Who-I-am vs. What-I-like

[ReineD]

Obviously, what I am about to type does not apply to Transsexuals.

I've noticed many CDers refer to CDing activities as "Who I am". This is confusing to me, because in this forum, "Who I am" generally refers to gender identity. We certainly have no lack of threads debating this issue and the associated labels.

But when I read a person describe in the CD section having sex with their wives while dressed or going out shopping while dressed as "Who I Am", I never know if they are transitioning but posting in the CD section anyway, or if fundamentally they have chosen to live as men all while enjoying CDing activities.

There are lots of things we all like to do, all kinds of preferences sexual and non-sexual that we all have, for things like what floats our boat in the bedroom, or different types of food, the type of art, music, books, movies, etc we enjoy, sports or other hobbies like collecting stuff we may be into, where we like to travel, and often we are passionate about these things and they are priorities in our lives, even collecting designer clothing and shoes. I suppose we could say that doing these things is who we are but if we use this language, then how do we differentiate in this forum between a preferred activity that makes us feel good and a fundamental gender identity?

Another way to look at my question is, why would a person who lives as a man and has no plans to transition, believe that the enjoyment of dressing as a woman and/or having sex dressed as a woman makes him a woman (which is what I deduce when I read "this is who I am"). Unless "Who I am" means "crossdresser?

[TrishaTX]

For me it is part of my life...one I hid a long time. It is not something I like but it is part of me. So it is who I am . I am a man 95% of the time...but then that 5% comes and I almost need to do it. I love the feel and the look and most of all I enjoy the day knowing I am going to do it. Especially when I am with my wife. So for me it is part of who I am , along with my family life, job, music I love and feed I eat.

[ReineD]

Bear with me txcrossdress, but I take it you mean the crossdressing is a part of you? So when you say "this is who I am", do you mean "I am a woman", or "I am a crossdresser".

I've been getting confused, because most CDers who do not plan on transitioning do dress as women, and so when they say "this is who I am", I am unsure whether they take it they are women or if they really mean "crossdresser". If this makes sense.


Edit - to repeat, this does not apply to transitioners obviously, who do identify as women. My question is directed to those of you who have chosen to live as men.

[Billie Jean]

For me that means crossdresser. Billie Jean

[mechamoose]

I crossdress to feel more like myself. I like pretty things, and I enjoy wearing them. Male clothing is all very dull to me.

Perhaps that people expressing 'this is who I am' are expressing a *facet* of who they are. I'm lucky enough to be able to do that most of the time. If you came up to one of these cd-ing males at the right time, they might identify as a football player, because that is what they are doing at the time.

Just a thought.

- MM

[Tracii G]

Maybe they are referring to being a crossdresser.
When I say this is who I am I guess it just means just not being in the norm.
I do wear womens clothes every day and present somewhere in between the genders,some days more female than male or more male than female just depending on how I feel that day.

[Alice_2014_B]

Quoting another, "its part of who I am".
I would dress up A LOT more if my wife liked it more or if I were single.
She probably wouldn't mind if I dressed more, haven't asked.
:)

[Allisa]

This is" who I am", is a crossdresser i.e. a male who has an affirmation for wearing womens clothing, and doing "what I like" in a feminine manor in as much as I can. I also believe that I have both male and female inclinations that I act on but that does not make me a woman or feel as one although I enjoy the feeling of "being me". I don't know if this answers your question but maybe helps with some insight or makes it worse.

[TrishaTX]

Bear with me txcrossdress, but I take it you mean the crossdressing is a part of you? So when you say "this is who I am", do you mean "I am a woman", or "I am a crossdresser".
Indeed I am a crossdresser not a individual who is transitioning.....That is who I am and a guy too!

[Kandi Robbins]

For almost 50 years I denied that I was a crossdresser. "This was the last time", "I'll never do this again!".

So recently, I realized who I am: a crossdresser. Once I realized "who I am", I have never been happier.

Not sure what is confusing about that. Who I am is also a father, is also a husband, is also a brother, is also a son. We are all many things, nothing is black and white.

[sometimes_miss]

how do we differentiate in this forum between a preferred activity that makes us feel good and a fundamental gender identity?
Until you know why they desire to behave and/or dress as someone of the opposite gender, you can't. There are, because of societal pressures, a huge number of men who cannot even consider the possibility that they are gay/bi/TS to themselves, much less anyone else. And it's going to be hard to 1. figure out why they feel this way, and 2. address it. Because if it is something such as one of the three above, they will most likely lose their wife/SO, and potentially a whole lot else. When I first came here, one of my goals was to introduce the concept of introspection to the masses, and hopefully get those who were confused to be able to figure out what was going on in their head. I had wasted decades of my life not understanding myself, and know the damage it caused. But the more I read, the more I understand that society, and most importantly women, are not ready to accept men who have any desire to behave in feminine ways, either dressing, sexually, or god forbid they aren't the fearless warriors that women want us to be. It's going to take a few generations of girls growing up believing that this type of behavior is appropriate for a guy for it to become common and acceptable to even a slight percentage. Some of our attraction to each other is hard wired; it's been found that women are more attracted to alpha male traits when ovulating, and more attracted to what makes a good daddy when she is not. It turns out that there is something physical going on there. We got scientific, and studied all this stuff. And we don't necessarily like what we're finding out. So, many here don't want to know. They chalk it up to 'born this way' create a fictional alternate personality to blame the female feeling on, and leave it at that, and try to have as normal a life as they can, because they really don't feel like they have any other option.

[Samantha2015]

Reine, I don't think I'm a woman or would even know what that feels like even when dressed.
I feel maybe more feminine and I really like all the associated female accessories.
I think CDing is a part of who I am, a small part but it's there. When I transform into
Samantha I feel good like when you meet an old friend. But I never say this is the real me.
Part of me? I guess so and that's probably all she will ever be. Don't know if I answered your
question or not but that's what I feel about my CDing.

[NicoleScott]

I don't recall ever saying "who I am", but who I am is a crossdresser, a guy all the way who likes to dress up. Even when I am not crossdressed, I'm still a crossdresser. If not, why is this guy browsing the internet for wigs and high heels (in his size)?

Reine, I agree with you (a different thread) that to communicate better both here and outside we should describe what we do rather than use words that mean very different things to people, like transgender or worse, trans.

[justmetoo]

Hmmm, I guess crossdressing is something I do, but who I am includes a part that is traditionally "feminine" (but not female). When I do the crossdressing I'm expressing part of who I am. If that makes sense... :)
(in some ways it seems similar to me to the distinction between reading books and being a reader - it's an inherent part of what makes me me. I read therefore I am? But seriously, it's not just that I read a book occasionally. Sooner or later I would feel lost or incomplete if I didn't have books to read.)

[Jenniferathome]

... Unless "Who I am" means "crossdresser?

Boring but true. I am a lot of things and cross dresser is just one of those. I'm not a woman, ever. So why would I cross dress then? Because it's who I am.

[ReineD]

Thanks everyone for your responses! I guess I've been misreading the statement "This is who I am" for many years. I've been defining the "this" for "a woman":p



Not sure what is confusing about that. Who I am is also a father, is also a husband, is also a brother, is also a son. We are all many things, nothing is black and white.

Thanks for asking. I have many different roles in life too. :)

It has been confusing because I'm looking at it as an outsider who only sees the image presented to me, I cannot see inside. And so when a person who presents as a woman says, "This is who I am", it is unclear to me if they feel they are a woman, especially in this forum where gender issues are at the forefront of many discussions. Plus, there are CDers who say they enjoy "being a woman" when dressed, and it is hard for me to know what they mean, exactly, when they choose to live as men and they do not plan on transition. Maybe it would be more accurate to say they enjoy dressing or presenting as a woman rather than being one?

