Continuum of Crossdressing?

[Stephanie]

When I came out to my wife last year, one of the first books she read was Helen Boyd's "My Husband Betty," which I had read a few months earlier. One of the more catching and controversial (at least for us) assertions that she wrote about in her book was the concept that sometimes people can potentially "progress" from merely wanting to be a casual crossdresser all the way to taking hormones and seeking SRS. When I first started getting interested in crossdressing a few years ago and upon resuming it this past year, I had never assumed that there was any kind of "potential" for going from being an occasional crossdresser to wanting to permanently alter my physical appearance. The only books that I had available to read when I first started crossdressing were "Crossdressing With Dignity" and "My Husband Wears My Clothes," and from those books, I came to believe that you were either TG or TS or something in between but whatever you were was unlikely to change much, if any, in terms of how much you crossdress or pursue permanent physical changes (if any). "My Husband Betty" threw that concept into question for myself and I feel that it has caused my wife a lot of concern and it probably has made it a lot harder for her to feel comfortable/secure with my crossdressing because there does not seem to be any real way (other than with the passage of time) to ever fully assure her that I do not and will not ever develop the desire to seek SRS or any other permanent physical alterations. If there is a "potential" for me to "move along the continuum" as Helen Boyd, then how can I ever be sure, MYSELF? I have thought long and hard about this subject and I can't ever see myself desiring SRS now or ever. Although I like crossdressing (and probably would do it more if I could), I feel comfortable with how I am physically and enjoy crossdressing primarily because I enjoy the rebelliousness/naughtiness of wearing clothing intended for women and presenting myself as a woman. What does everybody else think about the "contiuum" concept proposed by Helen Boyd and does anybody have any personal examples that support/refute her ideas?

[Julia Cross]

Hi Stephanie,

I have had the same thoughts many times, especially since my last wife didn't believe me when I said I had no desire to go durther than just dressing for me. Her doubts caused me to doubt myself. But after several years of pondering this myself, I firmly believe that there are those who will enevitibally go that route given the opportunity and those who will not. I believe that some of us are "programmed" and because of external forces have so deeply buried our true selves that we ar not aware of our true desires/needs until much later in life when time and experience has opened the door. And others, like myself, have different programming, let's say a more subtle version, where the desire to be more isn't there or isn't strong enough to wish to complicate one's life to that degree.

I have stated in other posts that I believe the desire and urge to be more feminine is something we are born with, just like homosexuality is something one is born with. How far we will take our dressing, is part of this.

There's my two cents worth.

Julia

[melissacd]

Stephanie,

I do not believe that it is possible to refute Helen Boyd's ideas. The fact of the matter is that it is an infinite universe of infinite possibility. Cross dressing ranges from zero (don't do it at all) to infinity (SRS) and beyond (transexual supermodel). So yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus - er - I mean the answer is yes it is possible to start small (panty fetish) and move on to big (double D's surgically implanted and a chop job in the underground parking lot).

So we now go from the realm of the possible to the kingdom of the probable. For example, is it possible that you will die in a plane crash - the answer is yes. Is it probable that you will die in a plane crash - statistically the answer is probably not.

If we extend that thinking to cross dressing, I am willing to bet that the majority of dressers may ponder from time to time what it would be like to be a woman, however, I am pretty certain that most of them are quite happy to be males. There is a difference between fantasizing about things and truelly wanting to do something. Fantasies are fun, reality is brutally honest. Fantasies are okay and healthy, reality requires careful consideration.

If you look deep within yourself, if you reflect carefully on who you are, you already know the answer to your question. Now based on what you have said here I cannot tell you that answer. Based on what you have said here I can see that you are like many of us in that you like feminine things and there is nothing wrong with that. Liking feminine things does not mean that you will become a woman, it just means that you appreciate feminine things and that is a wonderful thing.

Do some deep soul searching, consult with a qualified therapist, have open communication with your wife and you will get to the bottom of things. Read up as much as you can on the experiences of others, especially those who have transitioned and you will gain a better understanding and appreciation of what you really want.

