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Luciana
10-12-2015, 10:18 AM
This thread may be a little disturbing for the elders in forum, but I don't want in any way to offend anyone. This is a subject that really concerns me. About to turning 50 the fact is that I am not getting younger and once in a while I catch myself thinking about this.

The other day I was trying a corset and noticed that it didn't look as gorgeous as a similar piece used to be 20 years ago. Then I noticed that my body is not as attractive as it used to do before. I still have a round butt but when I was skinny and had a small waist it looked like a girl's butt, but now it doesn't seem to be as appealing. Then looking at my shaved legs I can see that the skin is not the same anymore.

:(

The point is that IN MY MIND, Luciana is a girl that will be young forever (probably at her 25) and she is very curvy and sexy. When I look at the mirror now I can see that she is starting to fade away because I am getting older while she is stuck at her 25. I don't know if my CD impulse will survive to my aging, but I keep thinking how I will feel when I look at the mirror and figure out that Luciana is not there anymore. I don't like to think about me as my grandma.

Anyway, regardless the CDing, I have this particular problem with aging. I hate the process. And I don't buy all the statements about the compensation of maturity, wisdom and such. For me aging is just an unfair process where my body will be taken off of me. And no matter what I do I cannot accept it. The CDing stuff just makes it harder to stand.

How do you handle this? Someone else has this problem with aging?

Laura912
10-12-2015, 10:50 AM
There is only one option to aging. Think about it. If you can afford it, go see a plastic surgeon to manage the cosmetic part.

Leahann
10-12-2015, 10:51 AM
At 67 i just accept it. That is not to say that i am happy that i cannot look as nice as the younger gurls, but it sure beats the alternative to aging.

Pat
10-12-2015, 11:16 AM
I think in our minds we're all "forever young." When I think of myself as a male, I think of me as a teenager. When thinking of myself as a female I see me in my early 20's. When I look in the mirror -- I see my Dad. :(

People look the way they're supposed to look. You've certainly known older people and it didn't bother you. Naturally it's because they're not you, but in fact we all have our own beauty, we just have to find it. (First step is self-acceptance.) Find some older people (and trust me, 50 ain't old...) that look appealing and figure out why -- what about them looks good? It's probably not that they try to cling to youth, but that they exhibit style and grace consistent with their age. Go for that. ;)

TerriM
10-12-2015, 11:24 AM
I'm 67 and have been going out dressed on and off since I was 29. I sometimes look at old pics and think I look better now then I did when I was younger. I love the look of a classy older woman. Everyone has their own tastes.
Terri

katie_barns
10-12-2015, 11:26 AM
GG's get old and so does Luciana. Sorry but we all deal with it. Ill be 60 very soon. I do hope Katie as age fairly well, but she is not the girl I seen in the mirror 20 years ago.

Jodi
10-12-2015, 12:26 PM
I am now 70 yrs old. I have had the same thoughts at times, but I say to me, "live with it", The other alternative is illness, disability or death. I'll take what I have.

Jodi

janeycdbbw
10-12-2015, 12:28 PM
Welcome to my world too.... I have to work at accepting the aging thing too. It isn't just with dressing either of course. I try to embrace it as much as I can though.

Leslie Langford
10-12-2015, 12:30 PM
Funny how age doesn't seem to have slowed down Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler, Clint Eastwood, Dolly Parton, Betty White, Madonna, or even Cher one iota. Even RuPaul at 50+ is still very much the consummate glamazon, and as for Caitlyn Jenner - well, 'nuff said already....

Even at my advanced age (north of 65), I still prefer to look upon them as my role models as opposed to those folks who have already aged prematurely, both mentally and physically.

Let's be truthful here - the only "cure" for old age is either death (the "Final Frontier") or else dementia, in which case you become unaware of your present situation and revert back to mentally living in the past. Neither one is a particularly palatable option, and ones that I am not ready to submit to just quite yet.

So yes, "Leslie" is very much alive and kicking, and my pleasure in crossdressing simply continues to grow and evolve as opposed moving towards the downward slide.

Stephj
10-12-2015, 12:35 PM
At 51 one Stephj still goes for walks jumps rope and beats up on a heavy bag plus a lot of push ups 4 times a week may not be young any more but still trying to fight old age

Adriana Moretti
10-12-2015, 12:36 PM
I will eventually be heading up there in age, 2 things I do NOW to prepare is this...

