Kind of a bad week

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

Firstly not looking for sympathy as I know we all have our own baggage to contend with . . . just looking to vent a bit and there seems to be a certain amount of cathartic release in writing down emotions many here can understand. I have been openly transitioning now for about a month (all cards in with the exception of hormones/surgery/legal change). For the most part things have gone well and people in my life and at work are adjusting as I am transitioning in place. However sometimes you have to take the good with the bad and when the bad hits, it really defines oneself as different from all the other children in the sandbox. This week was particularly crummy and not in a mean spirited sense but more so one of those realistic "smacks upside the head" that transition can really challenge you emotionally.

It all started on Monday when we had our quarterly "town hall meeting" at work. This is normally reserved for the SOGI (Senior Officers Good Ideas) Club to spout folksy wisdom at the rank and file. This time it was about diversity. The general went on about how the CAF needs to embrace difference, tolerance, adjust . . . get with the program and what not. I thought "good sentiment and nice to hear" and it was then that I noticed an inordinate amount of folks staring my way and it dawned on me . . . goodness I am as about as diverse as things can get in this room and even the general was beginning to look more in my direction while he spoke. I felt completely vulnerable and on display and while the sentiment was great . . . it only helped to point out my difference. The rest of the day people (and this could just be my own paranoia) treated me much differently almost as if they were afraid of insulting me. Very uncomfortable.

Flash forward to a few days later and I was working out in the building's gym. While I wear female workout attire I don't go to great lengths to hide my male physiology because it would be too restrictive. It is my body and I just work out as such. So let's just say a bit bigger than your average woman. I had gone to get a drink of water and which was around the corner from the women's bathroom and I overheard two younger women talking (civilian employees). One started by saying "Did you see the freak out there?" to which the other replied "Yeah, that is just perverse but you know policy and we have to treat it with respect" I so wanted to say something but I felt paralyzed and sad at the same time so I just left and went back to work. To be honest is bothered me the rest of the day and I wish I had held them to task but I just could not. After work I met some friends for some socializing and hopefully to take my mind off of things. One friend whom I had known for a long time was distant and so I asked him if he was okay. His response was "Look, I get you have to do what you need to do and I thought I was okay with it but I can't do this anymore. I will work with you, act professionally but I don't want to socialize with you anymore" at which point he got up and left. It ripped my heart out of my chest and I felt like I was spinning out of emotional control so I went to the bathroom to compose myself. A woman was in there and she looked at me funny but I did not think much about it. When I came out the bar manager was there and she asked me if I was a man. I replied that I was a woman to which she replied that while that may be how I see myself, I was however making the female patrons uncomfortable by using the ladies and she asked I not do so again. When I explained to her that I have the legal right to do so she asked me to leave. All this was done in earshot of a table of young men and women (including the one from the bathroom) all staring earnestly in my direction. Emotionally I had nothing so I just collected my coat and left, all to the applause and laughter of that table.

So here I sit after a particularly crummy week kind of emotionally drained. I always thought I was just me and this kind of opened my eyes that I am no longer just me but have been redefined as different by my decision to transition and while sometimes that can be a comfort, it can also be a curse. Not to mention some stoic moron brought his flu to work and promptly gave it to everyone including me and my face feels like raw hamburger after my latest round of laser. Arg . . . sometimes you have to take the bad with the good but it doesn't mean you have to like it.

Marcelle

[PretzelGirl]

Marcelle, that is a terrible run of events. I don't blame you for not calling the women out. Sometimes this is exhausting and you have to back into self care instead of playing the educator. Give yourself some good down time today. You are here today and you are being you. That is always a great start! :hugs:

[becky77]

Sorry to hear that Marcelle, that's the real life of a Trans-woman and it sucks!

'Freak' and 'It' are so hurtful as if we are not even human, it hurts because ultimately we have no idea just how many people think of us like that behind our back.

Never mind I'm sure all those hidden crossdressers at your work will come out to give you their support, because of course we are all in the same boat, under the same umbrella!

I've had friends do that to me, but never the toilet issue, I wouldn't know what to do.
Problem is years of feeling shame can rob you of the strength to deal with a situation like that. It doesn't help our cause to just take it, but I would feel too dejected to offer any resistance either.

We are very vulnerable.

Take care and I hope next week something good happens for you.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I hope next week is much better...

Many of us have experienced our own versions of a bad run of it and made it through! You can do it too!!!

I had a friend say a very similar thing not even as nice as yours...i can feel the hurt of it even today but his reaction is not the typical reaction of most people

[stefan37]

This is the essence of transition. It leaves us naked and exposed. Emotionally it drains us. Unless you are genetically gifted or extremely effeminate, it takes years to eliminate the male aura we exude. It follows us after breast augmentation and facial reconstruction. But since living authentically is needed. We will experience blowback, hurt and loss.
Except for a very small minority, none of us escape unscathed.

