Does this make me a bad a TS

[Marcelle]

I had a discussion with my wife this evening and while it was over probably a glass too many of wine it does resonate with me. My wife is cognizant of the fact that transition is always on the horizon and she asks me about his often . . . specifically . . . Are you going to become a woman? I explained to her that I may have been born XY but I know in my heart I am XX but physically correcting that through surgery or HRT is not even on the radar. I like my body as it is. Sure when I work out at the gym I am a bit bigger than your average girl but then again I have seen women with arms who put mine to shame. As far as my nether regions it is just anatomy to me and doesn't define who I am.

I am out as far as I can go both in my private and professional life ( I work full time as a woman). It is not about the clothes or the look but an internalized feeling that I am finally congruent with whom I was meant to be . . . a woman. Now I fully realize that my body does not match my identity but I do not feel out of sorts with my anatomy or physiology nor do I wish to correct my birth sex on documentation because to me the concept of gender being assigned at birth based on what is between your legs is archaic. I know I am a woman and I don't need to prove it by changing my body or my documentation. So, the question is . . . does this make me a bad TS?

Cheers

Isha

[Kelly DeWinter]

Without trying to start a "Label" war, but as you stated "transition is always on the horizon" and it appears as if you identify as TS "Transexual", you may not be a 'bad TS" you may just be closer to transition then you are ready to admit.

[Robin414]

Hi Isha, I'll make it short since I tread lightly in this part of the forest...no, IMHO it does NOT make you a 'bad' TS!

[Zooey]

So, the question is . . . does this make me a bad TS?

Who cares? I don't know what a good TS is, much less a bad one (regardless of what Misty may call herself). You should do whatever is necessary to be the best Isha you can be.

I take hormones because I didn't like my mental state, I didn't like my body, and I especially didn't like what my body did to my mental state. If you're happy with yours, that's great as far as I'm concerned.

[Lorileah]

hey...I am a "bad" TS so if want to be in the club, we meet on the 5th Thursday of the month.

The question is...do you use a bubble or a broom?

Referring to an old axiom...paraphrased from Father Flanagan at Boy's Town. "There are no bad TS's"

[Jennifer-GWN]

Isha;

You ARE in transition {surprise}...This may be a bold statement on my part but you are in my eyes. Perhaps not the more normative path driven by both the feeling of being a woman along with a complete and utter distain for the associated dangly bits. I like you am in a similar place regarding my body and in particular my dangly bits. True there were aspects of my body that did give me grief but more from the aspect that at the heart of my mind I'm see and feel a very feminine woman. I've done what whatever I could to transform to align. Lost a considerable amount of weight, grew out my hair, and yes started hormones to not only bring calmness to to mind but also assist in shaping my body.

There is no question in my mind I'm a woman bits or no bits and who knows what the future holds with respect to those parts for me. Perhaps the annology is my bits are no different from having an appendix. At some point they might get removed. Likely that will be driven from either a sexual need or desire or as I grow and mature as a woman I suddenly develop the distain others feel. This it to be determined.

So from a dysphoria perspective my mind and sole has transitioned and my body specifically is a work in progress and what I hear myself saying to myself is no different than from many other women... Need to workout, need to watch my calories, conscience of how I look (even though we shouldn't be driven by ideals), etc.

Sometime we get there and we don't even realize we're already there, in part because we weren't actually trying it just happened. So my question to you is are you there? Hormones are not a prerequisite just one of the many tools that help us get to the place we (everyone is different) need to get to.

Easy tough question for a late Saturday evening or something to ponder early on a Sunday morning as I know you're an early riser ��.

Cheers Isha, you're going to be just fine.

Jennifer

[ReineD]

Hi Isha, I won't attempt a response because one, I don't feel qualified to judge and two, people have different definitions of "transsexual", so in one definition you'd be a good TS, and in another, not transsexual (which I think implies a physical alteration?) but maybe gender-nonconforming or gender-variant instead. But, I do have some questions:

You've mentioned many times that people who have seen you while presenting as Isha have taken you as a man. Does this bother you? Also, if you were single, do you think you might consider HRT initially and perhaps more later?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

short answer NO

long answer.......life is long Isha... you are doing alot of talking about what you will or won't do...how long did it take for you to feel uncomfortable until full time at work?

