So Unfair

[JaytoJillian]

Last night, I enjoyed a great evening with friends at a swank waterfront restaurant area-the weather was perfect--balmy and breezy. As we relaxed, I took note of what the ladies were wearing--soooooo many great looks from short skirts and dresses with heels, sandals and flats, to short-shorts and tops with plunging neck-lines. All of us guys (yes, I was in drab) were just one long parade of BORING t-shirts/polo shirts/button-ups paired with shorts/jeans/slacks. I was bummed when I thought about how socially unacceptable it is for men to dress in "women's" clothing, but the ladies can wear whatever. I know guys get over in soooooooooooooo many other ways--like the pay gap which is wayyyyy more serious of an issue than this, so no need to begin a debate about who has it better when it comes to men and women. I just wish everyone could be free to wear what they want, when they want. Can I get an "Amen?"

Cheers,



Jillian

[Katey888]

Can I get an "Amen?"


No. :)

Remind me again what prevents you wearing what you want? We have plenty members here who go out wearing what they choose whether full on femulation or just a bit of Moosey swishing (sorry MM.. :))

You ARE free to wear what you want, when you want - you just have to be prepared for the exposure and any reactions that go with that... like others do.

Have a think about the folk who can't even get to a swanky waterfront restaurant in any mode before you start complaining about unfairness... :Angry3:

That's not even entertaining. :straightface:

[JaytoJillian]

Oh geez Katey.

Really, you found this post to be heavy?

Heavy is being a victim of trans/homo phobic violence because of the way you're dressed.

So no, not everyone is "free" to wear what they want where they want or when they want.

And me going to a swank eatery has zilch to do with fairness, I came from a family that had next to nothing, but I learned quickly to work twice, sometimes three times as hard as my peers to get ahead. That said, I've earned any bit of "swankiness" to which I decide to treat myself or my friends.

[JenniferR771]

Amen. Acceptance by everyone and everywhere would be so cool!

[Tracii G]

I'm with you Jill.
Katey gets all worked up sometimes but let it slide.

[Ally 2112]

A lot of times i have felt the same way Jill :)

[Alice_2014_B]

I've been to events like that; so jealous of how the women dress.
:)

[Tracii G]

A constant thing with me and I am jealous of women and what they can wear.
Guy clothes are so boring that why I don't wear them.
People probably think I'm weird for dressing the way I do but its their problem.

[denese]

Amen, Amen, and Amen. that's really how i feel too. like someone posted recently, i don't really want to go the whole route all the time. sometimes i just want to wear whatever feels good, comfortable or right.

[stacycoral]

amen would it not nice just to wear what you want to, and when you want to. hugs.

[Allisa]

Such is life, just curious but did your friends know of Jillian? If so you had a choice in your manor of dress. But as long as you enjoyed yourself why sweat the little stuff?

[JaytoJillian]

Such is life, just curious but did your friends know of Jillian?

Nope, they have no idea.

[mikeyp]

Yeah, I've tried CDing at a mall before. Worst experience of my life so far /;. I got called out by some redneck guys and soon enough, I had to leave the mall because it spread like wildfire. My calves are huge, my feet are like a size 13 in heels and my face is pretty masculine, but I am 5 '6'! I too wish I could wear whatever I felt like without any backlash. Maybe in like 20 years this will all be over?

[AngelaYVR]

Actually, I'm with Katey. Who forced you to NOT wear a nice suit or sport coat? We get this argument all the time but there are members here who do wear what they want and they have lived to post about it.

[Ineke Vashon]

It gets worse. Look at the recent prez wannabe's debate. All the men in the same same-oh black suits. Check out formal heads of state meeting in Europe, all the men in the same black suits. To paraphrase Henry Ford: "You can wear any suit you like as long as it is black." Women on the other hand can dress anyway they please, any color, bare arms, legs, a freedom we could only wish for.

Who decided that us men have to dress as :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:?

Ineke

[MelanieAnne]

Remind me again what prevents you wearing what you want?

I'll take "What Is Common Sense" for $100, Alex.

[JaytoJillian]

Who forced you to NOT wear a nice suit or sport coat?

Well, the last time I checked, the "T" in LGBT is not a protected class here in the states. If presenting the way I'd like could be grounds for dismissal from my job, I would say that there is indeed a policy that "Forces" me to dress a certain way.

[AngelaYVR]

Well, in that case, complaining here will definitely change the law. Or you could wait for other people to expose themselves to do it, I suppose.

