Veracity's Companion (TS transitioner responses only, please)

[LeaP]

This thread is intended as a companion to Misty's Veracity thread. The purpose is to ask about a narrow, but important point on which there is insufficient clarity.

Please respond only if you are a "transsexual transitioner" - here meaning that you have socially transitioned, or have taken steps in your public life to do so.

Does the current focus and range of discussion in the Transsexual Forum materially affect discussions important to transition or transitioners?

Responses may be positive or negative, but are limited to scope above. Please do NOT comment on the worthiness of other topics. Please indicate your transition status with your answer.

My answer:

I'm in transition.

The impact is negative. Responses not only take threads into areas of lesser or no interest to transitioners, they drive substantive transition discussion offline. This content is then lost to a potentially larger audience.

[Abby Kae]

I'm in transition.

The current discussions and debates have made this a terrifying forum to want to post information about myself and to ask for advice. I want to post an update thread about my progress and current situation, but I don't know if I will be accepted.

[Frances]

You may be missing the point Abby. You can start a thread talking about exactly what's happening to you at this exact point in your process. No one will have a problem with that.

I think Lea means non transitioners barging in threads with opinions about how to be a neo woman living full-time, for instance. I say it depends on the level of respect. I have a been member for over 10 years, but I did not participate in conversations until I was well on my way through the process. I came here to listen, not to tell others what's what.

Me: post transition (SRS 5 years ago). Impact often negative, as conversations get derailed by people feeling "left out" when they should not have entered the room. Not every thread is about everyone's situation and not every topic should take into account everyone's feelings.

[Abby Kae]

You may be missing the point Abby. You can start a thread talking about exactly what's happening to you at this exact point in your process. No one will have a problem with that.

I don't think I'm missing the point at all. I feel like my update post would cause an issue, regardless of if I'm accepted as "real". It's the current atmosphere that worries me, not the validity of what I want to share. I'm holding back because if a non-transitioner comments, she'll be torn to shreds in this environment.

The whole tenor of the forum has shifted in the last few days, from what I experienced in the previous month. I don't feel like this is a safe place right now, which is why I'm not commenting as much as I'd want to. Maybe it's because I'm still very new here, though, and this is just part of the life cycle of the forum. I don't have enough experience here to have a valid opinion about it, I guess.

[LeaP]

Frances is giving one example of the type of negative outcome (and one source) that I see also.

Abby, your impression is important. Question is, do you see it as a consequence of the breadth of topics and participants?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I don't think I'm missing the point at all. I feel like my update post would cause an issue, regardless of if I'm accepted as "real". It's the current atmosphere that worries me, not the validity of what I want to share. I'm holding back because if a non-transitioner comments, she'll be torn to shreds in this environment.

The whole tenor of the forum has shifted in the last few days, from what I experienced in the previous month. I don't feel like this is a safe place right now, which is why I'm not commenting as much as I'd want to. Maybe it's because I'm still very new here, though, and this is just part of the life cycle of the forum. I don't have enough experience here to have a valid opinion about it, I guess.

Comments can get torn to shreds...

its wrong to tear the commentmaker to shreds... and frankly i don't see alot of that...

also, what do you mean exactly by safe place?

you don't want to share because its unsafe..

That's an interesting thing because its a reasonable discussion to talk about the difference between sharing something because you want a hug,

sharing something because you are LOOKING FOR VALIDATION THAT YOU ARE NOT GETTING ELSEWHERE IN YOUR LIFE,

and sharing something because you genuinely want to hear other experience that can be valuable information....

[Kimberly Kael]

I've never found this to be the best forum for dealing with transition-related issues and carried out the vast majority of my own transition relying on other social spaces. Why? My first impression is that transitioners are a small minority of the overall forum. Not shocking given the domain name it's all hosted under. If you pick a thread at random from the site overall it's likely to be more rooted in fantasy. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it's not the least bit helpful for someone actively trying to integrate with society at large. That mindset spills out in other areas and you find people defending their posts here on the basis of "I can't be bothered to check what sub-forum I'm posting in." If that sounds hyperbolic, you haven't been keeping up. That's pretty much verbatim from comments in the past few months.