[Teresa]

Reine,
We've just had this interchange in my current thread.
The need to share with a woman both as a companion and sexually so what does that make me ? It's not normal male behavior so what inside me wants to act in that way ? I'm still the same being but that female trait is making me behave in a different way ! As I said in my thread , " It's more than CDing !" just wearing the clothes is not what it's all about ! If it's an accepted term which is often used of male lesbian , some don't like it but it appears to be an apt label .

[Jenniferathome]

...Maybe it would be more accurate to say they enjoy dressing or presenting as a woman rather than being one?

For sure that's true for me.

[Taylor186]

For me being a crossdresser is one inescapable part of who I am. But I never think of myself as a woman, even when fully dressed and trying to present and be received in a feminine way.

[kimdl93]

Recall the NYTimes article you posted earlier today? It confirmed a commonly recognized conception of the cross dressing spectrum...that there is a broad range of variation from identifying as solely male, solely female and all points in between. And it seems that these differences are distinguishable in MRIs. It seems to me that if a nontransitioner makes the declaration that 'this is who I am", "this" may be anywhere along that spectrum

It seems equally likely that for even the most casual dresser, we all are wired, to a lesser or greater extent to like what we like and in that sense what we like is who we are.

.

[Kate Simmons]

Hopefully I've never misrepresented myself. I'm definitely a man who loves to express myself by dancing and performing en femme. That's the way it has settled out for me.:)

[Sarasometimes]

I'm in with Jennifer and Nicole, a male who crossdresses because he likes to express himself that way at times and has no desire to change genders. I also like the term gender-non-conforming and gender fluid.

Reined, I see where you get confused and I too sometimes wonder if a poster is a CD posting in this section or not. Good thread, Thx

[Rhonda Jean]

I've personally played both sides of the "who I am vs. what I like" card, depending on what I wanted. When I was married, for years (decades) I was all about the who-I-am/born this way... in other words, I can't help it. It's not my fault. I have to do it.

I was way the hell out there, in crossdresser terms. Then came the day when my wife announced she could no longer tolerate being married to a woman. Then the furious backpedaling started. Suddenly I was trying to play the "It's just what I do" card. But, there was no convincing her. I had apparently done such a thorough job of convincing her that this was "the way I am" that it was impossible to undo.

So, which was the truth? Now 8 years hence, I'm still not sure. I'm still not going to transition, so the "who I am doesn't extend that deeply. Yet it's not as simple as "what I like", either. Although I still think it would be possible to quit, it's not as simple as quitting other things I simply "like". I'll never understand it. It's a continuous evolution for me in many ways, yet I don't know that I'm any more (or less) comfortable with it than I was when I was 13, or 20, or 40.

For the most part, including in my own life, I think the "who I am" card is over played. It makes it seem less of a choice, therefore les of something we can be blamed for. Yet at the same time it's less of a matter of simply being "something I like" (thereby indicating that it's totally a matter of choice) than I indicated when I was doing my backpedaling.

All that said, I still haven't answered your question. Seems like it should be more simple. It's just not.

[AletaHawk]

For almost 50 years I denied that I was a crossdresser. "This was the last time", "I'll never do this again!".

So recently, I realized who I am: a crossdresser. Once I realized "who I am", I have never been happier.

Not sure what is confusing about that. Who I am is also a father, is also a husband, is also a brother, is also a son. We are all many things, nothing is black and white.

This mirrors a lot of how I've felt, including recently. Accepting myself and my gender fluidity, even if I'm closeted, made a massive difference for me emotionally. Unfortunately, acceptance for me was a double-edged sword. I'm happier that I know the source of so much of my depression and anger and can address it, but being forcibly closeted due to life gives me a whole new reason to be depressed and angry.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

It's about fantasy. When we visit this forum we can extend the fantasy to an approximation of the outside world. Here we can 'be' what we fantasise, suspend reality, and pretend...for a while...that we really are women.

This is also why so many here avoid at all costs words like penis and scrotum, coyly referring instead to 'the boys' or 'my man bits'.

Fantasy is good, up to a point. It's a pressure release, a harmless means of balancing the imbalances; expressing suppressed feelings. It isn't as if we hear voices telling us we're female. We know we're men, but that doesn't mean we want to be men all the time.

Reine, do you think it's reverse penis envy? I don't think Freud had a term for that did he?

[Jazzy Jaz]

ReineD it comes back to spectrums. There are men who crossdress as "something they do" and there are women in male bodies who need to transition. In between there are many of us who are a mix of both male and female in varying portions who happen to be in male bodies. For me i am mostly comfortable as a man but i am also part woman, therefore the woman in me is part of who I am. To transition is not a solution for me because i am not a woman in a mans body, i am a man and a woman in a mans body. Transitioning would leave me with the same problem in my new body. Again the proportion of male/female between the ends of this spectrum will vary with each individual, some will be mostly male, some will be mostly female, and some will be more half and half. This is how i understand gender.

[Marcelle]

Hi Reine,

Interesting thread. Well, I have flipped flopped across this field for some time since I arrived at this site. If you read older posts I was vehement about the fact I was first and foremost a guy, dude, bloke, man . . . etc. etc. (in my best Yul Brenner voice :)). Of course states of being when it comes to GID are never static until you arrive at where you are going. So now I can say with some clarity I am genetically a man who happens to know at times he is a woman irrespective of whether I am completely made up (wig, make-up, clothes) or standing there in all my maleness. The body may not be female but the mindset (at those times) is definitely a woman. Now to confuse you even more there are times when I do not feel like a woman at all and only see the man. Is this my end game? Not sure, I can only walk this path until it ends.

Cheers

Isha

[Meghan4now]

Reine,

I think many crossdressers have some existential angst. A wise man once taught me that three questions are being asked here, and most people never get to Who Am I. That is an intrinsically difficult question that require serious reflection and meditation.

The first question is where am I. This is really what my situation is. I am married. I am an engineer. I go out dressed as a woman once a month, etc. This is easy to identify, but our situations do not entirely define our internal being. They have influence, or are the result of who we are, but don't really define us.

The second question is closer. How am I? This is how do I deal with life. How do I see life. How do I react. How do I treat others. How do I treat myself. It takes a while to honestly figure this out. How am I may or may not always reflect who I am, but over time can shift or greatly impact who I am. And if how I am is not in concert with who I am, we take great chances of creating a troubled sense of being, and risk serious emotional and psychological unhealth.

Who I am is far deeper, and may trancend the other two question. I found my answer is that even at 50 I am Someone's child, and the other part is the meaning of my male name. Those who know me well, and are scholarly can figure that one out.

Love,

[Allisa]

Yes the term "presenting" as a woman or female is the most accurate for what I do, I believe I've used that term before in my threads and posts.

[Krisi]

This thread is quite similar to one I've been meaning to post regarding the statement often seen here "Let me be me." When I see that, I wonder exactly what this "me" is.

Obviously, the members of this forum are quite varied in their lifestyles, mental state, age, health, age, etc. We often don't say enough about ourselves for other members to understand our feelings or give advice when asked.

To answer the original question, yes, I am a crossdresser but that's not all I am. Someone posted it above; I am a husband, a father, a grandfather, and a brother. I am also many other things. A woodworker, a boater, a photographer, a handyman, a neighbor and a friend.

For a long time I denied that I was a crossdresser, thinking it was just something I liked to do. Once I looked around and saw that I had hundred dollars worth of clothes and equipment, I finally admitted to being a "crossdresser". Still, that's only part of what I am.

[Zoe B]

I guess the easy answer for 'who I am' is that I am me, I am male and I am happy being so. However even though I like to present as a woman I also use it as a way to allow my feminine side to shine through, so I think they is some fluidity when it comes to crossdressing.