Perhaps you do love your body...perhaps you always will...my own money says give it some time and you will be saying something different...

i spent lots and lots of time and mental energy trying to negotiate with what i was and what i was going to do about it...lots of us did...
that's what i'm watching you do right now..

i think you are doing great

but I also think you should try to live more in the moment...do not talk about what you are or arent. do not talk about whether you are good or bad (frankly a bit of childish idea that hints at a more profound issue), not talk about what you will or wont do and just see if you can make it through one month just like you are .... and then another month...etc..

...when life feels kind of boring but wonderful, you will know you are where you need to be...its pretty obvious you are not there right now.

[Michelle789]

Bad TS: There is no such thing!!!

Isha, you are on your own path to living an authentic life. You are doing whatever it takes to make you comfortable in your own skin. You are transitioning in some way, because you are making a major life change. Even if you live part-time and switch between both male and female, and even if you never take HRT or get surgeries, you are still transitioning. Even if you choose to live full-time as a woman and not take HRT, surgeries, or legal documentation change, you are transitioning. You are being who you really are.

I have seen you come a long way from when I first met you two years ago. I am really proud of you that you are coming out at work and to the world, and being who you really are. There is no right or wrong way to be a TS. There is no right or wrong way to transition. The only thing that is the right thing to do is to live authentically and do whatever it takes to feel comfortable in your own skin.

Congratulations Isha!!! Welcome to a life of authenticity!!!

[Donnagirl]

No Isha, not a bad TS but definitely a reluctant TS. Looking back over your detailed posts, you have set up so many hard barriers then slowly but surely eroded them away. This is just another temporary barrier. I think, a little similarly to me, there is still a significant but fading resistance to the fact that despite who we were, what we've done and the lives we've led, we are girls...

I give it a year or so and you'll be posting about the benifits of HRT, and impending surgeries. A cold, hard look, an intensive introspective and you'll agree. A year ago my staff talked about the inevitability of transition for me. I thought it laughable. I can control this! I'm in charge. I'm happy with things just the way they are... #Epicfail!

Work won't allow a one day boy, one day girl variation, but I'm past that... I'm going girl at work as soon as I can sort the documentation out. I'll need to swap over name and gender marker completely before work will accomodate. That's the path I'm on now... The determining factor is now finance, nothing else.

My doctor has already raised the topic of surgery. We had dinner the other night with a surgeon friend of hers, another trans woman and a few other TS. Some interesting stories about heel dragging, the surgeon herself underwent SRS at 72! She admits she so regretted denying it for so long but the though that she might die and be buried a boy was the final impetus. Don't want that to be my future..

I recently read an article by another Aussie soldier who transitioned a few months ago at 42. Her comments struck a chord... She said that she had enjoyed her life as a male, achieved much as a male but that time was over. Now she wants to enjoy her life as a woman, achieve as a woman and was now living as she was truely meant to be...

So, yes it's hard, very hard to figuratively throw away all that our male lives have been... But...

Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated...

Donna xx xx xx

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

Thanks much for your responses thus far. It was one of those introspective nights for me as I continue forward so any thoughts are welcomed. I am going to write a few things which I do not want others to take the wrong way. Anything I write is particular to me and in no way an endorsement of what any other person here is feeling or has felt. :)

To clarify, I am fully cognizant that things change with time . . . heck look at where I was two years ago spouting the "I just like the clothes but I am all mucho macho manly man below" mantra compared to today. However, right now I do not feel a deep desire nor even a glimmer of desire to alter my physical form because it is only the vessel that holds me. I like my form, my strength, my reflexes, my speed and the thing between my legs is only an appendage nothing more, nothing less (okay it has purpose but that is not what this is about). Holding on to these things is not IMHO reluctance to shed the guy in myself because these things only define my physical sex not my gender identity which is a woman . . . irrespective of what I look like naked. :)

I just wanted to gauge the sentiment of the forum as to whether there will be a backlash of "Hey you can say you are TS because you are not" as I am cognizant that this is a very touchy subject for some.