So no, this isn't necessarily the best place for a reality check. That doesn't stop it from being potentially useful but it does require a lot of filtering and some amount of aggressive policing is to be expected.

[Debb]

I am in transition.

I agree with Abby. Some of the recent posts have me doubting my place here; I am not officially out at work although I am out to my team-mates and other co-workers, and from a bare reading of some of the posts, it seems I'm not transitioner enough; at least, it feels that way.

It's damn intimidating to transition. It's even more intimidating to come here, a usually-safe place, and feel like my identity is being questioned.

A couple times tonight, I've chosen not to post because I don't feel like I'm valid enough. I don't really feel like having to post a mini-autobiography every time I post; it's a little too much like a kindergartner raising her hand to be allowed to speak.

[PretzelGirl]

What is interesting to me, looking at the run of posts over the last month, is we started with some level of people (small in my opinion) who posted opinions on topics they didn't have experience on and we have beat it to a pulp. It is like lighting a match in your kitchen and the fire department hosed the entire house down.

I have been told that a person having a great transition makes you hard to believe.

I have been told that my stating that being FTEFW and then transitioning and feeling that the FTEFW gave me experience that made things better wasn't true, ironically by people who never tried FTEFW (hint: talking about something they don't have experience on).

I have been told that my friend's RLE for the last year isn't RLE because she didn't get a legal name change. Even though she can't change her name because of bankruptcy and her first name is androgynous. The wanted name change was only for the middle name.

So my answer is that a few people posting on subjects they had no experience on never bothered me. They stated where they were in life, so I could take their posts in context. But the thread after thread after thread on limiting what other people's stories are is getting exhausting.

Everybody owns their own stories and NO ONE can redefine it for them. Everyone has the right to self identify and NO ONE can identify them for themselves.

[Zooey]

I'm in transition. "Full time except for work" since January. Legal name change is November 6th, and transition at work happens Friday the 13th (ugh).

I think it's been negative. Certainly it's negative when CDs end up in random threads in here "without realizing it" and derail entire conversations. When it comes to people pursuing different "degrees of transition", TG vs TS vs Caribou, etc... I think it's only negative when people start missing the point I believe Misty is trying to make.

Ask questions about things you don't have experience with, but don't speak about them declaratively. Share thoughts declaratively when they're applicable and based on experience. Be mindful of whether they're actually applicable or you just want them to be applicable, and similarly whether you're actually talking about the same experience that the discussion is. Share YOUR experiences any which way you want - just don't call them something they're not.

When people are talking about one thing, and somebody else starts talking about something completely different but using similar words, it's always confusing, generally irritating, and sometimes infuriating. This is what I hear in my head when threads go south because of that...

"I find that pumpkins have quite a lot of seeds, which is why in my experience if you're going to eat them then it's really helpful to have a spare bowl to put them in."

"I don't agree with that, because in my experience horse-drawn carriages are rather superior to sports cars. I think carriages are effectively identical to pumpkins though (I saw a movie once), and I've got quite a lot of experience with THEM. That's why I come here to make sure you pumpkin eaters hear about which spokes you should be using on your pumpkins for minimum rolling-resistance."

"Oh, for sure, and I totally understand what you're talking about with the pumpkins and the carriages and stuff because I totally deal with all of that every day too, but in my opinion ferrets make better cheese graters than carriage wheels do, which is why I'm not transitioning."

[Badtranny]

.. I think it's only negative when people start missing the point I believe Misty is trying to make.


Yeah, I'm beginning to think that I'm pretty bad at making a point because I feel like I keep saying the same stuff and people still keep misunderstanding me.

Why bother with the name change or coming out at work when you can just come here and insist that none of that matters?

Anyhoo, I'm bored of this whole discussion. If people want to pretend they are not in the closet then what do I care? I won't participate of course but I wish them well in their dual lives.

...and for those that think I'm some kind of bully, good luck in the real world. I'm literally a puff of wind compared to the hate that awaits a transitioner.

[Eryn]

I'm in transition.

For me the effect is negative.

