My boyfriend won't tell me the truth

[Tammy494]

Hello everybody, so I'm Tammy and I'm new to this site.. I've been reading a lot on here and it seems like you're all really wonderful and inspiring people. I'm here for some advice on an issue that I've been dealing with for months now. ive been with my boyfriend for almost 4 years but I now feel like I don't even know who he is. From the outside, he's a strong and attractive sports fanatic with lots of friends and a hilarious personality. He's always been a very private person when it comes to his emotions and feelings. But a few months ago I found pictures of him on a dating app.... In MY clothing. He was wearing a silk slip in one, and my pants in a couple of others. And there was another picture also. I was in complete shock. I found it while I was at my house and I was not about to talk to him about it through the phone so I was planning to wait to confront him. However that plan backfired because I called into work that day so I could get my head together and somebody at my job asked him if I was okay because I had called in. So he called me and demanded to know what was wrong and it just didn't go the way I wanted it to go. I wasn't ready to discuss it so since he forced me I just told him I caught him and that I'm not an idiot. He immediately denied it and I can't even tell you what happened from there, we broke up and didn't talk for days. When we finally did he was still sticking to his really shitty alibi. So I let it go. A week later I found his box of clothes hidden in his closet..... With my dress in it and tons of undies. I found it while he wasn't home and I had to leave. So I left a long note with the box on his bed saying that I just want to know the truth and that I'll accept it no matter what it is. I wrote that I love him for him not what clothes he wears and that he doesn't have to be scared to tell me. I tried to make it as comforting as possible. But when he got home he still didn't tell me the truth. He avoided it and opened up to me about how depressed he's been for years and talked about all of the pain that he holds inside. It broke my heart that I never thought he was anything but happy. So again I let it go. Months down the line now, I still don't trust him one bit. He left a stocking out one day a few weeks ago and I asked where it was from and he quickly responded " I don't know things just get mixed up in my clothes" and so then he left for work. So that upset me so I sent him long messages basically begging him for the truth telling him that I'll never let it go with the lies he's been telling me. I said he has a better chance of me staying with him if he just opens up then if he sticks to his lies. He stopped denying it at a certain point in that conversation but then he closed back down and said he had nothing to tell me. I feel really helpless, all I want is to understand and he won't allow me. I'm totally okay with the dressing if we just talk about it and he helps me to understand. I don't mind it, it's just clothing. But without the truth my mind runs wild thinking of all the possibilities. Please please please help me, I just want advice I want to get him to open up and let me in. I'm the least judge mental most caring person on the planet but if he doesn't stop lying then I will be forced to end the relationship because it's really tearing me apart. Please help.

[RADER]

Hi Tammy;
Welcome to the forum, glad you found us.
You BF has been caught, and he is scared, very scared that the cat got out of the bag,
and he will be the laughing stock of America.
Now by your Post, I know you will not tell, but he is scared and lying your way out of
the Pickle Barrel is the order of the day.
The notes you sent him was great, but the two of you need a face to face sit down.
In a sense, you need to hold his hand and tell him how much you love him, try to calm
his fears. Trust is the key thing in a relationship. with out trust, there is no relationship.
Tell him his secrete is safe with you, but he needs to come clean with you what his
intentions are. Cross dressing is just one page, Transition is another, And some thing I
am sure you are not interested in at this time.
Tell him IF you are willing to go shopping with him, Getting is own wardrobe, and maybe
setting some limits for now, on how much dressing he does.
Good luck
The hardest thing is going to break the Ice, Getting him to open up to you, being able to
Trust each other.
Rader

[Tammy494]

Radar,
Everything you said makes sense, and I know the best way of communication is face to face. The thing is, I have tried. I wasn't able to include every single detail in my post because it would have been incredibly long. Basically, (I'm going to use a fake name ) John is awful at communicating. Any type of serious conversation that I've ever attempted to have with him in person over the past 4 years has ended in failure. He gets so angry and feels attacked whenever we talk seriously face to face. And I promise you, although I've been in attack mode in previous talks, this was not one of them. When this whole thing happened I sat him down and said that I want us to grow together and as individuals and that this can make us stronger. I told him that I will be able to trust him again but he needs to be honest. I probably said that I'm scared to get hurt, but I've also said straight out that I do not care at all if he is a crossdresser. But he just denies denies denies. I feel like I'm fighting a brick wall that won't come down.

[Robin414]

Hi Tammy, I'm no expert but IMHO based on how you've described your BF I think he's likely DEEPLY, and I mean DEEPLY embarrassed to come out of the closet...I gather he's pobably less than 30 as well...even MORE DEEPLY embarrassed! I'd suggest taking it slow and maybe even 'turning a blind eye' to it for a while until it sinks in (for him).

(I'm kinda in the same boat...maybe a few boat lengths ahead).

[Thea Pauline]

Hi Tammy,

I'm fully transitioned but for the details, so take my advice and ratchet it down until it fits. It appears from your initial post that you are as accepting as you can be given the limited interaction you have been able to have. I think I fully understand where both of you are because of my own experiences. "John" is terrified, wants you to know but doesn't, is in a panic, has no idea what the future holds and needs to get hooked up with a counselor experienced with gender issues. I say counselor because this should not be considered a mental problem that requires therapy, but a question of self that deserves acknowledgement and answers. Those answers may or may not come from a mental health professional, but from the honest interaction with a neutral party. You see my dear, despite your openness and willingness to hear and discover together, "John" may need to learn about himself alone, but learn he must. You too must have a neutral outlet to discover your own limits and to keep yourself healthy if you are to travel this path with him.

Take care of yourself, remain open and encourage communication; especially between "John" and a specialist in gender issues. Not because it's a problem, but to help him negotiate these turbulent times in your lives. You will both benefit from learning how to discuss this.

Best wishes.

[Pat]

Hi Tammy -- thanks for coming to the forum and asking. Your guy is fortunate to have you even if he doesn't know it yet. ;) A closeted crossdresser has years of conditioning to hide his behavior and it's probably backed up by as many years of self-loathing. He's probably afraid to come clean about it both because he doesn't understand it himself and because he can't imagine how anyone could love him if they find out about this awful vice (in his mind.) You're a total hero if you ride this out. It seems like you're saying the right things, you just need to crack through the shell. Maybe you should encourage him to come here and read a bit -- find out he's not alone; he's not broken and he can be as loved as anyone else.

[Robin414]

Good advice Jennie, I second that, this is a wonderful place to realize you're not alone...

[AmandaM]

You mentioned "dating app". Does this mean currently? Is he looking for dates? Make sure you're okay with this part of the issue if you want to move forward.

[Rachelakld]

I spent decades building up a tough military image, it takes a heck off effort to hide something like this, also we often (and incorrectly) associate it with GAY, and leads to a path we never want to travel. So the possibility of such an unwanted future can cause depression, anxiety etc (many people hide it with laughter).
Accepting who I am took 4 decades.
I don't know how to get your BF to open up, I do know I wished my GF would wear my hidden treasures to bed, and also let me wear them to bed. I still "borrow" stuff from my wife that I think she looks sexy in, and pretend I look as sexy like her.
I think your BF needs to understand he is normal (perhaps not the normal he wanted), and maybe a councillor will speed up the process.

[Katya@]

Hi Tammy,
To me it sounds lile sounds like you go above and beyond what a reasonable person would expect. Many of us have significant others that totaly reject us outright or settle for don't ask don't tell relationship despite us coming out clean to them. I think your bf needs to get his act together at this point and a minimum to have an adult conversation with you. Do give him time to digest the situation but any relationship is a two way and he needs to stop denying the reality. This forum is a great place to learn who you are and it helped me to accept who I am.

[ReineD]

Hi Tammy, welcome! I'm a genetic female like you.

I was absolutely amazed when I finally realized just how difficult it is for some CDers to come out. You'll hear stories here about taking YEARS just to get the courage to post a picture with no face showing! Or drive two hours to attend a TG/CD support meeting in a room full of people they don't know who will understand! And the thought of telling a SO is worse than even death for some of our members!

You cannot underestimate how terrifying this is for your SO.

He needs to knock down some of his walls. Hopefully he will do so before losing you. It's just so sad to see CDers willing to leave their relationships because they're so terrified to be open to their SOs about this.

So now on to my question ... you mentioned a dating site. Was your SO looking to date other people and are you OK with this?

And a last comment: you might show him this thread, and ask if he would like to join the forum. There are all types of members here, from people who do this for fun occasionally, to people for whom it is a sexual preference (a fetish), to people who dress because they do not identify as male and everything else in between. He might want to talk to other CDers about his fear of letting you in. There is a private section for CDers that SO's cannot join.

There is also a private section for GGs (genetic girls, a.k.a birth females) that you might want to join too, for support. The details are here:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/faq.php?faq=pf#faq_gg_forum

[Dana44]

Tammy, The dating site in your clothes is quite bothersome. I wonder if he has gender issues and I agree that he needs to go to a councilor. He does need to come clean with you. Right now even though he doesn't know it, your a gold nugget in this relationship. We appreciate our SO's and do not lie to them. Coming out to my SO was one of the hardest things I had to do and it took a lot of communication to stabilize the situation. He may not want to see professional help even by himself. But he must come clean with you. Otherwise there is no relationship. I am a BI gender fluid cross dresser. Being BI, I would much rather and am now with my girlfriend. Yeah women are far better than what he is trying to do. Sit down with him and get him to open up with you.

[Tammy494]

I can't even express how grateful I am to be able to come here and talk about what's going on, and to have people giving me great advice.
Robin, I definitely agree with that he is probably very embarrassed. He's a very self conscious person even though he does not talk about it often. I can see it in certain social environments and I have only seen it get worse. He actually barely goes out with his friends anymore and he's only 24... I don't know what I can do to help him, it makes me so sad that he must be so scared and confused and embarrassed inside, and that he doesn't feel comfortable enough to come to me.
Thea, I definitely think counseling would be helpful but I just don't know how I would ever get him to agree. He's incredibly stubborn..

And Jennie I agree completely, he can be loved and he is loved by me and many others. I'm terrified to tell him I've even on here talking about this.

Is everybody suggesting that I wait it out a little longer even though I don't trust him and it tears me apart?
The dating site is just another one of many unexplained things. I just truly in my gut do not think he is cheating on me or intends to. My own theory is that he's so confused inside and perhaps he posted these pics without his face to get approval from strangers without giving himself away. I hope that's the case anyway. I'm left to draw my own conclusions...

- - - Updated - - -

I wasn't able to answer some people because I am at his house, but I will be returning in the morning for sure.

[Taragirl427]

I don't understand his reluctance to talk with you about this. You have clearly been understanding and supportive. I wish my ex-wife had responded the way you are...speaks volumes about your character. It seems alarming to me that he is so reluctant to talk with you and his photos were on a dating site. It could be more fetish and less gender identity related, and it could indicate that he is cheating or considering it. I don't mean to upset you. You know him best, so only you can really know if that's the case. I hope he comes around and opens up to you. With such an understanding partner like you it could really take your relationship to a wonderful level and give you an intensely close personal connection.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Hi Tammy, thanks for writing.

You are attached to your SO, and you're doing what you can to save your relationship, but frankly you deserve much, much better. I have sympathy for his crossdressing urges, obviously, but he's lying to you consistently, and what would worry me far more is that you know he's been on a dating site. You're trying to have a mature relationship with an adolescent, basically.

You are not responsible for his happiness.

You cannot 'save' him.

His selfishness and dishonesty are giant warning signs.

Heed them.

Hugs, Nikki

[AngelaYVR]

So much said already and good advice. I will address the dating site thing, though. It can be that when you bottle something up very tightly that the pressure builds and can come out in inappropriate ways. It could very well be the case that John has no real interest in dating but simply found a way to let off a little steam.
It can be hard to be closeted and yet desperately want to share that part of yourself. Could be wrong, he might just be a massive jerk. But if not, hopefully he will see that he can trust you (I know the irony here is tough).
I wish you all the best.

[debstar]

This sounds a lot like my story. Was very much in love with some one years ago who confronted me however I was not so emotionally mature at the time and just denied denied denied till I was blue in the face. I later learned she had good evidence to be sure but for me the presure and risk of being outed caused me to end our relationship.

I to this day regret how I handled that situation.

Given the dating site issue you mentioned I think at least you have a little leverage to request that he sees a councillor. If he agrees to that and actually attends the it may allow him a private space / outlet to discuss his feelings.. and may in time open up to you more.

[Tina_gm]

Hi Tammy. Welcome. Normally I am one of the more long winded posters when it comes to these wonderful threads. I say wonderful because of the reality, not because the situation is wonderful. It is anything but. So, I am only going to give you one little thought. He is not ready to tell you because he is not ready to admit it fully to himself. I was one of those for 30 years. It really isn't you he is so afraid of, or untrusting. It isn't because he doesn't have strong enough feelings for you. Him not telling you is due to how he feels about himself. You are doing the right things, but this acceptance thing is an incredibly hard barrier for many of us. Just keep doing what you are doing. You don't have to accept lies. But him opening up to you fully will happen when he is ready to admit it fully to himself.

[mechamoose]

We don't all fit in nice boxes, sweetie.

Many of us are conflicted as to how to handle it. Sure, I have a beard, but does that mean I'm the Alpha Male?

I was given a body. I didn't get any say in that. I'm a bull who likes skirts. My wife loves my 'Lion Mane'.

It isn't about being queer or effeminate. It is about being yourself.

What? is someone going to put you in the 'time-out' room?

Be yourself. Yes it has a risk of being beaten up. What is that worth?

People come behind us, don't you want it to be better for them?

If I can be out and take a hit, then I have done my job, as long as you pretty ones get to just BE.

That is "gratis" honey. I'm just doing what I have to do.

- MM

[LaurenS]

Tammy,

Even after about 40 years I struggle with the possibility and denial of being outed. I'm sure there are some friends and family that know or are suspicious, but I just close up when it is commented on. I guess I am worried about being betrayed.

As much as I would like to think the world is what you make of it, paradoxically I think outward denial is best for me.

Having said that, I am MUCH more accepting of myself, and no longer have the guilt and shame.

This took about 35 YEARS, even though I came out to wife shortly after marriage. Even then, it was a long time for me to feel comfortable with

Now, I'm happier than I have ever been, and will probably be doing outings and other things soon.

No advice here, other than to say it takes some of us a very long time to adjust, even with an SOs acceptance. Hell, I probably only understand 30% of it. In my twenties, I was absolutely terrified.

[mechamoose]

We are not as bad off as gay males were in the "70 s"

Please keep this in perspective. I'm out and I don't care. Why do you care what that cashier thinks?

Approval? Whose?


I'm tired of excuses. Live this life. It is gift, the only one we get

Live it like you mean it. Be *fierce*. Be something they talk about after you leave the table.

Don't wilt. We have the right to exist.

(Yes, I may have chip on my shoulder. You have something to say about that?)

[mykell]

hi tammy, do take advantage of the FAB section where you will find your peers,

admittedly i denied this side for a long time even if supposed friends and family members chimed in about it, ignored it and went about my days.
the guilt that i was deformed, weird and the shame i felt about it and associated with it was unbearable to comprehend, especially at twenty something...
always asking why and never having a concrete answer except "because i like it".

today i would relish the fact to have such a kind and understanding and accepting soul such as yourself to give my (crossdressing) self up to ! and i may have had that soul but was to scared to realize it may have happened.

but the truth is at that age i cant say with certainty that i would have trusted that soul.....you have quite a task ahead to overcome, we come in all shapes and sizes and if in his youth this may be a sexual turn on which would make it more complicated for you both im sure, so lots to consider.....as for the dating APP.....we do become a vain narcissistic like bunch, so maybe just wanting to share or find acceptance, this one is tough for you, but ive always been thankful for not having all this social media outlets in my youth,

you will find that we dont hedge our bets, if your SO turns out to be a butt-head we will let you know, in the future sharing in the LOVED ONE section may provide some better and sincere responses, its a member only section, personally i dont like to share too much of my personal stuff in the open forum and GGs like yourself dont respond to much in the MtF section.

for what is worth i would like to welcome you here, if only under more auspicious circumstances....

so it seems that you truly love this person and if you fight the good fight only to be hurt and rejected which has somewhat happened, think of this....
if you truly love something let it go, if it comes back its yours....if not it never was, corny i know but in my day it was used,
and this, if he pours out his heart and soul and things go well for some time and you break up, how will you use that information, this is what i think may be at the core of his trust issue, he is not looking at the "happily ever after", you have to somehow guide him there....

[NicoleScott]

You have given him ample opportunity to be honest with you, and his honesty is necessary for you to continue the relationship. At some point - maybe now - you will need to push the issue. You need to know which is more important to him - you, or whatever his private desires and activities are. His past reluctance is understandable, but he will need to know that there's no future with you if it continues. Have enough respect for yourself to refuse to be "the other woman" to his first love.

[Pat]

Tammy -- I think you have the dating site thing worked out correctly. I'm occasionally on the dating sites actually looking for dates and very few of the trans people on there are looking to meet. They're looking for a place to act out, to flirt, to pretend they're the person they desperately wish to be. When i set up a date and actually show up and actually look like my pictures the guys (if they show up) all have stories about how often TG/CD people are no-shows who suddenly stop answering email. I don't think you have to worry unless there's other evidence.

The only issue a dating site does put on the table is sexual orientation - is there a chance that he is, or thinks he is, bisexual? That's another highly secret, self loathing situation and mixed with being a crossdresser causes a lot of internal conflict that needs working out. (Personal experience talking.) Could you support him through that as well?

You seem like a wonderfully supportive person but even the best support can't bring him out unless he wants it. To him, depending on how his personal morality formed, he may not want to be the person he is. (Or we're assuming he is.) He may see that as a failure of morality that he can't face (Boston former Catholic speaking) so he first has to learn to accept himself before he can allow others to accept him. He should really come read some of the stories on this site.

[trishacd]

Everybody seems to handle crossdressing differently. When it comes to the 2 of you being together i am wondering why was he on the dating website ? Was he showing himself dressed.You should buy him a few things just to show him your sincere. He probably has the most accepting person with him already and is to embarrassed to let it play out. He doesn't know how lucky he is.Also you need to assure him this is between you and him only no matter what the outcome.
Good luck
Trisha

[Tracii G]

Hi Tammy you sound like a pretty understanding person and he is lucky in a way.
The dating site thing like others have said is more of an outlet IMO.I have done that myself but I was not in a relationship.
I do have an issue with you "finding" his clothes stash and going thru his phone "finding pics" Honey that is called snooping and not a very nice thing to do.How would you like him snooping in your stuff trying to find "dirty" little secrets? Shame on you.
He is scared and at 24 being "outed" is by far the worst thing that can happen. He will lose friends and possibly family if they found out he likes to CD.
He is in denial and will do anything not to be discovered.
I have had partners snoop in my stuff and it has caused me to walk out on what could have been a great relationship.
Good luck breaking the ice because it looks like he doesn't trust you either and can you blame him?
I hope you two can work things out I really do.

[Rhian]

If he's on a dating app I imagine there is a sexual element to his dressing. Try giving him something of yours to wear next time you are intimate and it should show him how comfortable you are with him dressing. If your not comfortable with him dressing while you are intimate you may just need to ask him bluntly why he has been wearing your clothes.

[NicoleScott]

Yes, Tammy may have some explaining to do regarding how discovery was made. But that doesn't remove the elephant in the room.

[Mayo]

Others here have suggested that people may go on dating sites to flirt or present their other side without risk but, to be honest, there are tons of chatrooms and adult hosting sites out there where one can 'put on' a female persona or post pics (with face blanked, even) so this doesn't ring true for me (I've done both). I'm inclined to think the dating site is for some sort of hookup, even if he may not actually have done it yet. This may present a risk to you in terms of STIs, and if he really is denying his CDing and/or bisexuality then he probably would not be thinking about safe sex and might even deliberately engage in risky sex as a form of self-punishment or self-shaming. I'm not saying this is the case, but that it might be.