. . . do not talk about whether you are good or bad (frankly a bit of childish idea that hints at a more profound issue . . .

HI Kaitlyn,

Just to clarify when I said "bad" I did not mean it in the way of "bad person vs good person" I meant it in the way of "not truly a TS from the point of view of others here". There tends to be a benchmark on this site where one can and cannot say they are TS before the heavens open and the sky falls upon them . . . I don't want to be seen as that person.


Hi Isha, I won't attempt a response because one, I don't feel qualified to judge and two, people have different definitions of "transsexual", so in one definition you'd be a good TS, and in another, not transsexual (which I think implies a physical alteration?) but maybe gender-nonconforming or gender-variant instead. But, I do have some questions:

You've mentioned many times that people who have seen you while presenting as Isha have taken you as a man. Does this bother you? Also, if you were single, do you think you might consider HRT initially and perhaps more later?

Hi Reine,

The definition was at the crux of my question and perhaps I did not articulate it as well as I could have (darn red wine :)). As I stated above, I don't see myself as gender non-conforming or gender variant as that would imply I still feel male and I am just bucking the gender stereotypes by dressing as a woman. In reality, there is no "guy" I just don't feel him. When I am out in the world as Marcelle, I have an internal sense of joy, authenticity and calm which has nothing to do with the clothes. On those rare occasions I do dress male (now about 10 percent of the time) I feel false, almost as if I am cross dressing male. All I know is that when I am Marcelle I am who I was meant to be and when I am Marcel, he is a part I am playing.

Do I get upset when people take me as a man? The harsh reality is one look at me and it is glaringly obvious I am a biological male so it happens all the time. Someone would have to be blind to think I was a biological woman. Short answer . . . so long as they are not overtly rude or hostile it doesn't bother me because I know who I am inside.

If I were single would I start HRT? No. This has nothing to do with being held back by my relationship with my wife. We both agreed that should it ever come to that, it is a decision I am free to make if it is going to help me cope and we would whether that storm as best we could. Would our relationship survive intact? We don't know but it is not the reason why I have refused (it has been offered by the military medical system) HRT.

Cheers

Isha

[Claire Cook]

Hi Isha,

Thanks again for another of your candid posts. You've struck a nerve with me and I'm sure others. I think it's been said several times in this forum that if you wonder if you are TS, you probably aren't. For a long time I've known that I am female at heart, but dealt with that by trying to merge that with my male self. (As noted in your previous thread, I generally present as male.) When I am Out and About, I'm generally treated as the woman that I feel that I am. Yet I have no inclination to start HRT in the usual sense, and certainly am not contemplating SRS. My wife is happy with my male and female sides -- err, with me. Trangendered? Of course. TS? For me, The "guy" is still there.

I dunno -- is there a grey area? (and yes, "Good" vs. "Bad" is irrelevant to this discussion, IMHO.)

[Kelley]

Isha
Thanks for posting this. It is cumforting to know that there are others that feel exactly as I do. I will never say never but for now I feel the same about my body and my gender as you do.

Kelley

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Isha... what benchmark? cmon, give people a break.. you are taking something about you and making it about somebody else...sorry but that statement kind of rubbed me the wrong way..
what you are going through has nothing to do with the strawman debate that gets foisted on transsexuals all the time..what you are talking about is how transsexuals that transition and talk about it get blamed for other people's issues all the time
if you feel judged i'm sorry you feel that way but it will serve you no good purpose to insert this idea into your life.

based on your response i have to say that it just doubles down on the OP... you started going to work as Marcelle, what, a couple months ago?? and now you go to work everyday as Marcelle,
When you were going part time, i read what you said...you said alot of things... now you are not saying the same things....

why is it different now?

so many transsexuals "fight", and fight in all different ways.... you don't have to justify your actions... you don't have to change your body if you don't want... you don't have to change your legal status... you can be transsexual and not transition..
you can be happy and fulfilled every day in the future just like today with no HRT and all that testosterone,...but forgive me if i don't beleive in fairy tales...