I've had some milestones and experiences that were significant to me and might have been of interest to others in my situation. I've chosen not to share them. The usual reaction to such posts is critical, not supportive, which would have a chilling effect on anyone's desire to talk about their experiences.

Edit: I'd like to add that it isn't criticism of the milestone or experience that deters me, but the possibility that what I say, often taken out of context, will be used for personal attacks on me.

I like to talk about issues, but when someone resorts to attacking the person rather than the issue it is not productive.

[Michelle789]

I'm in transition too.

I feel the impact is negative.

I have experienced numerous things that illustrate the negative impact.

1. Earlier in my transition (last year), most of my experience was very positive. Some people questioned if I was real because my story sounded just way too good to be true. Let's see here. I never was in a relationship before transition, and I started my first ever relationship after coming out as trans, with a trans man. I got 4 times the amount of male attention in 4 months than some of us got in 4 years. I like to present very sterotypical feminine - dress or skirt, long hair, makeup & lipstick, stockings. Stuff that was made for women yet some people believe means I'm dressing like a crossdresser. Most of my friends accepted me. I lost my job before coming out at work, and two months later was re-hired as a woman. I had a seemingly smooth transition through the end of October, 2014, with very few problems and a very little mis-gendering. That all changed on November 1, 2014, when I came out to my family.

2. Like Eryn, there is stuff that I didn't post out of fear of getting a negative response.

3. I had dealt with the worst of the mis-gendering in year 2 rather than year 1. Namely, June-July 2015. Unbelievable, but yes, that's what happened to me.

4. I haven't yet legally changed my name or gender. I haven't done so because I'm literally torn about whether or not to keep my birth last name or to change it.

5. I disagree with some of the rigidity I've seen here, and I constantly defend those transgender people who don't into rigid stereotypes of what you should look like, identify as, dress like, behave like, what medical procedures you should or should not do, how slowly or fast you should transition, and certainly I defend those who haven't legally changed their name and gender - mostly because most of us who have't usually have a sound reason we haven't. Many can't afford to pay the court fees, which are $700 in Los Angeles County, or have to deal with bigoted judges who refuse to change name or gender for a transgender person.

@Misty - no one is saying the legal name or gender change doesn't matter. It definitely matters, and I have heard numerous times that changing your name & gender can significantly relieve the dysphoria. The fact of the matter is many people are unable to change their name and/or gender for various reasons, some of which are very personal circumstances. Some people will never change their name or gender because of financial obstacles or bigoted judges. Others will eventually change their name and gender, but it happens later. It happens when it's supposed to happen. Apparently, some people believe that you have to do it, and you have to do it now. Sounds like alcoholic / addict behavior to me.

[Gerrijerry]

Being TS and now a full woman. I do not post as much as I used to.
Going through transition is not easy. So many people are effected by what we do with our lives. All of the people who knew us as males are asked to accept us as females. Some do , some don't, some simple don't care.
The support system that we reach out for is mostly lacking the ability to understand what we are actually dealing with. A few counselors do understand, most do not but try to help anyway. On line there are simple too many that think they know but don't , while trying to give advise. They are only doing what they think is the right thing to do and say.
We all must accept the fact that it is really a very personal and dramatic change we make in our lives. Each person has a slightly different way of handing the most difficult time in their lives.
I remember so many years of crying to sleep at night. Wanting to just be understood, as a person not as TS or whatever most want to label us as.
Even now as a retired person who moved to another state to just be me. I feel the pain of others who have to go through what is and what will be.
I wish every one a great life and lots of time to live it.

[Janice Ashton]

I'm in Transition living full time, working full time;

I'm thinking this site maybe no longer for me and I've been here since 2006. It's lost its way!!! Some people are not very nice and as a UK member at times I feel alienated;

I'm sure someone will chip in with goodbye!!! Thats how it feels... It used to be supportive but sadly I don't feel it so these days.

[becky77]

I must admit I feel a little alienated also at times, there definitely seems to be a clique.

And unless I say how aweful a time I'm having, my threads are just ignored. It is what it is but I feel disliked and I have no idea why. I think people see my name and don't even read what I say.

Still you gotta toughen up to transition, you learn pretty quickly to not be harmed by what others think. If you're TS face it you're an outcast.