[LucyNewport]

After much self analysis, and several months on a therapists couch, I have finally been able to admit what I am. It has been a long road of self acceptance. I have had to overcome my self-loathing, fear and guilt to get here. So when I say "this is who I am" what I mean is "I really am a woman". What I do (tuck the junk, pull on a skirt, put on my face etc) is just a imperfect way to show who I really am to world.

Before this realization, the phrase would mean "I am a femmy guy who needs to look like this for some reason".

[cdterri]

Krisi kind if said it. Use part of "who I am" and the bases are covered

[Mayo]

The English language doesn't clearly distinguish between "who I am" (identity) and "what I do" (hobbies, activities, relationships). I am a gamer and a scientist. I am also a bisexual and somewhat gender-variant or genderfluid individual who (mostly) identifies as a man and who happens to crossdress. For me, my CDing is more of 'what I do' than 'what I am', but at the same time that behaviour is also an expression of who I am. My gender identity is more male than female. I don't see myself as a woman and I don't have (much) dysphoria but there is some aspect or part of me that is more female/feminine, if that makes any sense (I'm still figuring it out myself!). I would like to be a woman but I'm not, and CDing helps that other part of me feel more comfortable.

For some people what they do is so important to them that it is an important or even critical part of their identity - it describes or summarizes them. For some people, CDing is what they do, for others it's what they are. I guess whether or not CD is an identity or 'a thing you do' is one of those fuzzy labels for which you often have to ask people exactly what they mean. For example, what do you mean when you say you are transgender - CD? TS? TV? bigender? androgynous? neutrois? Or bisexual - pansexual? heteroflexible? transoriented?

[April_Ligeia]

The way I see it is that I have a lot of interests that are generally regarded as feminine, but that does not make me female and I do not think of myself as female. For example, I wear makeup, nail polish and jewelry every chance i get, pretty much daily. Not every woman wears makeup, so I do not see this as a defining characteristic of being a woman. When I put on makeup, I am being myself just as a woman who puts on makeup is being herself. Hopefully that makes sense.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

Reading through all of the responses I think the general pattern is one where "who I am" = a man who enjoys dressing as a woman, but the reasons for that enjoyment vary from person to person. For some it's the creative, artistic aspects, some it's the comfort or fashion aspects of women's clothing, and for some it's the expression of an inner feminine aspect to personality. Admittedly, addressing the question of "Who am I?" is difficult because identity is rather intangible and one can easily create a fictitious component to identity just through desire/wishful thinking. I think the most objective method to assessing one's identity is to measure it by what one does or doesn't do. For example, I can tell myself I am a marathon runner, but if I never train or participate in marathons then that identity is a lie. Conversely, if I wear dresses, wigs, make-up, etc., then by proof of action I am a cross dresser even if I don't want to admit it to myself (not that I ever had that problem myself).

Bridget

[mechamoose]

I'm 'complicated'.

I'm 50/50 girl/boy, 50/50 gay/straight, 50/50 Dad/Mom. I am willing to adjust those ratios based on who I am with as appropriate. Friends? They accept me and endlessly rib me over my girlyness. They love me, and I detect not an ounce of cruelty in that ribbing.

At the market? I'm sure I am confusing as hell.

Professionally? Incompatible. They want GIRL or BOY, and have a really hard time with middle ground.

At home? I'm the wife.

How much of this is personality? How much is clothing? How much is desire?

This whole journey is all about how we figure out who we are, and what praise or criticism we get is entirely dependent upon the audience.

- MM

[Samantha Clark]

There are lots of things we all like to do, all kinds of preferences sexual and non-sexual that we all have, for things like what floats our boat in the bedroom, or different types of food, the type of art, music, books, movies, etc we enjoy, sports or other hobbies like collecting stuff we may be into, where we like to travel, and often we are passionate about these things and they are priorities in our lives, even collecting designer clothing and shoes. I suppose we could say that doing these things is who we are but if we use this language, then how do we differentiate in this forum between a preferred activity that makes us feel good and a fundamental gender identity?

Does it help to keep in mind a distinction between gender identity and gender expression? Dressing for me isn't simply a preference for an activity. It's an expression of a feeling, a need to express a feminine aspect of my being. That does not alter my gender identity. I like lots of things. Expressing all of me, including my soft side, is who I am. It's not just another thing I like, like a book or TV show.

That this is who I am doesn't impinge on my gender identity. It does change, from time to time, my gender expression. It is more than what I like because it's an inextricable part of my personality.

[HarleyQuinn]

Reine, I'm glad you posted this as I hear this all the time from my husband and was very confused by what is meant and seeing there are so may different answers hasn't clarified it fully, but makes me more comfortable in his inability to explain what this means. This is a very scary phrase for me to hear because the first thing I think is " who you want to go to bed as" from defining gender identity.


I've personally played both sides of the "who I am vs. what I like" card, depending on what I wanted. When I was married, for years (decades) I was all about the who-I-am/born this way... in other words, I can't help it. It's not my fault. I have to do it.

I was way the hell out there, in crossdresser terms. Then came the day when my wife announced she could no longer tolerate being married to a woman. Then the furious backpedaling started. Suddenly I was trying to play the "It's just what I do" card. But, there was no convincing her. I had apparently done such a thorough job of convincing her that this was "the way I am" that it was impossible to undo.


For the most part, including in my own life, I think the "who I am" card is over played. It makes it seem less of a choice, therefore les of something we can be blamed for. Yet at the same time it's less of a matter of simply being "something I like" (thereby indicating that it's totally a matter of choice) than I indicated when I was doing my backpedaling.

Rhonda, I found your answer pretty helpful actually even if you don't feel it answered the question. We have a bit of this too and there is a lot of back peddling (but then forward peddling) being done along with all the other nonsense between my husband and I. Your explanation is what I will roll with going forward and I thank you for that. :)

[Amy Fakley]

"Who I am", is a person who enjoys presenting female. I personally believe that this desire originates from a tangle of wiring in my brain that strongly resembles tangles of wiring found in female brains. I am not a woman, but I am similar to one in many ways. One of those ways is I like to feel pretty.

So I enjoy feeling pretty, yes. Because who I am is the kind of person who likes that. I can certainly forego dressing, but I can't stop feeling like I want to. Eventually that wears me down and it becomes more of a "need" at that point.

I don't see "who I am" and "what I like" as necessarily exclusive. Im Kinda surprised so many in this thread seem to?

[ReineD]

Does it help to keep in mind a distinction between gender identity and gender expression? Dressing for me isn't simply a preference for an activity. It's an expression of a feeling, a need to express a feminine aspect of my being. That does not alter my gender identity.

Although I accept your and others' need for expression, it is difficult for me as a non-CD or non-trans individual to understand this. I also have a need to express the feminine aspect of my being, in that nothing would ever induce or convince me to portray myself as a man. It wouldn't even be a consideration for Halloween! lol. Admittedly my default expression is feminine, even without adornments or stereotypically feminine clothing, because I am a female. So no matter how I choose to present, whether it is in an old pair of jeans and torn Tshirt to paint the bathroom or getting all dressed up for a fancy wedding, I can say "this is who I am" and know that people do see me as a woman.

It's difficult for me to superimpose a person's gender from my mind because our sense of gender is THE primary building block of our identities. Yes, we are other things: fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, chefs, cooks, and bottle washers, but all these other things are add-ons. When I look at people, I automatically classify them based on their gender and age group. Right? If you see a person on the street and you are asked to describe them, the first thing you will say is either a man, woman, boy or girl. So when CDs who are presenting as women say "This is who I AM" as opposed to "This is how I am presenting" or "This is what I do", it is natural for an onlooker to deduce that they believe themselves to be the gender they are presenting.