I think you may need - perhaps not immediately, but soon if he doesn't make changes - exercise some tough love. You need to tell him that you accept that he is a cross-dresser or possibly even thinking of transitioning. You need to tell him (if you're agreeable to it) that you might consider an open relationship if he needs to explore other aspects of his sexuality as long as he makes the effort to make sure that you are both safe. You need to tell him that you will not tell his secrets (even if you were to break up!) and that you want to support him, but a relationship is based on trust and that you may not be able to stay with him if he is putting your health at risk and if he can't be open with you about this. You need to tell him that if he won't talk about it with you then he needs to see a counsellor and that you would like to meet with the counsellor too (at least once) to discuss your concerns - either with him or without him. If he can't agree to any of that within a reasonable time frame (6 months?) then you will need to seriously think about ending the relationship (but definitely say that you don't want to). He sounds as though he has some major denial issues and I think that this (not the CDing, not the bisexuality, but the denial and inability to be open with you) is a serious problem if not addressed soon. If he can't sit down and talk with you face to face, you need to say this in a letter at least.

Maybe this is the right way to go, maybe not, but it's something that only you can decide. I hope he listens to you and that you can both work it out.

[Tammy494]

Thank you so so much for all of your replies, it's giving me a lot of insight on the situation. I appreciate everybody very very much.
I will get more into details with the dating site. As I said in my first post, there are other things that have happened that I haven't written about.
It began before I even found the pictures. I had gone on his phone months before in the winter to check something and saw that he had a dating app and kik. I demanded an answer. He told me some bullshit and I brushed it off. Over the past 4 years I've caught him flirting with 2 different girls on his phone but he never met up. They would ask to hangout and he never would. The one time he's ever cried was the second time I caught him talking to a girl and he said his friends give him shit for being in a relationship when they go out and that he has low self esteem and that he doesn't deserve me.
So basically the trust has been broken before. But after the last time when I initially found the app but no pictures, I stopped going on his phone because I realized it is an invasion of privacy.
I found these pictures by myself, in my room on MY phone. I downloaded the app because my gut must have told me too. At first I thought I didn't see anything but THEN.... That butt looks familiar, so does that room, so do those clothes.... They were uploaded 20 hours before I found them. This app tells you when somebody views you and although I used a fake name I think he knew something was wrong when a weird name KEPT viewing his profile.
The thing is, I never thought he was gay. He was the one who defended it before I even accused, saying I think he's gay or something. I never got that vibe from him he's always been very into me, but maybe some of you can fill me in on whether or not you were intimate and very into a female before you realized you liked men too? Or maybe when some of you were this age, you were confused of what the dressing could mean?

- - - Updated - - -

For the record, I am very much not okay with being with a bisexual man. No offense to anybody, it's just past my comfort level. I'm also definitely not okay with an open relationship.

[mechamoose]

Honesty trumps everything.

You can't lie to yourself, and you can't lie to your mate. Even if it hurts, *especially* when it hurts. That is when it matters.

- MM

[mykell]

Hi Tammy, welcome! I'm a genetic female like you.
There is also a private section for GGs (genetic girls, a.k.a birth females) that you might want to join too, for support. The details are here:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/faq.php?faq=pf#faq_gg_forum

i think it will benefit you to apply to this forum, i think he is scared and confused but getting real about it will be advantages to you both, since society presumes we are gay he may too, all the more important that he join in here and learn about himself with folks like himself.....

edit:
look this is about him, print it out, show him its OK, he is not the only one like this, it validates your love for him, it establishes good intent and love from perfect strangers, it will let him know he will be OK in the end, however far down the rabbit hole he goes he is not the first....its in the open already, an honest conversation has to be had....

28,866 members and counting, he has to have something in common with someone?

[~Joanne~]

Until your BF becomes comfortable with all of this his self, the wall, barrier, or whatever you want to call it will always be up. It won't come down for any reason and maybe not pushing it would be the best advice. At some point every one here denied they were a CD. We have purged and tried to stop to no avail. I assure you, we didn't ask for this, it chose us not the other way around.

I didn't accept this myself until a couple of years ago and I am almost twice his age. at 24 he's probably really struggling with this especially because your in the picture. He's probably thinking the relationship is getting to a serious point after 4 years, I am talking about marriage, and is probably fighting with his self even more. I am not saying you shouldn't be in the picture I am just saying it's adding a lot more pressure to him. Especially now that he knows you know.

Coming out of the closet as CD in time is one thing, being forced out is another. When I told My SO, it was out of fear (and a long story itself) I knew I had to tell her and believe it or not, it just got better but he's not to that point, he's not ready. A lot of sister's here still haven't told their SO's out of the fear of losing them, being rejected, the humiliation, and a million other thing s that run through our minds when trying to keep it secret.

It's not that we don't want to tell our others, the thoughts of being accepted and having a supporting SO is like hitting the lottery to us but we don't live in a perfect world so we know that telling anyone of this has the potential to ruin one's life completely. Once the cat is out of the bag, there's no putting it back.

Ok right here your buying into the whole CDing means the person is gay misconception held by the population as a whole, and it really is one of the main reasons most CD's never tell their SO's about their dressing.

maybe some of you can fill me in on whether or not you were intimate and very into a female before you realized you liked men too?

Most of us are heterosexual males. We don't understand the draw of female clothing, the need to try these things on or the continued need to explore this side of ourselves but the one thing that very rarely changes is our sexual preference. Yes, some find that they are more than just a CD and it does change but for most of us it doesn't.

I wish I could explain to you as to why we do this but unfortunately we don't even have those answers. It's one of those things we have struggled with our whole lives, and still do, and probably will never find that answer.

maybe when some of you were this age, you were confused of what the dressing could mean?

I am sure most of us have been here also. Confusion is your best friend when your a CD. You ask yourself "Why" all the time. In time though you just learn to accept this and your BF isn't there yet being as young as he is. I understand you want answers, you need answers, you just want him to be open about it and to trust you with what is probably the biggest secret of his life but he wants the same thing too. He wants answers he'll never find. No therapy in the world is going to help him find them either.

Just like I just said that most of us are heterosexual, I will also say that most of us THOUGHT when we first started experimenting with women's clothes that we were gay also. It's how we were shaped to think by society as a whole. Once you go outside that box of thinking though you really do realize that your hurting no one, you should have the same freedoms everyone else does to express yourself and that when you start accepting this and it can move forward.

[Stephanie47]

I'm not going to revisit the advice that precedes my comment. He's 24. You're 21. You and your boyfriend may be able to work these issues out. Maybe not. Just remember you must be true to yourself and look after your best interests and happiness. You cannot save a relationship by yourself. In your relationship I see in him a lack of maturity and commitment. Some men, whether they wear a dress or not, will never hold their girlfriend or wife as an equal. They will be dismissive of their women. It is not adequate in a relationship with a man that he is liked by all others. It is not adequate that everyone thinks he is sweet and has a good sense of humor. You need to consider how he treats you. You can bet your last dollar that he is not going to discuss his feelings with anyone else, if he will not discuss them with you. And, if he will not discuss them with you, you're going to be what many men consider their girlfriends and wives to be....package..a possession.

Be true to yourself.

[Debra Russell]

Set out some clothes tell him you understand and see if he would like to have a "Dress up Party" - help him do his makeup - tell him he's pretty and you love him for who he is ,,,,,, who knows .... maybe it could be a good thing.....................................Debra

[ReineD]

Hi Tammy,

Two things:

I read your OP again and noticed this:


But when he got home he still didn't tell me the truth. He avoided it and opened up to me about how depressed he's been for years and talked about all of the pain that he holds inside. It broke my heart that I never thought he was anything but happy. So again I let it go. Months down the line now, I still don't trust him one bit.

I think you let it go too soon. He does know that you found his clothes. The key here is "all the pain he holds inside". I think this was an opening to let you in. You might want to revisit the conversation from this point of view and ask him to tell you more about his pain. Tell him that you understand how difficult it must be for him to tell you about his feelings and the crossdressing, but he needs to know there are a lot of men who do this for lots of different reasons and they are not crazy. You are a couple now and there are certain things that have a huge impact on intimacy, that cannot be ignored.

That said, he won’t be able to tell you why he does this. I’m guessing that it is sexual for him at this point, and he thinks it is a weird and somewhat shameful sexual kink, especially if there is conflict between this and his sexuality with you.



Is everybody suggesting that I wait it out a little longer even though I don't trust him and it tears me apart?
The dating site is just another one of many unexplained things. I just truly in my gut do not think he is cheating on me or intends to. My own theory is that he's so confused inside and perhaps he posted these pics without his face to get approval from strangers without giving himself away. I hope that's the case anyway. I'm left to draw my own conclusions...

Waiting it out will only make things worse. It's not a good idea to draw your own conclusions because it is very likely you will get it wrong.

The sexual urges related to the CDing can be very powerful. You don’t say what type of dating site this was, if it was a site where CDers hook up? Was it a dating site or an image hosting site with profiles for CDers to meet online and engage in cyber fantasy together in private? A lot of people feel that online fantasy interaction is not cheating because the people involved do not meet in real life. But, it is still sexual energy that is directed outside of your relationship (like reacting to porn) and if you are not OK with your bf sourcing sexual gratification outside of your relationship then you need to let him know.

I’m doing a lot of guessing here because I don’t know the details (I'm getting my cues from the term "dating site"), but fundamentally, things won’t get better between the two of you until you find a way to bring everything out in the open with your bf, without any judgment. Tammy, if you sweep this under the carpet for fear of upsetting the status quo, your relationship will stagnate. I know that bringing this up again is hard to do.

Does he know that you found pictures of him dressed on that site?

[Infused]

Good for you for being so accepting and making the effort to keep your relationship. I just want to add something regarding the denial. It is difficult to explain something when you don't understand it yourself. I've made progress understanding myself, but when I really ponder on it, I still come up with more questions than answers. I wish that I had someone to talk with and help me figure myself out. Hopefully he finds the courage to be open and talk honestly about this.

[ReineD]

The thing is, I never thought he was gay. He was the one who defended it before I even accused, saying I think he's gay or something. I never got that vibe from him he's always been very into me, but maybe some of you can fill me in on whether or not you were intimate and very into a female before you realized you liked men too? Or maybe when some of you were this age, you were confused of what the dressing could mean?


I typed my response above without reading page 2 of this thread. Sorry. :facepalm:

There are lots of fantasies about being with men here. Any thread that has "dating" and "men" in the thread title gets thousands more hits than other threads. Yet most CDers are hetero. It's more about the fantasy of being a sexually alluring woman (and using the fantasy guy as a prop) than actually having an attraction to males, although we do have some members who are gay or bi. If your bf became upset when he thought you were wondering if he is gay, he probably doesn't intend it to take the fantasy to real life physical experience.

It still gets back to the same thing though. Does he source a greater amount of sexual excitement with the fantasies than he does with you and even if he is equally into you, are you OK with having this sort of competition.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Tammy:hugs:, It sounds like shame and embarrassment on his part.:daydreaming:

[Mayo]

As has been stated, the assumption that CD = gay is just a stereotype and more likely to be false than true. Unless you know he's talking to other guys then you don't have any idea at this point if he's bi or gay. Who his intended audience for those dressed photos might be is at the moment unclear (though I have difficulty believing that it's other women). Frankly, he may not really know himself but ultimately people need to figure these things out for themselves. I understand where your comfort level is about non-hetero sexuality, but it does complicate matters a bit in terms of unconditional acceptance: you're in the position where you have to say that you love him and accept him if he's a crossdresser but you won't be able to handle it if he's not absolutely straight.

Ultimately, for a relationship to survive and thrive, people need to be comfortable with who they are themselves (which he definitely is not) and with who their spouses/SOs are, otherwise there will be conflicts. These things need to be gotten out in the open for your relationship to succeed, but at the same time you (both) have to realize that doing so might bring up things that could cause the relationship to crash. You just have to read these forums to know how much anguish some of the people here have gone through. The fear of loss is a scary thing that keeps people hanging on, not being open, and ultimately making choices that in the end are not the best ones for themselves or for the relationship. (I speak as someone who got married when I shouldn't have because I didn't have the guts to say no and be honest about my true feelings and then stayed in an abusive relationship for a decade because I didn't have the guts to say no and leave.) In the end, if the two of you turn out not to be compatible, isn't it better to know sooner than later? Please note that I'm not saying that you two aren't going to stay together - I'm just saying that you need to recognize that the possibility exists and work together to make the relationship survive if it can.

It seems that he needs individual counselling for his gender issues - whatever they may be - and the two of you could use some couples counselling as to how to deal with whatever comes up (including his inability to be open and honest with you) in the most constructive way possible for you both. I hope it works out for you both in the end.

[Pat]

I never got that vibe from him he's always been very into me, but maybe some of you can fill me in on whether or not you were intimate and very into a female before you realized you liked men too? Or maybe when some of you were this age, you were confused of what the dressing could mean?

Confused at his age? Absolutely. 100%. But it was in the days before information was widely available and the subject was *never* discussed in a positive way. He's fortunate to live in these times when there are sites like this and a tiny minority (numbers say 0.3% of the general US population identifies as transgender and not all of those people are crossdressers.) can find each other and help and support each other.

Bisexual means you're attracted to males and females. It doesn't mean you're promiscuous and it doesn't mean you have to act on any particular attraction. So living with a bisexual man isn't as much of a challenge as many women fear. I've been in long-term, monogamous relationships with women, was married for 20 years with no infidelity on either side. I've had committed and non-commited relationships with both sexes -- other than the anatomy of my partner I don't see my relationships as different than traditional ones.

[Mayo]

This is also true. Just because someone has bisexual interests doesn't mean they have to act on them. On the other hand, some people feel strongly enough about it that they do feel that need. This is something he needs to figure out (if it's even an issue, which hasn't yet been established). So, even if it's true, it may not be a problem in terms of fidelity, but whether the possibility that he's potentially bi would be a big problem for you 'just because' (even if it's never acted on) is something you may need to deal with if it does come up. Whatever the issues turn out to be, I can only say that it will be a challenge for you both. Good luck.

[RADER]

For the record, I am very much not okay with being with a bisexual man. No offense to anybody, it's just past my comfort level. I'm also definitely not okay with an open relationship.

Tammy:
maybe it might be time to cut your losses. If you have tried to talk with him, and he refuses,
You have seen that he can not be trusted, and you suspect that he might be on this dating site.
Then You might think of looking toward finding a new interest.
I understand the leaving him would be very hard; After all you invested a lot of time with him,
Spent some happy times together. But if the two of you went further in a relationship, You could
be hurt a lot more if one day you came home and found him with an other person.

By your post, you sound like a dream come true to most people on this forum. You deserve a lot
better treatment. I treated my wife like a Queen, I loved her very much, and she also in return.
We had great respect for each other, and now even after her passing, I still act in accordingly as
if she was still here. I do hope you find your happiness, weather with (HIM) or someone else.
I hope also that finding the Forum, helped you in your endeavors.
Rader

[Laurie A]

Hi Tammy -- thanks for coming to the forum and asking. Your guy is fortunate to have you even if he doesn't know it yet. ;) A closeted crossdresser has years of conditioning to hide his behavior and it's probably backed up by as many years of self-loathing. He's probably afraid to come clean about it both because he doesn't understand it himself and because he can't imagine how anyone could love him if they find out about this awful vice (in his mind.) You're a total hero if you ride this out. It seems like you're saying the right things, you just need to crack through the shell. Maybe you should encourage him to come here and read a bit -- find out he's not alone; he's not broken and he can be as loved as anyone else.

I completely agree with Jennie! I once read that one of the reasons that cross dressers are so ashamed is that they are deeply invested in their male persona. He's probably spent years trying to bury and repress an irresistible urge. The worst insults we were conditioned to as boys were "sissy" and most anything perceived as feminine behavior. Those memories are sometimes deeply burned into our self evaluation.

Hang in there and be strong, if you love this guy, I hope you will be able to work this out.

[NicoleScott]

All the speculation: the box of panties, does he have a panty fetish? The dating site, the photos. What do they mean? Is he a guy who likes to dress up (a CDer) or see himself as a woman? Hetero, bi, gay? All this speculation shows what the problem is and what needs to be done. In the OP Tammy said "without the truth my mind runs wild thinking of all the possibilities." She needs answers, not more time to work on him. Truth now.

[Amy Fakley]

My own theory is that he's so confused inside and perhaps he posted these pics without his face to get approval from strangers without giving himself away...

That sounds plausible. All you have to do is take a glance through the picture & video forum here to find countless examples of many of us doing that exact thing. Heck, it took me something like 3 years hanging around here, before I got the guts to show my face. I sought faceless validation too many times to count, myself. It looks creepy, and shocking ... at the end of the day, it's kind of a rite of passage for our tribe, I think.

Though the fact it was a dating site ... I guess you have to judge context. Was he trying to line up a hook up / cheating type situation? If so, that's far more of a concern than the dressing, I'd think.

One other thought I'd like to share is this ... understanding this from the perspective of "embarrassment" or "confusion" is accurate, but it's more of an aerial view from ten thousand feet. You mentioned he seems irritable, socially distant ... as if he is fighting an epic internal war.

If he's anything like me at that age, he totally is. In more ways than you can possibly imagine. You have to remember that the culture most of us grew up in doesn't regard this as quirky or unusual. It's considered mortally shameful. You cannot imagine the lengths we go to, in order to not only hide this from others, but to hide it from ourselves ... to enable us to get along in a world that does not condone us and has spared no opportunity to make that point clear to us, since before we even had the words to describe it.

Ironically, the thing that will begin to make things better for him is someone like you. But before he can let someone else in, he's gotta make peace with himself, and that just has to come in its own time. I don't think you'll have much luck rushing that.

Same with going to councelling. If he's not ready for it, he won't want to go. He's got to be in that place already.

You absoloutely deserve for him to be honest with you, even if he's not ready to let you in and talk about it, you deserve an end to the deception.

I hope he decides to let you in, but that might take some time. I was married for 17 year with kids before I finally came to that place where I was ready to let my wife in. You guys are so young, and he is so.lucky to have someone like you ... that being said, don't be afraid to do the right thing for YOU, if this doesn't go somewhere positive in a reasonable time frame.

[Lisa85]

Wow no wonder the 20's are so hard and most don't become adults until 30's.

What are the needs of this age?
-- discovering a career
-- discovering what is liked and disliked
-- wondering what a long term relationship really means
-- is long term better than short term?
-- can I say what I think and feel, or will I be critized
-- if I show weakness, am I less than a person...
etc

These are not light questions and it is normal to have ups and downs dealing with them.

HE
-- testing rules about dressing, can Halloween be more than one day a year
-- am I making a mistake by staying around
-- can I safely explore other options before I really commit
-- can I reveal weakness without wrecking all

SHE
-- snooping is OK, but hiding is not
-- unsure if costume dressing is ok
-- sounding like attack mode and surprised when target draws back
-- unsure about other potential relationships in his life


Where to start? Everyone needs a safe area that will not be invaded. He needs sometimes to stash stuff and feeling until it's safe to share. You need to be able to share more without feeling your needs are being ignored. You are young. the biggest constant is not where you are now but how you adapt to changes.

Letters and long notes are not a good method of sensitive communication as they can be misunderstood too much.

I'ld suggest starting with the basics:

-- setting up public and totally private areas.
-- discussing where you are in the relationship and how you can stay connected
-- what are the good things you each bring to the other and how can this be enhanced
-- is "dating app" because want to explore others, or more a "look at me and how I can show a different side"

You could even take advantage of the time of year. How about an in-home halloween cross dress party. You dress and act as maie as possible, and he dress female and act as female as possible. You could make a game of it and have him help you understand what male behavior is all about and you help him understand the fun of female dress, and then later the other aspects of female dressing that aren't so enchanting.

You've been thru a lot of change and stress, why not keep it lighter and more fun and then see where it leads

[AnnieMac]

Well, Tammy, he is most likely not gay, but it's possible he could be interested in some other girls, based on what you said about the phone messages and apps. Anyway, you have a great way to get even now, if he's messing around on you. Wouldn't be the first time it happened to a CD on this site. BTW, do us special folks here a favor and pass on to your friends or whoever, that for the most part we are a bunch of nice regular guys here, who just happen to like women's clothes, not perverts or anything.