We pick on the middle-pathers or long transitioners but they are the ones contributing the most, I bet if we had a Transition only forum it would go very quiet.

[Nigella]

I'm 2 years Post op, but 8 years transitioned. I changed name, started working, paid my dues and lived 24/7 for almost 4 years before I even sought medical assistance to "medically" transition.

Through out my time on this forum I have seen many arguments, both for and against transition, there have been many views on what transition is, but each and every view is valid, to a point. Due to the lack of intimacy in the postings of others, I tend to take things at face value, having said that I do find it frustrating when those with no experience on the topic in discussion, believe that their comments are as valid as someone who has dealt with the issue.

I will never say someones opinion is not valid, that is their right, but without knowing for sure, you also cannot say, unless they have previously stated they have no experience, that their contribution is invalid. So I guess, what has been written on these forums, by any member, has had no influence on my final decision, but whether the contribution is valid due to experience, or invalid due to never having done it, each point has been instrumental in helping me reach MY decision,

[Kaitlyn Michele]

And unless I say how aweful a time I'm having, my threads are just ignored.

When was the last time you had a long discussion with anyone about how great your day was going?!!!!! LOL...

i notice this too...its kind of a toughie because there is so much trouble swimming around many of us its hard to say really good things sometimes

[Nigella]

It has been commented before that those who have an "easy" path, if there is such a one, tend not to post. Maybe it is simply because we have got on with things and there is no drama. I think that sometimes, those who are having a rough time, do not believe that there is an easy way, maybe when they get to a point in time where there is no more drama, they can accept that a transition is not all doom and gloom. I wonder how many have discounted the good things that have happened in their transition, just to concentrate on the bad

[PaulaQ]

I've transitioned.

I am contacted from time to time by people who are also in transition, or strongly considering entering it. Many times the range of discussion on this forum, in particular, the tone of some of the responses from further progressed in transition trans women, and particularly threads like the aforementioned thread from Misty make them feel highly unwelcome here. I've received a decent number of such messages over the past two and a half years.

This is highly negative, in my opinion. The topics / responses that are basically noise from people who aren't in transition yet, or who aren't sure yet, or who are just starting out are not the problem, at least based on feedback I've received in PMs. They are neither positive or negative in and of themselves, but are positive for some in that they are able to try to reach out, however crudely, for support. The problem, as expressed to me, is the attitudes of a number of us here. Some people starting out or who are struggling in transition end up feeling less than - exactly the people we should reach out to.

The fundamental problem is that it is impossible to differentiate between someone who will come out to themselves soon from someone who's a closeted CD who'll never consider transition outside of fantasy. Driving all such people away leaves some of us abandoned who need help.

If the purpose of this forum is to only provide support for long transitioned, often relatively privileged, trans women who've met a bunch of transitional goals, but there is no support for people just starting out, or who don't quite get it yet, then this is place is a pretty useless exercise in mental masturbation, for the most part, in my opinion.

[Angela Campbell]

I'm a postie. Guess that qualifies.

The threads here sometimes intrest me sometimes not. Being a forum for transexual experience I have little intrest in threads about mixed gender or gender fluid, or anything other than transexual issues. Being transexual and not being able to transition is one issue that is appropriate, but living in the middle with no intention of transition isn't.

I'm also not much on the hooray for you threads either. I want to read and sometimes comment on transexual issues. I like that there are some here who try to keep it real, even if sometimes blunt. I've been here a while, and I transitioned while coming here, I've seen the ones with real experience and the ones having a fantasy. I've also seen the ones with no intention of transitioning, and the ones who think gender fluid is the same thing as a transexual who is.

I scan the threads and read the ones that intrest me.

[LeaP]

Quite a consensus.

The positive/negative meme deserves to be addressed. Losses receive deserved attention because the difficulty in overcoming losses outweighs the gains brought by positives, considered neutrally. In a bicycle race where half the course is uphill and half downhill, who wins and who loses - the person who climbs faster, or the person who descends faster? The answer is the better climber, and it's all about the disproportionate impact of losses.