You are asking the question because you are unsure and that is good. Now you can go and answer the question - do you appreciate feminine things (which is the right of all males) - do you enjoy that appreciation as a male, as a cross dresser, as a full time cross dresser, as a partially transitioned transexual, as a fully transitioned transexual. Yes there is a continuum, yes you are somewhere on it, yes it is possible to change our minds as to where we are, but I feel that for most of us that change is not as extreme as a full SRS. In fact I feel that for most of us it is not full time dressing either. The law of averages suggests that for most of us it will be somewhere in the middle of the bell curve which is a place that most accepting significant others can accept.

I hope this helps. I wish you and your spouse all of the best and I hope that when you find your place on the continuum it matches what your spouse wants too.

Huggs
Melissa

[GypsyKaren]

Hi Stephanie

It sounds to me like you've got a pretty good handle on it all now, so I really wouldn't worry about it. You already know who and what you are and seem to accept it, that's the key to success as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure there are some who do progress further along, but I think that's a part of a natural progression that's already been programmed.

I've read the book, and I used to be a member of Helen's community, so I've gotten to know her a bit. First of all, she's a real sweetheart who really cares, and I have no bad things to say about her. I do believe, however, that she does tend to over anylize things a bit, and makes things a bit more complicated than they need to be. I told her before I left that "sometimes a ham sandwich is just that, a ham sandwich, so put some mustard on it and enjoy". They tend to pick everything apart there and tell you what you really mean and feel, they ignore the obvious. You know yourself better than anyone else, let your wife know that, and tell her not to worry.

Karen

[Julia Cross]

Melissa, you should be a professor. Or a physcologist. Or both!

Julia

[melissacd]

Julia,

Thanks. You are too kind. :D

Huggs
Melissa

[Ellisia_Lynch]

This is an excellent thread - I read Helen's book a couple of years ago and that chapter really bothered me. It just doesn't always work like that, and certainly not for me. Helen has come in for some critisism over that part of the book, but seems to stand by her assertion that it DOES happen and any partner with a crossdresser should know what might happen in the future.

I kind of get her point, but I don't think it is that helpful for the majority of us. Does my wife need to know that I might run off with a 21 year old pole dancer - no. Or is it helpful for me to know that she might run off with a guy that looks like Ryan Phillippe in a few years time - no. The chances are that it won't happen, but it MIGHT, so should we ruin the present by concerning us with the infinite possibilities - of course not.

For all the good Helen has done, I am sure she has done some harm too, and that is precisely why I did not give the book to my wife. There is much in the book (and on Helen's website) that would have helped her, but Helen opens up a whole can of worms that whilst relevant to her situation, just isn't to the majority of us and not only hinders our progress but can be quite destructive already fragile relationships.

[Julia Cross]

Ellisia, you are so correct, for those reasons I would keep the book away as well. There is no need to concern ourselves with truly hypothetical situations based on a person's opinion. There is no proof that CDing is a progressive behaviour leading to such extreme outcomes.

By the way, I love what you are wearing in your avatar! Great style!

Julia

[Fiona K]

Ellisia, you are so correct, for those reasons I would keep the book away as well. There is no need to concern ourselves with truly hypothetical situations based on a person's opinion. There is no proof that CDing is a progressive behaviour leading to such extreme outcomes.

Julia


Julia,
I don't think Helen was suggesting that CDs/ TVs would always head down a slippery slope to full SRS transition, indeed she doesn't assert that even for TSs SRS is inevitable.

What she does challenge are the slightly cosy assertions from some CD/TV groups that it NEVER happens and that it will always be a concern for the partners of CD/TVs. Hiding the possibility, no matter how remote, is dishonest. It is for this reason that you need to read the book first and tell your partner in advance that some of the content is mre difficult to take than others.