My SO told me, years into our relationship, "I know I'm a guy". I was surprised to hear this. He likely took it for granted that I knew this, but I had no way of knowing it because I took it that he expressed himself as a woman out of a need to BE one. (Again ... for our TS members this does not apply to you).

So yeah. We may respect and accept that y'all have a need to do this, but it's hard to understand especially when CDs (not TSs) say, "This is who I am". We see a female presentation, and when it is accompanied by a statement that professes identity, we take it that the meaning is a female identity.

This post got longer than I wanted it to. :p

Thanks for all your responses! :)

[Suzie Petersen]

It depends on what the meaning of "Is" Is ... right :-)

Sometimes we have to consider the fact that people say certain things and use certain phrases without having put deep thought into it. When someone here uses the phrase "This is who I am", it is possible that it is just thrown out there because it is a popular phrase, not because of some deep soul searching look inside that revealed that of all truths in the world, this is the most important one!

Quite often, in ordinary non-forum life, you will hear people say something with great determination, and if nothing is said to challenge it, it just passes and people may or may not even remember it. But, if you stop the conversation right there and ask them straight up what they meant by that, and if they could elaborate on it, then you will very often, maybe even more often than not, get a "well what I meant to say was ..." reply, that throws the original phrase out the window. It was just a great phrase that seemed a good choice at the time.

It is a little like when the school teacher wants you to analyse some writers text and there has to be some deep meaning behind it. But sometimes it just might be that it just sounded good in the story line! Or .. it rhymed with the previous line in the poem.

That said, I also agree with some of the comments here that phrases like "it is who I am" are used to divert guilt and perhaps to demand permission and/or acceptance. "This is not my fault ... It is who I am!", so in other words, Hey, I cant help it, live with it!
If it is a choice, then clearly we can also chose not to, but for many here, the problem is, we dont want to chose not to! We like this, for whatever reason, so being told to just un-chose it, is not a desirable option. Much easier if it is not a choice, and clearly, if "this is who I am" is true, then it cannot be a choice, so there .. not my fault!

Anyone who says "This is who I am" about any specific trait in their being, is clearly leaving out a number of other things they "are". It can be said to emphasize a specific part of ones being, to make a statement, but it is of course not the whole truth so maybe we should not read too much into it.

- Suzie

[mykell]

Admittedly my default expression is feminine, even without adornments or stereotypically feminine clothing, because I am a female. So no matter how I choose to present, whether it is in an old pair of jeans and torn Tshirt to paint the bathroom or getting all dressed up for a fancy wedding, I can say "this is who I am" and know that people do see me as a woman.

this stuck with me while i read and my default expression is male, but i like presenting in female clothes and jewels and makeup but hid it because it would create guilt and shame and have adverse reactions for family and those associated with me, but it is who i am, and i just got comfortable enough to share it with myself, then my wife and now strangers iv never met....going about the world dressed as i wish, wish id done it earlier, i also happen to express as the conformed expression of myself by default for most of my life and still do....its also high maintenance for myself the other way and time consuming....ive come to believe im gender fluid....im male but female activities interest me, fashion, beauty, shopping for those things, wearing those things, and i guess a little narcissism mixed in as im pleased with the result when it all comes together....and i like it....dont understand why....but i do like it....still do guy things i always have done, would just have done them wearing different clothes if it were easier...

this may help, i only recently picked up a bra and fill it as thats the way women look and i want to blend better, and being folicly challenged i wear a wig, but had long hair in my youth....wish i still did...

was in court today dressed as a my conformed self and was doing some fashion policing....and was the only guy chiming in with the women lawyers while waiting for the judge, all the other males in the room just sat there stoically....male lawyers as well....not even the usual sports banter....just being me....

[Jazzy Jaz]

For those of us who are a mix of both genders its not crossdressing that is a part of who we are, its being a woman (and a man) that is part of who we are. I am part woman whether im wearing a dress or in jeans and a shirt painting the bathroom. Sure when someone is asked to describe who someone is thats seen on the street most will say thats a man/woman, boy/girl etc. However, if the male bodied masculine dressing person they are seeing is a closeted ts then they are actually seeing a woman, they just dont see it and a man is totally not who that person is. I think this is where the public gets confuzed about the difference between sex and gender. For people who are mixed gender, woman and man are both a part of who we are no matter what we're wearing or how we look to a stranger.

[Pat]

For me, Reine, crossdressing is something I do to support the thing that I am which at present I'm defining as transgender though genderqueer, gender-fluid or gender-non-conforming come close to refining it a bit. Being dressed in women's clothing isn't an end-game to me. Wearing women's clothes helps focus me on the female traits that I reflexively suppress when I present as male too long. But in the end I'm trying to achieve an expression that is neither male nor female. I am by NO means a woman, I don't pretend to be a woman and I consider it a little disrespectful to women to make a claim like that (as I think it's a little disrespectful to truly manly men to claim to be one of them.) Sadly, there's no respectable middle ground for me to stake out at this point in time. I'm certain people like me add value to society but at the moment society doesn't recognize that. I'm hoping that comes with more public awareness.

[Katey888]

Although I accept your and others' need for expression, it is difficult for me as a non-CD or non-trans individual to understand this. I also have a need to express the feminine aspect of my being, in that nothing would ever induce or convince me to portray myself as a man.

I believe this summarises why anyone who is cis-gendered has so much difficulty understanding ANY aspect of CDing from minimalist underdressing through to pre-SRS transition and HRT. It is clear that many here also struggle to understand - I think part of the barrier is semantics (again!).

I don't believe anyone here (other than TS folk) really believe they are a woman and certainly not just through dressing. The barrier is the stubborn habituality we have towards binary male-female, masculine-feminine, XX - XY, whatever it is - society (and we to some extent as part of that) like simple black and white explanations. If you can suspend your belief in this habit, and imagine for a moment that it is possible for some people to have in their core persona aspects of BOTH male and female, then it becomes possible for some of us to enable that ability to 'feel' female by expressing that visually.

The semantics get in the way by what you (and each of us) understand by 'to feel like a woman' - that's probably as individual for each of us as it is for real women, but being part-timers, we'll likely tend to idealise that. Hence the glamour, the shopping, the dancing - and for some, the housekeeping and domestic work :) - the intensity of the experience, transient as it must be, sometimes drives us to over-egg our puddings, so to speak...

I'm pretty sure this weird mixture of male and female is who I am - and I may be better recently at accepting myself and can like what I do, but I sure as heck have had times when I don't like experiencing this inexplicable mixture of feelings and needs. Third gender has a lot going for it to explain the motivation for me (but that would be probably be an impenetrable concept for most cis-gendered and TS folk... :))

Katey x

[franlee]

Reine,
After reading so many of these post I wondered why this is referred to as Crossdressers.Com if you are looking at the percentages. The only common denominator is the designated title on the tags of gender specific articles of clothes. Simple crossdressing as I have done for over 40 years is simple, just what it says. Before PC came into being we were refereed to as transvestites, no problem there for me. I have never wondered who or what I am, I know exactly. The only questions I ever really pondered is how quick I can do it again. And just like any other stimulating experience why does this fell so good, so I can find some way to enhance it and make it last longer. I have enjoyed role play and sex with my wives while dressed and even with my over active imagination got into the role, but I never have thought or believed I was was anything other than me, just having a Great experience either shared or alone. In the end I am a CD'er and have no problem or guilt for it, it is just one part of what I do and am and my wife and I understand it. No if's, and's or or's about it. All because we communicate and are honest with full disclosure.

[docrobbysherry]

As a CD who, after coming out online here, waited 3 years for my "fem side" to appear? I share your confusion, Reine.