So, in a forum nominally FOR transsexuals, what could possibly be a worse outcome than the topic of transition - of all things - being problematic?

[Zooey]

The interesting thing to me is that most everybody perceived the current situation as negative, but the reasons for that were all over the map.

[Kate T]

So, in a forum nominally FOR transsexuals, what could possibly be a worse outcome than the topic of transition - of all things - being problematic?
Censorship and a denial of discussion of the topic at all??

I think we are all getting a little tired of the "what defines transition" arguments. Perhaps as Becky said, we should turn our attention to some more positive aspects of transition and experiences? We all agree transition isn't "easy" but we all also do it so there must be some positives. Perhaps we should be talking about those (and not just the old "I can finally live with myself" version of positives. I mean concrete, feel good stories that give people something to hope for and strive towards).

Sorry. Just went Full-time. Yes, I qualify to comment because well, don't we all if we are going to be bothered answering this thread?

[becky77]

When was the last time you had a long discussion with anyone about how great your day was going?!!!!! LOL...


Well I did have a great holiday, but I know no one wants to hear that, so my 'Holiday blues' thread was a highlight of some of the stress of transitioning in place.
The other thing to consider on here, is that I share my good stuff with family and friends on Facebook or face to face, but those people don't understand the tough part of living as TS, so I come here for that part, where their is understanding. Then get ignored lol.

Last weekend I went into London and went to see Jersey Boys in the theatre with friends. There isn't really anything relevant in that for TS discussion.
Unless you say actually I'm doing everyday things and integrating into society, living full-time is beginning to normalise and I let go and had fun.

Misty mentioned about celebrating being authentic and out there, but truth is this forum isn't interested in celebrating, because celebrating becomes linked to 'you go girl' and next thing we are being called out for not respecting the hardships of those having a tougher time.

You really can't win!

[PretzelGirl]

We should never be told not to celebrate! I see more having a good or relatively good transition. Things are getting better and we should be able to say it. It doesn't marginalize the issues many/most face. We do recognize all the issues. It is analogous to "care for the whole self". Every bit needs recognition and attention.

[Lorileah]

Wow. Requisite background. Transitioning 2.5 years, Pre-surgical (6 more months)

Kind of in a different world here because I mod the CDs. So my time is mostly spent there. And I see threads go off the rails all the time. I have probably done that in my time on this forum. I don't post here mostly because I am having a positive transformation. Yes there are speed bumps but they are mostly things that I either feel everyone already has experienced in the TS world OR they are really things that I don't need to share.

I guess I haven't seen all the negativity. I see people who have legitimate fears or questions and maybe they aren't communicating them well. But this is an open area of the forum so I expect people to wander in here. People who aren't aware or who THINK they know how it should be. I spend a lot of time trying to reinforce the fact that you don't HAVE to change your name or take hormones or have surgery or whatever to be a TS. Mostly because I walked that path not so long ago knowing who I was but not expressing it in the TS areas because I became a target for "NO Trans enough". I thought I was a non-op, non-hormone and happy...ooops. To be fair, this forum has helped me get where I am. I credit a group of people who were here then, many gone on. Now I do agree there is a lot of sniping going on (and there are some in this area who do that maybe not realizing it?). But to answer the OP, I find there is more positive than negative. Maybe because I am a buffet reader here. My opinion of this section of the forum is that it is open to everyone. Safe Harbor is where you go to air your fears and worries and yes...triumphs for the specific TS members.

[Rachel Smith]

Please respond only if you are a "transsexual transitioner" - here meaning that you have socially transitioned, or have taken steps in your public life to do so.

Does the current focus and range of discussion in the Transsexual Forum materially affect discussions important to transition or transitioners?

I have transitioned.

At one point we were all at different places on the spectrum of transition. From just wondering if it would be right for us, like me at when I first came here, to those that had completed their transition, like me now. This road is rocky enough w/o any bickering among ourselves sometimes just for the sake of an argument it seems sometimes. Everyone at some point was at step zero.

I do believe if I had come here in the last little while I surely wouldn't have stayed. When I first came here I needed guidance and advice, which I received and appreciated btw. With all the in-fighting going on here now the idea of helping someone has seemed to take a back seat. I hardly post here anymore because of the hostile environment that is present. There are days now when I don't even come here to read the posts anymore.