I know several girls who have gone the full time and then on to SRS route. Not common, doesn't happen to veryone but it does happen.

Other assertions that are refuted daily on this and other forums are:
- Dressing never has anything to do with dressing
- CD/TVs are never gay

It is hard for our partners, I know from painful experience
Fiona

[Julia Cross]

Fiona,

I didn't meant to imply that it never happens, sure it does. So does cheating on spouses with another woman and amongst CD's with other CD's or men. All things are possible, but even those are not a given.

You are correct, I need to read the book, and plan to. I made an assumption on things I have read and opinions I have heard.

julia

[Ellisia_Lynch]

I guess the problem I have is that Helen set out to help people, but in catering to the minority she played right into the hands of our partners insecurities, which is a fundamental hurdle to acceptance.

I didn't get the impression that she was pointing out that it is a concern that partners have (after all that would be fairly redundant as it's pretty much the 1st conversation you have with a partner when you come out), but more of a warning. That was where I feel she lost her objectivity.

It's so frustrating as up until I reached that chapter, I couldn't wait to give a copy to my wife.

[unclejoann]

This has been very helpful to me, I haven't read the book but wondered if it would be appropriate for my wife. Guess not. I have also seen the book "Lazy Crossdresser," would that be a better choice for the wife. It seems less threatening by the title.

[Ellisia_Lynch]

I don't think "Lazy Crossdresser" would help her emotionally necessarily, but it is a nice lighthearted view of crossdressing, which is certainly how I view it would like my wife to feel the same.

[Butterfly Bill]

I have been dressing up since I was 13 and doing it in public since I was 47 and I have never had any desire to undergo SRS. (Why would I want to have to stand in the long line in front of the ladies' room?). So I am one counter-example.

The author of the Crossdressing with Dignity book probably wouldn't approve of my practices.

[TGMarla]

Somewhere inside, you really already know. I wrestled with this question, as many of us have, for a very long time. Now I don't wrestle with it at all. I don't want to go through all that just to be happy with myself. I'm already pretty happy with myself as it is. Why bother with all that. Just to wear feminine clothing? I already do that now. I don't need to turn myself into a physical replica of a female to do that, nor to feel feminine. I can do that as well just the way I am. To some it is a slippery slope, to others, just a pleasant diversion. But for those who truly wrestle with it, perhaps it is because they have not found the place in their lives and minds where they are comfortable and confident with themselves. I know that for me, once I realized that I am fine where I am, that I am as good as the next person just being me, I began to be at peace with myself, my crossdressing, and the whole "continuum". It may be a sliding scale, but we really don't need to slide all over it. We can be its master, rather than have it master us.

An afterthought: There are many post-ops who are very happy with the permanent change they have made, but there are also many who continue to be unhappy. This change did little or nothing to bring them the peace of mind they so desperately desire. This comes from within, not without. Look inside of yourself, and the answers are to be found only there.

[Melanie R]

I have been dressing up since I was 13 and doing it in public since I was 47 and I have never had any desire to undergo SRS. (Why would I want to have to stand in the long line in front of the ladies' room?). So I am one counter-example.

The author of the Crossdressing with Dignity book probably wouldn't approve of my practices.

Approve of what practices? Are you talking about dressing as a woman with a beard? If you can express your femininity while holding on to your external masculinity, facial hair, go for it.

Melanie Rudd - I type the words Dr. Peggy speaks

[Kimberley]

I am a firm believer that the true TS knows it from childhood and in the end has no choice but to follow that path. Whether they transition to SRS is another story; many do not out of financial constraints among others.

In any event this can progress from CDing to dressing most of the time but the true TS cannot accept even a partial life in both genders. It is all one way 24/7 and a complete renunciation of their biological gender.

That is my take on things from my reading.

