Things are starting to get confusing

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

This is my fist post in this part of the forum. I was initially going to post in the CD portion but, to be honest I don’t think it would fit. Then again I am not sure if it fits here. So, if any here take offence, my apologies but as the title implies . . . things are getting confusing and I am hoping that some here may have lived what I am living now and may be able to provide some insight. Please don't get too concerned about hurting my feelings . . . 33 years in the military tends to thicken one's skin but do expect a return reply :). So . . . by way of introduction, I am a self-professed “middle pather” and while I believe I am holding the Tranny Grenade (TM – I remembered this time Melissa ;)), have most likely pulled the pin, the lever is still firmly held in my hand so the potential for exploding is abated … or so I think. The odd thing is, while I still consider myself a “middle pather”, I am completely out in all aspects of my life . . . home, family, social, local and work (the Canadian military and not the easiest place to show up in a dress on casual Fridays).

My take has recently been I am gender fluid in that some days I identify as a man and dress accordingly (no androgynous look or underdressing – all guy) and some days I identify as a woman and dress accordingly (which now includes female military uniform at work). I do not control the gender feeling. Specifically, I don’t wake up one morning and think . . . “Hmm today is sunny and warm seems like a nice day for a sundress”. I just wake up feeling like a woman and to dress as a guy would be uncomfortable. If I am in this frame of gender (woman) when I get home, I don’t revert to guy mode. I remove all my make-up, change into comfortable female attire (shorts, t-shirt) and no wig. In essence I am just me (male physiology and face) but I still identify as a woman. I will spend the night doing what my wife and would normally do . . . hang, watch television, talk but I am not “guy me” . . . sorry I don’t have a better way of explaining how this feels . . . I just know in my core I am not a man at that time albeit I definitely look like one. This will also bleed in to my daily existence at home. So if I am identifying as a woman and I have outside chores to do they are done as a woman. As an example, last weekend I had to split and stack our winter wood (12 cords). I was identifying as a woman so it was me in shorts (female khaki), a tank top, work boots, gloves and a baseball cap. No make-up, no wig just me. I took delivery of the wood presenting as described above (that was an awkward moment for the wood guy) and spent the rest of the day splitting and stacking as a woman. Finished, showered and changed into clean comfy clothes and continued my night as a woman.

This is where it starts to get confusing. There are times where I identify as a “man” and have no desire to dress as a woman in any way but, those are short periods now (3 days maximum). Don’t get me wrong, I feel great as a man and love the freedom of not having to do make-up and just leave for work but some days it feels like that is cross dressing and sometimes it feels like I am stretching the male mode into three days because I need to give him equal time, not because I want to. Even when I am identifying as a man, I can feel her behind my eyes and I miss her and think about being her. Funny thing is I don’t have that feeling for my guy side when I am identifying as a woman. I can feel him knocking around when it is getting close to his time but it is almost as though it is something that I have to do, not want to do . . . very confusing.

The last confusing part is while I fully believe that gender fluidity is something that is going to get less and less probable to claim I have no desire to transition completely. Please do not take this as me saying transition is a bad thing it is just not for me. Specifically, my therapist has asked if I wanted to start HRT and I have no desire for the bodily effects it may bring (e.g., potential breast development, body fat redistribution). I also in my heart of hearts do not see GRS or any FFS in my future. With the exception of facial and body hair which I am having slowly removed, I like my guy physiology and face because it is me whether I identify as a woman or man . . . that is who I am. To hopefully better explain it, if I were to change my physiology (body or face) it would feel as though I were denying who I was born as . . . in essence killing off an integral part of my identity (please remember, this is particular to me and not a statement about those who transition in general). Believe me when I look in the mirror . . . the kid isn't pretty by any stretch of the imagination and while I have a slighter frame for a guy (5'6" and now 149 pounds) my physiology is still very guy (years of training in the military - very guy arms and shoulders). I don't use breast forms or padding to create a more female body type but, I am comfortable with how I look and while I do get the "WTF stares" when up close and personal in the world . . . I have ceased caring (well almost :))

My therapist and I spend an inordinate amount of time discussing this and while she will guide me in my discovery she will not force me into a stance. We agree “gender fluid” works . . . for now. But some days it is just very confusing to feel this way. Thanks for letting me vent . . . it has been a very difficult week. Before anyone asks . . . I keep my wife updated on all aspects of how I feel and we have contingency plans in place should this start accelerating in a given direction.