So to me it is a BIG negative affect.

Rachel

[becky77]

What's changed then?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

...............

I do believe if I had come here in the last little while I surely wouldn't have stayed. When I first came here I needed guidance and advice, which I received and appreciated btw. With all the in-fighting going on here now the idea of helping someone has seemed to take a back seat. I hardly post here anymore because of the hostile environment that is present. There are days now when I don't even come here to read the posts anymore......

It's a shame you feel this way...

...your characterization of this place as "hostile" is lazy and just perpetuates a myth....this myth is big part of the problem... i'm not being hostile, i'm being honest and direct.. care should be taken with all posts

did you ever even once have a person attack you personally? anybody ever act hostile towards you?

if you cared to notice look at the threads... look at the huge outpouring of support for almost ANY post that truly is made looking for help.... this is true over and over again as the same people patiently and thoughfully try to share experience

and if sometimes the advice is hard to accept, that is not a hostile thing...that's just the way it is... hugs are fine but we can't all be huggers..

a couple of arguments and people trying to further meaningful discussion, popular or not, is not a hostile environment...

[Eryn]

It's a shame you feel this way...

...your characterization of this place as "hostile" is lazy and just perpetuates a myth....this myth is big part of the problem... i'm not being hostile, i'm being honest and direct.. care should be taken with all posts...

This response itself is a good example. Rachel is immediately attacked as being "lazy" simply because she pointed out a problem.

If this is how established members feel coming here, imagine how a newbie feels after their first, and probably only, visit.

Honesty and directness are poor justifications for rudeness.

[Badtranny]

Honesty and directness are poor justifications for rudeness.

Absolutely true.

...except Kaitlyn wasn't being rude and I don't think I'm ever rude either. I love her 'hugger' analogy. We can't all be huggers, and I will admit to not being a hugger. I have friends that are, and they're delightful, but it's just not in me.

Also, isn't it possible that a lot of these complaints are mostly about just not liking me? I think that's probably closer to the truth and if that's the case, it's only a matter of time before they realize I'm only a messenger.

[Zooey]

When I want somebody to make me feel better about something, I don't ask for advice or guidance. I ask them for a hug, a pat on the back, to tell me I'm right, or I just start bitching and my friends are perceptive enough to not call me on stuff for a bit.

When I ask people for advice or guidance, it's because I think they may have experience I don't, information I don't, or I need an outside perspective to tell me if I'm too close to something to see it. I expect to be told I'm at least partially wrong. If I was certain I was right, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.

When I invite or engage in debate, I have to accept that we're talking about the relative value of ideas and the soundness of the logical foundation on which they were formed - not the people who currently hold them. I have to expect the same from the other participants, and I also have to expect that if I try to make a lazy or cheap argument then I will be called out on it. That's fair and necessary in debate.

I don't think I've ever seen anybody who came in here looking for a pat on the back or a sympathetic ear be treated badly. This community is great at pats on the back, especially considering it's on the internet.

I've seen lots of people come here to ask for advice and/or debate and get offended at the, frankly, natural follow-ups. Everybody, on all sides of the discussion, need to be fair and respectful, but don't ask for advice or debate if you just want to be told you're right, or to have your message stand unanswered as some sort of high holy truth. If somebody calls out your argument as "lazy", "wrong", etc. and you disagree, then prove them wrong. Telling them they shouldn't call things like that out, or trying to dismiss it as "mean" or "insulting", serves only to weaken your own position.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

thank you..

===========
Rude??
what's rude is to call somebody rude when they are clearly not..

i will be very specific..i used the word lazy on purpose and carefully...

what's lazy is to buy into a false narrative and then claim it makes you not want to post..what's lazy is to harp on a false narrative and make it much more scary than it actually is..
especially when in fact you have been helped alot here..its self righteous and lazy and it hurts people...

i really am sorry if anybody feels afraid... we just had some posts break thru the initial fear and they got unconditional support...

and why do i care??
here's why... newbies read it...lurkers read it and think 'hmmm...i am afraid to post..."... and that's just flat out wrong, and its counter productive and its not even true!!!!!

almost everybody that asks questions and almost everybody that shares experience gets totally supported and is unconditionally accepted.... that's the truth... and saying anything else just means you are not paying attention..
and when it doesnt play out that way, it gets worked out..

some folks feel wronged or hurt no matter what is said...sorry i can't worry about that.....