You will experience better times and not so great times over the next few years. You may feel as if you are riding the world's largest roller coaster.
But those times that are great will remind you why your decision to live authentically is the right one.

[Shads_Firehawk]

That is awful and I am sorry it happened to you. I think you handled it very well even if you did not say anything at the time. I hope next week will be better for you.

[Debb]

I am so sorry Marcelle. I'm sure things will improve, and although the emotional toll has been very high, you will bounce back more determined than ever.

[Jennifer-GWN]

Marcelle; when it rains sometimes it pours and you got a drenching this week the trifecta. Oh dear.

I'm not surprised you suddenly became the elephant in the room when the discussion of diversity came up at work. You're very prominent and visible so naturally when this topic is discussed you'll likely be the center of attention. My HR team suggested that I don't participate in such situations I'm guessing specifically for that outcome as much as I'd like to be seen as a leader and guide. I can do this in more privately and in more controlled situations. Tough lesson learned there.

Your body is your body. Be proud of it. The gym situation was pure and simple disrespect. You'll need to choose which of these situations are worth fighting and which are not. If, and I stress if, at some point in the future hormones becomes a discussion that will bring with it some degre of bodily reshaping. My measurements continue to adjust down with upper body size and strength a big piece.

A big Umph and a corresponding hug on the friendship and bar situation. That's tough. It's often been said that you'll really find out who your friends are when your transition becomes public. I had one of those conversations and thought for sure that was it. We remained comversatent and over time we are back to where we were so in this situation give it time and see how things progress. Everyone processes this stuff differently.

The bar manager, in the washroom situation, was both ignorant and a duffas. First he should know the rights, second could have handled it in a more private way but these are situations that can't be avoided. Yes they'll get under your skin but I've learned to put how to put on a pretty heavy coat of Teflon and move on with the confidence of knowing who I am. Never hurts to remind someone with an ID indicating F when the situation warrants (for duffas's that need a bit of "in your face a-hole" but only after a calm patient exchange is attempted).

I have vowed to not be a victim of my transition. Those who know me know I'm strong on the outside but can be fragile and hard on myself on the inside.

Youre a tough women, one with a lot of character and resolve. Things come in 3's... Smooth sailing ahead.

Happy to talk or chat anytime as it never hurts to have some one just offload and share similar experiences with someone who understands the situation completely. Digital door is always open. Casa Jennifer's motto... If you can get here...you will be fed �� (As I channel my mom and both my grandmothers... Ask around the food service is pretty good here...hhaha)

All my best... Jennifer

[KellyJameson]

If you Google the phrase "Victim of collective hate" the very first result and many more after are about trans murders and violence.

Not violence because of ethnicity, sexuality, religion or nationality but gender identity.

Gender non conformity elicits a visceral reaction. I often wonder how many late transitioners absorbed so much hate for being different as children that they conformed until they could conform no more. It would explain why there is so much self destructive behavior among trans people. The hate and rejection is turned inward against the self.

It is difficult to understand the hate as an adult but impossible as a child and self blame becomes almost a given.

"It" is a word commonly used among the non trans to describe trans people who are obviously trans.

For the vast majority of people there is no such thing as gender identity as separated from the body. The body in its "natural state" determines gender because the body is sexed by "nature" so to be trans is to be unnatural.

I belief this myself and why I could not live half way or in between but see transitioning as an attempt to get as close as possible to what I think of as a normative state of being.

It is very easy for me to understand cis revulsion and disgust because these are familiar feelings I had with my own circumstances but from a different perspective. I don't agree with the hate and cruelty but I understand the disgust.

It has been my experience that to live in-between either by circumstances or choice is very dangerous because of the deep subconscious fear it provokes in others. I'm not sure this fear can be socialized out of people.

I think it is tied to the survival instinct to tightly. Much how people will move away from someone they think has a contagious disease that they think will sicken or kill them if they are exposed to it. Parents often do not want their children around trans people because they fear their children will be influenced and mentally infected.

Watching documentaries on the hysteria of the AIDs epidemic reminds me of the hysteria currently surrounding the trans "moment"

Conformity lessens existential anxieties. Many will see what you are doing and to justify their hate will blame you. They will say amongst themselves that you are doing it for attention or to game the system, added to the usual reasoning that you must be mentally ill.

Anything that keeps you in that in between place marks you as different. The trans community is largely made up of those in this in between place so they form a community of outsiders for safety and companionship.