1.Find older role models...I actually see older gals that I say to myself wow...I want to look like THAT when I am older.

There are also real tg /cd gals out there I know too that I look up to, cause they look great !!!!

2. Take care of your skin now...moisturizer, vitamin C , and eye creme is your best friend .

Barbara Jo
10-12-2015, 12:42 PM
Take pleasure in the fact that you are at the age you are as you get older. Only the lucky get to be "old" :)
The best thing we can do is to watch our weight, eat right, get adequate exercise as we get older and dress our ages.... keeping in mind that all GGs face's age as they get older.
BTW, I am now 68 and my avitar is a recent pic.

There is an old saying......." a person who worships youth denies themselves the future "

Anne K
10-12-2015, 01:06 PM
Hi Luciana. I'd like to thank you for the recent series of VERY thought provoking Threads. I appreciate your honesty and ability to put your thoughts out to our world.

I am over 60 and yes, aging is a bit distressing. On top of aging, I have had to deal with a disability (leg braces) for 30 year. No heels for me! :sad: Frankly, I think I look better when I CD! Is it the magic of make up or just my crazy imagination. My SO thinks I look "beautiful", so I guess I can't ask for more. My hope is to age gently and graciously.

OCCarly
10-12-2015, 01:13 PM
I am 52, and I tend to look to famous women my age who bear a little bit of a resemblance to me. That said, if I come off looking like Diane Lane, then i am happy. If I come off looking like Nathan Lane, then not so much...

251807 251809

larry
10-12-2015, 01:21 PM
Well at 72 I am just as ugly as always. Never was or will be pretty. So it's the closet for me . hehe It is fun when I dress at home though.

paulaprimo
10-12-2015, 01:33 PM
There are also real tg /cd gals out there I know too that I look up to, cause they look great !!!!.

gee thanks adriana, i know you're talking about me!! :rofl:

AllieSF
10-12-2015, 01:50 PM
I have always been young at heart, or maybe it is just a permanent immaturity? My body, skin and face clearly show the signs of aging, even though I always, as my Dad too, looked much younger for my age as I aged, and still do in male mode. I have also been able to always put major issues, after some suffering, quickly out of sight and out of mind in a short period of time. So, I am still awed at the transformation from male to female that I am able to accomplish every time that I dress up to go out. As I just mentioned in another thread here, I limit my serious "look at myself" time in the mirror to only making sure that I am at that point of "As good as I can do" and then maintain that presentation throughout the evening. Like you, a close look reveals the painful truth and I try to minimize that truth as much as possible. Yes, I do occasionally suffer that aging reality and then quickly put that out of my mind.

Tricks of the trade that many of us use include shape wear, proper fitting and stylish clothes and accessories to compliment what we have and act as camouflage for what we do not have. I use those to their fullest and am constantly looking for new tricks to help fool my truthful mind. As you can see from the posts before mine, many or most of us are much older than you and still flying high enjoying our moments, while at the same time hiding many unwanted truths. Good luck you are moving toward that other light at the end of the tunnel and other truth in life besides taxes. So, please try to enjoy all the moments you get and can create.

CynthiaD
10-12-2015, 02:13 PM
As I got older I got a lot smarter, and a lot less good looking. Ugly and smart is a lot better than pretty and stupid, if you ask me. So no regrets.

cindyinsatin
10-12-2015, 02:28 PM
This is a great conversation and some very intriguing thoughts. I too struggle with the aging thing even as a guy. Just see things changing that disturb me.

When en femme, those pervasive thoughts seem to soften. I know this is just my mind playing tricks on me though. Even with the wig, makeup, etc…I am still just a guy wearing women's clothes.

Barbara Jo
10-12-2015, 02:36 PM
I have always been young at heart, or maybe it is just a permanent immaturity? ...............

My philosophy on growing older gracefully which I sometimes tell people is this........
"Never fear getting older as only the lucky get to be old but, never forget what it like to be a child" :)

So, it's a great thing to be young at heart which is never to be confused with immaturity.

Luciana
10-12-2015, 02:40 PM
I would like to thank you very much for all participation and exchanging of thoughts! I am loving this community so far!