[Badtranny]

some folks feel wronged or hurt no matter what is said...sorry i can't worry about that.....

OMG RUDE!

and Zooey is one to talk. Just yesterday I mentioned a little gig I was playing at a friend's party, and she told me to "break a leg"!

Can you believe that? Then she started backtracking of course. "figure of speech"? Right, how about just passive aggressive rudeness masquerading as "friendship"?

[Debb]

Absolutely true.

...except Kaitlyn wasn't being rude and I don't think I'm ever rude either. I love her 'hugger' analogy. We can't all be huggers, and I will admit to not being a hugger. I have friends that are, and they're delightful, but it's just not in me.

Also, isn't it possible that a lot of these complaints are mostly about just not liking me? I think that's probably closer to the truth and if that's the case, it's only a matter of time before they realize I'm only a messenger.

I for one like you, Melissa. I've always found your posts to be full of truth. Sometimes the truth hurts.

[KayMcLaughlin]

I'm in transition, although I'm very much a neophyte compared to many folks here. :)

It's a "me issue", not a "her issue".

Anyway... I don't know that there is an easy answer to the problems people are mentioning. There are so many definitions of transition and transitioning and transgender and transexual that it seems hard to get more than two people to agree, sometimes. I see arguments over things that really, don't feel like they are worth arguing over. One person having Experience X does not invalidate someone else who's having Experience Y.

If the concern is over CD folks expressing opinions on things they have not really experienced, perhaps there ought to be a private TS forum? You announce your status someplace, the mods give you access... That way the only people replying are those who are actively in some state of transition - whether early (like me!) or much later, even post-transition and just out there living life.

(I'm sure that's been discussed before, just mentioning it as an option as I hadn't seen it recently. Apologies if it's been gone over and is a dead horse for some reason! :) )

[LeaP]

OP ...

Flinging accusations or defending isn't good enough. WHY are there such differences in the experience here? I posited the range and type of discussions. It must be something concrete. Opinion can't be so fundamentally polarized on the basis on perceptions of tone alone. Not with such a range of personalities involved.

[Zooey]

If the concern is over CD folks expressing opinions on things they have not really experienced, perhaps there ought to be a private TS forum? You announce your status someplace, the mods give you access... That way the only people replying are those who are actively in some state of transition - whether early (like me!) or much later, even post-transition and just out there living life.

(I'm sure that's been discussed before, just mentioning it as an option as I hadn't seen it recently. Apologies if it's been gone over and is a dead horse for some reason! :) )

You're not wrong, and it actually already exists, although the requirements for entry are not really conducive to people who are questioning, or (like yourself) uncomfortable with making a public declaration of status. The problem with that approach then, or at least a problem with that approach, is that it then takes all of (what should be) the valuable discussions out of the public eye. A lot of the women here keep coming here because they want to pay forward all of the honest advice and information they received (either actively or passively) here earlier in their journeys.

So we have a problem - we want most of our discussions VISIBLE, but some of us also don't want them disrupted, at least as we see it. That's not a situation that currently exists, but might be worth pursuing more formally if possible. The conversations we've been having about what constitutes responsible participation here may be attempting a people solution to what may actually just be, at least in part, a technical problem.

I don't know, but I agree that it's potentially worth considering.

[KayMcLaughlin]

Well, I guess I sort of got over not making a public declaration. :) Times change, and I'm more than a little past that point now.

But yeah - for people who are still trying to figure things out, and are terrified about the whole process (I don't think that's too strong a word to use, sometimes!) having access to others would help.

[Thea Pauline]

Does the current focus and range of discussion in the Transsexual Forum materially affect discussions important to transition or transitioners?