[mikeyp]

Well, in that case, complaining here will definitely change the law. Or you could wait for other people to expose themselves to do it, I suppose.

this is the plan! low self esteem warriors unite

[JaytoJillian]

Wow, Ms. Angela--the few replies you've made to my posts have been on the border between snarky and mean--what have I done to you? This really was a light-hearted post about a CD (ME) having a Walter Mitty moment while watching a parade of great outfits.

Geez

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Jillian, You are preaching to the choir here.:hugs:

[Elli87]

Amen, Everyone should be allowed to dress how they like. Always remember if someone has a problem it's their problem let them keep it.

[justmetoo]

I get what you said in the OP, J, and the tone of your post as well. I get feelings of wistfulness when I see women in various settings wearing outfits I would love to be wearing (although, in some cases only if I could look half as good as they do in them). :)

Sure, we could wear these things, but there could be a cost we aren't willing to pay in the particular circumstances. Or there could be other extenuating factors at play.

But we can still dream. :D

[Suzie Petersen]

Jillian: ... post about a CD (ME) having a Walter Mitty moment while watching a parade of great outfits.

Ha ha!! That brought a smile to my face girl :-) I love that movie and could absolutely connect the dots in that mental image.

I'm with you on the wishful thinking too. I have had my fair share of envy of the womens outfits over the years, both business and casual situations. And no, most of us cant just do it if we want to for all sorts of reasons.

- Suzie

[Sarah Doepner]

I do the wishful thinking thing as well. The closest I can get to wearing something fun is when I pick something out from my collection of Hawaiian shirts. The ladies have nothing on me as far as colors or patterns there. Of course those shirts are usually paired with a pair of tan shorts or jeans, so it's a limited act of color, but I do like it when nothing girly is going to be acceptable.

[LeslieSD]

I can feel what the OP said. Everyday when I come to work and see the girls in the building come and go in nice dresses, I dreaded and hope I could do just that.

[AngelaYVR]

Jillian, it may have been a light hearted OP but the moment you brought the law and rights into it, it no longer was. If it is so important to dress at work, either work from home, change jobs, start your own company, work to have your rights recognized, etc. We get this old chestnut rolling around all the time. You can buy very nice men's clothing in a huge assortment of styles these days. Anybody who says otherwise has been too lazy to look. I'm also willing to bet you never approached your boss and asked about dress code variances.

Things don't change by themselves. This isn't meant to be mean, I just find these attitudes exasperating.

[Leslie Langford]

No. :)...You ARE free to wear what you want, when you want - you just have to be prepared for the exposure and any reactions that go with that... like others do...

Fair enough in principle, Katey, but the point that you fail to acknowledge here is that this issue goes beyond simply asserting one's sartorial choices and then having the cojones to face any potential negative reactions that may be an outcome of this.

There can actually be severe consequences for some for flaunting convention - especially insofar as the LBGT community is concerned - that go far beyond mere ridicule. Perhaps the U.K. in general embodies a more tolerant society in that respect, but this is still not the norm in the U.S. where Jillian resides. LGBT "rights" are still a patchwork there as they are legislated on a state-by-state basis rather than on the federal level, with 31 of the 50 states offering virtually no specific protection for members of our community.

So, while Jillian may be free to openly wear her most exquisitely feminine outfit while still otherwise presenting as a male (if she so chooses) and even if she succeeds in staring down her detractors in the process, she may still face the prospect of getting her @ss (@rse ;)) fired from her job the next day (or evicted from her domicile if she is renting) if word of this gets back there and someone in a position of power takes exception to her lifestyle. And legally speaking, there would be nothing that she could do to prevent this from happening as things stand today in the "land of the free, home of the brave", depending on where where she lives.

Fellow Brit John Oliver, who hosts a satirical "news" show on the HBO network in the US, spoke convincingly to this egregious travesty of justice in a recent broadcast which was also posted to youtube:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d667Bb_iYA

[Jenniferathome]

I'll give you an Amen Jillian!

Current social convention dictates that men be boring and women are attractive. Funny thing is, in the animal world, the male of species tends to be attractive so as to attract the females. I guess evolution went just a hair too far for cross dressers;-)

[Robin414]

I'll give you another Amen Jillian! Honestly, if you're CD, and depending on your environment (work, friends, image) there's a REALLY good chance that you'll at the very least lose a lot of peer respect, and likely a lot more than that

[Annlikia]

Male to Female Crossdressing is nothing new and has been around since the dawn of time. it is getting more and more popular and is here to stay.