[Tammy494]

Again, I am so thankful to have found this place and all of you. For the past few months I've been consumed by anxiety and stress over all of this, not knowing what to do next. After receiving so much advice and perspective on this, today is the first day in a while that I've felt a little better. I was able to enjoy my time with him today, a day we're both off from work. Lately I've been very bitter and cold towards him unintentionally because of how I feel inside. I didn't know how to stop it.
You really are all amazing people, and you have all opened my eyes a lot more. I now have a better understanding of how hard this is for him. I plan to go to the group on here that a few of you suggested also.
There's so much that has been said here for me to take in. I read every word of every post and I am really digesting everything that you all have said.
To answer a couple of questions, The dating site was a popular site where you find people in close range to you. Nothing having to do with CDs. I'm honestly a bit surprised that even though he didn't show his face that he would go on there because it is so clearly his room in the pictures and ANYBODY could have come across those pictures including friends that have been in his room. I'll never understand unless it is discussed. And again, I found these pictures just from using my phone. I didn't expect to find anything but when I did they were completely fresh. The pictures were uploaded 20 hours previous to me seeing them online.

Although the pictures were not found by snooping but rather by coming across something that was posted for anybody to see, I understand that snooping does not help the situation, but for me it is a hard urge to resist sometimes when I know things are being hidden from me.

What I have come to from everybody's advice is that, although he is not ready in any way shape or form, I do need answers. I will hold off for a little bit, but I don't think I could last months or years longer without at least whatever truth he has to tell me. I know from everything said that he must not even be close to understanding this or himself so how could he possibly explain it to me?
I'm not going to push, because I recall him saying to me a couple weeks ago angrily that, he would never do anything that he's being pushed to do.

I'm torn between showing him this site, or lightly asking about counseling, or maybe both. Or if I should maybe show him this site and then take some space away from him for a little bit. From everything I've gathered it seems like this age is a very tough time for many CDs and I now realize that and I feel for it. I really do. I only wish there was some way I could help him but I know at this current moment I can't. This is a battle inside him and I can't fight it.
I also realized from some of you that my needs are important also, and that I need to take care of myself as well. I'm going to work on that.
Right now I'm just letting myself relax after months of being filled with anxiety. I'm still stressed about it, but I now have this amazing place with beautiful and incredible people to support and help me. I wish I knew what my next move is but like I said, this is all A LOT to think about. So many different possibilities and perspectives. I really really would like to get him to this site. I want him to feel at least a little better like I do right now.

- - - Updated - - -

I forgot to add that I also am debating taking a lighter approach as some of you suggested and trying to have fun with it. However I have no clue how to approach that at all. I would be fine with him dressing up in front of me or me giving him clothing but I really don't know how he would react. If this is sexual as some of you think, then I mean that's fine. He can be sexy for me. As long as I can still be sexy for him. And as long as I'm not sticking anything in him... But again, no idea which approach to take. Do this, show him this site, suggest counseling or leave? Ugh I'm just so unsure I really don't know which is the best choice

[Dana44]

Tammy, One thing you could do is have a Friday night get together. For example I started this a long time ago. When I was working and had a very busy week. I found that Friday night was the one night I could spend time with whoever I was with. In fact its almost time for that now. I crack a bottle of wine. Some nice finger food, like grapes, cheese, crackers or what ever you like. No TV on or any interruptions. This is for you and him. Used to both strip down and face each other and talk about the week or whatever was on their mind. Sometime used candles and incense this was a most romantic time and for me the girl and I would get intimate quickly I found. Yes it was romantic. I usually put on the moody blues or some really romantic music. Today, since I'm out to her. We both dress in a nightie and face each other and yeah it is very romantic.

[Tracii G]

As you see Tammy there is no one right answer because we are all different and there is no one size fits all solution.
Being a CD or even transgender is a very hard road to go down.
Would I have chose to be a CD no of course not what guy would?
Being gay doesn't make it ant easier either so I have the double whammy working against me because gay guys want a guy not a guy that is more female than male.
I think trying to get him to view this site would help him a lot it sure helped me.
He has probably seen all the trashy porn CD sites and thinks this one is just like it but its really not like that at all we are here to help each other.
Maybe just leave this site open and let him find it.Perhaps he will see your post and see you are trying hard to understand whats going on with him.

[Vickie_CDTV]

One thing that concerns me is that he was on a dating app, not a site, which would be bad enough. If it is one of those apps that is used primarily for one time anonymous hookups (something that young people seem to be knowledgeable about but older people not as much) I would be more concerned about that than anything, much more so than the dressing. If he is cruising around for anonymous sex, he is putting you at an increased risk without your knowledge or consent.

[NicoleScott]

It's clear that he is in control of this situation. You said "he demanded to know what was wrong" and "he forced me to tell him". But he won't do anything he's forced to do. Like be truthful with you. This is a one-way deal. His way.

[Tammy494]

Wow Dana, that sounds like a great idea and id love to work my way up to that with him. Though I feel maybe that's not in the cards just yet. He has a hard time getting to that level of intimacy and openness. :(
Tracii, I also thought of that, I kinda want him to find out I'm on here but I'm nervous as well.

Vickie,
I'll be damned if I'm wrong by saying this but If there's anything I'm confident in, it's that he hasn't cheated on me and won't. The dating app is bothersome, believe me. And the dressing is something that I have accepted after months, and i only wish I had found out in a better way but I didn't.
However there's been various occasions where I come home and the bedroom door is locked and he won't open it for a minute or two while I hear him opening and closing things.. I should have known something was off the first time that happened. I just figured he was watching porn.

but I'll never know why he joined that app until he opens up. I haven't found anything that would indicate that he has cheated or will and I am here with him 6 days a week with a similar work schedule and I just really don't think it's because he's looking to hookup. I really think he is craving some kind of attention since he's not comfortable enough to get it from me yet. But then again maybe I'm a fool and I'm wrong... I hope not.

Nicole, I agree with you 100%. The situation is in his control but I'm hoping maybe I can change that over time. I hope maybe right now he's just guarded and on defense. But at the same time I have grown A LOT in the past few years and especially in the past year. He's always had the upper hand I feel, and I slowly feel
It becoming equal in who has it control. Not yet, but it seems like he is realizing what I mean to him the past few weeks since things have gotten tense. He sees that I'm hurt and that I'm almost distanced from him at times.
I don't know, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about but when everything happened he said he would never want us to break up, that he wants a future and I know sometimes people may just say that but I felt like he meant it. I think even though he hasn't opened up to me completely, he told me he's never been so close to a person before.
I just still don't know what to do.

. I know it needs to be addressed in some way. Maybe if the dating app wasn't involved, I could give it a lot more time. But I feel
Like a lot of you see it as a huge problem and now I'm questioning if it could be...

[Lisa85]

Don't wait weeks or months. this issue needs to be discussed. Be loving, but you have to be getting him to talk

[Tina_gm]

Hi again. Perhaps you can simplify things a bit. Obviously not being fully truthful is a great obstacle and it should be. He has essentially put a wall or barrier up about all this. I would suggest that perhaps you let him know that as long as he does this, you have to pull back somewhat. You leave the relationship intact, yet rather than be so stressed, hurt, filled with negative emotions. Perhaps seeing you pull back may help him open up more. Oddly enough, it can be the quiet pull back that often brings more incentive. For whatever reason, that seems to get to people more so than anger resentment and other negativity. Hope it turns out well for you.

[Claire Cook]

Hi Tammy,

I'm no expert on these things but I can tell you that having a woman support and encourage dressing is a potent elixir for me and I'd guess for most CD's. If there is any way you can break the ice and tell him that (the communication does sound difficult) I would do so. He doesn't seem to realize how lucky he is to have you, and I just hope that both of you can work this out.

[Rhonda Jean]

My strongly held opinion...

You're very young and very early in a relationship to be this far behind the eight ball. If you're not totally fine with being with a man who spends the rest of his life trying to look as much like a woman as possible without totally crashing his male persona, this would be a good time to get out. Let's just assume he's not gay (he's likely not). Let's also assume that he'll never cheat on you. Even though I didn't grow up in an era with dating sites, I can imagine that this is a modern way to toy with the idea and see if you're as hot as you imagine you are, with no real follow through. What I can tell you is what it was like for my once-supportive (ex) wife, and this is not a matter of conjecture. Imagine yourself 20 or so years down the road and raising a family. Your husband's highlighted hair down to his bra strap, curly or straight depending on his mood and whether you're going to dinner or to the PTA meeting. His side of the vanity has more makeup and more hair curlers and curling irons than yours. He has more women's clothes than you. His skirts and dresses are shorter and his heels are higher. He wears a bra and panties even to work. You fear somebody innocently patting him on the back and feeling his bra strap. You can see the outline of his bra, and pray that others can't. His body is completely shaved. His nails are excessively long, and he wears polish every time it's just the two of you together. He's obsessive about getting mani-pedi's and having his brows done, even more than you.You know that it's inevitable that someone you know will see him at the nail salon or hair salon. You feel like you're sleeping with a woman every night. Your vacations together are all about him having an opportunity to wear things that he's not out enough to wear around your home town. Your hear comments from your friends and family. Some of them avoid being around him. They think something must be wrong with you to stay with somebody like him. A lot of people avoid you and him entirely. Nobody is welcome to stop by your house without advance notice. If they do, you have to cover for him while he changes, and you hope he doesn't overlook something when he finally comes out of the bathroom.

There are women who tolerate it. Situations where the good far outweighs the bad. Some who even enjoy it. Some who manage to overlook it. Some who think they can... until they can't. He may be a wonderful husband and father in every other conceivable way. I was. But, if the rest of it isn't your thing... just be aware. This is real life.

The part about him denying when he's obviously caught... That's one of those stupid things that people do. Such a ridiculous reaction. It's not only embarrassing to get caught, but embarrassing to deny it, yet we persist. This doesn't just relate to crossdressing. Years and years ago (keep in mind I was out to my wife) I pretended to leave for work when she did, but I came back, dressed, and went out for the day. Later she found something I left in one of her pockets and confronted me about it. The problem wasn't that I dressed, it was that I pretended to go to work (so I was goofing off while she was working) and that I wore her clothes (I had plenty of my own). I denied like crazy, and I was so obviously lying. Stupid.

Probably partly because my marriage failed, I LOVE to see those who succeed! There are several example on this forum. When it works, it's the most wonderful thing life has to offer. Just go into this with your WIDE open.

One other thing. I'd caution against falling for the "feel sorry for me" ploy. He's depressed, or other wise dealing with something deeply troubling and the prescription is wearing dresses and makeup. That's manipulative. I can be hard as hell to just admit the he just inexplicably enjoys wearing dresses and makeup (etc.) for no explainable reason. We can feel like there has to be a reason for the unexplainable, and it might as well be something that elicits sympathy.

Y'all have a lot to overcome, and a lot of soul searching ahead. I wish you the best.

[Anne K]

Excellent advice, Rhonda!

[Jenniferathome]

Tammy, prior to coming out to my wife, I had been desperately hoping that she would ask me about it. It was simple embarrassment and cowardice on my part. Had she asked me, I would have been embarrassed and grateful of the opportunity to talk about it. I can understand that your boyfriend is embarrassed but with an open door, I can not imaging anyone here NOT wanting to talk. Now, lying in the face of obviousness is a red flag to me. Being on a "dating site" is a HUGE red flag. Why is he on a dating site when he is dating you?!?!

You've given him several opportunities to come clean and he lies. He needs a bigger kick in the head, something like, "Honey, when you are ready to tell me EVERYTHING about your cross dressing, give me a call. Until then, I am moving on." Sometimes, ultimatums are the only shocks to the system that can get through.

Best of luck,

[Tammy494]

Wow, more great advice from more wonderful people. I appreciate everybody here.
The last few posts from people have taken a different turn and are forcing me to think more deeply into this.

Rhonda, I've been avoiding these thoughts for a while. I'm going to be completely honest here, and I'm going to say ahead of time that I don't want to offend anybody, & that I fully support all of you and who you all truly are as people.
But the truth is that although the dressing does not bother me, I honestly don't think I could be with somebody who truly wants to be a woman 100%. I'm not familiar with all of the terms, but I'd be okay if he wanted to be a part time woman I guess if that's the right way to put it. But if this were to consume our relationship, and if I felt more like I'm with a complete woman rather than at least a part man, I don't think It would work.
Everything Rhonda said is scary to think about. I don't think I could handle it if it got that far. Does it get that far for most CDs? I'd really like to hear what the extent of the crossdressing is for all of you.
I actually was planning the ultimatum for this past Wednesday but I found this website the night before and I decided to wait.
I need answers. I need the truth. I don't know what this means for him and I'm sure he doesn't either but I want him to bring me along for the journey for self discovery. Even if we ever did split, I would be more than happy to be his friend.

[Raychel]

Sounds to me like you have a pretty good handle on your thoughts.
I certainly am not a great one to be giving advice, But I feel you should have
a good talk with him and find out what he is thinking, where is planning on going with all of this.
keeping in mind, he may not know for sure, what he wants and how he feels this will turn out.

But you also need to know where your relationship is headed with him,
If this is something that you wish to deal with for the rest of our life or if
he will become a friend and you can find a better partner.

Either way it would be best for both of you to get this out in the open,

just my :2c:

[stacycoral]

Miss Tammy, girl i would have to agree with most of Rader's comments here, you must look out for yourself, He should really talk to you, not everyone has a woman that will share the time with us girls, i lucky that my SO knew before we were married and for over 25 years now, and she lets me be me most of the time, but you have to love and do what the other want too. So he really need to talk to you, and learn that he is a very lucky person to have you in his life, I wish you the best and pray that everything will work out for you, hugs girl.

[Dana44]

Tammy, Wow more has come out and that is troubling. Here is my take, You are distant from him and trying to find a path back to what you once had. I mentioned the Friday night thing as it is a romantic time for a couple to renew their week and romance. However, try it this week. You set the rules. Do not force talk. Feed him some grapes. Little talks and enjoy each other. It accomplishes two things. One he is going to think that you really love him. Two, it may open him up in a week or two. But take small baby steps. Tell him that you are there for him. Tell him about your confusion in two week but do not touch the cross dressing. But in perhaps three weeks and you and he are getting close again. Broach the subject and have him dress for you. If he does. Embrace it and say you will help him. And hey take me to a movie as our girl self and we will be two ladies out. Perhaps you and he can go shopping. I must say that you do need to do something. It seems that he is pretty private and it is hard for him to open up. But really we can accomplish better things with honey than we can with vinegar.

[Pat]

Everything Rhonda said is scary to think about. I don't think I could handle it if it got that far. Does it get that far for most CDs?

There aren't a lot of good statistics on male crossdressers. Some small-scale studies have been done that concluded that the majority are heterosexual, closeted (i.e. don't go out dressed) and not interested in transitioning. All you can get from this forum is people's individual stories, so it's good for getting a sense of the range of behavior, but not good for prediction of another individual's actions. So we can tell you all about ourselves, but it won't necessarily mean anything in regard to your sweetie. You have to get that information from him and, honestly, he might not know the answers. That's where gender counseling would help both of you out, but again, he has to want to do that.

[anton jon]

Hi Tammy, I think you should just grab the bull by the horns. Try remember his style from the clothes you found and go buy him an outfit, this is how my wife convinced me she was happy to share this part of me. Now only a few days later and already we are swapping clothes.
If you do try this and if he excepts your gift then maybe ask to borrow something out of his box. I don't know if this works for everyone but it worked for me. I went from having nothing and in the last few days I have a wardrobe that's filling fast, think my wife is enjoying it more than me, we play dress up together and we even have a laugh compeeting for who looks best in what clothes. ofcorse i look best lol. Remember he is hurting and his mind is racing just as much as yours, just be gentle with him and don't get angry at him if that's possible.
I hope it works out for you.

Wishing both of you the best future you can have together,

Anton jon

[IamWren]

"... I'm going to say ahead of time that I don't want to offend anybody, ... I honestly don't think I could be with somebody who truly wants to be a woman 100%. sweetie, i don't think you're going to offend anyone with a statement like that. I would dare say 99% of the those who have fully transitioned (meaning hormones, surgery, the whole enchilada) would not blame you even the tiniest bit for saying you would not want to be with somebody who wants to be a woman. I've been following the thread from the since you started it and don't recall you saying you are bisexual or even curious about being with a woman.



Everything Rhonda said is scary to think about. I don't think I could handle it if it got that far. Does it get that far for most CDs? I'd really like to hear what the extent of the crossdressing is for all of you.
There is a joke/one-liner told around here that goes: what's the difference between a CDer and a transwoman? The answer: two years. I'm not sure how that joke grabbed any traction ever.... because it's the furthest thing from the truth. Many CDers (this one included) have absolutely no interest in fully transitioning. We simply like to wear clothes that were intended for women to wear.
The extent of my crossdressing is that I hope to someday share it with my wife. Yes, I am married have a kid, am straight and the furthest I hope to go with it is have fun being feminine and that my wife would be able to share in that fun with a new girlfriend every once in a while.

The part of your thread that concerns me the most is what was the actual intent of using the dating app. The worst case scenario is that he hoping to find random hookups that would lead to YOU catching something that would lead to severe health problems.

I wish you the best. Know that you have found a group of "ladies" who I am certain are trying to give their best, honest and most sincere advice for your (as well as your boyfriend's) well being.

Big hugs,
Sayyidah 'Sue'

[ReineD]

What I have come to from everybody's advice is that, although he is not ready in any way shape or form, I do need answers.

What type of answers do you feel you need. If it's why he crossdresses, I don't think he can tell you. Or do you want to know why he posted the pictures. And even if you do get answers, they do not guarantee changes in behavior. So what you really need are changes in his behavior. You want him to stop hiding and lying because you want to know that he values you as much or more than he does the crossdressing. You want to know that you can meet his needs more than strangers on the internet.

I've gone through the rest of your post, and these are the options you wrote:


Holding off for a little bit even though you know you will not be able to last months or years longer for the truth (What truth ... why he does this? He likely doesn't know).
You do not want to push because he told you angrily that he would never do anything he is pushed to do.
Showing him this site.
Lightly asking him about counseling.
If you show him this site, possibly take space away from him a little bit.
Taking a lighter approach, although you're not quite sure how to go about this.
Work on taking care of your own needs.


Let's look at these, one at a time.

1. Holding off will only work if you think that he recognizes there is a problem in your relationship, and you trust that he is actively working toward solving it and he will either change his behaviors on his own, or talk to you when he wants to discuss any solution he will have found. So let me ask you ... do you think this scenario is realistic?

2. You do not want to push because you are afraid of making matters worse or losing him. Well, "pushing" would be demanding that he should dress in front of you, or demanding that he show you all the messaging with the people on the dating site, or demanding that he throw out his clothes, delete the dating site profile, and promise to not ever dress or think about dressing again. You are not wanting to do any of these things, you just want him to value you enough to stop hiding and lying. So do you think you are "pushing" him when you let him know that the hiding and lying (establishing your boundaries (http://www.suzannewelstead.com/resources/Boundaries.pdf)) is hurting you and your relationship?

3. Showing him this thread is one way of letting him know your inner turmoil. It certainly would be a conversation starter that might bring about eventual changes in behavior.

4. Counseling is a good option too. But I'm curious as to why you specified "lightly". Do you think that telling him you cannot live with the hiding and lying (again, defining your boundaries (http://www.suzannewelstead.com/resources/Boundaries.pdf)) is being over-bearing? Do you not have needs in this relationship as well?

5. I'm curious as to why you feel you might need to take space away from him if you show him this site. Are you afraid he will be angry with you for wanting to resolve a situation that is causing you a great deal of anxiety and stress? Are you afraid he will react violently?

6. Taking a lighter approach, might be buying panties or other clothes, or offer to paint his nails, etc, and just having fun crossdressing with him. Given that he keeps denying that he crossdresses, do you think he is ready to turn this around and relax enough to have fun crossdressing in front of you?

7. This is the one thing on the list that you do need to do, whether it is picking one of the solutions that would begin to lead to some sort of resolution (#2-this is not pushing, #3, #4, or #6), or walking away from the relationship because you are afraid of displeasing him by telling him you are not OK with the hiding and lying.