Requested Trans* Disclaimer - I have lived as a woman exclusively for two+ years and cannot imagine any other way; I do not support a gender binary, but I fit within it. HRT for 3 years; GRS within 12 months, gender markers changed where possible, legal obstacles to name change resolved and name change is in process within last month. Fortunate in that FFS is not an absolute requirement, but being investigated. I still have my own hair and teeth. I'm a Taurus. My favorite color is green. That should cover whether or not I'm transitioned; you decide.

During my time here, I have frequently avoided posting because of the friction and outright hostility to ideas that I have seen. As I began to admit to myself what should have been clear 50 years ago, I needed a sounding board, not a critique. That is not always possible here, so where I can, I tease out the meaning behind needlessly harsh comments and try to understand the motivations and causes of the bitterness I hear.

I am quite familiar with the outcast label, for many aspects of my personal life framework are minority viewpoints, so I have developed independence. As I have come more fully into myself these past few years, I have realized that this particular forum is at times hostile to beginners whose opinions will change as they self discover. If someone is trying on aspects of a new identity and simultaneously struggling with all that entails in society, is it right to criticize their color choices, or the order in which they dress?

I am not offended now, as I know we all have different modes of communication, but in the beginning I was.

[Rachel Smith]

It's a shame you feel this way...

...your characterization of this place as "hostile" is lazy and just perpetuates a myth....this myth is big part of the problem... i'm not being hostile, i'm being honest and direct.. care should be taken with all posts

did you ever even once have a person attack you personally? anybody ever act hostile towards you?

if you cared to notice look at the threads... look at the huge outpouring of support for almost ANY post that truly is made looking for help.... this is true over and over again as the same people patiently and thoughfully try to share experience

and if sometimes the advice is hard to accept, that is not a hostile thing...that's just the way it is... hugs are fine but we can't all be huggers..

a couple of arguments and people trying to further meaningful discussion, popular or not, is not a hostile environment...

No Kaitlyn. No one has ever attacked me personally or acted hostile towards me personally. At least not until this post and don't take that personal. I have as much respect for you and Melissa both at least as much as one can have without really meeting someone. I stated my opinion which I do believe I and all here were ask for by LeaP and you think my opinion is lazy. My opinion just like yours is not lazy they are just our opinions neither one is more right then the other. I have however seen quite a few daggers thrown at others and not being much of a boat rocker I would rather be silent then take an active part.

I have never even received advice that I considered harsh or hard to accept. That advice wasn't always what I wanted to hear but that doesn't mean it wasn't good advice. If I only want to hear what I want to hear I would just talk to myself.

Going back under my rock now
Rachel

[Aprilrain]

Wow, if you think this place is hostile now clearly you were not around five years ago! It was the Wild West. My very first post in the TS section I Had my head cut off for insinuating that I might order hormones online without a prescription. The words "thick skin" were tossed around quite often and every third post was by some douch bag who just had to bring up their gun. I can't remember the last time someone was temporarily banned let alone permanently banned from the site and that was a regular occurrence! lets just say there were a lot of ....."personalities" it was quite entertaining actually.
Let's pretend Misty's the worst thing we got going on right now (love you M) she's like a box rainbow colored unicorn kittens compared to our dearly departed (banned for life) Kate. She wasn't the only gem, No sir! We were "blessed"
Ahh, the good old days.

It's cliche but kinda true, if you're afraid to post here because you might not hear what you want, then you're just not ready for the hardships that likely await you in the real world once you start to transition. The truth is most people take a real hit when they transition, if you haven't, consider yourself lucky! (Or early in the process). I can't think of anyone here now who would attack or belittle a person or their honestly ask question or shared experience. It's unsolicited wrong headed opinions that get shot down, and rightly so.

I don't weigh in much on the heated debates because they just don't interest me that much anymore.
We can go on ad nauseum about "labels" or what transition is or isn't or who fits under the TG umbrella the fact remains that we do not get to define these things to the outside world, TV does.
The word transsexual has been replaced in the media by transgender, we're all assumed to have had or want to have surgery, F to Ms might as well not even exist and the only crossdresser who is cool is Eddy Issard, the rest are still pretty creepy.
Love to all
April

[Frances]

Is it just me or has this site become incredibly meta as of late?