[sometimes_miss]

As much as I hate reading another 'girls get to wear this so why can't I' thread, I let it slide because so many GG's whine about the same problems endlessly pretty much all the time. So if you like to emulate women, discussing the same problems without ever coming to a conclusion over and over and over and over and over is one of the ways to do it. Now, why did revlon go and stop making melon orange lipstick #4432? Don't they know it's the only one i can wear? Now I have to go shopping again to find a new one to match my dress of that shade, because nothing else really looks right with it, and after I found shoes and a bag to match I'm certainly not going to just dump all that to goodwill just because they declared that shade to be out of style! And did you see Matilde! She certainly needs to touch up those roots! She lets it go too long every month, I swear, everybody in town knows that she's not a real blond by this point. At least she could wear a hat or something. and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on......................

Oh yeah. Amen.

[JeanetteX]

Jillian.....just a big, very big Amen!!! Enough said

[Marcelle]

Hi Jillian,

I am not going to even go down the "rabbit hole of who gets to wear what" as it never goes well. The cold hard reality of all this is that women took what was stereotypically male fashion back in the day (pants, suit jackets and whatnot) and made it their own . . . these are not men's clothes, these are women's clothing irrespective of whether they are jeans and a t-shirt or dress pants and a blazer. Convention has dictated that men tend to dress a bit drab but we can think the "Leave to Beaver neo-conservative fashion sense of drab suits and hats" for that one. However, I have seen plenty of guys dressed in bright colours and great suits which some men would never think of wearing.

However, I get your point about not being able to truly wear what you want and in this case I am assuming (and correct me if I am wrong) you mean wearing women's clothing. Yes, in theory we are all free to wear what we want but there is a price to be paid for such a right. Specifically, if you plan to go out in women's clothing whether you go all out (make-up, wig, forms, etc.) or just a dude in a dress there are going to be haters and the potential for blowback is there. However, if it is something you truly need to do and are prepared to take all that comes with it . . . then alas . . . you do have that right.

Cheers

Isha

[Donnagirl]

Jillian,

I'm sort of with you... Whilst we can, in theory wear whatever we want, whenever we want, there are varying levels of constraint imposed, either internally or externally that are outside our control... Whereas I could wear my sparkly mini dress to my kids sports presentation night and at least the parents in his team know about me, it would be throughly inappropriate and breach some of the boundaries my wife and I have set. Notwithstanding the embarrassment and future bullying the kids will experience...

Tomorrow is an LGBTI support day at work, with a 'Wear Purple' theme.... Do I wear a purple tie or my knitted dress and boots. Now everyone at works knows so what's the problem??? Well firstly I have promised HR not to just show up one day but to let then 'pave the way' first. Secondly, I have a meeting with senior police and intelligence tomorrow and I might not be 'representing the agency' to the most acceptable standard.

So yes Katey is right, there is nothing physically stopping either of us wearing anything we want but there are plenty of intangibles blocking the way! And yes I often watch the girls at work quite envious of what they are wearing.

[Angela Marie]

Jillian:

I understand your comment and frustration. I love wearing leggings and just bought a nice light blouse. I would love to wear it out but circumstances as they are I cannot. While there is more variety in men's clothes these days it does not come close to what is available to women.

[Mollyanne]

Hi Jillian, I CAN FEEL YOUR FRUSTRATION AND ANGER. I too would LOVE to go out wearing whatever I liked but this would not be practical (for me anyhow) because of tunnel thinking people. Yes, women can wear whatever they choose and the male of the species must adhere to specific rules of gender identification (yeah I know, it sucks). Me personally, I prefer to be in a skirt or dress with a stylish pair of heels and feel the hair on the back of my neck with the feel of earrings in my lobes. Or to be more specific, be recognized as the woman that I was supposed to be.

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN

Molly

[deebra]

Jill, I agree with every word you said in your OP, and Amen to all of it. I too like so many others here are envious and appreciative of how attractive women dress and all that is accepted and available to them to wear. Haven't heard from you in quite a while, so glad you are back. Please post some of those beautiful feminine pictures of yourself. If the boys had seen you in fem they would have been slobbering all over themselves. And as nice as your look dressed wouldn't it be so nice to see you go to work every day dressed as your pic shows. You are something we all would like to be, so glad you're back.

[mykell]

hi jill,
here is your amen, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGchlqCjj8A
as to the wearing what we want, we can, like stated we have inherent risks by doing so, but anytime you want to come down the shore and take some baby steps doing it i would love to share that with you, a wing girl so to say....