Cheers

Marcelle (Isha)

[Leah Lynn]

Hi, Isha! I don't have any answers, but I think you are in a very good place. Being able to switch hit has to be better than having to hide the girl when deemed "inappropriate". I bet a lot of girls would love to be in your position.

I hope someone can give you answers to clear up the confusion.

Hugs,

Leah

[kimdl93]

Hi Isha,

I sometimes go back over my old posts to remind myself of where I was, where I thought I was going and how full of BS I can sometimes be. It's humbling to in all respects. What stands out for me is how much and how quickly my self assessments changed as I began to more deeply (and more publicly) embrace this part of who I am.

I've repeated this to the point of redundancy, but I suspect ones perception of self changes, not due to some gravitational force, but instead is revealed to us as we experiment and experience this aspect of our lives. We can begin to see what was long buried beneath denial or hidden by fear. And we begin to realize the possibilities that exist beyond our experience.

A decade or more ago, I might have had difficulty imagining that I would see myself the way I do today. I like to think that I possess a clearer and more complete sense of self than I possessed even five or six years ago. Perhaps, if I keep using this forum as a sort of transgender journal, I'll be able to check back in five more years to see if I'm still full of BS.

Bu in any case, I redefined myself a few months back...acknowledging here what I'd been feeling for a long time. Acknowledging that I felt less like a middle pather and more able to embrace myself as a woman. We often talk about balance, and it has felt as though the balance point has shifted. Like you, I presently can't foresee the pursuit of SRS or FFS, and I have health considerations that unfortunately seem to put the advisability of HRT in question.

I have an acquaintance here in Houston who has lived as a woman for a couple of decades without the benefit of HRT or surgery. It seems to work for her. Perhaps something similar may work for people like you and me.

Kim

[stefan37]

My opinion and only my opinion. It's a matter of time. I was where you are now. I pierced my ears. Wore eyeliner and eye shadow, colored nail polish and various articles of obviously woman's clothing daily. I still lived, worked and socialized as a male. I owned what I was doing. I lived for several years like this. Things were going well until they weren't. I always had at times mild anxiety, but it would go away. The anxiety became persistent. Rx drugs would mute it but if was always in the background. The inner urge to let me out grew. During the day I would ask. Is this all there is to life. . I started to feel as if I was on a runaway train. Family members started to notice and wouldn't talk to me. But to my wife. "What's up with Steve? Hey and I talked one night and she convinced me to seek therapy. ( not sure she was expecting the outcome,). I was at the point in therapy when my therapist felt HRT would be appropriate and would help with the anxiety. I fought it for a few months. My wife was not on board. Things weren't getting better and I needed relief. I got my blood work done, made an appt with the endo. 3 days in estrogen and the anxiety was gone. It still took time to commit to full transition. I thought I could live in the middle, and tried my to do just that. It was too confusing for those close to me. And I felt no real satisfaction. The rest is history.

You have not yet reached that point where only living 24/7 is necessary. You say you are 60/40 female. You may find you need to be 80/20 female with no hormones or procedures. I hope for your sake that is the case. You are living your life as open and authentic as possible and it seems to be working. Don't get hung up on the confusion. If and when you feel living 24/7 is the only way forward. Cross that bridge at that time. As difficult and confusing living as you are may be. Transition will introduce issues that will be even more challenging.

You may find you are more comfortable in this sub forum than the other. The difference here is won't get "you go girl". You will receive honest advice from those of us that were where you are and have gone full time 24/7 to integrate as the opposite to our birth gender.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Your honesty and openness is always welcome in my mind...and for what its worth i beleive it will serve you very well..

My working theory has always been that no matter what we do, no matter what we try, no matter who we love or how much we love them , we revert to our nature, or we suffer for it.

you are walking the walk... going to work dressed part time seems totally and completely outside of the realm of anything i would have ever considered...i had no interest...it doesnt make any sense to me...
that's because my gender is not fluid..

Personally it seems to me that you are working very hard to figure yourself out...you will figure it out.. the whole point of what you are doing is to discover your nature...