Hi Luciana. I'd like to thank you for the recent series of VERY thought provoking Threads. I appreciate your honesty and ability to put your thoughts out to our world.
Joyce, I am glad that my provocations are being well taken here! I wasn't too lucky in the past in other forums. Seems that here people are too much more open mind. :) All these threads are part of my internal conflicts and stuff that I think in a daily basis. Sometimes I guess I think too much though!

:)

Krisi
10-12-2015, 03:56 PM
Laura says it all in post #2. If you are lucky, you too will eventually be an old crossdresser. Please have some dignity and don't try to dress like a twenty five year old when you are sixty five.

Tina_gm
10-12-2015, 06:18 PM
Yep, aging stinks. At least half the regular posters on this forum are past 40 I think, many are in their 60's, 70's. Hopefully most typically dress somewhat of their age. Nothing wrong with cheating it a little bit, but but micro skirts, thigh highs and 6 inch heels probably aren't a good look. Basically if it is not a good look on a GG (age related) then not a good look on a CDer either.

You say you are stuck at 25, in my head, I still feel 20, if that. I am 50, near 51. I will say this, I do have a somewhat youthful appearance for my age, but it isn't 20. I am talking about regular guy me too BTW. And I struggle hard to act my age, as well as regular guy me hehe. I haven't done anything to give me my youthful appearance other than an attitude that old age is going to take me kicking and screaming. Father time is knocking ever louder at the door, but I haven't let him in, he is going to have to break down the door and he will have one heck of a fight on his hands. In the end, he will win as he always does, but not without a fight. not internally anyway.

Tracii G
10-12-2015, 06:24 PM
Yes moisturize your skin now.
I have been doing it for 10 years now and people don't think I am as old as I am.

flatlander_48
10-12-2015, 06:32 PM
L:

There are a couple of old sayings:

"I'm not as young as I once was, but with any luck, I'm not as old as I'm going to get."

"I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was."


Words to carry with you, and I know as I will be 67 in a couple of months.

DeeAnn

stockings_jane
10-12-2015, 06:34 PM
I rejoice in the fact that cross dressing allows me to shed some years in appearance. I am 66 (today) but I only started a year ago. Whilst I don't therefore have a comparison to evaluate concerning my younger CD self and how I am today, I can luxuriate in looking younger with make up, wig, heels and underwear - this of course is just a by product of dressing. So.... my view is that whilst we all regret the ageing process, cross dressers have a wonderful advantage in being able to create an exciting and different alter ego that allows a different self image. It will never fully reflect the image in the mind's eye, but it is an image that affords an opportunity to at least reflect a different image. Hard to achieve in boring ol' repetitive drab.

flatlander_48
10-12-2015, 06:43 PM
s_j:

Interesting that you used the term alter-ego. When I told people that I was going to be the Mistress of Ceremonies this past weekend, I said "I will be presenting as my alter-ego, DeeAnn.". It just seemed to be a good way to explain who I was and what I would be doing.

DeeAnn

Stephanie47
10-12-2015, 07:39 PM
I'll limit my comments to cross dressing. Take a trip to the mall and watch the women going by. Take a look at the body types. There are too many young girls and women who do not fit your profile of an attractive body. The same may be said of those in any age group. I know many women who have maintained a health body and mind. They are attractive. They have keen minds. They dress attractively. If you want the hour glass figure of your twenties it is obtainable. It will take work to get there and then maintain it.

I've read some comments by GG's on this site who make the assessment that too many aging cross dressers are stuck back in the teen years and have not progressed into the older and more "mature" years. Frankly, whether thinking or dressing in male or female mode I have more fun acknowledging my age and its limitations.

My youthful figure was 38-30-38 as a young adult with wavy very blond hair. I was 175 lbs. Now, I'm still six foot even, 195 pounds, and 42(C)-38-40. Based on what I see at the mall I think my figure is a lot better than too many women my age. I prefer to wear sheath, wrap and empire waist dresses because they do not accentuate a waist.

Male or female aging is inevitable. Your comments indicating there is some offset to aging from wisdom. I know a lot of @sses my age.

