HRT and starting age?

[debstar]

Hi all.

I have seen a lot of posts here and information on the Internet about the effects of HRT on the male body.

The general advice is that starting younger will produce the best results and that the 'gains' reduce the older you are. While different people will react differently even in the same age group.

Posters here on the topic do not make a point of stating start age. Myself being late thirties would these drugs have any significant effect?

Thanks

[prene]

For me I have a therapist.
Yes it works better if u start younger but there are other medical concerns.
See a Endo and see the best way to start if u do.

It is confusing, see a specialist

[Megan Thomas]

Genetics play a big part in how much HRT will affect the individual. I started when older than yourself and have seen significant changes. As already advised, see an endocrinologist for specialist advice.

[debstar]

Sorry I think I phrased my question the wrong way. It would have been better perhaps to ask if the results, irrispective of age, made you more content.

[PretzelGirl]

Jemstar, I would go at it as a crap shoot. Mentally, we are all in different places. There are a lot of affirming stories where going on HRT was calming. There was one posted here recently where it didn't hit the mark. You will see the same thing physically as age is a factor, but I have seen some strong results on ladies my age. Genetics is a big unknown really. So you can't predict it. Some things work on most and others may be more variable. Consider everything you read on results as broad input and an idea of what may be and then decide what is right for you.

[debstar]

Thanks Sue... I had not really thought my question out before I asked. But I suppose if you need to change you need to change. Perhaps the end results are only disappointing if you go in to it with unrealisticly high expectations... having said that I am talking out of my ***.

[I Am Paula]

I started at 54. (I know, ancient). I'm really pleased. Maybe HRT didn't turn me into Charlize Theron, but it has done wonders mentally. I'd go so far as say saved my life. At any age, if you NEED to transition (and you will know) then HRT is magic.

[LeaP]

You can think of effects in 3 three categories (MTF frame of reference): Feminization, Demasculinization and Anti-Androgenic action, and Side Effects.

The second first. Nothing will change your skeletal structure. Prominent brow? Huge jaw? Narrow hips? You'll still have all of them. Your voice won't change. You will lose muscle bulk and strength. You may reverse or stop hair loss. Your libido will likely disappear, or nearly so (some may regard this as a side effect, others as a benefit). Your genitals will likely shrink over time. You may become permanently sterile. IF you actually are a good candidate for HRT, you will almost certainly perceive a calming effect from reducing testosterone. If not, you'll climb the walls.

Direct feminization effects include breast growth, body hair loss thinning/loss and body hair slower growth, thinning and softening of the skin, and reduced skin oiliness (and possibly increased dry skin problems). In my experience, psychological changes from estrogen happens over a period of years and is a combination of subtle effects on your thinking and emotions. Emotional change itself, though, is perceivable by most people early on and more prominently.

Anti-androgens are the major agent of demasculinization, at least in the early stages of HRT, and estrogen (primarily) is the major agent for feminization. Both have some of the other's effects, however. Taking anti-androgens may allow some feminization by allowing your natural levels of estrogen to act, and take sufficient estrogen can suppress testosterone. It is critical that you do not take a significant dosage of anti-androgens alone, as it is dangerous to deprive your body of adequate levels of sex hormones.

There are a LOT of potential side effects from taking any of the anti-androgens and from taking cross-sex hormones (estrogen), especially at HRT levels. Google them for a scary, complete list. The most cited ones include liver toxicity, dizziness and dehydration, elevated clotting risk, elevated cancer risk (particularly prolactinoma), and hyperkalemia. Again, libido change may or may not be perceived as a side effect.

The direct answer to your question is complicated. Starting earlier vs. later may make no difference whatsoever - all things equal. But things rarely are. The cumulative effect depends not so much on age, in my opinion, as the starting point from the standpoint of the effects of testosterone. (It also depends on what you call "early.") If you are a short male without particularly masculine features and you're 70 years old, you just won the genetic lottery and will likely view HRT as a smashing success. Conversely, if you already look like a neanderthal at 25, you are SOL. Most males will experience progressive coarsening of features through life, hence the frequent comments about starting age with HRT.

I haven't seen any evidence that genetically-determined effects like breast growth vary all that much by age. But if the same growth happens on a typical 50 year-old male vs. a typical 22 year-old male, the perceived difference will be quite marked. How feminization is *perceived* is a factor of BOTH feminization and demasculinization. And because demasculinization has its limits, I think it becomes the dominant factor in the perception of HRT (physical) success.

