CD question to TS - RE partners [serious]

[debstar]

I have been reading a lot of threads here and I see many people mention wife's in the mix through GRS. Just purely because I am ignorant can you please help me to understand how wonderful these woman must be and what the process was for you together in transitioning? I am genuinely curious as I am sure others also.

Jems.

[Lorileah]

Caveat: Both of my partners died before I started transitioning but both "knew" about me.

I often say I was the luckiest person because I found two women who liked me for me. I do believe that the last would have been there by my side through the whole thing. One hang up that has been removed now is marriage for people who transition. Prior to this year more than half the states would have made the marriages null because they would be same sex. My opinion is that many transpeople lost spouses or delayed transition because of this (Waving). So, my opinion is, that when you LOVE someone, you don't just love the package it came in. Packages get torn or scuffed with time. The marriages that do last know that. Now having made that point, you also have to consider how the partner views themselves in a relationship, how they view their sexuality. If they see it as being married to another woman and they don't want to be seen as gay, well then splitting up is the right thing. You can still be friends, you can even be roommates but many cannot be married. Not a fault. we here like to say that we accept a lot of things and question why others don't.

There are too many details in every life to make a blanket statement on why some do and some don't. My story is I was upfront and honest with both. My wife even guessed BEFORE I came out to her. Would I have transitioned? I dunno, that was 8 years ago. Would she have accepted it, yes but she may not have stayed married. It wasn't something we discussed. My GF knew BEFORE we physically met and she loved Lori as much or more than the male self. I am confident if we had been married (time didn't give us the option) we would have remained so. But as I said, these were both extraordinary women who saw "me" not the external trappings.

[debstar]

wow Lorileah, I am so sorry for your loss.

It does sound like they were amazing people to accept you for you and you them.

[Suzanne F]

I can only speak about my wife. We are together now and are planning for our life together post SRS hopefully in June. We both know this could change but feel like it will all be ok. It has been a tough complex and wonderful journey together. My wife likes to say that I keep teaching her the meaning of unconditional love.

In our case I believe that we had to untangle ourselves to find that we wanted to be together desperately. I had hidden my true self in order not to lose her. I couldn't trust that she would love the real me. Thank God that I was forced to show my real self. Yes she disapproved and resisted. I had to stay the course and determine what was right for me. Once I did this and was honest, she had to have time to process and adjust to the real me. Funny, but I believe this has allowed her to really be the real her. Guess what? My wife is stronger than she realized. She can handle the world and it's opinion of me and our relationship. She too found that the package wasn't really what is important. I just am so impressed with her courage and strength.

I really wish I could explain what has happened to us in a more clear way. We had to let go mad what we have found is better than before. Yes she misses some male aspects of me. I miss not being able to give her that. However, I believe I am free to give to her in a different and beautiful way now. I am optimistic and look forward to us growing in both individual and joint ways!

Suzanne

[debstar]

Hi Suzanne, it is really nice to hear your story. I also feel that love should be apart from the physical aspects of a persons bodies. True love that is, but I'm a hopeless romantic I guess.

It sounds from what you are saying that it did take some time for her to accept you.

Actually given my original question this may sound strange only that I'm CD and wondering if I might ever find someone who can accept me.

[Cheyenne Skye]

I wish I had been as lucky as Lori and Suzanne. Both of my ex wives knew I cross dressed. The first marriage didn't last very long due to her cheating. She actually felt guilty about it and left. The second was aware of my cross dressing from the second date. She came over to my apartment and walked into my bedroom when the closet door was open. She saw women's clothes and questioned me about them. She assumed they were from the first ex-wife. I admitted they were in fact mine and she seemed to be okay with it. Fast forward 12-13 years and I often pushed more and more to express myself outside the confines of the house. She got more and more adverse to the idea. So I yielded to her wishes. I believe that forced repression was what rang my bell. When I started therapy and she saw I was headed down the path to transition, she said no more. And that was the rather abrupt end to my marriage. And to top it off, she became a spiteful bitch doing everything she could to make my life miserable during the separation and divorce. Once she made it clear there would be no reconciliation, I pulled the pin(R) and started to actively transition. Now I wonder if I will ever find another person who can love me for me regardless of what anatomy I might have.