I'm sorry to be harsh, but you are the one who came here for help with a situation is causing you anxiety and stress. Your bf's current solution is to continue doing what he is doing, without involving you. So I'm pointing out that the situation will not resolve itself without any action on your part. My opinion? Tell him that you love him but the hiding and lying is cutting you to the core. And invite him to read this thread. He can be assured there is no way that anyone here can find out who he is, since none of us know who you are. I know the prospect of doing this is scary, but to do nothing will only make matters worse.

OR ... you might choose to do nothing and try to eventually become OK with the hiding and lying. We do have couples who are in DADT relationships (don't ask, don't tell) where the wives have found ways to compartmentalize the CDing and completely ignore its existence, which makes it easier for them to not face their anxieties, fears, and stress.

Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best.

[Alaina R]

"But the truth is that although the dressing does not bother me, I honestly don't think I could be with somebody who truly wants to be a woman 100%. I'm not familiar with all of the terms, but I'd be okay if he wanted to be a part time woman I guess if that's the right way to put it. But if this were to consume our relationship, and if I felt more like I'm with a complete woman rather than at least a part man, I don't think It would work."


I would not worry too much about him going too far- it could happen but my sense is that if you could truly have a representative sample of males who like/need to crossdress, you'd find the great majority don't take hormones, don't go full-time and keep it at a point where most acquaintances do not even know.
That said, I do see a lot of issues. You guys are really young and since you've already been together for 4 years this is likely the only real significant relationship you've had. That in of itself can be a challenge. I assume you were in, or just out of, high school when you two got together. As you grow up and continue to mature there will be many changes. For any young couple to have a decent chance to survive and thrive as they go through these changes requires a lot of communication, respect and honestly. So far he is not giving you that - I suspect a lot of the reason may come from just being too young. At 24 it is pretty easy to take a great girlfriend for granted while focusing on one's own issues. He needs to understand what you need in order to continue with him and I think you need to be clear about it. As many have pointed out, you can't fix him but the two of you can support each other if he is willing. I don't know if he will do it, and I seriously doubt he'll do it unless he feels he is on the verge of losing you, but it has to happen. Unless you can break through this wall (soon), I'd move on. Don't waste your 20's trying to fix him - you'll regret it.

[heatherdress]

Tammy - Why would you want to tolerate someone who lies repeatedly to you? Why would you want to be with someone who might be bi-sexual if that is not OK with you, and won't discuss it with you,? Why would you want to be with someone who is on a dating site, and denies it? Why would you want to be with someone who won't open up to you? Do you think he is going to change? Do you think he will be honest about other issues and problems?

You have been more than understanding but take care of yourself. I would think you can find a boyfriend who can offer you honesty, and intimacy - someone you can trust.

[Rhonda Jean]

Tammy,
I may not have been clear. I'm not transitioning. Not then, not now. Never intended to. I DID push things way too far, and did all those things that I described and then some. But, this was all within the parameters of merely being a crossdresser. A damned dedicated one, but still just a crossdresser.

Although it was clear to me what I was and was not, my wife, after a few decades of this, came to believe that I was a woman. I guess in a way that's what I wanted, or thought I did. I learned to be careful what I wish for. She didn't want to be with a woman, and finally reached her limit. I suppose she'd been unhappy for a long time, but hid it well.

Most do not do as I did. Most stop well short of that. They'd probably like to, but they have a little more restraint than I did. On the other hand, some go even further. Still under the umbrella of crossdresser, not transsexual.

[Kieroney]

Hello Tammy I would like to respond to alot of issues your having with your boyfriend but I see your not able receive private messages.

[GeorgeA]

Hello Tammy,

I am delighted to have met you through this forum. You seem to be a delightful person and express your concern so well. You have received lots of advice from so many people, most of it very good and it should help you do decide the course of action.

In her previous post Rhonda Jean presented a scenario that might be somewhat frightening. Keep in mind that not all crossdressers are like that. I`m not sure (perhaps you are not too) to what extent does your bf crossdresses. There are countless varieties, perhaps as many as there are CDs.

I, for one, am what is considered ``man in skirts``. I do not attempt to look like a woman, do not use makeup, jewellery, or women`s shoes. I have a moustache & goatee. I wear lingerie, nylons & skirts. I consider myself a man, perhaps not overly mucho, bot not effeminate either. I feel more comfortable in such attire than in masculine garb.

Perhaps your BF falls into a similar pattern and does not want to be a woman.

You are a fantastic woman and I wish I had known someone like you when I was your age.

Good luck,

[Demi88]

I agree with heatherdress. Look for someone you can trust.

[Jenniferathome]

... I'd really like to hear what the extent of the crossdressing is for all of you. ...

Tammy, I thought I'd answer your question but remember everyone is really different. The umbrella, "cross dresser" might apply but there is nuance upon nuance. When I dress, it's all or nothing, which means clothes, makeup, wig, the full monty (well, I guess the inverse full monty). I do this on average, twice a month. When I dress, I prefer to go out but that doesn't always work out. Sometimes, I just sort of "practice" makeup techniques or creating an outfit (this is way harder for a guy than you might think.) My wife if perfectly comfortable with me being dressed in front of her. We've been married over 25 years and she has known for only about 5.

Now, with regard to some of the comments here, I can not imagine a worse thing than putting yourself in the position of buying him clothes or taking any responsibility for his cross dressing. You are doing everything you can reasonably do already: you have opened the door to open discussion. If he can't talk to you, he does not deserve you. I like to ask this this question about people to remove the emotional component: if he were a stock, would you buy it?

Best of luck, Tammy

[Tammy494]

I read absolutely every word on here but I am with him right now and it doesn't provide me the time I need to fully respond to everybody right now. I will be back tomorrow, as I will have the entire day alone to myself. To everybody that has responded, you are all beautiful people inside and out and I will address all of your wonderful insight and advice tomorrow, I promise. 💜

[Tashee]

The dating site could be harmless, just him looking for others with the same interest. Not sure id you mentioned what that was? I have a girl pal-Whom was in the same boat but his preference when he finally got to talking 24 months later 2 years, she found out his male preference was stronger than his female attraction/sexually. Don't go in biased and blind see what signs there are there maybe some warning signs for you. I could say he is damned blessed to have you as many wonderful folks would love I mean LOVE to have a woman of you persona with them. I think he maybe in need of what you cant give him. You may try only to find years and tears of your life slipped through our tiny hour glass called life. You have a RIGHT to be happy too. I'm not giving any advice except please keep your woman's intuition & please look for signs good and bad--Clothes doesn't make the man-Your right--But truthfulness & communication make a relationship-I believe that with ALL my HEART--Blessings.

[donnalee]

Although I am coming very late to this thread, I can see a few things that have not been addressed and are quite pertinent.
I see words like confront, accuse, lie, and others indicating quite a bit of anger in your original post. Although the situation is obviously upsetting to you, a confrontational approach is about the worst way I can think of to proceed. Back off for a while, demand nothing and avoid the subject until things calm down to the point that you may be able to start having a conversation without being defensive on either of your parts. A gentle question will elicit a much more helpful response than accusations and demands.
The one thing that you must keep in mind is that whatever your concerns or confusions may be, his are far more intense. He is having a much harder time accepting himself than you are accepting him and he is also having a difficult time figuring out what is going on with himself.
Be gentle.

[sometimes_miss]

Ok. I've read through the whole thread and have observed a few things. And like donnalee, there are things that aren't being addressed. and like donnalee, I agree that confontation at this point is not appropriate, because there is a whole lot going on. First, Tammy, you're in way over your head, coming to an online forum and getting every sort of advice under the sun. There are very few professionals here, and a whole lot of us who can only offer our own experience, which by the way, are not likely to be exactly like your boyfriend's situation, so perhaps none of what you read here can be applicable. Or, perhaps something can, but there's no way to know which is and which is not. Pursuing any of our advice could be a disaster.
What you, and he, need to do, is sit down together with a gender specialist counselor and start discussion THERE. It may take a while to get it sorted out. But what you're doing right now, isn't likely to work out well in the long run.
Next, and this is a big one, you've been together for 4 years. There's his reason for the dating app, an escape fantasy. You're past the magic 30 month point where the excitement of a new relationship generates that euphoric feeling . People start to want that feeling again, and it isn't found in 'old relationships'. Sometimes it's revivable in fantasies, enough to keep our desire to stray, in check. Maybe that's what he's doing. men in their 20's have such a strong sexual drive that it's on their mind constantly.


Honesty trumps everything.
Usually. But no one is ever completely honest. Everyone lies about something, or conveniently 'leaves somethings out' because they don't think it matters. At other times, they leave things out because they wish it didn't matter. And that's rarely admitted, because people like to believe that they are honest. No one tells their mate everything, because it's simply not possible to recount every moment of your life. You tell what you believe needs to be told. The problem lies in that we cannot know what we must tell.



maybe some of you can fill me in on whether or not you were intimate and very into a female before you realized you liked men too?
Sometimes it's not that we're actually into men. We're into behaving like we believe women do, in order to feel like one, for whatever reason, and it doesn't have to be transsexually derived desires (my own history is one example of that). Doesn't matter who we are with when we do that. And a man doesn't need to be attracted to men in order to want to be the receptive participant in sex; but there are so few women who can easily take on the active role and 'run the show' sexually that for most of us, that's only a fantasy which will never be reality. and sometimes it's manifested by desires to behave as the female in sex. But some men feel that, and don't know why, so they think they might be gay or bi, but aren't. It's not a simple either/or answer. And the only way to figure it out, is by each individual figuring out exactly where the desire to behave in a particular way, comes from. Until you figure that out, the rest will remain confusing.

if you are not OK with your bf sourcing sexual gratification outside of your relationship then you need to let him know.
This is a common belief that I hear from women, that all sexual thoughts MUST be of your mate, or it's tantamount to cheating. Not going to happen. And to believe that it can is simply burrying your head in the sand. Men think about sex all day long. Every time we see a hot women, our minds go to sex. Whether it's considered acceptable or not. If married women think that their husbands never masturbate and think about other women, you're deluding yourselves. And don't bother asking your husbands about this, because no husband in his right mind will ever admit it, because we know you'll feel 'cheated' the we even think about another women.

What's the difference between a CDer and a transwoman? The answer: two years.'
The biggest problem with this is, people tend to believe it. However what isn't explained, is that as most crossdressers start doing it as kids, when is that two year period over? And if it's true, why aren't all crossdressers TS by the time we're in high school? Simple. It doesn't happen, and the theory is not true.

[jenni_xx]

What you, and he, need to do, is sit down together with a gender specialist counselor and start discussion THERE.

I agree completely with your post sometimes_miss, with the exception of this part.

This is not going to happen. For it to happen would require Tammy's boyfriend to tell Tammy the "truth" (I put that in inverted commas because we are all presuming what the truth actually is).

Tammy, you know your boyfriend better than anyone here ever will. The best feedback you can receive from anyone here relates to tapping into our own experiences and then drawing your conclusions from such experiences and seeing which ones may strike a chord with the situation that you're currently going through.

Also, please please please do not fall for the trap of linking crossdressing to sexuality. It could be the case that your boyfriend is gay, or bi, just as it could be the case that anyone else's boyfriend is gay or bi, irrespective of whether they cross dress or not. There are gay cd'ers on this site - I'm gay myself - but the vast majority are heterosexual, and any thoughts or fantasies that may be expressed are not born out of wanting to be with a man, but to rather seek validation in presenting as a woman. In such cases, these are by far just a fantasy, no more no less, and the individual in question will have no desires on actually acting on such a scenario.

This could be what your boyfriend was seeking by going onto dating sites. I highly doubt that your boyfriend is gay or bi, or that he ever had any intention of taking it further than just receiving some attention.

If it is the case that your boyfriend is a cd, and he is refusing to open up to you about it, I completely emphasise with your situation. But you can not force the issue, so please don't. If your boyfriend isn't ready to open up about it, then all any probing into the matter will achieve is to push him deeper into the proverbial cd closet.

It is a tough situation and I genuinely wish you all the very best. xx

[Tammy494]

I am back today, with the whole day to myself. I'm going to probably write a very long response to everybody. But first I need to talk about what happened this morning. So I've been on this forum on my phone regardless of whether or not I've been in the same room with John. I've just made sure that he couldn't see. However I went to show him something on my phone yesterday and I clicked safari by accident which brought up my thread. I quickly got out of it and he didn't say anything but then this morning when I woke up and went to go on here I saw that my history was up.... I'm almost positive that he has snooped and found out that I've been on here. however he said absolutely nothing about it when we woke up. He's been fine, in a good mood... Made me pancakes, hasn't been weird at all. Part of me is a little excited that he caught me on here because maybe it will bring him here without me pushing. The other part of me thinks he may just ignore it... I really hope that's not what happens. I have mixed emotions right now. I don't believe I have done anything wrong, none of you know us and couldn't possibly find out who we are.. Thoughts on this?

Okay now I've received so so many replies. And for the record I appreciate everything, even the people who give me their true opinions even if it may hurt. It's been so hard having nobody to talk to for so long and all of this is so overwhelming but in the best way possible.
Dana, I would truly love to try what you have suggested, however it tends to be hard for me to be intimate like that with him. He's stuck on his phone almost all day doing sports bets and checking scores and doing everything and anything you can imagine with sports on his phone. It's truly an obsession and it's hard to pull him away from that. But maybe I can get him to agree to one night without it and I will break open a bottle of wine and show him I love him.

"But really we can accomplish better things with honey than we can with vinegar" I love this by the way and I will keep that in mind.

Now Reine, you have taken a lot of time to individually address each and every option that I mentioned and I really appreciate that. You've helped me to truly think into each option and if it's really even an option at all. After a lot of input I think you're right that holding off is not realistic. I am only holding off at this moment because I'm not sure what to do.
I guess I feel like I'm pushing because I now understand how hard it must be to admit but at the same time, you're right I'm only asking for him to stop lying. I'm just a very empathetic person and I really feel for him and what he must be going through and everybody here says that he is not ready and that "pushing" won't help.
As for showing him this site.. Well I think he has found out by snooping. So that happened on its own.
I said "lightly" suggest counseling because I don't want him to think that I think there is something wrong with him. He is a very defensive person and I'm afraid that he would take offense when being asking to see a counselor. But also what you said is true also, I am afraid of being over bearing. But you're right, I have needs too.
The reason I thought about showing him this site and then taking space from him was to kinda give him time to take it all in and feel better about it maybe and then maybe after a little time he would be able to talk to me.
And lastly no I definitely don't think he's ready to dress in from of me or have fun with this. I hope to get to that point but I don't think he is comfortable enough for that yet.
None of this was harsh at all, you brought reality to each scenario so thank you for that.


To everybody else, thank you so so much for answering my question about how far cross dressing goes for you. I know everybody is different and that your individual situations may not apply to John. However it helped me in the way that I now know that there is a huge umbrella over crossdressing. And that there is a very wide spectrum regarding how far it goes. I now realize the need is different for everybody and that NOT ALL cross dressers wish to transition. This was something I needed to realize.

I also definitely hear what others of you are saying in regards to whether or not I should be with somebody who I can't trust, who lies and that I can't spend my 20s trying to fix him. Believe me, I agree with you 100%.
But I've just never been one to give up. I don't want to FIX him because I don't believe he is broken. I think he is just fighting a war inside himself. What I truly want is for him to STOP lying and to at least let me be there for him to support him even if he doesn't know exactly how to explain everything to me just yet. I know this may never happen, and I want you all to know that I am most definitely working on looking out for myself more. It's something I have a habit of not doing. If this does not improve in a few months in any way shape or form, I will have to leave. I already know that. This is sorta like a fresh wound, it only happened in July and some of you say you took YEARS to be honest with your SOs.
I'm trying my best to get a handle on this and I really hope now that he caught me on here which I'm almost positive he has, that maybe he'll start reading everything. Otherwise I will be taking baby steps with approaching this little by little. I think him seeing this site is maybe the safest approach right now but I could be wrong.

Also I'd like to add that using this on my iPhone is a big pain in the butt!! Somebody mentioned that they can't message me and I seem to have very limited access to things on my phone here. My laptop is at home, I haven't had it so I may go get it today. I hope this is easier on a computer :(

- - - Updated - - -


Hello Tammy,

I am delighted to have met you through this forum. You seem to be a delightful person and express your concern so well. You have received lots of advice from so many people, most of it very good and it should help you do decide the course of action.

In her previous post Rhonda Jean presented a scenario that might be somewhat frightening. Keep in mind that not all crossdressers are like that. I`m not sure (perhaps you are not too) to what extent does your bf crossdresses. There are countless varieties, perhaps as many as there are CDs.

I, for one, am what is considered ``man in skirts``. I do not attempt to look like a woman, do not use makeup, jewellery, or women`s shoes. I have a moustache & goatee. I wear lingerie, nylons & skirts. I consider myself a man, perhaps not overly mucho, bot not effeminate either. I feel more comfortable in such attire than in masculine garb.

Perhaps your BF falls into a similar pattern and does not want to be a woman.

You are a fantastic woman and I wish I had known someone like you when I was your age.

Good luck,

Salerba, thank you SO much for this reply. I'm only now realizing I can quote people on my phone. I really REALLY believe that this may be the kind of CD that he is. I haven't found any wigs and there have been no signs of any of my makeup being touched. Again, I could totally be wrong. But you're just yet another wonderful soul showing me that not everybody who CDs takes it as far as some others do. Though I do NOT jjudge those who do. And thank you so much, I'm glad you and many others on here view me as a fantastic woman. You are fantastic also, and everybody else on here too.


Also something I forgot to say in my last post, I do not in any way expect him to only have sexual energy for only me. I obviously don't want him acting on sexual energy with other people, however fantasy does not bother me.
I myself have plenty of sexual energy also. It's not always directed in my relationship either. I have plenty of fantasies and kinks. If this is mostly a sexual thing for him then I think we could have fun with it maybe. Anyway all I'm saying is that yes I totally am aware that men are very sexual beings and think about sex a lot. So do women! Or me at least.

My eyes, heart and mind are open about everything that's going on right now. I now know every possibility, now it all just needs to be taken step by step,

- - - Updated - - -

Oh one last thing, I know everybody has a different opinion and worry about the dating app. I understand what it could and could not mean from everything all of you have said. If me and him are able to get to the point where we can talk about things, I hope he is able to explain it to me. However I really REALLY don't think he was going out to meet people. I really think it has to do with attention and rebelling, validation and acceptance. If his face were in the pictures I may have been more worried but I just really think he wanted some attention from strangers to make himself feel good and to have to fantasy of being seen as sexy by other people. I'll say again, I could be wrong! But I've tried to follow my gut with all of this and I mean my gut has led me to find out everything. So if my gut isn't telling me the dating site is a danger then for now I won't view it as one for sure. I will still keep it in mind, that it could be a huge issue. I promise.

[Amy Fakley]

Tammy,

I have one suggestion, and that is to not be so passive in communicating with him. You're hoping he'll open up by simply discovering this site on your phone. You don't really know if he even saw it.

You need less uncertainty in communication with him, not more.

You are entitled to have feelings, and you are entitled to know WTF is going on in your relationship. He might not be ready to share the depths of his soul with you, and that's understandable. But you at the very least deserve to know "message received? Yes or No" ... y'know?

This is a public thread. You don't need an account here to read it.

Since you are both clearly tech-literate, I suggest you copy the link for page 1 of this thread, and txt it to him with a kind note ... maybe some thing like "you should know I love you, and you should know you're not alone, read this when you have time and let's talk" ... done and done.

No more guessing if he got the message or not.

[jenni_xx]

Do not show him this thread. Nothing good will come of that. Instead, take on board what people have said and use the advice that you feel is best suited to your situation, that is best able to help you move forward in your relationship.

[ReineD]

Do not show him this thread. Nothing good will come of that.

Why on earth not! Tammy wants her bf to be transparent (she wants him to own up to dressing and posting profiles on dating sites) and it is only fair that she should provide transparency in return.

The entire business of keeping secrets and not being above board I'm afraid is embedded in way too many CDers and when you think of it, these behaviors are dysfunctional.

