all into words. It took me years to be able to look back and determine what it was, exactly, that had me so concerned.

[MelanieAnne]

I may get slammed for this anology, but CDing is sort of like a drug problem, in that you never just plateau with it. You always want to improve your skills, the walk, the makup, new heels, a new dress, going out more often, to more places. As time goes by, you find yourself dressing at every opportunity. There's always a new pair of shoes you just have to have, or a new dress. This is why many SOs get upset after they may have accepted the CDing at a certain level, but it continues to escalate, until they become secondary to the CDing.

[ReineD]

Melanie Anne, I have a question for you. Are you completely free to dress up when you want to, without feeling as if you are disappointing a partner, or needing to hide from kids, or freaking out because your neighbors might see you? I ask because if you do experience these things, it WILL be difficult to reach your plateau. You'll always be looking for, as you say, "every opportunity" to dress, it will be like chasing the carrot.

But, people who are fully on their own schedule, whose wives (like me) are fully supportive, who don't have kids, whose families live in other states, and who don't really know their neighbors (like my SO), and who really only have their own work schedules to navigate, do eventually reach a point where they've filled closets with clothing, they've gone out hundreds of times doing lots of different things, they've had the makeovers, photo shoots, they've gone to the TG conventions, etc. It can seem insatiable until the bucket list is reached, but once it's reached then things get on an even keel. Now, my SO can't even be bothered to dress to just stay home, and the dressing in the last year or so is not nearly as frequent as it once was ... with no pressures from anyone else. My SO just knows that he can dress whenever and wherever he wants to, and this alone makes all the difference.

[Marcelle]

Hi Ashley,

It is unfortunate but it sometimes happens . . . we (even those with the most accepting wife) are only one step away from a similar disaster. Emotionally, we (humans) can prioritize things that bother us within reason such that we can compartmentalize and shuffle things around to deal with them. It is probable that your wife has been shuffling the CDing elephant around for a bit trying to make sense of it, trying her best to accommodate/accept and then something else came along which pushed that to the side . . . perhaps a bigger stressor in life. I think giving her a bit of time and talking about it . . . open and honest . . . lay all your cards on the table and work forward from there. You may find yourself in a classic DADT but then again you may not. The "sting" may still hurt but it will dissipate once you come to an arrangement which you can both live with.

Cheers

Isha




. . . If you are heterosexual and have no plans to transition, there is no need for your wife to see you dressed . . . I'm not sure why CDs go to therapists. For what reason? Are you trying to understand it? Are you trying to be cured of it? Not possible. Suppressing or denying it will just lead to other problems, anxiety, depression, resentment, irritability, stress, etc. Perhaps you can get your CD "fix" dressing from time to time when no one is home. Or you might go to a motel from time to time and dress and go out a while. . . You need to reassure your wife that you are totally heterosexual, and just get turned on by womens clothes. Most men are. CDs just take it a step further and wear them.

What the heck does being heterosexual have to do with gender identity and transitioning . . . heck you have been here long enough to know one has nothing to do with the other yet you always seem to come home to roost on that one point.

As far as seeing a therapist well let's just say that some people need help figuring things out from someone who is qualified to help them and perhaps their SO . . . not just comments from the peanut gallery.

[Krisi]

MelanieAnne, we are all different here and our relationships are different as well. Many of us want our wives to see us dressed just so we don't have to plan our dressing time around their activities. And perhaps some of us want their approval or acceptance as well.

As for going to therapists, many people go to therapists, not just crossdressers. I do not, but they seem to stay in business.

For many, perhaps most of us, crossdressing is not like drug addiction. We don't always want more and we don't get to the point where our dressing interferes with normal or family activities.

Your comparison to a wife letting her body hair grow and wearing male clothes is a good one but marriage is supposed to be about mutual love and respect. I'll bet many of us have watched our wives go from young "hot chicks" to older, possibly overweight women who don't spend an hour on makeup every morning but we still love them as much as we ever did. And remember, they've watched us grow beer bellies and lose our hair. Would you love your wife less if she lost her breasts to cancer and her hair to the treatment?

I'm sorry people here seem to be ganging up on you, people should be able to express their thoughts freely here. You can expect people to disagree sometimes but there's a nice way and a "not so nice way". Lately, some members have been leaning towards the "not so nice" way.

[St. Eve]

Just wanted to check in how grateful I am for this thread. After reading all the posts I feel so NOT alone and very comforted....

We had a blow up (my spouse of 24 years and I) a few months ago around me finally coming out of the closet and my SO feeling pain, shame and guilt for not allowing me to live a happy life. I had shown her Eve 20 years ago and in 5 minutes it was clear that Eve was not welcome to reappear anytime again - ever. So, after 15 years of going back into super secret closet life and then 6 years of abstinence, there was this blow=up a few months ago in response to us watching the Bruce Jenner interview together.

The most recent success was a very adult sit down negotiation. We agreed that when in her presence, I would wear zero female clothes (that she could see or not) and outside of her presence I was free to dress as I felt most comfortable or necessary on any given day. We both walked away thinking "I can live with that." So far we have lived one week of the new agreement and all is well.

One of the things I did realize in the last week has already been mentioned above...I have this fantasy and longing for my SO to affirm and approve of and join me in everything I do. When she does not, CD or anything else, I tend to take it personally - I believe THIS IS MY ISSUE and my own unrealistic expectations I have to do my own work on. If I let go of this expectation, I seem to be able to be very happy being my non CD self around my SO and having some part of my CD life always with me when we are apart....