They largely do not have any choice but to be part of this community while others actively participate to push against the instinctive fears that provoke so much hate and violence in the world through being different.

You have stepped into a hidden war that is and always has been fought.

When the need to be as you know yourself to be is greater than the need to stay alive you transition into this conflict and hopefully out of it while remaining in it.

Even being on the other side fully immersed and invisible still leaves you seeing the world from a perspective only the transitioned know. One foot is on each shore as you watch the water rushing between your legs.

Every single human being is a participant in this conflict whether they know it or not. It is only how they participate that is different.

[Nigella]

As much as we would like to have a smooth ride on our journey, very few of us will, 99.9% will have some form of setback. We must accept that people have their own personal opinions, which they are entitled to. I expect that when individuals are dealing with me, they do so in a respectful manner, however, I am under no illusion that out of sight, out of mind is a different matter.

You have had a Lemony Snicket week, but with your strength you will bound back and use the experience to become stronger :hugs:

[Badtranny]

wow, that's a hell of a week.

Your description of listening to the speech while slowly realizing they were talking about you is priceless. Though most have us have always felt different, we have nonetheless become accustomed to not BEING different. Sometimes due to herculean efforts to not BE different, and now that we have accepted ourselves, we have to face the hard fact that we are NOW most certainly different.

You overheard the gals chatting about you behind your back, but the only thing unusual there is that you heard them. I posted a similar story in my first year when two women walked by me and I heard one of them whisper "that's a guy". It was out of the blue and it hit me much harder than I could have expected.

Note to future whisperers; whispers are supposed to be quiet, don't whisper so damn loudly that the person you're whispering about can hear you.

Hang in there, I can't say it get's easier, but your hearing and peripheral vision does tend to get a little bit worse everyday.

[Dana44]

Sorry to hear that Marcelle. Take it as a grain of salt. I know it hurts. but you are the brave one. Know that it is the others that are in conflict with themselves. Maybe not in gender but in their own Narcissus way of thinking and the fact that they have no self confidence and say those things to be heard. They are the sad folks who do not know neither victory or defeat. Yep Teddy said it. They are the sad cold souls who walk through life. Yep he said it right. So take care of yourself and know that you are the brave one.

[Donnagirl]

Feel for you girl... As I posted recently we all seem to hit this negativity once things start to become real, especially for work colleagues. After my little run in, the boss was all for a fire and brimstone lecture to the masses about tolerance. Thankfully I was able to head that one off at the pass. Those who did upset/insult me are already aware of the error of thier ways and are almost uncomfortably 'nice' to me. The insincerity is so clear...

I'm just chalking it up to occupational hazard for transitioners. It's not nice, not pleasant but the alternative is far worse.

Here's hoping things get better from here :-)

[Zooey]

Marcelle, I'm so sorry to hear about all of that. It may come with the territory for the time being, but that doesn't make it right or any easier to deal with.

If there's one thing I know from your threads though, it's that you're an incredibly strong, brave person. You will win out in the end. You'll shake this off and emerge stronger than before, while the people who hurt you will still be sad, small, and scared.

[flatlander_48]

M:

Geez, not a good week at all. Some are better than others, but sorry this one had to be so bad.

There is a parallel to what you mentioned in regards to the coming out process for lesbians, gays and bisexuals. That is, coming out is a continual process, but we do not have infinite resources (time, energy, interest, etc.). Therefore we are forced to pick and choose the situations that are potentially the most useful. We can't fix everything and we can't change every mind; it just isn't possible.

So, when you overhear a conversation as you did, things come to mind like:

Is it worth the time and effort to correct someone's thinking?
Is there a reasonable probability of success?
Could I make the situation worse?

Anyway, just things to consider...


Regarding diversity, what many don't understand is that a good idea or a timely and appropriate action has no gender, race, nationality, sexuality, age, etc. associated with it. When diversity is purposefully limited, it effects the breadth and quality of the thoughts and solutions that you get. There isn't an organization on the face of the earth that can't benefit from a good idea, yet we often act as thought we can do without. Silly, isn't it?

All of us here are clearly dealing with sets of circumstances that are clearly outside of the usual human experience. To think that we don't bring unique perspectives, opinions, sensibilities and experiences is a BIG miss.

DeeAnn

[Eringirl]

Okay, that really sucks. Sending you a really big hug from just down the road. PM me if you like and we can chat. Those people were mean and cruel and just don't get it. I can say "fugget about it" all I want, but that easier said than done. Been there, done that. Give yourself some time to be angry and get it out of your system. In the meantime, be true to yourself and continue to be who you are. Wishing you brighter days ahead.

Erin

P.S. and yes, you have to get yourself to Casa Jennifer next time we get together. Chicken Soup for Trans women....!!!!