All that said, the psychological and emotional effects of HRT are hugely important to me. If I had had no chance of physical change whatsoever, I would have started regardless.

[Diana L]

I started at 63. I'm 67 now. The physical changes have been slight. The mental change has been huge. Hrt literally saved my life.

[dreamer_2.0]

Calling it a crap shoot seems accurate.

I started at 32; almost 34 now. Physical changes have been minimal at best; frustratingly so. Psychological changes are more apparent, they're fairly positive too, though still quite slight and even waning recently given the lacklustre physical changes.

I'm fortunate in that I'm not built like a Neanderthal, though this hasn't proven to be beneficial yet.

Some call HRT magic. I'm curious what show they're watching.

[I Am Paula]

When you are standing on a ledge, and HRT calls you back in, safe and sound, that's magic.

[dreamer_2.0]

The point is, it's different for everyone regardless of age and genetics. There are some people on the forum who started older and have had fabulous results. Or, in my case, somewhat younger with a small, slender frame but virtually no changes. It's a crap shoot.

Having said that, there does appear to be some consistency with regards to psychological changes. HRT has helped many step back from "the ledge", as I Am Paula said, and this is indeed magical. It just seems like HRT has been an exciting show worthy of Vegas for some, whereas with others it's nothin more than a minor card trick an uncle would do for children and probably goof up on.

HRT isn't the be all and end all of transition; as I'm learning with the grace of an inebriated sloth. It's one aspect and age should not deter someone from starting because it may not actually matter.

Now if we all started HRT around puberty? Different story.

[PaulaQ]

I was 50 when I started. I am almost unrecognizable now. You are not too old to transition. I WISH I'd done it at your age.

There is a tendency on this forum to be pessimistic about HRT. It is a game changer. Unfortunately, there are issues it can't fix - if you are 6' 7" tall, have highly masculine bony facial structures, HRT can't fix these things. If you are generally insensitive to estrogen, its effects are limited.

Yeah, its a hell of a lot more effective if you start before puberty, but only a handful of us get to do that.

You'll be fine, sweetie. It isn't too late for you.

You know when it is too late? When you are dead.

[Michelle789]

HRT does a number of things, but it also has it's limitations.

1. Conversion of fat to muscle - varies from individual to individual

2. Re-distribution of fat on face and body - varies from individual to individual, and limited by existing bone structure

3. Softening of skin - varies from individual to individual. On average, the later you start, the coarser your skin is to begin with, and the longer it will take, if ever, to completely soften your skin.

4. Growing breasts - varies from individual to individual. In general, expect your breasts to be one cup size smaller than your mom's, after 2-3 years HRT.

5. Emotional and mental changes. Although this is still a variable, in general most of us report huge changes. Some changes may be immediate, while others may take years to manifest. We often feel calmer and more at peace with ourselves. I used to feel a certain sense of disgust over my body, like my body just felt really really gross. After a few weeks on HRT, that feeling disappeared and has never come back.

Changes in the way we think. Feeling more emotional. Crying more. Changes in our interests or tastes.

6. Loss of sex drive. This is actually a variable. I have heard cases of people who still really, really enjoy sex, and others who have absolutely no interest in sex at all. In my case, I have a pretty typical female sex drive, and it is driven largely by my mood and circumstances at the moment.

7. May or may not reduce, thin out, or remove body hair. This varies from person to person, and may not occur until a year or so on HRT. It may never occur for some of us.


What HRT can't change

1. Our height - sorry there is absolutely nothing we can do about this

2. Our bone structure. There is nothing we can do about our hands or feet. This is the very reason behind many FFS procedures. FFS is the only way to feminize our bone structures, and even then there are limitations as to how far one can go. Also, FFS is incredibly expensive and is not covered by insurance, and likely will never be covered by insurance. I believe a number of factors are behind this.

a) Insurance really, really doesn't want to pay for anything. If big insurance companies had their way, they would pay for absolutely nothing. Good luck convincing them that FFS is not cosmetic, but a life-saving necessity for many transwomen. Not only that, but in a society that judges women by their looks, even cis-women often need plastic surgery to look younger and prettier. And not looking young and pretty can have mental and emotional consequences on any woman. Our looks can affect our ability to be hired or get a promotion just as much as our health can be. A non-passable transwoman or unattractive woman may face difficulties in finding jobs over their looks, just as a severe diabetic may not be able to work because of complications from diabetes. Yet insurance (grudgingly) pays for diabetic medical coverage, allowing the diabetic to function, yet won't pay for surgery that makes woman look more attractive and transwoman to actually pass as women.