If you are truly gender fluid , then you are living your nature and it should become more and more comfortable to you... if it doesnt i don't think i have to say more

also, its a very short time frame you are talking about.. i wouldn't measure time in weeks or months...think more like seasons...

you will find that many of the ts women here that lived 30+ guy years will say they identified as cd's...and no offense but that's how i view what you are doing ..if you are not gender fluid, that won't cut it..

i know that sometimes when i was in therapy i knew i was sputtering and it was those times that i leaned on my therapist for ideas and things i could change...it was her that suggested i "spend a whole 4 day weekend dressed" for example...and its funny I actually got frustrated a bit ..i felt trapped...but AFTERWARDS i was desperately unhappy... i sobbed for "no reason"......i felt the loss of the little slice of living i had over that weekend... a year later i went to a conference and did the same thing dressing the whole time... after that, i sunk into a deep depression, stopped eating, lost the will to live...

it was my nature screaming at me and i finally listened..

[becky77]

I admire what you are doing, that takes guts to be true to yourself.

I really struggle with this idea you can identify female one day and male the next, it borders on split personality. But then I'm not gender fluid, so I no more get you than Cis people get why I transitioned.

Stepping outside the known binary causes all sorts of confusion, that will always be the case, until people like you make it more common.
Maybe your confusion comes from a lack of shared experience? there is probably an awful lot more people like you but they don't have the strength of character like you do, to show the world this particular way of living.

You don't fit neatly into a box, that's not because you are out there on your own, I would say it's more because so few people show this box actually exists.

[Dana44]

Isha, thanks for being frank about yourself. I too have the waking as a girl or a guy on any given day. All my life it has been that way. On letting my fem side out, I was exploring and really liked my fem self. Four day fem and three days male. My SO became annoyed with it and I responded. I am in a male mode now whether I I wake up fem or male. We talked on it and she just needs some recovery time like a couple weeks. So, Yeah I understand, yet wow it is good being that male. I do try to present well as a male also. I do know that if went totally fem I would never ever transition to the SRS. I might do HRT but never fully be a girl. I could never be happy as one or the other. We are the androgynous type of beings and will never feel totally right as either. So, if you run as a girl for some time you might find that it will boomerang back to the male side just as bad as you feel it now.

[becky77]

Are we sure we are talking about identity here?

[Badtranny]

Damn Kaitlyn, brilliant post. I don't really have anything to add, but ...I'll give it a shot. ;-)

Isha, you got balls kid. I still think it's funny that you have so much respect for 'us' when you yourself are doing the hard work of self discovery and coming out, in the hardest possible way. You may be a self professed 'middle path-er' but if the whole point of being in the middle is to avoid disrupting your life, I would say that you are the worst middle path-er EVER.

I also want to point out that you reexamine your ideas about what it means to be a woman. Or perhaps reexamine how you characterize it here. There are plenty of days, okay pretty much every day when I don't want to wear makeup or do my hair, or coordinate my outfit. So I don't. My legal name is still Melissa and my legal gender is still female. The difference between us is I've had enough surgery that I look feminine no matter what I do. Transition really F'd up my professional life, but my day to day life is great.

For me, not having the work done was not an option. I wasn't going to go full time until FFS, and that was the end of it. I guess you could say I was a middle path-er as well for a bit, but I crossed over as soon as I could. This is the life that I wanted warts and all. I'm just glad I was able to figure out which side of the fence I was on a little more privately. :-)

[Jennifer-GWN]

Isha;

I've actually been waiting patiently for this post to come from you and honestly it’s been expected.

I have been an ardent follower of you and your path, your experiences, and your courage to pushing the boundaries specifically at our work environment. You should be commended for having the strength and conviction to pursuing this.

Many of us know where we need to be and follow either a strategic path forward; others step forward one step at a time still with the same end state in mind.

You; and I know you are not alone, are on the path of personal discovery not necessarily knowing specifically what the end state has in store. Who knows you may be at you’re particular end state. It remains to be seen.

To some degree as you explore and deal with a state of fluidness I do think some of your angst might be coming you’re recent boundary expansion from personal to place of work.

I saw the victory allowing you to coexist at work on Fridays and the leadership you’re provided in making policy changes at an HR and mindset level as significant and very progressive.

Perhaps your further move to taking the approach of “when you feel the need” associated with your own personal exploration unto your colleague assuming they'd adjust might be contributing to your sense this uneasiness despite how accepting and tolerant they have been. You’ve asked a lot from your colleagues while at the same time you’ve placed a lot of pressure on yourself as well. Perhaps you don’t see it that way. Just an observation from afar on my side.

