is it really a good thing to create multiple identities?

[mikeyp]

I've lurked here a lot and tend to see some individuals here describe their selves as having different "modes", mostly "male mode" and "female mode". It seems though that the male side is associated with "evil" and "uncomfortable" for some.

I firmly believe that identities are moreso created than "innate", so my goal is to strive for a sense of oneness with myself no matter how I'm dressed. If you associate your "male side" with negativity, of course you're going to dread having to present male. The reality is that for some of us, we do have to present male sometimes, but how we react to this should be totally under our control!

Again, this doesn't apply to everyone here, but I'd love to hear some feedback from some of the aforementioned folks.

[Laurana]

I associate both my male and female sides as equal. They are both part of the same coin.

[irene9999]

I see myself as the same person whether dressed as male or female, the difference being that when I'm dressed as female I can indulge in more feminine things

[Robin414]

Good topic Mikeyp, for me I have to conciously 'switch' to acting like a guy when I need to, mostly at work or when dealing with construction contractors. I tend to frown and try for a Billy Idol 'snarl' so I can 'pass' as a guy for lack of a better word...I think I'm an 'odd duck' though...I consider myself a tween...more than CD but not TG (yet at least) 😕

[mikeyp]

For me, personally, dressing IS how I get to express my feminine side. I can't really lie to myself and say I have other feminine interests than to look pretty. I like video games, beer, keeping the toilet seat up, hate chick flicks, "girl talk", etc, etc. I think that lots of males have a "softer" side that needs to be expressed, and they find ways to express that. For some of us here though, that is expressed through dressing!

I believe to a certain extent that most people you meet are suppressing a certain side of themselves which causes them disdain. Again, for some of us though, suppressing our dressing is so taboo in society that we find ourselves fighting the fear every day.

[kimdl93]

Modes ...as I see them are simply a way of describing ones attire....male vs female vs something in between. They aren't identities. Some may put on affectations of one gender or another doe ding on how they are dressed, but I suspect that most...if they are emotionally sound...don't imagine they are a different person because of the clothes they wear.

Speaking only for myself, I don't shift gears, adopt personas or otherwise contrive to be anyone other than who I am, regardless of how I'm dresses.

[Infused]

I think it's more about feeling comfortable or normal for many people. Right now I'm just trying to explore and realize the feminine side of myself. Which I believe to be a part of me as a whole and not so much a different person or identity. I still have no female name but I think the name/identity is more about putting a label on that part or yourself. I do feel different dressed, state of mind maybe, and I'm able to do things and express myself in ways I can't or just won't as male. On another note, I have a real name, nickname(which some people have know me for years thinking its my real name), I use anonymous names on the internet all the time, and I have another part of me which I have named(hard to explain but significant to me personally). People behave and act as different "identities" everyday, depending on the given circumstances. All parts of the same whole IMO.

[flatlander_48]

m:

Fortunately for me, what you mentioned has not been the case in my situation. If I can spectulate, it sounds like the people you're thinking about have a fair amount of gender dysphoria. They have to put effort into being male and they find it a challenge. And, since they need to put specific effort into being male, it might be viewed as another mode or person. By contrast, the female side is probably MUCH easier to get into and probably doesn't feel like you're being someone different.

The negative part may come from something during childhood. It could be from being told that you weren't a "good" male or that you were a weak male or that you did something wrong because you are male.

Anyway, it would seem that both things would have to happen in order to create the circumstances you offered.

DeeAnn

[Jazzy Jaz]

I agree with much of what Infused and flatlander had to say. I am bi gendered so my gender balance doesnt move around or shift, rather it is fixed and steady. For someone who is gender fluid however, there gender balance does often shift and so some of them can literally be internally male one day and internally female the next day. This can mean that although they are one person, they can have two unique ways of experiencing life depending on the gender they most strongly identify with at any given time. For many of them its not always one or the other either, sometimes its 80/20, 70/30, 60/40, 50/50 etc. For someone who is ts who hasnt transitioned, my understanding (correct me if Im wrong) is that thier male identity doesnt truly identify who they are at all. It is basically an inherited lie that everyone else believes and so the individual may struggle with thier true identity not meeting everyone elses expectations and not being accepted. Therefore, they probably feel resentful being stuck with this untrue outer identity, as well as being stuck in the wrong vehicle to experience thier true identity. In that case, who could blame them for being less than excited to have to be in boy mode.