While CDing for me is a passion and complusion, I don't believe it is an expression of a "fem side". In fact, I want Sherry to look as different from me as possible. Yet, it IS whom I am! I know a number of guys who call themselves golfers. I'm a tranny, CD, female impersonator, guy who wears women's things. :battingeyelashes:

I guess sometimes the distinction between what we r and what we do gets blurred in our minds!:eek:

[ReineD]

Thanks Doc! But at least you've described it, without leaving an undefined "this" for the rest of us to fill in (as in "this is who I am"). You used actual nouns; "I'm a tranny, CD, female impersonator, guy who wears women's things."

It would be helpful if people in general replaced the pronoun "this" with descriptive nouns, so the rest of us would know what they mean!! :) Without the use of any nouns, the rest of us replace the "this" with what we see, and it defaults to the presentation mode which is female, a.k.a. woman, hence the confusion.

[Jazzy Jaz]

Mix of male and female who may present as either or is "who I am".

[Eryn]

Jasmine makes a good point. Many of us aren't at the extreme ends of the binary, but live somewhere in the middle. Many of us had to push through a lot of conditioning and self-loathing to finally accept accept "who I am." and that target shifted as we explored and became more comfortable with out situation.

For me, "who I am" turned out to be a *lot* more involved than simply liking the clothes, yet I don't have the "transition or die" urgency of some. I'm simply Eryn, finding my place on the TG teeter-totter with the help of my family and friends.

[AngelaYVR]

I must admit that I'm a little surprised that someone who has racked up nearly 20,000 posts over 8 years still doesn't understand us.

For me, when the clothes go on so does the girl. I'm not walking around thinking "hehe, what a lark this is", I expect to be treated like a woman because that is how I feel at the time. I am a heavily invested cross dresser. I'm also very happy with where I am and realise how lucky I am to be able to express whichever side is the strongest that day. Best of both worlds.

[Zylia]

Is it wrong to say "I play a lot of video games because it's who I am"? At what point does something you passionately like become part of your identity? What does being 'something' actually mean? How do you define the things we are? Are we assessing the value of definite statements in a non-scientific context and why?

[ReineD]

Angela ... do you know Plato's Allegory of the Cave (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave)? It's impossible for someone who only knows one way of being (non-fluctuating gender), to know and therefore understand another's (fluctuating gender or non-fluctuating opposite-sex). This doesn't mean that I do not accept and fully support.

So when a MtF who is dressed as a woman identifies as one, it is difficult to know how permanent this is. Are they TS? CD? Planning to transition? Or not? Do they also identify as a man?

Edit
Zilia ... I was just wanting to figure out if the person who says "this is who I am" while presenting as a woman would like to or is planning to transition. Keep in mind that when people post, I have no way of knowing how they live. Are they full time? Do they dress once per month and plan on keeping it that way?

Also I agree we are many other things too, but they're all built on top of gender ID which is foundational, isn't it? And we cannot establish a scientific context here. My only recourse is to ask questions to the wind.

[Zylia]

[...] they're all built on top of gender ID which is foundational, isn't it?
Is it? When does this gender ID come to be? In utero? If it's foundational, does that mean it cannot change? Why not?

[ReineD]

I mean it is a core part of who we are. More than how much we like to play videos.

I don't know if it can change. You mean over a lifetime, or hour by hour. Most people have a stable gender ID don't they? I'm assuming that if someone says they identify as a woman, then they feel they are one. Like me. Like transitioning or transitioned MtF TSs. If the person experiences fluctuating gender ID (feeling like a woman for an hour or two days, and then feeling like a man), then presumably they have a memory of an hour or two days ago and they know that their feelings fluctuate. But this is not indicated in statements like "this is who I am". I was wondering what the "this" was.

[Jazzy Jaz]

I think for some its the fluctuation of gender that is the "this". I for the most part dont fluctuate, i am fairly steady in my gender balance so its just the mix of gender thats the "this" for me. Its like men are cold and women are hot. Im some variation of warm. Because im made up of both hot and cold i have access to both and can relate/feel like both. Although im steady sometimes i can feel more hot or more cold for whatever reason. On a hot day warm water can feel cool and on a cold day warm water can feel like a nice blanket. I dont know what its like to be scorching hot like women, but i also dont know what its like to be freezing cold like men, im just simply warm. This is who I am.

[Kate T]

I don't know if it can change. You mean over a lifetime, or hour by hour. Most people have a stable gender ID don't they?

I can't answer the original question as I would characterise myself as falling outside the terms of reference of the question. However I may be able to contribute some information to the statement above. There was some published research done, I can't remember the exact reference, that seemed to indicate that bigendered individuals actually had a shift in brain activity correlating to feeling either male or female. These shifts could occur daily and even multiple times a day but could also occur only infrequently. I can't remember the exact methodology but it must have been reasonable otherwise I would have forgotten it by now. So I guess there could be a biologic basis for the concept of a duality of gender.

[kimdl93]

Feelings...even how one sees oneself...can certainly change in the moment. I would guess that most emotional responses are situational, rather than a reflection of one's gender. I am certain that over the course of a day, there are few moments where daily activities, my thoughts or my behaviors are defined by gender as such. Isn't this true for everyone, TG or otherwise?

Maybe if pressed to define one's gender in a given moment, the answer would be different because the context might really not relate to gender at all.

[Rhonda Jean]

Reine, I'd like to turn this around on you, if you don't mind. My ex told me that having sex with me was like having sex with a woman, which she couldn't stand. Part of this was the obvious... Long hair, shaved body, nails, nighties, but even when I said I'd change all that, she said it wasn't just that. It was the way I was. Other than the obvious, it was like being with a woman.

I have no idea what she was talking about. This is one of those things like you talk about where a person of fluctuating gender just has no idea what it's like to be someone who's not. I had no idea that I did anything fundamentally different than any other male. Looked different, yes. Dressed different, yes. But fundamentally different? I don't get it. Maybe it was just impossible to ignore all the feminine trappings to the point that it got so solidly imprinted in her mind that she couldn't shake it. But, maybe I was/am just inexplicably different.

You're in a relationship with someone who has all the trappings of femininity, but apart from those things, is there a fundamental difference sleeping with a person of fluctuating gender? I was told over and over it's not just the clothes. I never got an answer to what else it might be.

[AngelaYVR]

Angela ... do you know Plato's Allegory of the Cave?

I do and it's not pertinent to this situation because we are not featureless shadows, you've been talking to us for years!
But I understand that understanding us can be a very tricky matter especially when many here do not understand themselves :)

[Tina_gm]

Terrific topic. I personally view crossdressing as more of a verb rather than a noun. To cross dress, crossdressed, crossdressing.... Doing something, taking an action really IMO does not make someone something. I know, we can say I am a crossdresser, but that is still sort of a description of a person who makes a specific action. Crossdresser to me is not really an identity. A whole bunch of verbs creates an adjective... It is more of a what a person is than who they are. It is the who that causes a person to take actions which then creates the adjectives....

I am going to give a correction of sorts to a statement you made in a previous post.

Admittedly my default expression is feminine, even without adornments or stereotypically feminine clothing, because I am a female. So no matter how I choose to present, whether it is in an old pair of jeans and torn Tshirt to paint the bathroom or getting all dressed up for a fancy wedding, I can say "this is who I am" and know that people do see me as a woman.

Your default expression being feminine is not because you are a female, it is simply because you are a person who is more feminine than masculine. You are typical of the 90+ percent of females who are more feminine. Enough so that you identify as a woman, which IMO is also not necessarily female. Female is simply what you are physically. A woman is what you identify as, a woman is who you are.

TS women are people IMO who identify as women. Their default expression being so overwhelmingly feminine that they identify as women. Most will desire to and at least attempt transition to be females so that their internal identity and their physical being are matched. Then there are those who crossdress....