[arianacd]

I have been dressing since about six or 7 , I am know 41 and the only desire I have had is to keep on dressing and try to pass more as a woman, with lotions and other stuff so I won't look so rugged. As to be with a man while dressed as woman has crossed my mind but I think I will never have the nerve to go ahead with that. Plus I have a very understanding wife that pleasures me that way and I could not bear hurting her by betraying her with a nother. that's my thoughts

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I'm also a member of Helen's forum (and have gotten to know her personally) and as Gypsy Karen said, she's someone who really cares.

Like the chapter on sexuality, it's easy to overlook her disclaimer that not everyone "progresses" and it's just sort of a issue inherent with "support" books that they focus on that which needs supporting.

The chapter was also undoubtedly colored by both Helen and Betty's growing realization that Betty was more than "just a CD" although at this point she's got no plans to transition. And Richard Docter in his "Transvestites and Transsexuals" documented cases where it appears to have happened -- although he cautioned it was a small number of the overall number of crossdressers. Part of the difficulty is that often when folks reach this point they retroactively recall having always thought they were transsexual. (Probably in part because everyone knows the story that you need to tell to get GRS.) Which makes it tough to distinguish them from folks who were transsexual from an early age, but who were in denial.

Incidentally, for her new book, Helen has been seeking stats (with some actual rigor) on the percentage of CDs who become TSs or TGs. She's yet to find any, so I'm sure she'd appreciate it if anyone has run across them.

Stephanie, if you've given it a lot of thought, then you're probably not likely to move a lot along the spectrum. Docter does talk about the changes some folks go through (mainly caused by joining a group such as this, or going out in public which often causes your feminine persona to become more rounded) but for the vast majority serious body mods is a line they're not interested in crossing. The problem is that it's obviously hard for your wife to see inside your head, so it really is a matter of trust.

[Stephanie]

The discussion generated by this topic has been very illuminating and I appreciate everybody's responses. In fairness to Helen, I want to say that I am not on any "campaign" to refute her ideas and I appreciate and applaud her efforts on behalf of the TG community but I feel that certain parts of her tome, "My Husband Betty," may make gaining acceptance from our spouses more difficult than it might otherwise be by focusing on troubling possibilities and fueling fears (that many partners initially have) that, although not necessarily farfetched, seem to be more the exception rather than the rule (this also goes for her discussion of sexuality). I am of the opinion that most people tend to be somewhere along the spectrum and that their position is more or less "fixed" and that any "change" in their position is really more of a "change" in their own personal level of self-awareness and/or acceptance of themselves and becoming more honest and open with others about who they really are. Good discussion!:thumbsup:

[Liberty]

A couple of years ago a gave my ex a book that I read and thought was very helpfull called "My Husband Wears My Clothes", it's been a long time and she never gave it back to me, so now as I'm further educated, it would be interesting to review that book again, I did feel really good at it's approach and felt it explained me well.
~Liberty

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I forgot to mention that Helen recommends that SOs read the first four chapters of the book and then set it aside for awhile -- precisely because the next two "scary" chapters deal with things that may not be an issue for a particular relationship. (And the remaining two chapters deal with the TG scene and TG politics that may be less interesting.)

[Melanie R]

A couple of years ago a gave my ex a book that I read and thought was very helpfull called "My Husband Wears My Clothes", it's been a long time and she never gave it back to me, so now as I'm further educated, it would be interesting to review that book again, I did feel really good at it's approach and felt it explained me well.
~Liberty

In April we are coming out with the third edition of My Husband Wears My Clothers, THE FIRST BOOK ON CROSSDRESSING WRITTEN BY A WIFE. Helen's book is excellent but was not the first written by a wife. In Husband the gender continuum is discussed relating to the continuum between masculinity and femininity. This is what is important! There are many crossdressers who later in life come to the realization that they are transsexual and will transition. Many others will not transition but will live all or a major portion of their lives as women. The important thing to know is that having SRS does not make one a woman. SRS will put Female on ID documents but will not make one a woman. SRS brings validity to some who want for themselves and society to be seen and accepted as women. We also have known many who have had SRS who have told us that if they had acceptance and understanding they would not have gone the SRS route. In a panel discussion last month with 43 marriage and family therapists at their annual conference, Peggy and I along with three post op TS's participated in telling our stories and the dynamics of being transgendered. Two of the three post op TS's said they would not have had SRS if they would have found understanding and acceptance. We hear this repeated so frequently!