[Suzanne F]

Marcelle
I wish I could take the pain away for you. You have shown so much courage and have inspired many people. I think we have to remind ourselves of our triumphs when we are faced with such injuries. I am sure there are many conversations that you don't hear where people are complimenting you on your actions. I know I have cited what you have faced many times when people say what I am facing must be so hard. Please take heart and know that we are with you!
Suzanne

[Michelle789]

Marcelle,

I'm sorry to hear about what you went through last week. It sucks, and is the reality of transition. Stefan, I agree that it takes years to get rid of the male aura, and the male aura goes well beyond your physical appearance, hence why it follows you even after FFS or BA. The male aura is very much tied down to your behavior and your thinking. We literally give off vibes that we were born male just as much as we often give off vibes that we're women in men's bodies before transitioning. Before I transitioned, I passed as a full on heterosexual dude. Yet people thought I was gay or effeminate. At least three people told me they knew or suspected that I was transgender just based on vibes I gave off. That female aura that I had been carrying all my life caused people to suspect I was gay or transgender in spite of physically and vocally passing as a full on heterosexual male. Based on feedback I got from people, these vibes included

a) One girl picked up that when I looked at her, she could tell that I was not interested in her sexually, but rather interested in her clothes. This is 100% true - when I looked at a woman I'd think about being her, or would be interested in what she was wearing, and not in having sex with her. She admitted that she picked up on that when she first met me as a dude a few years ago.

b) Another woman, from my AA group, told me that I was "so feminine." She never explained what she meant. I suspect that it could have been a combination of personality as I was never terribly aggressive and never chased after women, subconscious vibes that cannot be explained but simply felt, and feminine features. I had female proportion and shaped hands and feet.

c) Another woman who is a really close friend of mine and one of my best allies told me that she felt a certain level of comfort with me that she only feels around women. Even though we were into different things at that time, we still hung out as friends and shared a close bond. She could never pinpoint why she felt that way, but she just felt it. Like I just emitted really strong subconscious vibes that I was really a woman that could not be detected visibly, audibly, or in terms of obvious personality traits.

The same thing occurs once you transition. Even if you work on your voice, get FFS, or even if you're genetically lucky and can pass as a 100% female without FFS or BA, you may still carry around a male aura and give off male vibes that people pick up on and use it to clock you. The reality is as transwomen, we carry, have carried our entire lives, and carry deep into transition if not for the rest of our lives, both male and female vibes. We carry male vibes because we were born as males, raised as males, and suffered through decades of testosterone poisoning. We carry female vibes because we are female. This is why you see transwomen who look and sound completely feminine, and they even act feminine, because there are still subconscious vibes we give off that we were born male. Male features and voice could definitely give you away, as could male mannerisms. But sometimes it's just holding on to a certain part of your male persona and not letting it go, and people subconsciously pick up on that. It could be some male mannerisms or movements, or was in which we think like a man still. People can clock us because of all of this.

Another thing is, regardless of whether or not you pass, people who knew you as a male may have trouble seeing you as a female. There are four kinds of reactions to your coming out.

1. Those who re-gender you as female right away. If you're lucky, you will have a few of these in your life, and if you're incredibly lucky, you will have lots of them in your life. These people readily accept you as you are, and will use your female name and female pronouns instantaneously. They may struggle and sometimes use your birth name or refer to you as a "he" but that's only because they knew you as a male for so many years that it's hard to change their perception of you.

2. Those who don't re-gender you as female right away, but come around later on. You may see people who off the bat don't accept you, and may still refer to you by your male name or male pronouns initially, because they still think of you as male. But later on down the road, after they've had time to mull over this, or maybe after seeing Caitlyn Jenner come out, or after you start looking more and more female that they just can't see a male any more, or maybe because they feel pressured or influenced by everyone else who is re-gendering you as female to do so, they will start to call you by your female name and female pronouns.

3. Those who say "we accept you" right away, and then later on decide that they don't accept you. Sadly, there are too many of these people we encounter, and they are one of the reasons why so many of us desire passing privilege. It's not just safety, but so we can avoid being rejected, mocked, or mistreated by the people who tell us they accept us for being trans, but their actions speak louder than their words and they are really transphobic. People in this category who knew us as male often leave us later on in our transition, often months or years after we come out to them.

4. Those who will never accept or re-gender us. Sadly, there are plenty of them too. I have more respect for these people than the ones in category 3, because they have the balls to admit right away that they don't like us for being transgender. Unfortunately, some of these people will take their transphobia a step further than simply leaving us as friends. Some will mock us, call us freaks, ask us not to use the women's restrooms. They may be like your former friends who told you that at first he could go along with this and that now he will act professionally around you but can no longer socialize with you. Some of them may give you a big lecture and try to talk you out of transitioning, or they may tell you that you're going to hell, or give you some b.s. that you could just be a gay man. Extreme cases can lash out with violence against us.