or you might even realize in a month or two that spending almost all of your time dressed as female is not for you...you've left all your options open (which i think is a really good thing)

Life is LONG. Joy of authenticity has a short half life... gender euphoria does not last
what you are doing right now is going to exhaust you , its going to get old, just like going to work part time did..
In one year, If you are doing the same thing now as you are today i'll send you a bottle of that red wine

[Marcelle]

Kaitlyn,

Sorry but you did exactly what I asked people not to do . . . take my comments personally. I don't feel judged and to be honest not really concerned what others think. I am just very cognizant that some people take being TS very seriously and very personal and I don't want to disrespect that by blundering on saying "Hey I'm here as well". To be clear I never said anywhere in my OP that I am blaming TS folk here for any of my issues . . . I was looking for clarity. If I seem like I am spouting the same old diatribe . . . my bad and I'll make sure not say what hasn't been said in the future.

If you took offence I am sorry that was not my intent. Do I live in a fairy tale land? Perhaps I do, perhaps I just a delusional dude who really doesn't know what she/he wants in life . . . or . . . perhaps, just perhaps I understand myself a bit better than you think. In any event . . . I'll take your offer on the bottle of red wine . . . if after a year I have progressed beyond this or reversed . . . I'll send you a bottle of red wine :)

Isha

[Kaitlyn Michele]

deal ...although i'd take a fresh six pack of a good canadian beer...our canadian beer is well traveled here in new jersey...

and i have to say this... you say "perhaps i understand myself better than you think"...its possible...but the evidence of your last couple months of posts is not exactly exhibit A for proving that..
that's my overall point of view


btw...as an aside...check out the media section ...there is a thread on a Janae Marie Kroc .... there are two interesting articles including the first one where she rails on the community for trying to box her in and the second where she is fired for being transsexual and it talks about her transition.... and talk about a body..OMG>..

[Marcelle]

Would you prefer standard Molson Canadian or good micro brew beer?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

ohh micro brew for sure...:daydreaming:

[ReineD]

I don't see myself as gender non-conforming or gender variant as that would imply I still feel male and I am just bucking the gender stereotypes by dressing as a woman. In reality, there is no "guy" I just don't feel him.

Hi Isha

Does gender-nonconforming indicate an inner sense of gender ID that does not conform to the binary gender system (either both genders at the same time, in-between, or no gender), or does it describe a permanent way of living that, irrespective of one's gender ID (male, female, or something else) does not conform to the gender binary, which in most people means having the body in sync with one's gender identity, either male or female.

Do you have gender dysphoria, if gender dysphoria means being unhappy with your birth-sex. In other words, is it possible to be transsexual and not have gender dysphoria?

I ask these questions, because it looks to me as if you are doing something new here. I'm not saying this is good or bad or that you feel any less female than transitioners, but unless I am mistaken, MtF transsexuals have traditionally sought to bring their physical appearance in sync with their female gender identities (although it appears that SRS is less and less a requirement with the passage of time, since a lot of people feel that no one sees the genitals anyway). But again unless I am mistaken, the bulk of TSs have sought to alter their bodies with electrolysis & HRT at the very least and with FFS if they still felt mistaken as men in the general populace. They do this because they don't see themselves as outside of the gender binary if gender binary means having the body in sync with the gender ID, male or female.

You are managing to completely separate your male body from your internal sense of self as a woman and this is why it appears as if you are pioneering a way to be TS, which up until now I believe was considered gender-binary-conforming (SRS optional?).

Also, I have a question about the Canadian military. How flexible are they? Do their regulations permit an indefinite going back and forth between male and female presentation while retaining the birth name and gender marker (for records), or do they have a regulation that in order to avoid confusion, MtFs or FtMs must present as the gender opposite than birth sex full time plus have their name and gender markers changed to match the presentation and if so, did you realize this when you began talking to them. In other words, do they recognize gender-flexibility or do they only recognize binary presentation. Last, does changing your name and gender marker in the military also change it in Canada's vital statistics (birth certificate, passport, income tax forms, driver's license), etc).