[DanaR]

I see myself as the same person whether dressed as male or female, the difference being that when I'm dressed as female I can indulge in more feminine things
This is me as well.

[sometimes_miss]

MIkey, for some, it's the only way they can deal with it. Pretty much all men in western societies are brought up to believe that being feminine in ANY way is the absolute worst thing a man can be. Second is being weak. So, dressing and acting as a female, and being weak and letting ourselves 'indulge' in something so terribly awful, is completely unacceptable in every way and completely incompatible with what we must be to get the respect of our families, friends, co-workers and the rest of society. So, lots of people create a separate persona to assign the female stuff to. That way they can tell themselves that it's not really themselves who is doing all the girly stuff, it's not themselves who wants to date and have sex with guys. It's someone else. Only time and enlightenment will help us change.

[Kate Simmons]

Having accepted and amalgamated all of my feelings, I'm comfortable in either "mode". :)

[Katey888]

I think Kim's caught the crux of it for me... If I use the expression 'mode' it just means mode of presentation since what seems to satisfy my inner self is a full transform, so in the eyes of the muggles I'd have two distinct modes: boy-me, girl-me. I have no desire or need to pursue a mixed-mode, androgynous or other look. It has nothing to do with my self identity other than as a method of expressing something in me that is at odds with my physical birth gender - I don't feel that either side is good or bad, better or worse actually. I'd hesitate a guess at the folk who do feel so strongly about it are expressing a frustration with either their own circumstances that constrain a free choice of when or how to dress, and/or a much higher degree of true gender identity dysphoria that would likely place them more towards the TS part of our world.

I've been thinking a lot about why and how I can be someone who is quite comfortable 99% of the time in drab, but still needs those periods when I need to flip to a fully female expression - I still believe that it comes down to something that underlies everyone's persona and is drawn deeply from the 'self'. Those of us who are not TS display a more complex model than TS, I think - it's why it's harder to understand than the misaligned binary or cisgender concepts. Why would anyone need to 'flip' between modes of presentation? What possible satisfaction could be drawn from being either or and how would you choose which? That's probably a longer discussion than here, but I now believe that presentation for us is simply a way of expressing that we do encompass a more tangible feminine side than most cis-males and it's how we satisfy the need to project it to a simplistic, binary understanding world.

Phew! Another coffee I think... :)

Katey x

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Mikeyp, I'm the same person, Sometimes nice & pretty other times not so much.:hugs:

[AnnieMac]

Hmmmm. That word gets to me a bit I think -"weak" . . ."the weaker sex" I've always thought this is why women can wear men's clothes with no problems. And men can't wear women's clothes. So in those terms, women exalt themselves when crossdressed, and men diminish themselves crossdressing, which is frowned on as men make themselves weaker. This seems to be changing, although at a snails pace, as women have certainly become stronger, especially in the workplace.

Now it occurs to me as I write this, just as there is some internal racism within the African American community, where some with lighter skins have been known to discriminate those of darker complexions, I wonder if GGs also feel this way about women who are more "girly-girl" than they are. Are girly-girls thought less of because they are "weaker" than more middle of the road women.

Lastly, just how it is, women DO look naturally "cuter" in men's clothes than we do in women's, mostly because of our body types. But that may change as folks get more used to seeing men dressed more"creatively". -Annie's theory for the day.

[Suzie Petersen]

What Katey said! .... hmmm .. what did Katey say?? :-)

I understand some feel differently and like to mix up the gender presentation. The "male in a dress" presentation in various forms.
For me that does not work at all. I like the 2 destinct genders and their presentation, but it has to be one or the other, not a mix or blend.

With each gender there is a suitable set of presentations as for bodylanguage, gestures, stance etc etc, and also a behavior pattern, word choice and conversational topic set.

What does it for me, is the adaption or emulation of that complete female role pattern with all the described little details which all, in my mind, spell "female" or "feminine".

I have been at social T gatherings where some would be dressed to the nines, but otherwise behave as males, talk about football and walk like a quarterback. That does not work, if you ask me.

So aside from Male mode / Female mode to a degree just being quick descriptions to get the forum reader to see the situation, for some of us it also describes a much deeper adapted role in the situation.

I dont understand why I would feel that way!! I was neven confortable "playing other roles", never good at theater in school or role plays for management trainings etc. I feel very ackward in such situations. But, when all dressed up, it is the most natural thing for me to drop right into the typical female presentation! Why is that?