Emotionally healthy people accept themselves and others for who they are. They recognize that we all have issues and struggles to overcome, and even though it may be embarrassing, for the sake of emotional honesty in a relationship it is best to discuss things and this applies to Tammy as well. It is perfectly understandable that she was so distraught over her bf's behaviors, that she reached out and sought help since her bf was not willing to discuss things with her. There's nothing wrong with Tammy's attempt to try to understand. What she did was a great deal better than not discuss this with anyone and let it fester to the point of souring from her relationship and walking away, or even worse, becoming so angry as to tell all her bf's family and acquaintances what she knows in retribution.

[mykell]

hi tammy,
you are a gem, so many would have kicked him to the curb by now, gambling, obsessed with sports, always preoccupied and crossdressing, posting photos on dating site while dressed !!!! hes a lucky person !!!

amys idea actually seems very good to me, its out in the open about the photos and the clothes.... i think he will read so much on here that it will strike the right nerve, it did for me, reading so many posts from others that could have been written by me totally blows your mind, i joined two days later...

the thing i like the most is that it will be immediate, it will either help or it wont....your decision will be that much easier, if he cant see that you are the gem you need to get credit for by all the steps you have taken then dare i say he may not deserve you....

[sometimes_miss]

Emotionally healthy people accept themselves and others for who they are. .
Yes, but it sounds like her BF isn't on stable ground with himself yet. It appears he's still in discovery mode. Her telling the world about his behavior may very well seem like sharing secrets that he doesn't want known. It comes down to a matter of privacy; when I was growing up, girls were very distraught if a boy talked about how far he went with a girl, but those very same girls would discuss everything about the boys with their girlfriends. When I would ask how they could betray their boyfriends like that, they would always say 'OH, but this is different, these are my friends'. Women often seem to have a double standard about what they can talk about with their friends, and what their male mates are 'allowed' to talk to their friends about.
If my ex wife had gone behind my back and told everyone about my crossdressing and related behaviors, I know that I would have been VERY upset. This is apparently not something he wants generally known. Which is why I suggested a professional who is by law required to keep whatever they say, confidential.
And frankly, any women who would out her ex to everyone because she was angry about something, ought to be tarred and feathered. My ex blackmailed me like that during my divorce, threatening to expose my crossdressing to my entire family, friends, and co-workers. That's juvenile behavior at it's worst.

[Nadine Spirit]

The entire business of keeping secrets and not being above board I'm afraid is embedded in way too many CDers and when you think of it, these behaviors are dysfunctional.



Thank you Reine! I totally agree.

Tammy - if there is one piece of advise I can offer you - the absolute best thing for your relationship is for the two of you to figure out how to be able to talk to each other about anything at anytime. And while it sounds as if you are trying, he sounds as though he is quite fearful. It will take effort on HIS part to get over his own internal fears.

Good luck!

[PaulaQ]

Tammy,

A few points.

1. Your boyfriend appears to be dealing with two issues, gender identity and sexuality. Dealing with both at the same time is really confusing.

2. Your boyfriend can be bisexual even if he never has sex with another guy. That does not mean he will cheat on you. There are these weird ideas about bisexuality that tend to erase it's existence. That is one of them. Many bisexuals are happily monogamous in opposite sex relationships.

3. His dating app activity, coupled with the obvious lying, unfortunately, doesn't suggest he's being faithful to you. It's a bad sign, anyway.

Have you considered giving him an ultimatum - "Tell me the truth, or leave?" You've caught him - to continue lying to you is disrespectful and frankly kind of abusive. Maybe giving him consequences for lying will help. Confused or not, you deserve the truth, at least as he understands it. Yes, he'll be afraid to tell it. He needs to tell it to you anyway.

[Isabella Ross]

So many good opinions and advice. The only thing I could add is that I agree with Reine...he needs to read this entire thread. In fact, put it in black and white -- print it off, staple it together, and leave it on his pillow. More difficult to avoid that way. I'm also concerned about the dating app aspect, but I would add that he sounds like me 25 years ago in many respects. It is incredibly difficult to shake off our shame and self-loathing, particularly if we grew up in macho/conservative environments.

[heatherdress]

....I don't want him to think that I think there is something wrong with him....

....He is a very defensive person....

....should I be with somebody who I can't trust, who lies....

....I don't want to FIX him because I don't believe he is broken....

....What I truly want is for him to STOP lying....

....the dating site ...could be a huge issue


I think lack of integrity is much more important than him wearing panties. Directly lying when confronted, hiding being on a dating site, snooping on your phone, him being very defensive - all are big red problem flags. Don't get lost in the fog of trying to understand crossdressing and transgender behavior. Don't fool yourself with poor excuses -you don't give up, you are very empathetic, you feel sorry for him. He is directly lying to you and probably thinks he can continue to do so - you let him.

I do not want to be judgmental, and I do not know you or your boyfriend, but I know the pain, hurt and disappointment I had in my life when I ignored my red flags and stuck with someone for a long time that I should not have been with. I was empathetic, I felt sorry for her and I did not want to give up.

I wish you both the best.

[anton jon]

Hi again tammy, I agree with so much that people said and I find I am getting a little confused with how I would deal with things. Thinking more about my first post and rereading your post many time has helped me see that I agree with you. I am with my wife 10 years and I only came out to her a few days ago but I never hid it from her, when I came out to my wife she explained that she knew, I made sure she knew from the second we met, when we met I was very open but I also told her about all of me but in such a way that I was being honest but just didn't come out untill I felt ready. Yourself and john have a very different story to ours and he is not ready.

To answer your fears about getting traced or tracked, it would be very hard for the avarage person but you don't need to worry one little bit about that. We are not like that, we all care for you both and are only here to help, we can all relate to your story in some way and sure why would anyone want too, their is nothing to gain from doing something so heartless and disrespectful. We are warm caring people who came here to learn, make friends and to support each other as best we can . The team who run this site do so in such a pro way that if a fool like that got into the site they would not last long. We are very safe and protected here by the team but also we look out for eachother.
I hope this helps you feel better.

I don't want to be a woman I am very happy with being a man, I truly don't fully understand why I dress well I didn't until I came out to my wife and myself at the same time and joined this site. Now I fully embrace who I am and see myself as not that troll I say anthony as but I can see what my wife sees. A strong man who is handsome and her knight in shining armor but as a women I am softer but sexy and still her knight just in shining leather :).

As for the dating site I too joined a dating site but before I met my wife, just before. I joined a russian bride site but not for a bride or even for a date. Because I felt so ugly on the outside i lost all my confidence so I joined to help me feel attractive and to get my confidance back. It worked perfectly and if I didn't join that site I would have never made a move on my wife. John might have been doing the same or might have been just trying to feel like he fit in and was accepted.

How you move forward I don't know but to echo what many others have said, a relationship built on lies is doomed to fail and his honesty will free you both from a whole lot of pain but it will take time, baby steps.
I agree at this stage in time he simply does not deserve you and if he is not honest he never will deserve you.

I am not a church person but I pray you both work this out it the least painfull way.

I have so much respect for you and I wish I could just hug you both and take this pain away.

Anton jon.

[Tracii G]

I agree with Jenniferathome tell him you are going to take some time away from him.
Tell him lying is not an option and you won't tolerate it.
You leave or he leaves whichever and when he is ready to talk you will be more than happy to listen.
Sometimes an ultimatum is hard but necessary.
If I were in your situation I would have kicked him to the curb just for not being open and honest with me.
If I truly loved him yes it would hurt but I would get over it.

[GeorgeA]

Tammy,

You mentioned that John is obsessed with sports and it's difficult for you to drag him away. This with his continuing lies and denials shows that he has a lot of growing up to do. You said that you were younger than he, but your attitudes and expressions indicate that you are much more mature than he is.

Tracii said: Sometimes an ultimatum is hard but necessary. I agree. You should put your foot down and demand that he changes his behaviour. If he has any brains at all, and I think he does, he will conform to your requests. The possibility of losing such a caring and supportive woman should be an awakening for him.

This thread is one of the most interesting ones in a long time. We have all banded together to help a young couple to resolve their problems. We all seem to care about those two who were complete strangers just a few weeks ago. It just shows how great our community here is. Just think of the lengths and depths of some of the posts were. In the process we all learned something.

Let's hope we will hear some good news soon.

P.S.Perhaps it would be a good idea for John to join this forum. He can learn a lot here.

[Karren H]

If he won't tell you the truth..... is stealing your clothes..... and is "dating" behind you back.... dump him and go find someone else... NOW!! RUN!!!!

[UNDERDRESSER]

Hey Karen, wondered what had happened to you, nice to see you back.

Don't always agree with what you say, but you always make the place more lively.

Tammy, I get the feeling that your BF needs to grow up, big time. You seem to be more mature than him, even though you are younger, but I don't feel you have the "clout" to push him on his way. I would guess that he is a big ball of guilt, stress, shame, confusion, and selfishness. I'd be tempted to drop an ultimatum on him. "I can stand by you through this, if you want me to, but I'm not going to be lied to or fobbed off any more. Call me in a few days if can get your head straight."

The risk is that he won't get himself straight. Honestly, while it will hurt, if that is the case I think you're better off.

[Judith96a]

Tammy,
I have no answers but I may have some insight into what your BF may be thinking / feeling. He is probably deeply (more deeply than you can imagine) embarrassed by you knowing anything about his cross dressing. That can lead to totally irrational behaviour, for instance continuing to deny that which is blatantly obvious (been there, got the T shirt). Also, despite anything and everything that you've said to the contrary, he is probably 110% certain that if he tells all you'll leave him (and most likely sell your story to CNN!). A totally irrational fear? Yes! I'm not suggesting that you'd do any such thing but I remember being his age and being paranoid about anyone, especially a prospective GF, finding out about my 'dirty little secret'.
Advice? I really don't know. If you really are for staying, then you need to convince him that he's totally safe with you - no matter what - otherwise he will continue to evade telling you the truth. That is likely to be tricky (knowing exactly what to do) and, in the short term, painful / stressful. Only you can decide if he's worth it to you. If you're not for staying, then do both of you a favour and end it now, as gently as you can but firmly.

[Rhonda Jean]

You've received some fabulous advice (opinions) from a group of people who are as well versed in this as anybody on the planet. I want to make one more tiny point of distinction, as least from my view. You empathize/sympathize with him for all he's "going through". My take on what he's going through...

Perhaps this is a distinction without a difference, but to me it wasn't/isn't that I was going through something horrible when I couldn't dress, it was the fact that when I did it was so overwhelmingly euphoric! In other words, I could pretty much go on with normal (male) life. I'd look forward to the time I could. I'd plan and daydream about it, but I wasn't in anguish. Of course, I never had to go long without doing it, so I might have a different opinion if couldn't have done that. For me, it's just a part of me that I get more out of (whatever "more" is) than almost anything else I do. I wish this thing we do would be taken more at face value than always made into something so incredibly heavy. Part of me (but not all of me) is feminine, or what is usually thought of as being female. That's certainly the way I view myself, and I simply LOVE dressing that way. It's really no more complicated than that. I can still be a good husband, a good father, a good employee, a respected member of the community. I'm really a very ordinary person. A crossdresser is not all I am. Don't take this to mean that it's ONLY the clothes. If I didn't have this feminine aspect I wouldn't care about the clothes. They're an offshoot of my self identity. I think it may be the best part of me. It's certainly the most fun. But the male part of me is also pretty good! The heightened enjoyment, anticipation, and emphasis on my female side partly comes because I can't/don't have to do it all the time.

So often this thing gets blown way out of proportion by both sides. It didn't/doesn't have to be that way with me, and I suspect the vast majority of others. Do I/we NEED to do it? Well, I could survive without it. But it's something that I enjoy doing more than anything else. Life is to be enjoyed! So, when you get right down to it, what's wrong with it? I'm not stupid. I'm fully aware of all the problems and prejudices people have with it and I know I have to be careful to not undo the rest of my life to satisfy this other part. But look at it for what it is. Is there really anything wrong with shaving legs, wearing nail polish, wearing heels, long hair, etc., etc., etc.? I don't think, and I was never taught, that there was anything wrong with those things. And if those things are something that brings great happiness, what's wrong with that.

We ALL (me included) often make this such a deep and heavy thing with all sorts of negative connotations. The negative part is the lying, sneaking around, and developing and cultivating this aspect of ourselves out of the sight and knowledge of our SO's. Ahhh, but what if the SO is part of the majority who has a huge problem with it? There's the rub. It's a vicious circle.

It's dangerous to be standing on this soapbox in heels! Stepping down now.

[ReineD]

It's dangerous to be standing on this soapbox in heels! Stepping down now.

No need to step down, Rhonda ... you're doing a great job explaining the motives, IMO. :)

[Laurie A]

One thing I like about this thread is that it deals with issues that I believe most of us have struggled with. Hiding in shame and striving to resolve our guilt. I think its nearly impossible to be emotionally healthy unless one resolves these issues. And if you have ever have loved a person who is emotionally unstable, for what ever reason, you know how difficult it can be. It's actually why I joined this forum to begin with.

[Tammy494]

Hello everybody, sorry that I haven't replied since yesterday. I've just been doing a lot of thinking, but I've read everything that you've all written. I really appreciate some of you saying that I seem very mature, I've been told that by other people that I know also. It's taken a lot to get to this point and when this initially started with me finding the pictures online, I was not where I am now. I was angry and confused and I jumped to conclusions immediately. I read a lot, even before I found this site and it helped me to rationalize the situation. But this place has helped me in ways way beyond that.
It's a beautiful thing that so many amazing people have come together to give their sincere and caring advice and opinions. I still have not used this site on my computer but once I get my laptop id like to read some of your stories and journeys. You're all incredible people and I'm so happy that you have all found comfort here at this forum and that so many of you are finally at peace with yourself. I don't know the word for it, but I've always been the type of person who really feels for other people. I feel so deeply for the emotions of others. I think that is why this is so hard for me, because I don't want to make this even harder for John.


I think I've decided that I will need to give an ultimatum in some form. I know if I were to give this more time without approaching the situation, I would develop a DADT mentality and that Is NOT what I want. If that were to happen, something else will just end up popping up and I'll go through this all over again. It's already happened the past few months... i decided to ignore it and it only made it that much worse when i found something else.
I don't know exactly how to go about giving this ultimatum. I don't wanna come across as too harsh but I want him to take me seriously also. It's so hard because this past week, we've been getting along great but everything just hangs over my head like a big gray cloud. I'm thinking maybe I can print out some of this to give to him but idk. I just really love him and I don't want the ultimatum to cause us to split, but I want him to let me love him for who he truly is and I can't do that with all of these lies in our relationship.
Today I'm not really in a good state of mind, I'm feeling very anxious and sad. I have anxiety to begin with but sometimes like today it causes me to feel depressed and not want to get out of bed or go to work or talk to anybody.
I will be working on getting my head together over the next few days and then I will have to prepare for this ultimatum. I also need to prepare for him to shut down even with the ultimatum and I'll need to accept that if that's the case.I will have to move on. I'm hoping that the worst case scenario is that maybe he won't talk to me for a few days but then maybe he will realize and will want to talk.
I hope the realization that he could lose me will help him to grow up. I think he is stuck in the present, and in his negative feelings. I think the sports betting is a distraction because it gives him something to focus on to avoid from thinking about other things. But he's also been a sports fanatic since I met him. The obsessive betting and checking scores/watching EVERY game only started the past year or two. Anyway I hope the ultimatum will bring on some change even if it takes some time.

I just really can't express my gratitude towards all of you. You really helped me to understand everything more and that crossdressing is not the same for everybody. You're all extremely smart, kind and beautiful people and you all deserve the best in life. What I think is also extraordinary is that you're all able to admit your past mistakes whether it be about lying or hiding or self loathing. Most of you seem like you're so past that and accept and love yourselves now! I only hope that John can get to that point. However I understand this is a self discovery period in his life and that he is very young. I really hope I can take all of this advice and use it to heal our relationship and to help him to open up more.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and I forgot that I just wanted to say to Rhonda that i would truly love for this to not be so heavy. If he were to be open about this, and become comfortable with me, I hope it could become less negative or not negative at all. I want him to be happy, and i think maybe we could have fun with it. i don't think of the dressing as a heavy topic anymore, especially after you said that and after coming here. Youre totally right, It's the lying and hiding that is heavy and negative. But I hope he realizes that I still view him as the same man I fell in love with regardless of how he is dressed. Thank you for all of your insight. :)

[PaulaQ]

I think I've decided that I will need to give an ultimatum in some form. I know if I were to give this more time without approaching the situation, I would develop a DADT mentality and that Is NOT what I want. If that were to happen, something else will just end up popping up and I'll go through this all over again. It's already happened the past few months... i decided to ignore it and it only made it that much worse when i found something else.

I don't know exactly how to go about giving this ultimatum. I don't wanna come across as too harsh but I want him to take me seriously also. It's so hard because this past week, we've been getting along great but everything just hangs over my head like a big gray cloud. I'm thinking maybe I can print out some of this to give to him but idk. I just really love him and I don't want the ultimatum to cause us to split, but I want him to let me love him for who he truly is and I can't do that with all of these lies in our relationship.

I appreciate how hard this is for you.

I think you need to stress to him that his stories, when combined with the things you've discovered, are simply not credible, and that every day he does NOT tell you the truth, he undermines your relationship because you cannot trust him if he lies to you consistently. Tell him his defensiveness and obviously false stories only reinforce that he is hiding something from you, and that you need to know what it is, at least in a broad sense. He needs to be candid, open, and honest, even though you are fairly sure this may be difficult because of what he may ultimately reveal. Stress to him that trust is essential to any relationship, and right now, you don't trust him. Each day he doesn't explain himself to you, you lose more trust. Trust is something that isn't easily regained, and the truth is, even though you desperately want the relationship to go on, at some point, if you can't trust him, continuing it will simply become impossible.

Tell him you need answers to at least a few questions:
"1. Please explain your cross dressing to me. I have seen the pictures, there is no question that it's you. I have been studying this, and talking online to people who crossdress, and I'm willing to be open minded. What is your history? How often do you do this? Tell me about this part of you please - I want to understand because I love you!
2. Please explain your activity on the dating site. What were you doing? Have you just looked around? Flirted with people? Met with someone else there? I need the truth here, because without it, I can only assume the worst, and I desperately don't want to do that. There is nothing you can tell me, though, that we can't work through."

Were I in your situation, I believe those are the types of things I'd say. Best of luck.

[ReineD]

I think I've decided that I will need to give an ultimatum in some form. ...
I don't know exactly how to go about giving this ultimatum. I don't wanna come across as too harsh but I want him to take me seriously also.

I spoke to my SO about your situation. First let me say that my SO has been CDing since puberty (it was sexual at first) although he stepped away from it somewhat when he was in grad school and afterwards actively working towards finding a job and establishing tenure (lack of time and resources). Once he got tenure and had more time and money (in his early to mid 40s), my SO began slowly exploring this again and eventually felt free to fully explore it. This coincided with first meeting me. I was fully supportive from the onset (a second relationship for both of us), and although we did experience difficulties due to the priority my SO placed on the CDing (it got to the point where I felt it didn't matter to my SO whether I was in his life or not), everything has since fallen into place (it took several years) and there is good balance.

Anyway, my SO suggested that you do give your SO time to come to terms with this. The word "ultimatum" can be construed as being harshly controlling (i.e. "you do this, or else"), but you can think of it instead as clearly defining your own boundaries. You could tell your SO that you do need to be in a relationship with someone who values you enough to be truthful about what he does (even if he has no explanation for his motives), and that although you very much want to continue a relationship with your SO whether he crossdresses or not, you will step aside until he decides to let you into his world and be truthful.

Do the two of you live together, or do you need to find another place to live?

There is a big danger in doing this though. Over the years I've read some CDers say they would rather leave their relationships than face the CDing with their SOs (I suppose, depending on how sexual it was for them or the degree of shame they carried). But ultimately YOU need to decide what type of relationship YOU want to be in, if you're OK with being excluded from an important part of your bf's life or not. Would you want to continue being with your SO even if he insists on keeping the CDing and CDing activities private?