Unfortunately, when we first come out, we probably don't pass, and when dealing with people who knew us as a male for years, they can have serious difficulty accepting us. And transphobia can be really brutal in the military or in male dominated occupations.

Marcelle, I wish I could give you a big hug, and I know it sucks. I have endured my own crap. From my father. From a transphobic old friend who told me that I have untreated aspergers and should stop taking hormones and treat aspergers first; he told me that I should consider living as a gay man too. I have also endured people calling me sir or otherwise mis-gendering me, although I was lucky, because we all know it can be way worse than getting mis-gendered. I'm not saying getting mis-gendered is a walk in the park. It's not. And for someone suffering with gender dysphoria, getting mis-gendered can trigger dysphoria and makes us feel that people are denying us our own identity. But I've heard way worse crap happen to people than getting mis-gendered.

Oh, and I forgot that sometimes the trans community isn't always so supportive either. I have had a number of transwomen in my local trans community, including my church, who were not very nice to me. It may have been triggered by jealousy, their dislike for my ultra feminine style of fashion, or by their own internalized transphobia. Whatever be the cause, I have been mistreated by a number of other transwomen, sadly. This is part of the sad truth of transition. Even other trans people are sometimes against us.

Just hang in there and be strong. It can certainly be emotionally draining. I certainly felt emotionally drained at some times. But remember, you are living authentically, and don't (emotionally) let anyone take away your identity from you. You are a woman. And remember that you do have rights. And you can take legal action if anyone tries discriminating against you.

Best of luck, and please feel free to PM me if you need someone to talk to :)

[mykell]

marcelle,
was extremely disgusted by the things which you have endured this past week, your strength and professionalism during these past years have been an amazing thing to see on your journey, so many obstacles that you single handedly pushed aside and/or made progress with during this time are so commendable....knowing that better days are ahead are surely of little consequence for you at the present but they will come....i also am a big believer in karma...you have earned the respect you are due....especially at your workplace....so once you have rested an regained your health i hope that at the appropriate time, place and way that those who aimed these transgressions toward your way would see their way to "having an Isha moment" . so sorry that folks have to endure this but you will get past this in time. i look forward to reading about those better days ahead....

[Laura912]

Marcelle, I am truly sorry. There is a lovely song from the musical "South Pacific," that illustrates what you have experienced.

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!

Unfortunately, the ones you encountered are like many others who cannot cope with those things beyond their small world in which their small minds live. We here are different. Difference is not always celebrated. No verbal anesthetic will take away the pain of that encounter, just time. You will endure. You will survive. You are woman.

[LeaP]

Damn, Marcelle ... That sounds like an endless accident. The one where your tire blows, you bounce off the big rig next to you, veer off to hit the guardrail, get rear-ended and pushed into the ravine, and catch fire. You get out and start climbing only to be hit by a falling tree weakened by the impact. It's comedy when it's slapstick, or even recounting events long past. But it sure isn't when it's happening. What you described is deeply unsettling - and not just to you. I'm sorry you got hammered like that.

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

Thanks much for all your replies and support . . . it means a lot to know I am not alone. I spent the last day in survival mode reading your posts and mustering up strength to push through this little setback. I think I have found a good place now and once my three days of facial heal (damn laser) is over and I can present my ugly mug to the world sans red and bumpy I will be prepared for things armed with a bit more knowledge and resolve. I guess when it comes right down to it, curve balls like this allow us to grow and toughen our skin a bit more. I know I will have other bad days/weeks ahead of me but hopefully, I will be a bit more prepared for them or at least won't be thrown as easily.

Lea I have to admit your post brought and ear to ear smile to my face . . . the visual alone was enough to brighten my day . . . thanks :)

Again . . . thanks all.

Cheers

Marcelle

[GretchenJ]

Hey Marcelle,

I am happy to hear that you are in a better place today, but more upset with the week you just went through. It appears that you hit the Lottery of back luck in one fell swoop, and all the possible things we all fear about (restroom acceptance , comments behind your back, rejection by long term acquaintances all came home to roost in a very short time span.