The bottom line is that we nor anyone can say to a wife that your husband will always remain a CD and will not go the route of TS and transitioning. A true TS is born TS and does not choose to go the transitioning route based on just wanting validity of his/her femininity or masculinity.

Hugs,

Melanie

[gennee]

I believe helen has a point but I have no intentions of taking hormones or SRS. I'm quite content the way I am. You have a solid idea about who you are. I'm sure that in time your wife will realize that you are not going to transition.

Gennee:rose2:

[Holly]

Stephanie, thanks for starting this thread. I think all of us in the TG community have contemplated this issue at one time or another. I find the more recent comments in this thread ring true, at least for me. I used to think of transitioning more before I came to an acceptance of myself and others who I love have come to accept me. More than physical, gender is determined more in the mind than it is by genetics. If we can wrap our heads around that, even though as a MtF and the "extra plumbing" we have to deal with, it becomes so much easier to be content with and enjoy the things that are feminine that we treasure so much.

[Sarahgurl371]

I too read the book, and several others. I too thought, I guess I do not want my wife reading this one.

However the more I think about it, I do want her to read it. I want her to know about all the variations, and possibilities that exist, think about it, and make an informed decision as to whether or not she can live with this.

As for sliding down a slippery slope. I think that there are some who absolutley do. They get carried away and just want to take it further for reasons other than that is truly who they are. I too have asked myself this question many, many times.

For me, have I progressed? Absolutley. I guess deep down I knew that I wanted to go further than I initially disclosed to my wife, or had allowed myself to. But, I think that its a matter of finally allowing myself to express myself the way I want to. About loosening fear's grip upon myself. I was so afraid of were this road may lead. Now I know that I must go down it. For me. I need to know.

So yes, in my opinion some may go further than they intend or "need". For me, I just analyze (probably way to much) what, why, I wish to do something, trying my best to ensure that I am doing it for the right reasons.

[Cathy Anderson]

It's an empirical fact that some crossdressers' behavior proceeds from just wearing clothes to things like hormones and beyond.

However, this empirical fact is compatible is more than one explanation.

It could be that the crossdressing is just a lurid interest that entices some to further excess. Or it could be that the men who progress were transexual to begin with, and were in some degree of denial (which, would be completely understandable.) Or it could be both. Or another thing entirely.

So what's a guy to do? Not crossdress, out of fear of getting too carried away?

I have elsewhere alluded to a strategy suggested from mythology. What did Odysseus do concerning the Sirens? He did not avoid them altogether out of fear. Neither did he, like others, let them lead him to destruction. He found a compromise: to lash himself to the ships mast, while sailing close enough to hear their song.

Cathy

[Cathy Anderson]

It's an empirical fact that some crossdressers' behavior proceeds from just wearing clothes to things like hormones and beyond.

However, this empirical fact is compatible is more than one explanation.

It could be that the crossdressing is just a lurid interest that entices some to further excess. Or it could be that the men who progress were transexual to begin with, and were in some degree of denial (which would be completely understandable.) Or it could be both. Or another thing entirely.

So what's a guy to do? To not crossdress, out of fear of getting too carried away?

I elsewhere allude to a strategy suggested from mythology. What did Odysseus do concerning the Sirens? He did not avoid them altogether out of fear. Nor did he, like others, let them lead him to destruction. He found a compromise: to lash himself to the ships mast, while sailing close enough to hear their song.

Then again, there is always the quote of Bela Lugosi at the end of Glen or Glenda:

"Beware of the big green dragon that sits on your doorstep.
He eats little boys, puppy-dog tails, and big fat snails.
Beware! Take care! Beware!"