As for AnnieMac's question: "Are girly girls thought of as weaker by other women?" I can tell you that at least my wife just cant stand overly girly girls!
I think my wife is the most beautiful woman in the world, but she doesnt think much of herself. So there might be a touch of jealousy there.
One of the big problems she had with my dressing was that she felt I would adapt a too girly persona, and since she dont like women who are like that, I ended up stirring those very negative feelings in her. Not good at all.
I have speculated that it was the other way around perhaps, that it was a chicken and egg thing, that I caused her to not like girly presentations not even in women, but even as a kid and teenager, she would hang out with the boys and not care for the girly girl group at all, so ...

So for me, the Girl Mode is a description of a completely different persona who is allowed to act on her own and to have a set of interests and opinions that might be different than my male side. Some overlap ofcourse, but unique and independent of the male side.

But no, it doesnt make the slightest bit of sense to me, none at all.

-Suzie

[raeleen]

Wow, Katey! What you said really resonates for me. I've been thinking about this lots, and especially upon taking on a girl name, wondered whether it was shifting into a space of establishing another identity. Really for me it's much more just about the presentation of my female side versus anything else. Presenting as a female does let me express something that is part of me and when I have the desire to dress it makes me happy. Also, when I dress I need to fully present as girl. mixed doesn't do it for me either. It feels incomplete. I wonder though if this is part of my own socialization that a half-male/female appearance is not acceptable. More things to think about.....

Of course I think it also ultimately depends on the person, right? We are all outside of the box of what society defines as 'normal' gender expression already and our world operates primarily in binary systems where if you're not one, you must be the other. Having a spectrum to fall upon is more natural for us, but so hard for people to nail down and classify, and when they don't know how to categorize you, they are uncomfortable.

Really interesting thread!

[Ceera]

I'm gender fluid, switching back and forth between gender presentations as my mood suits me. I don't associate my male aspect with "evil" or "uncomfortable" at all. I don't have gender dysphoria. I'm fine with what my biological gender is. But I also recognize that my mind has both aspects - masculine and feminine - and that I have a definite need to express myself as both.

For me, keeping a clear difference between my male and female aspects is an important part of presenting well to others. When I want to be seen as a woman, I want to do the best I can to be perceived as female. Speaking in a deep voice, needing a shave, or using a male name and mannerisms would be as out of place when I am Ceera as a Shakespearian actor whipping out a cell phone and making a call in the middle of a performance. It completely disrupts the illusion I am striving to achieve.

For some cross dressers, they are okay with being 'a dude in a dress'. And that's fine, for them. Heck, most of the really pretty drag queens that I have met don't bother to use a feminine voice. But that's just not right for me. So I've tried to learn how to make my voice sound believably feminine, and have succeeded to the extent that I can place a phone call as Ceera and get addressed as 'Ma'am' before stating my name or gender to the person receiving the call. I've tried to learn makeup skills and virtually never go out of the house dressed en-femme but not in makeup. And I've developed a definite female persona as Ceera Murakami. That identity is as much a part of being Ceera as my wig or my breast forms. I know my presentation isn't perfect, and that many people will realize I wasn't born female. But when I am Ceera, I want them to accept that I am female now. I think I achieve that. Being 'in persona' as Ceera helps give me confidence and a comfortable, self-assured attitude that people pick up on.

When I present as female, I definitely feel a 'change' in my behaviors. Some of it is carefully planned for, to avoid male mannerisms and behave in a more feminine manner. But it goes beyond that. Some of my 'girly self' is clearly acting on behaviors that I repressed while living solely as a male, before I accepted my feminine aspect. Other things just seem to gravitate in certain directions, with a different balance than when I am presenting as a male. Ceera tends to order different choices at a bar than my male side would order. She goes out to nightclubs and to dance clubs and to music venues on her own, and has a good time. She's much more likely to get out on the dance floor than my male side would be, even if she has no one to dance with. She's more open to encounters with either gender. She's more outgoing and sociable. Ceera's more open to interacting socially with males than my male side is. She's just as happy to dance or chat with anyone. Ask Ceera if she's a girl, and she'll say yes. Ask her if she was born female, or ask her if she's male, and she'll freely admit to being transgender, and state that she's female now, but that she isn't always female.