[Sandra]

I have pmd Jemstart just to make sure she doesn't want just replies from TS's :)

Ok I don't see myself as a wonderful woman I'm just me :) I had an idea that there was more to Nigella than her being a cder, anyways after a spell of hell Nigella went to see a therapist and it all came out how she felt, this is when the journey I guess began properly. We went through this together and each step was discussed a great deal, we shared our concerns, worries and fears with each other. Each step was taken when we both were ready. The day of her op was scary and emotional, I cried all the way home from relief that the surgery was over with and happiness that she was now complete.

I have had people say to me that I'm now a lesbian, err no you don't just become a lesbian and I can assure them that I have never had any lesbian tendencies. I see Nigella as a person and not as a gender, yes she is a woman and always had been just didn't have the right plumbing.

Now, we are just a normal couple going about our everyday business.

[ReineD]

Now having made that point, you also have to consider how the partner views themselves in a relationship, how they view their sexuality. If they see it as being married to another woman and they don't want to be seen as gay, well then splitting up is the right thing.

I'd like to address how a wife might look at the situation.

You say "IF (she sees it as being married to another woman)". So why wouldn't a GG see it as being married to another woman especially if she knows her spouse's inner self. Isn't the spouse a woman who was born with male birth defects and would it not defeat the purpose of transition if the wife persisted in seeing her spouse as a man who had transitioned as opposed to a woman who corrected birth defects. How would a TS feel, knowing that a wife does not see her as a woman (if this is how a hetero wife can choose to stay in the marriage). I'm hoping that GGs do understand their spouses and respect them enough to see them as women. And if so, it makes sense to me they simply are no longer attracted, if they are hetero. It has nothing to do with other people's opinions?

As to not wanting to be seen as gay, I cannot speak for other GGs, but I believe that the days of seeing something wrong with being gay are over with. My lesbian friends are out and proud and I would feel the same way if I were lesbian. I don't know anyone who is closeted or who struggles with coming out. There may have been struggles 30 or even 20 years ago, but not now as far as I can tell, especially with all the inroads the gay community have made in recent decades. Lesbians are no longer shunned or considered weird somehow because they are lesbian, not even at work, not even in my small town.

[Suzanne F]

Reine
I want to address your post about a GGs sexuality and attraction to her TS spouse. It has not been that black and white in my relationship with my wife. I believe she is more open sexually than many women but would still classify herself as heterosexual. However, she has found a way to have a different sexual relationship with me as a woman. Yes I am pre OP and that could change. But I assure you we are two women now who love each other and have found a path to a still very active and loving sexual relationship. Until you are there you just don't know what will reveal itself. In our case we found that we just love each other. I am sure my wife misses me as a male but I also know she finds me attractive as a woman. If you had asked her that before I revealed myself she would have doubted it. I think it is dangerous to make pronouncements about what certain kinds of people will be able to adjust too. Humans are fabulous and complicated and results always vary.
Suzanne

[debstar]

Thanks all for the posts so far, they have been very interesting.

I thought it fair I offer some background on my own situation so you might understand my curiosity.

Middle aged and CD for 10 years on and off. A long past girl friend - through a friend of a friend - heard that I might be Bi and endlessly confronted me about it. Unfortunately at that stage of my life I was in denial / too embarrassed to admit it even to her that I loved and pushed her away. Net result I have been single ever since and that was 15 years ago now.

Now I am a little more mature and accepting of my self I care a little less about what other people think. At the same time I wish to find a partner. This is difficult because at this stage - after all these years - I am still trying to work out who I am.

I worry if CD does end up developing to TG it would make any relationship very complicated, but put another way I am using it as an excuse not to reach out and find some one.

The upshot of all that is I avoid intimate relationships with people. I realize life has it's ups and downs and you have to take risks.

Your stories both good and bad give me hope that some one in this world could accept me for who I am and that I should just get out their and be honest and be my self.