So, Mr. Lugosi's advice is to beware. But he doesn't say "kill the green dragon" or "avoid it altogether" (which might be hard given that it apparently sits on your doorstep!). But it is a dragon, so don't underestimate it.

Cathy

[SoCalSuziCD]

Just few weeks ago, I started to talk to my girlfriend about crossdressing. Luckly, there was an actor in Korea who dressed up as a girl in a movie and he looked very good. So I started talking and just 5 days ago, I came out to her, and we've dressed up together couple days ago. It felt great.

After the dress up, my girlfriend started to qustion more about my dressing, and I told her that I will not go through any physical changes. But funny thing is that she didn't believe me. for reals, I love who I am as a male, and I love who I am as a girl. I don't know what I can do to stop her from thinking that way...

I wish it was easier.

[Marla GG]

I've enjoyed reading all the insightful responses in this thread.

I think it's important that whatever books, articles, or websites you choose to share with your SO, you don't just hand them to her and say "Here you go, this explains what I do." All of them (if they are comprehensive in their presentation of CDing) are going to include information that does not apply to you, viewpoints you don't share, and experiences you can't relate to. I am sure every CD here has at some point read something written by another CD that made you cringe and think "I am not like that!"

It is your responsibility to help your SO understand where you fit along the continuum, and how your feelings compare with those of other CDs she may read about -- or meet, if the two of you ever join a social/support group. Your impulse may be to want to shield her eyes from the endless variation that exists in our community, and only show her the version of crossdressing that you want her to see, but there is no real way to do that. Does she know how to use a computer? Then she can read forums like this one, order My Husband Betty from Amazon, get in touch with other SO's and hear their experiences (both positive and horrifying)....do you see what I mean? Sooner or later, if she is trying to get a handle on your crossdressing and gender issues, she will probably explore the information and misinformation that is out there. So please, talk to her. Even if it is difficult and embarrassing, and even if you don't have all the answers yourself, you owe it your relationship to make sure that while she is learning about crossdressing, she is also learning about you.

Love,
Marla xx

[Ellisia_Lynch]

Yes, 'there are many crossdressers who later in life come to the realization that they are transsexual and will transition' however given the percentage of men who crossdress (3/100 is commonly quoted) the vast vast vast majority do not come close to SRS and are more than happy as crossdressers.

To say that we can not say to a wife that we will always remain a CD and will not go the route of TS and transitioning is totally innacurate and unfair, and I resent the damage that perspective can do to my relationship.

[HaleyPink2000]

I'd never read this if I knew how the material was presented.
One min things are negitive the next their ok. She's so Hormonal in this book it's pathetic. It's kind a like my MOM smoking, then Her saying your going to hell Son for having done this or that.

Haley:)


When I came out to my wife last year, one of the first books she read was Helen Boyd's "My Husband Betty," which I had read a few months earlier. One of the more catching and controversial (at least for us) assertions that she wrote about in her book was the concept that sometimes people can potentially "progress" from merely wanting to be a casual crossdresser all the way to taking hormones and seeking SRS. When I first started getting interested in crossdressing a few years ago and upon resuming it this past year, I had never assumed that there was any kind of "potential" for going from being an occasional crossdresser to wanting to permanently alter my physical appearance. The only books that I had available to read when I first started crossdressing were "Crossdressing With Dignity" and "My Husband Wears My Clothes," and from those books, I came to believe that you were either TG or TS or something in between but whatever you were was unlikely to change much, if any, in terms of how much you crossdress or pursue permanent physical changes (if any). "My Husband Betty" threw that concept into question for myself and I feel that it has caused my wife a lot of concern and it probably has made it a lot harder for her to feel comfortable/secure with my crossdressing because there does not seem to be any real way (other than with the passage of time) to ever fully assure her that I do not and will not ever develop the desire to seek SRS or any other permanent physical alterations. If there is a "potential" for me to "move along the continuum" as Helen Boyd, then how can I ever be sure, MYSELF? I have thought long and hard about this subject and I can't ever see myself desiring SRS now or ever. Although I like crossdressing (and probably would do it more if I could), I feel comfortable with how I am physically and enjoy crossdressing primarily because I enjoy the rebelliousness/naughtiness of wearing clothing intended for women and presenting myself as a woman. What does everybody else think about the "contiuum" concept proposed by Helen Boyd and does anybody have any personal examples that support/refute her ideas?