This morning I woke up to a note she left for me last night. The note expressed her love for me becoming me even if she needs to have more tantrums along the way. I hung that note on my wall so I will be able to see it every day, even in the midst of the tantrums when they appear.

Grateful for this community and the roller coaster process of coming out that has been waiting for 40 years....

Peace
St. Eve

[Ashley_K]

Hi Suzie,

I really like the idea of a code word. It worked well when chaperoning youth from my church on a trip and we had a code word for when they needed to stop acting a fool. This could work in the CD situation possibly, too! Hmm...

[Ashley_K]

Reine, thanks for your insight. I think you're actually onto something about how my wife feels that my "inner landscape" changes with the "cloud nine" feel. She says it's hard for her because she has such an emotional investment in me being male.

[Ashley_K]

St. Eve, that's a powerful story. My wife tells me after her blowups that she loves me too even when she throws tantrums. Sometimes I guess, we all just need to throw a tantrum!

[Ashley_K]

Thank you all for your continuing support and dialogue. Some answers to your questions: we've been married nearly 6 years, no kids, though we started seriously dealing with CD the past 3, after I had a crying meltdown. We go to a therapist together, which helps us talk things out. My wife grew up in an abusive household where she was only allowed to bottle her emotions up and hide in her shell in tough times... And though we have a wonderful relationship, she still resorts to this tactic and explodes sometimes. We're working through all that. We work to have strong communication at all times and having a DADT part of our relationship just won't work, which is specific to our relationship (DADT can work for others to varying degrees I guess, though I feel for me at least, it's unsustainable). We've been working to "normalize" dressing as much as possible, so Tuesday nights are our designated time for me to dress while doing something normal like reading a book or watching TV. She still can veto these evenings completely or veto parts (like I can't wear a wig, makeup, or stuffed bra, which so far has been all of them) if she just can't deal with it that night, but in general it's been very helpful. And I'm going back to just not bringing up the issue on other days as much as possible.

The issues she's really concerned about that came from the blowup that we'll talk about in the next counseling session are mainly regarding Boundaries:
1. Can I dress other than Tuesday nights
2. She doesn't want to have to call/text before coming home to make sure I'm not dressed
3. My priorities in buying F vs. M clothes (she feels I spend more time improving my F wardrobe at the expense of my deteriorating M wardrobe I need for work)
4. Her attraction to me
5. Shaving (I only did top of chest, and it made her upset)
6. Me having taken pictures of myself is risky
7. Burden on future children if we ever have any
8. What if either of our employers find out?

[Stephanie47]

At least your wife communicated something, even if negative, about you wearing women's clothing. Sometimes people just bottled something up for a long time and it explodes like a pressure cooker. That in itself is not healthy. I suspect your wife truly loves you and does not want to hurt you, but, her emotions can only be bottled up for so long. I think open discussions, as long as it is not sniping, is more healthy than a blow up. Sometimes a person will want to believe there is full acceptance of some sort of behavior because nothing adverse has been said. The behavior creeps along and the chances to voice disapproval in a timely and gentle manner just seem to dissipate. The question then arises as to whether you can incorporate her concerns into the lifestyle you had assumed she wholeheartedly approve of.

I have no idea where my wife stands on my "closeted" cross dressing. We haven't had a discussion about my cross dressing for over thirty years.

[CONSUELO]

Great insights from Reine. We would all do well to read her post carefully. Cross-dressing/transvestism can make one so single-minded and solipsistic because the tremendous thrill and pleasure that comes from dressing and achieving a very convincing impression of a female can be a little like a drug induced high. You feel thrilled and happy and of course the focus is very much on you and not on your partner. They feel shut out of something that they cannot comprehend. It is very difficult to share even during sexual intercourse as much of the cross-dresser's mind is occupied by the thrill of being dressed as a female.

Perhaps there is a point at which one's desires become sated and the compulsion levels out to the point that it's importance relative to other parts of life recedes and relationships with others become more balanced. I believe from my experience that we cross dressers can be highly narcissistic and that makes it very hard for SO's.

This post and some of the replies, especially Reine's goes to the very heart of what we are. I shall be interested in seeing how our collective thinking develops on this vital topic.

[MelanieAnne]

Posted by Isha:

What the heck does being heterosexual have to do with gender identity and transitioning .

My point is that if one is planning to transition, then the spouse or SO is going to have to eventually see and get used to the transition. But if one is heterosexual, and planning to stay that way, there is no need to involve the SO in the crossdressing. For those who have pulled it off, great, wonderful, happy for you. But this board is filled with stories of wives and SOs who are not accepting or comfortable with the CDing, but are OK with a don't let me see it arrangement. For every wife or SO who is OK with the dressing, gives makup tips, and helps buy the clothes, a dozen are not accepting of it.

Hi Krissi:


Many of us want our wives to see us dressed just so we don't have to plan our dressing time around their activities.

I understand your point, but this is where many CDs run into trouble. You want your wives to see you dressed so you can dress at will. But most wives don't want to see their husband dressed like a woman. And pursuing it usually doesn't end well.
And for the record, I am single, live alone, and dress whenever I want. And I was married for 17 years, and yes, when my wife found out about my CDing, she left, although the CDing was just a small part of the divorce. There were other factors.

[St. Eve]

Thanks for the feedback Ashley...."sometimes, I guess, we all just need to throw a tantrum" amen, sister....