I want to say that I do think you are courageous. It mustn't be easy, presenting to the world in a manner that causes others to continuously take you to be a gender you do not feel you are.

[RobinCA]

Not at all dear. Youhave to be comfortable with the girl you are inside, not outside. You do whatever feels right, and dont ever think youre not good. You are who you are, and you are a beautiful lady.

[Badtranny]

So, the question is . . . does this make me a bad TS?

Well there is only ONE badtranny, and I own the domain so there indeed can be ONLY one. ;-)

First it's funny to me that there are so many that proclaim they are "just like you" when in fact they're not like you at all. You have come out completely as yourself. You are no longer in a closet of any sort. You have banished secrets from your life and have begun to live authentically, however that may be. Is that TS as defined by us toxic types? I guess it depends, but my personal opinion is that the only thing that separates the 'real' from the 'pretender' is the secrets. There are those people who live real lives every single day, and then there are those who have secrets and live pretend lives. There is no other way to define it. Are you out or in?

Are you 'really' TS? I can't see into your heart so the only real measure is coming out. If someone has it in their heart to come out at work and show up presenting as a woman (or a man for my TS brothers) then I would say the proof is in the pudding.

[ReineD]

Is that TS as defined by us toxic types? I guess it depends,

What does it depend on? I'd really like to know what you think.

I agree there is a huge difference between people dressing in secret vs. being fully out as whoever they are. But, does being fully out necessarily mean that the person is TS, because there are also members in the other section who are out as either presenting female or gender-nonconforming and who present near full time like Isha. I know this may be an uncomfortable question since in a way, terms are being redefined, but I think this is what Isha is getting at with the being a good or bad TS (meaning, will others here consider her TS despite not wanting to change her male body).

My conjecture about possible future ways to look at this, as more and more people come out? I think that as the population becomes accustomed to birth-males presenting as women (and it's increasingly pointing this way), it will be less and less important for TSs to live stealth (with people not knowing they were born male) ... unless they have severe gender dysphoria and they do not want to be looked upon as male at all. The non-stealth TSs may not be considered female by the world at large who will still see male gender cues, but they won't be considered male either like other males, so maybe we are moving towards a world akin to native Americans' embracing the two-spirit concept?

If this is the case, it would be good to be clear about this in this section, so that others who have felt excluded up until now can feel free to participate here, provided they are out. We have one member in the UK who dresses in women's clothing but who does not hide the fact they are male-sexed, and who is fully accepted by everyone who matters. I don't know how this person identifies, but this is subjective, since several people can live the same way while identifying differently. I can honestly see more and more people doing this with the passage of time.

Anyway, I hope Marcelle, that you don't mind me asking so many questions. I've been awfully confused in the past about who is who around these parts and words are the only way we have to clarify, which again I think is your aim in starting this thread.

[PretzelGirl]

Isha, I have a probably overused saying, we all have our own trans* lives and our own trans* stories. There is no cookie cutter method here. Are you TS? You can tell us, we can't tell you. We can state the bounds by which we think a person who is TS relates. And making it vary is the fact that you really are living your "own trans* story". I don't believe it is ours to say. I have seen many variations on how we approach this and how we later live this. Figure out and be you and then if you believe you are TS, then you are TS. We don't license you by a checklist. :D


In other words, is it possible to be transsexual and not have gender dysphoria?

Reine, I am curious if you mean "not have gender dysphoria and still transition" or "at any time, not have gender dysphoria"? I ask because it is tough to imagine a person transitioning with no dysphoria. But anything is possible, so I imagine such a person exists. Just not many I presume. And for those that have it, the level can vary greatly from crippling to a sense all is not right and transition corrects it. As far as "at any time", I think it certainly can go away. If you align all your feelings and thoughts to where you think they should be and you gain comfort in yourself, then it certainly can disappear.

[Marcelle]

. . . If this is the case, it would be good to be clear about this in this section, so that others who have felt excluded up until now can feel free to participate here . . .

Anyway, I hope Marcelle, that you don't mind me asking so many questions. I've been awfully confused in the past about who is who around these parts and words are the only way we have to clarify, which again I think is your aim in starting this thread.

