Topless laws

[Laurana]

So we know men can walk just about anywhere shirtless. And some states allow women to go topless, but not many. I've always wondered what the law was if a man with breast implants was to walk around without a shirt. Is it the same as if he didn't have breasts? Or is he treated like women are?


Just a curiosity.

[Charlotte_P]

My opinion is that the laws were written with gender as a defining characteristic. Since a man with breast implants is still a man, I would say it's probably not a problem. I would venture to say that it would pass muster in a court if it were ever to come to that. Just my .02 worth..

Charlotte

[alwayshave]

Laurana, I have a recollection of a news story from Florida where women were arrested for being topless on a beach and the next day two preop TSs went to the same beach took off there tops, the police went to arrest them, when they explained they had other equipment, the police had to back off.

[Laurana]

I honestly think the laws are stupid. And it's guys that ruin it. If women were allowed to go wherever topless guys would turn into 12 year olds. They'd giggle, point, take pictures, make rude comments, try to cop a feel etc.

It's also those who get offended by the naked body. Or those who think it's their religious obligation to be offended. For some reason they are "outraged" by womens nipples. They claim it's to "protect the children", but it's more the fact that they don't want to explain what breasts are.

Free the Nipple! :)

[I Am Paula]

Ten years ago last month, a U. Of Guelph, Ontario, student took her right to go topless to the supreme court. She won. Whoopee. Here in Canada, anyone can go topless. Nobody does.
What an incredible waste of our courts time.
Women- keep your tops on.
Men- unless you are constanly compaired to Brad Pitt- keep your damn shirts on !!!

[nicolelovescrystal]

I would think it would have a lot to do with if people perceived them as a male or as a female. If they looked like a man with breasts, I don't think there would be any issue. Some guys do have gynecomastia. However, someone who has breasts implants probably also looks very feminine as other things would come into play i.e. feminine hair, feminine features caused by hormone therapy, feminine eyebrows, lack of facial hair or stubble, etc. So if someone appeared to be a genetic female then they would most likely at least get hassled by the cops

[Beverley Sims]

Seems similar to why can't men wear dresses, interesting line of thought though.

[Amy Lynn3]

I just read that women were allowed to walk the streets of NYC topless. Not sure I would want to do that if I were a real gg. Being pinched comes to mind...lots of times.:battingeyelashes:

[Lorileah]

Good legal question. It would be a public decency law. If the breasts appeared female, I am sure the law would require cover IF the law was in place. It isn't a gender law (that would very illegal in the US...because we cannot discriminate based on gender). Public decency and morality are harder to define. Thus the law would either have to allow everyone or no one. If and when these laws are challenged the ruling will not be who owns them but if the community finds them against decency

[Lena]

I don't know, but I'd love to see the reactions on Houston.

[Stephanie kirby]

to be honest in my town over here in the uk, no one would bat a eyelid, .

[Eryn]

...Here in Canada, anyone can go topless. Nobody does....

Well, it may be legal by the laws of man, but the laws of heat transfer still prohibit it. Frostbite hurts! :)

I've never felt particularly comfortable going topless even in full male mode, so I suppose that I won't be freeing the girls anytime soon.

[Kelli Jo-ann]

It is legal for a woman to go topless at Topsail Beach North Carolina. However it is very rare to see it.

[Gabby6790]

Just read an article about this on mashable. A Trans woman is writing articles and posting pics on facebook as she progresses on HRT. She is daring them to censor her posts.

[Dana L]

Technically yes we can go topless. Many cities and municipalities will still cite you for indecency if you are presenting female. Personally I never go topless in public. It's just not right and I'm not comfortable with being topless anyway. So my opinion is,if your breasts look female, just abide by the laws for women, unless you want to push an issue.

[docrobbysherry]

While visiting France years ago, we wanted to visit St. Tropez. The then famous nude beach. I was in my 20's.

We went wearing only swim trunks. But, after hanging around for 1/2 hour? We weren't comfortable being the only "clothed" beach folks. And, took them off!:o

[Tracii G]

Right or wrong why push the subject and cause trouble for yourself?
Attorney fees and court costs aren't cheap.
I wish guys would keep their shirts on.

[char GG]

Really? If you want to be and/or act like a woman, there are a set of norms that a woman has to follow in most areas of the US. You can't just flip flop back to being a man when it suits you when it comes to public nudity.

I don't think a transman with a full "set of upper chest area" still intact, can go around topless and claim that he (she) is a man and get away with it.