[KathrynW]

I do believe, however, that she does tend to over anylize things a bit, and makes things a bit more complicated than they need to be. I told her before I left that "sometimes a ham sandwich is just that, a ham sandwich, so put some mustard on it and enjoy". They tend to pick everything apart there and tell you what you really mean and feel, they ignore the obvious.
Karen:
You nailed it, big time. The MHB crowd has a tendency to be like vultures, picking apart every word someone has to say. Most subjects are also usually dominated by the transsexual's viewpoint. I used to call the MHB board the "TG Rocket Scientists". This place is much more user friendly. ;)

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Karen:
You nailed it, big time. The MHB crowd has a tendency to be like vultures, picking apart every word someone has to say. Most subjects are also usually dominated by the transsexual's viewpoint. I used to call the MHB board the "TG Rocket Scientists". This place is much more user friendly. ;)

It's true there are a number of transsexual/transgenderists among the frequent posters there, but the most active posters are both crossdressers, at least one of whom is pretty skeptical of "transgender dogma."

For what it's worth, Helen got tired of the tone of the boards and re-organized things in December to move the more ivory tower discussions into their own section and to create a nitpicking-free zone, which has changed the tenor of things considerably.

That said, many of the frequent posters at MHB work in academia, so it can be a bit on the analytical side and there's an expectation that one should be able to argue one's point well. OTOH, they discuss issues that don't get discussed here and I like the fact that people won't settle for the easy answers and dogma that often get thrown around in CD/TG/TS circles.

Different strokes for different folks... Personally I enjoy both forums.

[DonnaT]

I'm on MHB, and have raised the issue of concern about some posts. You just have to know how to argue without arguing :bs:

That said, on the subject of this thread, my wife has known about my CDing for 30 yrs, and continues to as "What's next?"

Something I've learned to live with, because the fear will not go away for her, like a number of SOs/wives. This is because there are a number of stories online and on forums such as these where the CD has gone further, be it hair removal, or hormones, etc.

All I can do, and probably most of us can do, is continue to try and reassure our wives/SOs that this won't happen to us by not doing anything behind their backs to break that trust. However, for many, they will continue to wonder "what's next?"

[bobbipoet]

this discussion of whether people progress from just crossdressing on occassional basis to becoming more continual and eventual evolving to a desire to actually become a woman or transexual or whatever reminds me of what common wisdom about pot was in the 1960s/70s.

It was asserted at that time that the primary danger in smoking pot was that it led - inevitably - to harder drugs, first pills, then hash, then LSD, then cocaine, and then heroin, etc.

The truth is that this type of progression did occur for some people. There are very few people who experienced heroin as their first drug experience.
Most went through some kind of progression of other drugs first.

However, over the years it became clear that smoking pot does not mean that the progression into harder drugs automatically occurs. It simply turned out not to be true.

Of course, the real danger of pot is that it can become the one and only thing of importance in life, with everything else geared up to make sitting on the couch listening to music while stoned the main objective of life. That's the real danger of pot.

And thats probably the real danger of crossdressing too: when it becomes the primary focus and objective of what your life is about, it will almost certainly interfere with everything else in your life, particularly if you already have a family, career, etc.

[LouiseW]

Bobbiepoet,
You make a very powerful point. Your analogy is on point and very valid. Thank you. While the decision to try pot does not parallel the in-born need to crossdress, the control of where either goes lies with the individual. I tried pot in the mid 70s and quickly backed off because of what it was doing to me. Today, I've hit my limit on crossdressing. I've done some HRT but I know that FFS or SRS will not be in my future. There would be too much to give up. The point is that I now know so I can be happy with where I am.

