Acceptance- Men vs. Women

[Angela Marie]

I had always been a bit confused about what sex was more accepting toward us. I had heard that women perceived us as a threat and therefore were less understanding. Well today I got an answer albeit unscientific. I just got a great lightweight pink an white jogging jacket. So I went out for a short run walk at a local park; a bit away from home. I had on the jacket, black tights, and pink running shoes. Generally i pass well as a woman but today I was in full male mode. I felt awesome and very feminine in the outfit. Every guy had no reaction. However every woman, young or old, was invariably friendly and smiled and/or said hi. As I said admittedly unscientific but interesting. As an aside this is the second time I have gone for a walk/run like this. I'm clearly becoming more comfortable presenting my feminine side.

[Tina_gm]

I would imagine that overall, women will be more accepting of it then men would be. I think there will likely be more men who will feel very bothered by it, even as being a total stranger, whereas women who we are total strangers to will probably be less likely to be strongly bothered by it. Now, that is not an absolute by any means. I was in a nail salon not even getting any service, just waiting for my wife, ( I did get a chair massage while I was waiting,) but was not getting a mani-pedi, or eyebrow wax, nothing. So, I am waiting in the waiting area and there were two older women who were scowling at me. Just being in a nail salon apparently is not acceptable to them. There will be women who are as hateful and non accepting of any type of feminine presentation, or even a regular dressed guy waiting in a nail salon for his wife, because to them, that is not where a real man should be... Probably fewer of them though.

[Pat]

Awesome! I had a mixed experience. Last week I was marching in the Provincetown Carnival parade -- I was pretty flamboyant in a pink wig and pink dress with candy items portrayed on it (theme this year was Candyland) and striped thigh-highs (finished off with sneakers -- it was a long walk.) I have a performing arts background and know how to work a crowd, but I have to say the women were the most reactive and positive. Oddly, once the parade was over and I was wandering the streets for the rest of the week in more conservative female attire, the women were less likely to respond positively and the men more likely to smile or say something. (Other gurls, of course acted as if we had been BFFs in high school or something.) The important thing is that those who didn't respond in a way that I considered positive also did not react in a way I'd consider negative. They just didn't react.

In the end I came to this conclusion: as long as they don't attack, it doesn't matter who is more accepting. There are only two acceptances I crave -- my own and my partner's. My partner is solid. I'm pretty wavering in my acceptance of me, but I'm getting better. ;)

[Tina_gm]

Jennie, my experiences in province town is that it is about 50% gay with occasional TG people who are also equally accepted. But it is a far different type of atmosphere than say the village in NYC, or Castro in S.F. It is very quiet, reserved, and even for many who are gay there, as it is obvious with the typically respectful PDA, but that my observation is that they don't really pay a lot of mind to each other. The other tourists there, who come for historical purposes, or fishing and whale watching are typically open minded people who just don't care and are fine with it. Most there have probably seen it all, but generally it is not a place in my experiences and observations that is about being super flashy or extravagant.

[AngelaYVR]

You can't judge acceptance by those who smile at you. I would say overall, that I've had more negative reaction from women than men, but they are statistically insignificant. I've also had more overtly positive reaction from women than men. But we know women smile more and that it is socially acceptable for women to be more friendly to others while men have to consider sending the wrong message. Even if you pass the most accepting man on the planet, he is unlikely to indicate that to you while you are out and about for a whole host of reasons that I am sure that I don't need to explain.
The worst reaction I ever had was a week ago in Sephora, two women were obviously speaking very badly of me in Spanish, they were really carrying on. Being two feet taller than them, I just stood over them and offered them a disapproving look. They got the message and left. The best reaction was when a woman stopped me in a department store and and told me how beautiful and elegant I looked. The only verbal comments I have have received from guys are from those trying to pick me up! (note, I'm not going to count wait staff or bartenders who are fishing for tips)

[Nadine Spirit]

For me, there is no universal rule that states men or women are more accepting. Honestly, it is about even with me.

We need to stop thinking that there are such universals among the different divisions of our human population. Some humans react well while some humans react poorly. It does not matter what it is, that is the only universal truth, in my never to be humble opinion.

[bridget thronton]

Might be observed bias. I have only told two males (son and SIL) and several females - because I felt women might be more receptive. I have no evidence to back up this generalization.