Even though I consider you fearless, does not minimize the pain you must have and still feel. I am very sorry that you had to go through all that, and it does not alter what you in your heart wish to accomplish

Much love
Gretch

[Nigella]

Maybe it would be nice if this was a prescription we could get filled :)



252105

[Eryn]

...I overheard two younger women talking (civilian employees). One started by saying "Did you see the freak out there?" to which the other replied "Yeah, that is just perverse but you know policy and we have to treat it with respect"... ...When I came out the bar manager was there and she asked me if I was a man. I replied that I was a woman to which she replied that while that may be how I see myself, I was however making the female patrons uncomfortable by using the ladies and she asked I not do so again. When I explained to her that I have the legal right to do so she asked me to leave. All this was done in earshot of a table of young men and women (including the one from the bathroom) all staring earnestly in my direction. Emotionally I had nothing so I just collected my coat and left, all to the applause and laughter of that table....

At this point, since you have put yourself out there, it seems like it's appropriate to engage the legal system. Those girls, and that bartender, have both violated your rights and the stated policy of your management. They should feel the consequences of their actions.

Document names, times, and places and report them to the appropriate authorities.

[stefan37]

Since when is it illegal to talk about someone behind their back? You can't always just run to the legal system everytime you are slighted. It's just impractical.

[LeaP]

I can only speak from a US perspective, as I don't know anything about Canadian law. It is never illegal (except at real extremes like incitement) per se to speak about anyone, in front of or behind their backs. Civil rights suits focus on determining whether the atmosphere is hostile, and if it is, who is responsible. A single incident will rarely qualify. Speech in the workplace is generally considered to be part of the atmosphere, but management has to be reasonably aware of it to be responsible, whether because it's reported to them or because they are in a position to know anyway.

What's not clear to me is how this work related. You are describing work, but also appear to be in a customer status. I don't get it. If this was NOT at work, typically different rules apply. In the US, that may be public accomodation law, civil rights law, or neither, depending on jurisdiction.

Can you clarify the incident??? Company gym ... or just in the building? It is sub'd out to a contracting firm, or managed internally? Is it open to the public to join?

[Eryn]

I believe that we are talking about incidents that occurred at Canadian Air Force facilities. If that is correct, then the "free speech" argument does not hold. The service has a policy and it should be followed.

A single incident may not qualify, but records should be kept. That's how you show a pattern of discrimination.

California has prohibitions on the books concerning what are termed "hostile work environments", where some employees create a situation that bullies or harasses another over issues of race, gender, orientation, etc. I'm not sure if Canada has similar regulations, but I'm sure the CAF must.



...Never mind I'm sure all those hidden crossdressers at your work will come out to give you their support, because of course we are all in the same boat, under the same umbrella!

And how do you know that they haven't? I'm not out at work, yet I do not tolerate hate speech of any sort. If I hear it I say that bigotry isn't acceptable in my presence. I'm secure enough to know that sticking up for someone being abused does not out me at all.

Let's not drive wedges between allies over imaginary slights

[stefan37]

One event occurred at the gym. Probably on base. Still not illegal to talk behind ones back. I believe the other occurred off base at a bar.

[Heidi Stevens]

Marcelle, I too am so sad that you had to go thru this rough patch. I had PMed you yesterday hoping to find out what was shaking in your world. I now know why you've been slow to respond. You got hit by two of humanities worse traits: group bullying and gossip. Until we are all perfect, it will always be around. You seem to be a positive person, so I'm quite sure you'll shake off the funk of this past week soon. Wish I was there to give you a reassuring hug and a friendly smile.

[Kate T]

Your colleagues and your superiors should perhaps watch the following speech from Major David Morrison of the Australian army

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QaqpoeVgr8U

The speech was written by Cate McGregor, the highest ranking Trans person in the Australian armed forces. She has also been nominated for Australian of the year (a pretty big deal in Aus).
I'm sure Donna will tell you that it is not all chocolates and roses in the Aus military BUT the age of macho dipsticks is over. You are one of the leaders who will bring about this change, the path is not likely to be easy but take heart in the fact that the payoff, for you and others who follow you, is great.

[ptp009]

Hi,

Sorry you had a bad week, what really bothered me was the Former Friend who said he would work with you but didn't want to interact with you other ways. About a year ago I was dressed (I'm TG but still in closet to some) I was at a bar a guy sitting on a wall totally wasted fell down and smashed his head. They called an ambulance and myself a former Army Medic, EMT Certified Med and other stuff I took care of him so he wouldn't aspirate and choke on himself and kept him there. A police officer came and just let me do my EMT Thing. Everyone was watching and the ambulance came I gave them an overview and stayed and watched. The guy next to me who could see I was a man dressed up said he knew I was a transvestite but if he got hurt he would want me there to take care of him. Several people of all genders came to me to thank me for being there and it was very clear my dressing or gender choice didn't get in the way of doing my job. The point is these same people who may shun you are the very people whose life you may save sometime especially as I see you are in the military, maybe next time he needs help he will look for someone he can judge rather than settle for a qualified person (Whatever Gender)to help him rather than place a label on you. Good Luck Hon!!