[ToyGirl]

Im a pre-op TS 32 years old , My youngest memorys i knew i was a girl, it became more apparant at school when i was 5 , where you begin to be segragated and forced to dress and act differently , while i had allways cross dressed when i had the oppurtunity i managed to to get to 26 before i truly understood what my options where. I also was born feminine looking so i had been treated that way alot of the time and liked it. But most of all was the very strong discomfort of being a male. There was never one thing about being male i liked. Certainly no reason i could think to stay one.

hope thats helpfull.

[Rikkicn]

I'm one of those that progresed...to a point.
When I told my ex about my cross dressing I assured her at the time that I wasn't gay and I didn't want to live as a woman. I knew beyond any doubt that was true for me. Well, here it is 8 years later and I identify bi sexual and I live full time as a woman.
What changed between then and now? How did this happen?
For me it manifested a little at a time.
The first piece came when I divorced. When there was no longer anyone I was resposible to and for, the world of possibilities opened up.
Second piece came when I decided to work for myself and give up corporate life. Again no one to answer to.
Third piece happened when I moved to San Francisco and met people who identified as "genderqueer". These folks along with reading Kate Bornstein and meeting a lesbian women, who later turned out to be a MTF, Surprise! showed me that there were lots of ways to express ourselves and the SRS, facial surgery and hormones was one way to go, but there were others.
That was interesting to me because I was and am very concerned about health issues around surgery and homones.
I was coming from a white, upper middle class back round and my role models for the woman that I wanted to be were from there too. But now I saw other ways and other women to model myself after and to eventually find ME.
The fourth piece came when I meet and fell in love with a woman who identifies as a dyke, who wasn't concerned about gender at all. She just loved people and she had always been attracted to gender variant people, finds us hot!
She is supporting of anything I want to do. So with worries about finding work or finding a relationship again, I could be and do what ever I wanted
Today, I live as female, kind of an Earth Mother presentation. Having tones of fun. Still want to do electorysis and would like breast implants when my chest hair is gone. But that may change too.
I've also spent these years in spiritual studies which has profoundly shifted my beliefs about the world and my place in it. I've discoved that I like living outside the "norms" of society. It is far, far more exciting, energizing and supporting.
I am my own work of art.
love to all
Rikki

[BrendaB GG]

This is a very interesting thread to read. When my husband came out to me, he gave me a book called "My Life in 2 Genders" by Jennie Boylan (formerly Jim Boylan). It totally freaked me out! Talk about a freight train, from his wifes perspective this guy went from zero to full SRS in 2 years!

I needed to read more after that and I'm so glad i found My Husband Betty. I read the whole thing and I took great comfort in it. And yes, I read the Slippery Slope chapter, and yes, it concerned me, but you know what? I felt that all the cards were on the table at that point. Maybe its just my personality, but I need to know all the possible scenarios. Helen is working on another book and I can't wait to read it. And yeah, I love her, love her book, but I hated that forum, it felt like you had to be so careful how you worded things there. I'm just an ordinary person in an extraodinary situation, sometimes I need to just say something because its there on my mind. I do read her blog every day, its really good.

I also wanted to just share another thing about coming out to wives. Today I have acceptance and I have gone back to the love. But on Day 1 , I didn't feel this way, i felt betrayed, hurt, scared, all those things. I didn't sleep well for a month. I went thru all those stages from Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's book, the Anger, denial, bargaining, etc...
I can understand the CD's who are secure in the knowledge that they will never progress further, I can maybe understand them keeping it a secret. But if you feel its a possibility that you may progress, that maybe you are TS, in fairness to all you need to divulge and the sooner the better. So I guess my point is that you may have to deal with all this at first and maybe the relationship won't survive, but if you can go though it and come out the other side, it is so worth it.

Brenda