MelanieAnne
10-12-2015, 07:51 PM
There will come a day, when you get out of bed, stand up and say, aaaahhhh, another day above ground.:D

immike
10-12-2015, 09:22 PM
I still love to experiment with womens clothes,different styles&I simply use pantyhose to keep my legs looking their best&every once in a while I sneak into
mothers closet&borrow a pair of her heels

Sandra119
10-13-2015, 08:52 AM
I started crossdressing at about 14 years old I'm now 64 I don't see any problem with looking old you dress to your age

Amber42
10-13-2015, 09:04 AM
Aging does suck. Regardless of being M/F/CD, aging is a reality that we must all face.

My goal is to always look younger for the age I am at.

If I can always look 5-10 years less than what I actually am, I think I'm ahead!

Moisturize, workout, eat well. Those are the tools you can use without invasive techniques.

SherriePall
10-13-2015, 09:20 AM
I'm three years into Medicare and I still love to dress. As we grow older we have to work harder at maintaining or preventing the woes of aging -- skin care to physical fitness. And, yes, sometimes we have to adapt -- wearing different foundation clothing or different styles.
But we keep on dressing and getting dolled up!

Kate Simmons
10-13-2015, 09:29 AM
I dunno. A lot of folks on here, including myself. will tell you that makeup and a nip here and a tick there works wonders. :battingeyelashes::)

Sheren Kelly
10-13-2015, 09:55 AM
At 57, I consider myself fortunate (my father died prior to his 52nd year).

I like to think I am the same person I was at 20, but age takes its toll and I may not be as quick or adventurous as I once was, but I am happy for every day.
It seems to me your concern stems from not having the experiences of a younger/attractive woman, something that you can not go back and obtain, so why fret over it. Embrace who you are today and celebrate it as our lives are finite.
Be thankful that society is becoming aware of gender diversity and there is more space for us to explore.

Teresa
10-13-2015, 10:38 AM
Luciana,
I'm as happy with my figure now as I was years ago, OK the face gets a few more lines and wrinkles but it happens to us all male or female. You have to try and look after yourself as best you can, eat sensibly and exercise regularly. I do a vigorous walk twice a day with the dog and add a bit of dressing for the fun of it !
Cding isn't going away it's for life so dress and makeup accordingly it's still enjoyable fun, don't expect to look like a catwalk model for ever because even they can't achieve that !

Beverley Sims
10-13-2015, 10:51 AM
You just have to shape shift along with the age shift.

When I was thirty five the rot started to set in and I just have to go with the flow now, and look as good as I can.

Nikkilovesdresses
10-13-2015, 11:38 AM
Look at the Stones. I think Keef's actually proud of his age lines, but I bet Mick hates ageing. IMO one of them's a jerk, and it ain't Keef.

Try to grow old disgracefully.

docrobbysherry
10-13-2015, 12:08 PM
Of course you're going to age. If u r lucky u will, anyway!:heehee:

But, years ago I lost 20+ pounds when I got serious about Sherry's figure. I do a series of stretching excercises and crunches every morning. I feel I'm in better shape now than in my 50's! I can still dance all nite in hi heels. :D

I refuse to look over 25! And, using girdles, figure pads, silicone prosthesis, and masks, I'm able to continually see young women in my mirror.:daydreaming:

If u FEEL old, then go ahead and present as old. I'm not there yet! And, u don't have to look old either. No matter your cronological age. There's ways to stay young looking if u REALLY wish to.:devil:

This is what I prefer to see in my mirror. NOT a 70 y/o man in a dress!
251835

Angela Marie
10-13-2015, 02:05 PM
At 61 I feel good. Regular exercise and eating sensibly goes a long way.

audreyinalbany
10-13-2015, 02:30 PM
I see a lot of comments from other girls that dressing femme takes a few years off and I think that's true. But, y'know, I've noticed that many,many, many women DO look younger than their husbands.Maybe it's just 'cause I don't find men attractive or something, but I'm always seeing couples that look like the woman is way younger than the man even when there is no more than a year or two age difference. it' s certainly true in my own marriage. I"m a gray haired old man and my wife , a year and half younger than me, is still seriously hot.

jessica33
10-13-2015, 02:39 PM
Do not regret getting old , it is a privilege denied to many .

bimini1
10-13-2015, 02:41 PM
Yes. I crossed the big five-o this summer. I was just thinking as I prepare for my next outing, I can't pull it off like I used to. A few bags under the eyes, wrinkles setting in on place where 15 years ago their were none. I still get plenty compliments in male mode of looking good for my age most folks can't believe I'm 50. But the difference between now and then is very apparent to me. Gotta accept it and roll with it. But for me the feeling is getting more and more like thinking of my own mortality and if I don't live my life now I am gonna look back and say coulda woulda shoulda but can't.