[mechamoose]

No. :)

Remind me again what prevents you wearing what you want? We have plenty members here who go out wearing what they choose whether full on femulation or just a bit of Moosey swishing (sorry MM.. :))

You ARE free to wear what you want, when you want - you just have to be prepared for the exposure and any reactions that go with that... like others do.



Moosey swishing :)

I will give an Amen to Katey, AND J2J.

Male clothes are very much a uniform, which is sad. Even the stuff in nice colors is the same shape & cut as the boring stuff. But there is nothing forcing you to wear it. I started by filtering in a female item here and there, and it has spread to more over time.

<3

- MM

[ChristinaK]

Jillian, wow, you kicked up some dust, huh?

I totally agree with you. I need to buy some men's clothes, but haven't just because, like you said, they're the same old thing. Women have a huge variety of things from sleeve styles, to collars, colors, prints, paisley or psychedelic. So many pants, skirts and on and on.

The choices of men's clothes are also VERY limited based on the location, such as demographics, rural, urban, etc. So, unless we travel a long distance to find that v neck, ribbed knit, reddish pink sweater, our choices are very limited, assuming one lives in a fairly rural area. Mail order, you say? If you're built like me, not so successful with that.

In addition, men are scrutinized harshly depending on the environment. Yesterday, I drove completely through the deep South. I have blonde, dyed hair down to the middle of my ears. I wore a flowered men's Hawaiian style shirt, jeans and blue tennis shoes.

EVERY time I went into a convenience store to potty or buy something, people stared. Not just the surreptitious glance by one. They all did it. One lady even looked me up and down and laughed. It was as if I were in drag because I didn't have a buzz cut, beard or goatee and wasn't wearing some stupid t shirt and baggy assed shorts.

So, depending on your environment, dressing outside the norm can absolutely bring scorn, hate, distrust and isolation.

We must be careful not to generalize about how we can present regardless of location and be sensitive to those in environments where even metro sexual will get them their asses kicked, or at the least ostracized by their peers, friends and family.

[Sandygal]

Jillian....I enjoyed your comment for what it was. Some forget this site is called crossdressers.com, not everybody goes all the way to womanhood. com.

[Sara Jessica]

I can certainly empathize with the pangs we feel when in guy mode and surrounded by the glory of the myriad of choices women seem to have when it comes to their wardrobes. Thing is, our collective points of view are colored to feel this way and I can sigh with the best of y'all when faced with these situations.

But it ends there.

I guess I'm one of the rare ones here who subscribe to the gender binary in our society except to the fact I was drafted to the wrong team. Men generally have zero interest in the fact their closets aren't full of skirts and dresses, heels & flats, etc. to choose from when getting dressed in the morning. This doesn't mean they are Neanderthals. They simply don't care and are all good being the dudes they are. If a man has any sort of fashion sense, he can make anything he wears look amazing. Take any man who looks stunning in a nice suit, care to picture him in a dress? Think he is lamenting the lack of color in his wardrobe as he gets dressed in the morning? Not a bit. He knows he rocks the suit and that is all good for him. The thought of injecting femininity into his wardrobe repulses him, just as many here seem to be repulsed at the supposed limitations perceived in the male wardrobe.

It happens that I read an internet article this morning which had what looked like a stock photo showing the face of a really pretty girl as she gazed into the eyes of her hipster-bearded guy and I was struck by the beauty...not of her but of the differences between women and men. Yin and Yang, it all seems to make sense. Perhaps I have taken a long drink of the gender binary Kool-Aid but this is how I see the world. And at the exact same time I also appreciate diversity with respect to gender but this acknowledges we are outliers and that I am one of them. I have zero desire to affect change when it comes to the average man's closet. If he is all good with his choices or perceived lack thereof, who am I to try to change his mind? Especially when I have no desire for him to try and change mine.

[Carolina]

Amen Jillian. Too many times, and even more lately, i look around me with envy seeing the beautiful dresses, skirts, blouses, heels and general outfits that the ladies are wearing. I took your post as a comment not intended to raise a big issue but just to share some frustration. I'm not sure about fairness, but i do know i envy the ladies' ability to wear what they wish without being subject to significant criticism. I envy their dresses and outfits wishing it was me the one wearing them (and looking as good as most GG do). I have beautiful outfits myself, but i don't think I can pass nor I have the chance or the guts to try either.
No matter what, it is a mix of frustration, envy and some feeling of unfairness (probably unreasonable one) but nonetheless you/we should have the right to express your feelings. So Amen!

[kimdl93]

Amen. With my caveat. I love the clothes, but I wouldn't ever want to wear them with out getting properly made up and decked out. Part of the reason the clothes look so good is that women are wearing them!