Hi all,

I am going to put the binders on this before the thread gets hijacked into "who belongs where" thread . . . that was not my intent. Bluntly put, I was looking for myself if I belong here or not based on my own circumstances and as many have aptly put . . . nobody can answer that question but me. So I will answer it and let the chips fall where they may. I am TS . . . end state. What it means to me may be different from what it means to others but there it is. ;)

Reine,

I do not mind you asking questions but I think I would prefer to answer them via PM vice in this thread as it may lead down rabbit holes best left to waxing poetic or philosophical discourse elsewhere.

Cheers

Isha

[Badtranny]

What does it depend on? I'd really like to know what you think.

It depends on what EVERYONE could agree on. lol

In lieu of that, I think (my opinion only) the only real demarcation can be drawn between out of the closet and closeted to any degree. I mean how are we supposed to know anything otherwise? If someone is so determined to let the world see who they are that they come out and live their lives right out in the open, then that's worthy of respect in my book. Believe me, if it was easy to come out than everybody would be doing it and it would truly be no big deal. The fact is, whether someone identifies as a binary trans person, or a gender queer, or even as a man in a dress, if they have the courage to stop hiding and stop pretending, then they have something to teach all of us.

Conversely, the closeted have nothing to teach, because they haven't come to grips with who they are. They have convictions without the courage, so anything they say must be tempered by that knowledge. They speak from their fantasies and not from hard earned realities. Coming out is no joke, it WILL leave a mark.

For some reason, this is a controversial topic, but people who come out and face the harsh realities of the world with no closet to hide in, are tough people who are generally no longer afraid to stand firm on what they believe. The closeted lash out at us because they hate being closeted, I don't blame them, but pretending that they aren't closeted for the purposes of this forum is just an exercise in silliness.

[stefan37]

GD is relentless and unpredictable. Things are good until they aren't. You are experiencing this first hand. A very short time ago. You were content to live a dual life. It didn't take very long to accelerate living pretty much full time. The past is gone. The future is uncertain. Live in the moment. That's all any if us can do.

[Rogina B]

My conjecture about possible future ways to look at this, as more and more people come out? I think that as the population becomes accustomed to birth-males presenting as women (and it's increasingly pointing this way), it will be less and less important for TSs to live stealth (with people not knowing they were born male) ... unless they have severe gender dysphoria and they do not want to be looked upon as male at all. The non-stealth TSs may not be considered female by the world at large who will still see male gender cues, but they won't be considered male either like other males, so maybe we are moving towards a world akin to native Americans' embracing the two-spirit concept
Every person that has and is forwarding our cause toward acceptance[and inclusion] has not lived a "stealthy" life. It is those that have stood up to the "traditional world" as "something different,but a good human" that is changing the world's view on us. We are a teaching tool..

[Dana44]

Isha, You telling this side of you resonates with me. You are not a bad TS, I never saw a bad bone in any of your posts. I too am a male but being a DES kid, I'm amazed that I grew up fairly manly. But we had to as men were men. I also love my body and I still switch about sixty forty of male to female switching. I know when we are switched we are definitely female in thought and actions. At sixty three years I'm still switching and still like my male side as well as the fem side. I languish over the fact that I cannot just be one or the other gender. You seem to be gravitating towards the fem side more. However, the man you once was might come back big time. In a way we are trannys but bad... no, perhaps naughty... LOL

[Lori Kurtz]

Everybody has to face his/her challenges in his/her own way. That's just as true with respect to gender identity and sexual orientation as anything else. Nobody has the right to judge you as a bad TS. That's an absolute truth, as far as I'm concerned. What's more important than what kind of a TS you are is what kind of person you are. You have shown yourself here to be admirable in your honesty, your caring for others and your open-mindedness.

[Rianna Humble]

I had hoped that this thread would address the OP's reality and not descend into accusation and counter-accusation.

As has been said by many transitioners here the only person here who can really know if Isha is transsexual is Isha herself.

A discussion about "can someone be TS without suffering Gender Dysphoria" might be interesting its own thread, but not if it leads to personal attacks.

I think this thread has run it's course