[Saikotsu]

So far I've received more dirty looks from men, though a few have come from women. I once went to a restaurant with my nails painted. When I came up to the register, the female attendant gushed. "Oh, I love your nails! Where did you get those colors?" many of the women I've come out to, smile and reply, "hey, maybe we can go shopping sometime?" or "oh. Well I'm that case, mind if I ask you for fashion advice?"
The guys usually just nod and shrug. "You re still you."
That said, I agree with Nadine. Its not a good idea to apply a generalization to people based on gender. Some will be more accepting than others, regardless of gender

[Angela Marie]

I should clarify. I was just telling about my experiences and wondering if others had the same. I was simply looking for a variety of opinions.

[Pat]

Jennie, my experiences in province town is that it is [...] very quiet, reserved...

Yeah, that's New England. You have to know someone for about a year before it's considered OK to say good morning to them. ;)


You can't judge acceptance by those who smile at you.

You're right, of course. But it's human nature to look for patterns -- that's why people hear voices in TV static or see faces on the Martian landscape. There are no hard and fast acceptance rules, but we look for them anyway.

[Sarah-RT]

I would say that women in general would be more accepting and we would actually become less of a threat to them however you get a bad apple in every bunch and 1 or 2 of the former female friends I've had have gone on to tell others about me

[SusanMarie]

In my experience...women more accepting in general(some will even talk with you)...men just dismiss you (if they even 'read' you at all)

[Allisa]

I have found that women are more accepting, in my adventures, but then I'm not very threatening with my stature and the places I frequent are mostly occupied by females and I think that the men I encounter are intimidated by a femme man in "drag" thinking that they are gay and that is a threat to their manhood still in this day and age. Just my opinion be it right or wrong.

[Alice Torn]

Many redneck good ol boys will be offended, and their masculinity threatened. Mos women seem more tolerant, or accepting, but, like others said, there are few who do not like us.

[grace7777]

I have noticed that when I get a negative response from a male, they usually tend to be with other males. Most males who are alone tend to say nothing. For some reason the pack mentality causes men to behave badly.

Whenever I get a compliment like "I love your boots", it is almost always by a woman. My feeling is women are a lot more likely to show their approval than men. If a man compliments me it tends to be more sexually oriented. There have been males who have held doors open for me as they would for a GG.

My feeling is women are more accepting, but it is a feeling that is not backed up by evidence.

[UNDERDRESSER]

From what I've read, and heard from others, women tend to be more accepting, except, when it is their SO. I have been wearing skirts full time, at work too, and there is rarely any visible reaction from guys, that could be just because they have no easy way of categorising me, and so default to a neutral look and pretending the problem doesn't exist. Women are much more likely to react, and has been almost universally positive. Whenever they have actually said anything, it's been complimentary. Sometimes, the reaction is just a lot of smiling, but then, they could be just sniggering to themselves.

[LeslieSD]

I don't know which side is more accepting. I just had that discussion a few days ago with a friend. But I don know one thing: if someone do not like me and may become threatening to me, I would much prefer that someone is a less masculine female. :)

[Marcelle]

Hi Angela,

It really depends if you are truly talking about acceptance or tolerance. I think with tolerance and by this I mean either just letting you be or making some sort of approving/supportive gesture, it would be women. However as Angela pointed it that could just be a matter of women tend to be more socially engaging (smiling) whereas a man is less likely to smile or nod. Now acceptance is accepting you on all levels. My wife accepts me for who I am irrespective of how I am dressed. I have been working as a woman now for about three weeks (off an on with some stints longer than others) and I would say the level of acceptance in the military culture I work in is dead even between men and women.

Cheers

Isha

[kimdl93]

I don't for a moment accept the notion that women find "us" threatening or competition. That's a CD fantasy. I would hesitate to generalize based solely on my personal experience, which has been overwhelmingly positive from both men and women....positive in the sense that those I interact with in any meaningful way have almost always been courteous, friendly and respectful. I've been addressed in a gender appropriate manner as well.

[weyburn]

Generally speaking I think women are more accepting but If I am out on the town there are many men usually married that are at that point in time very accepting.............LOL

[Katya@]

I don't for a moment accept the notion that women find "us" threatening or competition. That's a CD fantasy.
I disagree. Women are notoriously more jealous than guys. If they find a guy who looks better in a skirt than they are (e.g. they can't even fit in one) they will hate you.