[Tammy494]

Paula,
That is wonderful advice and a great way to put it. The way you worded it was perfect. This is literally what I'm working out in my head, how I will word things. Thank you so much for that. Thankful for you and everybody else. Wish I knew how to make hearts on here :)

Reine, wow you have went above and beyond by talking to your SO about my situation. I'm very emotional today and it really made me tear up knowing that you talked to him to give me even more advice. I'm so happy to hear that your SO is so open with you and that you two are in a good place now. You two definitely deserve a happy relationship and he is with a wonderful woman.
Your SO has offered great advice also, I will definitely keep that in mind. I don't need him to explain why he does it yet, so in definitely just okay with honestly for now.
I am scared of him letting this relationship end due to his inability to share himself with me but unfortunately I will have to accept whatever happens.
The question of whether or not I will be with him if he still wants to keep it private is complicated. I am okay with it if he at least tells me the truth about it. I don't mind if he's not ready to dress in front of me or tell me when he dresses. But I can't stay with him with the lies.
We don't technically live together but he lives with his parents, and so do I as we are still very young and can't afford a place. However I'm at his house 5 days a week. His parents are away right now so I'm here 24/7 for this week. Thank you so much again, truly means a lot to me. You're another one who has been on this thread since day 1.

[Jazzy Jaz]

I think ReineD and PaulaQ's advise combined is definately the way that I would proceed. I understand that he is in a period of self discovery and immense internal turmoil, and that he is likely extremely embarrassed about this and is holding on to the last strands of secrecy as long as he can before the rope breaks. However, I very much agree with others who have cautioned about sacrificing yourself in order to accomadate and not rock the boat with him. Many of his behaviours seem not only immature, but also quite self centered and possibly controling. Its ok for him to feel uncomfortable sharing feelings and opening up with you especially about this, but its not ok for him to not even try or to let his discomfort be an excuse to shut you out and point blank lie and deny the truth to you. He is clearly not looking out for your feelings or stated needs in this relationship and if you look out for him and give him what he wants without him giving you what you need then that provides for a very unhealthy relationship at your expense. It seems like you are coming to terms with this and are being quite proactive by seeking information and experience from others. I also think you have been wise and have had a calculated approach by taking your time and preparing your moves, though I feel the time has come to pull the trigger and clearly define your boundaries once and for all. I admire the courage that it is taking you to do this and if the end result is that you need to move on then I would encourage you to hold your head high and move forward knowing that you are an amazing, incredible woman ready for the world and capable of experiencing real, healthy love. Sometimes the best way to help someone is to walk away from them and let them go.

Ps. I think his sports betting is sounding like its progressed into a form of gambling addiction, just something to pay attention to and keep in mind.

Good luck with this turning point, which ever way it goes.

[sometimes_miss]

I think that I may need to remind folks that Tammy's boyfriend is still at an age where he's most likely in the dark about a lot of things. Remember also, that like nearly all of us, he was probably brought up in an environment where for a man to be feminine in any way at all is the worst thing he can ever be, and if he's having any feelings that could in ANY way be construed as homosexual, this can all be instrumental in his need (not his desire) to repress all of this as far away from the rest of his 'real life' as possible. I went through this almost 40 years ago, feeling all the shame about who and what I was, or might be, and was absolutely terrified that anyone would find out, and so I strongly suspect that he's going through something similar. If he has read any discussion by other crossdressers about their experiences in coming out to anyone, and of course all the horrible results that have ensued, there is little doubt that he's going to have trouble dealing with this. Remember, lots of us had female partners who initially said that they supported and loved us, and yet over time that all dissolved into no longer wanting to stay with us, or even hate. So Tammy has to deal with all these fears he is most likely harboring all on his own. We are, for the most part when we're young, completely isolated, with absolutely no active support systems anywhere to help us deal with this. Sure, everyone is told that 'help is out there whenever you need it', but in reality, even most crisis help lines have either no experience at all in transgender psychological issues, or very limited help available. Gender counseling is still a VERY specialized field, and is still not even routinely available at most mental health clinics and hospitals. As much as general practicioners would like us to believe that their study of psychology will enable them to figure out how to help us, that was not my experience when I went through the mental health care system.

I don't think that having Tammy just jettison her boyfriend from her life just because he is currently not a completely willing, cooperative person is a good idea. She is most likely the only person who will accept him that he will EVER find. While in the short term, sure, he will survive physically, the loss of her will simply push him into a life where he will have virtually no chance at ever finding love again unless he has definite homosexual desires.

Tammy, I urge you to try to be patient; I know this is very hard. I also know that most women see any signs of dishonesty as a terrible betrayal of their trust, but most women aren't dealing with men going through what he is right now. If he's been a good person so far, and all of this seems to be resulting from his difficulty in dealing with his crossdressing, sexual urges related to it, or perhaps his self identifying as something other than what he believes in all his heart to be the only life that is acceptable (and that is very, very common in our society), you may be the only hope he ever has in life. I know it's hard; but please don't act hastily. Lots of couples go through even years of difficulty and come out ok. Life isn't always easy, sometimes it gets REALLY hard for long stretches, and you'll realize that out as you get older. I'd hate for you to prematurely ditch this relationship and then look back someday and regret it.

[heatherdress]

I don't understand why so many are urging Tammy to be more patient, to be understanding, to try and understand what her poor conflicted boyfriend might be going through. She has more than done that and admits to being hurt, sad and depressed. If this was simply a issue of him hiding a crossdressing issue, I would agree that he deserves continued empathy and support. But Tammy has demonstrated patience, empathy, concern, an offer to open a dialog and forgiveness. And he simply seems to be selfish, indifferent to her needs and maybe even abusive if he is taking advantage of her and knowingly hurting her.

This does not seem like someone who is trying to discover himself or someone who can offer a healthy, loving relationship which she deserves.

No one should stay in an unhealthy relationship, especially when they are so young and caring and loving as Tammy is.



.

[AngelaYVR]

Agreed Heather. Nobody likes to end a relationship but this guy just seems to be trying to wait out the storm. He seems to have had ample opportunity to discuss all aspects with a patient, loving woman and he hasn't. Time to force the issue.

[sometimes_miss]

I don't understand why so many are urging Tammy to be more patient, to be understanding, to try and understand what her poor conflicted boyfriend might be going through.
Because she's not the one at risk here. Any normal single female in her twenties has plenty of options as far as mates. This guy basically has one, and going to lose it because you're just a bunch of older guys who can't remember what it's like to be in his situation. People tend to forget the bad parts of their lives, and then of course with the benefit of hindsight, think to themselves, 'Gee, it would have been so simple, all I had to do was talk about the subject knowledgably and intelligently and we could work out our options'. He's not thinking like that and the chances that he knows even 1/10th of what anyone here does is slim to none. Because you're looking at this through the eyes of someone who's already been through all the years of confusion. If we were talking about a 30 year old who has been on this forum for 5 years I would think differently. But it's easy to forget that there are lots of crossdressers out there who have no idea of how to deal with this, other than to occasionally satisfy the urge to dress, then become so ashamed that they have to repress every thought about it until they can't resist and the behavior repeats. The world is not filled with psychology theory educated crossdressers as you might tend to believe.

Agreed Heather. Nobody likes to end a relationship but this guy just seems to be trying to wait out the storm.
That's probably all he knows how to do. When other normal couples have problems, very often each will need a 'cooling off' period. This is different, because it will not 'cool off'. At least, as far as he knows. The secret's out, and he doesn't know how to deal with it. Most young people think of problems like this as something that the other person will just 'get used to'. This isn't the case this time around. Being a crossdresser is a permanent situation. He will feel that this is not something that he can just quit if things don't work out. I'm sure he's scared of what's going to happen, and so, avoids it as much as he can.
Remember, we're dealing with someone's life here. This is not to be taken lightly, as if he just took up a new sport that she doesn't like. This is end game for him. And just because we all feel bad for Tammy, is no reason to forget how serious this is. His entire life is about to go right down the drain. And a lot of you seem to want to see that happen. Why? Because you want another forever-single crossdresser to join our ranks here?

(Edit: This is not to accuse anyone in particular, but rather to address anyone who might be considering what is mentioned.)
Or are some of you predators who want to 'pounce' on Tammy, knowing that she's one in a million women who will accept a guy who crossdresses? Because i know for sure that it's going through some of your minds; men are predators by nature, and when alone, will usually do just about anything to steal a female mate from even a friend if she's the only one around, and in this case, she is probably the only one you'll find in years. So stop it already.
(Edit complete).

As far as unhealthy relationships, I could bet that most if not all of your ex girlfriends felt the same about you guys here. Fix relationships. Don't destroy them. No, it's not easy. Staying together is the hardest thing that any couple can do. More than half of all marriages, and virtually all non married couples split up. Let's not contribute to those failures.

He seems to have had ample opportunity to discuss all aspects with a patient, loving woman and he hasn't.
Again, you all think that this is an easy topic to just sit down and talk about. Rather, it's the hardest thing that he will try to do in his life so far. Sheesh, doesn't anyone remember the first time they had to talk to someone else in their life about crossdressing? Especially a girlfriend or wife?

Time to force the issue.
Yeah, that always works out well. Ask the divorced crossdressers in the world about that. You're going to be interviewing for a long, long time.

[PaulaQ]

Because she's not the one at risk here. Any normal single female in her twenties has plenty of options as far as mates. This guy basically has one, and going to lose it because you're just a bunch of older guys who can't remember what it's like to be in his situation.

She has plenty of risk here. We don't know what he's doing. He may very well be doing things that put her at significant risk. Also, the pattern of lying that seems to be going on borders on being abusive. Now there may be an obvious, and relatively innocent explanation here - he's a crossdresser, the dating site is really just for sharing photos, he's ashamed, and he is too dumb to see that he's better off talking to her and being honest. I hope that's the answer. But he could be having sex with many other people, and that puts her at risk of disease, and is a highly unethical thing to do. And the thing is, people who engage in one type of abusive behavior sometimes go on to worse forms of abuse over time.

Being afraid of being alone is understandable. Unfortunately, he's actually pushing himself in that direction because he's afraid to be honest.


As far as unhealthy relationships, I could bet that most if not all of your ex girlfriends felt the same about you guys here. Fix relationships. Don't destroy them.

She's doing her part. He's not meeting her half way. I'm not telling her to just dump him - but look - if he won't be honest after she's caught him red-handed, that in itself will, over time, undermine their relationship. One person can't fix the relationship - and so far, she's the only one trying. If he can't or won't try, there's nothing she can do about it, and at a certain point, she faces the dilemma of "stay with a man I don't trust", or "leave."


Or are some of you predators who want to 'pounce' on Tammy, knowing that she's one in a million women who will accept a guy who crossdresses? Because i know for sure that it's going through some of your minds; men are predators by nature, and when alone, will usually do just about anything to steal a female mate from even a friend if she's the only one around, and in this case, she is probably the only one you'll find in years.

I'm giving her similar advice, and since I'm dating two other women right now, as well as a guy, I can tell you that my dance card is rather full, and that I have no interest in Tammy, lol! (And since I doubt she's into women, I don't think she'd be attracted to me, either!) I doubt that's the motivation of most people here. Yeah, some are being kind of harsh, but the lying he seems to be doing has got to stop. She caught him. He needs to be honest about it all. (BTW, if I had to guess at a motive for some, it would be more "throw him under the bus, because he makes us all look bad!" This isn't my motivation either - I already look exactly as bad as it is possible for me to look.)

[heatherdress]

Sometimes miss - I am not going to try and respond to the many offensive remarks you made about us - members of this forum trying to help Tammy, a new member who has asked for help.
Your initial point that Tammy is not someone at risk is absolutely incorrect. Anyone who is in an abusive relationship is certainly in trouble and needs help. It is even more problematic if she is aware of the abuse and still tolerates it. No one can fix a bad relationship by themselves and some relationships are not fixable. That may be hard to understand but it is painfully true.

[Mayo]

sometimes_miss: I've had a previous history of lying compulsively about things until I was finally confronted, so I have some knowledge of where he's coming from. Often we do such things in order to avoid confronting them ourselves, but eventually we need to come to terms with it, no matter how bad it may seem, or it will never stop. If her boyfriend can't break through that wall then he's going to continue lying and hiding, and who knows about what else? (Parenthetically, I think his sports obsession may be a way of displacing his stress over the issues he's trying to avoid dealing with.) PaulaQ's comments are appropriate and proper.

The guy is in his 20s and will not become a mature adult if he doesn't address this. He needs to deal with his issues, and sooner is better than later. Right now, with her, is probably the best chance he has, even though he no doubt fears the confrontation and the questions it will bring up in his own mind (and hers, if he is bisexual or gay) and even the possible end of the relationship. She needs to make it clear that she is willing to try to work through it, but she also needs to set a timetable and encourage (not nag) him to act on it. Let him know that she knows. Let him know that she does not think less of him for it and it's something she is prepared to accept. Insist that he engage in individual counselling (for his CDing and sports obsession) and probably couples counselling (for the hiding, lying and denial) as well. If he wants to join a CD site or put pictures on the internet, fine, but no sex with other people. Boundaries need to be clearly set, though there's always the possibility of negotiation and trying different arrangements for a period of time to see if other alternatives are possible. But this needs to be brought out in the open between them, acknowledged and addressed on a fairly short time scale (6 months or less). If he refuses to cooperate, she should leave. He can stay in the closet and deny it and lose her because of his shame and fear (and she already knows anyway!), or he can come out to her and possibly save the relationship. In no conceivable universe should she feel obligated to stay with him forever because of his inability to address his own problems. Simple as that.

[AngelaYVR]

Again, you all think that this is an easy topic to just sit down and talk about. Rather, it's the hardest thing that he will try to do in his life so far. Sheesh, doesn't anyone remember the first time they had to talk to someone else in their life about crossdressing? Especially a girlfriend or wife?

Sometimes_miss, that chip on your shoulder is interfering with the good advice that the OP has so far been receiving. Do you really, really want to go on record that you blindly make idiotic assumptions about the people on this forum? Because that is what you have done. Again.

[Judith96a]

Wow! I think some folks (I'm naming no names) on both sides of the 'argument' need to take a deep breath and remember why we're here!

I'm not going to speculate as to whether others have, or have not, forgotten what it was like to be confused, ashamed, whatever and utterly convinced, perhaps irrationally so, that to breathe a word of their crossdressing would spell instant death to any relationship. Perhaps that wasn't your experience. Perhaps you've always been as confident of your identity as you are now (given the number of posts that I see from people saying how much this forum has helped them, I doubt that). Or perhaps part of your 'sorting yourself out' has involved putting those dark days behind you. Is it possible that you may have done so rather too effectively? I remember all too vividly just what it was like.

Regarding abusive relationships - regardless of who may appear to be the 'abuser' or the 'abused', the person with the real power is the one who is the one who is able to walk away!

As for staying, some things are worth fighting for; some people are worth the pain and the heartache. Only Tammy can decide whether her BF is worth it to her.

As to whether she should 'confront' or 'enable', I can't see us reaching a consensus on that. I dare say that she's heard the arguments on both sides and will make up her own mind.

Tammy, good luck! I suspect that, regardless of how you decide to proceed, it's going to be hard - at least initially. Be assured that, even though we may not be able to agree amongst ourselves how to advise you, we wish you well.

[AngelaYVR]

I'm not going to speculate as to whether others have, or have not, forgotten what it was like to be confused, ashamed, whatever....

I doubt anyone here has, Judith; those sorts of things tend to stay etched into one's memory. The CD part of the boyfriend's behaviour is pretty touchy but unfortunately it's the dating app business that elevates it beyond those confines. Misguided titillation or deliberate act to mess around? Nobody knows because the only person who does ain't sharing. I'm quite shocked at the free passes that are being handed out simply because this guy is one of the tribe. If there is any possibility that this guy has slept around (with the concomitant risk of STDs) then the OP needs to know now.

[Dana44]

MY ex wife was a cheater in our open relationship. During the divorce she told everybody that I was a cross dresser. Including my sister. If Tammy thinks that he has cheated on her, I'm sure she would know how to handle that. It for sure is a relationship killer. I think a lot of opinions on this thread has our interest to help her from our hearts and were providing revealing thoughts to help her come to a sane solution. This thread is now a chaotic mess.

[ReineD]

Tammy, I'm really sorry there is so much arguing here. I hope you're not getting too confused.

The bottom line is that YOU need to consider what YOU need in your relationship and what YOU can live with or not live with. If hanging on to your bf is more important to you than anything else, then you'll find a way to cope with what is going on right now and life will carry on as before. If you decide that the stress of being in a relationship with a bf who lies and keeps you out is more than you can bear, then you'll talk to your bf and let him know that you require honesty, and be prepared to live with the consequences, after having given time for your bf to absorb what you are telling him, of course. But, you cannot control the outcome and how your bf will react to having you stand up for yourself. He may change, or he may not be ready to change and may choose to opt out of the relationship ... it depends on how much he values you.

This is not about the crossdressing, it is about basic relationship honesty, intimacy, and commitment.

So it really boils down to asking yourself what are YOUR priorities. What do YOU need. And then your bf can decide what his priorities are and what he needs. If the two of you can get on the same page, then all is good. If you cannot, then you will a find a partner who is more compatible. At 21, you have many years ahead of you and thank your stars that this is not happening after 10 years of marriage with a couple of kids in tow.

---------------------------------------------

Two books (these are google-previews) I recommend reading. They helped me when I needed to decide what I needed from my relationship, which like yours, was unhappy for awhile.

Women Who Love Too Much (https://books.google.com/books?id=CzAXvOjl-CoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=women+who+love+too+much&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAGoVChMI8rWvvMv3yAIVSCoeCh1uGwgr#v=on epage&q=women%20who%20love%20too%20much&f=false)

He's Just Not That Into You (https://books.google.com/books?id=92i6NTStSr8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=he%27s+just+not+that+into+you&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAGoVChMIsc-Jhcv3yAIVhFYeCh2v1Qzk#v=onepage&q=he%27s%20just%20not%20that%20into%20you&f=false)

[Mayo]

This is [...] about basic relationship honesty, intimacy, and commitment.

So it really boils down to asking yourself what are YOUR priorities. What do YOU need. And then your bf can decide what his priorities are and what he needs. If the two of you can get on the same page, then all is good. If you cannot, then you will a find a partner who is more compatible.
^ The essence of relationships.

[anton jon]

Tammy please take your time hon because if my wife gave me an ultimatum I would walk out the door that second and that works both ways, we are both so crazy in love but stupidly stuborn in so many ways. On our first date we sat and lay down some rules as we had both been hurt in the past. No one was we are equil in every part of our relationship and make all decisions together and no to stricktly no ultimatums ever and we just don't do it. With that said I think you need to do it but try not use the word or even try not make it look or feel too harsh. Love and respect is important.

I am not going to post again because I feel the love from my new extended family here but I am getting so confused with so much great advice that conflicts. I am finding that I am also fealing your pain too much and my wife and I are talking at least an hour per day about what you coyld do or what we would do.

Please keep one thing in mind, so many have been in your place and walked away from what might have been the one person that holds the key to your future happyness but also respect is not there without honesty.

Please keep us all in your life no matter what you feel is best for you both and we are all here with open arms and open hearts just waiting to support you BOTH no matter what the result.

Much much love to you both

Anton jon and SO

Sorry but I forgot, the sport addiction getting a lots worse said one thing to my wife and I. He is clearly trying to convince himself that he is not a woman or gay In any way. I done this my whole life. I hate voilence with every bit of who I am but joined a boxing club, 3 karate clubs , a kick boxing club and all at the same time. I hated them and didn't understand why I never left. The real me left my ballet classes , my ballroom dancing classes, I also stopped being an alter boy and singing in the choir, I stopped cutting my friends any familys hair and stopped helping my gg friends with their makeup and stopped acting classes. I stopped all the things that gave me nothing but pleasure one week and joined them clubs I hated the next week and didn't think about it but only the other day it hit me why I did and it is my diggest regret as far as I know. I am so angry now that I tricked myself into doing this but now I embrace me I am going to sign up for as many of them classes I love so much asap or as much as we can afford as my wife would like to do some of them with me. I was trying to be a man but didn't know or even let myself thing a man could be sweet, kind, caring, loving, gentle, emotional or have a fem side. I didn't stay in them clubs I hated for much more than two years before the real me pushed it way back to the from but I didn't rejoin any of my loved clubs or classes. But my fem side won that war without me ever and I mean ever thing one single thing about it. It just happened.

[Katey888]

Please everyone... :)

Try to remember that the aim is to offer advice and opinion without getting too personal or offensive...