IMO, most who do not identify as women yet crossdress get the whole I am being or am or whatever female, are getting it wrong. A part of their identity may be that of a woman, but not complete enough to want or need transition to become a female. Or their identity may not even be a woman at all, just feminine enough to desire and take the actions to experience sensations and certain other actions of that which most females experience.

I feel personally that I am one of those which could be considered dual gendered. Basically, enough femininity that my identity is not solidly that of being just a man. Crossdressing does not make me feel like a female, or even make me more feminine internally. It is my internal femininity that makes me crossdress. It gives me some alignment of my internal femininity. I do believe that a person can identify as both man and woman, or neither perhaps, along with the 90+ percent who are cisgendered and only identify as man or woman as they are also male or female

[Elli87]

I am awsome and I like to present whichever way I please

[ReineD]

Angela, I'm not saying you are a shadow. :p

I'm saying that I'm like the people who only see and know one thing (I compare the shadows to my personal experience of having no desire to present as a gender opposite to my birth sex), and so I have no experience or personal understanding of what people know who see other things than shadows (I compare the other things than shadows to having a desire to present as a gender opposite to birth sex).

I might have left that analogy out of this discussion, it complicates things.

To everyone, please don't misunderstand. I do accept that people experience fluctuating gender expression needs. My initial query was about what is meant by "this" (in "this is who I am"), when a non-TS is presenting as a female types it in a post. Does it mean the non-TS identifies fully (all the time) as the gender presented at that moment, even during male-mode? Or alternatively (while dressed with also a need to be and identify as male at other times or as other than female)? Or does this person always identify as a gender-fluctuating being?

Words like "this" are nebulous and hard to quantify unless some blanks are filled in and I was saying that most of us only have what is in front of us to go on, when determining what the pronoun "this" means. And since we see a female presentation when people use the term (the avatars or what they represent), it is difficult to determine whether the feeling of being female is persistent or if it fluctuates according to need. :)

Hope this clarifies and I'm sorry if my question got garbled.



Your default expression being feminine is not because you are a female, it is simply because you are a person who is more feminine than masculine. You are typical of the 90+ percent of females who are more feminine. Enough so that you identify as a woman, which IMO is also not necessarily female. Female is simply what you are physically. A woman is what you identify as, a woman is who you are.

I respect that you feel that way. And although I accept that some people, namely many in this community, do experience some level of gender duality, most of us don't look at it that way. Cis-women don't believe that if they enjoy sports, have the goal of becoming a CEO, or enjoy gutting and refinishing a room in their home, it is their masculine or male-side coming out. Conversely, cis-men don't believe that it is a feminine or female-side coming out when they enjoy cooking, taking care of their young kids, or when they choose to be a nurse or an airline attendant. The majority of people have no conflict between their gender ID and their birth-sex, no matter what their preferences or activities are.

[Pat]

I am certain that over the course of a day, there are few moments where daily activities, my thoughts or my behaviors are defined by gender as such. Isn't this true for everyone, TG or otherwise?

Could be true. But there are certain behaviors that any person can have in the moment but which are characteristic of particular genders when viewed from a distance. For example, I once read a post where someone was complaining that their Girl Time was being encroached upon -- Girl Time was a particular day between particular hours. My internal reaction was that that was a very male behavior -- scheduling, categorizing, partitioning and following up with inflexible expectations. Again, any person male, female or other might do that, but the behavior is very male to me. To me, taking a social situation and trying to analyze it by breaking it into component bits and organizing those bits then searching for A Solution is a very male thing. To me, it's more female to encounter something, try to absorb the gestalt and then try to understand and then accommodate rather than "solve." Both approaches have their benefits and as a person "in the middle" I feel like I get to use them both, but I have to carefully self-evaluate when I encounter various situations to see if I'm using just one gender's skills.


To everyone, please don't misunderstand. I do accept that people experience fluctuating gender expression needs. My initial query was about what is meant by "this" (in "this is who I am"), when a non-TS is presenting as a female types it in a post. Does it mean the non-TS identifies fully (all the time) as the gender presented at that moment, even during male-mode? Or alternatively (while dressed with also a need to be and identify as male at other times or as other than female)? Or does this person always identify as a gender-fluctuating being?

That, to me, is an example of a male behavior being expressed by a female. The drive to nail down what "this" means seems very male to me. Clearly it really has nothing to do with being male, but it's a behavior more characteristic of males than females (again, in my opinion.) If I was doing the same thing, I'd have to take a moment to decide if I'm using the technique because it's required by the situation (it is) or because I'm blindly following the behaviors that were enforced when I was being taught to be a man.

BTW for me, "this" would mean my middlesex gender -- the "this" which is invariant, but changes presentation by whim or need. "This" is *not* the clothes or makeup. It's the creature working the controls of this body. ;)

[Tina_gm]

I often experience the fluctuations you talk about. When it comes me, as a person who is straddling the gender fence, a particular activity, or just about any external situation can cause me to fluctuate to being or feeling more feminine or masculine. (which is also quite subjective really) but what is on TV, if I am in the company of mostly or all men vs, mostly or all women.... the type of store I am in. Not that it always does, but it often does. I am assuming that most cisgender people do not experience this, but for people who reside in a dual gender/gender fluid type of existence, at least for me anyway, it is common. I have experienced times where no matter what I am doing or whatever external situation is present for me, I may still feel more masculine or more feminine. The times where I experience stronger femininity in a physical environment that is more masculine... all guys... hardware store etc etc.... that tends to be very frustrating, I feel very out of place and just generally disconnected. I would imagine that those who are TS must experience something like this on a very regular basis.

[ReineD]

You're in a relationship with someone who has all the trappings of femininity, but apart from those things, is there a fundamental difference sleeping with a person of fluctuating gender? I was told over and over it's not just the clothes. I never got an answer to what else it might be.

There is no difference for me. I haven't been promiscuous in my life but I have had several sexual partners (all male) and I can say there is a very wide range in terms of love-making styles. Some men are super sensuous, others are more focused on orgasm, some men have a wide range of behaviors in the bedroom, others not so much, some men are aware of and they practice tantric sex, some men have kinks (i.e. feeling submissive or dominant is sexually exciting for them), others don't frame it that way, etc.

When my SO (or other partners I've had) and I are having sex, it is the person's basic sexuality that shines through and that transcends things like gender for me. I don't ask myself who is the male or the female. lol. I don't know how to explain it other than there are HUGE variances in personalities and preferences among humans and there is nothing more basic than two people pleasuring each other when they are sexually compatible, no matter what this looks like. The only thing that speaks to gender in my view, is the physical construction of the body. Men and women have body parts that fit together in a certain way to produce pleasure but apart from that, love-making styles and preferences vary widely.

Edit
I'll add to this that at its most basic and fundamental level (please people, don't add layers to this that are not there), being hetero for me means being sexually attracted to people who have the male body part that is a yang to the yin of my female body part. This is how I am physically built to experience sexual pleasure and I dare say that (most) males are physically built to experience physical pleasure through the friction of their male body part. And if my male partner should not wish to use or if he wanted to get rid of that body part, then there would be a mismatch between what I need physically and sexually and what my partner needs.

[Tina_gm]

Reine, I do not have a myopic view on gender in terms of what a person's individual hobbies or activities are, or their employment for that matter. That is so 1950's anymore, although I see that more on this forum than in the general public. What I describe at least for myself in terms of masculine and feminine are completely internal feelings, often that simply relate to women or men. I just can't describe it any better than saying I feel more like one or the other, or relate to one or the other. My mannerisms and certain emotional ways of being are often feminine, but not by any choice or that I give any effort to being or doing something in that manner. I only give effort to not having feminine mannerisms in certain situations, in public with friends or family, and at work mostly. Even that isn't what makes me feminine truly. My mannerisms don't make me feminine, my femininity influences my mannerisms to be that of being subjectively feminine.