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

Again, thanks for your support and kind words . . . definitely in a better place now and ready to go back to work on Thursday :)


. . . Can you clarify the incident??? Company gym ... or just in the building? It is sub'd out to a contracting firm, or managed internally? Is it open to the public to join?

Hi Lea,

To clarify . . . military gym and civilian restaurant/bar.



At this point, since you have put yourself out there, it seems like it's appropriate to engage the legal system. Those girls, and that bartender, have both violated your rights and the stated policy of your management. They should feel the consequences of their actions . . . report them to the appropriate authorities



I believe that we are talking about incidents that occurred at Canadian Air Force facilities. If that is correct, then the "free speech" argument does not hold. The service has a policy and it should be followed.

A single incident may not qualify, but records should be kept. That's how you show a pattern of discrimination.

Hi Eyrn,

Fair enough but you also have to understand a few things. While the Canadian military has a harassment policy in place what the two women were engaging in would not constitute harassment. They were stating an opinion albeit quite heinous amongst themselves which I just had the misfortune to overhear. If I wanted to bump this to harassment I would have had to gone around the corner, confronted them then taken the complaint to a harassment advisor/investigator. There were no witnesses and if they denied (which I am sure they would) it would have been a she said/they said result with no further investigation. There would have been no documented case of harassment or black mark against these two. It would have been different if they were on the floor inciting others toward me . . . then I would have acted. For these two stellar examples of humanity the best revenge I can get is to go back to the gym on Thursday, head held high and rock my workout.

With regards to the bar. You are correct in that the bar manager was way outside her boundaries in asking me to leave as the Ontario Charter of Rights and Freedom allows me the right to use the bathroom of my chosen gender. However, I had just lost a dear friend to this, was still railing from the day's events and emotionally I was not prepared to get into it with someone who is ignorant and probably just running on intolerance. Added to this the table of patrons close by which included several testosterone filled young men who were drinking heavy were taking way too much interest in me and it was getting me very upset. As much as I can draw internal strength there is a part of that strength which can be quite dark and I chalk that up to my training and military experiences. I felt that side which I have gone to great lengths to submerse and I never want to go there again. So I engaged in a sound tactical withdrawal rather than end up a byline in some local newspaper.

Sometimes the good fight means knowing what hill to die on and that was not it. Don't fret though I have lunch on Thursday with a close friend planned at that same place. I talked to the general manager yesterday by phone and he will meet with me to discuss the events and the bar manager will be at that same meeting.

Cheers

Marcelle

[becky77]

Good to hear you are on the up again Marcelle, you're stronger than I am. I would never go back to that bar after that!



Let's not drive wedges between allies over imaginary slights

I know what you are saying Erin and you're made of sterner stuff.
But truth is transitioning in place at work is tough, initially everyone is talking about you and people are stumbling over themselves in how to deal with you.
Maybe I'm a little bitter currently, I work in a largish company and only my close colleagues showed support, nearly everyone else acted like they hoped if they ignored it, it's not happening.

It feels very lonely when you're the only one in the company (bet I'm not) and people are jittery about handling you right, like you're some kind of toxic package.

At that time where was this Umbrella of support? It only exists in theory not practice.
It's sprouted by those in hiding desperate for inclusion, they all go very quiet when it becomes real life though.

On here I'm given the impression we are one big Trans family an army standing together, as soon as one of us steps forward to face full-time you look back and you're standing on your own.

It's a pipedream.

Why does it bother me? Thing is I'm not so tough, I really struggle with confrontation and I have precious little confidence, I'm pretty soft and I have to push myself to speak up, despite that I transitioned and I was terrified.
It would have been so nice for a closeted Trans person to contact me and show solidarity.
I would have kept their anonymity but took strength in knowing I'm not alone.

You're left to fend for yourself and it makes you have zero tolerance when someone hiding on a forum tries to say we are all as one!
I was definitely as One, One solitary poor fool!

[Eryn]

Marcelle, I understand that sometimes one has to pick one's battles and you were the person on the ground. I'll trust your judgement. I do suggest a better class of bar.

Becky, acceptance is won by small victories. I used to be scared to speak up, fearing loss of friendships. After I spoke up a few times I found that this didn't happen, and I gained a lot of self-respect. However, I would not have been prompted to be assertive by a backhanded comment here. It's something we have to be mentally prepared to do.