Nobody is going to make their opinion any more acceptable or right just by shouting louder about it - you all have a right to express it and, if necessary, clarify it - just remember that we have a newish poster here (Tammy) who is obviously in a less than ideal situation but seems both capable and intelligent enough to know what is useful and appropriate advice and what isn't. :thinking:

So please try to address your responses to her situation and updates before squabbling amongst yourselves... or else...
:rulez:

Thank You!

Katey
Moderator

[jenni_xx]

Do not shw him this thread. Nothing good will come of that


Why on earth not! Tammy wants her bf to be transparent (she wants him to own up to dressing and posting profiles on dating sites) and it is only fair that she should provide transparency in return.

Because EVERY single person on this thread has only received one side of the story and are responding to Tammy based solely on what she has said. Her Boyfriend has no voice in this thread, has had no chance to put his side of things across, and should he read anything from any member here that he doesn't like, it isn't that member he is going to express his annoyance/frustration towards, it is going to be Tammy. She will only end up bearing the brunt of what others have said.

This very thing happened to me with an ex-girlfriend. After our relationship ended, I stumbled across a thread on another (non-trangender) site that she had contributed to. What she wrote only painted her side of the situation, and, in the absence of my side of things, the replies that she received took her side to be the truth and ran with it. I was painted in such a way by her, that I was slated by other contributors to the thread. I genuinely think that she did believe what she was saying on that thread was the truth, was a truthful reflection of our relationship, but the fact is that it wasn't. She had made assumptions herself that were completely not the case, and her posts insinuated that it was my cd'ing that had ended the relationship, when that was not the case at all. Nonetheless, she received replies from others, including another CD, that I deserved to be "dumped", that it was all my problem, that what was perceived to be my "fetish" was reflective of everything that is bad about crossdressers. I was painted as being unsympathetic to her needs, as someone who is selfish, and my ex-girlfriend was made out to be a person who is so much better than me. All based on hearing only one side of the story.

I felt like responding to that thread myself in order to put across my side of things, but refrained, only because I stumbled across it several years after it had been written, so I simply left it be.

My point is that I completely understand Tammy's concerns, and I have offered my opinion on what she has said, but what is being said is only being said based on one side of the story. What myself and others have submitted to this thread may not be well received by Tammy's boyfriend, which will only result in conflict between them, and may even result in him becoming more withdrawn towards her. My opinion is that it would be better if Tammy took on board everything that everyone is saying, and use any advice which best resonates with her situation in the hope that it can be beneficial to her actual goal - getting her boyfriend to open up and talk to her and address HER concerns directly with HIM.

Reaching out and seeking help is a very good thing, and you're right, there is nothing wrong with Tammy's attempt to try to understand. I applaud Tammy for that, and so coming here and creating this thread is a good thing for her to do. What needs to come from this thread is help that Tammy can use that is relevant to her situation. Her boyfriend can then react to HER in light of that, as opposed to react to US (which he is bound to do). Her boyfriend doesn't need to see what any of us here have written, because I have no doubt that should he come across anything that he perceives to be even the slightest bit negative towards himself, he'll focus on that and lose site of the actual reason why Tammy came here to ask for help in the first place.

[Jenniferathome]

...Again, you all think that this is an easy topic to just sit down and talk about. Rather, it's the hardest thing that he will try to do in his life so far. Sheesh, doesn't anyone remember the first time they had to talk to someone else in their life about crossdressing? Especially a girlfriend or wife? ...

Yes, I remember that day perfectly. Other than the birth of my children and meeting my wife, it was the best day I have had. It would have been EASIER had my wife asked me about it, rather than me overcoming my own fear and shame, but it was a remarkably easy conversation once I started. Once done, I have felt more free then I can recall in my lifetime. Hiding, was far and away harder, than talking.

And by the way, you make a rather absurd reference to the "divorced cross dressers." Your objectivity left the room a long time ago but it is undeniable based on commentary by the women on this site, that cross dressing is NOT what breaks up marriages. The un-objective cross dresser, yourself included, can blame cross dressing on a relationship failure but the honest cross dressers here have reported, consistently, that there were other issues causing the breakup.

Tammy, I wish you the best. Confront your boyfriend and get it out. Lying, as he his doing, will destroy your relationship anyway so you have nothing to lose.

[ReineD]

Katie, thanks for the note. :) My message was not meant to be disparaging, I really did want to ascertain what Anton Jon meant, so I’ll try it again, hopefully in a way that will be read as objective by everyone. It’s important for Tammy’s sake that people have an understanding of the difference between "I need you to be honest", and "Stop dressing or else".


Tammy please take your time hon because if my wife gave me an ultimatum I would walk out the door

If you had been lying and hiding from your wife like Tammy’s situation and your wife told you that she needed you to be honest for the sake of your marriage, would you really walk out the door? Or, I may be misunderstanding your comment ... are you talking about the "Stop dressing or else" type of ultimatum, which is not what Tammy is saying.

I do agree with the other thing you said. It is true that couples who disagree, tend to only be able to see their own side. This is why people break up and divorce and this is why people need to learn effective communication techniques. Hopefully, Tammy's boyfriend will learn to communicate with Tammy. But even then, emotions run so high when individuals in relationships feel their needs aren't being met by their partners, that despite attempts at communication, sometimes it does take stepping away from the relationship in order to have time to see things more objectively.

... although a desire to keep the CDing private in order to facilitate going on dating sites unfettered, in my opinion has nothing to do with Tammy's boyfriend not getting what he needs from Tammy in his relationship. On the other hand, Tammy DOES need honestly from her bf, in fact honesty always benefits BOTH partners in relationships. It benefits the partner who is being lied to in that she stops feeling she "must be crazy" and begins to feel valued again, and it benefits the partner who is lying in that he can start being honest with himself plus he can begin to feel loved despite the fact that he enjoys wearing women's clothes.

[Rhonda Jean]

Since I responded earlier, I think I need to say that I disagree with both sometimes-miss and jenniferathome.

Sometimes-miss... Wow. Our advice is negative toward the husband so we can "pounce on Tammy"? That comment surprises me. He's pretty hard to defend. Being a crossdresser doesn't excuse any of his behavior. (BTW, I'm not speaking from my high horse here. I've done plenty that'd be hard to defend). And, jenniferathome... I think we all tend to think everybody's situation mirrors our own. You can bet that crossdressing DOES cause divorce and, yes, I know my opinion is pretty polluted. Even if it was every GG on this board who said it wasn't, you're leaving out a whole lot of women who are so disgusted by it that they wouldn't ever participate in this forum. I used to be one of the lucky ones, too.

As usual, when it comes to relationships, Reine is the voice of truth and wisdom. Tammy would do well to pay attention to her.

[Tammy494]

Hello everybody again! I'm sorry I haven't replied, but please know that I've been reading everything every single day. I've just been working a lot the past few days, I work 12 hour days sometimes and I can't muster up the energy to reply after that. But I'll be back tonight after work, I have a lot to say and again I appreciate all of you so so much. It truly warms my heart to see how much so many of you care for me and my situation. I'll be back later!!

[GeorgeA]

Rhonda Jean beat me to it as I was preparing a similar message:

As usual, when it comes to relationships, Reine is the voice of truth and wisdom. Tammy would do well to pay attention to her.

I have been an admirer of Reine's posts for a number of years. She most definitely is the voice of truth and wisdom.

[Tina_gm]

To some of the comments, any gg who comes here looking to figure this out and how to cope, deal etc etc, no. CDing itself won't be the only cause for a breakup. Unless the cding becomes all that the life of the gg is. That they completely lost their husband to cdinf, which although not an absolute, generally because they are ts, and live their life as and identify as a woman only.

But yes, there are women who will say flat out no to any of it. Either because they truly cannot deal with it, or they choose not to.

I am going to take somewhat of the middle ground when it comes to be patient or make the demand for total truth right away. As I had said prior, he himself simply may not be ready to accept his own truth. That was certainly me for nearly 3 decades. Yes, he may be lying to you. But lying to himself as well. It happens, and for a great big majority on here, it happened with them and I as well.

The dating site... yeah, imo, that one is o.b. what he was doing I am thinking was not truly looking for hook ups, not real ones in person, but playing out fantasy online. It is o.b. for a committed relationship, pure and simple.

I really do not think that there are any cders here who are crow barring this relationship due to Tammies acceptance of cding. I haven't seen her saying she prefers it. Hopes her partner comes out so they can be girls together. I believe she came on here looking for help so that she can have a relationship with honesty and trust.

[Alaina R]

Again, you all think that this is an easy topic to just sit down and talk about. Rather, it's the hardest thing that he will try to do in his life so far. Sheesh, doesn't anyone remember the first time they had to talk to someone else in their life about crossdressing? Especially a girlfriend or wife?


I remember; I was 21 and I was terrified. It was over 4 decades ago (that's the part I can't believe) and I was shaking and crying when I told her, certain that it was the worst thing in the world and that it would destroy everything. Surprisingly, she was not phased at all and we had many wonderful times together afterwards although, as we were quite young, the relationship eventually ended for other reasons. Nonetheless, I did tell her, hard as it was, because we had reached a point where I had to in order for us to keep going forward. From what I can tell, it sounds like he needs to find the courage to open up to keep his relationship going in a good direction.

Having said this, I do have one counterpoint to my own argument. Something I noticed, not at that time but later, when I was older in my more adult relationships. Sometimes it can get setup where the crossdresser becomes the 'identified patient' with the partner acting the part of the sacrificing but tolerant and giving partner. That's a bad situation too and can create unstated resentments from both partners. Eventually I got to the point where I decided that unless the woman was comfortable with it, I preferred to stay single. Luckily, I found the right woman eventually.

My point is that although the boyfriend sounds as if he is just not dealing we should acknowledge that the dynamics can be more complex and less transparent than it first appears.

[Tammy494]

So as I'm planning on approaching a talk at least with him, I just want to say a few more things. This a person, who even though I have been with for 4 years, doesn't know how to have a serious/deep conversation. Aside from everything else, and before any of this even happened, I've tried to sit down with him and he's only gotten more stubborn throughout the years. No matter how nice I am, he seems to always feel attacked. Again, no matter how nice and gentle I am, this is the result. He typically gets angry or annoyed within a minute or two into a serious conversation and tells me to go home. I just want to make it where he listens to everything I have to say without shutting down and/or getting angry and telling me to go home.
Should I tell him ahead of time that I need to talk to him and that Its important that he listen to everything that I have to say, and that I'm not breaking up with him?


I just feel like I deserve somebody who appreciates how loving I am, because I try so hard and I feel so small most of the time. At a certain point, I actually stopped trying. I don't go out of my way to make him happy anymore because I don't get the same in return. our 4 year anniversary is in a few days and I haven't brought it up because I know he won't wanna go anywhere and I'll end up picking out my own gift for myself FROM him and my gift FOR him like I do for every special occasion. Sorry for my sourness about this, I just know if I don't bring it up, he won't even remember either. it would just be nice to be surprised for once.

Also I know the sports betting is a problem, and for the record I just wanna clarify that he's not spending crazy money or anything. It's just Tons of little bets, so he never really loses any money. But it's an obsession regardless. Also, he's always been really into all sports since he was like 4 or 5.

I don't know where I'm going with any of this to be honest... You've all given such great advice, and taught me a lot. And I agree that Reine has really helped me and I plan to use the advice she has given along with lots of other advice from all of you. :)
I just want this smoke to clear so I can have an intimate, healthy relationship with John, with his true self.
I do plan to stay on this forum, and I'm really happy because I can finally send and receive messages and I can view people's profiles and posts. :) I want to read all of your beautiful stories and journeys. So much love for all of you!

[natalie_cheryl]

You will never be happy in a relationship where you are the only one communicating. If you've already given up trying to be happy together it's time to walk away. You've been together 4 years an he's not willing to change he won't ever. Imo it's time to leave

[LisaKarenAZ]

Tammy,
Based on your last post, it is really starting to look like John has some serious issues with commitment and communication. Although everyone is capable of change, some people are just not willing to do so for the sake of their own happiness. Your description of his behaviors really indicates someone who isn't going to change with a subtle approach. Speaking from my own experiences, it may take a proverbial 2x4 against the skull for him to wake up to what he has in front of him, and what he is risking by continuing to behave in the ways that he does.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid to say that you are enabling this continued inability to change by not coming straight out and telling him that you cannot stay in a relationship founded in mistrust, dishonesty, and intellectual negligence.

As for your anniversary, ask yourself this question, and respond completely honestly. What is the value of a relationship if you have to worry about an open and frank conversation risking your ability to happily celebrate a milestone in your life journey? You, my dear, are devaluing your worth by continuing to allow yourself to be manipulated by this guy. You have expressed yourself as being a caring, loving, and respectful woman, and as such, you are worth more to yourself than you have allowed yourself to be. Be confident, realistic, and honest with yourself and John, and stand up for your right to be happy. Nobody in this world needs or deserves to be in an abusive or neglectful relationship. At that is where you are, based on your posts. Emotional abuse and neglect come in many different forms, and doesn't always have to be outright malicious. Just the simple fact that he refuses to have a heart to heart with you, to share his feelings, and to give you what you need emotionally gives credence to the abuse/neglect factor.

In the end, you have to decide what is right for yourself, and what actions that decision results in. Don't belabor allowing yourself to be happy, regardless if that is with or without John being your partner.

[IamWren]

This a person, who even though I have been with for 4 years, doesn't know how to have a serious/deep conversation.
My daughter, who is coincidentally your age, was with a boy for a little more than three years when she decided to break up with him about a year ago. I was really, really surprised. We had a pretty long talk about it but she said that although he had a lot of good points; he didn't really drink or party, he didn't abuse her, they got along pretty well, liked the same food, he was a video game nerd (kinda like her) but not over the top about it... the problem was

he lacked depth. He didn't seem to be able to communicate on a serious level about important issues. She said it was really, really hard but she knew she wanted to be with someone who was more connected to her on a spiritual level not just the every day things. I was so very proud of her for making that tough decision AND putting that decision into action. (hint hint ;))



I just feel like I deserve somebody who appreciates how loving I am...
You do.
We all do.


I do plan to stay on this forum, and I'm really happy because I can finally send and receive messages and I can view people's profiles and posts. :) I want to read all of your beautiful stories and journeys. So much love for all of you!
:) I hope you will. I've been following the thread and not only have I learned a little about a young lady who seems like she would be accepting of a CDing partner (at least willing to try) but I've learned a lot about my 'sisters' and myself as I've thought about this thread throughout the day.
I'm looking forward to hearing your story and about your journey as well dear.

As for talking with your fella... I'm sure you're going to do fine. Be calm, gentle but stand your ground. Don't ask any closed ended questions or give him an out in the way you ask them (e.g. No 'yes or no' questions and no 'did you do it for/because _______' questions) structure your questions so he explains himself or at least gives him the chance to think and be introspective.

I'll leave you with that.

Mucho big hugs and love,
Sayyidah 'Sue' muah!

[Nadine Spirit]

He typically gets angry or annoyed within a minute or two into a serious conversation and tells me to go home.

I just feel like I deserve somebody who appreciates how loving I am, because I try so hard and I feel so small most of the time.

I don't know where I'm going with any of this to be honest...

I just want this smoke to clear so I can have an intimate, healthy relationship with John, with his true self.


For the most part I have stayed out of this conversation. While I have been reading it, this thread is quite full of opinions already. But....... here is my two cents:

John's issues that make it difficult to have an open & honest relationship with him do not stem from his gender variances. At least in my never to be humble opinion.

Far too often people are with someone for various reasons, they see concerns with continuing on with them, but think that they are the "right" person and so they attempt to stick it out. While I know that we are only hearing your side of this story, the story of your relationship suggests to me that John really does not sound like a good match for you.

[Katey888]

I don't know where I'm going with any of this to be honest...

Tammy - I think you really do if you read again what you've written here and tried to be as objective as you can about what you've revealed... I'd kept out of commenting before because, on the whole, you've been receiving pretty well balanced advice, albeit from different perspectives.

You've demonstrated enough on here that you ARE deserving of someone who is capable of deep, sensitive and reciprocal feelings - everything you've indicated about your SO (even if you have painted a worst case picture) says to me that you have someone with bigger and developing issues that are not only going to remain, but could become absolutely disastrous for you both. If he had the capability to respond positively to your exertions to get him to open up, I think he would have by now (from what you describe) - I just can't see that he has the capacity to change, other than to get worse - more obsessive; bigger bets; less open... :(

You say you want " an intimate, healthy relationship with John, with his true self" - but I feel that you've done a really comprehensive job of describing the 'true John' here; you just can't see the wood for the trees yourself... :hugs: You really want to make it work - but people can't be 'projects' for other folk - not when there seem to be so many incompatibilities and so much resistance to your approaches...

For what it's worth, perhaps you should express that you're breaking up with him and see what that means to him...? Personally, I still don't think he'd respond, and that should confirm what would be the right course of action for yourself. You feel that you should deserve someone who appreciates you more, and there's only one way that you're going to find that - tough as it is, most of us go through it at least once in life, but it's often the right thing to do for both of you... :hugs:

Good luck! I hope you can get where YOU need to be... :)

Katey x

[Dana44]

Tammy, I have a friend who feels stuck in a marriage and she tells me that it is not getting and better and that if she was not married to him she would leave but she took the vows to heart and sticks by him even in misery. I can say this after reading all of your posts. The man you have looks like he will not change. That cannot bode well for the future. I would take Paula's information and have a one time talk with him. If he does not want to listen. This is what you will have through your entire life with him. You truly deserve a man that loves you for you and communication is the prime example that keeps people together.

[Jenniferathome]

...Should I tell him ahead of time that I need to talk to him and that Its important that he listen to everything that I have to say, and that I'm not breaking up with him? ...

Tammy, people in healthy relationships don't have to do this. Cross dressing is something he does, it is not the definition of you two as a couple but communication WILL define you. Again, I ask, if he were a stock, would you buy it? Why is this stock going to rise in the future? 4 years in and his stock has not risen. If you can't talk, seriously and openly, what will you do when things are really complicated: marriage, kids, finances,....?

best of luck

[NicoleScott]

Tammy, don't tell him you're not breaking up with him. That just tells him all is OK, no changes are required of him because there are no consequences if he doesn't make changes. Don't give away your options.

[debstar]

Or just put your self first and dump him. MOVE ON.

[ReineD]

He typically gets angry or annoyed within a minute or two into a serious conversation and tells me to go home.
I just feel like I deserve somebody who appreciates how loving I am, because I try so hard and I feel so small most of the time. At a certain point, I actually stopped trying. I don't go out of my way to make him happy anymore because I don't get the same in return. our 4 year anniversary is in a few days and I haven't brought it up because I know he won't wanna go anywhere and I'll end up picking out my own gift for myself FROM him and my gift FOR him like I do for every special occasion. Sorry for my sourness about this, I just know if I don't bring it up, he won't even remember either. it would just be nice to be surprised for once.

Why do you stay with him? If he was not a CDer and if you couldn't use the crossdressing as a way to justify the way he behaves, would you put up with this?

Unfortunately your bf has a lot of issues to overcome, not just being open with you about the CDing. How long will it take, assuming that he will be able to overcome all his issues ... one year? Two? Five? Ten? Twenty? Are you willing to put yourself aside for that long?




I just want to make it where he listens to everything I have to say without shutting down and/or getting angry and telling me to go home.

Well first, you can't "make" him do anything. Some people have so many walls there is nothing that others can do to get through them and the walls will only come down when and if the person is ready, if they even WANT to tear down their walls. But there is one thing you could do, if your bf shuts down when you talk to him. Write him a letter. Take your time with the letter. Use it as a journal initially, as a way to put all your feelings on paper without telling yourself you will give it to him. And then let it sit for a few days and revise it. Do this two or three times in the course of the next few weeks. Then you can give it to him. Amazing things happen when we begin journaling our thoughts. The truth comes out.

And then, Tammy, give it a time limit to see if your bf begins to be more open to you. Don't tell your boyfriend he "has" to change "or else" (this won't work), just give YOURSELF an amount of time to live like this. You can be generous with the time if you want. You could give it 6 months. But if at the end of the time period there are no changes, then you will need to make some hard decisions. Write the letter but do not delude yourself into thinking that it will be the magical solution to the problem. You CANNOT control the outcome, you can only do what you can do, observe the results, and make appropriate decisions accordingly.