Jems.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I think it is dangerous to make pronouncements about what certain kinds of people will be able to adjust too. Humans are fabulous and complicated and results always vary.
Suzanne

This is a kind of prounouncement as well..

Your experience is outside the norm (historically at least...perhaps the future will be different)
the data is that most women are not interested in their men turning into women ....

and i'd add to that many wives and SO's supported their husbands or tried to prior to realizing that they didn't want to be with a woman...

i only bring this up because the outcome of the "prounouncements are dangerous" idea is that no matter what we say as transitioning husbands and no matter wives say beforehand, you just cant know what will happen...and the numbers are against you staying together..

[Rogina B]

Like Kaitlyn,I believe that most wives won't handle the "rebirth of their spouse" in the long run...Not always,but "usually"..

[ReineD]

Reine
I want to address your post about a GGs sexuality and attraction to her TS spouse. It has not been that black and white in my relationship with my wife. I believe she is more open sexually than many women but would still classify herself as heterosexual. However, she has found a way to have a different sexual relationship with me as a woman. But I assure you we are two women now who love each other and have found a path to a still very active and loving sexual relationship. Until you are there you just don't know what will reveal itself.

I think it's wonderful that you and your spouse are finding a way to make it work. And I agree, there is no way to know how we will end up reacting until we are in the midst of any situation.

I watched the last episode of "I am Cait" a few days ago. Jenny Boylan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Finney_Boylan) was on the show with her spouse, and Jenny (whom I take is an authority on the question) said that about 66% of marriages with a transitioning spouse fail (one third do succeed). It would be interesting to know why there is a 66% failure rate, is it because of the social taboo, or because the wives lose their attraction to their spouses post transition, or a mixture of these reasons, or do some of the husbands discover a latent preference for men and a wife can't live with this, or something else.

I've skyped with a few members here and I also know personally some couples who did stay together after transition. One TS and two wives have told me their relationships are now platonic. Also several people in this section have mentioned in posts that they and their wives sleep in separate bedrooms since transition. One of the wives told me that she does not see her spouse as a GG like other GGs (which I was surprised to hear). All the couples love each other and the bonds are deep despite not having sex together. I am NOT saying that a sexual relationship will end for everyone, just reporting statements from the people I have spoken to. One TS and two wives have also told me they (the TS and the wive's two spouses) are attracted to men. Two couples are OK with this (they acknowledge their shared attraction to men) and it is a subject that is not spoken of for the other couple.

The couples I speak of are among the one third marriages that do survive and I celebrate them for finding ways to make it work. It is truly a testament to their love.



I think it is dangerous to make pronouncements about what certain kinds of people will be able to adjust too. Humans are fabulous and complicated and results always vary.

I was responding to Lori's "IF a wife sees it as being married to another woman" statement, which implies that she may not. I said that I hope wives will see their transitioned spouses as women, and that I can understand why 66% of the wives (according to Jenny Boylan) cannot stay in the marriage since these wives are hetero; they did marry people whom they thought were men. I did not, however, mention that some transitioned spouses do uncover an attraction for men. But, some wives are OK with that since the bonds with their spouses are no longer based on a sexual relationship.

Edit - Speaking for myself and recognizing that I may be all wrong since the situation has not presented itself, it would be much easier for me to be in a devoted, yet platonic relationship with my SO should my SO transition, than having a sexual relationship with her. This is because physical things like breasts and vaginas have thus far turned me off. And if I were to develop a sexual relationship with a man, then I think it may be awkward for all three of us to live together, hence my feeling at this point that our relationship would change ... it would not end, I would continue to be friends with my SO.

[arbon]

My wife stayed with me in a platonic relationship through the last 5 years, basically being roommates. She supported me through transition as much as she could. When I got back from surgery she had decided it was enough and time for me to leave. My transition hurt her, she misses who I was and can't get used to me. Just the way it is. It's kind of hard to get used to being alone and on your own after living with someone for twenty years.