[Krisi]

The "Why do women get to wear cute clothes while men have to wear boring clothes?" thing has been done to death here. In most of the USA, you can wear whatever you want in public, but of course you have to face the possible consequences. Stares, laughter, cat calls, threats and possibly worse. A restaurant might choose to not let you in because of a dress code or fear that you will become a distraction. As Sarah posted, men can wear some colorful clothing if they choose. Years ago I used to have sets of matching suspenders and ties that I wore to work.

If anyone thinks things will change and men will be wearing miniskirts, high heels and fake boobs out in public anytime soon, I would be willing to bet against it.

The myth about a pay gap is just that, a myth. Where I worked, men and women were paid equally for the same job classification and years of service. There's nobody out there paying women plumbers or electricians differently than the men. Same for teachers, librarians, bus drivers, you name it.

PS: I agree with Kim; the cute clothes look good because cute women are wearing them. They aren't going to look quite as cute on a guy built like Hulk Hogan. (They don't look cute on a woman built like Hulk Hogan either.)

[JaytoJillian]

The myth about a pay gap is just that, a myth. Where I worked, men and women were paid equally for the same job classification and years of service. There's nobody out there paying women plumbers or electricians differently than the men. Same for teachers, librarians, bus drivers, you name it.

Hmmmm, the Institute for Women's Policy Research and Stanford University must have it wrong.

http://www.iwpr.org/initiatives/pay-equity-and-discrimination

https://web.stanford.edu/group/scspi/_media/pdf/key_issues/gender_research.pdf

[Christie ann]

You also have my amen to your original post. My favorite times are summer weddings when I am supposed to wear a long sleeve shirt under a coat all with a tie while my wife and daughters wear some beautiful cool flowing thing with sandals no less.

[grace7777]

From what I see you decided that Being out in drab at a restaurant with friends was a better option than going out on your own fully en femme to another restaurant. I have no problem with the decision you made, but you made that decision. Now you could risk losing the friends, but for a crossdresser, that may be to high of a price.

For me I see myself being more to the TS side, so I am finding myself willing to make more sacrifices. Outside of work situations I am mostly out fully dressed en femme. There have been sacrifices. I like going out to restaurants and being dressed fully en femme, and largely I go alone. Same with going out to stores. At times I go out with others to cd/tg events or with other tg persons, or people accepting of tg persons. So I am limiting myself, but a decision I have made that I am good with.

As I said, in work situations I do not go out fully dressed en femme. Another decision I am ok with right now. I am looking for an employment situation where I will be able to be dressed fully en femme. If I should be fortunate enough to find this, I am sure it will not be without sacrifice.

Many trans women are living 24/7 as a woman, and some have lost jobs, families and friends because of it. My sacrifices do not compare to some of these women and what they have given up.

A GG also makes sacrifices because they are a woman. One woman I met told me she liked short hair, but she also wanted a boyfriend, and she felt her odds were better with longer hair, so she has been growing it out longer. Her assumption being right or wrong is not the issue. The point is, she is making a sacrifice, because she would rather have a male partner than not have one.

To sum it up, I respect the decisions of crossdressers to totally stay largely in the closet, and to limit how often, when and where they do it. Also I totally respect and admire trans women who risk everything to live 24/7 as a woman. There are pluses and minuses to each of the above groups decisions. Each of us now has to find what is right for our life.

[Katie01]

Jilian's post made me chuckle. I read it as a light hearted, observational anecdote. Then some ppl made it into a political discussion (does politics need to ruin EVERYTHING?)... Talk about buzz killing the OP. Lighten up. Not saying it isn't an important discussion, just better as ts own thread, instead of raining on somebody's parade.

Amen, btw.

[Lorileah]

All the "I wishes" in the world don't actually consider that men CAN dress "pretty" and still dress as men. Note in the OP the women wore skirts and dresses and heels and sandals...while the men...CHOSE to dress blandly.

There are few things sexier than a man in a sports jacket or a suit and tie...equivalent to dresses and skirts. There are men's shoes that show panache and look very nice. And yet, most men prefer to blend into the wall paper. You can ever wear polos and button ups with a nice jacket...but they choose not to.