:2c:

[Chriscrossed]

Being nude is all about context in the nordic countries. We don't get naked in the office but at our summer houses it's common to go swimming nude among friends of both genders after a sauna if it strikes our fancy. Fishing nude is also a thing here ;)

[andreanna]

Ten years ago last month, a U. Of Guelph, Ontario, student took her right to go topless to the supreme court. She won. Whoopee. Here in Canada, anyone can go topless. Nobody does.
What an incredible waste of our courts time.
Women- keep your tops on.
Men- unless you are constanly compaired to Brad Pitt- keep your damn shirts on !!!

No not all of Canada. Only in Ontario. Remember we are a big country here!

[Krisi]

It's a legal question. We need a lawyer to answer it. Note though, what you can wear at a beach or swimming pool and what you can wear in town could be very different.

[I Am Paula]

Pardon me Andreanna. I did not know the topless law was provincial. It brings up a much bigger question. Who cares? We've always had topless beaches. The question of someone walking down the street topless is well...ridiculous. This year at city hall they had a topless celebration. Less than a dozen women showed up.

[BillieJoEllen]

After I turned thirtyish my breasts started growing to quite a large size. After that I never felt like I wanted to take my shirt off out in public. Then about ten years ago I thought to heck with it all and began taking my shirt off when pursuing certain activities. Now once again my breasts are still big but closer to normal man size. What I'm getting at is my chest was bigger than about ten different women that I know. If they decided to go bra and shirtless I'm sure the authorities would have cited them. I guess I just don't plain 'get it'.

[Gillian Gigs]

I have seen guys on the beach who's moobs are rather big. I'm prone to think, put a bra on, so you don't hurt yourself. If these guys can do it, then any girl should be allowed also. It is just like the whole breast feeding thing, if you don't like it...then don't look!

[Andrea Renea]

Perfectly legal here in N. Carolina.

Every Aug for the last 5 years the city of Asheville has had go topless day.

In a 1970 court case, the N.C. Court of Appeals ruled that female breasts were not “private parts” and therefore could not be considered indecent. So I assume that would apply to men with breast too.

[chinabrown]

A MTF TS took there shirt off showing large breast when they were not allowed into the women's restroom.itvwas a big story on the news.Google it..

Another ts took there shirt off at the beach showing enhanced breast to protest not having the rights of women.the courts said they was a man so they took there shirt off parading there breast.

Drivers license protest:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1097978

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2011/11/transgender-woman-arrested-after-exposing-her-breasts-at-dmv-protest/

[Leighcdmd]

I'm an attorney. Here's some free legal advice - worth every cent you paid for it. This is all about not being a dummy. It is not difficult to figure out whether going topless for women....or those who present as women is going to be a problem. Whether this is due to law, custom, community mores or the enforcement ...or lack of enforcement of laws, regulations or ordinances. This is not a civil rights or human rights issue. In fact, it is trivial. Don't risk the embarrassment or possible legal consequences by offering yourself up as some sort of test case. If you are not in a place that clearly tolerates (for whatever reason) toplessness, then leave your shirt on. Nuff said?

[Krisi]

Nuff said!

[pamela7]

Frankly, any law restricting anything other than the causing of actual harm to another person (or the environment) is a nonsense, but there's plenty of nonsense to go round these days in our prudish post-puritan society.

Nudity is the natural human state, that is a fact. Protection of mating right and against incidental violation make for clothing and gendered restrooms; the basis of so-called civilisation.

As to topless or not. The hidden or partially-hidden bounty is more tempting than the actuality, the bra adds more - and show me a CD'er who prefers commando to panties!

[Krisi]

If you were the father (or mother) of small children, you would probably not have the same opinion. Would you want your five year old daughter approached by a man wearing no pants?

[Leighcdmd]

Wow Pamela! Then laws governing property rights, construction standards, food safety, educational standards, drug purity, fair housing, motor vehicle safety, child pornography, financial crimes etc. must all be nonsense too?? Clothing requirements and gender separated rest rooms are imposed by society (per your post) as the basis for "so called civilization"....seriously?? Not sure what you mean by "protection of mating right". Scratching my head here.

[Barbara Jo]

Legally, if someone is still legally a man they can expose theri breasts anywhere no matter what they look like.