Being in a senior position and viewed as a leader in my organization coming out came with a good deal of personal expectations. Pressure in the form of wanting to succeed, never waver openly, and show the confidence that you have in yourself. My dad used to say to me when I was a kid… Only take the step forward if you know you’re ready and know you’re able to pull it off, in public it will be expected. I was able to go “pubic” as Jennifer at home outside of work relatively. It was a good test; a trial period for me allowing myself to build the confidence to continue the path forward to my end goal. A calculated step.

I do know we all go through this “in between” phase as we chart out our destiny forward. It is a time of struggle emotionally and coming with it much frustration in the process.

For myself, coming out at work came at a point where I was absolutely sure and ready to take that final step. It was a point when “in between” had reached a state where it became too emotionally draining. It was also a point where I was absolutely sure I could “make it to the end zone” with the necessary confidence and resolve to deal with any and all obstacles that might arise. No “Backsee’s” so to speak.

You’ve crossed that bridge and the preverbal cat is out of the bag.

There’s no right answer; there’s no path that works for everyone. The beauty of this forum is the ability to put things out there and on the table and use the feedback as guidance from others in your own discovery process.
I remain an ardent follower and have much respect to you, your position, your convictions and sense of self. I can only offer opinions and maybe a bit of arm chair quarterbacking from the sidelines.

I’m always here, happy to take a call or a PM Offline. Support comes in many forms; draw from the many forms and paths. I’ll use a comment I made to a very close friend recently… I know that you have many friends to draw strength from and although some of us are not physically near; through the digital realm we are but a click away where miles become nanoseconds.

Chin up and perseverance on your path of discovery.

Cheers… Jennifer

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

Thanks much for your feedback. I guess just needed a bit of vent time as last week it was extremely hard to reconcile the two halves and almost felt as though my soul was being ripped in two . . . a bit better today :)



I also want to point out that you reexamine your ideas about what it means to be a woman. Or perhaps reexamine how you characterize it here. There are plenty of days, okay pretty much every day when I don't want to wear makeup or do my hair, or coordinate my outfit. So I don't.

Hi Melissa,

You are right on point and believe me, if I did not require copious amounts of make-up in "real time land" to look remotely female, it would be minimal, minimal, minimal. Hence the reason why I remove it as soon as I get home and can just be me. Clothing, well for work it is business professional on Fridays other days very boring uniform. If I had my way it would be jeans or comfy clothing and normally is when I am on my own time.


. . . You’ve asked a lot from your colleagues while at the same time you’ve placed a lot of pressure on yourself as well. Perhaps you don’t see it that way. Just an observation from afar on my side.

Hi Jennifer,

To some degree this resonates well with me. Last week I had a meeting with the new Chief of Defence Staff as he was curious about my workplace accommodation so he wanted to meet Marcelle and discuss. He was congenial (bear in mind I knew him long ago when I was in the Infantry and he remembered me). He indicated I was blazing a bold new understanding of how the military views gender identity. It was at that point it became very real that there was no going back. Okay, I knew that as soon as I came out there was no going back but now I was being touted as blazing a path and that became very heavy . . . I really just want to exist and live, not be a spokesperson or poster child. This did add to my angst.


. . . Personally it seems to me that you are working very hard to figure yourself out...you will figure it out.. the whole point of what you are doing is to discover your nature...

If you are truly gender fluid , then you are living your nature and it should become more and more comfortable to you... if it doesnt i don't think i have to say more

Hi Kaitlyn,

Very true. I guess it is the tactical nature in me to view everything in fine detail and not move forward without examining all aspects . . . hopefully I will find my place as at some point and reach a comfort level


Are we sure we are talking about identity here?

Hi Becky,

Curious . . . what else would I be talking about but gender identity?

Cheers

Isha

[ErikaS]

Isha
I am also a follower of you because as you I am also in the Military (USa) and also a Federal employee so me now making the choice to come out to work and move forward as they say it's out of the bottle no going back. But for me it was also hard to move from gender fluid to the next step. You have been an inspiration to me more then you know. I worked hand in hand with the Canadian army in Afghanistan and how the troops were first rate. Of the 30 years I have been in the military as you coming to terms of who I am was forever in the making. As we move down this path it's the support and strength of each other how we move to the next hill. I will always have your back.