[Marcelle]

Hi Eryn,

It wasn't the restaurant/bar it was the people. This is the reality of my life now and this restaurant/bar is one that my friends and colleagues frequent so I will not be run off skulking into the shadows by some intolerance . . . I just needed time to recharge before I approach this via a meeting on Thursday dealing with it that night would have gone poorly on so many levels. :)

Cheers

Marcelle

[Eryn]

I will add that those girls, by using derogatory language in a conversation that could be heard by those around them *were* creating a hostile environment. They wouldn't have used the "N" word in their conversation, yet they felt comfortable referring to a TG person as a freak and pervert. While it may be a "she said, they said" situation, bringing it up with their supervisor might result in their being informed informally that their behavior is not acceptable. If nothing else, it will push their hate speech underground where it belongs.

This may not apply to the current situation, but it is a thought to keep in mind for the future.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

Hi Marcelle,

Been off site for a few day so I'm just getting caught up. Sorry you had a crappy couple of days, but glad to here you are getting it back together. It is rough when you are decidedly different from other people. As I read in another blog post this morning humans, as social mammals, are heavily conditioned to seek and expect a certain amount of uniformity. When we choose to break social norms the backlash can be unpleasant to say the least. I'm not saying this as if you don't already know it yourself, but just as a means to empathize with your situation. Your personal resolve to stick to your course and make this new version of life for yourself is very admirable. We're all pulling for you.

Bridget

[Marcelle]

UPDATE:

Hi all,

Well I had a meeting this past Thursday with the general manager of the bar/restaurant with the bar manager in tow. I explained how I was not impressed by my treatment and reiterated the Ontario Human Rights ruling on bathroom use. I was given a formal apology by both the general and bar manager (although I could tell it pained her to do so) and was treated to a free meal. Not a complete vindication but at least I should not have any issues again.

Cheers

Marcelle

[Kaitlyn Michele]

free meals!!! plus you can hit off the red tees now!!!

woo hoo!!!

(sarcasm)

i'm glad things went better this week

[Jennifer-GWN]

The woman is on a mission of such. Way-to-go girl!

[flatlander_48]

The thing is, it never really balances out. On the other hand, I think it is always important to allow people the chance to, at least, attempt to do the right thing.

DeeAnn

[Bria]

Marcelle, I can understand how crummy your week was! Wow, not good. Thank you for reminding us that there are still people that are not ready to accept diversity. I feel sorry for your friend that just can not come to the idea that you are still the same person, just different on the outside.

I'm sorry that you have to be subject to these sights.

Hugs, Bria

[PaulaQ]

I'm so sorry Marcelle. These are very difficult things you experienced - both the micro-aggressions and just plain ol' outright aggressions at the restaurant. A lot of us go through this.

So the first problem is that your officers decided to do a lecture on diversity right after you came out as trans. This automatically singles you out. It happens virtually every time an organization does this. This is one of the reasons we stress when educating organizations that the time to start talking about diversity and transgender people is BEFORE you have a situation like yours in everyone's midst. Because as you noticed, all they really did is single you out - the exact opposite of the desired effect. There isn't anything you can do about that now, but talking to whoever you talk to about policy on this stuff (be nice, they may feel defensive about this, although it was a natural mistake), would be a good idea so this doesn't happen to the next person. Because I can assure you there are others.

The stuff at the gym sucks, but it happens, unfortunately. You may find people photo you and post to social media. Yeah. :(

I'm really sorry to hear about your old friend. I know well personally how much something like that hurts. I know that doesn't help much, but a lot of people simply can't make the journey with us. Anyone who does stay in your life will make a transition of their own, of sorts.

Oh, about the restaurant. If there are laws that do protect you, you should report the restaurant. First contact the management company, and then if they don't address the problem, the local agency who deals with discrimination. Because that's exactly what you faced. I can also understand if you don't want to go through all of that, I know this was painful. Most of us don't report this stuff - we just want to get on with our lives.

[Brooklyn]

Marcelle, have you considered taking steps that would allow you to blend in a little more so you don't have as many ugly situations like those? I think you are really brave, but that kind of rejection would wear down most people over the long term.

[Marcelle]

Hi Ashley,

Alas there is not much which will help me blend any better than I do . . . short of surgery . . . which I am not prepared to do. I'll just have to develop a thick skin to go with my dude looks, keep smiling and not let the d-bags out there get to me (well at least not too much that is :))

Cheers

Marcelle

[PaulaQ]

Regarding nothing short of surgery will help you blend in better - HRT would probably help quite a bit. I understand why you don't want to do this, although PM me about it, I have something to say that can't be said in open forum.

As for FFS - if you are presenting female all the time, why would that be an issue?

There's also facial hair removal, if you haven't done that.

I'm not arguing with you, but I'm curious why you feel there's nothing short of a surgery that could help?