As far as what states where it's legal for a female to to do so......
I know in NY State (where i live) it has be legal for decades for a female to expose their breasts in public as it has been ruled discriminatory to allow a man to do so but not a woman .
The irony is, almost no females in NY know this or, if they do, have no desire to exposes themselves .

[Lorileah]

Fishing nude is also a thing here ;) fighting comment about "bait"


If you were the father (or mother) of small children, you would probably not have the same opinion. Would you want your five year old daughter approached by a man wearing no pants?

If that isn't a sexist remark I don't know WHAT is. Why do you assume any male approaching any child would be endangering that child in any manner? The OP asked about breasts, something the children in the US are taught are sexual in nature when they aren't. So pants is a red herring to start with. IF you taught your children that genitals are not something to be ashamed of or afraid of, why would a man or a woman approaching a child be any different with clothing or without?

[Pumped]

Weird laws are all over. The big motorcycle rally at Sturgis SD for example. Women running around with not much more than a thong for bottoms, no tops are needed as long as the nipples are covered. So you see galls with the breasts running free with a tiny pasties over the nipples, and nothing covering the backside. I have seen gals from the back side you would swear they were naked until you look closer and see the almost invisible string for the thong, pretty much the same from the front other than the tiny thong and pasties covering the minimum. About as close to naked as you can get. Too bad 3/4ths of them really need to be covered, with a tarp!

[Katey888]

Clothing requirements and gender separated rest rooms are imposed by society (per your post) as the basis for "so called civilization"....seriously?? Not sure what you mean by "protection of mating right". Scratching my head here.

:lol: You're not the only one Leigh... and you have highlighted the minor contradiction in Pamela's world view - are we as nature intended, or are we civilised people! Yes - men wearing women's clothing! Ahem... OK - I guess that's not an argument that will always hold water with the other 98% of males...

But look - laws do not define what you must wear, only that what you choose to wear conforms to an interpretation of what is decent (or more likely what does not cause a disturbance of an otherwise, law-abiding and harmonious peace...) - and it will be down to interpretation and judgment because laws like this are seldom rigid in western society and they do flex with time and fashion...

Can you imagine a hundred years ago, internet chat rooms were probably having the same discussions about women's ankles... :facepalm: Oh, I'm sure they were.... ;)

Katey x

[jenniferinsf]

katey you are a riot with you comments....lol...just the other day in my local park, kept my ladies top on when i was sunning myself on my back and took it off to sun my back. i wear a bikini to the beach so the white triangles are obvious...did my v best to keep them hidden...

my ankles were exposed the whole time - daring but necessary

[Krisi]

If that isn't a sexist remark I don't know WHAT is. Why do you assume any male approaching any child would be endangering that child in any manner? The OP asked about breasts, something the children in the US are taught are sexual in nature when they aren't. So pants is a red herring to start with. IF you taught your children that genitals are not something to be ashamed of or afraid of, why would a man or a woman approaching a child be any different with clothing or without?

Perhaps it is responses like this from people like you that cause people to leave this forum and not come back. http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?231892-Sometimes-wonder-where-they-went-what-happened

If you seriously believe that a man walking around town with his genitals hanging out would not be a cause for concern by most people, you are seriously out of touch with the real world. My post was not at all "sexist", it was reality. Get out in the world and meet some "normal" people.

A man walking around with his genitals exposed (or a woman, for that matter) would be arrested by the police and charged with indecent exposure. It's crime.

[Samantha Clark]

I only surveyed two States, since I'm not licensed in others.

In Oregon the statute defines nudity to include the "post-pubertal female breast" but Oregon does not apparently prohibit public nudity in general. It prohibits display obscene materials to minors (obscene being defined to include depictions of nudity) and it prohibits display of nudity for advertising purposes.

In Washington the statute makes it a crime to make "any open and obscene exposure of his or her person ... knowing that such conduct is likely to cause reasonable affront or alarm." How vague is that? Obscene is not defined, and reasonable affront or alarm could mean almost anything to the meekest and mildest Washington resident I suppose.

It is notable that Oregon makes the crime, vis-a-vis breasts, dependent on the gender of the person since that is an element of the offense, whereas Washington does not. In Washington the issue is really the "cause reasonable affront or alarm" element, and the issue of gender doesn't really arise unless it arises in the context of what could "reasonably affront."

The advocate for TS rights in Oregon would take the view that a female for the purposes of the statute is not limited to sex assigned at birth females. The advocate for TS rights in Washington would not have the same opportunity to advocate for gender equivalency.