Erika

[CONSUELO]

Isha,

I am not in the same place as you and I don't have a wise words for you but you do have my support and lots of best wishes.

[PaulaQ]

Consider, Isha, that there are alternatives to binary transition for gender fluid people. It's true that most of us here on this forum are binary identified, and pursue a transition to life as women. But I know people who do some amount of medical and even legal transition to obtain a more androgynous appearance. I have a friend who's identity / expression is such that half the time they are gendered male, half the time female. They are comfortable this way and in fact being gendered 100% male or female is uncomfortable for them. It's odd, because I suspect for most of us on the forum here, the stage in our transition where we don't really pass as either male or female was the WORST part of our transition. That was the case for me anyway.

My point is that you need to figure out who you are and how you are comfortable living. You are obviously well on your way to doing this - just don't limit your thinking to just binary transition. This is going to be more of a do it yourself process than even a typical binary transition is. (You may also take some crap from people who tell you that you are doing it wrong.)

It's hard to say right now whether you have a non-binary identity or simply are in a state of transition to a largely female identity - many of us experience gender fluidity before we commit to a binary transition. Either path is possible for you, and I think only time will really tell for you.

The only advice I can give you is to be true to yourself, regardless of what others say to you. I don't expect you to do anything else though - as I say, you are well on your way.

[Eringirl]

Hey Isha: Thanks for the post. Seems completely reasonable to me to post here. I have the privilege of knowing you for a while now and have enjoyed our many "conversations". I too was have been wondering when this post was going to come. As others have said, there is no right or wrong answer. Whatever works for you is the right answer, for you. But to your original question.....I do understand a little bit where you are at. This is sorta where I was at about 17 years ago. That was when I had the inner strength to still be comfortable presenting male and so very happy when I was Erin. As time went on, that changed. For me, my strength and desire to present as male, to not be Erin, got weaker. Erin become much stronger to the point I could no longer deny her. When I was male, all I could think about was Erin. When I was Erin, I was happy. So, my circumstances changed, over time. Much like what you may be experiencing now. My therapist stated this past year that 17 years ago was not my time. I wasn't ready, nor did I need, to be Erin. However, that changed. And now is my time. For me, that is what was right. So that is my answer, that is what is right for me. If you want to continue to make it work because that is what is oomfortable for you and meets your needs, then keep right on going kiddo.....

Happy to PM should you have any questions....always good to chat with you!

Erin

[LeaP]

... most of us here on this forum are binary identified ...

I seriously doubt that. … And it's one of the major sources of friction here.

[PaulaQ]

@Lea - I meant on the TS forum. On CD.COM in general, yeah, no way - non-binary, or male is the majority identity by a lot

[Karen62]

Isha, my friend, you were one of the reasons I joined CD.com last New Year's Eve. When I had my "Day of Reckoning" moment and decided I could no longer pretend or deny this aspect of my personality and identity, I stopped resisting and accepted myself as OK, not sick, bad or evil. You were influential to me as a thought leader in the CD side of this forum -- and at that moment in time, I believed I was an extremely compulsive cross-dresser, and I had been a lurker on the CD side for a long time (with only quick, occasional peeks into the TS side, but in my mind, I dared not go there, as it was beyond what I was willing to consider). But once I stopped resisting and denying my truth, the reality became clear pretty fast -- that I am what was labeled a "late-emergence transsexual". And that is OK with me.

In the many years leading up to that moment of acceptance, though, I had similar vacillating needs to dress and express my femininity. Some days it was powerfully strong and I could not ignore it. Other days the need to express that part of myself was weaker or, sometimes, simply non-existent. However, as the years went by (and you are, I believe, a fair bit younger than me, as I am now 53), the constancy of these feelings, likely because they were repressed so strongly, became harder and harder for me to ignore. By 2013 and through 2014, when I was at home, I was dressed. Every day. I couldn't resist it, yet I was too frightened to even try to figure out why (although in retrospect that may not be true, as my exploration of the subject by reading this forum may have been my clandestine attempt to figure out what was behind this drive in me... Hmmm, a point worth mentioning to my therapist next week...)

Isha, I wish you peace and happiness. Follow your heart, and live your life the way you were meant to. Only you can determine what that way is, but never be afraid of finding out your own truth. In my case, now that I am fully engaged in transitioning, while this road is hard and fraught with pitfalls, not to mention incredibly expensive in so many ways (not just money), I have never been happier in all my life. Life is good.