That has got to be the worst feeling in the world. To get to death's door and wish you would have been you.

Carmen
10-13-2015, 03:41 PM
Aging...I've come to terms and make the most of it, yes sometimes it gets me down. I'm lazy by nature, so I have to work at maintaining myself.
I'm halfway to 60.

MelanieAnne
10-13-2015, 08:11 PM
My goal is to always look younger for the age I am at.

If I can always look 5-10 years less than what I actually am, I think I'm ahead!

My thoughts, exactly! I never dress my age. I'm not attracted to women my age, so why would I want to look like one. Not to brag, but I have better legs than any woman I know, 10 years younger than I am. When I get a new dress, I take the scissors to it, and shorten it up. Way up! If I want to look in the mirror, and get turned on, I don't want to be looking at a granny! :heehee:

Dana44
10-13-2015, 11:48 PM
I am turning 64 this week. I still look in my forties. So hoot, treat yourself well and do a few masks and use moisturizers. I do get-fit and Yoga to maintain my body. It helps keep me in pretty good shape. Yoga itself is pretty good.

Leighcdmd
10-14-2015, 05:15 AM
I turned 67 last week and don't feel old at all. Life is a gift. I lost my Dad when he was 53 and a beloved sister when she was 48. Now that I am retired, I have the time and resources to dress more often and to take greater care of my body. Aging cannot be avoided but it is nothing to fear.

BLUE ORCHID
10-14-2015, 06:13 AM
Hi Luciana, I will be 73 in a month and a half, I enjoy my life when dressing either en-drab or as a mature lady.
I always take a lot of pride in my appearance in both modes I still have a full head of hair.:hugs:

When dressed as a lady I can pull off a mid 50s' to 60s' look I make every effort to look and present as feminine
as I can .

My collection of clothes, wigs and shoes gives me so much pleasure to be the lovely lady that I want to be.

These are truly the Golden years of my life and my dressing as a lady.:daydreaming:

CarlaWestin
10-14-2015, 07:08 AM
For me aging is just an unfair process, and I don't buy all the statements about the compensation of maturity, wisdom and such.

I think that maturity and appreciation is your real issue. I'll be sixtie in two months and I know that my real priorities are health and finance.
Hell, I can buy beauty but, you have to truthfully embrace the real issues with aging.
And celebrate what comes with it.

251863

Sharon B.
10-14-2015, 08:06 AM
No matter what age I get (I will be 62 next year) there will always be one thing I enjoy doing and that is dressing as a woman. I may still be alone in my activity and alone in life but I won't stop dressing and/or shopping for my feminine attire and makeup.
It is my way of dealing with stress, some people drink, some do drugs or take drugs, some play golf. Me I like dressing as a woman.

CONSUELO
10-14-2015, 04:44 PM
Your best years are ahead of you. You will find that you are more relaxed about cross dressing and will enjoy it more.

Buttercup's Princess
10-14-2015, 05:20 PM
As I age, I am being faced with less than perfect health. I challenge myself to accept myself and to be comfortable with my aging self, and control what I can like excerixe and natural remedies. However, I do feel sad when i see that perfect crop top that I just can't pull off anymore since I'm no longer a teenager. :eek:

Heather J
10-14-2015, 07:08 PM
I just turned 56 and the one thing this crazy hobbies has taught me is that if your happy with yourself the rest doesn't matter.

jenniferinsf
10-14-2015, 07:26 PM
what a great thread....first i want to say that as a older woman i appear to be part of the majority...whoopeeee..

i have only been dressing a year or so and now dressed about 80% of the time. i go out all the time including hours today...at the mall (buying makeup, then playing golf now at home with my wife and her woman friend)

i realize that at 66 i have a few good years left and want to make the most of them...then hold on for dear life

Katey888
10-15-2015, 06:27 AM
Luciana, I think it's clear many of us have this problem - not much any of us can do about the implacable march of time... :(

But there are some great examples here already of how us slightly 'mature' girls can maintain some elegance and grace through keeping fit, eating healthy, and treating your body the way it should be...