As a male, I'm more reserved and less sociable. My male side doesn't usually go out to nightclubs or music venues on his own, though he might on a date or with friends. He likes to dance, but only with a partner. He's friendly to guys, and will dance with them or chat with them openly, but he's much more likely to seek a female companion for dancing or social interaction.

[Cheryl T]

For me this is definitely not a battle of the "evil" male side and the "good" female side.
I am me, but feel more at home, more comfortable, more expressive and more "natural" when expressing my feminine aspects. It's not that I don't do it while dressed drab, it's more that others get to see my inner feelings when en femme.

[Stephanie47]

For me it has nothing to do with negativity. I love my male side. He has a lot going for him. I catch hell from my wife sometimes if I walk down the street (150 feet) to the collective mailbox on the block when I am wearing my favorite pair of well worn (30+ years old) jeans, holey tee shirt, and slippers. I go sometimes too many days without shaving.

On others days Stephanie comes out of hiding. There is actually less Stephanie time because I am not as stressed out about various experiences in life. I am a retiree and now do not have to deal with stresses of employment or holding a well paying job. As a retiree with a very secure decent retirement income with minimal expenses and lots of assets, I have no financial worries. Stephanie came out many times when I was experiencing PTSD resultant of military service.

Stephanie comes out to have a great time by herself and not be a protector. She loves to do "traditional" women's work a la 1950's and 1960's attire. She loves to bake and prepare meals in a dress, hosiery and heels, and all the proper undergarments. And, she also loves doing the mundane housework.

I guess I've developed to the point where Stephanie and her twin are so accustom to each other that they complement each other. So, some times he is a scruffy male, and, sometimes she is a mature woman.

[Tracii G]

Why is there always a need to try and figure out the reason why you like to crossdress?
Everybody is different so there is no one right answer.
For me I am the same person inside but one day I may dress the boy part and one day the girl part or a mixture of both.
Seems like some feel they have to find a deep seated reason for everything to justify to others why they crossdress.

[Eryn]

When I first started I wanted to keep my identities separate, as I was paranoid about discovery. I created a name far different from my male name and took pains that my male appearance not show any feminine aspects.

As I've progressed, I've relaxed this considerably. I realized that I only have one personality, but one that yearned to practice female modes of expression. My male self now incorporates much of my female self and the two are merging into the best of both. It's to the point where I often get ma'amed even when I think I'm in male mode.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Perhaps for bisexuals it's easier, as we're already familiar with blurring the lines around what society calls normal and we're probably/possibly less concerned about the gender impression we give, ie we don't feel insecure about our masculinity so don't have to do the whole alpha-male thing so much. For me there are those I tell and those I don't, depending on how conservative they are, but I'll bet some of the conservatives have had their doubts about me!

[Marcelle]

Hi Mikey,

I think for some who water here this concept of male/female is just that. Specifically, they will dress female sometimes for a myriad of reasons (e.g., sexual gratification, feels good, fun) but will never loose sight of the fact they are male. Hence there is no true female identity only the male irrespective of how they are dressed. For others the feeling goes a bit deeper and it is plausible (note folks I said plausible not definite) that they suffer from mild GID which is enough to make one feel out of sorts when dressing to the target gender (e.g., female) and then moving back to the birth gender (e.g., male). I have read countless threads about how the person feels emotional let down, sad, anxious and whatnot which implies a feeling of wanting to express the female side. Don't get me wrong they are fully cognizant of their male identity and most likely embrace it but there is something out of sorts which they miss when not dressed female. In this case I have never seen anyone identify the male side in a negative/evil way but more a sense of longing for a return to the female identity to make them feel centered/balanced.

For others though, the birth gender identity (e.g., male) is completely out of sorts to the target gender (e.g., female). However, the male identity is not seen so much as evil but foreign and not wanted. As such various steps are taken to shed oneself of that identity and assume the target gender. GID is not something you can be in control of irrespective of how mild it is, you can only work through it to the end. For some it is a balance (male sometimes / female other times or perhaps a blending). For others it is a complete immersion into the target gender. In either case it is a hard battle to fight so while people may seem out of control, it is really just them coming to terms and making it work IMHO.