Karen

[Donnagirl]

Isha,

I'm stepping out on a limb here, but, taking my own experience here, it took me so long to be totally honest with myself. (And I mean totally, brutally, truthfully honest - and I reckon I'm still not there yet.) Could it just be possible that there is that little nugget of realisation lurking in your subconscious and you're only now getting ready to unpack it. It is in our psyche to fight and you're definitely better than most, but maybe it's time to acquiesce... Not a break contact, not a tactical withdrawal, not a covert redeploy to the next defensive line but time to run up the white flag. Do trained psychologists make the worst psych patients???

Just my thoughts.

Donna xx xx xx

[Suzanne F]

Isha
You and I came to this forum and started our journeys almost the same week. It seems only yesterday we were elated to walk out the door in a dress. I am confident that we will both arrive at our authentic selves. Your strength has been evident from the beginning. I don't have any answers for you but I know that we will be ok. You have done all they asked of you, it is ok to breathe and just be! I always know that you are watching what is going on with me and it helps me. I hope you know I am watching and hoping the best for you. Take your time and don't be so hard on yourself.
Much respect,
Suzanne

[Laura912]

To paraphrase John Donne:

Because I am involved in womankind,
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.

[Christina Kay]

Great post Isha. So much I can relate to . Genderfluid/mid-Pather , is how I identify now. But have been warned of that slippery slope. Yes it gets tougher each time going back to guy mode. But the slide into girl mode is so comforting, and so natural. That the ease of it terrifies me. We/Genderfluids is it only a way point of a journey, or a stop we can live at.
Wish there was a Genderfluid area on this sight,a safe area.(kind of a way station) Might help those of us , figure out where we really fit in. Wish I had better answers for you.
Hugs Christina

[becky77]

Great post Isha. So much I can relate to . Genderfluid/mid-Pather , is how I identify now. But have been warned of that slippery slope. Yes it gets tougher each time going back to guy mode. But the slide into girl mode is so comforting, and so natural. That the ease of it terrifies me.

If it's hard going back to being a guy and so easy being female, are you really Gender fluid?
To be Gender fluid surely each role is equal?
Is gender fluid an umbrella term?

I mentioned "are we sure we are talking about Identify" because some will confuse expression with identity.

[stefan37]

Living a gender fluid life is absolutely a possibility. Intensity of GD can move all over the map. I have been crossdressing from as far back as I can remember. Over the years I would enter periods of pink fog where it would consumer me. Then it would wane and there would be months when I would have no desire to dress. I was in the closet for various reasons and I was okay with that. Then there were some life altering events and things changed. Why I can't tell. But the intensity to feminize and be out increased. I presented how I could to help alleviate the GD. It worked until it didn't.


I know some that the intensity was so severe they had no choice but to rocket to living 24/7. I also know 4 individuals that are content to live in the middle. There intensity is such that partial living as female or androgynous is enough to mitigate their GD.

The only thing one can do explore until they find a spot that is comfortable. Unfortunately GD is an unpredictable condition. Things can be bearable and ok until they are not.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Yes Steph...great point
GD is UNPREDICTABLE..

I know this may upset some middle pathers...I truly feel bad about it, but I have just seen it over and over...its always the same...if you are TS, the GD lays you bare in the end..

If you really know you are ts, its a ticking time bomb

[Elli87]

been going through the same, more or less. I was on hormones for a little bit deep deep in the pink fog, but I realized that I also like the man that I am, and that I enjoy my male sexuality too much to go and replace it with something I don't know. So I quit the mones and Now I'm working with my therapist and myself to cultivate a balance that is healthy.

[docrobbysherry]

To Isha and everyone that posted, thank u! For years I've been trying to understand what a "fem side", genderfluid, g. dysphoria, mid path, male/female binary, etc. actually feels like. I guess I'm simply a CD and have not, nor will I, experience the things posted above.

I think I understand a bit more about what Isha and others r experiencing now. And, it makes me tear up and want to cry! I don't know how u do it. All the best to everyone!

[KellyJameson]

This may sound odd Isha but I have always "experienced you as a woman". To tell a man this would be an insult but I suspect you will understand what I'm talking about and not feel it takes anything away from you.