I know of a number of men and women who I have no doubt are cis gender and they have hobbies and interests that one could consider to be opposite of their gender if we want to go back to those types of thinking.

[ReineD]

Gendermutt, I understand how you describe yourself and I do not consider that you have a myopic view of gender. I am saying though that for me and for most people at large, we do not experience gender conflict and so we don't think of ourselves as having masculine or feminine tendencies as you described above. We just see ourselves as having interests and personality traits that fall within the very wide range of what is socially deemed "acceptable" (for lack of a better term) for women and men. Women think of themselves as women and men think of themselves as men, no matter what they enjoy doing.



That, to me, is an example of a male behavior being expressed by a female. The drive to nail down what "this" means seems very male to me. Clearly it really has nothing to do with being male, but it's a behavior more characteristic of males than females (again, in my opinion.)

Don't box yourself in! lol Plenty of females have analytic minds and like to know what people mean when they use undefined terms like "this", especially in a forum like this one when all we see are 2x2 inch avatars. Don't you think that a wife will want to know, when her husband who presents as a woman says "this is who I am", if he feels he is a female and will eventually want to transition? :)

[Tina_gm]

We're all good Reine :) You make great points about how women aren't always this or that (in general, not just to me) and you are so correct. My wife is such a good example. Such a girly girl in some ways, but her upbringing, partly on a dairy farm.... Her father a carpenter by trade, along with at times being a truck driver.... When something needs to be done around the house, her 1st instinct is to DIY, because that is just how she was raised. My 1st instinct is to call a professional. Not because of gender, but because that was how I was raised. DIY also is not a big interest to me... possibly gender related, I do not care to learn how to build or fix things, Not any enjoyment out of doing so. I do not get a big feeling of accomplishment when I do fix something. More of a relief that I didn't screw it up or simply that it is done.

[Jazzy Jaz]

I agree with you Reine about analytical minds. I think that is simply a personality type. Anyone who has ever done the True Colors personality testing will be familiar with the four colors used to categorize four general personality types. We all have parts of each but most people have a dominant color/personality type. Green represents intellectual/analytical thinkers who need to fully understand and have facts. I've done this testing many times with groups and although the population of people with this dominant personality is usually much smaller than the other three colors, the make up of this group is usually a healthy mix of both genders. This testing is accepted as highly accurate and most sales people learn it so they can adjust thier sales pitch depending on the personality type they're trying to sell to. I think the belief that analytical thinking and problem solving is not a female trait stems from mysogonystic societies such as the assertion that women were to simple minded and not logical or rational enough to vote. "don't worry your pretty little head".
To answer one of your posts Reine I experience being mixed gendered at all times. I personally am not male one hour/day and then female the next hour/day. I am consistantly a mix of man and woman.

Oh, and I dress 1-4 days a week, usually not full days but almost always fully dressed and am getting more interested in going to conventions etc "opening up"

[Tina_gm]

Jasmine, I too often find my gender is fluid and tends to overlap. I know there is a gender fluid term and dual gender, or bi gender. I think for some it tends to roll from one to the other in perhaps a slow wave, and sometimes I feel that way too, but there are a lot of times it seems to overlap as well. Sometimes annoyingly even. Malls for me can be a lot of fun, as just about any store finds interests for me, but occasionally I find it to be overwhelming as my gender ping pongs back and forth so much it just gets really confusing. At other times, I seem to just roll with it and have a very enjoyable experience.

[Katey888]

I am saying though that for me and for most people at large, we do not experience gender conflict and so we don't think of ourselves as having masculine or feminine tendencies as you described above. We just see ourselves as having interests and personality traits that fall within the very wide range of what is socially deemed "acceptable" (for lack of a better term) for women and men. Women think of themselves as women and men think of themselves as men, no matter what they enjoy doing.

Sooo... Reine - just to be completely clear on eradicating that flipping binary paradigm that seems to persist so much...

Do you accept as valid that while you don't think or feel like that, someone who has these tendencies and exhibits any sort of inexplicable desire to manifest as a female (CD or, dare I say it, TG-like.. ;)) MAY quite reasonably feel something that they believe to be akin to how a female feels in certain circumstances but not all the time...?

I think the circumstances are important because this is (even for me) about a partial switch change in feeling rather than constantly being effeminate, although some traits probably do still come through my male aspect. The dressing facilitates behaviours and feelings that would struggle to emerge in male mode. :)

If you don't get it, that's fine also - but just reiterates how hard it is for cis-folk to grasp... :)

Katey x

[Samantha Clark]

Don't you think that a wife will want to know, when her husband who presents as a woman says "this is who I am", if he feels he is a female and will eventually want to transition? :)

I'll take another stab at this. When I say "this is who I am" it should read "this is ONE aspect of who I am" not the entirety of who I am.

Does that help at all?

[Rhonda Jean]

Thanks for the explanation, Reine. I think yours is the logical outlook. I also think that most women can't overlook the trappings. In all fairness, neither did/do I. I shouldn't have been surprised.

[mykell]

I am saying though that for me and for most people at large, we do not experience gender conflict and so we don't think of ourselves as having masculine or feminine tendencies as you described above. We just see ourselves as having interests and personality traits that fall within the very wide range of what is socially deemed "acceptable" (for lack of a better term) for women and men. Women think of themselves as women and men think of themselves as men, no matter what they enjoy doing.
hi reine,
we experience gender conflict by societies default expectation of what a man represents, as with my previous post i enjoy following womens fashion and applying it into my life but did so secretively till a few years ago....i enjoy many other interests and personality traits which would be considered male and female so for me if fundamentally i accepted this when younger i would have been likely to grow up with a Steve Tyler look that was maybe a bit more female if societal acceptance was in play and would dress how i preferred doing these tasks, this is who i am....this is what i like, i just hide it because of family and societies taboos of it....without that no gender conflict for me....society deemed us unacceptable....

[ReineD]

Thanks everyone for your continued responses!



Do you accept as valid that while you don't think or feel like that, someone who has these tendencies and exhibits any sort of inexplicable desire to manifest as a female (CD or, dare I say it, TG-like.. ;)) MAY quite reasonably feel something that they believe to be akin to how a female feels in certain circumstances but not all the time...?

Yes, I do get it and I absolutely accept it. But, none of your explanatory words above are used, when a CDer with either a female avatar, or presenting as such to a wife, says "THIS is who I am". There is no mention of fluctuation, no mention of "sometimes but not always", which leads the onlooking muggle like me to wonder, "Well then. Since they are presenting as women, this must be what they mean when they say it is who they are. A woman. (not a woman sometimes and a man at other times)".


I'll take another stab at this. When I say "this is who I am" it should read "this is ONE aspect of who I am" not the entirety of who I am.

Does that help at all?

Absolutely! I think it would clear up a lot of misunderstandings both in this forum and in the home between husband and wife, if when presenting as a female a husband said, "This is one aspect of who I am" instead of "This is who I am".

I can see why (some? many?) of our TSs in the past have believed that CDers were TSs in denial, when there was no further explanation to the "this" other than the female presentation, or an account of having presented as a female. :p

[adrienner99]

While I do enjoy dressing as a woman ("enjoy" puts it mildly) I have never thought "it makes me a woman." It makes me a crossdresser. I have said, "This is right. This is who I am" about my dressing many times. It's how I answer The Big Why? I don't think I would ever transition, although I have wondered about it. Dressing is when I feel happiest. Dressing for me is also a way of escaping the pressures of being male, which is probably something most CDs do not struggle with. But I do, and I think dressing somehow relieves some of the macho expectations I often feel I am not living up to....