And read the books I linked to earlier.

[Jazzy Jaz]

I agree with what most everyone has said and I like Reine's point about giving yourself a deadline, however as the picture becomes more clear I personally would suggest giving yourself a much shorter deadline. I wouldn't expect anyone to completely change immediately in a short amount of time BUT you should be seeing at least some progress very soon otherwise I feel that you are attempting to bail out a sinking ship and should probably jump out IMO. A person can only change if they want to and if they proactively take some initiative in the process. And in my experience a person usually has to change for thierself as opposed to changing for someone else so unless he desires the change I don't see it being successful in the long run. I would also be watchful for him trying to appear to do the bare minimum just to prolong the relationship and string you along as this is a common practice in unhealthy relationships whether the person realizes they're doing it or not. Open communication is essential to a healthy relationship and even when me and my accepting SO have had serious uncomfortable discussions I would never dream of telling her to go home because I don't like or agree with what shes saying. I have way more respect for her than that and I think that you also deserve to be respected and should not settle for less.

[Shelly Preston]

Hi Tammy

I think you need to sit your boyfriend down where he has time to listen.

I would explain to him not telling you the truth could be the worst decision of his life.

Like the song says " Don't it always seem to go, That you don't know what you've got till its gone "

He needs to tell you what's going on even if he does not have the answers. This wont be an easy step for either of you but it does seem like you need a proper talk before anything can be resolved.

[jenni_xx]

Tammy, you say that it is very difficult for your boyfriend to engage in a serious discussion, that whenever you try, it isn't long before he "shuts up shop" and walks away.

Have you tried writing him a letter? Putting all your thoughts and feelings down on a piece of paper, handing it to him, while saying nothing but "WE will be talking about this later, after you've read this letter". That way, you can get your point across, without interruption, without fear that he'll walk away. Then I would suggest that you "shut up shop" with him, you are the one who walks away, saying that the next time you both do meet, your concerns, worries, and questions, will be discussed.

And of course, writing all your own thoughts and worries down can be a cathartic experience in its own right.

[sometimes_miss]

First, what Jenny_xx wrote. Good idea. Now, some more of my fat headed comments.

The man you have looks like he will not change.
He's in his twenties. Women are generally ready to settle down into their final monogamous relationship when in their twenties. Men generally aren't. Some will, but that's not usually their primary goal; very, very often, those men's goal is usually sex, and the belief that a particular girl will remain as desirable as she is then, for the rest of his life. We don't find out otherwise until much later that libido's cool down for the same person. I didn't make that up, it's called the seven year itch, and it's very real.
Much of his behavior (not counting the crossdressing) is pretty typical of MANY single men in their 20's: Doesn't want to talk about anything that a woman considers 'deep'? Not unusual at all. Avoids discussing problem issues as if they'll go away? Common. Can't remember birthdays, anniversaries? Pretty common to husbands of all ages. Face it, men usually don't take relationships as seriously as women do, unless they're about to lose it, and by then the woman has been unhappy for so long that it's over before we even know what's happening. Men usually don't notice subtle nuances when our mates are unhappy; ask any guy if his wife says 'fine' when he asks if he can go play golf if it's then ok to go (at least the first few times he does it). It usually takes tears before a guy notices something's wrong.
Why? We're not relationship driven. We're sex driven. We initially seek relationships with women for sex. Sorry if it seems I'm giving away the big male secret here. But for the first phase of the relationship, when we hurry home from work after a week's road trip, it's not to cuddle on the sofa and talk about 'our day'.
For all of you ready to jump up and protest that statement, please remember that nowhere does it say that ALL men behave or feel that way; it amazes me that so many felt like I was pinpointing THEM when I mentioned that there are guys out there that would jump at the chance to steal a crossdressing accepting GF from another guy. But conniving guys most certainly do exist, and they are very devious. I've had two girlfriends stolen from me and gotten the 'all's fair in love and war' speech.

He's not behaving like a male who's really into settling down into a long term relationship. That probably won't happen for years yet. As before, what you're seeing is the reflections of so many men here who have the benefit of hindsight, as well as perhaps some increased introspection due to our being crossdressers (and no, not all crossdressers have that, based simply on the fact that they're not HERE and perhaps not anywhere else discussing it).
People change throughout their lives. That's part of growth and accumulation of knowledge. What we don't know, is how they will change.

[Judith96a]

I don't usually approve of issuing ultimatums and, because I remember all to vividly what it was like to be mid twenties, confused etc, I'm inclined to favour 'enabling him to open up' rather than confronting. However, if it really is the case that you can't have any (CD-related or otherwise) serious conversation with him then I think that there may be merit in picking your moment and saying something like "There are things that we need to discuss, and discuss seriously, if we're to stay together. I'm up for it if you are. But if you're not then tell me now." And be prepared to act promptly on the response whatever it may be.

[NicoleScott]

Judith, I agree. Sometimes an ultimatum doesn't sound like one, such as when the focus shifts from what you must do to what I must do. "This [current situation] isn't working for me, so I will need to make some changes." It's not demanding or confrontational. Let's just hope it's not too subtle.

[Tammy494]

Thank you everybody for your responses again, I never imagined my post getting so many responses. It truly amazes me every day when I come back here to see new replies. There's been SO many different opinions and view points but at this point in the thread, I really do feel like I've gathered what I need to move forward here. I will not necessarily be giving an "ultimatum" because I now understand that it's not exactly the right approach even though I thought it was. I actually did write a letter when I found the box of clothes a few months ago, I said that I would be here for him no matter what, and that I accept him for who he is. It was more lengthy and detailed than that, but that's the main point I was making. I wrote how much I loved him and how I just want honesty no matter what the truth is and I'll accept it. However I feel that the reason he didn't open up then was because that was only two weeks after I initially discovered the pictures. And I left the note with the box of clothes on the bed and went home and waited for him to text me when he got home. When he got home and found it he texted me just assuming we were done and started attacking me and making me feel bad saying "4 years down the drain". But then after, THE SAME NIGHT through text is when he told me about his inner turmoil that I never had a clue about. Told me how he's been depressed for years and has anxiety and a whole bunch of other things. He opened up to me about all of it for a good hour or two. To which I was trying to be comforting and listen. But in the end of that conversation he shut back down, saying "I'm glad I told you because you're the only one who's been around me this long but it just doesn't change anything. It doesn't make it better." And he stopped texting. The next day when I saw him in person I didn't wanna touch a fresh wound so I didn't bring up any of the things he said. I knew he wouldn't wanna re-enter that conversation. So I just tried to have a calm, relaxed night with him. Maybe that's where I went wrong, idk.
Anyway, I'm thinking of writing a letter again because I really want him to hear/read everything I have to say. I'm better with my words in writing anyway. It will be a gently written letter, but maybe that will be a better approach. And as one of you mentioned, maybe after I give him the letter I will say that when is ready to talk about what I have written to come to me.. Idk.
Sometimes miss, what you said makes a lot of sense. Especially because he has a lot of growing up to do.
I'm trying to plan around this maybe.
Anyway, I'm greatfull for all of you. You really have no idea. I wish I could send you all gifts to show my love and appreciation.

- - - Updated - - -

Also to Reine, I will be looking into the books that you've mentioned. I truly value your advice. I value many others here as well, and they all seem to speak very highly of you. Thank you for being a part of this thread and for being such an honest, helpful and caring person.
everybody here has been so deeply involved in this thread and I've learned so much. It only makes me want to learn more. You are all full of wisdom and I hope all of you are able to live your lives to the fullest.

[ReineD]

I actually did write a letter when I found the box of clothes a few months ago, I said that I would be here for him no matter what, and that I accept him for who he is. It was more lengthy and detailed than that, but that's the main point I was making. I wrote how much I loved him and how I just want honesty no matter what the truth is and I'll accept it.

....

When he got home and found it he texted me just assuming we were done and started attacking me and making me feel bad saying "4 years down the drain".

Wow. I'm beginning to wonder if your boyfriend even wants to be in a relationship, if he took "I love you and will be there for you no matter what" as a breakup letter? People do have a tendency to read what they want to read.

Tammy, a word of advice when you write again. Last time when you asked for honesty he deflected your request with opening up about his depression and anxiety while acknowledging that telling you about this wouldn't change anything. So he never did address the contents of your letter and what you need from him? I mean, it's natural that in conversations couples can only focus on one person at a time, but usually they take turns. Focus on his stuff, and then focus on yours. But your points were entirely forgotten?

So now that you do know about his emotional state, you might think about mentioning that there are a few things you need out of your relationship despite his anxiety and depression. For example, you need honesty. Full honesty about all things and this means telling you what he does on the dating site and on kik (is he just wanting to meet people who will be OK with the CDing or does he want to flirt as a girl), and no more hiding clothes. You also need for him to no longer shut down when you want to talk to clear things up, even if he does feel depressed or anxious. And last, you might consider telling him that you need to know you are a priority, you need to feel appreciated by him and this means that he needs to be aware that you have needs in this relationship too. Ask your boyfriend if he can provide these things, and consider mentioning this isn't a break-up letter, you just want to see where your relationship is going.

If your boyfriend says that he cannot provide these things because he is too anxious or depressed (yet he goes on dating sites?), or if he ignores your requests and he deflects the conversation back to himself again, then I don't know what to say other than wishing you all the best with however it will all turn out. :hugs:

Do you have other friends, other people you can do things with to give you a break from the drama with your bf?

[Jill Devine]

After reading all of this I have a simple observation. I think the boyfriend is not "long term relationship material" who just happens to also be a crossdresser. I think the CD topic is clouding the discussion. Most the advice is focused on his CDing and not on him as a him as whole person. If he was a regular guy with the same bad behaviour we would all say dump him. I'm always supportive of trying to save a relationship but putting the CDing aside, he sounds very difficult.

Tammy you sound like a wonderful caring and trusting person. Don't spend your best years with the wrong person. I wish you well.

[heatherdress]

Tammy - After 4 years of an unhealthy relationship, you do not need to understand anything more about your boyfriend's many issues. You should yourself why you tolerated an unhealthy relationship for so long. You seem to be describing a boyfriend who does not communicate or share his emotions, who lies, who gambles, who puts his sports interests before your needs - who seems to bully you because he knows he can. You have discovered he crossdresses, hides on a dating site, checks out your phone, and then won't even communicate with you when you offer to help and try to understand. There is no trust or communications or intimacy in your relationship - after 4 years!

What do your friends think? Or your family? What do you get out of this relationship? Have you thought about talking to a therapist yourself?

I hope you can do what is best for you and not spend more time trying to learn why he does not love you and respect you and trust you as you should be. You deserve to be happy.

[Acastina]

And a last comment: you might show him this thread, and ask if he would like to join the forum. There are all types of members here, from people who do this for fun occasionally, to people for whom it is a sexual preference (a fetish), to people who dress because they do not identify as male and everything else in between. He might want to talk to other CDers about his fear of letting you in. There is a private section for CDers that SO's cannot join.

There is also a private section for GGs (genetic girls, a.k.a birth females) that you might want to join too, for support. The details are here:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/faq.php?faq=pf#faq_gg_forum

That was my first second thought too, to guide him to this forum and let him read up on the phenomenon. My only hesitation with this particular advice is that he might feel exposed and self-conscious because it is about him specifically. Even though none of us knows where these folks are or what they look like, he may suddenly feel like the whole world knows about him and is watching in amusement or disdain.

Maybe gentler would just be for Tammy to tell him that she searched the Internet trying to understand him and found this site. Give him a link and give him some time? There are so many positive experiences chronicled here, and once he reads stories something like his from all different kinds of people, the most likely outcome is some kind of eventual epiphany of self-acceptance.

Soooo, lead the horse to water and see if he's thirsty. Good luck. He's lucky to have you, still trying hard to help him grow and know all of himself better.

[Tracii G]

I have to ask this Tammy is this boy your first love?
Why do you stay if he obviously doesn't respect you as a person?
Do you think you can't do any better? Use the excuse "but I love him" ?
Its a toxic abusive relationship you know this so why stay with this guy?
Maybe its time to look at yourself and the reasons you can't let him go.
I hate to be blunt like this but I am seeing a pattern of you not seeing the forest for the trees.

[SHINY-J]

Somehow, I just now noticed this thread... I initially considered just adding my 2 cents without reading through all of the posts, but I decided that I would and I'm glad I did. There's been a lot of good advice offered by everyone here that considers many different reasons, scenarios, solutions, outcomes, etc.

The simple fact is that there doesn't really seem to be a definitive solution here, seeing as how he's the only one who can really shed light on the best way to approach things and he's not talking.

Getting advice from others on here is great - not just because it's given you ideas on how to approach him about it, but it's also given you a ton of insight into the actual act of dressing and I think you've come to realize that you'd have to cast a very wide net to capture the many different ways that dressing plays a part on people's lives.

I'll start off by saying a couple of things that may come across as harsh or dismissive, and others have already touched on it, but I think it deserves to be repeated and considered.... You're both still very young. If I remember correctly, I believe you said that he's 24 and you're 21- you also stated that you've been together for 4 years... I'm certainly not trying to sabotage your relationship and I'm not trying to be cynical, so please don't think that I'm just claiming that it's doomed no matter what and you should just throw in the towel. Reading through this thread, I can honestly say that I feel like I have been in the same position both of you are in right now. In terms of how you feel on your end- I can tell you that I remember a girl I was in a serious relationship with where I always felt like I was actually fighting with a her so to STAY with her. It happens all the time with relationships everywhere, but when you stop and really think about it, it's actually a completely ludicrous concept. I know that when you're in the relationship and in that moment, it's VERY hard to see. If it doesn't work out, trust me... There will be a day when you look back and realize that you gave him way too much credit, way too much power, way too much energy, and way too much time. Hopefully, you can work it out, but if not, just don't waste anymore time than you have to. That's usually when it gets to the point that there's nothing left but regret and resentment and things just end badly all around.

Once again, please don't think that I'm being a pessimist... I'm all in favor of finding the right woman and making it last. I've dreamed of nothing else and I'll never stop trying to find it. It's just that I remember a relationship I was in that was very much like yours except that it was me trying to fight for her. My dressing wasn't even an issue as I was in a very long period where I somehow completely lost the desire to dress and she had no idea I had ever even done it before. I didn't stop out of shame, guilt, fear, etc. I just simply woke up one day and other things were more important. Still, I was the one trying to fight for her but she could care less... She was secretive, dismissive, insensitive, hateful, etc... Looking back, I'm so glad I didn't waste any more time or energy on her.

Now in terms of him, I really felt many connections with the way you described him. I'm described by friends and family as funny, sports junkie, guys guy, etc... However, I do CD. I keep it a very close secret and I'm very discreet. My situation is different as my dressing is really just a fetish. It's for my own sexual gratification. I don't have any doubts about my gender, sexuality, etc. Although I don't know anymore about him that what you've indicated, I think he may be like me where it's just a fetish. Of course, none of us know this for sure, but I think if it were anything else, you might have spotted some signs.

Like him, I remember the countless times when I've sneaked panties or lingerie from the women I've dated... I remember the way I would lock the door and check it countless times when I was wearing any femme clothes and how I would scramble to strip off the panties and stash them out of sight and throw on a t shirt and some sweatpants as quickly as I could when there was a knock on the door...trying not to arouse suspicion. I remember when I was around 11 or so, I had a few pairs of panties I had managed to scrounge up and I was so scared of my family finding them, that I eventually resorted to wrapping them up in some garbage bags and stashing them deep in the woods about a mile away from my house. Eventually, I grew to realize that was a little too far and I located a secure place in my room to hide them. Still, I remember how carefully i hid them and the unbelievably absurd lengths I would go to to hide my dressing from others. I would lock the door and check it multiple times... I would make sure that the curtains were pulled completely shut where nobody could see in... I would turn off the A/C or heater so that I would hear if their car pulled in the driveway earlier than usual. Some of these things seems completely ridiculous but I can still remember the unbelievable fear of being caught. For some, it may have been easier than others, but I cannot stress how ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING the idea if being discovered was to me. I can honestly say that if anyone had discovered my secret back then that I mostly likely would've taken my own life. It wasn't that my family were intolerant, evil people... Far from it... I wasn't mentally ill or abused... I was, however, a very self-conscious and very insecure kid and teenager. And like him, I also battled anxiety, stress, depression, etc. his may be because of his dressing, but IMO, it sounds like he's got some more things bugging him than just the dressing.

Like some have said and you already know, his denying his dressing even when faced with undeniable proof is completely ridiculous. However, I do think it shows how completely terrified he is about anyone discovering his "secret". That's also why it's a good thing that you didn't make any rash decisions about confronting him or avoiding him and the manner in which you would do it. In all honesty, you know him better than anyone. Many on here, including myself, would love to find a woman that's so supportive and understanding as you've been about this. That being said, it sounds like he pretty lousy at communication in general. You could go in with kid gloves or guns blazing and I still couldn't tell you how he'd respond to it. Flip a coin?

Also, as far as the dating app goes, you know if he's shown behavior that's associated with cheating. I personally think that if he were cheating, that he would've just posted pics of himself NOT dressed on there. I can tell you that the Internet is an amazing place of safe expression for a closet CD that is hellbent on keeping his secret, but also cannot fight the desire to be seen.

As I stated, my dressing is a fetish, - while I won't get into specifics as that's not the issue, I will say that for me , it's a combination of factors that excite me when it comes to dressing- shiny fabrics, platform boots and heels, kinky lingerie, massive breast forms, heavy makeup, etc. while I love all of those things, I also love that it's SO far removed from my regular, normal life. Knowing that, I can also say that it's also the fact that it's so taboo and "naughty" that drives my desire to dress. Obviously, I won't go out and interact with the public dressed like this, so posting pics online is a way that I express myself. Regardless of what anyone on here says, the first time you post pics of yourself dressed online, it is a thrilling rush. I know he hid his face - I do the same- Even if the vast majority of responses and attention that I get online are from men, and even if its completely anonymous, it's still an incredibly euphoric feeling to put yourself out there and be exposed. If I had to bet on whether it was actual cheating or just getting a thrill from having people see his pics online, I'd feel pretty confident it was the latter. Still, when you're dealing with the fact that it's a dating/hookup site and he's so completely dismissive about it, you have to address that because it's important to protect yourself no matter how confident you feel that he's been faithful to you.
As far as why he didn't make more of an effort to conceal the background in the pics and hide his personal effects and belongings out of sight, I'm guessing it can be chalked up to that being the first time he's done it and that this is a lesson he's now learned. I'm sure he was extremely excited and was getting an exciting rush from posting pics of himself online dresse in women's clothing. He rushed through in the excitement and simply forgot. Nothing more. From now on, he will take the extra steps and all pics will be done with no indications of anything that could be tied to him. It also tells me that he really didn't think that you would look for him doing that. If I were cheating and trying to hide it from my girlfriend, I would take any and all precautions I could to conceal my identity. Neither of which really says anything good about your relationship.

Which ties into the last thing I'll mention... He seems to have VERY little respect for you. I think that the word "respect" has lost part of its meaning with too many people in this world. It seems like whenever anyone mentions "respect" far too many people automatically get an image of a gangsta rapper "demanding respect" or a cast member from Mob Wives telling some skank to "respect" her... Yes, those are examples of respect, but it also ties in with both you and your relationship... And He seems to have very little "respect" for both. Regardless of how you feel about him, how long you've been together, your desire to "not give up", you worrying about what he's going through, etc... None of that changes the fact that he has been very cavalier with your feelings and the relationship. He doesn't appear at all afraid of losing you and he doesn't feel at all concerned about doing anything to patch things up. He's indifferent about your desire not just stabilize, but improve the relationship. To me, it seems like he's just hoping you'll lose interest but he also might be hanging on because he so scared that you're going to out him to the world. I wonder if there would be anything at all between you two if you hadn't discovered all of these things? ... I think forcing the conversation is necessary to get answers, but given how he's acted so far, I think he's more than likely content to end the relationship as opposed to coming clean about ANY of the things you've discovered.