I wouldn't be jealous of what others wear. Jealousy is a wasted emotion. I would want to be the guy the women look at and say "Now look at the THAT style. He knows how to turn heads". I'll defend Katey here, but mostly because I wear dresses and skirts everyday and the world hasn't ended. I have this imaginary Facebook in 1935,printed on newsprint of course, delivered once a week to your door, where women wrote "I was at a party the other day...the men got to dress nicely but I had to wear a dress...how boring. I wanted to wear slacks. Why can't we wear slacks?" and then there would be a photo of a cat :idontknow:

[Debra Russell]

hear hear ! and Amen ! -- it would be nice, without any condemnation ..... good post Jillian. Let's all take it for the spirit it was written in...................................Debra

[Sharon B.]

Amen to your Post Jillian, hard to dress the we want to at times

[Alice Torn]

I am jealous of there free choice of clothes, and jealous of how much more women are in demand at work, and how many single women out earn us single men! There may be some male privilege, but, also much female privilege now. This is one time i completely agree with Sara Jessica, too. I also for once, totally agree with Jenniferat home , too. The male in the animal and bird world is the colorful, beautiful one!!!

[Pat]

I lean Katey's way on this but I understand the envy being expressed. You want to be able to crossdress without it being controversial. That's fair, but it's not where we're at. We'll never get there if people just sit around and moan about "fairness." But I understand the desire.

I think the thing that bothers me is when the issue gets cast as "somebody's got something I don't have." Like people are counting the beans on the plate of the person next to them -- "Why do women get to wear pants but we can't wear skirts?" You know what? They had to fight for that. It took brave, aggressive women to push that boundary and it took almost a century to do it. I still remember the fuss at Locke-Ober's restaurant in Boston when a woman went in wearing a pants suit -- this was the late 1960's / early 1970's. They wouldn't allow her in, so she took off the pants! ;) And was it a coincidence that there was a news film crew on hand? No. It was a planned move in a fight to allow women to choose what clothing they'd wear. Many women were physically assaulted, most were not. Many more were demeaned for choosing to wear "men's clothes" and Right Thinking people tried to stop it until it reached a tipping point -- it's rather like crossdressing males these days.

[mechamoose]

Ok.. gloves are off.

I get that some of us live in really repressive places. I get that some of us live in places that threaten our personal safety.

Unless we stand up, we will be told to sit down.

I know I'm privileged to live in a zone of acceptance by being in the Northeast US. At the same time, I have to say that unless we challenge the norm, then others get to define that for us.

I know that it is risky. I know that. I believe we have to push it anyway.

How will it change otherwise?

- MM

[Tina_gm]

You feel this way because of who you are, most guys never experience a feeling of boring old clothes or man's clothes. I can say I have definitely felt the same way, but women often feel envious of guys in as many ways, maybe not the clothes, but especially about how long it takes men to get ready, and the comfort of some of the clothes they wear, to functions and stuff. It does go both ways.

[Sarasometimes]

Jay I understand where you are coming from. I vacationed in the south and it was steamy weather. Even with short and a tee and the women are wearing sleeveless or tank style dresses, with those sleeve-less tops with light airy skirts or super short shorts.

[jemima_bates]

Wow - this got real serious real quick!

Jill - FWIW I fully empathise.

Of course we *could* wear whatever we want, but in many cases, we're just not gonna. There's many reasons for feeling that frustration, from societal, to shyness, to fear, etc. etc.

And of course there are *other* frustrations in people's lives, from monetary to location to yadda yadda yadda.

But - I feel, and share, your pain in this very specific, so-close-you-can-almost-touch-it-but-so-far-away-it-kills kinda way.

Jemima
x

[Sarasometimes]

Well put Jemima, so close!

[laurenp245]

... having a Walter Mitty moment while watching a parade of great outfits.

Oh how I have been there!!! I 3rd this quote! I cannot tell you how many times I have seen ladies (my wife included) who are all dressed up looking fabulous and wish to myself that I had the confidence to cast off what the rest of society deems normal and just take those steps outside my door wearing whatever I wished. While there is some truth to the fact that we certainly can go out dressed as we please (it's not like there is someone just outside our door regulating what we wear), the reality of the situation is that it's just not something that some of us are entirely comfortable with for a multitude of reasons. Maybe in time this will change, who knows? I applaud/envy those who have taken this step, but at the same time I relate 100% with those who think that it's just not the right time just yet.

<3 Lauren

[mechamoose]

panache

It is a uniform, a pretty one, but still a uniform. I could compare a suit I had 30 years ago to one today and the differences would be minimal.

- MM

[Athena_]

Jillian,

I will give a big Amen to your OP. I share your feelings. I often see the fashions of the women in the office and wish I could have the same options, and the same level of normalcy with the options. I have often thought that women have nearly limitless options with fashion. I love to see the finished product of their efforts

I have seen some of the other side too. Many choices can equal hard decisions. My wife will sometimes change her outfit multiple times before finally settling on a choice. All of those options can be hard for the wearers too!