Being born into this caused me to see gender with what I call "My third eye" which I developed to survive not being able to make my body or the bodies of others "match my experienced gender" from the lie I was experiencing from the contradiction I was born into. I disconnected from physical reality because of a deeper reality I was experiencing.

In the past I think people like me were called two spirit and they have a rich spiritual tradition and I think this partly comes out of being forced "to see without your eyes" or "to hear without your ears"

It is easy to see those who have a deep female spirit in them and for me you have it. Hope this is not received as bad news PLUS it is only my opinion. No matter how much I can empathetically connect with you, you are still the one who lives within yourself. I never want my opinions to influence someone, especially on something so dangerous as being trans.

What I hear and feel in your words is someone giving birth to that something that was always in them but "quieted" out of necessity by you in childhood or perhaps it was put to sleep by others thinking that it was for your own good. (forced to man up to the detriment of your natural spirit)

You are creating an environment (presenting as a woman) that allows for the "complete you" to be experienced which brings this person out of the shadows.

If your male persona was/is false this will fall away and be replaced with what you are in actuality (it's opposite as its dominant energy) Everyone has two energies in them creating a duality of expression (Yin & Yang) This can create tension between them the larger the contrast.

When you are looking out at the world and interacting with the world you will than naturally do this as a woman. You will know this experience when you "through your empathetic connection with others" see through their eyes and know they see and are experiencing a woman (you)

We project onto others (see ourselves through their eyes) are actual gender when this gender is allowed to be free. An aspect of GD is not being able to do this so you are than in conflict between your experienced reality of yourself and the reality of others as to how they experience you, which results in suffering.

To the degree people are accepting of you ((it sounds like they have been) they allow you to emerge. They contribute to your creation even though what is being created was always there. (helping you to be born)

This creates confusion from the conflict of carrying two opposite realities (identities) in your mind. In my opinion this is another example of GD (confusion from the dissonance of being split into two people) The one you actually are versus the one created for you and by you for inclusion and acceptance.

I call it going deeper into the insanity to come out sane. For me it was part of transitioning and scared the living (insert your own word here) out of me. I always felt abnormal and it felt like I was intentionally becoming even more abnormal by following the pull of my mind that had always been there.

On the other side is truth and freedom for those who are T.S

From my perspective what you are experiencing is very normal because I see you as TS.

Where it takes you only time will tell. I very much hope you find peace and fulfillment. You deserve it.

[Christina Kay]

@Becky777 Identifying and expressing. Expressing yes , identifying that's the struggle, the ebb n flow. Are we still denying our truest self.? Being genderfluid is seldom a 50/50 proposition. Being in therapy trying to sort out this all out. Has been life changing for myself and my wife.
Yes I identify as anywhere from being a person to female. Is my guy side a learned thing, am I trying to unlearn it. These are the dilemmas others have passed through on there way to accepting there true selves. And as Isha said we firmly hold the pin of the grenade. (Thank you Melissa)
I would like to think I can stay in this holding pattern, but it gets tougher each day. I surmise that I'm not ready to blow it up quite yet, nor have the thought that Caitlyn Jenner had about her last days and not living as she is now.
So yes I like to think genderfluid, but I know who I am, ,,,,,,,,. Not quite there yet or quite ready to admit it to myself yet. So thank you Becky777. For a little dose of self introspection.

[becky77]

@ Christina
I was so sure of who and what I was, just fear and lack of knowledge held me back.
But I don't envy those who are unsure or live somewhere in the middle, there really is very little guidance or visible examples.

As I said to Isha, what if you are a tomboy/masculine woman at heart? Could be why some people think they have a male identity also. Just because you like some of your guy side doesn't necessarily mean you are male or have a male identity......

That would still make you TS, think of all the women that enjoy life in a guys world, do blokey stuff with their male friends. They don't question their gender but what if they were born in a man's body?
Confusion central!

[flatlander_48]

I:

Fascinating stuff. In effect it is like a movie as things progress, and we don't know what the end game will be. It is Grand Theater (in the sense of mystery, discovery and drama, lest some take issue).

However, one question I have is this...

Humans are, by nature, often driven by habit, structure and understanding where the limits are. This is what can allow us to direct our behavior in one way or another. Could it be that there hasn't been sufficient time for you to settle into your Groove, whatever and wherever that might be?

DeeAnn