[Kate T]

Jenny Boylanwas on the show with her spouse, and Jenny (whom I take is an authority on the question) said that about 66% of marriages with a transitioning spouse fail (one third do succeed). It would be interesting to know why there is a 66% failure rate, is it because of the social taboo, or because the wives lose their attraction to their spouses post transition, or a mixture of these reasons, or do some of the husbands discover a latent preference for men and a wife can't live with this, or something else.


I'm sorry and I'm really not trying to bang on about this but, and with the greatest respect to Jenny Boylan whom I believe and find to be a fantastic author having read She's not There, my understanding is that she is an English Professor, not a sociologist or statistician. Honestly I have heard the "one third" number bandied about a lot without anyone ever supplying any evidence (your own personal experiences with friends not withstanding Reine but still they are only a very small sample).

In any case my understanding would seem to indicate that current OVERALL divorce rates in the US sit somewhere around 50-55% based on US census data. On this basis we could reasonably safely assume that 50% of those marriages would have ended in divorce anyway thus less than 15% of marriages fail due to a partner transitioning.

Of course the above is also a but of a silly fiddle with numbers but you get the idea of how numbers and statistics can be useful but can also have their problems.

All that being said JS, the obvious thing is for you to work out who you are and what your pathway is and to be open and honest with whomever you may get involved with. If you have to deny and suppress who you feel you are in order to be with them then I don't think that is a fair relationship for either you or your partner.

[Eringirl]

For what it is worth...my ex bolted the day I realized I had to transition. To this day, she does not understand, has NO CLUE, how a woman can stay in such a relationship without being a lesbian. She stated she is not a lesbian, will not be in a "same sex marriage". Not what she signed up for, etc, etc, etc, so she bolted. Now, having said that, I honestly believe that she isn't anti-trans, if I may use that term. If there was someone in her workplace or friend that were to come out as Trans, I believe she would be the first to support them. But she can't do it in her inner world, or "not in my back yard" as she states. So her I am, middle aged, transitioning, single and wondering what the future holds for me WRT to finding a meaningful relationship with another woman......sigh

[Kimberly Kael]

It's certainly easiest for spouses who aren't strictly heterosexual. The Kinsey scale acknowledges that people aren't trivially categorized as straight / gay / bisexual but that we exist on a continuum. I've heard from a lot of partners who stick around through transition that they wouldn't have dismissed a same sex relationship out of hand before they knew that's where they were headed.

... but that's not true for every durable couple, either. My wife has stuck with me despite all the usual misgivings for nearly six years so far post-transition. I'm sure it helps that I haven't opted for GRS, but that doesn't actually make a difference in our social perception. As far as the world around us is concerned we're a lesbian couple and she struggles more with that some days than others. Our relationship remains intimate and we're both finding our way through changes on that front, but very much enjoy sexual expression. Surgery would definitely throw some new challenges in the mix and I can't say with any certainty how she would react.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

me exwife is my best friend..

it took her years to work through her own feelings and during that time i did everything i could to give her space and be emotionally available to her.. i worked very hard at it and we co parented our two teenage daughters who are now both in college..

we are a happy family except we live in two houses and arent married... i am on excellent terms with her husband as well...

that's how it worked out for us...everybody is different... pretty much every single word spoken about another couples "chance to make it" is a waste of words...
this is especially true if you are just starting out and havent got close to something like transition.

[ReineD]

I'm sorry and I'm really not trying to bang on about this but, and with the greatest respect to Jenny Boylan whom I believe and find to be a fantastic author having read She's not There, my understanding is that she is an English Professor, not a sociologist or statistician.

Adina, I cannot take hours to fact-check every statement I read or hear by researching independent studies through the maze that is the internet, with the limited resources that I have (a lack of access to major academic journals). But, I can discern between statements given by people who have devoted a lot of time writing (and presumably researching) a topic, and opinions stated by people who have done no research. I admire Jenny Boylan, I think she is smart and I consider her an expert given her extensive experience. I would be surprised if she threw out that number randomly given her curriculum vitae (http://www.jenniferboylan.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Boylan-c.v.copy_.2010.pdf).

[Sandra]

It's a pity that there isn't more wives of transsexual here, that way you would get a better idea of things, and not have to trawl the internet.

[ReineD]

I agree Sandra. It would be wonderful if we could hear from the wives of transitioned women. But in their absence, we could take a survey of how many of our members stayed married after a transition and if they didn't, do they think their marriages ended because of the transition or would it have ended even if they had not transitioned.

And if members who are contemplating transition want to know what their chances are of continuing to have a close physical relationship with their wives, they could ask the transitioned members who are still married about their experiences to get a sense of what happens to most people.

[Sandra]

That wouldn't work as you need both side of the story, and how do we know that the wife has told the truth to her SO without her posting here.

As for those who are contemplating transition and asking about the close physical relationship, they would get a lot of different answers and probably be more confused than ever.

[Kate T]

Reine I agree that Jenny Boylan is a very smart cookie although I think her talent is telling the stories of individuals and helping us to see and understand them rather than numbers and statistics (at least in what I have read from her).

Please forgive me but when the term "expert" and round numbers like 66% and one third get thrown around my (albeit medically) scientifically trained brain sets off a whole heap of red flags that just says "really, is that really true?" I am not saying it isn't, just that we need to look at our assumptions and see if they are really true and match up with our life experience and the life experience of others. The next thing my occasionally overly analytical brain does is look at what is the conclusion from the information I have. In this case statistics may well show that around 66% of marriages where one partner transitions end in divorce BUT you cannot necessarily conclude that therefore those couples divorced BECAUSE of the transition of one of the partners. Confounding factors come to mind, including that up until very recently for a transitioned individual to change their gender on identity documents they legally HAD to get divorced whether they wished to or not, at least in Australia.

Personally my problem with just talking about these numbers without really looking at them is I think it does a great disservice to both partners and relationships. There can be a socially learned helplessness "oh well, 2/3 of marriages like mine fail so I may as well give up now" and thus the numbers become a self actualisation. I think partners, and TS, deserve better than that. I think they at least deserve the chance to give things a go without society and statistics breathing down their neck telling them they are going to fail.

Now it is also entirely plausible that I am coming at this and interpreting things with a personal agenda. I'm not a fool. My wife and I have talked, felt and struggled through what transitioning means to our marriage. And it is not easy, as I'm sure every member on this forum will attest. But there is no way we are going to let a social statistic determine whether we stay together or not.

So Jemstar, there you go. Yes you can have a true, loving and lasting relationship, but one thing it will require is a bucketload of hard work from both yourself and your potential partner.

Whilst writing the above essay, Reine and Sandra, I agree completely with both your recent posts.

[ReineD]

Please forgive me but when the term "expert" and round numbers like 66% and one third get thrown around my (albeit medically) scientifically trained brain sets off a whole heap of red flags that just says "really, is that really true?" I am not saying it isn't, just that we need to look at our assumptions and see if they are really true and match up with our life experience and the life experience of others.

OK, then I am putting you in charge of doing the independent research! You can look at academic research, you can go to large TG support groups and take surveys there, and/or you could take a survey of people in this forum. Or, you could do like Jennifer Boylan: research as much about it as she no doubt has plus know literally hundreds of people who have transitioned, and base your findings on all of this information combined.

Good luck, and I'd be interested in knowing what you discover! :)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

im a mathematician
the numbers are what they are
of course the odds can be beat...some couples just have a way of making it thru anything, some women are sexually fluid or asexual...

but you are peeing in the wind if you think transition is not a massively disruptive thing to relationship, that most relationships will not change and most marraiges will break up, and that the cause is not the transition....thats what matters

what you are calling socially learned helplessness i call pragmatic reality
its better to know what you are up against then to hope for something that isnt real..

[Kate T]

I think hope gives us a reason to fight for what we believe in, love, peace, acceptance, understanding. Without hope why keep fighting (I mean fighting in a positive emotional sense).

[ReineD]

but you are peeing in the wind if you think transition is not a massively disruptive thing to relationship, that most relationships will not change and most marraiges will break up, and that the cause is not the transition....thats what matters

That's the bottom line, isn't it. Couples in the general population do divorce and the rate is about 50%. But from the observation of what members here have posted over the years, plus the people I know in our support group (it's a large support group), I'd say that when a marriage is faced with transition, there is more than a 50% failure. Jenny Boylan offered a percentage, but since some members here don't want to believe it, I will not debate it since I have not gone out to take a survey myself. :p

As to getting a sense of the percentage of people who are still together and who still have a physical relationship, some couples don't have a physical relationship any more, and some couples do. The ones who offered the information to me, have said they no longer do. If anyone who is contemplating transition is interested, they could post a thread and ask. It only requires a yes or no answer with no additional details or opinions.

[Mimi]

My spouse, Eryn, has been on HRT for several months. We have discussed the various steps involved in transitioning--when to come out at work, what to tell local friends, etc. I realize we are more on the starting end of the path than the final destination, so my situation is different from the wives of those who have fully transitioned. However, I knew before Eryn did that she needed to move beyond dressing and get therapy to determine what was going to be best for her. I encouraged her to explore herself, and I continue to do so. It makes her a more complete and much happier person, and in return, she tries to be a better partner to me, and a better person in general.

I don't consider myself a lesbian, but I plan on staying married--I don't feel that sexuality is defined by specific terms, but that there is more of a spectrum. Also, I don't think that by continuing to be attracted to my spouse, regardless of the physical appearance, will make me a lesbian or mean that I was a lesbian all along. I'm not attracted to other women, but I am attracted to my spouse. Sometimes when we are out, we are perceived as a lesbian couple. That's totally fine with me. We don't go out of our way to promote that conception, but I'm not about to tell anybody they are wrong, because if/when Eryn fully transitions, we will be a same-sex couple. Again, that doesn't mean I'm lesbian, it just means I'm in a same-sex relationship.

[Suzanne F]

Mimi
Thank you so much for your eloquent post. My wife and I are in a very similar position. I understand this is an exceptional outcome, I just want people to know it is possible if not probable. Oh, my wife joined the forum last night as she has decided she wants her voice to be heard. Bev F will be posting soon!
Suzanne

[Kaitlyn Michele]

you are excellent models for making this work as best you can...kudos to you both!

[PaulaQ]

@Mimi - and I mean no offense by this, but it is possible that you are very slightly bisexual, in the sense that you love Eryn as a person, and gender just isn't the deal--killer it is for some straight people. Indeed perhaps Eryn is the ONLY woman on earth you could be attracted to.

However, it is totally possible that you are arrow straight, and simply love her so much that you stay together even if there ends up being no sexual attraction between you. I've seen such marriages work. If so, you are a rare and special person! (Since I already know that you are a rare and special and wonderful woman, I'm of course more inclined to suspect this is the case!)

None of this matters really, but I think many of us aren't always totally cool with our own sexuality - particularly bisexuality is rather efficiently erased in our culture. And this only matters because the marriages I've seen have the best odds of survival are ones where the spouse was, often unbeknownst to all, not really straight - either bisexual, or asexual. (People cast aspersions on asexual folks, and are often VERY cruel about this. There are good reasons people aren't out about this - denying it themselves.)

I very much agree with you that your sexuality is NOT defined by who you are with. This is one of the myths that erases bisexuality, so I appreciate your mentioning it. You are right, you ARE NOT, and NEVER HAVE BEEN a lesbian, Mimi.

Please don't take any of this as an attempt to label you. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter, I only mention these things in the hopes it helps others gain insight into themselves.

As for percentages, my experience in Texas & Oklahoma is the divorce rate is higher than Jenny Boylan suggests. (The general divorce rate is lower than 50% now, BTW.) Of those I know that have survived, often this happens "for the kids," and some of these marriages are terrible. The NCTE survey for 2015 asks about this, so I hope we're able to get better statistics soon. I do know of happy marriages that survive transition and where the couple maintains intimacy even post-op. It can happen. The odds aren't great though - but it is totally dependent on the people involved, and on things about them that are often unknown before transitions rolls in and bulldozes the landscape of the marriage.

Edit: I know why the Jenny Boylan number seemed off to me:
1. Age of transitioner - rejection by spouse increases dramatically with the age of the parties involved.
2. MtF vs. FtM - MtFs are more likely to be rejected.
The overall % isn't very meaningful for much of the audience of this forum because it included young transitioners and men.

[Eringirl]

Thank you Mimi for your thoughtful response and eloquent articulation of your thoughts and your relationship. I agree with your characterization that you are in a same sex marriage and not a lesbian....you are married to the person. Your attraction and relationship is about the person, not the gender. I don't think it means you are bi or a lesbian. You are you, and Eryn is your partner of choice....the person, the sprit, the soul that makes her who she is.

I wish you both much continued happiness.

The other Erin...;)

[Kate T]

Emailing Jenny Boylan she said the number she used was taken from the National Centre For Transgender Equality survey on discrimination. The link is here:

http://transequality.org/issues/national-transgender-discrimination-survey

Now that we've finished screwing around with the OP's question (literally), unfortunately Jemstar the survey really doesn't say much about the difficulties / whether transgender identified individuals find in forming close partner relationships. The survey DOES identify that those who transition between the ages of 18-34 have a MUCH higher relationship SUCCESS rate (average around 65% vs only around 39% for those 35 yrs +). My suspicion is that those individuals go into a relationship with FULL DISCLOSURE to their partner of their gender identity. Good news for you Jemstar as once you sort out what you really want and who you feel you really are, you actually have a higher chance of having a successful long term relationship than most "normal" couples :)

[Rianna Humble]

I have let the discussion on Jenny Boylan's percentages go on too long.

Any further discussion of that will be deleted as will any other attempt to side-track the thread away from answering the OP's question.

Rianna Humble
Moderator, Transsexual Forums, Safe Haven, etc.

[PretzelGirl]

Sorry for jumping in so late, been off-line for the better part of the week.

I have no doubt I am totally blessed. I have a less common route that might be a part of things. I had stuffed my feelings all my life and never really explored what they meant to the point of not having a firm "I am female" thought. When I retired from the Army, I looked at my wife and said "I have feelings...and want to explore them". I told her boundaries were required and I would adhere to them. So she was with me every step of the way, loosening the boundaries as her comfort level allowed. Two years before I was in therapy, she was telling me to go on hormones and have surgery. Well, a little ahead of the game and boxing in what was needed, but it told me I had someone special. After I went full time, I knew we would be viewed as lesbians. I talked with her about it and it was a struggle for her as that wasn't her identity. One day I came home from an event and talked about different things and when I mentioned pansexual, she asked me what it meant. Then she said that was her feelings. So I am glad she can grab something like that as it settled her thoughts.

It is a tough thing. While I believe that educating the general population will gradually increase the acceptance level of society, I think the level of marriages maintained will be harder to budge as it is too personal and impacts the spouse directly on who they are, and we all know that we don't want other people to determine who we are.

[ReineD]

I have let the discussion on Jenny Boylan's percentages go on too long.

Any further discussion of that will be deleted as will any other attempt to side-track the thread away from answering the OP's question.


My full apologies to Jemstar.

Jemstar, I took it you were interested in getting a sense of the common experience when you mentioned "wives in the mix through GRS". I read your post again, and you did ask specifically for accounts of positive experiences. I'm sorry for having derailed the thread by mentioning all sides of it.

[debstar]

Hi, no problems. All very interesting. Does sound like not very much data exists to call in one way or the other.

But yes for personal reasons mentioned in one of my reply I was looking for more personal anecdotes.

[ReineD]

Hi, no problems. All very interesting.

OK, thanks. :)

I also hope it was OK for me to mention the experiences of the people I do know who related them to me (the one TS and the several wives of transitioned TSs). I have no reason to believe these people were telling untruths, they are in fact all still in committed marriages.