[julie w]

You can go out to functions wearing lovely fem cloths ,I have been two weddings this summer as my male self wearing a business suit , but this year I have also been to dress up dinners as Julie with my transgendered club , it's quite possible to do both ,you just have to build you life to do it

[BillieAnneJean]

I did a blog on "Life is too short to wear boring clothes". It came from hearing women discuss clothing they were looking at in a store. They were examining some items and saying "This would be fun to wear". I have never ever heard any guys say or have fun wearing any guy wear. For guys even getting really dressed up means wearing a strangling tie or tight collar, a long sleeve shirt, a jacket even though we are inside, heavy shoes with thick soles, insulated from everything right to our neck and wrists. The colors for guys are dull enough to make getting really dressed up totally uninspiring and to be avoided at almost all costs. And before we put on the dull uninspiring outerwear, we have to run a sharp blade over our face and neck to scrape off the thickest and hardest hair on our bodies located on the second most tender skin we have. Hey, no wonder why we don't do it unless forced to.

http://billieannejeansblog.apps-1and1.com/

It isn't much but it is all mine.

SUCH FUN!
Billie

[Stephanie47]

I'm with you Jillian. Many times when I am out at the mall or a central business district I see many lovely women wearing lovely outfits. My young granddaughter dresses fashionably, whether in a short dress or long jeans. I see women who are middle aged that are knockouts. I love the colors and styles. Yes, as a man I can do my best to look my best as a man.

Don't pay too much attention to those posters who want to rain on your parade/post. We live in the real world. We are not free to wear and do whatever strikes our fancy. I think any sane person understood anyone has the ability to throw caution to the wind and disregard the perils it may bring. I really wonder if everyone follows the advice they so freely give out.

[Judith96a]

Jillian, you get an Amen from me too.

Yes, in theory, any of us can wear whatever clothes we want but NOT without consequences! In your example the women were wearing skirts / dresses and the men were wearing polo shirts and trousers. Do the swap. In most 'Western' societies a woman wearing a polo shirt and trousers will not run any special risk of ridicule / assault etc. Can the same be said of a man wearing a dress or blouse & skirt? I think not. Now what about the same man not only wearing 'female' clothing but also wearing wig, makeup etc and generally attempting to present as 'female' rather than 'male'? Interesting, isn't it!

[Yinlingyen]

I agree to the inequality.
Women get to wear very light clothing (thin strappy dresses) and be accepted as classy/sexy.
If I as a guy turn up to a restaurant or club in a vest (no matter how well made or how good the quality) and short shorts with sandals, I'd be sure to be asked to please get dressed properly .
Girls in short shorts are deemed acceptable while a guy in it is not. Fair?
Same with sandals. I take great care of my feet. No ugliness there, with regular pedicure, but still many places require proper foot wear for men......

[Sometimes Steffi]

I would also like to give Jillian an amen.

But more importantly, doesn't Jill really look awesome in her 'fro (in her avatar)?

[Katey888]

Perhaps I was having a bad day... :hiding:

And Jillian, please don't take it personally - I may have come across a little reactive, probably for all sorts of reasons not to do with your post so I unreservedly apologise for any offense you may have taken - and yes, your new avatar is very sweet... :D

I've watched the discussion develop a bit over the past couple of days and my first thought is still one that relates to the members here that first of all do venture out in some way, and then to those that have both the need, fortitude and courage to express that need to everyone around them - not always limited to the TS part of the community, but obviously they of anyone eventually have to present as reality has defined them. If more of us were to do it, it would surely become more acceptable? If more of us were to be actively involved with any local trans support groups - in drab or otherwise - surely it must help awareness and representation if only by strength of numbers? I'm not talking about activism as such, I'm just talking about moral support as a minimum for those who perhaps don't have the relative luxury of being able to manage how this condition affects them.

I openly admire those who are prepared to take their presentation aims into their daily lives whether that's a mix of male to female transformation like Isha, or others who mix and stretch the boundaries like MM, Klaire Larnia, Nadine Spirit, Jason+ (and others) - and beyond that those who transition and who have no choice about when they can reserve or submerge their feelings of expression about who they are inside and have to brave those inequalities and unfair aspects of society regardless.

Of course I understand the expectations that society places on us as obedient, conforming sheeple... but if we are not able to push our own boundaries, exercise our own rights of expression as individuals, then who else will address the unfairness of any aspect of a world we want to change...? :thinking:

Maybe I am becoming an activist in my old age...