Cheers

Isha

[Jazzy Jaz]

Thanks Isha, I relate a fair amount to your first paragragh! As a bi gendered individual I do experience mild gd. Although I am quite comfortable being male, I often am envious of women not just because of what they get to wear, but wishing that i could experience a female body with natural mostly hairless skin, natural beautiful long hair, breasts, a natural female voice, and to experience female sex. I dont desire transition. Rather, being bi gendered i feel a strong need to be and feel both but because i was born into a male body i only get to fully experience half of what i need. This can leave me feeling frustrated at times. Shapeshifting is the option that i wish for but unless something incredible happens i am not able to do this. If i transitioned then i would still have mild gd only reversed and i would feel incomplete without a male body etc etc.

[Claire Cook]

Cheryl and Eryn really have expressed how I feel. Time was when I had "his" clothes and "her clothes, and when dressed I'd try to adopt the mannerisms, the voice, the girlishness. Now they are my clothes. I now I try to be me no matter what I am wearing, and I feel less conflicted. (I just have to remember which rest room to use...)

[CarlaWestin]

I'm generally a guy in guy mode predominately. What the heck, I'm really good at it and my frontal emotions emulate in male form. Then there's the times to just relinquish the hunter gatherer protector role and luxuriate in a warm pink fog. I guess there's really three personalities. Work guy mode, not at work guy mode and not at work guy not guy mode. You know, Carla time.

[pamela7]

With each gender there is a suitable set of presentations as for bodylanguage, gestures, stance etc etc, and also a behavior pattern, word choice and conversational topic set.

What does it for me, is the adaption or emulation of that complete female role pattern with all the described little details which all, in my mind, spell "female" or "feminine".

I have been at social T gatherings where some would be dressed to the nines, but otherwise behave as males, talk about football and walk like a quarterback. That does not work, if you ask me.

-Suzie

"What Katie Said" also. And: when i learned French I had to do it with French people, not English ones practising. I feel the same with crossdressing. I spend time with a female-only friend or group and I go into a mode of being that is very feminine - naturally. But with other crossdressers I'm like with men working at being women, and it doesn't work for me, I mean it's okay, it's good company with other guys and nothing wrong in that, but its not the same as being with a woman or a group of women where I can then flow femininely. I don't need the wig nor make-up to do that, but it's nice for a special occasion.

Responding directly to the OP, this is not a multiple personality, just a different program running on my neural network. :-)

[Suzie Petersen]

Pamela: when i learned French I had to do it with French people, not English ones practising. I feel the same with crossdressing. I spend time with a female-only friend or group and I go into a mode of being that is very feminine - naturally. But with other crossdressers I'm like with men working at being women, and it doesn't work for me, I mean it's okay, it's good company with other guys and nothing wrong in that, but its not the same as being with a woman or a group of women where I can then flow femininely.

That is a very good point, and that makes a difference to me too. Dont get me wrong, I have had some very good CD friends and had some great times with them at social gatherings, conferences etc. Some present well, some not so much, but that didnt matter so much as those situations felt more like a fancy dressup party.

But there have been other times where I felt I was in the wrong place. CD'ers everywhere, but like you said, "men working at being women".

I specifically remember 2 situations, gatherings of T people with a mix of CD and TS including several TS women who were full time and fully transitioned. After one of those times I realized that I was much more comfortable hanging out with the TS group in the kitchen, dressed in jeans and a t-shirt and chatting about everyday topics, than with the CD group in the livingroom all dolled up in fancy dresses and talking about nail polish and panties.
I think it equates to your comment about being in a group of women. The focus was not on being dressed up as women, it was just a natural situation, but because these women (TS) understood precisely who I was, there was no pretending or fear of what they might think etc. Much more relaxed.

- Suzie

[Kaze_]

The whole double identity weirds me out if I must be honest.

I'm just me.

However...

Life's a game and everyone plays a character, I just like to play a female one every now and then too.

[Scarlett Viktoria]

Well, I feel like as a crossdresser if we didn't want our femme side to be a seperate personality we wouldn't have come up with our female names. I originally told my wife I wasn't interested in a female name but as I thought about it it helped keep male me and Scarlett me seperate.

[Krisi]

Obviously, "Krisi" is one identity and "Homer" (not my real name either) is another identity. So along with my real name, that makes three "identities". Yet, except for the names and the clothes, I am the same person just with different identities.

A friend of mine put himself through college and law school playing music. He had a stage name, a pretty silly one. When it came time to get his license to practice law, he had to answer the question "Have you ever been known by any other name?" He had to put down that silly stage name.