I had always been a bit confused about what sex was more accepting toward us. I had heard that women perceived us as a threat and therefore were less understanding. Well today I got an answer albeit unscientific. I just got a great lightweight pink an white jogging jacket. So I went out for a short run walk at a local park; a bit away from home. I had on the jacket, black tights, and pink running shoes. Generally i pass well as a woman but today I was in full male mode. I felt awesome and very feminine in the outfit. Every guy had no reaction. However every woman, young or old, was invariably friendly and smiled and/or said hi. As I said admittedly unscientific but interesting. As an aside this is the second time I have gone for a walk/run like this. I'm clearly becoming more comfortable presenting my feminine side.
I think women are checking each other out all the time, and often compare others wIth themselves. Thus they pay attention more. And reaction can vary if another women looks better or worse. Guys - pretty much oblivious to who wears what. If they noticed you - likely by accident or something was really unusual in a way you look.
Personally, the only one time I was out for a day, I was more nervous around guys because I was more concerned from not getting into a fight. I never felt threatened around girls. Maybe only not comfortable, but it is OK.

[jjjjohanne]

I don't for a moment accept the notion that women find "us" threatening or competition. That's a CD fantasy. I would hesitate to generalize based solely on my personal experience, which has been overwhelmingly positive from goth men and women....positive in the sense that those I interact with in any meaningful way have almost always been courteous, friendly and respectful. I've been addressed in a gender appropriate manner as well.

I do not think I have observed women exuding a sense of threatening from me when I have crossdressed. However, I think that Caitlyn Jenner has gotten a much stronger reaction from some women I know who say "he is NOT a woman." They may not feel adamant about how Jenner dresses, but they are offended at the suggestion that a transgender man is a woman. I don't recall any men expressing any opinions about the bountiful numbers of homosexual women who roughly present male.

[jjjjohanne]

In general, I have always avoided men while dressed because I feel like there is a more negative reaction to be had. However, I have not observed it. Everyone seems to react to me equally. The most negative reactions I have gotten are from women. Likewise, the most positive reactions have been from women. In general, men that I have interacted with have not acknowledged my clothing and they have treated me in a matter-of-fact, professional way.

[BillieAnneJean]

I go out maybe fifty times a year. Women, mostly the 20-50 age group seem to like what we do. Older than that the friendliness decreases dramatically. The younger ones just seem to get a kick out of it.

Guys........ Hmmm. It is a crap shoot. I have had older guys have fun with it but more rare than the younger guys. But I stay away from the sports bar kind of places and mostly frequent the clubs.

I also go to the usual commercial establishments.

So my experiences are mostly not gay bars.

[Teresa]

Angela,
In those circumstances maybe the women are thinking you're having a bit of fun and the guys are thinking weird guy ! Somehow that appears to change round when shopping, if you're going to get looks it will come from women whereas the men tend to ignore you ! The one exception I had was when a guy saw me trying on 4" heeled boots the SA was just zipping them up when we became aware of him with his jaw on the floor, I shall never forget that moment !!

[Rachel Morley]

In those circumstances maybe the women are thinking you're having a bit of fun and the guys are thinking weird guy !
That's exactly what I was thinking too :)

[char GG]

I go out with my SO quite often. He dresses very tasteful and doesn't really call attention to himself by wearing "stripper-wear" or "fetish-wear" in public. He doesn't wear bright blue/purple/green eye shadow or ruby red lipstick. The makeup is understated and well done. The younger women usually will say something nice to him (I like your shoes, boot, dress, nails, etc). Some of the older women will comment; always in a positive manner (how often do you go out? why do you CD?) They are also usually very polite. Most men (except the trolls) just ignore him. He's had very few negative comments and those were from other men.

Some of the CDers that we know do go out in clothes that is typical of a "working" woman. Guys try to pick them up, there is a lot of hooting and whistling.

I don't think most women find CDers "threatening" or "competition". I support what Kimdl93 said - that type of thinking is a CD fantasy.

Soooo, my thought is that the presentation makes a difference as to how the public responds.

[MissTee]

I've been at many behind the scenes chats of both men and women. On the surface women seem more accepting and will even chat you up. After you're out of earshot, that have a lot to say and half of it is not flattering. You become a topic of great conversation and get dissected. In lengthy detail. In essence, to the ladies encountering you has great entertainment and conversational value after the fact.

Guys on the other hand do notice, but often don't remark. Out of ear shot the conversations (at least the ones I've been pulle into) are brief and definately disrespectful, but don't last long. Men who dress like women just make them uncomfortable. It's an affront to the man card, and non-CD men don't even like to talk about it.

Just my humble observations . .

[Angela Marie]

I was out as Angela on Sunday shopping and dining (bad quality picture attached lol) and had no problems whatsoever. Yesterday I decided to go without makeup and wig. Just wore a pair of jeggings, pink running shoes and a black purse. To my surprise i did not get many odd looks even from older persons. I just think that society is becoming more accepting. And if not accepting they just don't care. Either way i'm fine. My original post was just my perceptions but I see there is a wide variety of opinions.

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