Katey x

[JaytoJillian]

Katey, no offense taken. I talk/debate/argue for a living, so I enjoy the discourse. My 14 year-old takes after me a great deal in that regard--A fact of which I am quite proud.
Besides, who can get mad a a Brit? That wonderful accent makes everything sound so polite and charming. I appreciate the compliment AND the clarification. No apologies necessary.

I served many years in the U.S. Military, where cross dressing or being transgender could not only cost one their career, it could also result in criminal prosecution. During that time, I deployed to combat zones four times, so one would think that I would, by now, feel free to do as I please and wear what I want, when I want. In some ways I do, but within certain parameters. In those combat zones in which I served, there were "go" and "no-go" areas. "No-go" areas were those that represented great risk, and unless you had enough assets to unleash hell if need be, you simply avoided them. I use the same criteria for determining where I go en femme. I love going out, but I steer clear of the straight clubs. I go where I am most likely to have friends and allies--the LGBT clubs and LGBT neighborhoods.

So, I am out and about to some degree as Jill. I do the best that I can to look presentable--If someone points at me and says "dude in a dress," I want them to have to admit that "the dude looks pretty good."

Cheers,

Jill

[justmetoo]

I agree with both what Katey and Jill are saying. Dressing as we please won't come about by hiding in the closet, but we do have to chose our battles, so to speak. Women didn't get the freedom they have now by not getting out there and fighting for it, and taking plenty of hits in the process. At the same time, it's not easy to flaunt society (or to face our own fears), and I don't blame anyone who doesn't get out there or who maintains whatever "no go" zones they feel they need. And I applaud those who do get out and push boundaries and open doors and make a difference. I get out in public occasionally (just a few times a year), but I'm not out to a lot of people who know (certain family members, co-workers, etc.), and when I do go out I try to stay low key. I don't like to attract much attention en femme OR en homme.

[Kandi Robbins]

Wow, stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest here Jillian. Amen, I say. Sure, we all have the freedom to do many things in society including wearing women's clothes. But no matter what anyone says, there is always at least a little trepidation in the backs of our minds. Even the most seasoned girl. Otherwise, we would not have to take additional safety measures that we might not need to when in male mode. I don't think anyone would deny the possibility of an uncomfortable experience increases when dressed. All we can do is get out there, present ourselves with class and dignity and change minds one at a time. Some day we will get there, we just have to stick together and be who we are!

[bimini1]

For me I don't want to simply cross dress. That would be me, out as my male self from the neck up, no forms in just clothes made for a female. No, I am not arguing to do that. I don't know if this applies to you Jillian, but I am not talking about just cding persay. What I want is not the right to cd, but the right to express my full transgendered self. To me it's two different things.

The old argument women get to wear what they want while men do not ? Well if I showed up in say, some red dress shoes, or red slacks. Or some men's shoes that were purple or flowered. Somebody is going have an issue with that. You know this. Women have more freedom, more options to choose from. That is just the way it is. Yes some of the colors are opening to men, I wear more pinks and turquoise, purple than most in my male self. And in my everyday life as male, I have little desire to wear anything other than mostly traditional male attire and color. And it stresses me out after a while because I want to appear in female form after a while. But when presenting my full TG self it goes way beyond just the clothes and colors. I have no desire to be a male in women's clothing. In that respect I feel I am a transgendered woman.

Now still, notwithstanding, a female who shows up in jeans and a flannel shirt but is obviously female, make up etc is going to fly way better than if I do the same albeit in a dress and clearly male from neck up. You can't say it's not. I once had a co-worker, female, who would once in a while wear a woman's garment that was clearly influenced by a mans suit all the way down to shirt and tie. I could clearly tell a change in her demeanor every time she wore that outfit. She became more domineering, confident and assertive around the office. No one had a problem with it. Let me try something like that and they would have run me out of there. A woman can freely change hair color, wear wigs, extensions and it's all good. Let a man be discovered wearing a toupee and he's open to ridicule and laughter.

Sorry to say that is just a double standard. Anytime a society deems one group superior to the other, then there will a double standard. If a female aspires to do a traditionally male pursuit, I dunno like suit up to be the kicker on a football team. It's celebrated for the most part. Good for her. If a male wants to do a tradionally female pursuit, like play with a Barbie doll, or ballet, it's generally frowned upon. Like something is wrong with him and he needs help to be more masculine. He needs to "man up". Of course it's utter BS.