b) Society itself is to blame. Society is built on separating people into winners and losers. It generally likes to keep the "losers" down. Society sees absolutely no incentive to have every woman (including trans) be 100% passable, 100% young, and 100% pretty. Society is structured to have non-passable transwomen, old women, and unattractive women. Society is dependent on having a lower class, a prison population, and a homeless population. Society is (sickly) built on the idea of using lesser desirable people as pawns or slaves for the benefit of the privileged few. Society has no incentive to make us all into Cindy Crawford or Megan Fox lookalikes.

3. Our voices

4. Remove facial hair. This is why we go for electrolysis or laser hair removal. Like FFS, not everyone can afford this. And the same reasons why insurance will never cover electrolysis or laser apply.

The masculinization process increases with age. Starting HRT stops any further masculinization from occurring, but cannot reverse it. This is why starting at a younger age, on averages, results in better HRT than starting at an older age. The older we get, the more manly we look.

Genetic factors like underlying bone structure or body's response to hormones plays a huge role, and is the reason why a 25 year old may get poor results and a 55 year old may get fantastic results.

Also, no matter what your age, if you want the best results, don't drink, smoke or use drugs. Eat healthy and exercise. Get adequate sleep every night. Although this varies from person to person, 8 hours (ok, 7 to 9) is a good estimate of how much sleep you need every night.

[debstar]

I want to thank you all for the time you have put in responding. It is very informative for me. Of course I will seek professional advice as well.

[Badtranny]

Also, no matter what your age, if you want the best results, don't drink, smoke or use drugs. Eat healthy and exercise. Get adequate sleep every night. Although this varies from person to person, 8 hours (ok, 7 to 9) is a good estimate of how much sleep you need every night.

Holy crap!

I drink a lot, am pretty much always down to party, and pretty much never get enough sleep. Bad Tranny indeed.

[Rianna Humble]

Get adequate sleep every night. Although this varies from person to person, 8 hours (ok, 7 to 9) is a good estimate of how much sleep you need every night.

How do you get that much sleep? :eek: On a good night, I'm lucky to get 5 to 6.

Going back to the OP, I started age around the time I was born :heehee:

[Angela Campbell]

I started hrt at about 55 years old. Good results.

[PretzelGirl]

I am with Rianna on the sleep. Normal work nights I am in bed at 10, maybe 11, and up at 3:40. I can't remember when I last got a regular 7 hours of sleep. The Army ruined me there I guess.

On drinking, I have seen a rare mention that it is easier to get drunk. I don't recall the reasoning on that. I am not sure I have ever heard anyone mention a doctor telling them to stop drinking unless they had specific medical issues. It isn't a leap to assume that any additional alcohol or medicines have to be processed by the liver. So yes, drinking adds to the liver "wear and tear", but is it really any more than a person not on HRT?

[Jennifer-GWN]

Hormones... Seems the earlier the better. I started mid life have had for me good results which I'm happy with so far. Ymmv rules but something that hasn't been mentioned here yet is the protocol. Personally I think protocol prescribed has a large bearing on your results. Not sure if there is any correlation between protocol and age. I do know for me... Patches were a big no go, pills had some results, injections turned everything upside down and things kicked into high gear. Add to that the much debated projesterone.

As for drinking, I'm a wine snob; self admitted. However I do know that I need to keep my consumption in check as it has a noticible impact on my fat retention. Going on hormones only increased this situation. So wine, sadly, limited to rare special occasions and an occasional gin and tonic / gin and ginger / crown and ginger.

I watch my liver enzymes very closely.

As sue pointed out.... Sleep deprived regularly. My Fitbit reminds me daily how poor a nights sleep I get these days whereas I used to be able to sleep through Armageddon.

Cheers... Jennifer

[Heidi Stevens]

Hey Jemstar, I began six months ago just after turning 59. Immediate results were in my mood and my skin softening. Six months out, I'm just now seeing breast development. I've kept my dosage at the same level since month one as my wife and I are happy with my results and I can still present as male. She's the only reason I'm not increasing my dosage and proceeding with my transition. So dosage wise, I'm in a holding pattern, but I'm still seeing changes. Let's see after another six months.