Other than that, apply plenty of foundation and take lots of selfies NOW so that you have a youthful inventory of pics that will last years in the virtual world... ;)

I'm sorry, but I will NOT be trading over to a grey wig... EVER... :eek:

Katey x

sometimes_miss
10-15-2015, 09:59 AM
Our experience is entirely up to ourselves; we can see things in any way we want to. We choose. I can think of myself as a 90 year old man, or a girl of 14. Only reality gets in the way, but we choose how to interpret that as well. Sometimes all we need is sufficient feedback telling us what we are, and, avoiding that which tells us what we don't want to see. I crossdress in attire, and wear other things too, which support the feeling of being that 14 year old girl. Because that was what I thought I was going to be. A future as a man was never envisioned once I was 7 years old. From then on, all thoughts looking forward were envisioning a female life. There was nothing to prepare me for being a man. So although in reality I'm nearing retirement, in my mind I will forever be that 14 year old girl. The rest, is all an act. So, I'm an actress, if you will. An actress living an entire life, forever playing first the role of boy, then man, and have done a marvelous job of it so far, other than the brief moment when a wife decided to peek at the actress behind the curtain, and be so horrified by what she learned, that she had to turn away forever.

So in my mind, I'm still 14. I can act like I'm older; and experience has made me very good at it. But I will be stuck, female, 14, forever. In my mind, at least, forever young.

PamTG
10-15-2015, 10:27 AM
I guess for me I personally feel that age gets in the way about how I feel about making changes in myself when it comes to being Transgender. I feel like at the age of 41 years old that if I don't deal with being Transgender right now that it will be too late as I get older and that I better make some changes now before I get too old to make a change. It might not even be true but that is the mentality that goes on in my head.

I feel like I need to transition now while I am still young and get that body that I really want before everything starts to sag and so on. I sometimes wish that I would have come to terms with my feelings when I was in my twenties but then realized that I would have never had the confidence at that time either so its all about how you feel within yourself that everything else will fall into place.

Veronica27
10-15-2015, 10:58 AM
At 76, I feel like I have passed the quarter pole and am now in the home stretch. Mentally I still feel like I am about 40, but physically my body keeps dropping hints about the reality of my age. As the years pass, I become more and more aware of my mortality. and the urge to accomplish what I can in my time left keeps growing. I find myself crossdressing more than I ever did, but there are a number of obvious reasons for this. Retirement and the empty nest have provided far more opportunities than in days of yore. Also there is a sense of frustration over the lost time because of the necessity of so much suppression of those desires that I am determined to compensate in my twilight years.

Crossdressing has never been a matter of thinking I looked pretty or beautiful. I have never been overly conscious or caring about my appearance whether in male or female mode, as other things in life were always more important to me. Mirrors have always been used to ensure I didn't cut myself shaving, and to make sure the basic requirements of combed hair, straight ties and so on were met. When I crossdress, they are handy for doing makeup, and making sure everything is hanging correctly etc. I never gaze admiringly or even disgustedly at my mirror image because I don't really care that much. It is simply the sensation of being able, as a man, to dress in a completely different manner than is expected and to enjoy the adventure and excitement of doing so. That has never changed despite my age, and I hope never will for as long as I am able to strap on a bra, pull up some pantyhose and slide a dress over my body.

I don't really worry about what age has done to my appearance, but I just feel saddened sometimes that this glorious gift called life has to end at some point.

Veronica

Terri Andrews
10-17-2015, 06:47 PM
I am 70 and still am enjoying the gift of being Transgender and being alive .
The thing that bothers me most is that I am running out of time ,I guess that is why I Try to get out every day and never take any day for granted.

Angie G
10-17-2015, 07:36 PM
I'm 67 and I just go with the flow. I can't stop it so I let it go. besides my butt still looks okey.:hugs:
Angie

Charlyne
10-17-2015, 08:26 PM
I am 68 and I like my, sort of dumpy, self. When my wife likes a particular angle or look; she takes a photo for me to view.

Alice B
10-18-2015, 02:34 PM
Aging is but a stage of mind. Accept yourself and enjoy the adventure.

flatlander_48
10-18-2015, 04:46 PM
Someone else has this problem with aging?

Actually, instead of focusing on something that you cannot change, work on something where you can realistically effect change. If not, you open the door to a lot of unnecessary misery.

DeeAnn