[Samantha Clark]

There is no mention of fluctuation, no mention of "sometimes but not always", which leads the onlooking muggle like me to wonder



:p

I think it also helped my wife when I explained that my feelings were like a dimmer switch rather than an on/off switch.

[Madeleine Quinn]

I don't think of crossdressing at all in terms of "who I am," and really never have; I've always been firmly in the "what I do" camp as far as the dichotomy Reine describes is concerned. At this point, a big part of that has to do with the fact that I have some pretty deep and serious misgivings about how the concept of "identity" gets understood and talked about, particularly in discourses in and around what's commonly known as "identity politics" in the US context. As best I can tell, all sorts of conceptual confusions abound in such discussions of identity (and this seems especially true to me in discussions about "gender identity" in particular), to the point that I just can't follow along with those discourses one bit.

[Engendered]

Ah, what a cool topic to see on my first day back in a while. It took a while to read through. Very very interesting stuff! :)

I don't think I can add any new insights, but I can at least be a voice in a chorus.

As quite a few people have touched on already, it's important to embrace the idea of a gender spectrum, rather than a binary. If someone can't do that, then it's destined to lead to misunderstandings. For instance, a long time ago, if a guy said that he was attracted to men as well as women he might be thought of as just being a gay person in denial. When growing up, I thought that bisexuality was a third point on a three-point scale, but after chatting to a lot of bisexual people it became obvious that it was never quite a 50/50 thing for them, and there was a lot of variation in preference.

The same thing appears to be true for gender identity (although not as immediately understandable), with transexuals being on one end of the spectrum, completely cis on the other, and everything from occasional dresser, to every day out and about in between.

I feel like it's easier for bisexual people to place themselves along a line...they will have an inner sense that..."well I tend to be attracted to about twice as many women as men". For someone on the gender spectrum, it's harder to pin down, but by reading all the stories and thoughts and feelings from people here, it becomes easier to see whereabouts you fit in. For me, I'm a few notches away from the out and about every day people. Out to all friends and all family, and express my female side every day. Do I see myself as a woman internally? Not completely. Do I see myself as male internally? Not completely. That's something easy for me to write in words, but a much harder thing for someone else to internalize if they don't feel it themselves. I mean, what does it actually mean to feel that way? It's a topic in itself.

But when I dress fully, adopt a female name, voice and mannerisms, and say "This is who I am", does that mean I feel like a woman and want to transition? For someone who thinks in terms of a male/female binary, it sure as heck seems that way. You're dressed as a woman, so surely you mean that you want to transition and be a woman. There are only the two options. Either you feel like a man, and all this is just some rare fun hobby, or you feel like a woman and you want to transition.

Let me reassure (if I can) any GGs here, that although I may dress, act, and speak and be confident in "who I am" whilst dressed as a woman, there is no road to transition in my future. I'm not about to get on the phone to my doctor to order hormones. Because 30 minutes previously, when I was in male mode, I could just as easily have said "This is who I am", and for it to be just as exactly true. They are both genuine expressions of me. Ideally, the "This" in the exclamation would be perfectly pointed towards the notch on the gender spectrum where I sit, but it's extremely hard to express absolutely everything you are as a person, all at once, so the best I can do is a balancing act between male expression, and female expression, to find that unique and personal equilbrium point. It might have taken a while for me to find exactly where it is, but it isn't moving anywhere. The real me is that balance.

As with everything, and something Reine has posted time and time again, clear communication is incredibly important between spouses, especially when ideas and feelings aren't fully obvious. If you feel completely male, be careful with your words if you only mean that you're embracing your crossdressing self by expressing "This is who I am". If you're somewhere in between, let your partner get a feel for where that is, and what it all means for you (if you can talk to them). Anyway, I don't need to tell people these things.

[Sarah Doepner]

I crossdress, it's what I do to help me figure out who I just might be. In a photo of me with makeup, wig, forms and a dress I can say, "This is me, searching". Even without the female appearance I'm searching then as well. I'm guessing it's almost like self-medicating with caffeine to deal with ADHD or Tylenol for back pain. I administer a prescription of time en femme to resolve and ease the conflict I have over my gender identity. I don't know about others, but I wash back and forth along this shoreline, sometimes feeling like I'm on dry land and other times I'm swimming, it's rarely consistent. That is probably the most difficult aspect of being Trans, it's all too often in flux. I'm sure that expression of gender instability makes it incredibly hard for cis-gender people to grasp what we are going through. It would be great if we could find something with a similar vocabulary that would provide that small bit of insight.

So, if I post a selfie in front of Big Ben or by the Pyramids, it doesn't mean I'm British or Egyptian, it's just where I was at the time. My gender expression may change from moment to moment but regardless of the image you may see, it is me, but it's me on a journey. I don't know how else to state it.

[Mayo]

I think it would clear up a lot of misunderstandings both in this forum and in the home between husband and wife, if when presenting as a female a husband said, "This is one aspect of who I am" instead of "This is who I am".
I think this is probably the best way to put it.

[mykell]

OK i think i got it,
this is "part" of who i am---this is "part" of what i like.....it makes up the "sum" of myself....

[Mayo]

I think Reine's point is that CDing is not all that defines you. It may very well be a significant and important part of what you are, but it does not necessarily prevent or exclude you from also being a husband, father, model train hobbyist, classical music enthusiast, marathon runner, heterosexual, a bottom in the bedroom, someone who likes chocolate cake, etc. etc. These may also all be things that you do/are. Each descriptor accounts for a certain percentage of your complete personality and identity, and some or all of these things may overlap as well, so the sum of the parts is more than the whole. The point being that this one part of your identity does not completely define and describe you and it would be incorrect for someone else to conclude that it does.

[Jazzy Jaz]

I think Reine was also encouraging those who are not ts to express that they dont neccesarily define themselves as women, but perhaps as "part woman" or maybe cder whos not woman at all, basically to not be misunderstood as a non transitioning ts.

[ReineD]

Well, it started out as a question because I had seen several posts that day by people in the CD section who said "this is who I am". I didn't know what was meant by that, given the references to a woman's presentation. Did it mean they thought of themselves as women? But then many people in this thread confirmed they walk a middle line and so I suggested it might be a good idea to specify.

I wanted to point out that to onlookers like me (or perhaps a wife who doesn't fully understand where her husband is headed), the presentation alone defines the "this" (it's the only clue we have to go on if there is no accompanying explanation), even if CDers know they are only interested in presenting some of the time.

[Claire Cook]

Wow, Reine, I just found this thread and am quite amazed at how this discussion has gone.



I've noticed many CDers refer to CDing activities as "Who I am". This is confusing to me, because in this forum, "Who I am" generally refers to gender identity. We certainly have no lack of threads debating this issue and the associated labels.


For me (and I guess this is sort of what Eryn and others are saying), who I am is me, and is more than simple gender identity. I have always known that I have female as well as male parts to my persona, and this is something that transcends sex. Wearing women's clothes is an expression of that female part of my soul. (Yeah, and it feels good!) Now I am trying to embrace the emotional, empathetic side of this. You might call this "transitioning", but I'd rather call it growing and discovering myself. And the male part of my persona is doing very well, thank you, and has no intention of leaving.




Another way to look at my question is, why would a person who lives as a man and has no plans to transition, believe that the enjoyment of dressing as a woman and/or having sex dressed as a woman makes him a woman (which is what I deduce when I read "this is who I am"). Unless "Who I am" means "crossdresser?

So I guess I am in the chorus singing "I am a crossdresser". I am me. I happily present as male, or as female, and look forward to being the complete me inside. BTW, I don't have sex dressed as a woman -- my wife and I prefer it that way. She enjoys and needs both the cuddly side of me, and the physical male side of me.

So I just added to all of the wonderful confusion about us ..... :hugs: