We are NOT on the same team

[sarahcsc]

After reading many forum posts about 'teams', 'communities', 'similarities vs differences', etc. I was suddenly reminded of a true story which occurred to me in the past.

I love stories because stories can deliver a message in a neutral, unbiased, and candid fashion.

So here goes:-

************************************************** **********

My brother and I could not have been born any more differently.

I found myself to be the blacksheep of the family because I was meek, short (in height), and sensitive, I wore glasses at a young age when the entire family was blessed with 20/20 vision, I had a rare blood disorder which limited my diet, I had few academic or sporting achievements, and of course, I had gender identity disorder which was only recently diagnosed.

My brother on the hand was the prototypical model of what a "man" should be or look like. He was tall and confident, physically fit, wore no glasses, had a cabinet overflowing with medals and trophies of extraordinary achievements in every category imaginable, and well, he wasn't confused about his gender identity.

I admired him, and at times, I envied him too. This admiration and envy drove me to emulate him which I failed miserably at of course. One of these examples was my attempt at playing basketball, a sport that never really caught my attention, but it was my brother's passion nonetheless. I wanted to be like him, I wanted to be 'better', or maybe I wanted to be 'acknowledged' by him.

My brother was extraordinarily good at the sport and he grew skeptical and concerned when I expressed my interests. He saw many limitations merely by observing my height and body-built, not to mention my clumsy and slow reflexes. However, he did not give up on me and took me along with him to training sessions and even offered me private coaching on weekends. I learned to dribble, to catch a rebound, and to perform the basic lay-ups.

One day, I mustered the necessary courage and asked if I could play with him on the same team. To me, nothing would reaffirm my identity and my worth as much as being able to stand side by side to my brother in the court. He was reluctant initially, but knew he couldn't turn me down because well... we're brothers. Also, I knew how to manipulate him with teary puppy dog eyes.

Needless to say, our first game together was a total disaster and not only did our team lost the match, I also ended up spraining my ankle. The opposing team was just too big and strong.

But I was persistent and stubborn, so I kept insisting that I remain on the same team. My brother felt trapped in that situation because he wanted to win but at the same time knew he couldn't with me on his team. He was also torn inside because he didn't want to upset my feelings. He reluctantly allowed me to continue playing, but I soon discovered that I was messing up the team's teamwork.

Players on the same team would not let me handle the ball, would overcompensate for my mistakes, and would always suggest that I take to the bench, my brother included.

I knew I was sidelined and could no longer enjoy the game. Quietly, I left the game and stopped attending training sessions.

My brother went on to qualify for the school team, later the state team, and was even offered a spot in the national team before my mother stepped in and said "NO!". To us Asians, there is no future in sports.

I on the other hand, tried a range of other sports including soccer, badminton and table tennis, all of which were met with limited success. I eventually settled with books, which made me who I am today. I am still meek and sensitive, I still have GID, but I'm much happier than I was before.

I realized that belonging to the wrong team not only hurt myself, but it also hurt the rest of the team, and especially my brother. Oh... my brother. He was so kind to me, too kind perhaps. I can only imagine the torment he felt seeing me be called to the bench and left sidelined for the rest of the match. I had no place in his team, in basketball, or even in sports! And he knew it... but he didn't know how to let me down gently when all I wanted to be, was to be like him.

My brother is still very into sports today, and I am very much into books. :) We talk occasionally but none of us wanted to bring up our history in basketball. We were happy to just let it go.

************************************************** ************************************************** **


After reflecting on this, I realized that I do not belong in this TS 'tribe' or 'team'. I'm just not born for it.

And like the story above, I know now that being on the wrong team can have be a lose-lose situation and it won't matter how much I force my way into the team, there will always be unintended consequences.

Perhaps some members here would like to remain exclusive and to filter their 'tribe' or 'team' members carefully before allowing membership, but that is to allow them to continue operating at the top of their game. In that case, generalizing and to overemphasize on our 'similarities' may not serve these members well. Just like a football player do not belong in a basketball team even though they're both playing ball sports. :)

I have no wish to be identified as TS either. That label just doesn't fit me. I know I'm not merely a crossdresser either so that team is not my team.

I guess I'll just have to go away and make up my own team. The team of "not-a-transsexual-but-not-a-crossdresser-as-well-but-perhaps-everything-else-in-between". Lol. :D

I think that way, it would be a win-win situation. I don't think there's any advice I can offer the TS tribe, and neither is there anything they can offer me. :)

I think I'm going to be okay.

Love,
S

[natasha]

Interesting analogy. I don't "fit" on many teams either, never have and probably never will.

[Ceera]

But there is no one "Team" or "Tribe" here... It's a very diverse community, covering a very broad spectrum. You may not feel like you are a match for the visible majority here, but that doesn't mean there are no others here that could be useful for you to interact with. For every "Oh my God if I don't get SRS I can't bear to live!", there is a "I just like feeling feminine." There are people here who represent the whole range of the TG spectrum, from those who have already had SRS and legally changed their gender, to those who merely like things associated with the gender they were not designated as at birth, and are questioning their own place in the spectrum.

It's perfectly okay to feel you have a feminine component to your mind, and yet not desire to change your body, or even your sexual orientation.

I struggled with accepting the "Transgender" label for myself, and I still do not accept the Transexual label for myself. At least part of my mind is feminine, but I don't intend to get surgery to get my body to look more feminine. The closest I might go for that is to get my ears pierced, and maybe get hair removal so I don't need to shave when I want to appear female. I don't dislike being male - I don't have GID myself - rather, I like occasionally being female, and expressing a side of myself that is other than my male aspect.

Don't be too hasty to close the door and turn aside. This place has something for pretty much all of us who don't fit the gender binary stereotypes.

[KellyJameson]

If you do not fit on any team or wish to be identified as TS it is very possible that the reason for this is you are a woman.

A woman is a woman is a woman. Nothing more and nothing less. It is simple, basic and elementary.

It becomes meaningless once you are beyond the obsession to understand.

Once you see it you realize how utterly uncomplicated it really is and that we made it unnecessarily complicated.

The best thing a woman can do for herself is to never allow others to define her.

In my opinion it is very important, extremely important actually, to never identify with other transsexuals. This can cause massive confusion.

You will not find yourself in others but only possibly hints of this self. Shadows and echos but no substance. You create that substance by taking what is already there and making it more so.

There is alot of darkness in the T world. If you want to come into your own it is best to leave it behind.

You can always return later when you are whole and complete if you wish to help others like yourself.

You have an amazing intellect. It reminds me of Lea's. The problem is this intellect can keep the woman hidden from your understanding. From being touched, experienced and found with your mind.

The woman was there before the intellect.

It is primal, ancient, earthy and spiritual when compared to the intellect.

She lives in your body and in your heart. Not in your head! (intellect)

[Lorileah]

did someone put you on a team you don't want to be on?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Sarahsc

I know i'm ok and i'm glad you are ok too

Is there some kind of problem?

[Kaz]

Hi Sarah,

I may not see you.. but I am looking... I think I understand... I have not been here for a while because I don't feel that I 'fit'.... but I am who I am and I guess I am part of the 'global team'... and I love being who I am... even though I don't 'fit' any team, tribe whatever...

Hugs,
Kaz

[Donnagirl]

There appears to be a recent fascination with labelling, pigeonholing, classifying or otherwise trying to group together and apportion a future path to follow... I can even detect undertones, albeit only occasionally along the lines of 'I'm doing it right, you're doing it wrong, why dont you follow me?'
Sarah is spot on with her rejection of this and I totally agree...
Would love to see us all revel in our uniqueness rather than sink to Procrustean ideals...

[kimdl93]

Donna's comments above have moved me from my rather cowardly posture to say, I'm with Sarah on this. I genuinely respect and admire the courage, resolve and suffering that many transitioning and post transition (if it ever ends) have dealt with in their lives. But comments over the past few days have left me with the feeling that People like me are neither welcome nor respected in the TS section, because I am neither in transition nor post transition. I am, in a word, inauthentic.

Perhaps the latter is true. Humans cling dearly to their illusions. And I do not want to offend, I don't care for endless and in the end, unresolvable debates. So, I'm ok with moving to a place here or elsewhere where respect is reciprocal.

[flatlander_48]

People gather for any number of reasons: strength, safety, to do things together that any one person could not do by themselves, etc. I think every social movement that has happened on the planet was brought about by people banding together and not acting independently. Basically you rally around those thoughts and attributes that are common and use that as the basis for solidifying the connections between people. That is how we move forward.

Further, when you band together based on what you have in common, it doesn't mean that things that are not in common go away. It is not Either Or. When you come together based on what is common, we get to practice Inclusion and embrace differences. There will ALWAYS be Differences, but, there will also be Commonalities.

DeeAnn

[Kaz]

Dee Ann that is good rhetoric and I agree... but how do we then handle people 'on the edge' of a community? Those of us who do not quite fit a specific grouping? Are we somehow immaterial, irrelvant, to be demonised?

[Rianna Humble]

But there is no one "Team" or "Tribe" here... It's a very diverse community, covering a very broad spectrum.

Ceera, if you notice the title of this sub-forum you will see it is the Transsexual forum and is for discussing items that are transsexual specific. In that context the "team" Sarah was referring to is the "team" of transsexuals who are transitioning either Female to Male or Male to Female. She also indicated why she does not feel she fits in as a cross-dresser.

[Kaz]

Hi Rianna,

I think you may have missed the point behind Ceera's post...? Which I thought captured the OP's views rather well... the issue here is about categorisation... are you certain about Sarah (OP)'s reference point? I maybe read it differently from you... for which I 'humbly' apologise...

Hugs and kisses
Kaz

[Badtranny]

Well Rianna's right. (Jeez Ri, what the hell happened to us? We've been on the same side a little too much lately ;-))

Anyhoo, this is indeed the TS board and Sarah knew exactly what she was doing.

So, since I'm the one who recently popularized the "tribe" term, I will abandon my normal shy disposition and join the discussion, with a question;

Why shouldn't those of us who are transitioning have a place of our own? You don't know this, but life is not easy for a transitioner. Coming out to the world and burning down your closet is a hell of a thing, and if you think it sucks to be mis-gendered in a restaurant, try it during a business lunch with colleagues and clients, it's a real joy.

What is so awful about having a tiny little spot where we are all full time or on the path to full time, or at the very least, have banished secrets and 'no fly zones' from our lives?

[Zooey]

But there is no one "Team" or "Tribe" here... It's a very diverse community, covering a very broad spectrum. You may not feel like you are a match for the visible majority here, but that doesn't mean there are no others here that could be useful for you to interact with.

<snip>

Don't be too hasty to close the door and turn aside. This place has something for pretty much all of us who don't fit the gender binary stereotypes.

Not to pick on you, but this is a good example of the "context" issues I was talking about in another thread. Everything you're saying here makes perfect sense in the context of "Crossdressers.com, the website". These discussions have been specifically about the TS forum though, and while there are a wide variety of personality types and individuals who post here, we're specifically discussing TRANSSEXUAL issues here (as per the sub-forum guide sticky).

I sincerely look forward to the creation of the "Openly gender-fluid/middle-pather and not fetishy" forum. I only-slightly-less-sincerely also look forward to the ensuing discussions about whether or not the closeted fetishistic dressers who start debating the nature of the words "closet" and "fetish" should be participating there. :p

[STACY B]

I wasn't very good at Sports ether, I really don't think your size nor your lack of anything Physical has anything much to do with the fact you weren't as interested as you thought you were,,lol,,

We all at one time tried and tried to fit in somewhere, And some shined and some didn't, And that's why we are at this Wonderful Exclusive Party here Right Now, Do we all fit the same Mold? No but we all came to the Party, We didn't host it, So we don't have to go round talking to everyone like we threw the Party.
We are Free to pick and choose who we Mingle with and if we Speak and Move and Hit an Miss through the Crowd till we find the ones we want to Spend our time with.

So feel free to Mingle all you want and I will even buy you a Drink that doesn't mean were getting a Room Tonight,,,lol,,,

[Kaitlyn Michele]

to me i have no issue with gender queer people being here to discuss their issues...i think some of them are going to realize later that they are transitioning anyway....

i don't like analogies because they are usually terrible...sarah's analogy is terrible

... a better analogy would be a football player showing up at a the baseball game, and demanding to play quarterback because they don't fit in with the hockey players...

they all play different sports, and conversations about baseball games, pitchers, hitters and strategy is what baseball players do...
same for football except its touchdowns, field goals and quarterbacks etc....
they are totally different sports, with totally different issues and strategies.

so here in the baseball players forum which is a subforum of sports forum why would we really want strategy advice from a football player...
especially from a football player that likes to redefine the game of baseball for all of us baseball players??

football players and baseball players are different... they can both like sports, and enjoy their games....

there is no reason they can't share stories and commiserate together on all things, even their respective sports...

and fwiw, i don't beleive in tribes... i beleive in identity.... and every time somebody tries to co opt my identity, i am going to speak....

and fwiw x2... i think its horrible to shun transsexuals that can't seem to transition or wont... i think its horrible to not acknowledge the womanhood of a struggling ts woman(mtf)
i think its just as horrible to try to convince them they are not women (in context of mtf)...and i think its sad that people who are ts try to assume our identity..
forgive me for feeling salty about the blatant frauds that have been exposed and salty about people that literally do not understand transsexualism and try to pontificate here, they deserve everything they get..

[Eringirl]

I was somewhat reticent about joining in on this one, but for those that know me...I can't keep my mouth shut...so I figure, what the hell....

This is a huge forum, with a large number of sub forums, the idea being people will find a sub forum that resonates with them. One doesn't have to contribute in every sub forum or try to fit into every sub forum. I, for one, have changed sub forums. I began, over a year ago, mostly in the cross dressers sub forums, as I felt I had the most to gain and contribute there. However, over a few months, I realized the TS forum was more suitable for my needs and was a better place for me to spend time. This does not invalidate all those that contribute on the CD forum, there are a lot of wonderful people there who are getting and giving the support needed. So, now I feel that I don't have much value to provide, so I don't go there much anymore, it is just what works for me.

The analogy for me is my work place. A huge organization. I am on the exec team - in legal. As such, I get to see what other departments are doing. But I don't for a second think that I am an expert in finance or marketing/advertising. Sure, many times I wander down to those "sub forums" to ask a question, or gain clarity, but I never, ever tell them how to do their job. I am not in their world. The lens through which they view their "lives" is waaay different than mine. And they don't tell me how to do mine, for the same reasons. So we coexist quite happily, helping out where we can, but knowing where the boundaries are. Together, we move the organization forward and have great relationships.

For those that are not transitioning, they are not in my world. I have no issues with those not transitioning to "wander down the hall" to this sub forum. I am happy to see them here, and I am happy to answer questions, provide perspective, etc. as they try to gain a better understanding of themselves. But don't try to tell me you understand my world if you are not in it. Going full-time is tough. Transitioning is tough. Just like you can't imagine what is it like to drive an 18 wheel rig in a traffic jam if you are in a Smart car. Different. Not right or wrong. Different. And until you have driven that rig, you can't possibly imagine what it is like.

Just my two cents worth. No offence meant. I am sure I'll cause a "dust up", but that's okay. I enjoy good debate and discussion....

[LeaP]

Sara, I have mixed feelings about your OP. If you have truly concluded you are not transsexual, good for you!

Your comments on belonging, however, present a bit of a muddle. On one hand, you seem to resent, dislike (pick your word) not feeling welcome. On the other, much of what you talk about stresses your need and desire to belong somewhere ... meaning you're also validating the concept of affiliation itself. Granted, that's not exactly the same as welcome, but much of what you're feeling flows from the internal experience of affiliation (or lack thereof).

Affiliation is a funny thing. You can find rejection of trans community notions in many of my posts. At the same time, I do feel kinship with trans women. I personally think it's simply gender affiliation and that the opportunity to experience it bi-directionally with other than trans women is limited (pre-transition, anyway). There is, of course, a lot of transition commonality. But it still doesn't add up to a community, tribe, or any such. "Tribe" is fun with semantics - don't take that too far.

It just occurred to me, in fact, what a hilarious idea of a bunch of trans women acceding to a leader is. :lol:

[Kate T]

Sorry Sara but your OP was a little confusing and the analogy didn't link well.

The underlying sentiment I suspect of the OP was that sometimes, often with good reason but other times not, this particular forum can very much seem like the group of "in girls" at school, the trendy kids. And sometimes, just sometimes, when someone new comes to the school and tries to be our friend and understand our world and our lives, we parry them away with a tone of disdain and a feeling of "you'll never be quite like us".

Why can't we have our little club?? You're right Melissa, there should be somewhere you can be completely safe, no barriers no "editing", no interference. But it was my understanding that that is what Safe Haven is for? Or perhaps I am wrong?

Sure, occasionally someone comes onto the TS forum and says something that clearly shows they have either no or a limited understanding of what we are talking about. Excluding them is not helpful, we need to try and help them understand, to show them the knowledge and experience that can help them to realise why what they are saying is not really right. And again, every so often, we need to think about what someone new may be saying because maybe, just maybe, they can help us to understand and gain a new insight and compassion for ourselves and for others.

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

A bit reticent to jump in but it is posts and responses like this which confuse the heck out of me. I am about as far right of the CD line as you can go without transitioning which includes now working full time as a woman (yup . . . my wife and I discussed it last week and it is what truly makes me happy). I still present guy from time to time but it is beginning to feel like cross dressing. The odd thing is I have no desire to alter my body (surgical or chemical) . . . it is not even on the radar. I love my guy physiology and to be honest I can still pull off an acceptable female look albeit a bit of a power lifter look. Do I get misgendered at work (yup) do people see a woman when I am shoulder to shoulder on public transit? Not likely. However it makes no difference to me because at those times I am a woman. I am not talking about how I am dressed, my purse, my shoes, make-up or whatnot but an internalized feeling that there is no guy there . . . just girl . . . I really don't know how to explain it.

So . . . do I dain to post here and upset the apple cart by discussing things about myself which TS folk may not wish to discuss or do I post on the CD forum? Many of the issues I face each day are akin to yours (work, social, family). For example I have taken steps now to reclassify my gender as "female" in the military context making it easier to work full time.

So a bit confused . . . do you want us here or not . . . simple question :)

Cheers

Isha

[LeaP]

...

So . . . do I dain to post here and upset the apple cart by discussing things about myself which TS folk may not wish to discuss or do I post on the CD forum? Many of the issues I face each day are akin to yours (work, social, family). For example I have taken steps now to reclassify my gender as "female" in the military context making it easier to work full time.

So a bit confused . . . do you want us here or not . . . simple question :)

Isha, yes. The issue isn't WHO posts here, it's WHAT they post on transsexual topics and lives. To the degree your experience (e.g., being out or whatever) is relevant, post away. My best advice is to be mindful of the difference between drawing useful parallels versus conclusions of sameness. One that frosts me is CDs who compare being out to their spouses with transsexuals' issues at home in the face of loss of sexual function, taking hormones and permanent changes including surgeries.

[Eringirl]

Hi Isha: What Leah said. it is very much the "what", not the "who". For example, to the extent that you are full time at work, you have insights. To the extent of having HRT, etc, not so much, as you self admit, and that is fine. You ask questions, look to gain knowledge, perfect. I think that is more the point. I very much enjoy your posts and interacting with you.

[Suzanne F]

Isha
Please know that you have earned the right to post anywhere you like. You certainly are as out as possible in the world interacting as a woman. Many can learn much from you. I know you would offer no advice on HRT since you have not gone down that road. This is a simple common sense issue. Those that have not or will not do something should not post about it. Ask questions all you like. I am so proud to call you my friend. We have certainly came a long way in our 2 plus years on this journey together!
Suzanne

[kimdl93]

Ok, so part of me is struggling with a micro issue....who and what should be posted here. And then on the macro level, I reach a much more substantive decision. After nearly three years, I decided last night that I needed to come out to my board of directors. I did so in words last night at an informal gathering and physically presented myself as a woman to my vice chair this morning.

Will there be ramifications to this long deliberated revelation....of course. On the other hand, I am uniquely qualified for the job and over the past three years, I have the results to prove it. So, now we shall see if my judgement proved correct.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Wow Kim!!

Super wow!!!

I'm really excited to hear this news and i know how hard you've deliberated.

[kimdl93]

Yeah, about 35 months of plodding consideration. Well...you know exactly what I mean when I say that it ceased to be a question of if and became a matter of when and how, a long time ago.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

35 months??? !!! my plodding internal dialog was 35 years!!! LOL

[kimdl93]

Oh, that dialogue...in my case it took or take something like 50 years.

[stefan37]

Congratulations. GD is relentless and at some point it will reach it's own level. As it has in both yours and Isha's life.

[kimdl93]

Gravity is indeed relentless.

[becky77]

Good for you Kim, now what? Lol.

Who should post here? Anyone that is able to join the conversation and can learn or add something, or just engage in an interesting dialogue.

What should one post here is trickier, it's more like 'what not to post here'.
Don't be authoritative on what you don't know and take time to consider what is being said, rather than just jumping in with the same old "You're being elitist" stuff, people say that because they haven't taken the time to listen properly.


That doesn't apply to you Kim, you're always welcome :)

[kimdl93]

Thanks, Bex. Now what? Hmmm, maybe I will start singing along with Celine. Bonnie Raitt remains my preference, however.

[Rianna Humble]

Ok, so part of me is struggling with a micro issue....who and what should be posted here.

Neither of those questions is an issue. Read the forum header and Nigella's guide to the Transsexual Forum, the WHO and the WHAT are very clear.

WHO: All members

WHAT: Topics are restricted to Transsexual specific items and for Transsexuals to share their experiences.